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READ THIS – THE LOOK OF PEACE

By ATWadmin On November 13th, 2007

Paul20Quinn.jpgGet a glimpse as to what REALLY happens in peace process land…

Lord Laird alleged that Paul Quinn’s brutal murder "resulted from a dispute between Paul and a son of Vincent Traynor, a local IRA chief".  He added: "Paul Quinn and some other youths from the area were involved in activities which did not go down with senior republican leadership in south Armagh, especially as this new breed of republicans are defying the leadership. It is now quite clear that Vincent had oversold the case against Paul. Several weeks ago Traynor asked the republican leadership, which included Peter and Patrick Quinn – no relation – who run most of the illegal fuel laundering plants in south Armagh for the IRA, to have Quinn executed.

 

"After consulting with PJ Caraher and his son Michael, who is a well-known murderous sniper, Thomas ‘Slab’ Murphy, the Provisionals’ commander in the area, and Sean Gerard Hughes, known as ‘the Surgeon’, permission for the execution was given. Almost 20 republicans were present at the murder as executioners, look-outs, drivers etc. The eight or nine who conducted the execution were dressed in boiler suits and wore surgical gloves. All were IRA or former IRA members. It took almost half an hour for Paul to die. Every major bone in his body was broken. During the execution he cried for mercy."

No mercy was shown. That’s the way it is with the IRA.

My only question is this; why are the DUP still sitting in power with the IRA? Have they NO morality left?

65 Responses to “READ THIS – THE LOOK OF PEACE”

  1. Here’s another question. Why are BBC news continuing to totally ignore this story on both their bulletins and their website?

    And the outcome? That’s easy to predict: No arrests, no charges, no convictions. In other words, business as usual.

  2. I was glad to see at least a progression towards the truth of this incident. Perhaps the allegations will move someone to saying enough.

  3. Murder with impunity is the only game in town. This is a non-story – it was a non-life. Such a disgrace.

  4. Jesus wept. That poor young man.

  5. It’s possible that the DUP sitting tight will do Sinn Fein more harm than good in the long run. They won’t be able to talk about exclusion or "not having a Catholic about the place" or any of that.

    The nationalist community will have a choice to make. On policy there is very little practical difference between Sinn Fein and the SDLP. But the SDLP have been consistent and principled opponents of violence from all sides while Sinn Fein are part of the Republican Movement which also includes the IRA.

    They reserve the right to beat you to death if you cross them.Or your son or your brother or your mother.

    They won’t shoot you because they don’t want anybody to say they broke their ceasfire. Hardly the peace dividend we were expecting.

  6. "I was glad to see at least a progression towards the truth of this incident"

    We are no nearer to the truth, this is absolute nonsense and lies on Laird’s behalf.

  7. Chris, Is it possible Laird could be right? You don’t even seem to take a wait and see approach.

  8. Chris: What portions of his allegations do you dispute?

  9. Charles: Wrong question, anything is possible. Let us see if there are any factual issues raised in reply to the allegations. Mr. Gaskin has not yet raised one.

  10. "Chris, Is it possible Laird could be right?"

    No

    This "information" was supplied to Laird by the same criminal elements who are trying to create a sense of confusion and discord.

    Laird admitted himself that these people contacted him, they have their own motivations for doing this.

    Added to the fact that I know quite a few of those mentioned, I don’t believe a word of this bullshit.

  11. Mahons, from what I’ve read of Laird’s statement, he names names, and lays out the skeleton of a story line. Chris is concerned that the presumption of guilt is not being afforded the named men, and that doing this in a leguslative branch smacks of bill of attainder days.

  12. "presumption of guilt"

    I think you mean presumption of innocence, what annoys me most is that Laird did this under PP. If he was so convinced and had evidence to support this he would have done this in public where the law of torts come in to play

  13. Mr Mahons, your witness…

  14. Chris, whoops! Freudian slip!

  15. Chris trots out the shinner line with his usual diligence.

    But we are being asked to believe that this young man was brutally murdered by a large gang in a totally republican-dominated area and that no republicans had any part in it.

