RURAL PAKISTAN IN WARRINGTON…
By David Vance On August 4th, 2012When two cultures clash, this is what happens….
Farzana and Iftikhar Ahmed were killers who murdered their 17-year-old daughter Shafilea because she simply wouldn’t conform to the values of ‘rural Pakistan’ – and then terrorised the rest of their family into a sickening nine-year cover-up.
Last night, as the pair were jailed for life, social services were accused of missing several key warning signs in the run-up to Shafilea’s death. Indeed, the killers were exposed only after Shafilea’s younger sister plucked up the courage to tell how she and her siblings watched them suffocate her in 2003. Mr Justice Roderick Evans said ‘Westernised’ Shafilea simply wanted a normal life but found herself ‘squeezed between two cultures’. He then made a thunderous attack on the morals of the parents standing in front of him at Chester Crown Court. ‘What was it that brought you two, her parents, the people who had given her life, to the point of killing her?’ he asked them. ‘You chose to bring up your family in Warrington but your social and cultural attitudes were those of rural Pakistan.”
But why did the values of “Rural Pakistan” prevail in this family in northern England? And how many more families also exercise such “Rural Pakistan” values? What can we do about it, if anything? Do we accept the occasional “honour killing” as the price of having the multicultural morass so beloved of some? As Islam becomes an even greater aspect of British life, what else can we expect? The answers, of course, will be in my new book, coming in early 2013!
Bear in mind that we are told that the UK needs more of these people because, without them, we won’t survive.
The authorities, frightened of the racism industry, have colluded in the foreign takeover of parts of Britain. Even the BBC has a webpage stating that there are more than 10,000 of these ‘honour’ crimes a year.
But it’s their culture, and we are all supposed to respect multiculturalism.
That islam is absolutely incompatible with what we indigenous Britons in the UK would wish our society to be is unarguable, but why are muslims here?
—Barbara Lerner Spectre, IBA-News, 2010
And who is Barbara Lerner Spectre? She’s an arch-Zionst so she wouldn’t support the imprtation into Israel of the pestilence which she, as part of her purpose, is introducing into white, European nations.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_Lerner_Spectre
I could be wrong but sense that a landmark precedent has been set here.
Muslim, Hindu and Sikh parents will surely think twice before subjecting their daughters to the sort of vile abuse suffered by Shafilea before her death.
“Muslim, Hindu and Sikh parents will surely think twice before subjecting their daughters to the sort of vile abuse suffered by Shafilea before her death.”
I agree Richard, but British governments and nobly minded, learned social engineers have tied themselves to Titanic I – multiculturalism grafted onto a white homogenous culture can work;
and Titanic II,
All cultures and religions (except Christianity -spit!) are of equal value, and must be celebrated as such.
It is like inviting the world to live under your roof, then watching the house fall down…
I hadn’t realised before reading the BBC news report, which of course doesn’t mention his Muslim faith, that Iftikhar Ahmed was a bigamist who should probably have been imprisoned or deported 26 years ago.
It seems that bigamy is another common crime amongst the ‘community’ and should probably be added to the (short) list of risk factors for people who might be inclined to kill their children.
Sir Arfur,
I understood that he had divorced his first (Danish) wife after being pressured into marrying his cousin?
Beg your pardon, No he hadn’t divorced his first wife.
Off Topic I know, but just heard the stupidest BBC comment after Mo Farah’s magnificent win in the 10k metres….
“Mo Farah has taken on the Africans and shown them how to do it!”
This child was badly let down by her school, the social services and the police. There were plenty of signals before she was murdered.
Mo Farah is not British and never will be regardless of his passport.
“Mo Farah is not British and never will be regardless of his passport.”
Tell it to the pigeons
Allan,
Mo Farah is genetically African. From what I have seen and read of him, he is a good Muslim man and his Foundation does very good work.
The point is that we are looking to immigration as a source of labour and even athletic talent.
