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ELIZABETH R GOES TO DUBLIN

By Pete Moore On May 17th, 2011

The red carpet, all the quality out in their finest, the 21-gun salute and a guard of honour at the splendid Georgian Áras an Uachtaráin.

Gosh they do like their old world pomp and ceremony over there, eh?

 

 

 

107 Responses to “ELIZABETH R GOES TO DUBLIN”

  1. I hope they look after our Queen and keep her safe
    -from danger and ridicule..

  2. I must admit I was moved (well, slightly. More if the bands had played a few tunes as the guests walked around the Aras) Queen Elizabeth is a nice lady, and I’m looking forward to seeing her, later today at the Garden of Remembrance, pay tribute to all who died in the struggle for Irish independence from Britain.

    Also appropriate that a wide range of Irish political leaders – David Trimble of the UUP, the Taoiseach, Eamon Gilmore of Labour, Anne Low of Alliance, leaders of the SDLP – were all present and united in welcoming the Queen to Ireland.

  3. = Anna Lo

  4. Gosh they do like their old world pomp and ceremony over there, eh?

    We can do it if it’s appropriate but i don’t think it’s our true nature. Let’s hope the 21 gun salute is the loudest noise she hears all week.

  5. Amen to that Henry.

    She looks well in her green.

  6. Some have said that the visit is premature. I understand and quite respect that view. But I think that that the timing is exactly correct.

    I hope and expect that the visit will go very well.

  7. David, your Head OF State, Queen Elizaboth ll has just laid a wreath at the Garden Of Rememberance in Dublin, honouring the thousands of men and women who gave up their lives for the cause of Irish freedom. It is all the apology needed.

  8. Our Queen is the embodiment of devotion to duty, diplomacy and dignity. I really hope that not only will this visit be a success, but perhaps we may turn a corner in our Anglo-Irish relationship.
    Neither side can or should forget the past, but we mustn’t allow it to sour the future.
    I would like to see the Unionists rebuild their political unity.
    I would like to see Republicans/Catholics treated with dignity and fairness, and I look forward to seeing a new generation come through no longer fettered by the past.

  9. It is such a pity that the Unionist Community waited untill they realised their numbers were dwindling before they decided to open their arms and minds to their Irish neighbours. Now that they have crossed the rubicon lets hope that fairness and equality will rule the day.

  10. Whilst I find it hard to stomach whilst the land border, which has been used as a reason for the visit exists, I have to say that it has all been done with respect and dignity so far. The greeting dignitaries did not bow or curtsy, two heads of state met as equals.

    It will be interesting to see what she says at the State Banquet.

    If this creates a scenario where people in the north can accept their Irishness as well as their Britishness then republicans can view it as a partial success, let’s see.

  11. Good for her. Well done Your Majesty.

  12. And Amen to that Pinky.

    Let’s hope that Ireland, North and South, is not let down by dinosaurs. I can’t help but think that there are some on here who would wish for her to be put in danger, and I am not referring to Nationalists or Republicans!

  13. I hear the Queen is going to Berlin next week – apparently an apology to others who killed British soldiers is due.

  14. What happened to my comment? It was the first comment on here, and it was just 2 words

    DAMN DISGRACE

    Who,s editing comments!

  15. >>apparently an apology to others who killed British soldiers is due.<<

    No German Chancellor or President visits another European country without apologising for the damage done there in his or her country's name.
    Now the Queen is apologising for the damage her country caused in conflicts with Ireland.

    Same rules: the loser apologises 🙂

  16. The system does act up.

    I rather doubt that either Pete or David erased the comment, and I believe that they are the only ones who could have erased it.

  17. True

  18. And Troll

    It’s not a disgrace.

    It’s a good day in Irish and British history.

    So far, so good.

  19. Troll – no idea.

  20. Noel Cunningham –

    I’m not sure anyone caught an apology.

    Rather, it was a typically extraordinary and generous act of reconciliation now that the Republic has dropped any claim on the Queen’s domain and accepted the finality of the settlement.

  21. System glitch

  22. This comment says it all David.

    British Colonial history is not something to be proud of. You appear to believe that it is perfectly OK to invade another country, kill those who oppose you and try your damndest to destroy their language and culture whilst pillaging their resourses for your own gain. How dare the Paddys, Wogs, etc. rebel!

