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Timeline…….Irish Abortion Law Doomed

By ATWadmin On December 9th, 2009

Whenever anyone, from whichever side of the European Argument, whether sceptic or ‘gullible’, hears the magic words “Europe cannot alter a Member nation’s laws”, the battle lines are drawn in the sands of time. Trouble is, whether sceptical or not, no-one watches the tide is on the turn, and those lines will be wiped away by the irresistible force inbuilt to a European decision by the architects of that same Europe. The attacks on the Nation State may be stealthy, may take a long time to come to fruition, but the ONLY way to forestall a European take-over, whether you are Maltese, Latvian, French or British is to simply leave. 

Since just about all the members of the political class benefit hugely from European largesse, which is of course code-word for our tax money, you won’t hear any politico, from the rightest wing of the Tory party through to the Leftiest members of the old-time Labour party speaking out in favour of leaving. The British National Party espouses leaving, but they have placed themselves beyond the pale by bring race into their Constitution and proceedings, so they are virtually irrelevant. U.K.I.P. are a one-policy Party, and apart from distracting some from voting Tory, are another irrelevance. So until we see a sea-change in British politics, we are doomed to an ever-encroaching European State as it remorselessly chews away at our ancient liberties.

Example.

In the Irish Republic, abortion has always been an abomination. Why? Simples! The Roman Catholic Church has pronounced that women do not have control over their normal bodily functions by making abortion a grave sin. As the Church had historically held such huge sway over most political decisions in the Republic, their dictat was taken as law, and so abortion was either of the back-street variety, or the decision was taken by the pregnant woman to travel to where her needs were considered above those of a priest-ridden bureaucracy!

If you don’t believe me when I write about the opposition of the Roman Catholic Church vis-a-vis abortion, you only have to read this, for a definitive proof of their attitude!

When the Irish Republic wanted to join the European Union, the decision was taken on economic and political grounds; the question of religious or moral principles was never even mentioned. Through the Union, Ireland thrived, with G.D.P. statistics which proved that the Union worked, and everyone won! The Celtic Tiger roared, and many looked on a little enviously! The fact that the Celtic Tiger has these days caught a really bad dose of financial pneumonia is perhaps not so easily swallowed, but the Brussels bureaucrats just shrug, and murmur that the same rules apply to all.

However, the European Constitution (sorry the Lisbon Treaty) was promised as a tidying up of all the other Treaties, and no-one should worry (space should be taken here while the Irish head was figuratively patted in re-assurance). Second time around, the Question was asked, and in the end, the Irish fell for the European Blarney, and voted YES!

Unfortunately, alongside the Treaty comes The Fundamental Charter on Human Rights, and when the European Court of Human Rights get their teeth into this case from three Irish women, who would bet against the Republic being told, politely but firmly, that their laws, their wishes, their beliefs are subservient to the Law of Europe, which is above the laws of the Republic?

As for myself, I have never understood the call for freely-available abortion, as it is a fact that once the child is born, the mother can simply sign it away into adoption, so why the furore in the first place? But there again, that is but one person’s opinion, and a lowly man into the bargain!

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25 Responses to “Timeline…….Irish Abortion Law Doomed”

  1. Mike

    The decision to ban abortion in Ireland was taken by the people in a referendum. It is also banned in the north which nobody has ever accused of being a Catholic state. The people of Ireland have a view on the issue which is at odds with rest of Europe. The question is are we entitled to that view. If not then it will help clarify the new political realities in the EU.

  2. >>As for myself, I have never understood the call for freely-available abortion,<<

    What? You never understood women wanting "to have control over their normal bodily functions"?

    Or do you call it that only when the Catholic clergy is against it?

  3. It is true that after Flaminio Costa v. ENEL (1964) that Community Law was giving primacy over the individual law of the member states but it is another thing entirely to suggest that the EU can overide the Constitution of individual member states. The EU’s power of enforcement in the UK, for example, is the Human Rights Act and even through that the Courts can’t invalidate a Act of Parliament, as doing so would go against the Constitution. Similarly in Ireland the right to life for the Unborn Child is part of the Constitution and can only be removed with a Constitutional Amendment, regardless of what the ECHR says.

  4. Surely the crux of the issue is what value we place on human life.
    If having a baby is a "lifestyle choice", then let’s amend all current legislation regarding abortion.
    If on the other hand, the creation of a new life is both a gift and a responsibiltiy, then let our legislation reflect that thinking.
    Crudely put, a man with no moral constraints will take any opportunity to "get his leg over", and leave the female to deal with the potential consequences.

    But it isn’t just the female who has to deal with it.
    It is her parents, extended family, the community, the tax payer, and ultimately the child themselves.
    The EUSSR is run by a bunch of (mostly) men and women who make decisions on behalf of millions.
    The difference is that they protect themselves from the consequences of their edicts..

  5. Mike Cunningham –

    … who would bet against the Republic being told, politely but firmly, that their laws, their wishes, their beliefs are subservient to the Law of Europe, which is above the laws of the Republic?

    But that is the case. De facto, European law is superior to that of the its subject province out in the Atlantic.

  6. Pete,

    As Seamus points out, the supremacy of Community law is nothing new (and also applies to the UK).

  7. Reg –

    Seamus stated "but it is another thing entirely to suggest that the EU can overide the Constitution of individual member states" and that " in Ireland the right to life for the Unborn Child is part of the Constitution and can only be removed with a Constitutional Amendment".

    What constitution? Ireland doesn’t have one. It’s gone.

