web analytics

It Polls for Thee

By ATWadmin On November 10th, 2006

paisley3.gif

Like David, I too was fascinated by the findings of yesterday’s poll for the Hearts and Minds programme.  The survey of the DUP faithful certainly seems to suggest that the claims of 90+% endorsement are fibs of Trimble-esque proportions.  However, when I downloaded the full survey (Adobe Reader required), I found more interesting trends.  One in particular, I feel, needs to be highlighted.

Go the link and then scroll down to page 16.  You will see a tracking poll detailing Protestant and Catholic predictions for the health of the Union between now and 2020.  Between the signing of the Belfast Agreement and the final suspension of the Assembly in 2002, Catholic expectations of the Union’s longevity declined overall.  With Protestants there also appears to be confusion and uncertainty.  Now look at the difference the period of Direct Rule has made.  Catholic uncertainty plateaus and Protestant confidence rockets – culminating in a 82.3% positive response.

What does this tell us?  It tells us that, notwithstanding the propaganda of the pan-nationalist front and its journalistic minions such as the execrable Feeney, Protestant opinion did not equate Direct Rule with constitutional instability.  Quite the opposite.  I am also completely convinced that a continuation of Direct Rule would not have led to the apocalyptic scenarios touted by the governments, and more recently by Paisley as he turned from principled democrat to government collaborator in order to secure his 15 minutes of fame with IRA/Sinn Fein.

Paisley, had he maintained his sound convictions, should have rejected the SAA outright and defied Hain to do his worst.  Having made and succeeded in that challenge he could have gone to the majority electorate at the next political contest (probably a General Election) and wiped the floor with the Ulster Unionists.  Then, for the first time in years, the Unionist people would have been united under a single party against a nationalist cabal probably at serious odds on the best way forward.  Instead he has chosen the Faustian route; fractured his party in the process; and ensured that Unionism remains divided (because there are those of us out there who will never accept Sinn Fein ‘politicians’ other than at the end of a hanging rope) for another generation.

Fair deal, eh Doc?  It’s about as fair as Frank Bruno’s arse!!!

85 Responses to “It Polls for Thee”

  1. <em>Now look at the difference the period of Direct Rule has made. Catholic uncertainty plateaus and Protestant confidence rockets – culminating in a 82.3% positive response.</em>

    Irish nationalism has no realistic proposals for achieving its core objective,the ROI’s government is more than satisfied with the present status/quo, which gives them the appearance of being pro-unity without having to deal with the nasty social and economic consequences if it ever were to actually happen.

    Northern Ireland’s place within the Union can only be destroyed from within, ie by the action of pseudo-Unionists like Dr Paisley (in reality an Ulster nationalist) and those who refuse to accept that moving outside the sectraian straitjacket and encouraging diversity are not threats, but a golden opportunities for our movement….

    …which brings me to the Frank Bruno simile, was that really necessary?

  2. >>With Protestants there also appears to be confusion and uncertainty. Now look at the difference the period of Direct Rule has made. Catholic uncertainty plateaus and Protestant confidence rockets<<

    So, you’re saying is:

    Catholic uncertainty and Protestant confidence GOOD
    Protestant uncertainty and Catholic confidence BAD

    >>Having made and succeeded in that challenge he could have gone to the majority electorate at the next political contest and wiped the floor with the Ulster Unionists.<<

    Great. So instead of 10 ineffectual MPs they would have had 11 ineffectual MPs – truly a historic victory!

  3. Paul

    I was a line from an episode of Only Fools and Horses. If you have an issue, contact John Sullivan’s agent.

    Cunningham

    What I’m saying is ‘Direct Rule good, devolution bad.’

  4. Andrew

    Do you not think Paisley was given sight of what Direct Rule would mean if he rejected the deal?

    There are carrots and sticks in the process and Paisley no more than Trimble before him can afford the luxury of the fantasy which you enjoy.

  5. But Andrew,

    Your view that direct rule should continue falls down on the fact that most politicians in NI, nationalist and unionist are in FAVOUR of devolution. Unionist politicians from the very beginnings of NI’s history have argued for their own parliament, once it was clear home rule was on the way.

  6. ‘Do you not think Paisley was given sight of what Direct Rule would mean if he rejected the deal?’

