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ONE LAW, ONE PEOPLE

By David Vance On February 6th, 2013

I am sure that rather like me you were totally outraged to read the shattering news that Halal Meat contaminated with…erm…pork and had been fed to Muslim convicts in British jails. My outrage was that we grovel to these criminals by indulging their epicurean requirements in the first place. But then my eye caught this….

The Prison Reform Trust said it welcomed the immediate apology and investigation.
Its director Juliet Lyon said: “This is not a matter of dietary preference but of Islamic law.

Sorry but Islamic law carries no weight in the UK. We have managed to get by with our own laws so perhaps someone could tell Ms Lyons that we run our prisons by the standards of British law. Perhaps if such devoted Muslims chose not to break OUR laws then they would not be sent to prison in the first place. Pork sausages all round …..

27 Responses to “ONE LAW, ONE PEOPLE”

  1. So would you feel it is alright for non-Christian countries (or secular countries for that matter) to abuse Christian prisoners and not letting them engage in their religion? Would you find it acceptable if a secular country banned Christian prisoners from going to Mass?

    Also if a Muslim country banned Jews from eating Kosher would you respond in the same way?

  2. Muslims are allowed to eat pork if there is no other food available.

    Serve pork every night and the problem is solved.

    Everybody wins.

  3. I can still see them having issues with that Phantom.

  4. Phantom — Nasty. Would you say the same about Jewish prisoners and Kosher food?

  5. Sure!

    They should be served healthy food. Pork is very healthy to eat.

  6. I’m not a religious person myself, quite the opposite, but I’m in favour of respect for prisoners’ religion. But then, I’m an advocate for prisoners’ rights generally.

  7. Think its more about the contamination, eating something that you didn’t suspect was there. Rather like the horsemeat, it wasn’t going to harm any human, simply that peoples sensibilities were offended by eathing something they’d rather not.

    I’m left wondering what some people think prisons are? They’re harsh places but not there to treat humans as if they’re animals. Prisoners have a right to practice their religion, which would involve its rituals.

  8. My religion says that I should drink 72 ounces of beer every day. But I would not get that in jail.

    These guys weren’t thinking of religion when they were robbing and stealing. But once in jail, they all of a sudden need a holy diet.

    An anti halal diet in jail would encourage the lads to stay away from it and to follow the law.

  9. Now now, Phantom. The punishment is the loss of liberty. No need for sadism.

  10. Depriving me of grog would be more cruel than denying them a halal diet.

  11. Seamus there are 100s of countries where you can’t practice your religion in prison, hell there are dozens of countries that will put you in prison or worse for just BEING a Christian.

    Only in the west are we concerned with such trivialities.

    They are criminals if you must offer them a choice it’s simple you can have a diet that contains meat, meat is meat. If you are concerned about what creature the meat is made of here is a vegetarian menu.

    Problem solved for the sensibilities of the Jailors. The prisoners have lost their rights to demand anything other than to be fed and not beaten.

  12. Honestly, I don’t understand why anyone’s religious dietary laws are respected in prison, but since they obviously are, why is this halal twist an issue?

    If religious Jewish prisoners were regularly served non-kosher meals would we have an outraged anti-semitism post up for discussion?

    If the state decides to honor religious dietary laws for convicts, then so be it. Fair play for all, even the muslims.

  13. The ‘story’ is that they were unknowingly eating pork meat which is against their religion. Religious dietary laws are respected in prison and that is unlikely to change.

  14. Jewish prisoners receive kosher meals. But David’s outrage at indulging epicurean requirements seems to be restricted to Muslims.

  15. That’s about the size of it, Fews.

  16. //ONE LAW, ONE PEOPLE//

    …ONE LEADER!

  17. “Prisoners have a right to practice their religion, which would involve its rituals”

    I’m betting they restrict Paganism…

  18. Petr the Grate,
    “Phantom — Nasty. Would you say the same about Jewish prisoners and Kosher food?

    Did you actually read my comment about the disparity in numbers between Jewish prisoners in UK jails (approx 200) and Muslim prisoners (9000+)
    Or did your “Champion of the Masses” (Catholic Branch), filter it out?

