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TORTURING THE TRUTH…….

By ATWadmin On November 4th, 2006

I’ll be taking part in a BBC Ulster studio debate on "Sunday Sequence" tomorrow morning @ 8.30am with a certain Moazzem Begg – who is giving an Amnesty International lecture in Belfast tonight.

Mr Beggs was detained at Guantanamo Bay – as a suspected Al Qu’eda terrorist – but Blair and his pleadings got him and a few other out. You can read about Mr Beggs here – isn’t he sooo unlucky? I mean he is obviously an innocent man – whose only hobby appears to be collecting night-vision goggles, bullet proof vests and extremist Islamist literature. He has also attended terrorist training camps, as he freely admits, but just to observe. He was curious.

Beggs makes serious claims of "torture" against the US authorities at Gitmo. I seem to remember that recovered Al Queda terrorist training manuals specifically instruct their members to allege mistreatment and torture.

The discussion will revolve around "torture" and we may also be joined by Col Tim Collins.

As readers will know, my views are simple.

1. We are at war with militant Islam, and since 9/11, Madrid, Bali, London – we know what these savages are capable of doing. All legal measures should be taken to prevent further massacres, and tough interrogation of militant Islamists has already saved innocent lives.

2. Torture is an emotive term, dredged up by Islamists to appeal to the western liberals who run the MSM. The US does not torture, and does not break its laws, but rigorous interrogation practises must be used. The fact that Jihadi are agitating to blacken the US is old news. Shows the interrogation works!

3. The concept of the greater good is relevant here. Tough interrogation is vital to  ensure we squeeze ANY pertinent information out of alleged Jihadists. It serves the greater good. Moral relativists such as Amnesty like to muddy the water here. I am fully in favour of what Dick Cheney and President Bush say in this regard.

So, I will elaborate on this tomorrow morning!

28 Responses to “TORTURING THE TRUTH…….”

  1. David,

    For those of us on the west side of the pond, how soon after the broadcast is the "Listen Again" available?

  2. My God, David! Going up against a bad apple like that at 8:30 am. May you give him the verbal equivilant of a water boarding!

  3. David
    There’s no moral relativity at all.
    You don’t do evil, so that good may come.
    Romans 3:8
    "Let us do evil, that good may come?" Those who say so are justly condemned.

  4. Sir Percy,

    1. Hiroshima.
    2. Dresden.

    Evil is your term – necessity mine.

    Alan,

    I assume within an hour or two – around 11am GMT?

  5. Sir Percy,

    So, by your interpretation, protecting yourself and family is now ‘doing evil’..

    I am sure that elsewhere in the Bible it also says that we are duty bound to protect those in our care. If it doesn’t – then it should. There is something in that tome for everyone to cherry pick, to use for their own ends and relative moral convenience.

    We are being attacked with ‘extreme predjudice’, and you feel a worthy defence is to turn the other cheek or to intimidate the enemy with a ‘superior’, if somewhat arrogant attitude.

    All rather unrealistic wouldn’t you say?

  6. David,

    Thanks for the link to the Wiki article on Begg. It lead me to this PBS interview:

    http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/230/index.html

    Seems like quite a nice chap (not a bad apple, Chas). You two should get on smashingly!

  7. Alan,

    Thanks for that link – I’ll recognise him when I see him tomorrow morning.

    As for his being a nice chap, I understand Osama bin Laden was also a kindly gentle soul. You know the rest!

  8. Unusually and not for the first time I whole-heartedly agree with the sentiments expressed by D.V. On a not dissimilar note tomorrow see’s the verdict in the trial of our dear muslim friend, Saddam Hussein, http://irelandsfew.blogspot.com, he as everyone in possession of a T.V will know didn,t stop at (Torturing the Truth). As for Amnesty International if they had anything to do with his sentence, should he be found guilty, would in all probably give him an ASBO possibly even community service. I should know because I was for a time a member – not any more.

