web analytics

DUBLIN DECEIT…

By David Vance On December 6th, 2017

It was ALL going so well on Monday morning. EU and Irish officials were feverishly briefing that the UK Government had caved and would accept an “Regulatory Alignment” between Northern Ireland the Irish Republic, in essence moving the border to the Irish Sea! Such joy in Dublin. Then the DUP got to read the words that had been proposed. Then Arlene Foster called Theresa May and the balloon was punctured. Agreement off! She’s been scrambling ever since and the whole process is in chaos! Now we read this…

The Irish Government is willing to facilitate a “clarification” being added to the text of a Brexit deal with the UK if it gets Theresa May off the hook with DUP, the Irish Independent understands. While no requests for changes to the deal outlining “regulatory alignment” between Northern Ireland and the Republic have been made since talks collapsed on Monday, Dublin has opened the door to a truce. Anglo-Irish relations are at a modern day low following the controversy and the UK Prime Minister is struggling to hold her minority government together.

The Irish PM would know all about minority Goverments since he heads one up. The latest Conservative wheeze seems to be to suggest that there is some sort of narrow “regulation agreement” between the UK as a whole and the EU. This would facilitate the Irish need apparently. Just one problem – it doesn’t facilitate Brexit and May will get into even deeper water! She is so supine I am surprised she can ever stand up!

The solution to ALL of this is simple. The UK must – JUST. WALK. AWAY.

No deal. No “divorce settlement” “No regulatory aligment”  – Brexit means LEAVE.

134 Responses to “DUBLIN DECEIT…”

  1. The time to walk away was weeks ago.

  2. Who would have thought that ‘taking back control’ would mean a minority provincial party telling the Brit PM what to do 🙂

    “Let me say very clearly: if the UK offer is unacceptable for Ireland, it will also be unacceptable for the EU. I realise that for some British politicians this may be hard to understand,” said Tusk.

    It was “logic” that the EU would support Ireland before a member state that was leaving the bloc. “This is why the key to the UK’s future lies – in some ways – in Dublin, at least as long as Brexit negotiations continue,” the council president said.

    Speaking in Irish Gaelic, Tusk made clear that the EU stood full square behind Ireland: “Ní neart go cur le chéile” [There is no strength without unity]

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/01/ireland-will-have-final-say-on-progress-of-brexit-talks-says-eu

    Good to see you back here David I hope you’re going to stick around.

  3. David, you’ve got a business in Northern Ireland, and I vaguely remember you saying a long time back that a lot of your trade is with companies in the RoI.
    Have you done any homework on the effects a hard border with customs controls could have on your business?

  4. I think this, cut and pasted from social media, succintley sums things up:

    Shanecois writes:

    “These are unbelievable times. The British Prime Minister calls an ill-advised referendum to both placate and silence the right wing of his own party. He proceeds to lose that referendum, overnight devaluing the nation’s assets by 20% and setting off a chain of events which may well lead to not only an exit from the EU without a deal and casting the country into a friendless international wilderness (the US special relationship being dead in the water). He resigns and his vanquishers turn on each other allowing a mediocre milquetoast to take the highest office in the land at a time of the greatest international challenges since WW2. The new PM, who voted to remain, executes a volte-face and promises a successful Brexit, with no deal if necessary. In one of the worst political misjudgements in history, she calls a totally unnecessary general election, believing that she will wipe out her unpopular, beleaguered rival and gain the strongest hand possible in advance of the negotiations. Instead she runs the worst campaign in modern political history and loses her majority. Instead of running a minority government she chooses to get into bed with a party of Christian fundamentalists with antediluvian views on gay marriage whose raison d’être is to keep their province, the part with a future land border with the EU, in the UK at all costs- albeit a version of the UK set in 1950s aspic. Not only this, their own province did not vote for Brexit yet they see their own political leverage as more important than enacting the will of their constituents. To add spice to the fiery mix, an openly gay half-Indian man then becomes PM of the country they long to keep separate from, and which they have long derided as a conservative theocratic backwater, and proceeds to run rings around the British PM. Meanwhile the First Minister of Scotland, a wily political operator with every intention of steering her country out of the UK and keeping it in the EU, watches with barely disguised glee as the Brexit UK begins to disintegrate. In a further irony, the country she represents is the ancestral homeland of many of the Northern Irish Unionists, although it modern iteration wants to remain in the EU, and now has a stronger than ever argument to want to leave the UK. To return to the UK electoral debacle, the British PM’s electoral charge of the light brigade not only torpedoes her own majority but revitalises her moribund opponent, who enhanced and emboldened, goes on attack after attack and now looks odds on to succeed her as PM if and when her own bloodthirsty and fractious party stab her in the back. It sounds like an extra dystopian modern take on Macbeth crossed with King Lear..”

  5. Its ludicrous the way the goal posts have shifted so far from the original referendum.
    Then it was to Leave or Remain
    Then it shifted to “we have to leave the single market” … not voted upon
    Then it shifted to “we have to leave the customs union” .. not voted upon
    Now its become No deal with the EU – walk way again .. not voted upon

    David V is entitled to his opinion and desire about the shape of the future.
    But can anyone honestly say this scenario was in the mind of the voter in June 2016?
    Absolutely Not, this was not the vision even of the vast majority of those who wanted to leave , we know from the polls, as immigration was the key issue.
    Had that been sorted we wouldn’t even be in Brexit-land

    Now we’re in situation where the Hard-Right in the UK have hijacked the whole process to demand their shopping basket of goodies, however their position is not supported by anything like even 5% of the electorate, been tested , I demand we have a vote on the final deal , or Parliament to ratify . This is a complete subversion of democracy .

    This isn’t Brexit, its Exit from the land of the living , towards the black hole of nothing. At least there’ll be no crime though, when we disappear into nothingness. Crazy .