  19. Obviously the coppers are ignoring a huge wave of Jewish crime that must exist.

    Selective punishment bla bla

  20. What it really shows is that there are a helluva lot of Jewish coppers out there. Ain’t that so, Allan?

  21. Agie — Calm down. I don’t see such a comment on this thread.

    Phantom — I doubt anyone would make such a claim. Socio-economic conditions tends to explain who some people go to prison more than others.

  22. Petr
    Here it is. The web references are interesting.


    Agit8ed, on February 4th, 2013 at 4:13 PM Said:

    Yes it is Petr, but there are some serious differences in that Jewish kosher butchers cater to a much smaller customer base (I think a minority of Jews follow kashrut), and no attempt has been made to introduce kosher meat into the consumer food chain without labelling it ‘Kosher.’
    For an official EU study on the issue go here..
    http://www.eblex.org.uk/documents/content/research/rd_qs_g_f_fr_-_slaughter_and_meat_quality_-_feb_2012.pdf

    This is a good website for exploring the history of the Jews in England specifically and Great Britain generally.
    http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/England.html

    I know that you believe in tolerance Petr, and in itself that is a good thing, but it is interesting that British Jewry were never allowed to have their own law system running alongside our own and carrying equal authority. The Jews in Britain have by and large assimilated into British society and made great contributions to our national life in all the arts and sciences.

    There are currently about 200 Jews in prison in the UK
    http://freethinker.co.uk/2010/03/12/muslim-gangs-are-taking-over-uk-prisons-a-bbc-investigation-reveals/.

    Figures for 2008 reveal 9,795 Muslims in prison here..

    http://freethinker.co.uk/2010/03/12/muslim-gangs-are-taking-over-uk-prisons-a-bbc-investigation-reveals/

    PS
    Re “I doubt anyone would make such a claim. Socio-economic conditions tends to explain who some people go to prison more than others.”

    Have you ever thought of sharing your idealism with Muslims in prison, better yet share a cell, share the injustice.
    I bet they would appreciate a nice young man coming in to share his thoughts on equality with them.
    A voice for the masses indeed!

  23. The question is: should prisoner’s religious dietary laws be catered for or not. I, personally think they should be, but if others don’t fair enough.

    With that in mind, the numbers involved are neither here nor there. It’s a principle which you either follow or don’t — it is followed at the moment and that is unlikely to change.

    The Jews in Britain have by and large assimilated into British society and made great contributions to our national life in all the arts and sciences.

    One of the most common complaints made about Jews in the worst days was that they had their own enclaves and didn’t assimilate. Same is often said about Muslims today.

    I did notice that at least two female Muslim MPs voted in favour of marriage equality. Creeping Sharia!! :)

    Have you ever thought of sharing your idealism with Muslims in prison, better yet share a cell, share the injustice.
    I bet they would appreciate a nice young man coming in to share his thoughts on equality with them.
    A voice for the masses indeed!

    What makes you type such nonsense?

    Do you think there are more Muslims than Jews in prison because Muslims are inherently bad? Serious question.

  24. Socio-economic conditions tends to explain who some people go to prison more than others.

    True. Also, bad guys steal stuff.

    The cause of crime is criminals.

  25. Jail is basically full of poor people. Rich people sometimes go to jail, but hardly ever.

  26. That’s true. In the US at least the jails are swelled by drug offenders thanks to the dopey drugs war.

    I have no first hand experience of the place, but my impression is that the huge majority of prisoners are not just poor, but they’re stupid too.

    A lot of crime is done by people who simply don’t think that the law applies to them.
    I know of a neighbor who is a low level ” wise guy “. He was never poor, but he wanted more than what the job paid, so he did ” favors ” for people, such as helping in the heist of a truckload of cigarettes. And went to jail.

    I hear of people who go to prison for ten years for a bank robbery for which their haul was $3000. I don’t get it. I can see trying to rob all the cash in a Vegas casino, but I sure don’t understand knocking off a liquor store, or even a bank. You don’t get that much money, even in a bank, most times, and the penalty is so high.

  27. This is not an issue of whether religous dietary requests should be met but about honesty in description. If it is decided that Kosher/Halal requirements will not be met then say so openly and tell prisoners to deal with it. However, if you say to prisoners that food is Halal/Vegetarian/non-gluten whatever, then you have a duty to ensure that it is.

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