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By ATWadmin On November 5th, 2006

Just back at ATW central having had my early morning debate with Moazzem Begg and Lt Tim Collins on "Sunday Sequence"!

I must say that William Crowley, the host of this programme and his team are most pleasant and it is a serious minded programme. The topics are always stimulating and I do enjoy being able to make a contribution. I am normally in a minority of one on the topics discussed, since liberalism is the creed of the day, but that’s the name of the game on the BBC, as you know.

 As ever the time on-air flies by so quickly, and I got only a fraction of what I wanted to say broadcast.

So here’s my full unabridged take.

1. I don’t believe any of the lurid allegations that Mr. Begg makes about the treatment handed out to him at Gitmo. Unsubstantiated fantasies, I’m afraid – but it plays well in lefty world of the BBC. As I did point during the programme, it is know that  Al Queda train their operatives to allege TORTURE and abuse. They understand the value of propaganda.

2. Robust Interrogation conducted within the Laws of the USA is fine by me. Dick Cheney is on record stating that the US does not use torture and I accept that. I also believe that if we can prevent future 9/11’s by being tough with the Islamic combatants interned in Gitmo we must do so.

3. We are AT WAR with Islamic terrorists. During the programme, William seemed uneasy when I said this. I repeat it – we are AT WAR with Islamic terrorists. What’s the big deal in stating the obvious here. Should I state we are at war with people "who just happen to be devout Islamists" and who want to kill us?

4. Amnesty Internationa’s elite may hate the US – and when it’s Secretary General Irene Khan compares Guantanamo to the Gulags, you KNOW the lefties have lost the plot! (Check out the respective death tolls)I’m sure Mr Beggs got a standing ovation for his US- loathing comments at this Amnesty International last night. I did challenge the local Amnesty International representative off-air to allow someone (E.G Me!)who takes ISSUE with the current Amnesty International agenda to give next year’s lecture – now that WOULD show they have some courage. But they don’t. I dare say if Bin Laden flew in tomorrow they would be queueing up to book him. ("Tell us about your pain Osama of having to leave your favourite cave due to those cruel US bombs") 

So, another day another debate! You will be able to listen again to it if you click here and go to Sunday Sequence! Not sure when they post today’s programme but it should be there later on. 

21 Responses to “BACK FROM THE BBC…”

  1. Cheney is also on record for saying that waterboarding is a "no brainer", a technique that has been outlawed in the US well over a century. I suppose it all boils down to what is perceived as torture. If you don’t believe that waterboarding is torture (dunking people into water to the point of drowning over and over again) then you are not torturing when you do it.

  2. Watcher,

    Like the BBC, you need to get the facts right, Cheney did NOT say water-boarding was a "no brainer". He said that "a dunk in the water was a no-brainer" in response to comment phoned in by listeners to a radio programme he was a guest on. Foaming at the mouth liberals believe "a dunk in the water" IS water-boarding. Makes you wonder how they approach taking a bath…!

  3. Hiding behind semantics – When you read the exercept there is no confusion, considering the conversation at that point centered on torture, what ‘a dunk in the water’ meant.

    It was a political ploy by Cheney leading up to mid-terms to help consolidate and motivate a sagging and demoralized base to support one of the most scandal-ridden modern day US administrations.

  4. Gosh – maybe Dunkin’ Donuts need to change that name..it’s torture walking by those outlets when you’re on a diet.

  5. Glib, meaningless and expected

  6. Watcher,

    What IS meaningless is when you come onto this site and annouce that Dick Cheney has said something of which you have not a SHRED of evidence. Along with the rest of the left, you think that just by something often enough, you make it true. WRONG.

    Your ignorance as to what the Vice President said is unsurprising, as is your knowledge of US elections. If you want to talk about "scandals" I refer you to the Clintonian years. Tell me, what is the meaning of the word "is"?

  7. david can we do an ATW demonstration sometime? im sure youd be happy to be waterboarded, and thus dispel the myth once and for all that a little dunk could be considered torture.

  8. <i>What IS meaningless is when you come onto this site and annouce that Dick Cheney has said something of which you have not a SHRED of evidence. </i>

    I get the feeling that nothing I post would be considered as "evidence". The defintion of the word evidence seems to flucuate as much as the word torture with certain people.

    <i>Along with the rest of the left, you think that just by something often enough, you make it true. WRONG.</i>

    I agree with you that the left has being doing this (I try not to) but they learnt this apparently successful technique from the republicians who, it can be argued, use it with seemingly wild abandon.

    <i>Your ignorance as to what the Vice President said is unsurprising, as is your knowledge of US elections.</i>

    I wouldn’t trust Cheney if he shot me in the face.

    <i>If you want to talk about "scandals" I refer you to the Clintonian years. Tell me, what is the meaning of the word "is"? </>

    Clintons years in office were marked with a significant number of scandals. The majority of these scandals though could not reach the current US Admins – news planting, Jeff Gannon, the handling and torture and destruction of Iraq, Plamegate, Coingate, K street, gerry mandering os districts (eg Texas, Oil companies making more profit whilst gas prices were crossing the $3.00 mark, the hyprocisy of gay republician leaders being ousted… the list really does go on and on.

    The biggest scandal is the growth in the natural debt under Bush. I posted more info on another story here, but debt has grown by 49.9% (approx 2.8 trillion) in the time Bush has been in power. Tax cuts seem such a good idea now dont they. To anyone who has had to get rid of credit card debt the formula is simple – spend less and pay of your debt or you will go bankrupt. Think of the international repercussions of a bankrupt US economy – it would spark a world wide recession.

