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HATE CRIME

By David Vance On May 23rd, 2012

Now let me be VERY clear that I was utterly appalled at the comments tweeted by student Liam Stacey as footballer Fabrice Muamba lay fighting for his lfe on a football pitch. They were odious, tasteless, and profoundly stupid. BUT, were they illegal?

A STUDENT jailed for posting vile racist comments on the internet after footballer Fabrice Muamba suffered a heart attack finally admitted yesterday he made a “massive, massive mistake”. Undergraduate Liam Stacey, 21, spoke of his remorse after he was freed last week from jail after serving half a 56-day sentence. He became a national hate figure for mocking the 23-year-old Bolton Wanderers midfielder as he battled for life after collapsing on the pitch in an FA Cup match in March. Stacey, of Pontypridd, South Wales, was arrested and later admitted racially aggravated public disorder after his Twitter outburst.

I worry about this sort of sentencing. I can appreciate the upset caused to Mr Muamba’s family and friends and supporters and I also accept the need to not let the vile comments pass but is criminalising someone for expressing an opinion the right sort of thing to do?

28 Responses to “HATE CRIME”

  1. He didn’t make a mistake, he just didn’t think he would get caught!
    What he said was illegal.
    I am against our multicultural state, but I would not insult or abuse any member of a non indigenous ethnic minority. Usually out of respect – sometimes with the added incentive of fear.
    The situation is not going to get better, it is going to get worse. Sooner or later, the indigenous white population are going to realise that their culture is not only under attack; their whole future is in jeopardy. Some television programmes are intentionally brain washing or anaethetising in taking peoples’ minds off what is happening in our nation.
    My wife is a fan of The Chase, a popular quiz show. A university “history student” was asked where Sir Walter Raleigh was playing bowls when he heard that the Spanish Armada had been sighted.
    He didn’t know, because it was such a long time ago and he wasn’t sure of the circumstances…
    Our Island/English history is being airbrushed out, in order that newcomers to our country may feel more at home in their adopted “non Country”.

  2. If you go anywhere in the world where you are disliked for whatever reason, you must expect to be made to feel unwelcome. The more disliked, the more unwelcome you will be made to feel. Afghanistan is a good example.

    However, in this instance it is the goverment that extends the welcome, and passes laws to insist that the population does likewise, – theoretically quite legal, but hardly democratic or a homage to the fictional ideal of ‘free speech’.

    It has often been said with regard to the more social aspects of life that ‘it is better to educate than to legislate’, especially if the aim is to change such basic attitudes.

    Of course, as discussed elsewhere, the education system is itself a failure on so many fronts, that is unlikely to be the politicians choice for a quick fix to the problem of racial disharmony, and certainly not while it remains such a fertile source of votes.

  3. A 56 day sentence????

    Heck that’s more than you’d get for manslaughter in the Republic of (Do anything you want) Ireland.

    I reiterate my theory:

    The Irish government doesn’t want to jail people who commit physical crimes against the person or civilian property, such as: murder, rape, arson, theft, assault…….There’s no value to the government only cost of running the jail. Ergo, it’s a losing proposition for government.

    However,

    Any crime, which threatens inflow of money to the government coffers, i.e. non-payment of motor tax, TV license etc. is likely to be dealt with by incarceration.

    One other category is likely to earn a “holiday” in Mountjoy or other lockup: A “perceived” violation of the political correct code dealing with RACISM. Government has to be seen as tough on this sort of “crime(?)” because the country is loaded with do-gooders who have nothing better to do than toot their racism horns loudly.

  4. Ernesto,
    Were we both younger I would be tempted to ask you to help me set up a political party.
    We would campaign on a democratic UK, in which British law would be the ONLY law, immigrants unwilling to commit to our culture and priorities would be deported.
    Our military would be strengthened, the living conditions, pensions and aftercare improved. Our private sector encouraged, our government cut back, our national policies including taxes, law and order, immigration, and employment, as well as benefits put out for public discussion.
    You will no doubt think of the things I have omitted :)

  5. speech is speech, you can not, and should not make any speech a crime. Especially offensive speech must be protected.

  6. Agit8ed,

    Quite an outline for a manifesto…

    Unfortunately I fancy that only something quite radical will be needed to recoup some degree of sanity to our governance. One act I would be quite keen on would be the trial of Blair and Brown for treason, from a much larger list of their misdeamenours… :-)

  7. Troll,

    You are preaching to the converted.