    And that his recent run-in with republicans had nothing to do with it.

    And that if it was a dispute about fuel smuggling, that no republicans are involved in that trade.

    And that Lord Laird is being manipulated by "criminal elements" who again have no republican connections.

    Really?

  16. Chris,

    Lord Laird is a buffoon and I am wary of anything he says.

    Nevertheless, he has laid out his opinion of what could have happened (based on the info he says he received).

    It’s about time someone from the republican movement gave their version – without resorting to the cowardly naming of names behind parliamentary privilege.

    There’s a gang of murderers on the loose and they need to be caught.

  17. These names were not pulled from a hat – ask paul quinns family, friends or even those who lived close to him and they will not be surprised these names have emerged.
    charles your right the skeleton of the story has been laid and i hope its investigated and those responsible are brought to justice.
    Adams was so adamant there was no ira involvement yet before making his statement he did not even contact the quinn family to inquire about the nature of the threats paul recieved.
    it is so easy for him and conor murphy to claim no ira involvement yet they never came to cullyhanna and spoke to the people on the street or at the wake or at the funeral – how ironic that the local sf representitive did not visit the wake home, attend the funeral or contact his family since his death.

    It was a finely planned murder and i still believe only a gang such as the ira could carry it out.
    I do not agree with violence but jail does not even seem punishment enough for such an act – having said that i will feel safer if these animals are locked up.
    lord laird’s observation on the new breed of republicans who will not abide by bully tactics etc is correct.
    It is not mere coincidence that after paul quinn crossed serveral of those named he recieved warnings to leave the country and after defying them ended up dead.
    r.i.p paulo quinn – you should not have suffered the way you did, no one should.

  18. One thing I don’t understand about Laird’s statement is that he says he is not poisening any potential jury pool. Since his statement is extrajudicial and covered under pp, I think a case could be made that his statement does more harm than good for the eventual conviction of the perps.

  19. Charles,

    That Laird has to do this says it all. I wonder WHY the PSNI are so quiet, nothing to say at all for some odd reason. There is a sickening silence in the air – meanwhile the young man lies in his grave.

  20. Charles: The presumption of innocence was created for the courtroom where we place the burden of proof on the government because of its vast resources when compared to the individual. It is a proper standard for the courtroom. It is not a prohibition against the common sense of the general public.

    The libel laws and journalistic codes in the UK are quite different than our own, a consideration this Lord Laird obviously took into consideration. His allegations appear to be quite detailed, whatever their source or motivation.

    Chris has indicated he knows quite a few of those mentioned, and without more suggests that this is somehow dispositive. I don’t see how. Did they all attend a bird-watching tour in Spain at the time of the incident, are they renowned pacifists of longstanding, where they all knitting a peace quilt in the public square before hundreds of witnesses when the murder took place?

    More details will obviously come out and we shall see what transpires, although I have some fear that there will never be a serious prosecution in this case.

  21. i fear the psni are failing to investigate this murder properly – these names where given to them within days of the murder during there house to house calls – yet none of those mentioned were questioned.
    i do however feel the gards south of the border are working hard – they have requested anyone who knew paul to come forward as they try to get a picture of the life he led etc and also info on the altercations which led to the threatds against him. lets hope they suceed

  22. David, And the fact that I look towards the eventual conviction of the perps shows my faith in the system bordering on naivite!

  23. SICK

  24. Lily,

    Like you, I would put my faith in the Gards rather than the see-no-evil PSNI who are manipulated by their political masters.

  25. Thanks for that explanation Mahons. Point of order though. If anyone were indicted, would it be a jury trial? I would fear aquittal due to an unspoken intimitation of jurors.

  26. If anyone were indicted, would it be a jury trial?

    Since the crime was committed in the ROI would it not likely be dealt with in the <A href="http://courts.ie/Courts.ie/Library3.nsf/pagecurrent/41C06A30E5FEDA7B80256D870050508C">Special criminal court, a court in the ROI specifically set up to try people for terrorist activities. That of course would depend on whether the crime was considered terrorist in nature I suppose.