    The Brits and the Unionists have a lot to apologize for. The Brits have copped on, why can’t you?

  23. Troll’s opinions must be based on ignorance, otherwise……………..!

  24. You’re correct Pete,
    No apology just a recognition that those that fought for Irish independence had a legitimacy

  25. I seem to remember Troll admitting as such that he had limited knowledge of Irish history and politics previously. Am I wrong?

  26. Yes the Republic has acknowledged that the mistake of 1922, when the island was artificially partitioned ensuring a majority of Loyalist Unionists in those six counties (who subsequently went on to abuse their advantage supported and financed by the Brits) cannot now be undone without the democratic will of the majority there, but spare us the “Queen’s domain” crap.

    If “Lonestar” were still around, he would now be lecturing us on the legitimacy of the Irish Republic etc! The fact is the the island of Ireland was used and abused by the Brits for hundreds of years.

    If anyone is being generous, it is the Irish.

  27. I don’t think of her visit as an apology, or her dignified observance at a national memorial a apology either. It is however another sign of progress and reconciliation between two nations with a long history of conflict. Quite remarkable considering it has been a century since the last British Monarch visited Dublin

  28. I was expecting the Irish President apologising for Irish citizens having murdered the Queen’s cousin. Must have missed it.

  29. You’re not wrong, but he wades in all the same!

  30. Those who snuck a bomb on Lord Mountbatten’s boat weren’t acting at the behest of the state.

    God help us if we have to apologize for every crime our fellow citizens commit.

  31. Maybe she will in private.

  32. Phantom

    Which Nation harboured the IRA?

    Matt

    Why not in public? Something to hide?

  33. The ROI is responsible for the IRA

  34. Well you may have missed the then Irish President and Prime Minister attending a Memorial Mass for him when he was killed.

  35. Maybe that’s because like many others here in NI, we were too busy staying alive despite the IRA’s best efforts. Troll is right, the IRA were funded and armed by elements within the Irish Government. No apology for that yet.

  36. Oh, really?

    Please explain your case, Troll.

    Especially as it was just as illegal in the RofI as it was in NI

    Do expound, in detail…

  37. I wholeheartedly agree. I don’t want an apology, the symbolism says it all.

    The dinosaurs hate it though. They are blinded by their bigotry.

  38. Troll – explain the basis for that whopper.

  39. Which Nation harboured the IRA ?

    The United Kingdom

  40. How’s the collection of long, wooden spoons coming along David? 😉

  41. “Why not in public? Something to hide?”

    Ok, If QE2 apologies for 800 years, MMcA will apologise for Mountbatten!

    Is whataboutry ingrained in Unionist genes David?

  42. They provide them safe harbor, they are responsible, just like Afghanistan and Pakistan with al queada and bin laden

  43. Actually, true.

    The big majority of IRA members were from NI – there were sympathizers in the South, but there were sympathizers in England and the USA. So it makes just as much sense to say that the UK and USA harbored the IRA as it is to say anything else.

  44. There is nothing shameful or wrong with today’s events. It is a mature responsible and civilised visit by the UK’s head of state to a neighbouring Sovereign state, with mutual respect and dignified acknowledgment of each territories different views and experiences of the history they have shared.

  45. >>the IRA were funded and armed by elements within the Irish Government.<<

    That's the kind of lie that keeps popping up, is disproved, disappears until the coast is clear and then pops up again.

  46. Where? Who?

    Guys like Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness lived in NI the whole time – they didn’t hide in Donegal and pop into the North once in a while?

  47. In fairness to Troll, he knows zero about the subject.

  48. Oh so you live in denial?

  49. Troll – that is an absurd claim. Stick to America were you can at least pretend to know something.

  50. Hear hear!

    Somebody tell the dinosaurs!

  51. Damn disgrace

  52. Where in the Republic do you think that the IRA guys hid out?

    The big majority lived the whole time in places like Belfast, Derry, and Armagh.

    With damned few exceptions. They have a Pakistan type safe harbor and probably would not have taken it if offered.