  6. It is sadly the majoritarian nature that has gripped politics in recent years. 52% voted for Brexit, so the 48% don’t get a say on anything else. To take things even further it doesn’t even matter what the 52% want as long as it is supported by the majority within the 52%.

  7. i know seamus its doing my Nut in mo cara, e.g there’s nothing to stop an army of diggers descending on Dover, chiselling out the cliffs. When asked by a bbc reporter “what are you doing ” , the gov’t employee spokesmen ( mostly EU migrants ) says :” well we’re digging away to create further distance from the EU” .. and who agreed to that said the reporter?
    “52% voted to leave, we can do whatever we want, whenever we want ” that’s democracy, fancy a shovel?

  8. het David where is your latest video?

  9. It is also why I despise referendums. It takes what are often some of the most complex issues in the world and boils them down to binary choices. The EU Referendum was Remain or Leave. What did Remain mean? Could you imagine if the majority voted Remain and the Europhiles in Westminster used it as an excuse to drive for the most extreme form of remaining in the EU (Schengen, Euro etc…). What does Leave mean? The Customs Union, Single Market, Regulation, Energy, Immigration, Citizen’s Rights, Security, Europol etc… weren’t on the ballot paper. The people didn’t vote on them. Yet apparently it is ‘undemocratic’ to not pretend that they did.

    Same thing in the Scottish Independence Referendum a few years ago. What did Yes and No mean? Did it mean getting rid of devolution? Did it mean stronger devolution? If it is based on the campaigns (something the Brexit crowd are arguing is the case in the EU Referendum) then Scotland voted to stay in the UK, with substantially enhanced powers, and remain part of the European Union (the EU was a big part of the Indy Ref). So has the Scottish Referendum result been invalidated by Brexit? On the basis of the question on the ballot paper then no. If it is based on what was offered during the campaign then yes.

    Either way to complex for a simple binary choice.

  10. Paul

    Well done at 10.34pm.

    I still support Brexit, but there is no denying the shambles that it has become. The simplest solution in the short term would be if the UK decides to remain in the Customs Union for (say) the next five years. That way we leave the EU and the Single Market in March 2019 but avoid the border issues until a proper trade deal has been agreed.

  11. If the UK walks away they will be an untrustworthy pariah doomed to lonely penury. The UK joined the EU and by doing so agreed with the rules including terms of leaving. No country would sanction trade with an international pariah that does not pay what it owes. Walking away is not a wise course.

    The PM and DUP are responsible for the current mess. Dublin has played smart, the UK has played dumb and is wound around the tail of the DUP for now. The most likely outcome is that the DUP will be thrown under the bus for the greater good of the Union.

  12. Then it shifted to “we have to leave the single market” … not voted upon
    Then it shifted to “we have to leave the customs union” .. not voted upon

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vn2hSVfqtYc

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dghdvVbtowM

    Leading Remainers also made it clear that voting Leave would likely entail pulling Britain out of the single market. David Cameron said: ‘What the British public will be voting for is to leave the EU and leave the single market.’ George Osborne echoed him: ‘We would be out of the single market.’ There you go: the two then most powerful men in Britain saying Leave would mean leaving the single market

    Facts, Jude, facts.. I thought you only dealt in facts?

  13. I think people have missed something here which really rather backs up DV point about walking away. The DUP have said; “NO !”. The UK Government has had to suspend talks and now, wait for it, the Irish government is prepared to make a minor, and rather pathetic, concession. So if you stand firm and are really prepared to walk way, I think we could make the EU blink. And remember, the rEU27 handed over responsibility of negotiations the EU but, here is a member state intervening to make a concession. I though that was not allowed ? If so, then the offer has no legal basis. The DUP and the UK people are being duped !

  14. Jude (Capital letter)

    Facts, dear boy, facts.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CFOzkWj_P4

  15. And remember, the rEU27 handed over responsibility of negotiations the EU but, here is a member state intervening to make a concession. I though that was not allowed ?

    Mark,

    Let me say very clearly: if the UK offer is unacceptable for Ireland, it will also be unacceptable for the EU. I realise that for some British politicians this may be hard to understand,” said Tusk

    Not so.

  16. You have clearly misread what I have written. The ‘Irish government’ has made an amendment, it did not do it through the EU. Subtle but substantial difference and it does not take away from the fact that they are willing to move, albeit ever so slightly, when you stand up to them.

    But the only way we will be proved right or wrong is if we indeed do walk away. Arlene Foster was very clear at the end of her speech. The RoI cannot negotiate with the UK Government without taking the views if the DUP into account. The DUP do not want economic and political divergence with the rUK.

    But hey, if the EU is OK with Ulster being economically and politically divergent while not instead ask the RoI to be allowed to be politically and economically divergent from the rEU ? Seems fair and solve a problem.

    😉

  17. not facts Harri, selective quotes at best:
    there were many who talked about Norway all the time
    here: not leaving the single market

  18. not facts Harri, selective quotes at best:

    Sigh*

  19. did you watch the video i posted ?

  20. Yep..
    Are you implying, ” we didn’t know what we were voting for”?

    Yes we did.

  21. uhh the video flatly contradicts that , people were saying different things at the time
    tbh and I’m not play silly buggers, I did not hear what you’re claiming, what i do remember is Farage and others reassuring us ( as per video ) that we wouldn’t leave the single market and there its is in video .. proof that there was at best a mixed message .. agree?
    well its there , i just presented evidence to support my case .

  22. Being honest, and yes, this did make me baulk a bit.

    After yet another barrage of threats from Brussels, my ears did pick up on the threat to make pets (dogs in my case) three of them, to revert back to quarantine conditions when travelling to mainland Europe, now, this would put our family in a dire predicament, we would not allow our dogs to go into quarantine for months on end.

