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JERUSALEM

By David Vance On December 6th, 2017

Great news. President Trump has upheld his election promise to recognise Jerusalem as the Capital of Israel and the US embassy will move from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem shortly. Previous Presidents – Bush Jnr and Obama included, PROMISED but resiled from that position once the pro Palestinian lobby got to work. Trump is made of sterner stuff and he has upheld his word! For those upset as this news I refer you to these words from Hillel Neur….

“If you were silent when the U.N. declared Jerusalem’s Jewish Quarter “Occupied Palestinian Territory,” called the Temple Mount “Haram al-Sharif,” and enacted the grotesque canard that Israel “planted Jewish fake graves” in Jerusalem—then why do you suddenly cry out today?”

53 Responses to “JERUSALEM”

  1. Nice graphic.

  2. Yes, President Bone Spur the First is quite the touch guy, he tells us.

  3. tough guy

    But I guess he’s a touch guy too, or so Access Hollywood tells us

  4. It’s a simple matter. Jerusalem IS the capital. Moving the embassy is a matter for the US and nobody else.

    Its not as if the Muzzie haters and associated slime would otherwise love the USA and Trump is it.
    No difference then. Bring it on then.

  5. If it leads to even more violence in the region and beyond it is not a matter only for the US.

  6. “Jerusalem’s Jewish Quarter” – part of the Old City which is in East Jerusalem and is thus occupied territory. Refereing to the Temple Mount or Haram al-Sharif is not political. It is in Judaism/Christianity the Temple Mount, while in Islam it is the Haram. Since the Islamic Waqf has governed the Temple Mount since 1187 then it shouldn’t be controversial to give it it’s Islamic Title. It just means “the Noble Sanctuary”.

    In terms of the ‘fake graves’ thing – both sides have accused each other of this for years. In 2010 the Israelis destroyed 300 Muslim graves, claiming they where fake and used to steal land. In 2013 the Palestinians accused the Israelis of the same thing.

  7. It undermines US ability to mediate disputes, unnecessarily provokes Arab reaction, has zero net benefit to our alliance with Israel, weakens our alliances with other substantial allies, provides unnecessary propoganda to terrorists, and exposes our citizens to greater dangers. Other than that, what is not to like about it.

  8. //I refer you to these words from Hillel Neur….//

    I suppose the full name is “Neurotic”

    This recognition by the US isn’t really a big deal, IMO. It may even be a good thing.

    As Phantom said, Israel effectively has its capital in Jerusalem anyway.

    This is only a symbolic move by the US. It doesn’t help Israel in any way and doesn’t hurt anyone. Most foreign leaders – including Europeans – have for years been jumping at the chance to address the Knesset, or to visit any of of the other government centres. All of these are in Jerusalem.

    Second, the US is only one – yes, a very important one, but still only one – country.

    But is it a good thing? Yes, because it ends once and for all the absurd fiction that the US is an honest broker in the Israeli-Palestinian issue. One of the main reasons no peace deal has been reached is because the US puts itself in the centre of negotiations, while of course large parts of the US government are little more than an extension of Israeli foreign policy – as we’ve seen time and time again, in the UN and elsewhere.

    With the power of the Israel lobby in Washington, the US isn’t, can’t be, neutral.
    It’s like expecting Britain to be neutral on the Unionist-Nationalist dispute in Northern Ireland.

    In fact, peace became possible in NI only when Britain was removed as mediator, when outsiders came in and brought a blast of fairness and objectivity to the issue.

    Similarly, there can be no Isr-Pal peace as long as the US is in the driving seat.
    Trump is nothing if not frank on things like this, and at least now nobody will dare say the US is an honest broker.

    Also, the US is rapidly losing its power and influence in the region. This decision will make it lose even more, and from the point of view of this conflict at least, that’s a good thing.

    There will be others around infinitely better positioned to get justice; justice is the only basis for peace and is the thing that no American government – whether Dem or Rep – may try to promote.

  9. The importance of the US is they are the only one who can get the Israelis to the table. The US sends billions to the Israelis and gives them carte blanche to do what ever they want and will still protect them from international sanctions.