  53. At 2011.05.17 11:39, Mike Cunningham said:

    If the sky does fall in, and the Overseas Funds are indeed raided for Libya/Afghanistan/Iraq/ Take your pick from the barrel, just remember who is in charge of buying the sweeties. It ain’t the Doctor, it will be the MOD civil service with their locked-up purchase deals with BAe Systems who sell this country scads of gear which is 125% over budget, usually doesn’t work, is thirty years out-of-date, and is probably useless without major modifications.

    One Eurofighter Typhoon = three F-16′s, and what is more the F-16s roll off the line fully combat tested and proven. Why did we buy Typhoons? Ask Michael Heseltine, he of the ‘Europe comes first’ ideals, and if it isn’t built in UK, build it in France, or Italy, or anywhere but America!

    I did a brilliantly cynical and funny comment following the above,
    …and it never got added.
    ATW’s version of a gagging order I reckon!
    🙂

  54. –they did not have a Pakistan type safe harbor —

  55. AS Colm noted earlier,
    Troll likes EXCITEMENT…

  56. No I wouldn’t say you were that Troll, just misinformed. Don’t be too hard on yourself 😉

  57. The man who killed Mountbatten was arrested and convicted in the Republic.

  58. Troll, What are your views on 1916 and the Irish War of Independencs?

  59. In case you hadn’t noticed, the English were used and abused by the Romans, the Vikings AND the Normans..
    In fact most countries have been abused by someone in their history,

    so don’t try putting on airs and graces,
    and pretending that you’re anything special…. 🙂

  60. Some safe harbor

  61. An utter disgrace.
    The Queen should hang her head in shame.
    The whole affair is disgusting almost beyond words.

  62. ‘s probably being edited for spelling mistakes Troll…

  63. Phantom –

    So it makes just as much sense to say that the UK and USA harbored the IRA as it is to say anything else.

    Not really.

    The difference is that terrorist insurrectionists in the UK were generally hunted down, brought to justice and sometimes, happily, sent to the cold, boggy grave in the sky.

    The US, on the other hand, has a record of harbouring IRA terrorists.

  64. Pete – How odd, since according to ATW the UK has been quite remiss in hunting them down ad bringing them to justice. On the other hand IRA members who have made it to the US were not harbored by the government.

  65. Mahons –

    I’m not sure there’s an ATW editorial line on anything, but IRA terrorists were generally brought to justice. I said nothing about the political betrayal of thousands of bereaved thereafter.

    As for IRA terrorists in the US, it doesn’t matter whether it was the government, state courts, supreme court or old mother hubbard who harboured them, the plain fact is that the US has long been a country which gives succour and shelter (and an awful lot of funding) to terrorists.

    I know it goes against the national mythology, but no-one pays me to reinforce that.

  66. Well said, JM

  67. Really – is that why the fled south of the border 😉

  68. And the released. Under the appeasement process that this celebrates.

  69. Au contraire, it is the sort of fact you do not like.

  70. I’d believe that an awful lot of that funding came a lot closer to ” home ” than you’ll admit. A lot of what they did didn’t require a lot of dough

    And -truth be told- I understand that a lot of what was raised stateside was small beer, and a good bit of that somehow never made it across the Atlantic.

  71. After serving 19 years.

    You will say that this was not enough, and most of us will agree with you

  72. >>Well said, JM<<

    LOL. You will find stuff as "well said" on any public toilet wall.

  73. >>As for IRA terrorists in the US, it doesn’t matter whether it was the government, <<

    Let's see… Troll says it's the UK that was too soft on them, David says it was the RoI, Pete Moore says it was the US.

    I admit there is something that seems to support Pete's view

    http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2776/4388728430_97ee7fb6f6.jpg

  74. Hang around in public toilets a lot Noel?
    Maybe thats where you learned to talk such s*it?

  75. The British found it hard to accept that the US and Irish courts were not creatures of the government. UK courts and judges are in political cases instruments of government policy. The Diplock Courts and the torture centre at Castlereagh repulsed those who dispensed justice fairly.