    But now, the information is, although Brussels are once again being petty and spiteful, this might, only possibly might be for those who do not already have animals without current microchips and “pet passports”.

    Even armed with this possible alarming information, if another referendum was held tomorrow, I would vote to leave again in an instant.

    I base this on the outrageous behaviour of Verhofstdat and co, over the past year or so. They have merely cemented in stone what millions of people thought of them anyway.

  23. Mark,

    Let me say very clearly: if the UK offer is unacceptable for Ireland, it will also be unacceptable for the EU

    Presumably the reverse also applies?

    The RoI cannot negotiate with the UK Government without taking the views if the DUP into account.

    Of course it can. The DUP demands are nothing to do with Ireland’s nogeotiations – they are Theresa May’s problems.

  24. Harri I want to break this down :
    Brussels – you are talking about the way 700 MEP’s have voted
    Is that correct ?

  25. The DUP are propping up the Government, of course their views matter otherwise the deal would have been done.

    I do not dispute the EU’s position of supporting RoI position. I dispute the fact that the EU27 handed over negotiations to the EU Commission. Now the talks have stalled the RoI, alone, has offered an amendment, that is outside the EU27 initial position. ergo They moved !

    The underlining point that you cannot see, is that if you stand up to them as the DUP have done, they will move !

  26. jude, on December 7th, 2017 at 9:26 AM Said:

    Harri I want to break this down :
    Brussels – you are talking about the way 700 MEP’s have voted
    Is that correct ?

    I trust MEP’s as far as I can throw them.

    How many of them I truly wonder, actually read the whole of the Lisbon Treaty?

  27. As much as I am enjoying this conversation, I have to go and do stuff.

  28. Or Harri dya think its one man who makes all the decisions ( laughable )
    but that is certainly the way you present it ..

    see if you were to tell the truth and say
    Euro MEP’s voted today on this ….. ( fill in the ruling )
    it completely destroys this silly notion in your head about diktats
    There are no diktats Harri there are votes .. that i’m afraid is democracy
    all this blather about unelected officials is baloney . propganda
    right wing pres moaning ..
    we have MEP’s Harri – think about what that means ..

  29. Jude.

    The EU commission, are a major part of the problem, not the solution to anything.

  30. whether you trust them is irrelevant, like MP’s in UK
    they campaigned and won their seats , they vote on matters they’re responsible for .
    anyway glad to have helped you understand there are no dikats or overlords.

  31. Sorry Jude.

    I entirely disagree.

    Brussels are the elite, they are the overlords of Europe.

  32. just checked it out for you Harri
    The EU commissioners last a max of 5 years and are all voted in/appointed by parliaments under rigorous fail-safes mechansims.

    https://ec.europa.eu/info/about-european-commission/organisational-structure/political-leadership_en

    still looking for these over-lords harri that wield massive un-elected power, that reign in tyranny like the Mugabes and Putins , issuing diktats.
    sill looking , please get back to me , with evidence, or cede the point that you are wrong.
    that’s the whole point of debate . I think I have won my case.
    thank you

  33. The DUP are propping up the Government, of course their views matter otherwise the deal would have been done

    Yes, they matter to Theresa May if she wants to stay in Government. The views of the DUP are of no consequence to the Irish Government or the EU.

    I do not dispute the EU’s position of supporting RoI position. I dispute the fact that the EU27 handed over negotiations to the EU Commission. Now the talks have stalled the RoI, alone, has offered an amendment, that is outside the EU27 initial position. ergo They moved !

    I think it’s a safe assumption that it was offered in conjunction with multilateral talks as opposed to a unilateral offer.

    The underlining point that you cannot see, is that if you stand up to them as the DUP have done, they will move !

    Seriously flawed voodoo logic. Why should the Irish Government or the EU worry about May’s internal political problems?

  34. Harri, on December 7th, 2017 at 9:46 AM Said:
    Sorry Jude.
    I entirely disagree.
    Brussels are the elite, they are the overlords of Europe.

    I’ve just presented evidence that proves you are completely wrong
    so its a false perception of yours, you could perhaps thank me for putting you in touch with Reality

  35. Jude.

    No diktats eh!

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/2908054/EU-orders-bonfire-of-the-diktats.html

  36. help Harri day

    an elite is a person or body that is unelected and wields power
    so Kings and Queens would be Elites
    heads of certain companies would be Elites, head-fund managers e.g

    Brussels is formed by a rigorous system of voting and election
    in no way can these people be referred to as elites
    all their power is given to them for limited periods
    they are bound by a very tight set of rules and procedures

    Your move Harri ?

  37. Here you are Mark:

    Ambassadors of the 27 EU member states are understood to be “waiting for something from London”

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-42261967

    That’s where it stands at the minute.

  38. lol had to go back to 2005 for a dubious report
    In your own words Harri please
    explain what is an elite , what is an elected official ?

  39. Jude.

    If you believe those who lord it over us at Brussels are not elites, then all is lost.

  40. want you to explain your langauage Harri, you are using the words
    back them up ,explain what is the difference between an ( elite ) and an elected official
    ( non-elites ) ..put up or shut-up as John Mayor would say

  41. “Lords” and “Elites” – these are claims made by Harri
    back up those claims please ?

  42. Jude.

    What, these unelected elite at Brussels?