  8. Amen brother Ernest

  9. What he said was wrong.

    But it should not be illegal to say what he did in any civilized country, one which purports to respect speech rights.

    If every wrong action is to be made illegal, we can all produce a very long list of things that should be outlawed.

    Shame on those who made this bad law, and on all who makes excuses for it.

    The US is screwed up in many ways, and we’re clearly on the same PC road that the UK has long traveled on, but if this happened here, no one would think it to be a crime.

  10. Why is anyone appalled by his comments? Political correctness and liberalism are indeed sinister, they even have a grip on DV :s

    I’m not appalled by his comments. He was drunk, they were racist slurs rather than actual racism, and they were said firstly on the internet – in a private space – and SECONDLY, in reply to MUCH WORSE insults directed against him, including a direct threat to his family – which is far more worthy of punishment than saying n*gger and “cot*** p*cker”.

    He didn’t say any race was inferior or superior to another. He didn’t essentialise any race – the mark of real racism – i.e, he didn’t say all blacks are criminals, he didn’t say all asians are sly, or that all whites like to divide and conquer, you know, real racism where someone is defined by the colour of her or his skin.

    What he say was poorly calculated to be illegal through various magical spells of the judges. It should NOT be illegal, and the fact that people are saying “it’s illegal” as justifican shows how poorly people understand what “free speech” means, implies, and so on.

    At any rate in order for you to have heard his comments you had to “FOLLOW” him on twitter – any imaginary disorder caused by his mild racial slurs had to be first taken by OTHER PEOPLE and RETWEETED. I’d like to see everyone who retweeted his words thrown in jail as well, if we’re being fair, seeing as they were also creating “disorder.”

  11. In addition, this has nothing directly to do with Mr Muamba. All “racist” insults were directed at other citizens who had taken it upon themselves to insult and in some cases violently threaten Mr. Stacey’s family.

  12. Sorry for a third post but using Ayn Rand’s litmus test for free speech says you have the right to say anything that does not cause violence/harm to others, but also you have the RIGHT to not be subject to someone’s free speech if it is offensive. I.e you can’t do things that are clearly offensive to people in a town-centre, you should be removed, though not imprisoned. Twitter is not a public forum in that sense. If you don’t like a comment you don’t have to read it – indeed you could only have read these racial comments if someone directed you to read it/retweeted it to you. In addition you have to sign a user agreement to use twitter! In an actual public forum you you’re rights to not hear other’s free speech are being infringed when you enter a public area where you have no choice but to hear words that are offensive.

    Obviously this is theory, not something practiced in our laws, sadly.

    At most, Twitter should have CHOSEN to delete this man’s account – and the accounts of those who did far worse than he, calling for physical violence on himself and his family. I have no problem with the police being involved in death threats, which Stacey was subject to.

    We live in a deeply sick, degenerate world, where mildly racist internet comments seem to carry more stigma than stealing someone’s property.

  13. As Michael Savage has said repeatedly, freedom of speech protections don’t exist to protect polite speech. You don’t need protection for a polite essay.

    It exists to protect hard speech, things that might offend.

    I wouldn’t hold it against someone if they punched Stacey in the gut for what he said. It might be a valuable lesson for the young bastard. But it is very wrong to have the police and legal system engaging in shutting someone up for a stupid, vicious comment.

  14. http://www.yourrights.org.uk/yourrights/right-of-free-expression/criminal-law-restrictions-on-freedom-of-expression/racial-hatred.html
    It is against UK law to incite racial hatred, and the offence may be committed in a public or private place .

    I don’t like it, but that is the law.
    This is our country, and if we are unwilling to challenge our government’s right to pass laws without consulting us, then we are as much to blame as they are. If you don’t like something which is happening, look up how to contact your MP and let them know what you think.
    Simples!

  15. I find that someone punching someone in the cut, using violence, far worse than anything Stacey did.

    This piece contains hard-to-find information concerning this.

    The Times writer David Aaronovitch … tracked down some of the tweets to which Stacey had responded with his most offensive tweets:

    “One, a psychiatric nurse from Leeds, had tweeted Stacey calling him a ‘f****** pr***’. Another, to whom Stacey sent his most violent tweet, had already typed “you must be f****** barmy if you think a greasy little welsh sheep shagger could take on a f****** cockney you silly fat w*****”. This amiable person subsequently offered to come and burn Stacey and his family to death.” To these and similar sentiments Stacey replied with such gems as (to a twitterer somehow racially identifiable) “I ain’t your friend you wog c***. Go and pick some cotton.” …

    I can’t find David Aaronovitch’s original article for some reason.