  9. Watcher, your an ASS

    Poeple such as you ar an even bigger threat to us than the paedofile(Mohammed) worshipping cretins!!!

  10. Troll – good start. Its not surprising considering the current predisposition amongst the Republicians concerning ass be that outlawing against those who enjoy it or actively getting a bit themselves.

    Seriously though does the issue with national debt not worry you? There can be no real emotion concerning federal financial issues considering the numbers I am using are coming directly from the federal government. You and I may not have to pay this debt back but our children probably will have to. This undoubtedly will their life all the harder for it. This is really scarey as we are talking about the increased financial hardship of billions of people within the US. Do you consider this as an issue to get worked up about or are you on your 5th maxed out credit card facing foreclosure on your house?

  11. Troll here is what I posted on the other story – please provide your perspective on this.

    The current US debt at the end of Oct of this year is – $8,584,329,355,565.37 (http://www.publicdebt.treas.gov/opd/opdpenny.htm)

    On Jan 21 2001 the national debt was $5,727,776,738,304.64 (http://www.publicdebt.treas.gov/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/~www/opdpen.cgi)

    Overall this is an increase of $2,856,552,617,260.73 or an increase on the 2001 by 49.9%. Bush’s own Office of Management and Budget, in their 200 budget, report that the growth of debt, in relation to GDP, will be the highest in over 47 years.

    What does this all mean? Bush’s administration has spent and spent exploiting the federal credit card to the where the US owes over a trillion dollars to China and other competitors to the US. The current administration doesn’t really care as they will be long gone when this mess needs to be cleaned up.

    I have always believed that no foreign power, no terrorist org and no disaster (natural or otherwise) can destory the US. The only thing that could would be from within – in this case BUsh’s spending is crippling the US economy for decades to come. Any short term boosts need to be measured by the longterm disaster pending. What a mess.

  12. Watcher, I agree that the only things that can destroy my country are my countrymen. As to the national debt, 2 points.

    1. The amount has risen in real dollars, but it is at hisorical lows, are at least in line, as a percent of GDP. Sorry, but i don’t have time to google a reference.

    2. We are at war, and have been since 2001, as well as had Katrina, the largest natural disaster in US history. That would nessesitate a short term rise in debt. However, with the cut of tax rates, increased dolllars are pouring in the the Treasury. Bush promised to cut the yearly deficit in half in 5 years, and did it in half the time.

  13. Oh and David, Well Done! Have yourself a whiskey on me. (Use the good stuff, life’s to short to drink cheap booze.)

  14. Hi Charles

    As a % of GDP both Bush presidents have increased this percentage – http://zfacts.com/p/318.html

    A quote from the site says:
    "The national debt peaked at 120% of GDP in 1946 due to the war effort, but Roosevelt, Truman, Ike, Kennedy, LBJ, Nixon, and Carter all did their part to bring the national debt back to pre-war levels. By the beginning of 1981, the national debt had fallen to 32.5% of GDP. Then, Reagan took office and the national debt took off. It rose non-stop for 12 years to 66.3% at the end of Bush’s term, erasing 25 years of progress in paying down the national debt."

    Zfacts comes across as skeptical of a lot of Bush’s policies. It’s written by a scientist and maybe he’s getting back at the anti-global warming, intelligent design administration that is currently in place. I did check the info from the treasury site and they seem to match up but I can’t be 100% certain. Just trying to be honest.

  15. Watcher is worried about the national debt when we are facing a huge threat and fighting a war? Sorry, hon. We’ve got bigger fish to fry. I support my leaders who, #1 acknowledge and understand that we are fighting a war and, #2 are committed to winning that war.

    I would recommend seeing ‘Obsession’ – it aired on FoxNews last night and will air again tonight. You can find my review of it and many details on my blog.

    David – good for you. I am glad that you were able to get a couple of very important points in. I will check the link out to watch it after I get home from work tonight.

  16. Well, I thought you stole the show, David. Well done. I loved it where you asked Begg whether he agreed that Sheikh Kaled Mohammed was a terrorist and he couldn’t answer. He’s obviously still shilling for AQ and I think that question combined with your swift follow up really nailed him. A rare conservative win on the BBC I feel.

  17. Here’s my take on this: Torture will become routine in the interrogation of terrorist suspects within the next five years. And I mean torture, not waterboarding or dunking as Cheney prefers to call it.

    The next terrorist atrocity will lead to new legislation in both Britain and the USA which will allow the use of torture for the greater good. And I would support that, with certain legal safeguards.

    Here’s an interesting article by Nick Cohen in today’s Observer:

  18. Sorry, that Nick Cohen link is here:


  19. Monica the war could last anywhere up to 20 yrs – this debt and the issues connected to paying it back will last longer and will effect the lives of more Americans. Why do people not recognize the threat of debt until they are too far in?

  20. The debt though does have another side to it – you wouldn’t outwardly be hostile to those who you owe the most money – right now for the US that’s China. China is the one who has saddled up with both Iran and Chavez in Venezula. What I am getting at MOnica is that your debt influences your foreign policy and your ability to fight the war on terror.

  21. Oh! Nice twist, Watcher – bringing the Chi-Comms into it. lol!

    Well NOW you have my attention. (You’re good)