    The corrupt bigoted Orange state was brought down only to be replaced by a brutal undemocratic occupation aimed at crushing resistance so the Unionist could be put back on their perch. Those around the world who refused to buy in to Britain’s oppressive agenda did the people of Ireland a huge favour. They brought the British to the table where the issues should always have belonged. Violence failed everybody.

  76. JM, when I go there it’s to deposit something, not to pick up writing tips 🙂

    No offence, but imagine the praise you’d get from David if you said something with a bit of substance (and that concurred with his opinion, of course)

  77. Admin questions as ATW has no open threads.

    1) Why is site clock 1 hr behind GMT? Has it always been like this and I just
    haven’t noticed?

    2) Can the automatic hiding of comments on an active thread not be disabled in some
    way? I post a comment and then have to enable all comments again. Its a pain in
    the arse.

    2) How can I insert smileys and hyperlinks? Is there a help page somewhere?

    the
    arse.

  78. Double arse – sorry!

  79. >>aimed at crushing resistance so the Unionist could be put back on their perch<<

    In fairness, I doubt if that was the purpose, Henry. Britain tried to crush Nationalist resistance simply because it cannot be neutral or fair in a dispute involving pro-Union and anti-Union forces. Restoring the rigged Unionist set-up as in pre-1972 was, however, not their goal. Seems to me that one of the problems was that Britain had no political goal in NI at all.

  80. I’m not here for David’s approval.
    It just so happens that myself and David agree on many topics. We have also disagreed many times.
    David is a decent, honest man and he has my respect but i speak for myself.
    Todays events were an utter disgrace. On that we agree 100%.

  81. Pete – If you mean people in the US gave money and support to the IRA and its ilk, the answer is of course. They had a devious and naive bunch of supporters here. If you mean the US government did, you are profoundly mistaken.

  82. Phantom is correct
    US Funding was nowhere near as important as funding in the North and RoI.
    It was a source of arms for example (supporters of the second amendment here take note) but they had othere sources in the continent, in the middle east and of course they made a lot themselves. Given loyalists ability to make sub machine guns I would imagine they could have done more.

    “The American Connection” by the late Jack Holland is a good source on this.

  83. “The Diplock Courts and the torture centre at Castlereagh repulsed those who dispensed justice fairly.”

    Yes the whole world was appalled at robbing terrorists of the chance to intimidate juries and instead use the kind of court that pretty much everyone outside the Anglosphere uses for regular justice.

  84. “Yes the whole world was appalled at robbing terrorists of the chance to intimidate juries and instead use the kind of court that pretty much everyone outside the Anglosphere uses for regular justice.”

    So “pretty much everyone else outside the Angloshpere” uses rigged political courts do they? And State sponsored torture centres?

    I believe that “pretty much everyone else outside the Angloshpere” who count were actually appalled by what went on.

  85. “The ROI is responsible for the IRA”

    I have to say I agree 100% with Troll.

    If Jack Lynch had have asserted the rightful place of the Irish State as the protector of Irish citizens in the 6 Counties in 1969, the Provos would probably not have come into existence or fizzled out once the State intervened.

  86. “I believe that “pretty much everyone else outside the Angloshpere” who count were actually appalled by what went on.”

    Like who? I know that Libya, Cuba and Iran had a soft spot for Irish republican terrorism but I’m pretty sure that the Germans, French, Japanese etc weren’t buying the tosh about rigged courts.

  87. They got as much funding from plastic paddies in London, Glasgow & Liverpool as those in New York & Boston.

  88. North and South suffered for centuries regardless of the purps it was horrific, what the

  89. Though some of the criticisms ring very true, big picture, I think that something fundamentally good is happening.

  90. “Yes the whole world was appalled at robbing terrorists of the chance to intimidate juries and instead use the kind of court that pretty much everyone outside the Anglosphere uses for regular justice”

    Wonder if “pretty much everyone outside the Anglosphere” used these means too?

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/oct/11/inside-castlereagh-confessions-torture

  91. Tumbleweed!

  92. Charlie Haughey and Kevin Boland were members of the Irish government in 1969 and they were active in chanelling funds to what became the greatest terrorist murder machine that Europe had ever seen.

    Which is not to claim that government funds were involved, just government ministers.