    Nope! I believe Paisley was convinced that becoming FM would secure his place in history and, as old age sometimes lessens the analytical scope of the mind, has chosen to go along with that.

    Kloot

    Your key word is ‘politicians’. I believe many, many people are appalled by the spectre of murdering republican scum in government.

  7. Exactly, Kloot. Direct Rule may make Unionists feel more secure re the Union but it isn’t what the majority of people in NI want in terms of governance. Does that count for nothing?

    It is quite laughable how, on the constitutional question, it is vitally important what "the majority in NI" want but when the DUP don’t get their way it’s what"the majority of Unionists" want.

    I shouldn’t be surprised. It’s in the DUP’s nature to shift the goalposts to suit their narrow, sectarian agenda.

  8. "It’s about as fair as Frank Bruno’s arse!!!"

    Whats this – yet more Racism from the proffesional carer???

  9. >>Your key word is ‘politicians’. I believe many, many people are appalled by the spectre of murdering republican scum in government.<<

    I cant argue with you there Andrew. I think what your saying is that given the choice they would choose Direct Rule over going into government with Sinn Fein. But would you agree at the same time, that if given the option of devolution without Sinn Fein involvement, that this would most likely be the preferred choice over Direct Rule.

    Can anyone clarify for me, is a referendum to take place on the St Andrews agreement or not.

  10. Kloot

    Yes you are right. But devolution without republican terror is not on the cards. A referendum is highly unlikely.

    Reg

    Democracy without the taint of Provo terror counts for everything.

    D4

    Learn to spell.

  11. Jaysus, why do any of you even bother with this charade. Why not just be honest with yourselves and everyone else & just admit you don’t want to share power with Catholics, you don’t want to live in an equal society, you want to live in a pre-1966 era of Unionist supremacy forever and always. A few months ago every blog I visited on the North was proclaiming Paisley as the saviour of human civilisation. And even though he probably won’t keep his word and go through with his end of the agreement, the fact that it looked as though he might means that now Unionists are decrying him as a sell-out and a traitor. There’s just no pleasing any of you is there?

  12. I want to share power with anyone, Catholic or Protestant, who want to work for the good of NI WITHIN the Union, and who are appalled by the prospect of having terrorists in government.

    I prefer John Gorman to Billy Leonard. Get it?

  13. Grassynoel, I think that was the acknowledgement you were looking for!

  14. ‘I think that was the acknowledgement you were looking for.’

    I don’t!!

  15. Andrew

    So basically if your not pro union you shouldnt be part of the government of NI.

    Say 40% of the population were not pro union. It might be a little higher, it might be a little lower. Would you ban these people from the government of NI, or would it just be a refusal to share power with them ?

    Would this refusal transcend electoral success. For instance, if because of the fractured nature of the Unionist parties at the moment, the SDLP became the major party, would you expect the UK government to intervene at this stage and suspend the NI assembly.

    Im not trying to entrap you here, honestly, im merely seeing how far your opposition might go

  16. ‘Say 40% of the population were not pro union. It might be a little higher, it might be a little lower. Would you ban these people from the government of NI..’?

    You mean like the Labour Party effectively does in Scotland and Wales? Or like any other government in the world would do if it was offered the prospect of governing with people committed to destroying the State?

  17. >>Or like any other government in the world would do if it was offered the prospect of governing with people committed to destroying the State<<

    Interesting honest response. Would it matter if these people were in the majority or not. For instance, if a majority was in favour of ending the Union would you still be against them being in government.

    I presume by extension the same logic applies to Scottish and Welsh nationalists.

    Its good that views like this are out in the open. A lot more honesty from politicians/political parties on either side of the divide with regards to their actual end goals would go a long way to cutting through the crap.

  18. ‘Would it matter if these people were in the majority or not. For instance, if a majority was in favour of ending the Union would you still be against them being in government.’

    No, it would not matter. Some say the ethnic Russians will be a majority in Estonia over the next few generations. Estonia is not kept in existence by public will but by constitutional law, and there is no provision for it to be re-absorbed by Moscow.

    On a similar note, Manx-born people are now a minority on the Isle of Man. There is no danger of the island losing its legislative independence from the UK. Northern Ireland is part of the UK – period!