    Share
    Tweet
    Email
    More
    Save

    Log In Settings

    Europe Edition

    Jerusalem, Russia, Volkswagen: Your Thursday Briefing

    Right-Wing Populist Is Blocked From Joining Nobel Peace Prize Committee

    In Norway, Fighting the Culling of Reindeer With a Macabre Display

    Birth Control Pills Still Linked to Breast Cancer, Study Finds

    Jean d’Ormesson, ‘Immortal’ French Man of Letters, Dies at 92

    Russia Won’t Keep Athletes Home, Putin Says After Olympics Ban

    What World Leaders Think of Jerusalem as Israel’s Capital

    Putin Confirms He Is Running for President

    U.N., European Union and Pope Criticize Trump’s Jerusalem Announcement

    Malta Charges 3 Veteran Criminals in Journalist’s Murder

    Plot to Kill U.K. Prime Minister Foiled, Court Hears

    ‘The Crown’: A Look Back at Season 1 and the History Behind It

    What World Leaders Think of Jerusalem as Israel’s Capital

    Loading…

    Advertisement

    Europe | Letter from Europe

    E.U. Elites Keep Power From the People

    By JUDY DEMPSEYAUG. 22, 2011

    Continue reading the main story Share This Page

    Share
    Tweet
    Email
    More
    Save

    BERLIN — When the German philosopher Jürgen Habermas says something about Europe and his country, Germans take special note. As a passionate European with a big following in the United States, Mr. Habermas, 82, comments when he senses that things are going very wrong.

    So when he recently delivered a speech in Berlin amid the continuing euro crisis, he captivated his audience. He accused the political elites of reneging on their responsibility to bring Europe to its citizens.

    “The process of European integration, which has always taken place over the heads of the population, has now reached a dead end,” Mr. Habermas said at a forum hosted by the European Council on Foreign Relations. “It cannot go any further without switching from its usual administrative mode to one of greater public involvement.”

    The political elites “are burying their heads in the sand,” he said, adding, “They are doggedly persisting with their elitist project and the disenfranchisement of the European population.”

    Those who agree with Mr. Habermas often cite the behavior of José Manuel Barroso, president of the European Commission, the Union’s executive, and Herman Van Rompuy, president of the European Council, which represents the 27 member states.
    Continue reading the main story

    ADVERTISEMENT
    Continue reading the main story

    During these past months, both have failed to explain to a wider public what is happening to Europe and the euro. When they give interviews, they tend to address an elitist audience. Neither reaches out to citizens. “I doubt if they ever thought of doing town-hall meetings,” said Pawel Swieboda, director of DemosEuropa, an independent research organization in Warsaw.

    “They don’t bother to do such meetings because they don’t have to stand for election,” added Reinhard Bütikofer, a German and leader of the Greens in the European Parliament.

    Mr. Barroso and Mr. Van Rompuy were chosen behind closed doors. Angela Merkel, the German chancellor, and Nicolas Sarkozy, the French president, who on European issues often skirt the broader public, had a powerful influence over who should run Brussels. They preferred weak leaders who would be beholden to them, analysts say.

    In contrast, as an elected lawmaker, Mr. Bütikofer was last week conducting town-hall meetings in the north-eastern German state of Mecklenburg-Western Pomerania, where his party hopes to get elected to the regional Parliament next month.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/23/world/europe/23iht-letter23.html

  43. The Nige showing how he loves the EU trough:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/03/nigel-farage-criticised-for-saying-he-will-keep-eu-pension

  44. again asking for your own words Harri
    please explain what is an elite?
    and contrast that with elected officials in the EU

  45. jude, on December 7th, 2017 at 10:17 AM Said:

    again asking for your own words Harri
    please explain what is an elite?
    and contrast that with elected officials in the EU

    Sigh*

  46. clue Harri, you don’t need google
    just pls explain what is an elite , and what is an elected offical
    compare and contrast. Straightforward : just needs language/definitions and basic logic
    Have you got that ability? didn’t you do a degree in science Harri?

  47. no need to sigh harri, just explain what you mean
    mate you’re using the words elites and lords
    asking you a simple question.
    politely please explain what you’re talking about in the words YOU use

  48. Harri busy trying to find his dictionary
    dammit he mutters, where did I put that thing
    have the kids got it? did the dog chew it ?
    oh there it is propping up a chair-leg..ahh
    e is for elites , lemme see elicit, no go forward a bit
    Its Help Harri Day 24hrs on ATW .. wow so lucky , wish I had that ..

  49. Harri’s lucky day , *sighs* he’s not gonna blow it , is he?
    maybe he busy , pop back later, thread bookmarked ..
    your move .

  50. Science Jude?

    Yep. but according to you, I was a farmer yesterday. 😉

    Jude.

    Even the LSE recognise those at Brussels who lord it over us as “Elites”.

    http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2017/08/15/how-the-eu-elite-publicises-its-high-profile-work-and-stays-silent-about-the-rest/

  51. Jude,

    Why do you even bother with a guy whose whole political ‘analysis’ and discussion consists of nothing more than soundbite slogans, cut and paste pieces and inventing personas for people who disagree with him?

    You’re flogging a dead horse.

  52. your move .

    By Jude… aged 12 and a half. 😉

  53. In the aftermath of the Brexit referendum, the gap between citizens and political elites in Brussels seems wider than ever before. In a recent study, I have examined how EU political elites have sought to overcome this gap by addressing the interests of citizens in media debates. EU political elites include representatives of the European Parliament (MEPs), Council and Member State officials, and civil servants of the European Commission. Claims about citizens’ interests are important signals for elites to show to the public that their voices are being heard. By making claims in the news, EU political elites can thwart or elicit public protest or electoral retribution.

    http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2017/08/15/how-the-eu-elite-publicises-its-high-profile-work-and-stays-silent-about-the-rest/

  54. Even the LSE recognise those at Brussels who lord it over us as “Elites”.

    No, Harri. No it doesn’t. Did you even read your own article?

    I was astonished at this news yesterday. Apparently the UK Govt has done zero impact assessments on how a hard-Brexit will affect each industry sector. Zilch. Nada. None.

    https://news.sky.com/story/no-we-havent-assessed-impact-on-economy-of-no-brexit-deal-admits-davis-10802858

  55. Yep, they are elites alright..

    A new Chatham House report ‘The Future of Europe: Comparing Public and Elite Attitudes” will be launched in Brussels on 20 June 2017 in cooperation with the EPC.

