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NEVER FORGET? FORGET WHAT?

By David Vance On September 11th, 2013

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Ok, I just could not let this day pass without comment.  12 years on from the horrors of 9/11, the biggest act of terrorism the world has ever, literally, seen.  What is there new that needs to be said?

I have seen Phantom and Trolls touching posts below and like so much else, this day evokes great poignancy, examples of noble individual courage, terrible loss, horrendous decisions of life and..mostly, death. There is another side to 9/11 though and I am going to tackle it head-on, as is my wont. We will hear a lot today about the importance of “Never Forgetting” but the truth is that most of our political leaders have long since forgotten the key lessons of 9/11. That is to their shame and also to ours if we vote for them.

Bin Laden set out to plan a spectacular, a terrorist event on a grand scale, that would gain a global media audience and humble the Great Satan. He succeeded beyond his wildest Islamofascist dreams and thousands met a horrible death that we can but only imagine, truth be told. Even living in Northern Ireland during the IRA/UVF/UDA years of serial terrorism, I was still stunned by what happened that day. But WHY did this happen – why did he feel so emboldened? The truth is that Clinton had shown an alarming disinterest in the threat from Islamic terrorism, and his tokenistic strikes convinced OBL that he has everything to win and nothing to lose by orchestrating a spectacular. It was also a test of the WILL of the USA, and the so-called International Community. Both failed and whilst we can all be critical of Bush at least he tried to respond in a direct manner. But plenty opposed that then and ever since the “war on terror” has morphed into a vague war to win women’s rights in Afghanistan and be nice to Islamists in general.

We have failed to grasp that a significant section of ISLAM is at war with us. It will use terrorism when it needs to – it will use political influence where possible – and it will do all it can to turn Dar al Harb as it defines us into Dar al Islam. 12 years on, do you think the Islamofascists feel more or less confident? If 9/11 was the opening shots in a war, who won?

In the UK and in the USA, in Europe and across the arc of north Africa, Islam is resurgent, gaining power and setting the agenda. We see instance after instance of submission to the Muslim agenda, as our authorities capitulate rather than confront. It was General Patton who said  “The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his..” We should have followed his advice more clearly. Instead, we pretend that we are at war, we show signs of chronic fatigue and a disinterest to defend our liberties. I am sure Bin Laden would be pleased with the world, 12 years on. I don’t wish to rain on the 9/11 parade but I also see no reason to run away from confronting some harsh truths.

86 Responses to “NEVER FORGET? FORGET WHAT?”

  1. As I have said in regard to NI that the NI and Great Britain lost to the IRA/SF, I have to say the US is losing the War on Terror.

    First off for the most part the fact that the US is actually the only nation fighting is a major victory to the Islamists, and we are only doing what sending a couple of drones every two or three months to pick someone off.

    The Islamists are solidifying the Middle East into the Caliphate, they are developing nuclear weapons, they are using chemical weapons. It maybe that they are using them on each other at the moment,but that will change.

    here is a nice little story I just read.

    Egypt’s Muslim Brotherhood to Coptic Christians: Convert to Islam, or pay ‘jizya’ tax
    The Muslim Brotherhood and its supporters have began forcing the roughly 15,000 Christian Copts of Dalga village in Egypt to pay a jizya tax as indicated in Koran 9:29, author and translator Raymond Ibrahim reported on Sunday.

    Jizya is the money, or tribute, “that conquered non-Muslims historically had to pay to their Islamic overlords ‘with willing submission and while feeling themselves subdued’ to safeguard their existence,” Mr. Ibrahim explained.

    According to Fr. Yunis Shawqi, who spoke yesterday to Dostor reporters in Dalga, all Copts in the village, “without exception,” are being forced to pay the tax.

    “[The] value of the tribute and method of payment differ from one place to another in the village, so that, some are being expected to pay 200 Egyptian pounds per day, others 500 Egyptian pounds per day,” Mr. Shawqi said, according to the translator.

    In some cases, families not able to pay have been attacked. As many as 40 Christian families have now fled Dalga, Mr. Ibrahim reported.

    The taxes are not unique to Egypt either.