  93. Kevin Boland was never charged with any offence and had no involvement in the events around the arms trial. the ministers who were charged Haughey and Blaney were acquitted. In so far as any material assistance was given to northern nationalists it was in the context of sectarian attacks by loyalists and the forces of the sectarian state.

    It was the Northern government that created the provos not the southern government.

    In his study, `From Civil Rights to Armalites’, Niall O Dochartaigh identifies the actions of the RUC and B Specials as the key factor in the escalation of the conflict. “From the outset, the response of the state and its forces of law and order to Catholic mobilisation was an issue capable of arousing far more anger and activism than the issues around which mobilisation had begun,’’ writes O Dochartaigh. “Police behaviour and their interaction with loyalist protesters probably did more to politically mobilise large sections of the Catholic community than did any of the other grievances.’’

    “Out of the ashes of Bombay Street rose the Provisionals”

  94. So no problem then? The Provos arose entirely without help from Dublin politicians?

    Of course the 1969 Loyalist pogrom cannot be denied. But the situation was stabilised by the arrival of British soldiers a few days later. And it was after that when the money started to flow from Dublin – luckily the Irish Pound was 1:1 with Sterling and Irish banknotes and coins were accepted in “The North”, so that must have helped the good auld cause.

  95. The problem with sending in the British troops was that they were sent in to aid the Orange government and very soon they became protagonists on the unionist side. When the Queen tonight talked about things that should have been done differently I’m sure an earlier abolition of the majority rule Stormont would have been one of those things

    I think historians will criticise both the IRA and the British for concentrating on a military solution to a political problem. But in those early days if nationalists had not organised to defend themselves there would have been mass-murder without a doubt.

  96. The problem with sending in the British troops was that they were sent in to aid the Orange government…

    No, they were sent in to restore order in Belfast and Derry. In Belfast the Catholic community had been attacked by loyalist mobs and the soldiers were greeted as protectors. In Derry, the police had retreated from the Bogside and the soldiers made no attempt to enter that area. But a few months later the British Home Secretary (James Callaghan) felt safe enough to walk into the Bogside and meet the people. I wonder if Martin McGuinness was there that day?

  97. The term used was “to aid the civil power”. That was Stormont. It was a blunder not to introduce Direct Rule and all party talks immediately. One of many blunders on many sides. The initial welcome for the soldirs was because they were not the RUC. In the end they were worse.

  98. Henry

    Yes, many blunders have been made in the long history of Anglo-Irish relations. The Brits have (more or less) owned up to theirs, culminating in the Queen’s visit this week.

    It would be refreshing if the nationalist side could admit to their blunders, but it seems we will have to await a few more years at least for the end of mopery. And for the usual suspects, it will always be “four legs goood, two legs bad!” as we have seen near Dublin Castle tonight. The beast is not dead, it is merely sleeping.

  99. Practially all of Europe was emotionally on the side of those fighting for civil rights and justice in Northern Ireland, and that included the end of torture centres and fair trial, etc. That support of course did not always get political expression due to NATO and Britain’s role in Europe.

  100. LOL, well said, MR.

  101. Peter

    I think we are well aware of our blunders. As the lady said there are things we would have done differently or not at all. Do you want the list?

  102. Diplomatic speeches by their very nature have to be cautious and diplomatic and can even be quite ambiguous.

    When the Queen said that we look back at the past and wish things had been done differently, I wonder if she meant

    A: – “That we regret many of our military and political actions in ireland”

    B: – “That Cromwell didn’t finish you buggers off” 😉

  103. Colm, or that the British people gave the maximum 12 points to Jedward.

  104. Now that was an indefensible British shame. The Queen should definitely apologise for the UK supporting that pile of Irish poo 😉

  105. Although, Colm, it’s nice to see you have the honour of private audience with her Majesty today

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0519/queen.html

  106. i suppose it depends what you call the “nationalist side”. There is plenty of beast-beating in the South, including the extremes of Myers, Harris etc.
    In fact I think this association of regret for previous actions in the WoI with pro-British Militarism probably holds back others from being too critical of previous nationalist efforts.
    Not that this excuses it.

  107. Now you will know why the Queen will have a beaming smile for the rest of the day 🙂