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THE VIRGINIA SHOOTER – AND ISLAM.

By ATWadmin On April 17th, 2007

killer_cho_suenghui.jpgI see that the man who murdered all those students at Virginia Tech, Cho Seung-hui, died with the words "Ismail Ax" in red ink on one of his arms. He also left a note signed "Ismail Ax"

So, what does this mean? Check out this from Islamic City….

"He said to the statues, joking; then with his ax he destroyed all the statues except one, … Ibrahim and Ismail kept on calling people to worship Allah"

I’m awaiting the UK MSM to comment on this other than to observe that it was "disturbing". 

64 Responses to “THE VIRGINIA SHOOTER – AND ISLAM.”

  1. A rather pathetic attempt to link this murderer to your favourite scapegoat.

  2. Cunningham,

    Can you offer us your explanation then as to why he used these words?

  3. He was a clearly disturbed individual with his own terrible demons. Trying to hint at islamofascist reasoning behind this murder is just as speculative as blaming anti-Korean racism, or lack of sexual success, or any of a hundred reasons, the true one (if there was only one) we may never know.

  4. I don’t think his religion was the main motivation, since it would make it pretty hard to explain why there’s almost a billion Muslims who haven’t killed anybody.

  5. Colm – Hi and Good Night!

  6. David – the guy was apparently a lunatic, whether or not he had any ties to Islam seem immaterial at the moment. At least one of the victims appears to have an Islamic name and I certainly wouldn’t hold Christianity responsible if the killer turned out to be Christian.
    In fact, I would point out that the victims seem to be a successful group of diverse people from diverse backgrounds.

  7. Colm,

    I am just pointing out the use of the words that he chose to write on his note and on his arms. This is a matter of fact, not opinion. As to WHY he borrowed such words, that is indeed a matter of opinion. I doubt they were random….

  8. Theres plenty of speculation on the web as to the meaning of the words. Some asking if its a gaming moniker, some linking it to your bit above David and again others linking it to Moby Dick as well.

    Time will tell…

  9. Kloot,

    Very true. In a way it doesn’t matter since it can’t bring the dead back. And I guess those families plunged into grief don’t care at the moment.

  10. >>And I guess those families plunged into grief don’t care at the moment.<<

    Indeed. So very tragic.

  11. I agree with Mahons.

    But you must admit, just about everybody yesterday was in a state of suspense waiting to hear if the killer was a Muslim on a terrorist rampage. Except for Cunningham.

  12. David – It’s entirely possible that he left that to increase the impact of his rampage.

  13. It’s also possible that those words might not have been written (or if so not the words claimed) on his body. It could be just one of the many rumours that often circulate with stories like this.

  14. Guys.

    Yes, that’s all possible – time will tell but if he had been found with "I love George W Bush" written on his body, do you think circumspection would have been the same?

  15. I love George W Bush" written on his body, do you think circumspection would have been the same?

    The point is though David, if it turns out that they guy was receiving training in the middle east for such an attack, then that would be one thing.

    If however, it turns out that this guy was just a crazed lunatic with mental problems then whatever text may have been written on his arm is irrelevant.

    There have been numerous cases of crazed lunatics murdering people while claiming to hear voices from god in their heads, this doesn’t reflect back on God or his religion, as the person was not of fit mental state.

  16. David

    You would have been circumspect about it just as the Right in general would and obvioulsy the left would have crowed , just as I am sure you wouldn’t have been so quick to publicise a suggestion that he had pro-Israeli tatoos. We can all be guilty of inflating our prejudices when the opportunity arises.

  17. David: I take your point but if gallows humor may be forgiven I doubt that outside of his own family, any one who in fact "loves George W. Bush" would be able to write a full sentence.

    In any event, I think Colm may have touched on the potential for rumor in these type of situations and we’ve got a bit more to find out.

    Mad’s point is quite plausible.

    Daphne – I am glad we agree on some of the above but I never even thought it was a terrorist. It hadn’t occurred to me. We’ve lost so many more people here due to handguns and crazed mass murders of domestic vintage that I thought it was "just" another tragedy. I don’t know where you folks were, but I was in a crowd watching on television and trying to wish away the news as it got worse and worse.

  18. Mad’s point is quite plausible.

    That’s a Keeper!

  19. Mad: Even a broken clock is right twice a day. No seriously, a very good point.

  20. There is a great line in The Streest of Laredo, a Johnnny Cash song (among others) that says of another shooter "Don’t mention his name and his name will pass on." I think I’ll try this with this killer, whatever his motives.

  21. Here’s a link to two plays written by the killer.

    http://newsbloggers.aol.com/2007/04/17/cho-seung-huis-plays/

  22. Mahons,

    We could do a lot worse than listen to Johnny Cash.