    And yes, my argument also applies to PC and the SNP.

  19. >>No, it would not matter. Some say the ethnic Russians will be a majority in Estonia over the next few generations. Estonia is not kept in existence by public will but by constitutional law, and there is no provision for it to be re-absorbed by Moscow.<<

    Interesting case there Andrew. Can a country cease to exist when the ethnic balance which maintains the nation, reverses. Thats a hard one to call. Youve set me thinking, which I shall do over lunch.

  20. Enjoy your lunch. Ham and Branston sandwiches are a favourite of mine at lunchtime.

  21. ‘Committed to destroying the state’ is a rather over-dramatic way to put it Andrew, natiionalists/repiblicans have never made any secret of the fact that they want no part to play in being a dominion of the UK govt. And they have now agreed to work towards their aim by purely legitimate means. Should the people of Quebec, or the people who voted in Australia to become a republic in their referendum a few years ago, be denied representation because of their wish to secede from the commonwealth? The British Government recognises that the NI situation is a rotten one and needs radical alteration and they have also recognised that the situation is not as black and white as it has in the past been presented, i.e. Unionists good/republicans bad. That’s what the whole peace process is about, so please stop misprepresenting the situation. Yourself and Vance are like a couple of kids who when somebody makes a point against their just buts their hands over their ears and just keeps shouting the same thing over and over and over again, as loud as you can.

    The facts are that the Unionists are no longer going to be allowed to dictate matters in the North, whether it be under direct rule, joint rule or devolution. The Brits have made it pretty clear that NI has been an awful, lot more trouble than it has been worth over the last 400 years and they want rid. Most if not all of my English friends could scarcely point out Belfast on a Map of NORTHERN Ireland, nevermind the Island of Ireland, or a map of the UK. Anytime they have asked me to try to explain the situation up there they just end up rolling their eyes and shaking their heads in a depressed manner.

    Your trouble is now that you want to keep the conflict alive and keep ratcheting up sectarian tensions in the North because you’re afraid of peace, afraid that people down South will lose their fear of crossing the border if society returns to some acceptable degree of normality and calm descends. That will lead to people migrating and perhaps living in and settling down in the North. That’s the REAL threat to the Union isn’t it? Keep the conflict going – that’s the key. Well why don’t you just relax and let history take its course. I’m sure this conflict will be raging long after we’re all dead and buried – thanks to the bigoted and sectarian nature of the NI state since its very foundation.

  22. ‘thanks to the bigoted and sectarian nature of the NI state since its very foundation.’ That last line puts your whole rancid opinion into context.

    Unionists haven’t dictated matters since 1972. And no Stormont government ever passed legislation enshrining discrimination (you know, like the PSNI recruitment quota does?). Demographics are not, and have never been, a threat to the Union. Allowing terrorists to contaminate politics has, and does.

    I will never accept a ‘united Ireland’, no matter what you or anybody else may think. Don’t waste your time trying to ‘enlighten’ me.

  23. Andrew it’s like this – either Her Majesty’s government has come to the conclusion over the last 2 decades (and in actual fact it’s more like 3) that matters in Northern Ireland need sorting out because there’s something wrong, or I’m just imagining it. Or maybe they decided ‘Those IRA blokes are decent chaps and we should try to make fiends with them’. Trying to describe the last line of my previous post as ‘rancid’ serves no purpose, or perhaps you’d rather try to convince ourself that everything was absolutely hunky-dory in the North before all those nasty riots started all of a sudden, for absolutely no reason whatsoever. Somehow I reckon most historians with the slightest bit of objectivity may disagree with such a blinkered view however.

    You may not care what I say or think, sure why would you, your reaction to anything I say is going to be pre-ordained anyway, as it always is with hardline unionists. In fact if every Republican on the Island were to give up the ghost tomorrow and say "f*ck it, I can’t be arsed with this shite anymore, let’s just hoist the Union Jack over the Falls alongside a picture of Queen Elizabeth in a display of our undying loyalty to the Crown from this day forward" ther’d probably still be howls of protests from Unionists and riots all over Belfast, becasue it would seem as if Catholics were getting their way.