  27. Sorry, must have messed up that link

    Special Criminal Court

  28. Thanks Kloot. That was very informative.

  29. For what its worth I know off one of the guys. A relative of mine (we all have them!) did time with one of them, and since I know what he was in for, I can tell you these are known republicans of long standing.

    Anybody want to sing the snipers promise?

  30. I thought that the IRA/Sinn Fein were changed?

  31. I think that Lord Laird’s comments of today were totally unsubstantiated and are both a hinderence and insult to Paul Quinn’s family. Laird seems to have a strong fuel laundering and anti-republican agenda vis a vie his common references to the Quinn brothers involvement in fuel smuggling for the ira. Anyone with any understanding of the fuel smuggling industry knows, that despite media coverage to the contrary the ira does organise or control this activity, in fact the Quinn brothers are borderline pensioners who partake in small scale farming and due to investigative research I can confidently conclude that they have had no nor are involved in any fuel smuggling for the ira.

  32. sorry does not control or organise fuel smuggling

  33. OJ, I mean Francie, pray tell where does your investigative research lead you to in terms of identity of the actual killers?

    I presume that having the ability to provide us with the definitive occupations of two random old age pensioner-farmers that an 8-10 man gang could not possibly operate without you being able to identify them. We await your findings sir.

  34. Lily The Gards! Dear me, is this the Police Force that stood by while the British Embassy was burned down! The same force from where details of the travel movements of Lord Justice Gibson and his wife found their way to the IRA leading to their murder?
    Why do you think virtually all the IRA arms dumps were in the Republic, and not Northern Ireland where the conflict was taking place? Less chance of the Gards finding them? I know of a catholic police officer in Northern Ireland given such a hard time by the Prod officers, he spent 42 years in the RUC, a British record for a police officer and ended up as Deputy Chief Constable Michael McAtamney.There are virtually no Protestants in the Garda Siochana.

  35. Mahon I thank you for your sardonic comment however my research was conducted over two years ago when in june 2005 Laird first used parliamentary privelege to besmirch the name of the Quinn brothers. I do endeavour to pursue the individuals involved in Paul Quinn’s death.

  36. Francie: Godspeed!

  37. Well Mahons Typhoo seems to have definitively identified the gangs as "known republicans of long standing" based on the assumption that she "knows of one of them"

    Francie’s investigative research in reverse?, yet no sarcastic castigation for Typhoo how strange.

  38. I don’t care whether the men who did this are Republicans or not, the only fact we all know is that a gang of men willfully beat and tortured a young man to death. If no-one is convicted and caged for this crime it will be a stain on both parts of the Island.

  39. Paul: I know I seem all-seeing to you but I can’t get to everything.

    Typhoo’s comment actually didn’t address the guilt or innocence of the named parties for this particular atrocity. Her comment was that one of the named individuals, albeit unnamed by her, did time with some "friend", and hence she believes that person to be a "republican of longstanding". Surely the designation of someone as a republican of longstanding is not a libel to you!

    Since she didn’t then conclude that they must be guilty, I viewed her comment as one which I didn’t feel the need to address. She’s also become something of a regular on this site and I’ll have time to discuss things with her.

    Francie, on the other hand, is a name I am not aware of having regularly graced these pages. His pronouncements, while conclusory, had the hint of some effort beyond Mr. Gaskin’s its all bullshit, and therefore I was curious to his self-described investigative work might be. And they seem thus far to be less than persuasive.

  40. Paul -why are SF/republican supporters so invested in the belief that this wasn’t IRA or rogue IRA members? And if Lord Laird is so full of it, couldn’t it easily be demonstrated that he’s wrong considering the details he gave?

  41. >>Her comment was that one of the named individuals, albeit unnamed by her, did time with some "friend", and hence she believes that person to be a "republican of longstanding"<<

    mahons, in fact, all the named individauls are household names in Ireland and known to be "longstanding" Republicans.

