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THE “KANGAROO COURT”

By ATWadmin On February 12th, 2008

I’ve covered this over at Biased BBC but there is another angle I want to talk about. I refer to the decision taken by the US to bring the six suspected Jihadi, currently interned at Guantanamo Bay, to trial for their role in the horrific events that culminated on 9/11. If these six are found guilty, the death penalty may await them (I hope it does)

Anyway, the left-wing MSM has gone into overdrive at the idea that Islamic terrorists may end up being found guilty and then – horror of horrors – paying for their evil with their lives. For YEARS all we have heard from the left is how UNFAIR it is that those in Gitmo are denied a trial. Now they are being given a trial, it’s not the right sort of trial. And even if was the OJ  jury itself that was drafted in to hear the evidence, since there might even still be an outside chance that they might find them guilty, the death penalty is judged by the left as too harsh.

Listen, we’ve watched what happened to all those thousands of innocents on 9/11, and the death penalty was unilaterally imposed on them that day, they had no say, no recourse to any court. Justice must be  done but when we read hysterical headlines like this, it’s clear to me that the left no longer understand what justice means. In the war on terror, the MSM should be on OUR SIDE, but in fact they are at best neutral, and seem much more concerned about the Jihadi than the families of those who perished on that dreadful day. 

36 Responses to “THE “KANGAROO COURT””

  1. ‘In the final years of the Bush presidency the military are determined to make somebody pay’.

    That sentence was in the attached video on telegraph tv, which sums up the attitude of the msm. Somebody will pay – doesn’t matter who.

    A very fair and just criticism of the msm. Well spotted. I note even HYS is full of supporters of the msm view no matter where you look.

    Bottom line 2,973 people dead which includes 8 children.

  2. Some thoughts: If the mainstream media is holding the government to follow the law and insure legal safeguards then the mainstream media is on "our side" as procedural and substantive rights of the accused are the bedrock of our system of justice.

    We are only trying six thus far out of the hundreds detained, and after years of confusion. Not a great percentage or sense of urgency. Of course, suddenly trying them in an election year seems even to this jaded soul a tad staged.

    There is no indication that the waterboarding technique on at least one of the defendants resulted in a confession. The Court will I presume have the ability to toss out said confession as coerced. At the very least any conviction based on that confession will always be tainted. There is no indication that a confession could have been obtained without such efforts, or that the accused could not have been convicted without it. It gives victim status to an almost certain criminal -what a propoganda blunder.

    Finally, the most infuriating thing is that I would happily strangle any participant or conspirator of the 9/11 attack with my bare hands. I am very concerned that the prosecution of likely (if not certain) bad actors here will undermine the real sense of justice that should have been imposed on the terrorists involved in those attacks.

  3. Good comment Mahons.

    However, there are many on the left who regard Guantanano with more horror than 9/11. They would be quite happy to see it closed down and all its prisoners released, in the name of "justice" naturally.

  4. These poor men, I can hardly bear it brought to justice at last. The gall of it in American election year horror of horrors. What should happen in this liberal ‘human rights’ trash mentality of the msm is that the six should be given a medal for endurance in such horrific surroundings and then the Brits will give them a free council flat…just about par for the course.

  5. Peter,

    When you say that there are many on the left who regard Guantanano with more horror than 9/11, can you tell me who that is?

  6. Well said, Mahons.

  7. Peter – well obviously 9/11 was a more horrible event, yet Gitmo is a horrible precedent. I would be happy to see Gitmo closed down (it has been a propoganda landmine for the terrorists) and its occupants tried fairly or released. I agree with the late COngressman Lantos who took some folks to task for downplaying 9/11 and overplaying Gitmo, but that doesn’t mean Gitmo doesn’t need to be fixed.

    DAD -human rights was among the many justifications offered by the right for intervention in Iraq (not the primary one of course, which proved more elusive). The thing is that fundamental legal rights should be guaranteed to all, including terrorists, or else we help them achieve their objective by abandoning out system.

  8. it’s clear to me that the left no longer understand what justice means.

    i have little to add to mahons excellent comments other that to say the it is quite clear that the reverse is closer to the truth. if we consider our system of justice to be a cornerstone of western society then this entire debacle is a gross deviation from the accepted norms.

    the MSM should be on OUR SIDE, but in fact they are at best neutral, and seem much more concerned about the Jihadi than the families of those who perished on that dreadful day.

    it is typical of rightworld to assume that all the victims of 9/11 accept their doctrines, policies and positions on this issue. it is completely untrue and many families and others involved (like firefighters) have grave reservations on many subjects including the modes of justice and the major discrepancies, ommissions and conflicts of interest that plague the official report of that dreadful day.

    there are many on the left who regard Guantanano with more horror than 9/11. They would be quite happy to see it closed down and all its prisoners released, in the name of "justice" naturally.

    if the cases are solid and not based on dubious evidence, then there should be nothing to fear from normal justice mechanisms. this screams very loudly that there is a need to control the process. those screams will be heard in afghanistan, iraq and all over the world.