    Like it or not Andrew M’Lad, that’s what it’s all about at this stage, and that’s how it’s seen by everyone on the outside, so don’t kid yourself otherwise. As for your views on a United Ireland, like I say I don’t need to wonder about them, but – newsflash! – the notion that everyone in the south is unanimously deeply committed to the cause of a UI is a somewhat fatuous and outdated one, as I’m sure you’ve heard & read before in various newspaper columns and blogs. The day of painting yourselves as a poor besieged community patriotically fighting for its survival has long gone, especially in this age of iPODS, playstation, X Factor, Ali G and Borat. The whole concept of Nation/Statehood is further watered down and diluted to irrelevance every day. World Affairs playing themselves out on the evening news are like a never ending episode of ‘Pimp-my-sense-of-national-identity’ on MTV. Everyone in Britainand the Republic has had just about enough of this a looooong time ago, but obviously not you.

    So no, I won’t waste my time trying to ‘enlighten’ you Andrew, you and the rest of the hardline unionists just keep on banging your heads against brick walls there and shouting about ‘terrorist scum’ and other such insults every time you get a whiff of a Fenian about the place. That’ll help make things nice.

  24. No Surrender!!! Got it!

  25. >> No Surrender!!! Got it!<<

    Andrew, it you shout that loud enough, you won’t hear your world falling apart.

  26. have a good weekend, one and all.

  27. Andrew,
    Just because you heard something from TV even if it’s Del Boy doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s not racist.

    Grassy Noel

    ‘Those IRA blokes are decent chaps and we should try to make fiends with them’.

    "Fiends"? That gotta be a freudian slip?!

    "the notion that everyone in the south is unanimously deeply committed to the cause of a UI is a somewhat fatuous and outdated one,"

    Yep, it’s from the same fairy-story book that tells us every Catholic in NI would vote for a UI and that every Unionist can’t be having a fenian about the place (which you seem to be implying).

    "The day of painting yourselves as a poor besieged community patriotically fighting for its survival has long gone, especially in this age of iPODS, playstation, X Factor, Ali G and Borat. "

    Bummer, so Unionmist are going to have to start developing real policies for the real world? Hurrah!

    What next, we’ve got to sell the Union on economic grounds? Double hurrah!!

  28. Mr McCann

    "No surrender"

    Bravely spoken – from Halifax!

    Tell me – exactly what sacrifice have you made to defend "my country" as you’re fond of saying (based apparently on your paternal grandfather)?

    If we reach a stage where a UI is on the cards – what exactly are you going to do about it?

  29. It’s plainly obvious that living in England (and not NI) has seriously affected Andrew’s understanding of the history of the place. Plenty of people from GB have a horrid level of knowledge about NI.

    The fact you’ve been to NI or had some relatives from there doesn’t change that. NI is miles and miles away from Yorkshire.

    If the SDLP was the only nationalist game in town, some would still find excuses to bitch and complain.

    Unionists have literally and figuratively gotten away with murder over the years…(as have the Provos and their idealogical partners…)

    No wonder NI Unionists get so uptight…they were incredibly lucky to get Northern Ireland in the first place…All of Ireland would have been granted Free State Status had De Valera accepted some of George’s conditions.

    Never truely Irish….Never truely British…that’s the fate of NI residents.

    Words on a piece of paper mean very little.

  30. "Words on a piece of paper mean very little."

    It could be said that your opinions mean very little, mate!!

  31. Mr McCann

    "It could be said that your opinions mean very little"

    The opinions of any person have exactly the same value (or lack of it) as yours.

  32. Moses,

    Sorry to burst your bubble but I AM an NI resident and I am 100% British. You might do better to go back up a mountain before making such daft pronouncements!

  33. The real A McCann is back. As the imposter sent messages under my name on Saturday, I was strolling around London.

  34. So what’s it like to be "sold down the river" by the octagenarian Orange supremacist and religious fundamentalist? A homophobic bigot who lead a "Save Ulster (sic) from sodomy" campaign, a sectarian bigot who refers to the pope as an anyi-christ, a fascist who would deny the people of occupied Ireland the right to engage in recreational pursuits such as swimming on Sundays.

    This is the man who even claims to be a Doctor because of some thesis he wrote for the infamous Bob Jones ‘university’. who denies those who attend the joint the right to date other ‘students’ who are not of the same colour.