    But in the last two decades the Israelis have called America’s bluff. In the mid 90s there was a peace process (America broadly backed Israel but used their position to push Israel to the table and try and keep them there). There was terrorism on both sides (an Israeli extremist murdered the Israeli Prime Minister). Reactionary Zionists then got back into power and ramped up settlement building. They were asked by the US to stop they told the US to fuck off. Instead of calling the Israelis out on it the US continued supporting them. At that point it became obvious to the Israelis that they could do whatever they want and the US would back them to the hilt. Peace as been getting further and further away every since.

  10. now this is a comment to sink your teeth into

    Mahons, on December 6th, 2017 at 10:37 PM Said:
    It undermines US ability to mediate disputes, unnecessarily provokes Arab reaction, has zero net benefit to our alliance with Israel, weakens our alliances with other substantial allies, provides unnecessary propoganda to terrorists, and exposes our citizens to greater dangers. Other than that, what is not to like about it.

    It undermines US ability to mediate disputes, no it doesn’t, nothing has changed we are still the only nation both sides can talk to no matter what the Arabs say. The Jews won’t trust any other nation as the mediator besides the US. So the Arabs really have no choice if they ever do want to talk, besides for the last 40 years how far have negotiations gotten?

    unnecessarily provokes Arab reaction, Arans don’t need an excuse to be provoked. They like blowing things up and don’t stop blowing things up even when they are talking.

    has zero net benefit to our alliance with Israel you discount ego. The Israelis can proudly say just as only one other nation in the world can say… that no matter what happens if you kill us these guys are gonna kill you. Don’t underestimate that factor. It’s carried the Brits for over a century.

    weakens our alliances with other substantial allies doesn’t weaken any alliance. We only have two real allies in the area besides the jews that are dependable that Jordan and the Saudi’s. They both will join and hoot and hollor with erdogan and his little confab and make statements in public but their both ours.
    Have you been reading up on the Suadi purge? Every anti American Prince, Sheik and Chief that is in the slightest way unsupportive of the US is sitting in a prison. We need no allies of the rest

    provides unnecessary propoganda to terrorists, and exposes our citizens to greater dangers. and both of these lines are laughable….. they need no propaganda and we are already in danger… buy a gun!

  11. //The importance of the US is they are the only one who can get the Israelis to the table. //

    In that case, the US is even less important than I thought, as Israel has never come to the table in good faith. Israel simply doesn’t want a fair solution, and the US has always been – even under Clinton – ultimately willing to back them in this.

    //Reactionary Zionists then got back into power and ramped up settlement building//

    I also disagree there. Nethanyahu and his crowd are surprisinly slow at settlement building. In fact, there was never such a frantic robbery of Palestinian land for new settlments as under Labour PM Barak, including – and especially – during the Oslo negotiations.

  12. There is great distrust all around, and now there will be much more Arab and Muslim distrust of the US.

    None of them can claim that the US is an honest broker ( as was say Clinton in the NI negotiations ) in this matter anymore.

    We’ve chosen a side, even more than before.

  13. Settlement building had virtually ground to a halt under Yitzhak Rabin (after being ludicrous under Yitzhak Shamir). Rabin was murdered by Israeli extremists and was replaced (briefly) by Shimon Peres who continued to halt settlement building and expansion. In late 1996 Binyamin Netanyahu became Prime Minister. Settlement expansion went through the roof (not maybe to Shamir levels but still massive). Madeleine Albright personally asked Netanyahu, for the sake of peace, to stop building settlements. He said no.

    So while all Israeli governments have ratcheted up the settlement building since it was Bibi who lit the spark in 1997.

  14. Phantom…… we did not choose a side.

    We have always been on the side of the Jews, and we have always been a fair broker of the Peace.

    We will still be a fair broker.

  15. //So while all Israeli governments have ratcheted up the settlement building since it was Bibi who lit the spark in 1997.//

    I’m not quite sure but vaguely remember reading that more settlments were built in the first 3 months of Barak’s tenure than in a whole year of Netanyahu (that’s Netanyahu I).
    You can’t say that Likud are the bigger builders, just as you can’t say that in the US the Reps are worse on this issue than the Dems.

  16. So Tom still lacking integrity?

    Withdraw your accusation…….

  17. I’m not saying Likud are worse. Labour and their predecessors have shameful histories on the issue of the West Bank. But in the 90s, after Oslo, settlement expansion and building was stopped at the behest of the United States. After Bibi took over settlements started up again despite public and private calls from the United States for them to stop.