It is the grafting of multiculturalism onto our ancient white British culture (with all its faults) which doesn’t work for me. I just cannot see these admittedly fine athletes as truly representative of my country.
Agit8ed,
“Mo Farah is genetically African.”
So are you.
And I’m afraid given your stance on evolution you’re not really the one to be telling people about genetics.
Frank,
“So are you.”
No I ain’t!
That is such a dumb comment, Frank.
According to evolutionary theory we originated in Africa, but after thousands of years of separate religious and cultural development, we are all quite different.
I don’t read of many “African Europeans” hankering to get back to their roots, do you?
My roots are British, not Bantu.
Agit8ed,
“No I ain’t!”
Sure you are. You, Allan and Mo Farah are all genetically related to the same African woman. You also have a common ancestor that lived much more recently, probably between 2,000 to 5,000 years ago.
You’re welcome.
Well done to team GB (or team DNA as you would seemingly prefer).
Humanity is different, and evolved to be different hence the existence of races. To dispute the existence of races of man is to dispute evolution. Black Africans evolved to live in sub-Saharan Africa where climate provided all that was needed to survive and, most importantly, there was no winter therefore no period without food.
The people who lived in the temperate zones had (and have) winters so had to develop the intelligence to enable them to survive. Have a look the shape of a skull of whites or Chinese – highly developed frontal lobes in line with the jaw. yet the skulls of Africans have undeveloped frontal lobes well behind the line of the jaw. NB have a look – there are plenty of them around. Why are the frontal lobes so highly developed in whites and north Asians (Japanese, Koreans, Chinese)?
http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/bb/kinser/Structure1.html
- Frontal Lobe- associated with reasoning, planning, parts of speech, movement, emotions, and problem solving -
Planning and problem solving abilities had to evolve in populations where food was not available all year round otherwise these populations would have starved to death. We are the descendants of these populations who evolved to survive winters and Africans are not. That is why technology was developed by whites and orientals and not by Africans.
Allan,
Gosh, and there I was thinking that we all belonged to something called the human race.
It seems I was mistaken. Take my next-door neighbour and me.
I’m tallish, of slim build, with black hair and blue eyes. I’m also highly intelligent.
She, on the other hand, is rather dim and dumpy. She has fair hair and green eyes. Her skin colour is also a little lighter than mine.
Clearly we belong to different races.
“Planning and problem solving abilities had to evolve in populations where food was not available all year round otherwise these populations would have starved to death.”
What a crock of shit. Planning, problem solving abilities and technology were already apparent by the time of the stone age and the hunter gatherers. Everybody has a brain that evolved on the savannah.
As for technology that did not and does not spread genetically, but the reason you are here to talk about it is most likely because early humans (Africans, Allan!) migrated out of Africa bringing a technology, fire, that Neanderthals didn’t have.
The stone age didn’t end when a new kind of brain arose, either, because a new kind of brain didn’t arise. It ended when a new idea arose.
‘All cultures and religions (except Christianity -spit!) are of equal value, and must be celebrated as such.
It is like inviting the world to live under your roof, then watching the house fall down…’
‘“Mo Farah has taken on the Africans and shown them how to do it!”’
‘No I ain’t!’
‘Mo Farah is not British and never will be regardless of his passport.’
‘My roots are British, not Bantu.’
It’s threads like this one that really piss me off about this site. Thank goodness at least some people (Frank, Richard) have some sense…
Seimi,
I don’t try to piss people off.
Frank in my eyes made a daft comment. Nations and cultures and religions ARE different.
Okay, I should have said that Mo Farah is of African background -Somalian to be specific. That’s why I thought the BBC comment was stupid.
Also, I value my Englishness and the history of the country I grew up in, just as many of the various Irish factions on ATW obviously value theirs.
Frank’s clever remark that we are all African is clearly nonsense. Try telling that to the African Americans, the Afro Caribbean community, and see what kind of a response you get.