    This guy is also responsible for the sectarian murders of many, if we are to believe his erstwhile followers and Unionist murderers, mar shampla,michael stone and david ervine. So the make belief doctor whose hands are drenched in the blood of Irish people is "sending ye down the river". Well it should come as no surprise given his opinion that the British Army surrendered to the IRA. Once Paisley made this comment, it was obvius that he realized that the only way forward is to the south. Too bad Andrew, now all ya have is Willie Mccrea and other hillbillies to support yer dying cause of keeping a poertion of Irlenad as the last bastion of the British empire. And I laughed!

  35. Plastic paddy from Bostonzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

  36. I see "madradin whatever" adapts the usual Unionist/Orange tactics when faced with the enemy, either "perceived" or in this case real enemy. Madradin resorts to a one line pejorative comment, that is oh so common within the bastardized Orange ‘culture’. With enemies like you man, is it any wonder we are on a Winner.

  37. I see that someone adopts bogotry and abuse. I wouldn’t like to tar all nationists with the same brush

  38. Aileen

    This Brian figure used to always post the same comments over and over again on the UTV website . He’s like a stuck record.

  39. Colm

    That figures. And nationalists all over the globe are cringing.

  40. Generous comment from you there Aileen as an ‘Orange supremacist’ towards the other community. If only the likes of Brian could recipricate.

  41. Tell ya what, if any of you can come up with a reasonble argument to counteract my (albeit harsh but true) allegations pertaining to Paisley, please feel free.

    Otherwise you are merely patronizing each other.

    Meanhwhile, "nationalists cringing all over the globe", ‘aileen’? Apart from a few shinners who are close to accepting SS/RUC, I doubt that too many peole would disagree with the central tenet of my argument.

  42. Colm

    nothing to do with generosity. It’s just kinda obvious.

    I have no idea why he thinks that I would have the least interest in discussing Pasiley or anything else with him.

    As for
    " I doubt that too many peole would disagree with the central tenet of my argument"

    I think that many nationalists are cringing at "that is oh so common within the bastardized Orange ‘culture’"

  43. Ah! Yet another age old Orange tactic. Don’t talk to the republican, but get yer spoke in by addressing the post to ‘colm’, whilst trying to grapple with my thoughts. I dunno who colm is, but I am sure he doesn’t mind being used to piggyback yer orange retort to me.

  44. *yawn*

    "yet another age old Orange tactic"

    more bigotry

    I don’t need Colm to get my spoke in I can and do just post them.

    "grapple with my thoughts"
    nothing substantial enough to grapple with,

  45. Brian

    It’s not so much that I would argue with your list as I know the other side have their list too and the constant reassertion of core positions is getting us nowhere.

    A leader is more than someone who can recite our woes for us and if Ian Paisley and Gerry Adams can shake hands on a deal then I will take my hat of to both of them.

  46. Is Paisley 80?

    Is the Orange a supremacist group, given that they exclude women and anybody associated Irish Catholicism, by marraige or birth?

    Did he front A Save Ulster (sic) from sodomy" homophobic campaign?

    Has he referred to the Pope as a heretic and anti-christ?

    Has he a history of advocating that all recreational pursuits sponsored by local councils etc (swimming pools, cinemas, sports) be banned on Sundays in accordance with his fundamentalist religious beliefs? And that this ‘rule’ would be imposed on all, irrespective of their religious views or lack thereof?

    Was the title "doctor" bestowed on him by a fundamentalist and apartheid institution? Incidentally, do ya think a MD or someone who worked hard to earn a Ph D in Queens, Yale, UCC or other accredited universities are merely equals of Paisley when it comes to academic qualifications?

    Did Grave Yard Butcher Michael Stone and Ervine and other Unionist terrorists claim that they were insighted to engage in sectarian murders by Paisley?

    Finally is Paisley on record as acknowledging that the British occupiers "surrendered to the IRA"?

    I guess yer right..there is nothing to grapple with.

    All of the above questions can be answered in the affirmative.

    So there ya go – that’s Paisley for ya. A former favourite of little englanders, a religious zealot (analagous to Bin Laden) and his final role will be to sell orangies down the river.