    Just over the weekend Syrian rebels went into a Christian man’s “shop and gave him three options: become Muslim; pay $70,000 as a tax levied on non-Muslims, known as jizya; or be killed along with his family,” Christian Science Monitor reported.

    Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/sep/10/egypts-muslim-brotherhood-convert-islam-or-pay-jiz/#ixzz2eZzasFu5
    Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter

    Convert, Pay up, or Die.

    We are governed by idiots. They are idiots we have put into office. So as a result over the next decade terror in the name of Allah will grow instead of decrease.

    So many of you dismiss the threat as the inner cities of every nation on that side of the pond become forbidden zones for nonmuslims.

    Mmmph Convert, Pay up, or Die. Given that choice I give them them only one answer, and it comes from the barrel of a gun.

  2. //The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his..” We should have followed his advice more clearly. //

    If you mean “war on Terror” in anything more than a figurative sense, you are wrong.

    Simple minds can’t handle abstractions, and instead of fighting “terror”, many understood the call as a war against Islam, or Arabs, or everyone in the Middle East except Israel, or whatever.

    The result was those delightful photos from Abu Ghraib prison and Guatanamo Bay, and a few mass killings and rapes of Arab civilians by soliders of Western armies. You can be sure that Islamists pick up and hightlight precisely these incidents to support their version of the “war on Terror”, the same way as many here highlight Arab/Muslim crimes for more or less for the same purpose – to portray the lot of them as barbarians and the enemy.
    Mind you, I have a feeling the Arabs have been more successful in this propaganda than their western counterparts.

    No. What the ME and the general Islamic world needs is not more war but more economic development, more prosperity, consumerism and materialm. Sad as it will be to see some attractive aspects of their culture go, go it all must if the region and the world is to be rid of all that fanaticism and bigotry.

    Consumerism has incredible power, it even destroyed political Catholicism in Ireland in just a few years. It has wiped away various religions in many parts of the world. Sooner or later Muslims too will be seduced by the lures of materialism.

    What the west can do to this end is to ignore the fanatics on all sides and continue doing what it does best: produce great goods and popular culture and be seen to be having all the fun in the world.

  3. The people who may have forgotten the “lessons” to me could be said to include those who take the attack that day as their justification for military action elsewhere (see Iraq) and extrajudicial incarcerations (see Gitmo) that have undermined our efforts to combat real Islamic radicalism, depleted our resources, caused unnecessary death, eroded international support and flaunted the bedrock principles of our system of justice.

    The Islamic terrorists are to blame for 9/11. But its use it politically to justify the unjustifiable is wrong.

  4. DV –

    “If 9/11 was the opening shots in a war, who won?”

    9/11 wasn’t the opening shot, it was the day millions took notice of violent Islam.

    1979 and the taking of US hostages in Tehran wasn’t the opening shot either. That was blowback for Operation Ajax in 1953, when MI6 and the CIA orchestrated a violent coup in Iran and installed the Shah, whose violent reign came to an end in 1979. The intervening decades have seen the West occupy lands, overthrow regimes which displease them, prop up despots who please them and finagle in every possible way.

    Osama bin Laden was crystal clear as to what motivated his attacks (the Khobar Towers, the USS Cole etc); it was the US occupation of what he regarded as the Saudi Holy Land, which props up a despotic regime which now exports wahhabist terrorists and madrassas all over the place. Get out and we’ll back off, he said, but no-one took any notice.

    “Instead, we pretend that we are at war, we show signs of chronic fatigue and a disinterest to defend our liberties.”

    Not a single Islamic terrorist has done anything which should endanger our liberties. The real threat to those, which the last 12 years has demonstrated beyond the slightest doubt, is the power elites of London and Washington.

  5. and tell us Mahons how would you fight, or wouldn’t you fight at all?

    The Bush Doctrine was “any and all nations that promote, harbor, or support terrorism will be considered enemy states, and will be dealt with from that perspective”.

    Surely Iraq fell into that category. GITMO is a POW camp designed for what in previous wars would be considered Illegal Combatants. It is outside the US so that ACLU and other bleeding heart types like you can’t interfere.