    The study is a central part of a flagship project exploring EU integration and is based on a major 10-country survey, conducted earlier in 2017. The survey examined attitudes to politics and EU integration among the public and a unique sample of Europe’s ‘elites’. The analysis highlights areas of alignment and disconnect between the public and elite and the implications of these results for the future of the EU.
    https://www.chathamhouse.org/event/brussels-launch-europes-future-what-do-public-and-elite-really-think

  56. //A new Chatham House report ‘The Future of Europe: Comparing Public and Elite Attitudes” will be launched in Brussels on 20 June 2017//

    Yes, but tell us what the report says.

  57. Noel

    They called them elites.

    As for..

    Yes, but tell us what the report says.

    You or I, will never really know?

    It’s obviously for the elites only. 😉

    The panellists will present the report and analyse the results of the survey in the wider political context of increasing division in the EU and consider their significance for EU policymaking post-Brexit. To what extent do the public and ‘elites’ attitudes diverge? What is distinctive about the results for the different countries? And how might these attitudes be changed?

    Attendance at this event is by invitation only.

  58. The UK should leave – right now – and then negotiate from a position of OUT, and all studies and ‘impact assessments’ can be carried out in real-time. All payments to the EU must cease and then there shall be reasonable negotiation because the EU is absolutely dependent on the UK’s money and trade deficit.

  59. Those who reside at the palaces of Brussels are not just “elites” – they are “elite technocrats”.

    And make absolutely no mistake about it.

  60. Is that your best harri .. I can link to a dozen sites claiming the moon landing was false. Too lazy to simply write in your own words . Could it be because it’s been proven to you EU is composed of elected officials and your hysteria is getting the better of you. Paul thanks I am wasting my time fancied trying it though . They prefer fantasy and screeching. *signs*

  61. jude, on December 7th, 2017 at 12:06 PM Said:

    Is that your best harri .. I can link to a dozen sites claiming the moon landing was false.

    STRAWMAN ALERT !!

  62. The people did not put the Brussels elites there, and they can’t remove them either.

    They are elites.

  63. Paul see his language palaces lords .. harri you’ve lost it love.

  64. Have to say, Varadkar’s playing a blinder:

    Mr Varadkar said that during Wednesday’s phone call, he indicated his “willingness to consider any proposals that the UK side have”

    “Ultimately, it is up to them to come back to us, given the events that happened on Monday.” […]

    “My responsibility as taoiseach – as prime minister of Ireland – is to protect our fundamental national interest and that is the rights of Irish citizens in Ireland and Britain and also the avoidance of a return to a border between Northern Ireland and Ireland.”

    The Irish government has demanded a written agreement from the UK that there will be no return to a “hard border”- one involving checkpoints or barriers – after Brexit.
    The EU has agreed that Brexit talks cannot proceed to phase two – dealing with trade – until the Republic of Ireland is satisfied with a UK guarantee on the border issue.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-42258681

  65. Jude

    I might buy you this for Christmas, it would be money well spent..

    Or not 😉

    The European Union and its Crises through the Eyes of the Brussels Elite, by G. Ross (Basingstoke: Palgrave Macmillan, 2011, ISBN 9780230301658); x+214pp., £ 55.00

    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jcms.12153/full

  66. Harri, I’d settle for you stringing a few sentences together of your own words .

  67. The UK should leave – right now – and then negotiate from a position of OUT

    If you want to crash the European and world markets, that’s a great way to do it.

    You may want to listen to the sober commentary of New Yorker on this matter.

  68. No man is an island entire to itself…and no island is either, especially the UK. Even with the exit the need to have diplomacy, trade agreements etc. Is critical. A nation is not run like a blog – reality is involved.

  69. jude, on December 7th, 2017 at 12:29 PM Said:

    Harri, I’d settle for you stringing a few sentences together of your own words .

    What. like when I replied to your “Give me one, just one example” of the way the EU diktacts have affected me, or Great Britain..

    You never settled for that. You never replied? 😉

    Or perhaps I should have done as you do, write the sentences in Txt language like a 12 year old? 😉

  70. well. spoken mahons

    there is alot of flatulaence on ATW

    e.g If Harri had bothered to write something like this we might possibly have sympathy

    ” Jude, I wrote to my MP and MEP about green waste, an issue i feel passionate about , I was told that there was a vote on this , passed 201x, but helpfully any and all information relevant to this and consultation process, I was advised to speak to xyz ”

    instead of that we get incoherent ramblings like:
    Brussels – palaces/ lords/elites .. grrr .. rage / hysteria

    NO wonder you’re debating skills are non-existent Harri, you’re the laziest sod on ATW.

  71. ” Jude, I wrote to my MP and MEP about green waste, an issue i feel passionate about , I was told that there was a vote on this , passed 201x, but helpfully any and all information relevant to this and consultation process, I was advised to speak to xyz ”

    There has already been petitions, I belong to that petition, nothing has changed.

    Write my MEP?

    Or, you could suggest of doing something useful.

    🙂

  72. Harri start by defining an elite, contrast that with an elected official.
    what did you discover?

  73. NO wonder you’re debating skills are non-existent Harri, you’re the laziest sod on ATW

    Says the bloke who posts like a demented 12 year old 😉

  74. jude, on December 7th, 2017 at 1:00 PM Said:

    Harri start by defining an elite, contrast that with an elected official.
    what did you discover?

    Yawn Zzzz

    If you don’t understand what an elite is, that’s your problem.

  75. They are unelected elite technocrats, the people did not vote for them, and they can’t vote them out either.

    *Sigh

  76. i understand what an elite is Harri, you don’t .
    you claimed it prove it, i’ve researched it and my research tells me
    eu officials go through a rigorous process of selection .

    Guys can you please help harri here, explain to him what an elite is?