  47. Are they your "thoughts"? Did you really think I’d waste my time grappling with them?

    You seem to have a Pailey fixation. I’m sure he’s be pleased.

  48. Naw! Their not my thoughts honey. Them’s the facts.

  49. Brian,

    I would recommend you review your ability to spell before trying to articulate your tangled thoughts.

  50. Make your mind up

    BB
    "whilst trying to grapple with my thoughts"

    Me
    "nothing substantial enough to grapple with"

    BB

    blah blah

    guess yer right..there is nothing to grapple with"

    Me

    "Are they your "thoughts"? "

    BB
    "Naw! Their not my thoughts honey"

    So your thoughts are not your thoughts.Right. So what colour is the sky in your world?

    It’s strange how many people are prepared to trust the word of Stone and Ervine. Of course fine upstanding guys like them wouldn’t lie.

  51. David

    We still haven’t established what are his thoughts. It appears that what were his thoughts aren’t anymore.

  52. Wasn’t "Bejayzuz from Bawzton" banned from the old site ? Do let him stay David – It’s refreshing to see the true face of Irish Republicanism rather than the very thin veneer of respectability that Sinn Féin TRY to present to the world 😉

  53. MR, As we were talking about on the other thread, you can see why here in the States I don’t see much difference between nationalism and violent republicanism. The nuances are lost.

  54. Mad

    Did he have "thoughts" to be grappled with there too? Oe maybe its just the voices……

    Charles to be fair I wouldn’t judge nationalists in NI by this guy.

    Are the ones in America like him, in your experience?

  55. <Q>It’s strange how many people are prepared to trust the word of Stone and Ervine. Of course fine upstanding guys like them wouldn’t lie.</Q>

    He has to accord them the same respect as their equivalent republican heroes like Pearse, Sean South, Dirty Dom McGlinchey and the various hunger strikers….

    Brian – remember to wipe and wash your hands after you have a thought 😉

  56. Charles – When I speak of Plastic Paddies it’s balloons like Brian I’m talking about – not the many, many fine people like Mahons and your good self in the USA who are of Irish descent.

  57. "He has to accord them the same respect as their equivalent republican heroes like Pearse, Sean South, Dirty Dom McGlinchey and the various hunger strikers…"

    Yep Mad. they’re all the one sow’s pigs.!!

  58. You had better explain that to him Aileen – be nice to him – It’s not his fault he has sh1t for brains – it’s genetic 😉

  59. Believe it or not one’s opinion ("thoughts") on a subject can also be factual. But you can play semantical games til it’s time to get up and milk yer cows. I listed the facts. Nobody has refuted any of them because ya can disagree with facts but not refute them. I listed several pertaining to Paisley and the responses were typically unionist.

    Vance, mar shampla, ignores the content and advises me to "review my spelling", well Davie, I am interested in the substance and couldn’t be bothered to run to the spell checker. If you have problems understanding anything I said, let me know and I might even spell it correctly next time.

    As for ‘madarin’s post? Silly name calling is obviously your forte, your post deserves no further merit other than stating that I think Oglaigh na hEireann should have pursued the military option for another decade.

    Meanwhile, Aileen I don’t "have a Pailey fixation", Unionism does, that’s why he is the leader of Unionism.

    And finally to the guy from Texas – a state that executes more prisoners per capita than China – take George Bush back. He’s responsible for more deaths and deceit than any other president since WWII. And all for oil?

  60. "Believe it or not one’s opinion ("thoughts") on a subject can also be factual"

    Yes but, beleve it or not, they can’t be simultaneously your thoughts and not your thoughts.

    "Nobody has refuted any of them because" …. we have no interest in debating with you.

    "Aileen I don’t "have a Pailey fixation", Unionism does, that’s why he is the leader of Unionism."

    Do you have a fixation with the people you vote for? On second thoughts don’t bother answering, you probably do.

  61. Missed the bit where he makes clear that he is a terrorist supporter. That explains why he put so much credence in the words of Stone and Ervine.

  62. "You will see a tracking poll detailing Protestant and Catholic predictions for the health of the Union between now and 2020."

    No you won’t. You will see a tracking poll detailing unionist and nationalist predictions. No mention at all about religion, just that 43.8% of the sample was Catholic and 56.2% were Protestant.

    Direct rule suits everyone, except the people of Northern Ireland.