    What’s the nearest Prison to your house Mahons. Petition the government to move the GITMO prisoners there. I’m sure it will only take a few months before some member of your profession gets them released into your community.

    How do you define bringing the fight to the enemy as unjustifiable? You act like so many of your mindset that this is a war of our choosing. It is not.

    Convert, Pay up, or Die. That ultimatum was given to every American 12 years ago. It was delivered with the death of 3000 people to drive the point home.

    So tell oh great lawyer. Present your case as to how we should handle the threat.

    You won’t though, you never do. You will make idiotic statements like your comment above, but you don’t dare lay out what you consider as an alternative.

    Your not good enough to either make your case, or more honestly you have no clue what to do. You just have criticism of others to offer, don’t you?

  6. //You won’t though, you never do. You will make idiotic statements like your comment above//

    Troll, will you ever give us all a break and do what David said he’d do but thankfully didn’t – disappear for a while. Preferably for a long while.

    I and others say things here that are obviously further away from your position than mahons or Phantom is – yet you continually jump on any US contributor here who says anything different from your insanity. I’m sure I speak for all non-US visitors when I say I am more than fed up with your American Civil War II.

    This is a post about 9-11 and its aftermath. Political comments were made, until you come along with your illiterate aggression and personal attacks and drag the whole thing into the gutter you live in.
    David is obviously sick of all the bickering here. You start most of it, so give him and all of us a break and clear off.

  7. no Noel.

    You constantly make nonsense comments, you speak for no one but yourself. Never think otherwise. You, Allan, Pete and others make outrageous statements and I never call for you to leave. So what thinks you have the right to ask me to leave?

    I hold my fellow Americans to a higher standard than I hold you, because the worst of them are better than you.

    You can claim I have dragged this into the gutter, If asking our esteemed Lawyer to actually lay out his alternative is judged by you as doing that, you prove my point.

    I expect more out of my fellow Americans. Mahons may decry how the war is being conducted, but if he does so he should have the balls to provide what he believes as an alternative.

    There is an old American expression, “Put up, or Shut Up” I hold him to that standard because unlike you if he chose to he could make a reasonable case for any position he holds. The fact that he refuses to is a demonstration of the weakness of his position.

    Noel your just another fool in my view. I don’t care what your opinions are, nor what you request of me.

  8. And now you insult mahons and Phantom by saying you rate them highly.

    How could mahons or Phantom or any sane person reply to your ignorance? You have probably destroyed yet another promising thread with your personal attacks.

    Let David decide on this one. I’m done with you.

  9. Pete

    I agree. However Bin laden also lamented the tragedy of 1492!

  10. Noel

    You’re really on to something.

    The endless attempts at provocation and instigation should not be responded to.

    The pet thrives on attention. Starve the beast.

    Cheers, off to the airport for a quick Bermuda trip.

  11. ah yes it’s the evil troll…. boo hoo

    I insulted no one, I requested he flesh out his statement. If you view that as an insult than you speak volumes of yourself.

    Since when is holding someone to account for their positions and statements an insult?

    Phantom you and Mahons already don’t respond to direct questions.

    Mahons will not put up his alternative. Just as you can’t explain why you needed to take a thread that was a tribute to a decent man and add an attack on the end of it.

    I will hold you ALL accountable. The fact that you can not address the holes in your statements or arguments speaks for itself.

    Those of you who suffer from Troll Derangement Syndrome can continue to suffer.

  12. Oh by the way Russia just announced it is supplying Iran with 5 s-300 anti-ballistic missile systems.

    http://www.france24.com/en/20130911-russia-renew-offer-supply-300s-iran

    Gee you think they’ll put them around their people or around their nuclear weapons plants?

  13. ….I was still stunned by what happened that day.

    Along with everybody else who saw the images of the twin towers, I too was stunned. Most people have remained stunned and are unable to think beyond the images and the prepared narrative of that day but surely, 12 years after, those who have shaken of the stupor of 9/11 can look at this with more concern –

    http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/09/poll-more-americans-believe-world-trade-center-7-was-demolished-on-911-than-believe-the-governments-explanation.html

    “Even the government’s own computer model disproves its theory. It looks nothing like the actual collapse,” said Tony Szamboti, a mechanical engineer from the Philadelphia area. “Not only that, they refuse to release the data that would allow us to verify their model. In the world of science, this is as bad as it gets. I’m glad most people can look at the collapse and see the obvious.”