  9. The first sentence of my 3rd paragraph should had read there is no indication that the waterboarding technique used on at least one of the six resulted in a confession that could have been obtained by other means.

  10. Alan

    Perhaps I should have said that there are many on the left who take a "so what?" attitude to 9/11, regarding it as no more than the USA getting its well-deserved come-uppance.

  11. If we consider our system of justice to be a cornerstone of western society then this entire debacle is a gross deviation from the accepted norms.

    I’m not sure it’s a "gross deviation from the accepted norms", is it Mahons? Weren’t such tribunals used by Washington, Lincoln & Roosevelt?

  12. Eagle: Not this way.

  13. Perhaps I should have said that there are many on the left who take a "so what?" attitude to 9/11, regarding it as no more than the USA getting its well-deserved come-uppance.

    and for defense contractors and their political handmaidens its christmas everyday. the US economy has been tied to the military since world war two. it was not so much a "well deserved come-uppance" as it was a complete inevitability.

  14. Daytripper – It was a terrorist attack on civilans, plain and simple. You may feel it was a well deserved come-uppance, and it is your right to hold such a vile opinion. It is our right to recall that you hold it.

  15. Mahons,

    It was a terrorist attack on civilans.

    What about the attack on the Pentagon? I would be interested in hearing from folks (especially Chris Gaskin) on whether that was a legitimate military target.

  16. Alan: Although the Pentagon was indeed a military structure, I presume you’ll agree that the plane used in the attack upon it was a civilan one. One of my enduring memories of the 9/11 victims is of a very young girl on that particular plane traveling alone, I think she might have been eight years old. She loved Tweetie Bird and had all sorts of Tweetie Bird dolls and posters in her room (which of course was empty when I watched her devastated parents being interviewed). She was traveling on a special school-related trip.

    I would also reject the idea that a military institution is necessarily a legitimate military target. Military personnel take a certain degree of risk that is higher than the average citizen, but targeting them is not necessarily legitimate because of that assumption of risk.

  17. "The thing is that fundamental legal rights should be guaranteed to all, including terrorists, or else we help them achieve their objective by abandoning out system".

    I wish as much goddamn emphasis was placed by so many shrill voices out there in the msm and the liberal justice system on pursuing actual.justice. for. victims and making it paramount. Instead, as it so often is, ostensibly shaped to cater for criminals and terrorists in some wonderfully scripted definition of our beloved ‘justice system’. Then, rarely do we hear anywhere near the indignation about the failures of the modern justice system. But at that point we are reminded that it is ‘not perfect’.

    Well if that’s the case then why do we suddenly seek that perfection chasing after terrorists rights?

    "we help them achieve their objective by abandoning out system"

    Wasn’t it Chemical Ali who laughed in the face of our tough human rights system when determining whether or not to gas the Kurds? But apparently the Americans are worse.

  18. And i mean you Mahons. You told me our justice system was not perfect. And here we have your comments lauded as "excellent". So if its not perfect then why are you and others so worried about how it is perceived when it comes to terrorists? Id love to know. Because it seems to me our system can be entirely imperfect on other issues. Would that I felt even a small % of victims received the kind of concern shown towards these ‘men’.

  19. Alison: Shrill? My voice is baritone, not quite Barry White, but I’ve been told it is almost as sexy.

    I have no desire to cater to terrorists, and I’d like them pursued to the ends of the earth. I am not asking for perfect justice, merely a chance of justice – and a fair one at that. Nurenmburg demonstrated that extraordinary judicial hearings can and should be utilized in specific limited circumstances.

  20. Alsion – surely you didn’t need me to advise you our legal system was not perfect. As for the perceptive few who might agree with me and offer kind words, what would you have me do? There will certainly be those who disagree with me and suggest my comments are anything but excellent (damn their eyes).

    Merely by suggesting these people are entitled to fair trials is not an attempt to elevate them and certainly not to diminish the victims.

  21. Alison,
    "Wasn’t it Chemical Ali who laughed in the face of our tough human rights system when determining whether or not to gas the Kurds?"

    No I think he was laughing at the fact he had all these Bell 214ST helicopters he bought from the Americans to drop the gas on the Kurds Iraq.

    He then laughed some more when after the massacre sweeping sanctions were unanimously passed by the US Senate that would have denied Iraq access to most US technology,

    Why did he laugh? Because the White House promptly killed that measure.

    But then again who would be surprised considering good old Donald Rumsfeld was actually in Iraq a few years earlier wheeling and dealing on the very day the world was hearing that Iraq was using mustard gas and nerve agents on Iranian soldiers.

    No word from Donald or the US then. It’s okay if these guys gas Iranians. There has been a lot of laughter going around alright.

  22. Thanks for telling me you have a sexy voice I’ll enjoy reading your comments with the Barry White voice and music thought in my head. You’ve ruined it now. I won’t ever be able to take your more serious comments seriously ever again 😉

    I didn’t mean you actually –

    ‘shrill’ would be the clamour for justice eminating from the media and various civil liberties morons who place such inordinate importance on our systems future existence – all riding on the back of some grimy asshole terrorists.