  63. Garfield

    "No you won’t. You will see a tracking poll detailing unionist and nationalist predictions. No mention at all about religion, just that 43.8% of the sample was Catholic and 56.2% were Protestant."

    Fair point but that isn’t correct either as they have categorised people as "unionist" or "nationlist" based on their answers to what party best suits them a better proxy indicator than religion but still not that great.

  64. MR, I know my friend. I always take you with a grain of salt!

    Aileen, The thing has always been the "kick the Brits outa Ireland". Alot has changed since Omagh and 9/11 however.
    This is only from a small number of Irish Americans that could find Ireland on a map.

    But mostly it’s about our family history. Euros don’t understand what it’s like to live in a place with no history. Dallas wasn’t even here 150years ago. The most most families have from the old country is a linen handkerchief or a picture or book. That’s why we all by Irish sweaters that are too hot to wear anywhere but the artic!

  65. "Euros don’t understand what it’s like to live in a place with no history. Dallas wasn’t even here 150years ago."

    As they say, to Americans 200 years is a long time. To Europeans, 200 miles is a long way 🙂

  66. Wait a sec…I was getting all warm and fuzzy. Brian from boston, My name’s Charles. You’re just acting a fool, man.

  67. charles

    I don’t think that it’s an act ;o)

    Just out of interest, did you ever fall for the Shinner message?

  68. <Q>Direct rule suits everyone, except the people of Northern Ireland.</Q>

    I’d rather have direct rule than have terrorists in Government.

  69. That may well be Madradin,
    doesn’t change the reality that direct rule suits everyone except the people of Northern Ireland.

    Talk to you about this again in 20 years.

  70. And me, MR!

  71. Aileen, The Shinner message? Not really. Now as a Catholic, I don’t much care for Paisley, and I don’t like the marches. Then again people have the right to use public roads.

    My mother was born Protestant, and my Dad RC, and being from largely Prod Tx I learn to see both sides.

    And another thing. There seems to be no love lost between the USA and ROI.

  72. "And another thing. There seems to be no love lost between the USA and ROI"

    You don’t know Ireland very well then Charles. Sure there elements of the media and certain sections of the electorate like any other country in Europe.
    But the establishment parties the overwhelming majority of the population are very pro the United States

  73. I suppose the best example of the esteem Ireland holds the United States would be post 9/11.

    Only two countries had a national day of mourning for the victims, Ireland and Israel.

  74. Charles

    Actually Charles, that was rather an insulting question sorry.

    Re the ROI and USA. To you mean that they don’t like you or is it mutual? I always thought that the US loved the ROI.

    Have you ever been to Ireland, North or south?

  75. Whether ye like it or not, I had y’all either tossin’ verbal shit or advising to ignore and then commenting on some post or other on the thread.

    You know, it’s interesting to travel thru’ the web and stop off at blogs to check them out. This one I came across and recognized the moderator’s name. He is a virulently anti-Irish little englander.

    According to himself, he went over to some Orange Parade of Hate and got the shit kicked out of him. On his return to jolly old england, he swore off Orangeism on a UTV post. But alas, after a brief sojourn (perhaps in hospital) he was back and as dumb as ever.

    But anyway I’m just travelling thru cyberspace. I am most closely associated with INLA/irp policy, see know reason in talking to orangies, am anti-GFA and I rest assured knowing that there’s plenty of dacent weaponary available to those begining to question mainstream republicanism.

    If Paisley croaked tonight or if a leading republican was executed by one of the Brit sponsored Unionist terrorist gangs, all bets would be off.

    Call me what ya want but be advised that a dedicated, sleek and impenetrable republican force may be in the offing. The provies were too big and got cocky, hence Scap, Ingram, O’Callaghan, cGartland, doanldson and the inability to destroy or at least hit real hard UDA, SS/RUC British squaddies etc.

    No more than 200 active and well trained/armed/smart and fit volunteers would be needed, assuming the leadership consisted of older veterans. If we don’t get our country back thru this process, then fuck SF’s electoral ambitions. We always have our core base and that’s all that’s needed to prosecute an effective war in both occupied Ireland and Britain.