Agit8ed,
“Frank in my eyes made a daft comment. Nations and cultures and religions ARE different.”
But not genetically different, which is what you said. You said this guy was genetically African. I simply pointed out that you are too. This is simply a fact and if you don’t like it, don’t bring up genetics. Or if it makes you feel better to call facts ‘daft’, by all means help yourself.
“Okay, I should have said that Mo Farah is of African background -Somalian to be specific.”
That would have been a slightly less stupid remark from you, but he’s of British background too and (I assume) a British citizen, and yes given the length of time he and his family have been here he’s culturally British too. For example the staringly obvious fact that he is on Team GB should be a large clue to anyone who is not in denial.
While we’re at it, to the topic of the thread. Some authoritarian, disciplinarian, monocultural conservatives kill a liberal multicultural woman, and it’s the fault of liberals and multiculturalists? Sorry, no.
And it’s also obvious that those whose first instinct on hearing of one of these killings is to complain of “multiculturalism”, don’t give a shit about the victim. They don’t care that she’s dead, they’d just rather she died somewhere else. Somewhere her killers would not be brought to justice.
The parents didn’t want her in contact with western culture, and neither do you.
Screw what she wanted.
“And it’s also obvious that those whose first instinct on hearing of one of these killings is to complain of “multiculturalism”, don’t give a shit about the victim. They don’t care that she’s dead, they’d just rather she died somewhere else. Somewhere her killers would not be brought to justice.
The parents didn’t want her in contact with western culture, and neither do you.
Screw what she wanted.”
Well Frankie,
Maybe, just maybe,
If our WHITE politicians had made it clear from the beginning that if you choose to live in Britain, you abide by British laws and values.
That you can’t live here and practice fgm, honour killings, arranged non consensual marriages, threatening muslim writers like Salman Rushdie, or preaching hatred of Gays, our Western way of life or going off to learn how to become a better terrorist.
If British law had been upheld from the outset we would not be facing these problems to the same extent.
Do you remember me saying I’d read a book called the Imam’s Daughter? I pushed it quite a few times on ATW.
I think Harri? was the only one who ever said he would try to read it.
Have you read The Reluctant Fundamentalist, or The Bookseller of Kabul??
You will not find one single comment where I have said I hate immigrants. Where I have not reasonably pointed out things in their cultures are at variance with our own and are either barbaric or anti western? I will say it again, I don’ty blame people for coming to live here, but it has happened without consultation, and it is proving detrimental to our own culture. Olympic gold medals not withstanding.
Of course I care about that girl. I care about anyone who suffers cultural or religious bigotry -including Irish people.
My point is that multiculturalism has been grafted onto our own historical culture, and it is US who are being asked to change; not those who have chosen to or have the option of living elsewhere.
The tragedy of Shafilea is that she was born into a culture which didn’t afford her the “human rights” that some here go on about. That she was born into a culture in which women are so undervalued that their menfolk think it is okay to kill them when they won’t do what they are told.
And she was brought up in a culture which didn’t have the balls to stand up for their own values, but caved into multicultural respect of different values; regardless of what happened to Shafilea.
Anyway Frankie, tell us what kind of ethnic community YOU have chosen to live in?
Agit8ed,
Thank you for the book recommendations – all sound worth a read, and all have been added to the pile.
The rest is pretty much all fine, except:
” it is US who are being asked to change”
Really? Get a grip. Are you being asked to tolerate honor killings? Are you being asked to convert to Islam? Are you the victim here? No you’re not.
“And she was brought up in a culture which didn’t have the balls to stand up for their own values, but caved into multicultural respect of different values; regardless of what happened to Shafilea.”
The problem is *too much* respect. Sure it is. If this woman were still alive, she’d be welcomed with open arms and ‘respected’, would she? Possibly a little too much. Do you think that the authorities failed in investigation because they respected this woman too much?