  9. There’s no stopping you these days David 😉
    Did you see you and ATW made the Belfast Telegraph on Thursday?

    http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/features/story.jsp?story=712718

  10. Quote : He has also attended terrorist training camps, as he freely admits, but just to observe.

    Tempting to say : Observe this ….. Wallop….

  11. Aha!! Thanks for that Madradin Ruad. Would you care to illuminate me as to the following,"Former ally of MLA Bob McCartney"?.

  12. David,
    The Common Law by which we all live is here virtually as long as Islam, the guts of a thousand years

    Always remember, better ten guilty men go free than one innocent man is found guilty.

    .

  13. as long as Islam exists I mean, not as long as we live under Islam.

  14. Go get ‘im, David!

  15. I wonder how long it will be untill Mr. Beggs gets ellected to office over there….

  16. Monica,
    he has already been got, chewed up and spat out. David is merely feasting on the scraps. I just hope he remembers the virtues of his culture more than the vices of his enemy. Don’t be angry David….

  17. Ernest and David, what I mean is: where do we draw the line here?
    When you have a phoney invasion based on lies, a 9/11 comission that covered up many questions, you have to ask, how much are we prepared to abandon morality ie our good standards, in the pursuit of something supposdly Good.?
    What happens is you get so tangled up in wrong that the whole enterprise becomes wrong, and you forget who you’re fighting and who the enemy is,

    That’s what the recent guardian poll hints at.

    Look at the mess in Iraq. Is anyone proud of our achievements? I leave it to an old respected Tory, who said that we always manage the middle east from a hands off position as its so delicate to our oil interests and the protection of our Israli friends,
    .
    We don’t invade them, we prop em up when we fancy. Now that’s not wholly ethical, but its a darned site better than sending in a Posse, with no after-plan.

  18. Well put, Garfield.

  19. Sir Percy your an ASS

    Saddams regime was destroyed because it was a suporter of terrorism period. You can not find a quote any where made by GW Bush that said anything more than that before the war The whole WMD thing was stated by the Dems to justify their votes, as for that though I gues the thousands of canasters of nerve gas and the 1.7 TONS of REFINED URANIUM that were found in Iraq don’t count or the recent discovery that in the documents that that were posted on the net from the Iraqi inteligence archives the IAEA is no have coniptions over because amongst those documents are the complete plans to build a nuke…OOPS Bush Lied people died… Chamberlain apeased and millions were exterminated

  20. The troll
    False, false, false. Syria, Iran are supporters of terrorism. The Niger Uranium was a lie, and they sacked the CIA guy, and illegally outed his wife.

    Saddam was no worse than most of these states,, but that’s to miss the point anyway. No WMD NO links to Al-Qaida, except now of course, so you can kid yourself all you like that Saddams a Hitler and Bush is Churchill, but aside from a few narrow-minded neo-cons its a cheap desperate attempt to pull something good out of a TOTAL disaster, and the sooner you start admitting it the better for all of us. Bush/Blair in Denial. Too much ego here to loose face,

  21. oh I guess those checks for $25,000 that Saddam gave to the family of every pally suicide bomber don’t count or the Boeing 757 he had there just to train hijackers…

    As for Mr. Wilson ya git He was never in the CIA he was a failed ambassador and 4 years of federal investigation proved no crime was commited when ARMATAGE an anti-iraq war proponant from the State Department under Colin Powel released his wifes name to the press NOT the Administration ya idiot….

    The fact is that 1.7 TONS of REFINED URANIUM was removed from Iraq I guess they were going to make glow in the dark watches with it huh…

    And what you call total disaster millions of Iraqies call freedom. in over 3 years of war only 3000 dead american soldiers god bless them (more were killed in single days in WWII) 3 national elections, and an inclusive representative govt, the only government in the ME that is made up of 25% woman, 7000 new schools built, schools that allow woman to go and learn and not out of the koran, 85% of the country is peacfull only 2 major areas that are hot spots 1 controlled by former Saddam loyalists and the other by an Iranian puppet…

    Sir Percy your a git who cant think or do his own research you spit out talking points that have been flushed away before, you are exactly the type of person that Bin Laden and Imamadjihad love a usefull european idiot

  22. Charles,
    If a Texan agrees with me, we must be at war. I feel stronger already.

    When times are dark, I always remember why I in my bones I expect, hell demand, a right to light.