    If sure you’ll be able to find enough on PJ and Michael Caraher, Slab Murphy, and ‘the Surgeon’, Sean Gerard Hughes even on Google.

    Maybe this is even where Laird got his information.

  42. Lord Lairds speech. Timed at 7.02PM

    http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200708/ldhansrd/text/71112-0010.htm

  43. Noel -but Francie told me two of them are just old pensioners who partake in part time farming. I am confused. Would an IRA supporter …not…tell…the…whole…truth? I’ve got to warn Gerry Adams!

    p.s. thanks for the information.

  44. Unless I’ve read it incorrectly Mahons Francies 7.00 didn’t address the Quinn brother’s guilt in this particular atrocity either but rather spoke in more general terms regarding the brothers alleged involvement in fuel smuggling?

    Correct, I wouldn’t consider the term long standing Republican libellous, but, taken in context with Lards allegations, surely the inference is that as they are long standing Republicans then the implication must be guilt, i.e. guilt by association?

    This inference was made by Typhoo on the grounds that she “knows of one of them” and while Typhoos entitled to her views I find the fact that while you seemingly choose to accept Typhoos prima facie evidence at face value while discounting Francies alleged investigative research out of hand somewhat inconsistent.

    “Paul -why are SF/republican supporters so invested in the belief that this wasn’t IRA or rogue IRA members?

    I don’t know Mahons, but I’m willing to concede that it is a possibility that past, present or rogue IRA members may have been involved in Paul Quinns murder. I’m willing to concede that possibility but it dosen’t make it a certainty as all here seem to think.

    “And if Lord Laird is so full of it, couldn’t it easily be demonstrated that he’s wrong considering the details he gave? ”

    Yeah, I can just see it now: “That’s correct you Honor, I didn’t meet with the Chief of Staff of the IRA”

    So you didn’t eh? OK prove it

    WTF???

  45. Paul: I am not responsible for all comments on thsi site or addressing each one. You want to challenge Typhoo be my guest. I frankly considered her comment irrelvant to Francie’s input. I thought Francie was suggesting that the Brother’s Quinn couldn’t be considered as suspects because they were essentially lovable old pensioners.

    Maybe Francie ment otherwise, but since he is gone I don’t think we’ll know. Frankly, I don’t approach most ATW comments as a rabbinical student approaches the Torah. If he ment something else God Bless him.

    We’ll wait and see who turns out to have been involved. But the named individuals have easier means at their disposal to rebut Lord Laird.

  46. Mahons,

    Does this thread remind you of conversations you’ve had in bars from time to time about the truth/falsity of events? It’s certainly sounding familiar to me. I can even hear the brogues.

  47. Alan: It is worse since I am being denied the consolation of drinking while the conversation is taking place!!

  48. And I feel like I’m eaves-dropping on a pub conversation while drinking on my own. I am drinking and I am on my own but I’m at home and it’s coffee!

  49. Noel,

    Thanks for that information, I never thought of googling the names.

    To clear up, one relative of mine knows one of the individuals involved, they did time together, and while neither he nor I know of any involvement, I did find out what he was in for. Chris Gaskin has been telling us that the people involved were criminals.

    I would like to know are these named people said to be involved who are republicans of long standing now turned away from republicanism and toward crimanality?

    After watching spotlight it would seem that the nature of the crime,- we all saw the reconstruction – would appear to be of a group well organised and very forensically aware. They hosed or spread something on the floor of the barn I assume to cover their tracks forensically.

    Now where have we seen that before?

  50. This is spotlight BBC NI, and the programme entitled ‘A border murder’ should be shown here soon. I would assume from tomorrow onwards for one week.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/northernireland/tv/programmes/spotlight/

  51. Scouseproud

    Your 730pm comment particularly unhelpful. The British Embassy in Dublin was burned in 1972, after the Parachute Regiment had committed a grave crime against the unarmed and the defenseless on the streets of Derry.

    I won’t equate the never punished crime of mass murder with the unpunished crime of burning a building down. Any honest man knows which was the bigger crime.