Who are these people that are supposedly going around saying honor killings are OK and shouldn’t be prosecuted, should in fact be tolerated as just another culture to be respected? I haven’t heard of any.
I’ve heard of plenty saying Paki go home, though. I imagine such people wouldn’t be all that arsed to investigate the killing of one, still less a woman. I imagine that many of them are in the police force and criminal justice system, the same one that has let women *of all cultures* down terribly where it comes to domestic abuse of all kinds, and is ill suited to address it in the first place.
As for your own culture, don’t kid yourself. It’s better, yes. But that’s a bit like boasting about being the tallest of the seven dwarves. It hasn’t been that much better, and not for that long.
The fact is that successive British governments have allowed ethnic communities to live side by side with our British traditions and laws.
It is the fear of being seen as judgmental that has brought us to the point where our own Archbishop of Canterbury can say we will have to incorporate certain aspects of Shari’ah law, or that Police are told that throwing shoes is an acceptable Islamic way of showing disapproval, or that those issuing a fatwa on Salman Rushdie..
“And from the British — who stood up to Adolf Hitler, who in a moment of jingoistic fury would send their aging fleet halfway around the world to recapture an island of sheep claimed by generals from Argentina — one would expect even more outrage.
Or from France, Germany, Italy, all of those European countries we consider to be part of the enlightened “democratic” West for whom we fought against the Nazi horde so they could be “free” — could we not expect at least a trifle of support for Mr. Rushdie?”
http://www.atheists.org/content/lessons-satanic-verses
And as for my own culture..
Well with all its faults it is MY culture and MY history.
Let me ask you the question again, Frankie.
Bearing in mind your noble sentiments and presumed embrace of ALL cultures, WHICH community have you chosen to live amongst to demonstrate your acceptance and appreciation of cultural diversity? How many Asians, Muslims, Eastern Europeans or Afro Caribbeans regularly visit Chez O’Dwyer??
“The fact is that successive British governments have allowed ethnic communities to live side by side with our British traditions and laws.”
Which ‘ethnic community’ is allowed to break the law? Be specific, which ‘community’, which law?
“WHICH community have you chosen to live amongst to demonstrate your acceptance and appreciation of cultural diversity?”
Who in the hell picks a ‘community’ to ‘live amongst’? What kind of fubar thought process and worldview is behind that question?
” How many Asians, Muslims, Eastern Europeans or Afro Caribbeans regularly visit Chez O’Dwyer??”
It may have escaped your notice but since I’m an immigrant and a member of a minority ‘community’ myself I see an ‘ethnic’ every day in the mirror. And not that it’s really any of your business but I’ve got friends that are Sikh, Muslim, Hindu, Christian, Atheist, Aussie, Saffer, Irish, English, Scottish, Russian, American, Turkish, Brazilian, Norwegian, Belgian and East European. I had to think about that because a lot of these I would just consider British/English – because they were born here, act English and have English accents, and most of their cultural touchpoints are English. Your way of thinking about this is so bizarre to me that I had to check what ‘Afro-Carribean’ actually meant. I have a friend whose family would hail from St Lucia, but to me he’s never seemed anything other than British.
I even know somebody from Norfolk and what with their strange customs and the way they might look at you, you can’t get much more tolerant than that. :p
“Who are these people that are supposedly going around saying honor killings are OK and shouldn’t be prosecuted, should in fact be tolerated as just another culture to be respected? I haven’t heard of any. ”
You think the Government is going to admit that they don’t pursue crimes against the person or murder, because they don’t want to offend “cultural sensibilities?”
Get a grip, Frankie!
You think that many white British people DEMAND an investigation into dodgy Police behaviour involving WHITE British people?
Get a grip O’Dwyer.
Do you think many professional people demanded an investigation into the death of Dr David Kelly??
Come on man.
Wise up!
If we didn’t do it for those folk, we aren’t going to do it for a poor Muslim girl whose only crime was that she wanted a different life for herself..