  23. http://news.aol.com/virginia-tech-shootings/cho-seung-hui/_a/mr-brownstone-page-6/20070417142609990001

  24. True David – I’ve got to head out this evening, good series of posts (provocative, timely and thoughtful).

  25. mahons, my 6-year-old’s favourite song!
    (God knows how he’s going to turn out!)

    On a serious note, I think this must be all the more difficult for relatives and friends of the victims to bear precisely because the murderer killed himself. In some way it makes their terrible loss even more pointless, the event all the more arbitrary.
    If the killer had survived, they could at least have seen him in court, looked him in the face, heard his reasons for the crime.
    By killing himself he has denied them this satisfaction, and by ending his worthless life with the same gun he has somehow almost made their deaths as meaningless as his own.

  26. Just as well he did’nt have ‘BNP’ tattooed on his arm or Cunningham would be screaming "told you so, told you so!!"

  27. When is a mass murderer a crazed lunatic? When are they not?

    That’s not a snipe at anybody, I just thought it might make for interesting discussion. Are terrorists who blow themselves up in busy markets ‘crazed lunatics’? What about Harold Shipman? Sniper-killers?

  28. I doubt very much he was a Muslim, probably he just latched on to Islamic extremism to give his life some meaning, its probably an easy thing to be influenced by in todays climate if your a nut-job. I’ve read he was studying Indonesian and chose the name because of that?

    Also I found this on Wikipedia: "The name has come to symbolize orphans, exiles, and social outcasts—in the opening paragraph of Moby-Dick, Ishmael tells the reader that he has turned to the sea out of a feeling of alienation from human society."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moby-Dick#Ishmael

  29. There is also mention that writing a person’s name in red in Korean Culture means they are dead.

  30. <Q>Mad: Even a broken clock is right twice a day.</Q>

    Unless it is a 24 hour clock 😉

  31. LOL,

    How can you hypocritical Lefties take DV to task for suggesting this connection may have a bearing on Islam after all the times you’ve screamed ‘Timothy McVeigh was a Christian so Christians are just as bad as Muslims’ at us?!? How come McVeigh (who naturally must be a Christian because he’s white, obviously) is representative but this nutball couldnt possibly be?

  32. Do we know he was a Muslim or came from a Muslim background DSD? South Korea isn’t noted for having a large number of Muslims.

  33. "Do we know he was a Muslim or came from a Muslim background DSD?"

    Well I think he was studying in Indonesia (?) or was learning Indonesian (?) and it is an Islamic country.

    "South Korea isn’t noted for having a large number of Muslims."

    Apparently South Korea has more Presbyterians than Scotland!?

  34. Cunningham: If they ever bring out the Alan Sherman records on DVD, please play the Streets of Miami for your son. Sherman did wonderful parodys, substituting his ethnic humor for the origianl lyrics.

  35. Make that CD not DVD.

  36. today hundreds of innocent iraqis are killed yet the silence from Mr Vance is deafening. But they werent white or christian or american i suppose

  37. "today hundreds of innocent iraqis are killed yet the silence from Mr Vance is deafening. But they werent white or christian or american i suppose"

    Last time I checked Virginia wasn’t a warzone? And theres plenty of White Christian Americans dying in Iraq daily, but they’re only fighting for democracy, freedom and a better future for all Iraqis – no some crazed kid with a gun is the same thing, right?

  38. DSD,

    "How can you hypocritical Lefties take DV to task for suggesting this connection may have a bearing on Islam after all the times you’ve screamed ‘Timothy McVeigh was a Christian so Christians are just as bad as Muslims’ at us?!?"

    If people in the comments thread before you have screamed that all those times, let’s see a few links to them saying it.

    Unless of course you just made it up.

  39. DSD will be trawling through the net for the most obscure single webblog where some nutter has posted just that as his ‘proof’ that that’s how lefties feel.

  40. Frank: You haven’t lost your chops. Nice one.

  41. I posted something above but it somehow got garbled. Thanks for removing it, David.

    I wanted to say that MR was right and although this guy might have been toying with Islamic extremism, it’s far more likely that he was just deranged.

    Now a country without gun control is one of the places where a deranged person might think of picking up a gun.

  42. Adrian, has the video that the gunman made before the massacre hit the indian airwaves? He really was a deranged psycopath. Scary

  43. No Charles, Can’t say I’ve seen it, though I haven’t been watching the news for the past two days. My mother would have told me if it had come on air.

    Does Texas have a relatively low crime rate these days? Compared with the other states I mean?