  77. Oh dear…

    jude, on December 6th, 2017 at 11:34 AM Said:

    “old sad faced farmer from the country” is a combination foil on your proven “whineyness” and stupidity. If anything , yes I’m sterio-typing farmers a tad, but you’re not gonna get much traction complaining about it .. hahaha

    By Jude .. aged 12 and a half.

    🙂

  78. Harri start by defining an elite, contrast that with an elected official.

  79. eu officials go through a rigorous process of selection .

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA !!! 🙂

  80. Harri, do you know what an elected official is?

  81. Harri and Jude, the Liz Taylor and Richard Burton of ATW 😍

  82. ahh but whose the pusher, whose the sitter colm (cwl)

  83. Harri do you know what an election is ?

  84. Jude.

    Do you know what reality is?

  85. Colm.

    No worries, Jude is just a fat old whiney far left whitey. 😁

  86. Jude

    Let’s say I think you are both versatile 😉

  87. Harri

    If you weren’t a happily married robust heterosexual….. Jude would be your dream partner 😊

  88. Jesus, Harri, will you every write a comment with your own ideas that continues for more than 2 lines. I’ve just looked through this thread alone and there are no less than 25 comments from Harri of two lines or less.

    It just turns the whole thread into a mess of slogans. If you can’t string a few real sentences together, switch to Twitter.

  89. You mean Twatter? 😁😁

  90. Thanks Noel ..

  91. Harri
    If you weren’t a happily married robust heterosexual….. Jude would be your dream partner 😊

    I don’t think so Colm.. I’m white. 😏

  92. Noel.

    Don’t forget the 29 from old whiney whitey Jude. 😁

  93. OK, now it’s 27 two-liners from Harri on a single thread.

    Honestly, Jude says something that annoys you and then you continue to fire slogans at it for weeks. ????

    I’m just few up reading these childish slogans. Harri, think something through first then post it here, show you can write something.

    This is a blog, not the wall of a public toilet.

  94. Honestly, Jude says something that annoys you and then you continue to fire slogans at it for weeks. ????

    You are right there Noel.

    Everything Whiney old whitey Jude says annoys me. 😏

  95. Noel

    These one liners are just Harri’s teasing foreplay invitations to Jude. The same teasing gestures can be observed in many species of the animal kingdom 😋

  96. Shudder…

  97. From ATW’s very own Bible.

    Oh dear:

    Theresa May’s government could be close to collapse, with Tory officials warning her leadership could be over within weeks if she fails to bring the Irish border deal under control. The EU is looking to give her breathing room by granting another extension.

    European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker has extended UK Prime Minister Theresa May’s deadline to settle the Irish border issue to next Wednesday – the eve of an EU leaders’ summit, which takes place next Thursday – to give her more time to broker a successful deal

    https://www.rt.com/uk/412258-may-government-collapse-brexit/

  98. extended to Wednesday then paul from Sunday . Interesting, as a good citizen I would like to see a deal even though i voted remain, but thinking politically , a collapse in the gov’t and a general elections would not be bad for my politics as that would give Corbyn a chance and i don’t think the country wants a hard brexit, so its all to play for.

  99. The country may not get a Hard Brexit with Corbyn in power but we,d probably end up becoming a soft Cuba….without the warm weather 😕

  100. With all these dire warnings about a hard brexit and a hard border, the good men of IRL and UK will soon have a problem getting a hard on.

  101. one week to place a square peg into a round whole , I wonder what chance success, esp with the DUP Doom-mongers naysayers . Heard they’ve been attacking UUP saying she’s working for Dublin
    Is there no end to their negativity ?

  102. jude, on December 7th, 2017 at 1:00 PM Said:

    Harri start by defining an elite, contrast that with an elected official.
    what did you discover?

    This has been discussed previously with the usual “show what you mean by this ‘elite’ etc” and then, once it’s shown, the reply is

    Paul McMahon, on August 12th, 2017 at 1:52 PM Said:

    ‘Theororists’ such as you love the ‘Deep State’ Allan. It adds another delicious realm to your paranoid persecution complex.

    though the questioner fails to dispute the evidence placed before his eyes because……..he doesn’t want to see. Here is the example:

    Allan@Aberdeen, on August 11th, 2017 at 8:39 PM Said:

    How exactly did Russia supposedly influence the US election?

    As for Paul’s ‘mythical’ Deep State, it’s perfectly explicable:

    Paul McMahon, on August 8th, 2017 at 4:48 PM Said:

    ‘Deep State’ ‘Fake News’ ‘Alternate Facts’ ‘The Establishment’ ‘Globalists’ all seem to be central non specific staples of the Trump administration political lexicon.

    That there is an ‘Establishment’ and that there are ‘globalists’ is surely confirmed by all including those who are members of the Establishment and globalists themselves. Taking the US, what would be the Establishment? I’d start with organisations like the Council on Foreign Relations:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_on_Foreign_Relations

    The Council on Foreign Relations (CFR), founded in 1921, is a United States nonprofit think tank specializing in U.S. foreign policy and international affairs. It is headquartered in New York City, with an additional office in Washington, D.C. Its membership, which numbers 4,900, has included senior politicians, more than a dozen secretaries of state, CIA directors, bankers, lawyers, professors, and senior media figures.

    Yes, that looks like it meets the criteria for ‘Establishment’ – see pictorial representation below:

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2b/CFR-Interlocks-2004.jpg

    How about ‘globalists’?

    Clearly globalists would include anybody in the CFR in the US, but there are many in the UK and Europe who are globalists, as opposed to nationalists, the latter being those who believe in the nation-state. Below is a globalist:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18519395

    The EU should “do its best to undermine” the “homogeneity” of its member states, the UN’s special representative for migration has said.

    Peter Sutherland told peers the future prosperity of many EU states depended on them becoming multicultural.