Sometimes I think you talk out of your arse, Frank.
Agit8ed,
Put down the crack pipe and try that again.
“It may have escaped your notice but since I’m an immigrant and a member of a minority ‘community’ myself I see an ‘ethnic’ every day in the mirror.”
Ballcocks O’Dwyer!
You’re a white, Irish, nondescript European of no fixed abode; probably living a few hundred miles from being next door to my favourite Irish folk group, The Fureys.
The only way you’d be classified as different on the mainland is in how you slurp your Murphy’s or Guinness, or whatever it is you like to drink! It would be the opening of your mouth that might stereotype you; not the colour of your skin!!
“Your way of thinking about this is so bizarre to me that I had to check what ‘Afro-Carribean’ actually meant”
I lived in an area with a large Afro Caribbean community. I know what it means. You are just exposing your provincial naivety.
Go live in an inner city area like say Bradford, for a twelvemonth. Take a copy of “The Imam’s Daughter” with you to a local Muslim Book Appreciation Society.
Let us know how you get on…………..
My Church tells me that even smoking Woodbines through my arse is a sin…..
“Christian, Atheist, Aussie, Saffer, Irish, English, Scottish, Russian, American, Turkish, Brazilian, Norwegian, Belgian and East European. I had to think about that because a lot of these I would just consider British/English – because they were born here,”
In other words, by far the most of them are of white European descent, and no amount of “fancy names” can change that..
Tell me, do they insist on conversing in their native tongue, or do they find it easier to use Her Majesty’s Irish Gaelic??
“by far the most of them are of white European descent”
Of course they are since by far the most people here are white. (Though you of course presume that when I say English, that means they’re all white, and you’re wrong about that)
You asked me about my friend’s culture and religion, as if it was any of your damn business – but then when I tell you, it turns out you’re actually most interested in their color.
Why don’t you either skip the racist bollocks, or quit pretending you’re not a racist.
I think Mo Farrah is more British than Somali.
After all he didn’t try to abduct the sailing team during the opening ceremony.
“You asked me about my friend’s culture and religion, as if it was any of your damn business – but then when I tell you, it turns out you’re actually most interested in their color.
Why don’t you either skip the racist bollocks, or quit pretending you’re not a racist.”
For Goodness Sake Frank!
“You asked me about my friend’s culture and religion, as if it was any of your damn business – but then when I tell you…”
But you presume it’s YOUR DAMN BUSINESS to tell me
“Why don’t you either skip the racist bollocks, or quit pretending you’re not a racist.”
Where’d you get that from?
Why do you assume I’m racist?
I’ve already made it very clear on this site that I was in the Merchant Navy, travelled extensively in Europe, lived with Jewish people in Israel (Gasp!) worked with minority groups in this country, and I STILL don’t embrace the multicultural dream.
Shock! Horror!!
My feeling is that YOU embrace it because you see yourself as an intelligent, educated, liberal man of the world, who believes in relative morality, and your ability to appreciate DIFFERENCE.
So tell me again,
What experience do you have of living in a neighbourhood where the majority are of a completely different non Western culture, and perhaps exhibit some hostility to your world view and cultural practices?. Do you live in somewhere like Birmingham, Wolverhampton, Bradford, London maybe?
Come on Frank, it ain’t rocket science, and believe it or not, I’m not out to trip you up.
I have “Guardianista” reading family members who have the same high view of other cultural groups, but have NEVER lived amongst them. I HAVE lived and worked in an area like that.
It’s not a matter of racism, it’s a matter of appreciating and evaluating DIFFERENT VALUES.
I thought objectivity and scientific evaluation is what you evolutionists are into.
We have to make allowancs for agit8ed. He is obviously still celebrating his good health news by knocking back a few and then posting unintelligable nonsense on ATW
“Why do you assume I’m racist?”
I don’t assume it, I just read what you write and its constant attempts to drag everything back to color.