  14. Pete a question.

    Are there any areas in Britain or Ireland that are becoming no-go zones? Any places they are trying to instal Sharia?

  15. Noel,

    I couldn’t agree more with your comment above.

    I give you Troll – the ‘unfounded personal attack specialist’, whose parting line in his childish diatribe against Mahons just has to be the sign of his ultimate delusional mentality, – “You just have criticism of others to offer, don’t you?”.

    Is this humour? or just plain mischief? The man offers nothing but aggravation, – which he thinks is ‘just fine’ and enjoys frequently telling us so.

    There have been other troll’s in ATW’s history, but none have been so persistently unpleasant and in such an ignorant way. I get the impression that David shows him such tolerance, more out of sympathy for his ‘condition’, and possibly in the hope, – as one does, – that he may improve with time!

    That he knows full well that he is destroying ATW was obvious in a comment on an earlier thread, he accused others of the very behaviour which is his trade mark, and and then suggested that they would be sorry when ATW shut-up-shop, ‘as it was all their fault’.

    Devious, – the man should be a poltician!.

    Unfortunately, – in this case, and as with Al Quaeda – to ignore is to encourage. His sole intention is to drive commenters away, and by ignoring him he thinks he is winning.

    It isn’t just ‘a thread’ that he destroys, it is ATW itself, and being the sad, sick little misanthrope that he is, he enjoys it!

  16. thank you Ernest, a finer compliment has rarely been written on these pages.

  17. off to work, everyone stay safe, hug a loved one, remember we are here to argue these points.

    There are 2,996 people that can’t because of the events of 12 years ago

  18. Does anyone need further proof of Troll’s inherent mental instabilty?…

  19. Troll – It is evident that you are crackers, and probably the single most unifying person on ATW since you manage to offend nearly everyone. It isn’t merely disagreement, it is your combination of ignorance and antagonism. It has saturated the site for years, lowering the standard of discourse and doing great damage to any credibility it has.

    As for the issue in question, I don’t think it is proper to use 9/11 to justify endless war against endless enemies. There were people responsible, and their leader was correctly hunted down and killed.

    Federal Max Pens close to me? There are 3 in Pennsylvania, but that might be too close for your tastes. Sing Sing on the Hudson (being sent up the River) is a State Prison, but if the feds will pay for the security I don’t mind if they ship them there. These alleged terrorists aren’t X Men who are going to fly out of the prison and melt us or turn us into ice. They are prisoners like any others in history, and we house and try other terrorists with sufficient success here on the mainland of the USA.

    9/11 should not be used as a reason for endless war.

  20. Mahons

    9/11 should not be used as inspiration for endless war yet militant Islam (and those around the world who hate the US) do just that.

  21. David – I have no problem with legitimate efforts to combat Islamic terrorists. It is a real threat. But we haven’t always been very smart in the way we’ve done it these past few years, and that includes at times abandoning our judicial system and an ineffective and unchecked drone strategy.

    It doesn’t mean we don’t understand that the bad guys are the Islamic terrorists (they kill more Muslims than anything else) but we have to maintain our standards that have stood the test of time and not sweep aside legal safeguards in an hysterical way.

  22. Troll –

    “Are there any areas in Britain or Ireland that are becoming no-go zones? Any places they are trying to instal Sharia?”

    No.

    In one tiny neighbourhood, no bigger than what you’d describe as a block, in London, some young muslim headbangers went out on a few nights and demanded that passers by adhere to sharia. It sounds like the usual young bravado where everyone’s hard if they’re in a group. I was in that neighbourhood two weeks ago, I walked straight through it. There was nothing out of the ordinary. There was some publicity at the time about it but nothing since. I think they might have got spooked when they made the papers.

    No government bodies are trying the imlement sharia, though maybe some muslim organisations are wondering how to get tenets of sharia recognised.

    Occasionally there’ll be a story about a few youngsters talking about their “muslim area”, but again this is bravado at night.

