THE ISLAND….
By David Vance On August 1st, 2011Let me be clear so that there is no room for ambiguity. There is no excuse for the horrific actions carried out by Anders Breivik. His slaughter of teenagers on the island of Utoya stands to be condemned and unlike liberals, I would like to see him given the death penalty for his crimes. (However under enlightened Norwegian justice, he will instead get just over 100 days per life taken. C’est la mort.)
But disturbing revelations are emerging as to what precisely these Norwegian youth were undergoing on Utoya are emerging and since the MSM will ignore this, we shouldn’t. It looks like Utoya was being used to indoctrinate those who attended into what is already established and documented as hateful Norwegian anti-Semitism.
Labour Youth League summer camp at Utøya got the Labour Party’s young hopefuls a visit by Foreign Minister Jonas Gahr Store. The Palestinians “must have their own state, the occupation must end, the wall must be demolished and it must happen now,” said the Norwegian Foreign Minister to cheers from the audience.
The main activity at the Utoya Island Meeting were mock “Break the Israel blockade” games. One event was Palestinian aide boats would try to break the Israel blockage. The sign says “defeat the blockade” (opphev blokkaden – Gaza) Utoya camp was not Islamist but it WAS something not much more wholesome (by our standards, at any rate). It was a summer indoctrination camp run by Norway’s ruling Labor Party for up-and-coming children of the ruling elite.
This might explain the comment made by one of the survivors;
“Some of my friends tried to stop him by talking to him. Many people thought that it was a test … comparing it to how it is to live in Gaza.” Eyewitness statement the day of the shooting. (ABC New)
Things get worse when we discover that Fatah regularly put in attendance at this summer camps. Fatah, you will recall, were the terrorist groups responsible for the slaughter of the Fogel family, with the baby being decapitated in that particular atrocity. Except, of course, some Norwegians think that terror is different when Jews get killed.
!Norway’s ambassador to Israel, Svein Sevje, was quoted in an interview as saying that terrorist attacks against Israelis are morally more acceptable than the attack last week against Norway. His reasoning, as Alan Dershowitz argues, is that, “We Norwegians consider the occupation to be the cause of the terror against Israel.”
The Norwegian Labour Party has some big questions to answer. Rather than some summer idyll, it has been organising something that looks like an anti-Israel indoctrination centre each year. No one deserves to die for such, of course, just as NO Jewish person deserves to die at the hands of Fatah-Hamas.
The camp has had a left-wing political theme since it was organized. I presume among the things promoted would be ecology, nuclear non-proliferation, civil rights and without a doubt a view of the Middle East that does not conform to a conservative view. While I don’t share the prevailing view of Norway’s Labor Party on the Israel-Arab conflict, there is certainly nothing automatically anti-Semitic about be opposed to Israel’s actions or policies.
Of course, certain people may combine anti-semitism with an anti-Israel position, but it doesn’t appear to be the story on this Island.
Disturbing revelations indeed, though unsurprising. It’s a rare “progressive Leftist” who can see a child and resist the urge to capture and mould him. Mental and emotional kiddie-fiddling is standard practice with these wierdoes.
These are people in direct line of descent from eugenicists afterall.
Boycotts of the type favoured by Norwegian “progressives” are acts of war. The children on that island weren’t only being subjected to propaganda, they were encouraging acts of war against Israel.
What a despicable party it is.
What an absurd claim.
Pete- how are boycotts acts of war?
In previous comments you have been sceptical of the idea that the Taliban committed an act of war by harbouring Bin Laden.
Presumably if the Taliban had decided to boycott US goods that would have been an act of war
Ross -
State economic boycotts are intended to destroy and are therefore acts of war.
I don’t recall any claim that “the Taliban committed an act of war by harbouring Bin Laden”, so I couldn’t have been sceptical.
I pointed out the inconvenient truth that the Taliban requested evidence from Washington of bin Laden’s culpability in the 9/11 attacks prior to extradition. It was a reasonable request wholly in line with international norms.
No evidence was presented.