Yes I know you object to Allan’s overtly racist stuff (one of the few here who do), but you’re actually saying much the same stuff. Not quite as obsessed with it as he is, but then who is.
“It’s not a matter of racism, it’s a matter of appreciating and evaluating DIFFERENT VALUES.”
If it were all about values and culture you wouldn’t be harping on about whether someone was genetically african or constantly wail about ‘white’ culture vs non-white. Nor would you claim that I couldn’t possibly be a member of an ethnic minority because I’m white.
“My feeling is that YOU embrace [the multicultural dream]”
I don’t embrace any such thing, and what you call the multicultural dream is largely a strawman of your own imagining in the first place. I have no compunction about saying which cultures I find better than others, but nor do I see why acceptance of any culture is a package deal. The fact that I think some aspects of a culture are bad doesn’t mean that I think all of them are, and the fact that I think some cultures are worse than others doesn’t mean that I think that only one culture is any good.
My position is similar to Aileens, do what you want, it’s none of my business as long as it doesn’t break the law.
Actually you blunt Irish harpoon, I don’t drag it back to colour, I drag it back to culture…
Here have a look at this,
“Aileen,
The gentle voice of reason and common sense!
I had four years in Wolverhampton, and worked with teenagers in care, Rastafarians, and had occasional run ins with drug dealers and violent people.
I would be the first to say that it is not necessarily the ethnic individual that causes tension. If they share similar values to you, believe in working and education and fair play there is no problem.
It is when you encounter groups of people. People who force you off the pavement, or use their size and strength to intimidate.
Or when you walk through the streets of your town and feel out of place because all the people are wearing non European clothes and talking in a foreign language. That is the reality of multiculturalism in this country.
The States is different. They have been a multicultural melting pot from early on in their history. But I hope no one would deny that they too have serious and growing problems.
I find it amazing that feminists in our country do not speak out strongly against the ill treatment of women in some cultures here in Britain; or that few Gays seem to lobby parliament about some of the vile and intolerant language spoken by some Muslim extremist groups.
I find very few supporters of multiculturalism who have either CHOSEN to live in a culturally different community, or even have neighbours from ethnic backgrounds.
It may well be a generational thing. Younger people do not seem to be as bothered by the changes as old farts like myself.
However, I still see no great rush to embrace the values and customs of our ethnic communities by young white British people. As I have said before Man (whatever his origin) is tribal by nature.”
” I have no compunction about saying which cultures I find better than others, but nor do I see why acceptance of any culture is a package deal. ”
So go on O’Dwyer,
(An Irish derivative of a well known Kalahari Bushmen’s name if ever I saw one;)
HAVE no compunction and TELL us which cultures you find better than others, even without the package deals!
I am AGOG with anticipation.
” it’s none of my business as long as it doesn’t break the law.”
WHOSE law, O’Dwyer?
I have been open and honest about my experiences, and my belief that people should be free to practice their own culture in their own country.
I am unashamedly grateful to have been born into a country and culture which has given so much to the world, and to whom the rest of the world seems to want to come to.
What are YOU trying to say O’Dwyer? That my country and the rest of the Western world haven’t achieved anything of value, medically, scientifically, technologically or culturally?!
Are you trying to say that my rejection of multiculturalism is on the basis of colour?
I like to be amongst my own kind and where my own culture is respected and valued.
Why is that Racist?
“I don’t drag it back to colour, I drag it back to culture…”
“I still see no great rush to embrace the values and customs of our ethnic communities by young white British people”
Are there no young British people that aren’t white?
There are young British (are we talking English/Scottish/ Welsh or
Northern Irish??) people who are not white, but embrace White British values.
They serve in the military.
They work hard at school or college. We share the same values.
I accept them.
I admire them.
But I still can’t accept them as English/Scottish/ Welsh or Northern Irish, because they are NOT a continuation of the Great Britain United Kingdom I grew up in. That is for future generations to resolve.