    I hate racists but have no reason to think Stacey is an actual racist. Saying a few racist slurs, whilst disgusting, are certainly not on the radar of things I find disturbing or abhorrent. And I think people who are running around horrified by a few racist references are more concerned with banging their chest and making sure people know that *they* aren’t racists, than actually caring about actual racism, imo.

    If I somehow twittered Mein Kampf, would I be liable to be jailed?

  16. Freedom of Speech is the most fundamental law of life. Any infringement on speech is slavery. Yes a harsh word but a true analysis.

    When you say a person can’t express their point of view you do several things. 1) you exert control over another human being. and 2) This is the most important, you push the speech underground, it doesn’t go away it just gets hidden.

    I want people to speak freely, I especially want to hear those that spew hate. It lets you know who needs to be watched.

  17. I believe that such a law would be illegal on its face here due to the First Amendment.

    A lot of evil can be done in the name of good, and here’s your proof.

  18. surely calling someone a welsh sheep shagger is incitement to racial hatred then …

    Soon the law will allow prisoners to vote. When will it end. We’re so powerless that even our government is powerless.

  19. “If I somehow twittered Mein Kampf, would I be liable to be jailed?”

    Only if the person you tweeted was
    a) NOT a graduate history student
    b) German of a certain age
    c) British of a certain age..
    d) A jobsworth, aka a “little Hitler”.

  20. If there’s a large prison situated in a small community, the prisoners would be able to elect the mayor.

    This has nothing to do with anyone’s rights. This, along with other things, is part of an effort to dismantle human society.

  21. Phantom –

    “But it should not be illegal to say what he did in any civilized country, one which purports to respect speech rights.”

    Maybe so, but the British ruling class certainly doesn’t respect speech rights. Free speech hasn’t existed here for some decades now. Most people still pretend that we do, but free speech was curtailed in the interests of race and religious relations and there is no liberty to speak freely in this country.

    We used to have such a liberty under the common law principle of “no prior restraint”. We could be prosecuted for something we said after the event, but there was no legal restrictions on what we could prior to any action. Now, there are laws on the statute book making the expression of some views verboten.

    Liam Stacey was found guilty of inciting racial hatred. In reality, the crime is one of sedition against the political order.

  22. Incitement, or shouting fire in a crowded theater, should be , and has long been, illegal.

    But this is neither. I’m genuinely amazed at what I’m reading here.

    Any updates on the woman who ranted on the train and had her child taken from her?

  23. She pleaded not guilty to a racially aggravated public order offence (i.e. sedition against the culturally Marxist state) and will be tried on 11th June.

  24. I view Twitter and Facebook as fishing nets to trap the stupid. As has been shown on here before, the ‘social media’ have been financed by the CIA’s venture capital sector and that wasn’t done for the benefit of humanity. Millions of people willingly provide real-time information on themselves and others: it is the perfect surveillance tool because those being watched are volunteering to be watched. As for comments and opinions, don’t put them on social media. Take a look at this:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-18087379

    – Five men and a 15-year-old youth have been arrested in East Renfrewshire and Glasgow after anti-Semitic remarks were posted on social network site Facebook.

    Almost 50 police officers raided seven addresses after complaints from members of the Jewish community in Giffnock.

    It followed a number of offensive posts on a page entitled: “Welcome to Israel, only kidding you’re in Giffnock.”

    The six people arrested were charged with a breach of the peace with religious and racial aggravations. -

  25. Putting aside the wrong speech laws for a minute…

    What is even the point of posting comments like that on Facebook? There’s a part of me that’s not sorry about the charges.

  26. I view Twitter and Facebook as fishing nets to trap the stupid.

    In that case I’d exercise vigilance if I were you!

  27. Wolfie (petr) – I’m not on Facebook nor Twitter. How about you?

    Btw, have you absorbed your lesson on Mad Marx and the Bankers? Surely you’re not going to tell me that communism and monopolist banking are different?

  28. What is even the point of posting comments like that on Facebook? There’s a part of me that’s not sorry about the charges.

    Phantom – exactly the point!

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