I know the blockhead thing to do is go along with the “he did it, we don’t need no evidence” nonsense, but I’m not a blockhead.
Ross
There is no remote logic to Pete’s ludicrous assertion. Pete only calls it an act of war because it’s being done by the left. If these youngsters were being encouraged to help old people across the road Pete Moore would claim it was an act of war by ‘lefties’ against pensioners independence.
Moral decency does not apply to any of those who are smearing the organisation of this summer camp. They won’t allow morality to interrupt their narrow minded obsession to sneer at anything ‘left wing’. Pete and others like him may respond with some waffle to try and justify their attacks on this event but there is no remote justification for it. They are smearing the good names and decent intentions of these murdered youngsters but they are too bloody obsessed with their dehumanising determination to label everything politically to care or to sense when they have gone too far below the belt. I won’t argue on this matter any more because in all honesty this debate should not even be necessary. It is sickening.
Pete
You are making zero sense
I don’t generally believe in boycotts but they are generally the most legal and peaceful thing in the world
And your comment about providing proof to the Taliban is again legalistic and foolish and ridiculous
Colm – I agree, but I think it is important not to “debate them” as that would imply two reasonable points of view, but to point out the ludicrous claims are in fact ludicrous.
Phantom -
My comment about the Taliban requesting evidence in vain is factual. It is inconvenient but it’s the truth.
It might be “peaceful” in your world to force an economic boycott, but the state will prosecute you for trading with Cubans. In my world that’s an act of agression against you and Cubans.
If you wish to disagree with me then go right ahead, but do occasionally mix it up with a substantial argument.
You’re drowning. Time to learn how to swim.
Pete – You are entitled to substantial arguement when you advance one.
I notice no one has commented on the fact Fatah are a regular fixture at these youth camps. Given that Yassar Arafat’s terror group is hardly without BLOOD on its hands, including the Fogels, I am curious at any take up.
If Fatah (in fact) is a regular fixture I believe this would be a mistake on behalf of the Norway organization. The degree of mistake would depend on the level of participation. However, I don’t see this as descending to the level of Hitler Youth Camps.
Do you have evidence of the Norway group calling for, supporting or justifying the attack on the Fogel family?
Phantom wrote:
“And your comment about providing proof to the Taliban is again legalistic and foolish and ridiculous”
The taliban merely asked for ‘evidence’ which is some way short of ‘proof’. What nailed the taliban was their destruction of Afghanistan’s opium crop. Fortunately, the corporate pharmaceuticals have sent their military in to protect it. On this one, there is strong evidence which not so far short of proof.
The Taliban knew full well what their guest was up to
The tried a stall tactic and folks did not fall for it.
‘The taliban merely asked for ‘evidence’ which is some way short of ‘proof’. What nailed the taliban was their destruction of Afghanistan’s opium crop. Fortunately, the corporate pharmaceuticals have sent their military in to protect it. On this one, there is strong evidence which not so far short of proof.’
Nano, nano, Alan.
There is the grain of truth in the Truther’s comment
The Taliban actually did a good job in suppressing the production of opium
I remember reading that in 2000
I notice no one has commented on the fact Fatah are a regular fixture at these youth camps
What was the source of this? I have seen this repeated on a number of right wing blogs but have not seen it from an authoritative source. Where did you see it?
Try this
http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=407665
Unless the Palestinians are liars?
Well that article does not describe the extent of the Fatah participation, which is what you would want to see to determine if it supports the claims alleged against the people in Norway.
Now you are arguing with the “extent” of the participation, thus acknowledging that they WERE there. Why was this terror group there? Maybe to debate the slaughter of the Fogel family?
David – Like you I have no idea if they were actually there or not and like you I have no knowledge of the extent of theri participation. Were there representatives of Palestianians at the camp? It seems there may have been from the article cited. Were these representatives engaged in anti-semitism -there is no evidence of that whatsoever. And certainly no evidence that anyone at the camp supported the attack on the Fogel family.