  18. We are not a fair broker.

  19. why not?

  20. Israel won’t deal with you because they have you in their back pocket. The Palestinians will not deal with you because Israel has you in their back pocket.

  21. We are on the side of the Israelis only.

    We can only be seen as a fair broker if both sides pretty much agreed that we were trying to be that, and now there would be nearly no Arabs / Muslims/ Palestinians that would say that.

    And I say that as one who has been a harsh critic of the Arabs, etc over time on this site.

    We’ve done worse than a wrong thing today, we’ve done a stupid thing.

  22. Seamus

    Well said.

  23. No we are not. We hold the Israelis to the Same Standards as the Arabs. NOBODY CAN KILL NOBODY. That is rule one… we will hold both sides to that and facilitate talks. It is what we have always done.

    How long has Israel been the recipient of American Military Inc. ?

    You think at anypoint in History all sides have known whose side the US was on? and we still broker a fair deal.

    Hell I’ll bet you every thing you’ve got that if the Arabs stopped trying to kill the Jews and were actually sincere about peace…. We would gurantee that they would get half of Jerusalem and back it up with our Embassy IN Jerusalem….

    The Problem are the Arabs not all the Arabs and not only Arabs, Persians are involved also but there are millions that want to kill the Jews just for being Jews and they want to kill us also so I don’t think we can rely on our Islamic neighbors to behave themselves.

    Besides the Islamic horde sacked Jerusalem how many Times? They will never have possession of it again. IN HOC SIGNO VINCES

  24. I say build that Embassy in Jerusalem……. And make Mexico pay for it 😉

  25. “Besides the Islamic horde sacked Jerusalem how many Times?”

    Once. Every other capture of Jerusalem by Muslim armies was followed by a relatively peaceful transition. When Umar al-Farooq captured the city in 637 it was a bloodless take over. When Salah ad-Din retook it in 1187 there was no pillage (despite the massacre that occurred when Crusaders took it 90 years before hand).

    The only time Jerusalem was sacked by Muslims was in 1244 when the Khwarezmians conquered the city and razed it to the ground.

  26. I remember it well 🙂

  27. I’ve got a big Biography of Jerusalem (by Simon Sebag Montefiore) on my bookshelves , been there for a few years .I think it might be time to read it.

  28. It’s a good read Colm. A bit storytelling (author loves a gory detail or two and Jerusalem provides more than its fair share) but still a really interesting book.

  29. Seamus……

    Every other capture of Jerusalem by Muslim armies

    That right there stop….. say no more… anything you say after that is irrelevant….

    NEVER will Jerusalem EVER be in Muslim Hands again…. period, stop, end of….

    We will do our duty, come what may.

  30. Why?

    In fact for the largest part of its history Jerusalem has been in Muslim hands. And generally the populace of Jerusalem of whatever faith have enjoyed a more peaceful existence than any time it was under Christian rulers. When the Rashidun Caliphate took Jerusalem in 637 it marked the first time in centuries that Jews could return to Jerusalem and pray. When Crusaders took the city in 1099 they massacred all the Muslims and all the Jews in Jerusalem.

  31. but we did it for the Glory of Christ…..

    After all we are just Poor Fellow Soldiers of Christ

  32. Christ? You mean the guy celebrated in Islam and rejected in Judaism?

  33. Yeah that guy

  34. Like you said when we arrived we killed everyone….. as I said IN HOC SIGNO VINCES

  35. // When Crusaders took the city in 1099 they massacred all the Muslims and all the Jews in Jerusalem.//

    Yes. The Jews and Muslims of Jerusalem fought alongside each other defending their city against the Christians. It’s probably hard for some here to imagine, but for many centuries if there was a religious divide in Europe, Christians were on one side and Jews and Muslims were on the other.

    In fact, Christians were the great haters of the day. While they looked upon Muslims as mere schismists, a branch of Christianity, Jews were despised as something like devils.

    (among the normal Christians, especially knights and soldiers, at least; many among the higher clergy were very tolerant of Jews).

  36. an out of those we were born….. Non nobis, Domine, non nobis, sed nomini tuo da gloriam!