    My upbringing and my culture (in the dirty separatist part of Ireland) instilled in me this right and I won’t give away part of it just to hand somebody from another part of the globe a bloody nose.

    That is simply juvenile. Sure they make me angry but I don’t feel threatened or afraid of them. I don’t even think of them.

    If I don’t beat them, my children or my children’s children will. If not, we’ll die trying.

    People can be afraid or even very afraid if they want but, hey the Red Army could have made it to the Atlantic Ocean in 6 days if it wanted. And they really had weapons of Mass Destruction.

    In the meantime, I shall bask in the light and enjoy every minute. Life is too short to sell out principles your society has held for a millenium for some bozo whose name I have already forgotten while writing this post.

    I bet David will even have to look up his name over coffee in the morning with his coffee.

  23. Troll,
    Don’t get me wrong, the serving men and women of the USA and GB are doing a fine job, I’m very proud of them.
    I’m saying its lions led by donkeys.

  24. Troll,

    Why do you insist on saying
    "You can not find a quote any where made by GW Bush that said anything more than that before the war The whole WMD thing was stated by the Dems to justify their votes"?

    Just go to
    http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/10/20021007-8.html
    where Bush mentions WMD in every paragaph of his speech!

  25. David, you say that the U.S. military doesn’t torture. Whatever. My understanding is that every army in the world–and every police force come to that–regularly uses torture, for better or worse.

    In the case of Al-Qaida it was probably for better.

    Great luck with the debate this morning. I’ll be rooting for you as ever.

  26. Alan McDonald,

    Hasn’t this week’s revelations by the New York Times, rather shattered your delusions about the whole ‘Bush lied’ theory.

    In an effort to damage Bush they have admitted to knowing that Iraq had the means, and the will, and the intention to build WMD, and probably had WMD. It also gives quite specific links between Saddam and Al Quaeda.

    The link below has a precis of the Times article. I was rather surprissed that this significant revelation did not receive more attention in the UK media, it has been all over the US press for the past week.

    http://instapundit.com/archives/033723.php

  27. Ernest,

    Thank you for calling my attention to the NY Times article:
    http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/03/world/middleeast/03documents.html?ei=5090&en=ba99ceafb0f67900&ex=1320210000&adxnnl=1&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&adxnnlx=1162823782-YIZ+sgOmvwNT6qDo+cSjfA

    Turns out it reinforces my opinion that the Bush administration will give away nuclear secrets to our enemies for short term political gain.

    "The director of national intelligence, John D. Negroponte, had resisted setting up the Web site, which some intelligence officials felt implicitly raised questions about the competence and judgment of government analysts. But President Bush approved the site’s creation after Congressional Republicans proposed legislation to force the documents’ release."

    Since you seem to like stories about stories rather than the original article, please see:
    http://mediamatters.org/items/200611040016
    "Gibson and Campbell misrepresented NY Times article, with Gibson asserting, ‘The New York Times just said today Saddam had nukes’"

    If I might sum up, thanks once again for the pointing me to the article which REINFORCES my observation that Bush lied just as you, FOX News and the right-wing blogosphere lie.

  28. "Turns out it reinforces my opinion that the Bush administration will give away nuclear secrets to our enemies for short term political gain."

    Good thing they don’t live in Israel. Otherwise they might fall foul of the same justice system that condemned nuclear physicist Mordechai Vanunu to 18 years’ imprisonment, nearly 12 of which in solitary.

    His crime? Telling the world that Israel was developing the atomic bomb.

    This is a far cry, of course, from putting up a website offering terrorists detailed instructions on how to BUILD such a bomb.

    Er…