    There’s certainly nowhere in Britain or Ireland that I’d avoid at any time.

  23. There’s certainly nowhere in Britain or Ireland that I’d avoid at any time.

    What about Wales?

  24. In one tiny neighbourhood, no bigger than what you’d describe as a block, in London,

    Where was that Pete?

    No government bodies are trying the imlement sharia, though maybe some muslim organisations are wondering how to get tenets of sharia recognised

    Agreed. While some Islamic nutters bang on about introducing Sharia Law, some eejits run around places like Tower Hamlets putting up stickers declaring it a self – proclaimed Sharia Law zone and ‘newspapers’ like the Dail Mail lap it up in order to scare their readership shitless and sell copy Sharia Law will never be implemented in Europe because, like the Old Testament, elements of it are truly barbaric.

    I hold my fellow Americans to a higher standard than I hold you, because the worst of them are better than you

    Troll, do you realise just how much arrogant arseholery is contained in the above statement?

    Claiming that your country is better than any country on earth just because you were born in it is the comment of the spoilt self indulgent child.

  25. While we’re on the topic of the WTC a frightening development from the American Ally fiefdom in the Middle East that seems to control a fair amount of terrorism:

    http://www.eutimes.net/2013/08/putin-orders-massive-strike-against-saudi-arabia-if-west-attacks-syria/

  26. Paul – I am not acquainted with the EU Times. The article in question seems pretty dubious.

  27. A friend sent me the link Mahons I don’t know the veracity of the source.

    http://www.eutimes.net/about/

  28. I don’t really see how Russia could launch a military strike against Saudi Arabia even if they wanted. It’s not close to them and it’s of sufficient importance to the USA that they’d defend it- and the USA’s military capacity is massively greater than Russia’s.

  29. The source seems to be a mish mash of sources:

    http://www.whatdoesitmean.com/index1699.htm

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/oilandgas/10266957/Saudis-offer-Russia-secret-oil-deal-if-it-drops-Syria.html

    Perhaps I’ve been reading too much ‘articles’ from Scotland.

  30. Mahons

    Agreed.

  31. Glad to see you back David. We might not agree on many things, (with the possible exception of music), but I do enjoy your contributions.

  32. Even if Putin had a navy and air force ten times larger than the ones he did have he would not see any reason to attack Saudi Arabia. There would be no reason to consider such a thing.

    The rumor is as ridiculous as the one the other day about the Saudis offering a terrorism protection deal for the Sochi Olympics.

    Hi from a rainy Bermuda.

  33. The rumor is as ridiculous as the one the other day about the Saudis offering a terrorism protection deal for the Sochi Olympics

    I don’t know about that Phantom the Daily Telegraph reported it here:

    As-Safir said Prince Bandar pledged to safeguard Russia’s naval base in Syria if the Assad regime is toppled, but he also hinted at Chechen terrorist attacks on Russia’s Winter Olympics in Sochi if there is no accord. “I can give you a guarantee to protect the Winter Olympics next year. The Chechen groups that threaten the security of the games are controlled by us,” he allegedly said

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/oilandgas/10266957/Saudis-offer-Russia-secret-oil-deal-if-it-drops-Syria.html

    Albeit they did atribute it to this source;

    http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/politics/2013/08/saudi-russia-putin-bandar-meeting-syria-egypt.html#ixzz2d5UVLSNv

  34. Paul – Perhaps Allan writes for that paper in his spare time.

  35. Russia is not as strong as the USSR was , but they are proud, and they are big, and there is no way that any country, espectially a bullshit country like Saudi Arabia is going to make any protection money threat against them at any time.

    The Russians would react very badly to such a threat, and anyone in the world would know that.

  36. See my “Perhaps I’ve been reading too much ‘articles’ from Scotland” comment above Mahons.

    The Russians would react very badly to such a threat, and anyone in the world would know that

    Agreed Phantom, particularly over something as sensitive as Chechnya in the wake of the Beslan school atrocity and the Moscow Theatre Crisis. However the Daily Telegraph is a fairly credible organ.

  37. It is , so it is surprising that they would print such a thing.

    There’s a lot of misinformation out there, and even a credible newspaper will be fooled at times.