    We rise from the catacombs of Solomon and we shall keep the City Free….. Jerusalem must be kept free. The Jews are the best bet for Jerusalem to be a city of Christ a city where all can come and worship in peace.

    The Times of man must evolve, Jerusalem is a key city either Jerusalem is kept safe or it falls and Armageddon ensues….

    For his glory

  37. All fanaticism aside….

    The Pallies were never going to get Jerusalem this move just moves a building that was ordered by Law to be moved in 1995.

    The Statement of declaring it is the drawing of a symbolic line. It sends a message to the bad actors in the region a stronger and more permanent message than an aircraft carrier in their front yard.

  38. It’s 100 years since the Balfour Declaration and the start of the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian Arabs from lands they had inhabited for many hundreds of years. Trump gives the ethnic cleansers US support to complete their work. The consequences could be very severe, and not just in Israel.

  39. Yes Blafour declared there shall be an Israel…….

    Tell me Noel the jewish home didn’t exist before wwi…. ?

    Where was it in 1000bc Israel and Judea existed long before the dragons left the Isles

  40. sorry Noel I meant Peter……

  41. Where is the man of zero Integrity……

    This headline is for him…….

    House approves concealed-carry reciprocity, gun bill faces challenge in Senate
    Fox NewsFox News · 12m
    But similar Senate legislation still faces an uncertain future, with top Democrats and other gun-control advocat…

  42. ot

    enjoy a good laugh……..

    https://pagesix.com/2017/12/05/service-dog-causes-chaos-at-cats-performance/?_ga=2.184203814.1271934211.1512555680-2070918925.1512555680

  43. One of the dumbest things about this is that there was no need to do so. Trump for no good reason has possibly stirred up trouble that might cost many lives. If so, it will be all his fault. Did he even consider why previous Presidents did not move the embassy? Does he realize that once emotions are raised in this area of the world the results can be horrific? Does he know that any peace plan in the foreseeable future is impossible as long as he is President?

  44. Does he know that any peace plan in the foreseeable future is impossible as long as he is President? is this a revelation…..?

    NYr you are aware of the combat operations that have taken place in the last 6mths by us in the ME aren’t you?

    You are aware that we have three, I repeat three…. Aircraft carriers off of Korea….

    Where did you ever get the inclination that this President has ANY thoughts of Peace?

  45. This right here:

    It undermines US ability to mediate disputes, unnecessarily provokes Arab reaction, has zero net benefit to our alliance with Israel, weakens our alliances with other substantial allies, provides unnecessary propoganda to terrorists, and exposes our citizens to greater dangers. Other than that, what is not to like about it.

    Trump did it to shore up his evangelical base.

  46. Amen…..

  47. So Daphne that doesn’t tell us what you feel about it?

    Do you think it’s a good thing, or a negative one and why?

    come on contribute for once.

  48. “Where did you ever get the inclination that this President has ANY thoughts of Peace?” I made the mistake of believing what he has said. He said the move of the embassy would improve the “ultimate” peace process between Israel and Palestine. I have the habit of believing what people say, obviously that habit needs change in regard to Trump.

  49. +++Stop Press+++

    Shock, horror, The Muslims are up in arms over…something, or other.

  50. //Trump did it to shore up his evangelical base.//

    Ah, yes, those religious folk who voted for the pussy-grabber and that will next week vote for a child molester.

  51. Ah, yes, those religious folk who voted for the pussy-grabber and that will next week vote for a child molester.

    Never get less shocking that Noel, and inexplicable , though there are groups withing that Set that oppose Judge Moore.

  52. Where did you ever get the inclination that this President has ANY thoughts of Peace?

    Thank goodness that the American people voted in* the dove, Trump, and not the sabre-rattling war-monger, Clinton.

    *er, sort of

  53. It’ll be interesting to see how Trump reacts to international condemnation:

    Traditional US allies are among a growing chorus condemning President Trump’s decision to recognise Jerusalem as Israel’s capital.

    Saudi Arabia called it “unjustified and irresponsible”, while France and the UK said they did not support the decision

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-42261000

    It’s signifcant that the Saudi head chopping Wahhabi extremist financiers have come out against this. Nothing must be allowed to jeopordise those lovely multi (b?)million oil $ arms deals.

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