IN LOVE WITH THE IDEA, NOT THE REALITY…
By ATWadmin On August 14th, 2007
As Andrew McCann commented previously, the Scottish Nationalist Party has unveiled plans that could pave the way for the break-up of the Union with the rest of the United Kingdom. (No surprise there then – although one must also reflect on Northern Ireland First Minister Dr Ian Paisley’s admiration for Alex Salmond!) But what interests me is that this statement comes in the wake of a YouGov opinion poll showing a significant drop in public backing in Scotland for independence. Paradoxically, the same survey showed growing support for the party led by Mr Salmond whose political honeymoon north of the border has mirrored Gordon Brown’s across Britain as a whole. Mr Salmond has also been helped by signs of disarray within the Scottish Labour Party. It seems the Scots love the idea of being independent but resile from the reality of it. I don’t blame them – without the powerhouse southern English economy, poor old Scotland and its junkie like reliance on the State would find the high(land) life not quite so easy to fund. So Salmond and his ilk can continue to dream of the unreachable goal - the crown in the pocket is what makes the Union secure.
"without the powerhouse southern English economy, poor old Scotland and its junkie like reliance on the State would find the high(land) life not quite so easy to fund."
David,
I was reading the Sunday Business Post last weekend and there was a piece on job growth (private sector!!) in Scotland over the last year or so. It appears that the Scots are quietly making progress on job creation; and without the inflation that bedevilled the Republic.
Unfortunately, I don’t have the link but I’ll check the SBP website.
David,
loyal to the half crown and not the crown as we used to say in Ireland back at the start of the last century.
Scotland has a lot of growing up to do.
Reg,
if you use the CPI rate that is favoured in the EU, there isn’t that much difference between Irish and British inflation over the last year or so.
Some of the pro-independence sentiment may have been assuaged by the SNP victory. What they need to do now is show they can govern and I think they are doing well in that so far.National liberation is all about seizing the historical moment when it presents itself.
Now that England accepts the principle of constituent parts of the uk leaving peacefully it is simply a matter of time.
Reg,
Scottish jobs are being created in the STATE sector.
David,
Would you say then that Union with England, while beneficial for the Scots in terms of security, and world influence has been negative in economic terms. The dependency on London and England that you describe was surely encouraged by the Union, in that the economic purse was held in London and it was London that directed economic strategy.
How can a constituent nation within the UK develop an economic strategy of their own when they do not have the tools to do so.
Alex Salmond reminds me of the old Maltesse (Malta) politician Dom Mintoff. He made a right bollocks of Malta when he got independance and took Malta away from Britain and the Commonwelth.
But the Maltesse people quickly learnt…and just as quickly came back.
Devolution has been discussed since the late 1800s as a means of reforming the Union because of the fact that the union as it stood, could not accommodate the aspirations of the Irish who, at that time, merely wanted some form of fiscal control, independence was not on the cards.
All of the arguments rolled out against Scottish devolution were also rolled out against the Irish.. namely, ye guys are incapable of running things yourselves.
London reacted too slowly back then due to vested interests, and look where it lead. If people want Scotland to remain within the union then they should be prepared to give the Scots the devolved powers that they want to look after themselves. Surely the union is more then just an economic one is it not ?
David,
Not in the State sector.
http://www.sbpost.ie/post/pages/p/wholestory.aspx-qqqt=LAST+POST-qqqs=agenda-qqqsectionid=3-qqqc=10.7.0.0-qqqn=1-qqqx=1.asp
Hope that link works. If not, the gist is that recent Bank of Scotland research has shown that 65,000 jobs have been created in Scotland in the business and financial services sector in the last 5 years (outstripping the rest of Britain).
Has anyone thought what the status of our present Prime Minister would be if Scotland takes the independance route?
Has anyone thought what the status of our present Prime Minister would be if Scotland takes the independance route?
He would most likely not be affected as he could probably claim dual citizenship along the lines of the Anglo Irish agreement 1922
Kloot,
He would be representing a Scottish constituency in a UK Parliament when Scotland would no longer be a part of the UK. Rather difficult don’t you think
He would be representing a Scottish constituency in a UK Parliament when Scotland would no longer be a part of the UK. Rather difficult don’t you think
I see your point Peter. Your right. His position would hardly be tenable in that circumstance.
Reg,
"If not, the gist is that recent Bank of Scotland research has shown that 65,000 jobs have been created in Scotland in the business and financial services sector in the last 5 years (outstripping the rest of Britain)."
Good figures on their own but let’s look at the total.
Scotland with a population of just over five million created 100,000 net jobs in the last five years.
The Republic created 300,000 net jobs in the last five years.
The Republic has a population of 4.2 million.
Did you see the scottish chav hunting video the SNP were upset about the other day?
Reg,
Scotland’s economic growth is 2%. The average economic growth in the rest of the UK is 2.7% -almost 50% higher. In Argyll and Clyde, 76% of the economy is generated from the state, in the form of spending by councils, health boards and through other forms of government activity. In Ayrshire and Arran, the figure is 74%. In Lanarkshire, it is 72%. Scottish Enterprise claims that total public spending in Scotland in 2002-03 reached £40bn, or 55% of Scotland’s total economy. That’s without parallel across the UK. Stalin would be proud of that level of State control.
Scotland, like Wales, is a fiefdom of the Labour party at Westminster, not a vassal of England as Salmond and the SNP like to pretend. It’s an old political trick to adopt the posture of a brave little man standing up to a bully. I suspect that the poll showing a majority of English votes for Scottish independence has since increased, a lot. The English, like the Scots, deserve independence.
If the "union" is so secure then nobody will be afraid of a referendum, now will they?
JG,
I love referendums. I’m just waiting for one seeking the return of capital punishment for terrorists, past and present.
David,
I was just quoting figures that (although selective) question the "Scotland as socialist bureaucracy" idea.
If your figures are correct (and I don’t doubt them) then there are still major problems. Nevertheless, strides are seeming to be made in certain areas.
"In Ayrshire and Arran, the figure is 74%."
Ayrshire is a hole. Haste ye back? I don’t f***ing think so!
David, do I understand you right ? Since the English have eventually done what force of arms coud not do (to the Scots), and reduced them to a state of penury and beggary, depending on the public teat; given that, it makes sense for them to stay in the Union, because otherwise they can’t afford to look after themselves ?
This seems to be a case of circular thinking ! And a total lack of any moral considerations. David, are you a victim of the modern conservative disease – do you think all the world cares about is a tiny difference in the tax rate and the accent of the next PM?
Hi Orlando,
My point is clear. The Scots like the idea of Independence but will not vote for it. Why? I suggest it is because an innate sense of financial survival dominates. England is also not in any way responsible for the Scottish handout dependency. Scotland is.
England is held captive by the NuLab MPs sent to Westminster by Scotland. It is vital that England be freed in order that the English can get to grips with the huge and unwelcome tsunami of migrants which will render them a minority in their own country within my lifetime. It’s quite simple: Scotland has to go and I’ll be voting SNP – for England’s sake!
David, I’m sure many Scots like the idea, but get a bit wobbly-knee’d about it. That’s to be expected after 300 years of membership if the UK.
However, I think there is no evidence for your financial take on this. That’s a short-term view. I won’t argue the toss about it, but I don’t know of any small european countries that became poorer after throwing off their foreign rulers.