TURKEY ROASTING ISLAM?
By ATWadmin On February 29th, 2008Here’s an interesting one for you – and I thank Frank O’Dwyer for bringing it up as an issue today.
Turkey is preparing to publish a document that represents a revolutionary reinterpretation of Islam - and a controversial and radical modernisation of the "religion". The country’s powerful Department of Religious Affairs has commissioned a team of theologians at Ankara University to carry out a fundamental revision of the Hadith, the second most sacred text in Islam after the Koran. Is this a sign of progress – of a new Islam. Or is it secularist Turkey trying its best to stop the relentless advance of "traditional" murderous Islam? I found this quite an interesting analysis on the issue and my instinct is to wish the Turks well…. what do you all think about it?
I am so glad you put this up!!! I was just going to do it myself. I think this story is very important. Refoming or moderating radical Islamism must be done from within Islamic countries by the Islamic people. I think this is a great start, it will be interesting to see if it catches on and spreads.
I wonder what is actually happening here though, I mean according to this:
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?c=Article_C&cid=1203757550116&pagename=Zone-English-News/NWELayout
It’s a ‘reclassification’ rather than a ‘revision’.
Interesting link David. Turkey is a beacon of hope that medieval fundamentalism need not be the deafult ideology in islamic countries in the future.
But the outcome could go either way – the forces of fundamentalism are being felt in Turkey which has recently conceded on head-scarves for students.
The malign influence of sunni and shia fundamentalism (promoted by Saudi Arabia and Iran respectively) has plenty of energy in it. And the west is effectively financing it by buying their oil.
The BBC are hyping it up it seems.
Changing the Hadith is not new. It has been done many times and usually for political reasons. Turkey has a huge interest in stopping radical Islam and the west should wish it well. But not out loud. Support from the west will probably hurt their chances.
Part of the problem is that Islam already had its reformation
I know we are used to thinking of a reformation of a faith as a taming and diluting of it. I’m sure Luther and Calvin didn’t see it like that but then they couldn’t have imagined Druid Williams.
I messed up the link in the previous post. Here it is again.
Part of the problem is that Islam already had itsreformation
Henry,
I agree that the BBC are hyping it up. But I’m glad they are. By having our national broadcaster run with the story it will hopefully be picked up by many Muslims in the UK, and may just inspire a similar "reformation" here.
Unfortunately, as Ross points out, this turned out to be nothing but hype.
And Henry, that article by Ali Eteraz – known whitewasher of radical Islam – plays fast and loose with the facts. Islam has not already had a reformation – if it had, the four main schools of Sunni jurisprudence, as well as the Shi’ite schools, would not still teach jihad today as they do. And it’s interesting that he seems to cite Ibn Taymiyya as the inspiration for this "reformation", when Taymiyya himself is/was regularly quoted by Osama bin Laden to justify terrorism. Taymiyya, of course, once said this:
"Since lawful warfare is essentially jihad and since its aim is that the religion is God’s entirely and God’s word is uppermost, therefore according to all Muslims, those who stand in the way of this aim must be fought. As for those who cannot offer resistance or cannot fight, such as women, children, monks, old people, the blind, handicapped and their likes, they shall not be killed unless they actually fight with words (e.g. by propaganda) and acts (e.g. by spying or otherwise assisting in the warfare)."
The Hanbali school of jurisprudence still teaches this today. Hardly what I’d call a useful reformation.
Unfortunately, as Ross points out, this turned out to be nothing but hype.
Really? I thought it was just starting.
The Reformation of Christianity took at least 50 years, on some counts perhaps 150 years. So it seems a tad unreasonable to expect Islam to effect something similar in less than one year. Unless you’re an islam-hater of course.
Let me confirm that as an atheist I despise all religions, including islam. The sooner the human race gets rid of its centuries old addiction to the drug of supernaturalism, the better. And if it doesn’t, it’s quite likely that sky-god religion will precipitate a third world war with nuclear, chemical and biological weapons used indiscriminately. My guess is that this is about a 50/50 chance within the next 20 years, and it may be that I’m way too optimistic with these odds.
Ben
Hardly what I’d call a useful reformation.
Who said reformation is useful? People who assume that are often quick to condemn George Bush as a warmonger. Yet he subscribes to the reformed view of Christianity. He went to war based on his own understanding of his faith and payed no attention to the Pope’s stated opposition.