    This is a unique moment in time when not a few nationalists can see a British Member of the House of Lords as coming to the defense of one of their own, while some of their self-declared defenders may be gravely implicated in his premeditated murder.

    If at this moment you think it clever to bring up the 1972 burning of a building, then knock yourself out. The pot can be stirred once more, which is exactly and precisely what the murderers of Mr. Quinn may like to see.

    Genius.

  52. This is a unique moment in time when not a few nationalists can see a British Member of the House of Lords as coming to the defense of one of their own, while some of their self-declared defenders may be gravely implicated in his premeditated murder.

    I wonder what the feeling in the nationaist community is on this?

    Typhoo, you have nationalist leanings if memory serves. What say you?

  53. There’s only one solution in the long-run: We must destroy SF by military force. Bomb all their premises to dust, and capture all their leaders.

  54. >>We must destroy SF by military force. Bomb all their premises to dust<<

    LOL!!

    ROYAL AIR FORCE BOMBS GOVT BUILDINGS AT STORMONT
    REPUBLICANS PUTTING UP STIFF DEFENCE

    My, my, how time’s have changed.

  55. It may be in the interests of everybody to agree an adjustment to the border which would bring South Armagh into the republic.

  56. –It may be in the interests of everybody to agree an adjustment to the border which would bring South Armagh into the republic–

    Which would partition Armagh itelf, so as to make partition of the island more defensible? I wouldn’t expect a lot of support for that from anyone.

    Besides, the matter at hand did not result, directly or indirectly, from any British or Unionist misdeeds.

    So this move might tweak the smugglers paths slightly, but the powers of local unaccountable "authorities"–the source of the problem?–would be unchanged.

  57. Scouseproud – one of the leading gards on the quinn murder case is a a protestant. i feel they are doing more than the psni which is hendering the investigation as most suspects are north of the border.

  58. Scouseproud

    Your 730pm comment particularly unhelpful.

    Completely agree. Its ridiculous to suggest that the Gardai would help an organisation which has killed and targeted many of its officers and their families.

  59. Charles,

    Laird wasn’t leaping to nationalists defence, he was getting at the IRA among all the others. The police the guards everybody, because these people committing these crimes appear to be above the law. No body feels he is defending nationalists. He’s highlighting IMO the lack of the rule of law.

    Either we have a rule of law or we don’t.

  60. one crim killing another crim, wish more would do the same

  61. observer –
    paul quinn was involved in fuel smuggling as admitted by his family and anyone who knew him.he drove the odd lorry for a wage but he was not a big player – he never drove flash cars or lived the high life. i hardly think this is enough to warrant his killing??? there are a lot worse criminals in sth armagh.
    ‘one criminal killing another ‘ – get your facts right at least 8 against one not including the other dozen there holding his friends, doing look out etc.
    Paul stood up to major republician / ira figures in the area and this is why he died – just shows sth armagh has not changed at all despite what said ion belfast.

  62. so we`re down to good crims and bad crims, let them destroy each other.

    – Paul stood up to major republician / ira figures in the area and this is why he died – just shows sth armagh has not changed at all despite what said ion belfast.-

    LOl, in other words he wanted more of the money for himself – greed

  63. Anything paul did was not enough to see him dead – he drove the odd lorry for other people for a wage not a cut.
    no one has the right to kill someone else no matter what they have done and that is the bottom line.Let the courts deal with them.
    He didn’t run about beating people up with iron bars wearing surgical gloves and boilersuits.
    He stood up for himself against those who don’t like the younger generation of republicans in south armagh – like paul who wouldn’t show them ‘respect’ as such.
    The arguments he was involved in were nothing to do with money as anyone locally can tell you.
    Its the typical isn’t it – once someone is murdered by a paramilitary the first thing to happen is for there character to be blackened and destroyed.

  64. below is the link for the spotlight programme on paul quinn’s murder.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/northernireland/tv/programmes/spotlight/

  65. And what do you think of Obadiah Shoher’s arguments against the peace process ( samsonblinded.org/blog/we-need-a-respite-from-peace.htm )?

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