  44. Slide show:

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18169776/

  45. Aha! He talks at length about his hatred for the wealthy!
    So he was obviously a leftist and an Islamofascist!

  46. I don’t kown about a low crime rate. It’s all relative, worse than switzerland but not as bad as Cloumbia.

    We have a higher than average crime rate in Dallas, but we are the 10th largest city in the country.

    http://dallas.areaconnect.com/crime1.htm

  47. He also talks about being crucified like Christ. So much for the Islamic angle. He’s totally wacked out.

  48. I don’t understand this guy. Is he comparing himself with Jesus being crucified? Then why does the news report say that he railed against Christianity?

    Anyway thanks for the link, Charles

  49. So is there a connection between gun ownership in Dallas and the crime rate? I always feel that it is cities that should be compared in this respect and not countries or states.

  50. Adrian, you not being able to understand this guy is a testament to your sanity. He’s clearly delusional. Who is he even talking to in this "manifesto?"

    I agree that cities need to be compared to cities vis a vis crime rates.And always the distinction needs to be made between lawful gun ownership and illegal possession and use of a gun in a crime. But alas, we have many crimes committed with guns.

  51. No but I mean didn’t Seung-hui possess his gun legally? My point is that legal gun ownership should be restricted to people who aren’t likely to commit crimes with guns which would mean a whole lot of cross-examination before licensing. I certainly feel that more elaborate tests are needed for giving someone a gun license than for a mere driving license. In South Africa I heard that one has to be 18 to buy a gun but 21 to buy beer.

  52. Oh yes, he did buy the gun legally. I think virginia has pretty lax requirements, but I’m no gun owner, so I really don’t know. I never have owned a gun of any sort.

  53. Comforting to know that there are still people in America who don’t own guns!

    Just kidding.

    How was work today?

  54. Oh, work was really tiring, Adrian.Tomorrow’s my day off, but I have to go to a 3 hour meeting. Rendering unto Caesar can get old after awhile.

    And you? are you still on break. I guess you must be, unless you’re blogging from inside a confessional!

  55. Hmmm I’m busy preparing a powerpoint presentation on India’s leaders for a bunch of schoolkids. I have to present it on Saturday and it has to be translated into Kannada first (beyond my capabilities at the moment).

    I’m staying at home till June and then I move to Mumbai for the next four years to study theology.

    I wish the Vatican would allow confessions via internet but unfortunately the mills of God grind pretty slow…

  56. I was at dinner the other night with a muslim from Karatchi and a muslim friend from Ahamdabad. One asked me who I thought the most important Asian leader of the 20th century was.
    I responded Gandhi. Why they asked. Well, the fact that he led India to independence is well known. But people tend to forget that his nonviolence influnced Martin Luther King. Peace in Texas and the South as a whole today can be traced to the little teacher. Cool!

  57. You’re right, it is!

    The only other candidate I can think of is Mao. Well Gandhi wasn’t perfect, nor was his non-violence. It has blossomed into the Indian habit of going on strike for non-issues like the Shilpa Shetty one. Two things I hold against him – firstly he was too pro-Hindu for me (in favour of caste for instance) and secondly he launched the Quit India movement at a time when it could only have helped Germany and Japan.

  58. Mao would certainly be an important one, but his ideas I think will end up on the trash heap of history. I think you allude to the fact that non violence can be mis-understood. Even Gandhi mis-understood it if he thought it would stand up against Hitler.

    Anyway, those are my brain droppings for tonight. I’m off to bed. Good discussion. Have a good day my friend!

  59. Good night Charles! What I meant was that Gandhi’s movement (launched in 1942) paralysed essential services in India at a time when the British needed them the most.

    He was a great person but like many other Indians of his generation (except Nehru, and the pro-British elements) he failed to understand the true intentions of the Nazis.

  60. "DSD will be trawling through the net for the most obscure single webblog where some nutter has posted just that as his ‘proof’ that that’s how lefties feel."

    Yeah its a bitch when people throw actual evidence at you instead of just indulging in snide remarks isnt it…

  61. it is clear from his writtings that he is Christian ,as he compared his death to the crossification of JC.

  62. Millions,
    But he also "railed" against Christianity according to some reports. I couldn’t make out any railing on the video.

  63. DSD,

    "Yeah its a bitch when people throw actual evidence at you instead of just indulging in snide remarks isnt it…"

    What evidence? If you are under the illusion that you posted evidence can you please repost that evidence as somebody seems to have deleted it.

  64. "it is clear from his writtings that he is Christian ,as he compared his death to the crossification of JC."

    Jesus is also an important figure in Islam, just because someone uses the crucifiction analogy doesn’t mean they’re Christian, at the end of the day he was a psychopath not a follower of any religion – he just needed to give his pathetic existance some kind of meaning.