    You did touch on that apparent importance in your comment and there is the issue for me. Civil liberties are more important for terrorists – the future of our system depends on it. Oh the tragedy!

    Well. Our system is imperfect as you told me. And so it goes.

    So, um, bad luck boys/terrorists/freedom fighters (delete as appropriate).

    Noone worries that ordinary people every day minding their own business are equally entitled to justice. They generate, what, 3 or 4 lines from Amnesty, the msm and co? Do any of the people who leapt to the deaths on 9/11 feature in their civil liberties rationales?

    So seriously why should i give a flying futurama if another couple of bozos are caught up in it. Cannot say i’ll be overly concerned.

  23. Alison: I would suggest you take me as seriously as my daughter last night while I was feeding her her bottle in the wee wee hours. Just as I complimented her on being a beautiful baby she let rip a thunderous fart that would have made a Viking proud.

  24. You may feel it was a well deserved come-uppance, and it is your right to hold such a vile opinion. It is our right to recall that you hold it.

    thats not what i said mahons. what i am saying is that your state invites it. it could even be said encourage it. not you, or any other normal bod on the street. your state and its apparatus. it is geared towards militarism, so therefore conflict is simply inevitable.

    i may have sounded flippant, but i had no intention of alluding to some sort of celebration of such events. far from it. i just will not be led to believe that those who benefitted most are in some way victims of the same events.

  25. DT – I’ll have to disagree with your assessment that our nation invited or encouraged an attack on its civilians. That seems to me to be an opinion not without its advocates in certain circles. And I presume you would disagree with me in turn if I told you what I thought of such advocates.

  26. Tripper

    Would you say Saddam invited or encouraged attacks on innocent Iraqis? He made his own decisions and danced with the devil and all that.

  27. mahons, alison.

    in both cases i think its worth understanding that neither really gives much thought to the plight of civilians in such circumstances. mere collateral.

  28. And I presume you would disagree with me in turn if I told you what I thought of such advocates.

    and simple as it is to deride everyone one who has doubts about the official line for 9/11 its worth reminding yourself that the state also lacks confidence in its own "theory", otherwise there would be no need for kangaroo courts.

  29. Mahons,

    What is the difference between the proposed military tribunals and those employed in the past? I thought Nuremberg was a military tribunal, albeit an international military tribunal. No?

  30. DT – I know you disagree with the "official" verdict of what happended, but that is a discussion you can have over on a Ron Paul website for all I care.

    I am not deriding the position of people disagreeing with the "official" version, who has time? It is like arguing with folks who think the moon landings were staged or the CIA killed Kurt Cobain.

    My opinions of people who think the government encouraged or invited the attacks and who think it was "well-deserved" are better left unsaid, given the civility the host of this site would prefer.

  31. Eagle: Great question. Somehow I doubt George Washington had Major Andre waterboarded (of course the threat to send him to Albany was worse). Frankly your question is too good for a mere comment and I will post my views on same later this week if possible. The use of military tribunals is not unknown and obviously Lincoln used them and they were used during the 2nd World War. But the use was different and the distinctions that need to be made need more review from me before I set out my response.

  32. Hi David, sorry this is basically OT but can you guys believe that Pickled Politics thinks the BBC coverage was awful — because they were too right wing! They attack the bbc their sensationalist and right wing ways regarding the sharia debate! I left a comment but I don’t think I’ll be in a hurry to check back

    http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1703

  33. I am not deriding the position of people disagreeing with the "official" version, who has time? It is like arguing with folks who think the moon landings were staged or the CIA killed Kurt Cobain.

    thats an easy position to take though. when you collectivise those who have doubt and lump genuine concerns with those who chose to belive anything and everything. ive seen it all over the place. some people even have a theory that no planes hit anything (i shit you not), so therefore all doubters believe no planes hit anything, and they are all equally mad. nevermind that hundreds of thousands of people have grave doubts and that they transcend race, class and political boundries. nope they are all completely bonkers.

    whats really bonkers is that most people dont know, and like you dont want to know, that it has actually done it before*.

    * that is the murder of western civilians by state actors and intelligence units through deliberate acts of terror, with the purpose of undermining political opposition and creating a "strategy of tension".

    Once you realise that uncomfortable fact (not theory) then it is not hard to take the ropey official line and see it in a whole different light.

  34. DT – I can distinguish between degrees of madness – those who think the planes never struck the buildings and those who have other versions of events. Once again I believe people are free to offer any version of events they wish and I am free to hold them in contempt if I find their version ridiculous.

    I also don’t have to engage in a point by point discussion of various crackpot theories. Check Mate.

  35. Sirs,

  36. Sirs, in your rush to deride the ‘msm’ and liberals you miss the point. We all want justice to the terrorists that attacked with planes but we are supposed to be the country that stands for due process and civil rights for people accused of crimes. Most of those at Gitmo are there by hearsay of malcontent neighbors, and often for pay. Adopt real due process, denounce torture, and stand for real justice. It is cowardly to do otherwise.