    So that’s the prospect, not a threat. We may never forget the fenians but we’ve come along way since then. The theatre of operations has been in both the ‘battlefield’ and legislatures in the past. It can only be effective in one or the other. See ya Danny Morrison!

    I acknowedge the views of 32 CSM and RSF, I am uninterested in meek nationalists within FF back benches or Indpendent TDs.

    The above tirade was to clear up any doubts about the differences between opinions and facts. The aforementioned are opinions, based on various degrees of intimate knowledge.

    But one thing I know for sure – a cursory glance at an Irish history book will show that when Unionist obstinacy and perfidious albion stymie political progres, out come the guns.

    Who knows Charlie, ‘shock and awe’ is not a uniquely Rumsfield and President Cheney tactic.

    Finally.someone posted about 9/11.I have sad memories of that day. But every country has had their 9/11 in fact they reckon that 150,000 people have been slaughtered in Iraq, thanks to Bush’s use of 9/11 to concoct bullshit and plunge Iraq into massive killing field.

    We got our own shit in Ireland, don’t we Davie.

  76. Keep taking the tablets Brian 🙂

  77. No tabs or heavy drugs pour moi, Madre rua. Just a nice blunt, packed with Superskunk at the end of the day….man do I look forward to that. s.But tabs or Ballymena Orange (heroin) or anything else like that I leave to loser and unfortunate addicts.

  78. Garfield pines at the texan’s observation that their’s no love lost between 26 cos and US is accurate. Who would want to have antything to do with a regime who interns alleged Jihadists in their imperialist base in Cuba; send others overseas so that the Feds can torture them meanwhile almost three thousand US soldiers are dead. 150+ Iraqi civilians and no sign of change in President Cheyney’s strategy. So no Charlie, that is why Bush is
    onfronted by thousands who despise what he did, everywhere he goes, as is curretly the case in Indonesia.

    But when Clinton was president, the two contries had great relationships. In fact nationalist leader gerry adams chatted with the Clintons until 4 AM on night, in the prez’s suite. Pelosi has potential…but who in the name of fuck would want to support a country who ignores the geneva onvention and is led by a bunch of Born again, rich and selfish mass murderers who currently run the White Hse and Pentagon.

  79. If you hate the USA so much and are so keen on Ireland, How come you haven’t graced us with your presence ?
    Don’t you owe it to yourself and even more importantly, Owe it to Ireland ? Ireland needs intelligent and brave men …

  80. Madra Rua – USA I love it My beautiful daughter is an american citizen,as is my girl. My friends and colleagues are all American. I love my job here.
    Naw man, yuo don’t even know what most (all mine) the posts are about. I espise Zionism. I never had a bad Jewish friend/colleagues. I love England many’s the night I spent in the Emporium (?) night club In Leicester. This is only about people involved in conflict. Try to get that UDA/Al Q’aida thinking out of yer dopey head. Thank christ unionism have no politicians who can see the big picture. But the real enemy are the Brits. Unionism will do as the Brits tell them..they got no choice.

    Anyway I’m off to bed. why don’t you try out an S&M site,you seem the submissive.

  81. Can you try again tomorrow after the superskunk has quit your system ?

  82. "Whether ye like it or not, I had y’all either tossin’ verbal shit or advising to ignore and then commenting on some post or other on the thread. "

    Whether he likes it or not we never thought him worthy of grappling with his thoughts (not thoughts). Apart from being a terrorist lover, (He doesn’t seem to be too choosey about his terrorists either, beleiving Stone and Ervine) he can’t even be consistant within a few minutes about whether what rattles through his, well lets call it a brain, are thoughts or not and he seems to think (that voting for someone means having a fixation for them.

    Even if I was inclined to debate with him or "grapple" with his "thoughts", I doubt if I could dumb down that far.

  83. Not sure that the drug-addled thoughts of a twice removed Provo apologist count for anything, other as a warning to others to the perils of drugs.

  84. Aileen, No Offense taken!

    My musings about the ROI vis a vis the USA were really tinged by the ROI’s reaction to our war on terror. B in B’s reaction would reinforce what I thought if I didn’t know such fine people from this sight, like Garfield and Cunningham ect!

    I’m glad Texas is so far from Boston, as I’m sure they are too.

  85. David – he’s worth having about the place for entertainment and education 🙂