All my heroes and influential people were white. I am descended from a white/mongrel/Viking/Celtic/Anglo Saxon race which shaped and built the country I grew up in.
That ain’t racist, that’s FACT.
“All my heroes and influential people were white. I am descended from a white/mongrel/Viking/Celtic/Anglo Saxon race which shaped and built the country I grew up in.”
So in the end it’s not really about culture, is it? It’s about color and race.
“That ain’t racist”
Yes it is – saying you can’t accept someone as being of your nation because they’re of the wrong race is racist. What the hell is racist if that isn’t?
It’s also factually and morally wrong. I’m white but I’m not British. But apparently could be if I chose according to your definition above, while somebody who wasn’t white but with a more British cultural background than me and that was actually born here or even had a white British parent couldn’t. It’s nuts.
Frankie,
Are the Scots/Welsh/Irish and English HISTORICALLY white or not?
Are Nigerians/Somalians/Kenyans and Sudanese HISTORICALLY black or not?
STOP splitting hairs.
Do all of the above have their own culture or not?
YES, they bloody well DO.
That’s part of why SOME Irish hate us English. It’s in their cultural history.
Multiculturalism is a modern phenomena.
Otherwise, why the HELL were African people enslaved, and WHY did the white people who were involved in that practice develop guilty consciences?
The Arab nations have never renounced slavery.
You have lost the argument.
You have tried to prove I am racist, and you have failed.
I have shown that my culture stretches back over a thousand years, and all my ancestors were white. That is not racist, it’s a matter of fact.
You are white, but in my eyes you could never be British because we don’t want you.
I would rather have someone like Shafilea and see her grow up to make a success of her life. You just annoy me.
Get ye back to your mists and bogs and peat, and languish there.
“You have tried to prove I am racist”
I just let you talk. You cannot explain your position without color and that speaks for itself.
“You are white, but in my eyes you could never be British because we don’t want you.”
You and the voices in your head.
“I would rather have someone like Shafilea and see her grow up to make a success of her life”
As long as she didn’t want to go around saying she was British. Wrong color.
“You just annoy me.”
I must be a very bad person.
Off for a shower after reading agit’s comments.
Oh dear. I think Agit8ed is getting a touch of the LU syndrome
“I just let you talk. You cannot explain your position without color and that speaks for itself.”
Of course I can’t explain my position without colour! My cultural history is of white English/British people.
Not bad Frank,
Just annoying in a Guardianista kind of way.
You honestly believe you can explain the differences of cultural and national history in the world without mentioning colour??
I thought evolution said something about adaptation to climate and diet.
Petr,
I wondered when the little self styled Communist poodle would put in an appearance.
Mind you don’t drown in that shower now.
Agi
I am struggling to understand what you are trying to say here.
On particular what your problem is with the remark about Mo Farah.
Isn’t he British and not African?
He is ethnically Somalian/African, but as he has explained himslef, his formative and cultural experiences are British. This country is where he identifies with and where he feels at home. He speaks English and is more atuned with British references and lifestyles so as far as I am concerned that makes him British.
Colm
I don’t get the “ethnically African” bit. African isn’t an ethnicity.
Bit like ” ethnically British”. That isn’t white unless pure bred white French people are “ethnically British” despite not being British at all.
Agi
My cultural history is of Ulster British. They happen to be white too but that is irrelevant in terms of culture – very relevant in terms of needing to keep out of the sun but little else.
Frank is so PC that there must be a name for such a disease. Humans and particularly the human brain has diversified for tens of thousands of years yet I read this:
Frank ODwyer, on August 4th, 2012 at 11:10 pm Said:
Agit8ed,
Sure you are. You, Allan and Mo Farah are all genetically related to the same African woman. You also have a common ancestor that lived much more recently, probably between 2,000 to 5,000 years ago. -
That’s no better than creationism.
Ooops – Humans ….’have’