  38. Paul – Missed it at first.

  39. There’s a lot of misinformation out there, and even a credible newspaper will be fooled at times.

    That is a possibility – along with others.

  40. Paul McMahon –

    In Tower Hamlets. By my reading it was a neighbourhood just off Brick Lane. I suspect the headbangers were doing it right on their own doorstep too.

    That Telegraph piece about Russia and the Saudis – it sounds far fetched maybe, but it’s by Ambrose Evans-Pritchard and that makes me think there might be something to it. It’s not so much his integrity, but that he has excellent contacts.

  41. Tell me Troll, what is your opinion of fellow American & patriot David Duke?

  42. Pete Moore

    Totally agree with your 12.11 comment. I think the saying is that you reap what you sow.

  43. david duke is an asshole and should be castrated as to not pass his genes on to further generations, but then if were going to start writing the list of people who deserve that treatment, I’ll pass on the grounds that I would be visited by the guys in suits from more than one agency. And it would be rightly so.

    So we won’t go there. Now who wants to play stomp?

  44. I just listened to Rep Peter King from NY live on the radio arguing that Kerry and Obama are bullsh**ing with this pin prick nonsense “We are going to bomb Syria hard enough that Assad will have to come to the table to stop it”…..

    Another idiot from NY 🙂

  45. Peter

    Islam has been at war with the west and with all other religions since Day One in Saudi Arabia.

    The intensity varies, the conflict never ends.

  46. Russia is ten time more dangerous NOW than it was as the USSR. They are a country of half it’s former size and not only are they in possession of all the nukes and advanced weaponry that the for USSR possessed they have continued to modernize at an exponential rate over the last 8 years. Putin has revitalized both his naval and air assets while modernizing his missile technology.

    It is headed by the former head of the KGB, and Obama looks like a duck in the pond on opening day of hunting.

    Putin is taking control as the player on the block. During the cold war the soviets were basically except covertly or a little financially they were kept out of the core region. Now he’s running the table.

    He has set up an Airbase in Syria and has six destroyers at or around Syrian Docks. He is going to Supply both Iran and Syria with anti missile systems and good ones. The s-300 series soviet is a very capable system. There’s a ton of american tech that can get past it, but only American Tech. No one else has weapons systems that could get through it.

    So Putin puts pieces on the board that no russian leader before him was ever able to do and you believe that Russia is not the threat the USSR was…. 🙂 your right Russia is twice as dangerous as the Soviets ever could have been.

    Top it off with an idiot professor in the White House and it just gets worse.

  47. Peter — You told us Assad would soon be in exile in Moscow. What happened?

  48. So why all this stuff about ‘bomb Iran’, Troll? Clearly (according to you), Iran isn’t the problem. Russia is. It’s Russia who is supplying all the weapons, support and protection, so why bother going for the bit-players? Why not call for a bombing of Russia?

    Is it because they might put up a bit more of a fight?

  49. Peter — You told us Assad would soon be in exile in Moscow. What happened?

    Would you say he is safe where he is? And victorious? And (irrelevant I know) innocent of genocide and using germ warfare?

  50. Paul McMahon,….

    America is the greatest country on the earth, with the smartest most beautiful and most dangerous people to ever step foot on Terra firma, and Luna firma for that matter.

    Be awed and be grateful we exist, you all would have been someone else’s lunch decades ago if we hadn’t been there to hold the wolf at the door.

    Don’t underestimate the US just because we are led by idiots at the moment we are still the most powerful nation on the planet.

    Now kiss my ring

  51. No I just said that Russia was dangerous. Their just taking advantage of our void of power at the moment. To Putin it;s chess and he just put a rook on our side of the board.

    Iran is the head of the snake and will eventually have to be engaged. Whether we want to engage them or not. THEY want the engagement. Their crazy religious fanatics that think their god allah will protect them.

    They’ll be squished like the bugs they are. If not by us by the jews.

    It’s just a matter of when.

  52. Peter — You got that one badly wrong. I told you at the time there was no prospect of him going into exile.

  53. The Bush Doctrine* was “any and all nations that promote, harbor, or support terrorism will be considered enemy states, and will be dealt with from that perspective”.