Phantom – the evidence of the taliban’s suppression of opium is stronger you wrote, and you know it. On threads which you were writing, links were posted showing the near-absolute collapse of opium production in 2001 and its dramatic recovery in 2002 and continued ‘improvements’ in production which almost match the US military’s presence in Afghanistan. Now, exactly what is the policy regarding the poppy fields for the 100,000 troops in Afghanistan?
Thank you. I wasn’t suggesting it wasn’t true, but the Internet is very good at being an echo chamber and certain “facts” have a velocity of their own.
It certainly appears that the Fatah youth wing was a frequent visitor. It is unlikely that they were there to spread a message of support for Israel.
But do we really think that this is the time to be discussing this? These children haven’t even been buried.
Geoff – Yes, it is time, because those who haven’t been buried are being labled as anti-semites or pariticipating in an anti-semite organization.
And support for the Palestianians is not necessarily anti-semitic.
Allan
I agreed with you you knucklehead when I said
The Taliban actually did a good job in suppressing the production of opium
I remember reading that in 2000
The US / NATO governments have chosen to look the other way on the matter of opium production. Which is an immoral action to be sure.
Support for Fatah is. Read their “constitution” QED
Participation of Fatah (to the extent it occured) is not necessarily support of Fatah’s policies. There is no indication in what I have read or seen that the participants in the Labour Party Camp in Norway were engaged in actual anti-semitism.
They certainly were no pro-israel in their political positions, which is of course their right in a free democracy. They may have been naive (or correct) in their positions, and may have applied a double standard (or triple standard) as regards Israel, but that is not anti-semitism in and of itself.
I am afraid that all the evidence shows that Norway has an atrocious record of anti-Semitism. Why?
David – I’m not sure that Norway has a record of anti-semitism that unfortunately would make it stand out among European nations if you are referring the historical record. Certainly there is a blur between anti-semitism and anti-israeli sentiment that some might point to, but I don’t think that is a fair characterization of the opinion of its people in general or that labour party in particular.
Sadly one can find instances and utterances of anti-semitism in Norway (as we can elsewhere). But I don’t think outright anti-semitism is the province of any of its mainstream parties.
Have a read
http://www.jpost.com/International/Article.aspx?id=217194
I read it. An interview with a “Jew Hatred Expert” who cites Alan Dershowitz, a famous Jewish-American attorney who would find anti-semitism at a B’nai B’rith meeting.
Nothing contained therein indicates that the youth camps were hotbeds of anti-semitism.
In fact, the interviewee tried to link Norway with the Warsaw Pact, when in fact Norway is in NATO. i suppose he is not a “Warsaw Pact Expert”.
Phantom – there’s a lot more to the US policy on opium in Afghanistan than ‘looking the other way’. The US and UK militaries have been looking the other way now for over a decade whilst drug use in the developed countries gets out of control,and I’m sure that Pinky would agree.
So, what we now know for certain is that a governing political party invited the representatives of a terrorist organisation to its youth camp, and we’re agreed that Fatah is terrorist. Not exactly the sort of people to invite to a ‘youth camp’, are they?
Mahons
Then try this. Fatah salute their “comrades” in Norwegian Labour Youth.
Are Fatah lying?
http://radiopatriot.wordpress.com/2011/07/29/fatah-youth-group-took-part-in-norwegian-summer-camp/
Maybe Labour Youth were unaware of Fatah’s years of terorism against Jews?
David – In none of the articles you cite do I see where the Labour Party in Norway endorsed Fatah’s terrorist acions. As I wrote previously, I think that participaton by Fatah woul be a mistake. But if that participation was merely limited to denouncing Israel’s policies then it isn’t anti-semetic. If there was actual anti-semitism advanced (the likes of Allan@abereen stylings here) then I would expect it would be objected to.
Support for Fatah is. Read their “constitution” QED
So the Israeli Govt is anti-Semitic is it. The US Govt under Bush was anti-Semitic was it ?
Tell me David if you support the Israeli Govt does that mean you support the views of one of it’s parties spiritual leaders in his anti-gentile views?