    He also suggested the UK government’s immigration policy had no basis in international law.

    He was being quizzed by the Lords EU home affairs sub-committee which is investigating global migration.

    Mr Sutherland, who is non-executive chairman of Goldman Sachs International and a former chairman of oil giant BP, heads the Global Forum on Migration and Development , which brings together representatives of 160 nations to share policy ideas.

    In government and all levers of power and influence, people like Peter Sutherland prevail entirely. Anybody who disagrees is ‘googled’.

    ‘Alternate facts’ would be facts either not reported or skewed by the media organisations controlled by globalists because such facts would be detrimental to their agenda, current examples being the ‘benefits’ of 3rd-world invasion though the most egregious are 9/11, Iraq, Syria etc.

    The ‘deep state’? take a look at the first two links. That is the ‘deep state’

  103. thanks allan you prove that elected officials in the EU are NOT elites ..

  104. *Yawn

    So, a few disparate links tied together with an ‘explanation’ is ‘evidence’

    It’s got me convinced anyhows. They’re probably Common Purpose too.

  105. Is that the same Peter Sutherland quote already used a number of times to prove not-very-much other than that those are the views of Peter Sutherland?

    Sherlock Holmes, eat your heart out.

  106. Either that’s what Sutherland said, or it’s not. Sutherland is one of the most well-connected globalists and what he said is being enacted.

  107. Reg,

    You know the formula by now.

    Get someone from some obscure quango, NGO or think tank that on one’s ever heard of. Zero in on some comment or other of their’s that they’ve made and HEY PRESTO!

    You’ve got proof of some shadowy alternative government that’s trying to bring down civilisation or something but only the chosen ones can see it as the rest are all unintelligent sheep or brainwashed by the ‘non – good’ MSM which of course the alternative government controls.

  108. BTW,

    It’ll probably be The Deep State’s or Common Purpose’s or ‘the Establishment’s or ‘Globalists’ or George Soros’ or something’s fault when the ROI doesn’t capitulate and stop the DUP from bringing down the Brit Government.

  109. Get someone from am obscure oil company (BP) and from an obscure bank (Goldman Sachs) and membership of obscure UN migration organisations and HEY PRESTO, there are thousands of Africans getting plucked out of the sea in Libya and ferried to Italy

  110. See?

    Remember a few weeks ago when you were making a fuss over Angela Merkel receiving the Coduenhove – Kalergi prize and Charlemagne award for flooding Europe full of immigrants or destroying civilisation or something until it was pointed out to you that she had received the awards respectively five and seven years prior to the refugee crisis beginning?

    That.

  111. Pollum – Merkel was getting her rewards up-front. And yes, Africans really are being plucked out of Libyan waters by NGO boats and taken to Italy. You may say – “it’s not happening, it’s not happening……” but it is.

  112. Merkel was getting her rewards up-front.

    WAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    Absolutely fucking spectacular, even for you Allah.

  113. So the magic breakthrough is that May says there will be no hard border in Ireland and EU citizens in the UK, and UK citizens in the EU, will see their rights protected, hurrrahhhhhh.

    Meanwhile the DUP says that there was still ‘more work to be done’ on the border issue and how it votes on the final deal ‘will depend on its contents’.

    Jesus Christ, talk about pushing a problem down the road? How has the May government’s situation changed one iota from last week?

  114. Oh dear:

    https://twitter.com/lisaocarroll/status/939081467908456448

    Meanwhile the graveyard shift and hangover morning radion presenter Nige speaks:

    https://twitter.com/lisaocarroll/status/939086605196906496

    https://twitter.com/lisaocarroll/status/939086443993075712

  115. IF this is the case I couldn’t give two fiddler’s WTF Britain does:

    https://twitter.com/lisaocarroll/status/939081718249730048?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fpolitics%2Flive%2F2017%2Fdec%2F08%2Fbrexit-border-eu-theresa-may-juncker-tusk-markets-live

  116. Paul, to me, the whole “breakthrough” is a diplomatic fudge.

    How will the “no hard border” be effected? What does “regulatory alignment” actually mean (and I work in international trade)? It sounds like political jargon and no-one knows how it will work in reality.

    I agree with you – what’s new that hadn’t been agreed months ago?

  117. Regulatory alignment should have happened ages ago.

    If the tax on oil products was the same, you’d put all the smugglers and launderers out of business in a minute.

  118. If there’s to be “regulatory alignment” (if I understand the term correctly) between the two parts of Ireland and between NI and Britain (and I hope there will), then this whole Brexit thing is an utter farce.

    In the modern world, trade is not hindered by customs or border checkpoints nearly as much as by differing standards and regulations. If the UK is to maintain EU regulations and standards just to ensure a soft border in Ireland, then it may as well stay in the EU and be done with it.

    BTW, a question for Harri, Pete (I don’t dare ask David): If the NI-RoI border issue meant that the UK in its entirety remained subject to EU regulations and had to allow every Tom, Dick and Hamid cross the border into NI and thence on to Britain, would you be prepared to jettison NI to enable full freedom for Britain.

    Pete’s term “Brexit at any cost” from yesterday is still echoing in my ears.

  119. Of course it’s a fudge Reg.

    I think that the DUP have been reigned in here using whatever means and a new wording of what was previously agreed with maybe a minor concession have been arranged in accedence to May saving face within her party. Phantom and Noel both make sensible comments too.

    On Radio Ulster’s ‘Talkback’ this afternoon they had a pundit on saying that if this is accepted it would be an economic miracle for the wee sixes’ economy in terms of non EU businesses seeking access to the market and vice versa with even the DUP’s Jeffery Donaldson praising it as ‘great news for NI’

    Still, the ‘breakthrough has got the nobody Nige onto the airwaves again and the ATW Brexit bots away silently licking their jingoistic wounds. So, it seems all in all to have been a good day so far.