    *Offer excludes Saudi Arabia.

    Home of almost all 911 hijackers. Home of Bin Laden, and the real terror mastermind Prince Bandar (bush). He who threatens western governments with terrorism (britian after BAE scandal and now russia).

  54. Russia is ten time more dangerous NOW than it was as the USSR. They are a country of half it’s former size and not only are they in possession of all the nukes and advanced weaponry that the for USSR possessed they have continued to modernize at an exponential rate over the last 8 years. Putin has revitalized both his naval and air assets while modernizing his missile technology.”

    “Putin is taking control as the player on the block.”

    Sounds like they are a bit more than ‘dangerous’, Troll. They are amassing warships in the area, setting up airbases, and arming your ‘enemy’.

    So why aren’t you advocating bombing them? Are you afraid of them?

  55. let me give you an example of what I mean.

    A couple of nights ago everyone north of Virgina at 11:23 you could see a plume in the Sky. Why?

    Because even though NASA was shut down by Obama there are some things that we still want to do and know. Private money funded and built a probe to orbit the moon. It will circle it several 100 times at about 20yds above the moon surface. Just because when we were there the dust acted funny and we want to know why.

    Think about that for a moment. Are private people anywhere in your country capable to expend the kinda resources that just out of pure curiosity can send a probe to the moon? No profit except knowledge. Even Branson god bless his soul couldn’t and wouldn’t do it.

    We lead. WE as a PEOPLE Do Not allow the current buffoonery to really deter us from anything we want to do. And we have proven over and over and over there is nothing that we can’t accomplish if we want to.

    You can Laugh at us, just pray to god your never a group that would incur the focus of us as a people in an unfriendly manner. We can reach a level uncivilized behavior very easily and our toys kill.

    In the end think of us during the days right after 9/11. That’s what you really have to worry about.

    It will take seconds after the next spilling of American blood to bring that focus back on line, and this Presidents actions and inaction’s has made the odds very good that we will be attacked.

    We look weak, but it’s an illusion. Push and find out.

  56. So Seimi you want Nuclear War? All those years of toe to toe didn’t educate you?

    The US and Russia will never go to war, both nations know there is no profit in it. There is profit however in playing chess with other nations blood. Always has been.

  57. Because even though NASA was shut down by Obama

    Hilarious nonsense.

  58. Do I want nuclear war? No. What a ridiculous thing to say.

    There is profit however in playing chess with other nations blood. Always has been.

    There it is. Your complete antipathy and disregard to and for the wellbeing and dignity of other human beings.

    I would be shocked if any of your fellow Americans on this site endorsed this view.

  59. Troll — Seimi is better and brighter than you. You look sillier and sillier conversing with him.

  60. no EP he made it into Muslim outreach group as their primary mission and scrapped all space flights.

    I understand you miss a lot. You always have.

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2010/07/07/nasas_muslim_outreach_106214.html

  61. There it is. Your complete antipathy and disregard to and for the wellbeing and dignity of other human beings.

    I would be shocked if any of your fellow Americans on this site endorsed this view.

    None of my fellow Americans on this blog would agree with my statements, however most Americans in MY COUNTRY would, and do.

  62. None of my fellow Americans on this blog would agree with my statements, however most Americans in MY COUNTRY would, and do.

    Which is why your Americans are in power…

  63. There is profit however in playing chess with other nations blood

    Troll – who profits?

    Bear in mind that a soldier who woke up wrote this:

    Like all the members of the military profession, I never had a thought of my own until I left the service. My mental faculties remained in suspended animation while I obeyed the orders of higher-ups. This is typical with everyone in the military service.

    I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras right for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested. Looking back on it, I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.

  64. Are you actually saying, Troll, that MOST Americans are happy to play games with the lives of other entire nations, in order to compete with the Russians?

    Or did you just misspell County?

  65. Peter — You got that one badly wrong. I told you at the time there was no prospect of him going into exile.

    You mean never, don’t you?

  66. Troll

    Nuke the lot. You know you want to, the Middle East is a cesspit, apart from Israel which can do no wrong ever.

