VIOLENCE MUST NOT PAY
By David Vance On March 4th, 2013I see that the UK city of culture is living up to expectations;
Four live mortar bombs were intercepted by police in Northern Ireland minutes before being launched, a senior detective has said. Avan had its roof cut back to allow the mortars to be fired. Police believe the target was a Londonderry police station. Three men have been arrested in the operation linked to dissident republicans. Chief Supt Stephen Cargin said the bombs could have caused mass murder.
I listened to a Sinn Fein politician on the radio explain why this was wrong and why violence must not pay.
IRONY KLAXON.
The IRA bombed and butchered their way into the heart of Government and that’s the truth of the matter. In Londonderry, they loved to bomb the Strand Road police station, the likely target for this mortar bomb attack. WHY was it right for the Provos to bomb and commit mass murder but wrong when “I can’t believe it’s not the IRA” do it? I will tell you why. When Sinn Fein condemn this latest attempted killing it is because it seeks to ensure that all “legitimacy” for terrorism resides with the IRA. Basically, they do not want to pass their terrorist credentials to “dissidents.” And as for the notion that terrorism must NOT be seen to pay, have a look at this!
Was that Raymond mc cartney you listened to? Thought he sounded v good. What would you like sinn fein politicians to do? Every time a terror threat happens jump up and down and shout horray? No one in their right minds would welcome such a thing as last night, and so I feel your point is lost on any right thinking people.
Just for the record no one said the dissidents should be given any thing, but barney rowan did suggest a conversation to be had among republicans to let persuasion work..? Or is persuasion from violence appeasement in your book?
Condemning republicans and wanting the roads blocked by fleg protesters is hardly good logic.
yes the voters have said if you kill people we will vote you into office. That is what every vote for for SF/IRA has always meant. An award for terrorism.
You set the precedent now you have to live with it.
I keep having to remind myself that the IRA was the cuddly pack of cuddly evil murdering bastards.
No, Troll.
The existence of NI is the reward for terrorism. The provos, dissidents, UVF, fleg protestors etc are all just following in the malign footsteps of Carson and Craig.
Once again those favoring a return to the days prior to the Peace Process are fringe Republican groups and those unionists who have been displaced by the electoral process and can’t stand democracy.
The fact remains is that NI is a better place now than it was, that violence there is vastly reduced and that fringe groups may still cause problems but they do not have the degree of support that the used to enjoy.
Is it too much to ask for the PSNI to be given a bit of credit for a fantastic operation? Instead of enabling terrorists like the RUC they are doing a stand up job in stopping them.
Mahons
It is not a fact that NI is a better place. It may well be your opinion but that is not the same thing.
Those who can’t stand democracy are well served by the nonsence of mandatory coalition.
Aileen,
NI is by far a better place since 1998. There are still big problems to be addressed and, you are right, the form of government leaves a lot to be desired. Still, even that is much better than the governance of the 6 counties prior to 1998.
Can we not go back to the good ol’ days of direct rule, when Catholics knew their place?
Aileen – Prior to 1998 it was a far more violent place, with far more terrorist activity, and a cycle of violence that seemed impossible to overcome. And the government structure in place was for the benefit of the majority, without serious consideration for the minority population.
Those are facts, not opinions.
Since that time there has been a dramatic transformation that has resulted in a reduction in violence that is almost a miracle, except for the fact that it was the result of difficult and hard negotiations. An imperfect compromise without a doubt, but one that has allowed NI to emerge from the difficulties of the past and provided hope for the future for all.
“And the government structure in place was for the benefit of the majority, without serious consideration for the minority population.”
But elsewhere, Obama won the election so conservatives can suck it up.
If the standard is a reduction in violence then let all the gangsters and mafias and terrorists have what they want. Violence will drop. We know this because that’s what happened in NI. Come the day republicans stop advancing their cause by politics alone they’ll resort again to violence.
Pete – Except they don’t have what they want, NI remains in the UK, a condition which was the anti-thesis of the republican movement. And it isn’t leaving any time soon.
By the way, you seem to call for people to take matters into their own hands throughout the world when faced with government they don’t care for, except in NI. I promise not to tell.
Mahons -
I said that republicans are advancing their cause, not that they have got what they want.
I have no problem with people fighting oppressive government. Who can oppose it but brainwashed dupes? But killing innocents – nope, nothing can possibly justify that.
Reg
It is your opinion that it is better. In my opinion it is worse but I was responding to Mahons declaration that it was a “fact” that it was better. I used to want to retire to NI. I no longer do.
Mahons
When protection money is paid on a joint, there is less violence than when it isn’t. That does not make the situation better. Government structures should favour the majority.
Government structures should favour the majority
Those days are gone and not coming back.
Government structures shouldn’t favour anyone; every citizen should be treated equally.
Pete – Oddly enough they’ve advanced their cause by dropping the terrorism. Before that they had less support and deserved arrest, prosecution and jail for violent crimes.
Aileen – It isn’t simply a small drop in the violence, it is a fundamental change. Government structures should not be tailored to favor the majority, especially in a situation such as NI where it was created to favor the majority at the expense of the minority.