When was the last time a Catholic leader started a war?
Are Protestants, I wonder, ever offended by the suggestion that when a religion needs its wings clipped reformation is the answer?
Peter,
The problem is that this is not a Reformation at all. Read the link Ross posted; all this is is a reclassification; there will be no rejection or reinterpretation of the hadith traditions that are used to justify the oppression of women, for example. In fact, the guy in the link says that "no Muslim in their right mind" would do this.
Henry,
"Changing the Hadith is not new. It has been done many times and usually for political reasons."
You say that like there are ever any other reasons for change in religion. After all there aren’t any theologians anywhere making breakthroughs in some theology lab. There aren’t any new versions of the texts coming out. There are only more and less popular interpretations of vague and self-contradictory texts that support almost any interpretation.
It’s like when the Pope dispatched crack theologians to come up with some reason why Limbo doesn’t really exist, same thing. Limbo is bad for business in a prime growth market where children are dying hand over fist. In time there’ll likely be a Pope, possibly female, on a balcony taking it all back about contraception and apologising for claiming that life began at conception. After all even the Pope has to pay the bills.
Peter,
It is rather frightening. On the one hand we have the neo-con Bible-thumpers with their belief in the End Times and the Rapture. On the other we have the Iranian president with his belief in the coming of the Hidden Imam who’ll herald Armageddon.
I suppose the human race has always been in the clutches of such lunatics. Yet it’s only in recent decades that they’ve had access to weapons that could truly destroy us all.
The godfree among us must be wondering how much longer we can allow our future to be vouchsafed to religious madmen.
Unfortunately, as Ross points out, this turned out to be nothing but hype.
Really? I thought it was just starting.
"Make no mistake, we are not after modifying or revising the Hadith," Mehmet Gormez, deputy director of the religious affairs authority Diyanet and supervisor of the project, told IslamOnline.net in a phone interview.
"We are neither fashioning a new Islam nor dare to alter the fixtures maxims of Islam," Gormez said emphatically.
Gormez also refuted claims they would and edit out some hadiths, especially about women. "No Muslim in the right mind would dare delete any hadith or tamper with the Prophet’s heritage."
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/020145.php
Frank
In time there’ll likely be a Pope, possibly female, on a balcony taking it all back about contraception and apologising for claiming that life began at conception.
You’ll be ice-skating in (another) place you expected to be warmer before that ever happens.
The Limbo point shows exactly how the media coverage simplifies beyond the point of distortion. What did the Pope say about Limbo? Not what he was predicted to say or reported as likely to say but what did he say and how was it a change?
Henry,
I bet the same has been said of many other things that have come to pass.
The official statement from the Vatican is here, and any way you slice it what used to be the common teaching (but not ‘doctrine’, even though these words mean the same thing), is now no longer the common teaching.
The reasons are elaborated at length in what must surely rank as one of the most forlorn and pointless intellectual exercises ever attempted, but what I take to be the real reason is in there: "such an explication is called for today by pressing pastoral needs."
Frank
I bet the same has been said of many other things that have come to pass.
And many that have not.
There is no change. Limbo remains what it has been, a theological proposition. A doctrine of the church is something that Catholics are required to believe. Limbo never was and is not now. A Catholic may still believe it however. Because the Catholic Church has always been clear that it was not revealed what happens to unbaptised infants. Hence the theological speculation.
Henry,
"There is no change. Limbo remains what it has been, a theological proposition. A doctrine of the church is something that Catholics are required to believe."
It’s not really true that there is no change because this is a clear signal to those who teach this that they should change. The doctrine of the church is not just what you are required to believe, but the everyday sense of what is taught. And they did used to teach this because that is how I know about it.
As for theological speculation, the church has rarely had the modesty to present any of its teachings as any kind of speculation. Similarly this was not presented to me as some kind of theological string theory, this was how we were told it was. Indeed it has just as solid a basis as many other things that are taught.
Meaningful reformation of islam is impossible. The koran is considered by muslims to be the absolute, final, immutable word of (the moon-) god and, in its perfection, contains all the knowledge that man need ever have.
This means that the beating of women, lesser intelligence of women, lower legal status of women, Jews and Christians being apes and pigs whom no muslim can befriend but must kill, subjugate or convert under pain of death, amongst other snippets of wisdom, must remain and be imposed upon the world until all the world is muslim. Only then will there be peace.