  67. I ask you plain and honestly on 9/11 knowing that I AM the Ugly American….. Would you think on this day I would be anything other ?

  68. for you Peter

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGO42gvCSPI

  69. //Seimi is better and brighter than you. You look sillier and sillier conversing with him.//

    I think Seimi looks sillier and sillier conversing with Troll.

  70. Gee, thanks Noel… 🙂

  71. Erm …

    “Because even though NASA was shut down by Obama there are some things that we still want to do and know. Private money funded and built a probe to orbit the moon […]

    Think about that for a moment. Are private people anywhere in your country capable to expend the kinda resources that just out of pure curiosity can send a probe to the moon?”

    That’s a NASA launch. Doing rather well for an agency which has been shut down, eh?

    Yes, private actors could do likewise, but they choose not to because it’d be money down the drain.

  72. Pete

    NASA very much wants private space companies to succeed. They have given Elon Musk’s SpaceX operation full technical cooperation, and they awarded it a major contract to do supply runs to the International Space Station.

    They’re partners, not enemies.

  73. space exploration has given us the greatest advances in every field. to say that it is money down the drain is a display of massive ignorance…. lol

  74. Troll

    Which major study, as carefully reviewed, has led you to the conclusion that the Russian military of today has greater capabilities and is more dangerous than the military of the USSR at its peak?

    http://www.navytimes.com/article/20091127/NEWS01/911270323/Retired-admiral-says-Russia-losing-its-navy

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703678404575636412726670020.html

    http://press.princeton.edu/titles/8561.html

    ( Memo to the rest: The Russian Army and Navy are in serious decline, as every Russian and non Russian expert agrees )

  75. Seimi it is always better when nations battle via proxy, and if you study history you’ll find it’s been that way for centuries.

  76. Seimi it is always better when nations battle via proxy…

    I think you’ll find it’s usually better when nations don’t battle at all…

  77. this was a piece from 10 years ago

    http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/FG23Ag01.html

    If you read it you’ll see where Russia was. Putin has spent the past 10 years modernizing.

    this was 2 years ago

    http://defensetech.org/2011/02/25/russia-planning-10-year-640-billion-military-modernization/

    here is a view that splits both of our views from a group I read

    http://www.stratfor.com/video/russian-military-modernization-agenda

    read this pdf

    http://www.nipp.org/Publication/Downloads/Downloads%202012/Schneider%20Russian%20strategic%20forces%20talkingpoints%20-.pdf

  78. true Seimi

    but can you tell me when there has ever been a time when nations did not battle?

  79. Troll,

    Not all nations battle all the time. Some of them engage in this crazy thing they call ‘Peace’. It’s probably an unfamiliar term to you, but perhaps you should give it a go sometime, instead of constantly calling for the bombing of others.

  80. As I have said before – ‘It is much better to shake hands, than to shake fists at each other!’

  81. War will always be with us, but we can and should avoid it whenever it is possible to do so. While being ready for it.

    Sounds peurile, but its true.

    Speak softly, and carry a big stick.

  82. when has there ever been peace? It’s a nice idea, but mankind has yet to achieve it in it;s entire history.

    Nations even friendly nations have always spied on each other, always looked for the upper hand.

    Even when we are not hacking each other to bits the tribes of man are always at war with each other and internally amongst themselves.

    How long has france and britain fought? Do you think that just because they are not lined up cannon to cannon that they are at peace?

    It is not an Advocation of war to admit that man is in a constant state of it. It is the sad reality that doesn’t seem to be ending anytime soon.

  83. Be awed and be grateful we exist, you all would have been someone else’s lunch decades ago if we hadn’t been there to hold the wolf at the door

    Magnificent stuff. Your delusions of granduer, over indulgent sense of self importance and ego are only matched in size by your desperate craving for attention.

    As I said, the rantings of a spoilt child. I’m sure your fellow countrymen & women are proud of you.

  84. It is not an Advocation of war to admit that man is in a constant state of it.

    No, it isn’t. But to call for your country to bomb another country on at least a weekly basis is, don’t you think?

  85. not if there is just cause.

  86. thank you Paul…. now kiss my ring