    Yes, there’s a piece of paper with "constitution" at the top, but that’s no constitution when it’s subservient to foreign law. The EU can now swat aside whatever’s in it.

  8. Pete, the Constitution isn’t subservient to Community law. No Constitution is. Ordinary law in area that the EU have competancies is subservient to Community law. The EU doesn’t have competancy over Criminal Justice (of which Abortion is part of). In order to change the law concerning Abortion in the Republic is by the way of a Constitutional Amendment.

    Pete, does California have a Constitution?

  9. All states have a Constitution, but those State laws can be overridden by Federal law.

  10. Exactly, Troll (or Monica, which ever one. The sentence had structure so it was probably Monica). All member States of the EU have Constitutions but their laws can be overridden by the EU Government in the areas where the EU have competancies in (like the current relationship between the States and the Federal Government. Just because EU law can overide the individual law of the States doesn’t mean that those States don’t have Constitutions.

    And in the EU, EU law can’t override the Constitution of individual member states. If the ECHR votes in favour of this then Ireland will probably have to leave the EU or the ECHR will have to back down. No Government will support the indroduction of Abortion in Ireland. It isn’t wanted and Ireland won’t be bullied on that issue. The people voted against Lisbon because it held no guarantees that Ireland’s position Abortion will be respected.

  11. Seamus –

    California is a sovereign State.

  12. And Ireland isn’t?

  13. No.

    In case you hadn’t noticed, the Irish voted to replace their constitution with the supremacy of a foreign soviet.

  14. No, they didn’t. The Bunreacht is still in place and all EU business is done through the Bunreacht. Without the Constitution the EU would have no power to act in Ireland. It is only through the Constitution that it can act. It still applies, and similarly, like the UK, the people of Ireland can vote to remove the EU by Constitution Amendment (Hell in the UK all it would take is an Act of Parliament).

  15. Seamus –

    The supremacy of EU law over national law is well attested. The continued existence of an Irish constitution is a fig leaf to cover the fact it now has no force in law where it conflicts with EU law. It’s an old EU trick; leave the national facade but co-opt the building.

    If you want an example, look at your passport and driving licence. These are EU documents masquerading as national writs.

    We do not require even an Act of Parliament to reassert our liberties and the supremacy of the British Constitution since our membership of the EU is unlawful and illegitimate. All we require is for our laws to be obeyed and the European Communities Act to be struck down.

  16. The supremacy of EU law in areas that the EU has competancies. The EU has no control over matters of Criminal Justice. It also has no control over Constitutional matters. Abortion, in Ireland, is a Criminal and Constitutional matter. The EU has no say.

    Also, Pete, in the UK, definately in England, (I’ll even use nice constitutional language) the Queen-in-Parliament is Soverign. If Parliament passes an Act and the Queen gives it her assent then it is law untouchable by no one. The Courts (in England at least) have no power to strike down an Act of Parliament.

    And Pete, while my Passport does say the European Union on it, it also, more importantly and in bigger writing, says Éire/Ireland on it. I don’t apply to the EU for a Passport. I don’t know what you are on about in terms of Drivers License. It says nothing about the EU on it.

  17. 3 Irish women? Two Irish women and one Lithuanian resident in Ireland….. Looks like certain ‘human rights’ can kill children.

  18. Where’s Frank ?. He must be ill otherwise he’d have been on this thread quick as a flash.

    Nice to see Danny Boy make an appearance though after his dramatic ‘retirement’ yesterday .

  19. Seamus –

    The Queen is not sovereign. She effectively abdicated in 1972 when she assented to the supremacy of EU law.

    Think of it this way: like pregnancy, sovereignty is indivisible. Either one is sovereign or not. The Queen committed treason against the British people, our Constitution and the Coronation Oath when she conciously obliterated the sovereignty she embodied.

    She is the worst monarch in our history.

  20. Ah but Pete if the Queen is Sovereign and her sovereignty is the supreme embodiment of the UK , then surely she is entitled to do with it as she pleases, posession being 9/10ths of the law and all that 😉

  21. Colm,

    "Where’s Frank ?. He must be ill otherwise he’d have been on this thread quick as a flash"

    🙂 Never fear I am here!

    But there are just too many things to comment on in this thread.

    Anyway needless to say I wish the women every success in making Ireland obey the law and respect their human rights, both things that even ‘sovereign states’ must do. I will try to leave it at that 🙂

  22. What law is Ireland not obeying Frank? How are their Human Rights not respected?

  23. Seamus – IMO it is not even obeying its own law, nor the EHCR either. But this is for courts to determine.

    It would seem the Irish SC agrees with me on the first point, however. And by insisting on various special riders to pretty much every European treaty, it would seem that even the ‘pro-life’ agree with me on the second.

  24. The Irish Constitution is clear. The life of the Unborn is to be protected in all cases except where the life of the mother is in jeopardy. So I don’t know how it is breaking the law. The ECHR mentions nothing on Abortion. How are their Human Rights not respected? Abortion isn’t a Human Right.

  25. Seamus,

    You’re correct re the Constitution. The amendment to Article 29 was to ensure the laws in the areas for which Ireland (and the other EU Member States) has given the EU competency aren’t all individually subject to potential referenda.

    "If the ECHR votes in favour of this then Ireland will probably have to leave the EU or the ECHR will have to back down."

    Why? The ECHR is not an EU body. Anyway, as Frank says, it is possible that Ireland is not abiding by its own Constitution as I understand that the ladies are arguing that their lives were in danger.