There are circumstances which run the gamut from imperfect to foolish in NI in terms of what has been done to assist in the transformation, but the transformation has been significant and beneficial.
Mahons
It is NOT a FACT that NI is a better place now. It is an OPINION,
Government structures should be constructed to favour the majority. Otherwise why vote?
Aileen – I suppose one could argue that it is my opinion that because there is far less violence that it is a better place. I suppose further that one could argue that it was a better place when there was far more violence and terrorist activity. I am not sure that the second opinion has merit in the real world.
The fact is there is far less violence today. That part is not an opinion.
As for government structures, when they unduly favor the majority at the deliberate expense of the minority they are unjust. Especially, when as in NI, the entire system was gerrymandered to allow a minority to become the majority.
“You set the precedent now you have to live with it.”
That precedent was set a long time ago. The founders of Northern Ireland were all terrorists. No, similarly with Israel, you may find a way to forgive those terrorists and only selectively condemn terrorism but the rest of us don’t.
“Those who can’t stand democracy are well served by the nonsence of mandatory coalition.”
There are more than one form of democracy. Democracy, in the original Greek, means rule of the people. Which is more democratic and more reflective of the rule of the people? Britain, where in 2005 35% of the people elected the government, or Northern Ireland, where in 2011 91% of the people elected the government?
Thankfully both sets seem to have nullified to a large extent although it would seem that here on ATW the former seem to be non existant while the latter seem to be in the majority. Witness the;
I’m sure that there’s some not very far from here are positively salivating at that prospect. Ironically both querulous groups desire the same outcome.
Wish away malcontents, it aint gonna happen.
As to the pedantry around wether it’s a better place or not. A massive decrease in violence would logically suggest that things have improved in terms of death rate.
David, on a related note. It seems that the general consensus is that those fleg / marching guys that you support have racheted things up by doing something similar.
http://www.u.tv/News/Bomb-found-at-Newtownabbey-chapel/f628307f-5e7b-4e02-a3ef-bc41ddbdd06f
I’m surprised that, in the interests of balance, you didn’t run this story
(Sarcasm off)
Mahons
One can argue many things but that doesn’t make them facts.
Aileen – OK, I’ll take it one step at a time. There has been less violence in NI since 1998 than in the period before.
Fact? I think so.
Today there are far fewer killings, far less destruction, less fear and despair, less unemployment, a more vibrant social and cultural life in safer cities, more inward investment.
But there is today also less freedom to fly the Union Jack, so on balance things have got much worse.
Noel – too funny.
A couple of points. Firstly well done to the PSNI for catching these terrorists red handed kind of makes those who were spouting shite that they were useless only a couple of days ago look stupid and bitter. Secondly anyone who believes that the north is worse off than before the GAG is in my opinion either twisted by hatred or off their head.The difference between when I was growing up and now is night and day.
Should read GFA bloody auto correct
anyone who believes that the north is worse off than before the GAG is in my opinion either twisted by hatred or off their head
Exactly.
Well not just that. Some are too angry (and sometimes with an understandable anger) to accept it. I wouldn’t downplay them as either crazy or off their head. But they are not accepting reality. And they offer no viable alternative. They would rather splinter their vote, and call everyone else appeasers.
They offer an alternative, it’s just not a democratic one.
On these issues I don’t think Sinn Fein can win either way, if they don’t come out and condemn them they are destroyed for not standing up to dissidents and when they do they are accused of being hypocrites.
This was a very good operation by the PSNI and like Henry has said in stark contrast to the force that preceded them. It is highly disingenuous though to suggest that Sinn Fein bombed and shot their way to government. They got there through the democratic process by the express will of the people.
That’s democracy but I do find Unionists stance on “democracy” questionable at best and downright hypocritical at worst.
This is a political philosophy/movement that opposed the democratic will of the people of Ireland and opposed Home Rule, imported illegal arms to hold the democratic process to ransom, formed their own terrorist army, they opposed the 1918 election outcome and when forming their bastardised state did it in such a way as to invent a Unionist majority, hence the reasons why their brethren in Cavan, Monaghan and Donegal were thrown to the Republican wolves.
That said it is enjoyable to watch the mock outrage about a lack of democracy from people who support that position.
Well said, Chris. We don’t always agree but on this I agree with you on every point.
It happens the odd time Petr
//, hence the reasons why their brethren in Cavan, Monaghan and Donegal were thrown to the Republican wolves.//
I know that in Cavan at least these Protestant brethren have been thanking them for leaving them out of NI ever since.
I know a few in Donegal who feel the same way Noel
No Mahons there are no steps to take to get you to the incorrect statement that it is a FACT that NI is better off now. It is not a fact it is an opinion. It is an opinion that I do not share but that is beside the point. Even if I did share it, it would still be an opinion.
There are (at least) two parts to the issue, one – what the factors of “better” are and how these factors contribute to the point on the scale better to worse . Two applying the algorithm to NI before and after.
What the former is, is a matter of OPINION. Depending what your One is and how subjective each criterion is, Two may also be a matter of OPINION. Either way, the overall assessment is a matter of OPINION and NOT FACT!
Aileen – And that is your opinion. The merits of which are not necessarily equal to other opinions.
P.S. Do capital letters mean you are shouting?