  120. This is an interesting one:

    “In the absence of agreed solutions, the United Kingdom will maintain full alignment with those rules of the Internal Market and the Customs Union which, nor or in the future, support North-South coopertion, the all-island economy and the protection of the 1998 Agreement.”

    A typical verbal fudge. If it refers to the rules that in wording or intention specifically relate to Northern Ireland or the border, then it means almost nothing.
    But if it instead refers to the rules whose application affects the economy of the island of Ireland, then it means very much, in fact it means everything, as all rules currently affecting NI promote (one should assume) the economy of the place, and by extension the economy of all of Ireland. Theoretically no regulation in either part of Ireland does not affect both parts and thus the present EU system remains fully in place.

    It also says that the EU, pushed by Ireland, could bring in some law in future that could affect NI and in that case the UK govt would have to incorporate it into UK law. Well, that could be fun.

    Sir Vince Cable said this morning that “it appears Britain could be tied to the single market and customs union until the Irish border question is solved, which could take a century.”

    You asked for it. 🙂

  121. The above quote BTW is from today’s EU-UK agreement.

  122. The law of unintended consequences Noel?

    Maybe I’m beginning to warm to this Brexit thing after all 🙂

  123. There were also hardline Brexiteer callers phoning Radio Ulster this afternoon to say how treacherous the DUP are and how the ‘Roman Catholic’ Church are behind this.

    Magnificent, delicious pandemonium ❤

  124. “…and how the ‘Roman Catholic’ Church are behind this.”

    LOL. If only.

    How much more enthusiastic we would all be for the EU if the bumbling Eureaucracy were based in sunny Rome within the beautiful Vatican…instead of in nondescript buildings of glass/concrete in rainy Brussels.

  125. Wise words from Sir Nigel…once again.

    ‘We can now move on to the next stage of humiliation’ says Farage as May FINALLY gets a breakthrough on EU divorce – but faces Tory fury at £40bn bill and meddling by European judges

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5158633/May-arrives-Brussels-seal-Brexit-deal.html#ixzz50gatpkpH

  126. How much more enthusiastic we would all be for the EU if the bumbling Eureaucracy were based in sunny Rome within the beautiful Vatican…instead of in nondescript buildings of glass/concrete in rainy Brussels.

    I actually agree with this, nondescript buildings, filled to the rafters, with nondescript people.

  127. Wise words from the nobody Nige:

    Frankly, there have been no negotiations. We’ve waited months and months and we’ve agreed to all the things that the EU insisted on […]

    She’s doubled it to £40bn, I’ve no doubt it will go to £60bn. We are dealing with completely unreasonable people … frankly we look like mugs!

    You stick to talk show radio in Britain and let the Irish deal with Ireland Nige 🙂

  128. “the United Kingdom will maintain full alignment with those rules of the Internal Market and the Customs Union”. The DUP has forced the entire UK to stay in the Customs Union. I doubt that was their intention, but in effect that is what accommodating them has done because there can be no “hard border” and the same rules apply to NI and the UK. Whatever EU regulations that must be complied with in Belfast will also have to be complied to in all the UK.

  129. At least Brexit, has taught us Europeans one thing, attempted escape from Brussels rule is one thing, but actually leaving, is just not possible.

  130. Yeah yeah yeah.

    52% will do that.

  131. Brexit has already cost much in time and expense. Companies have relocated or have firm plans in place to do so. It has been a costly boondoggle. Don’t forget the guys who pushed for it using outright lies.

  132. Brexit has already cost much in time and expense. Companies have relocated or have firm plans in place to do so. It has been a costly boondoggle. Don’t forget the guys who pushed for it using outright lies.

    And remainers?.

  133. Liars indeed:

    Paul McMahon, on December 7th, 2017 at 2:20 PM Said:

    Here you are Noel:

    Pete Moore, on June 20th, 2016 at 9:48 PM Said:

    Phantom –
    The EU has no say in it. Membership of the European Economic Area (which is seperate from the EU) gives us full access to the entire market

    (Paul)- It also means that you have to allow the freedom of movement of all EEA members citizens to live and work in the EEA area thus increasing the current potential of movement from 27 now in the EU to 30 in the EEA:

    I particularly liked this:

    Pete Moore, on June 20th, 2016 at 10:07 PM Said:

    Paul –
    On all this reciprocal healthcare stuff (etc). It’s a matter of national law in each country. The laws exist. Brexit wouldn’t make them unexist. Brexit will not invalidate a single Brussels-inspired law made in the past decades. It won;t unwind a thing.
    We’d only see a divergence in the future long term as the UK and EU slowly go on slightly diverging roads
    .

    http://www.atangledweb.org/?p=63869

    How things change now the silk glove reveals the steel hand eh?

    Meanwhile, on the same thread:

    Harri, on December 7th, 2017 at 6:54 PM Said:

    Wonderful news..

    BREAKING: PM ‘very close’ to agreeing Irish border Brexit deal
    THERESA May is “very close” to securing a Brexit deal for the Irish border, according to reports.
    Reuters has quoted a senior Irish official as saying the negotiations between Westminster, Dublin and Stormont are “moving quickly” and could be concluded in a matter of “hours”.
    Speaking at a British Irish Chamber of Commerce event in Brussels, the official said: “It is moving quite quickly at the moment. Negotiations are continuing.
    “I think we are going to work over the next couple of hours with the UK government to close this off. I say hours because I think we are very close.”

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/889516/brexit-irish-border-latest-news-theresa-may-very-close-agreeing-deal

    http://www.atangledweb.org/?p=72146#comments

    Laugh? It would be rude not to 🙂

  134. This Brexiteer explains why he voted to leave, (well, sort of) 🙂

    http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/james-obriens-response-to-racist-brexit-voter/

Leave a Reply

You must be logged in to post a comment.