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By ATWadmin On November 23rd, 2008

The absolute uselessness of our political class is evident in the news that they appear UPSET that an on-the-run Jihadist, from Birmingham, has been killed in Wazirstan by a US missile strike, as I reported yesterday. Instead of celebrating this great success, they are now demanding to know if UK intelligence knew about this action in advance and if they provided information to the US that resulted in the “execution” of this fine British citizen –  suspected of plotting to blow up several aircraft. Do we really want to WIN the war on Islamic terror or do we go along with these sopping wet politicians who actually seek to undermine our intelligence services when as in this case, they achieve a significant success?


  1. What can one say, David? This and your previous post just highlights the palpable stench that is spreading like a rotting carcass through society.
    What WILL future historians make of this terrible period…

  2. How can we win the war against terrorism when our MPs (who are there to represent us) regret any action by our allies and ourselves which results in the demise of an enemy? Before long some MPs will be blaming us when Jihadists bring death and destruction to our streets, railways and airports. Oh I forgot – some do already!

  3. It’s a scandal, guys, makes me hate the political class even more.

  4. Yeah, I was somewhat surprised to see even Ptrick Mercer – of alleged FRU fame – express concern over what happened.

  5. One of the commenters on the website of The Times asked about the concern for the jihadist’s rights:

    "….surely should not apply as this man being a Terrorist has forgone his right to any fair consideration."

    I would suggest that these MPs and indeed all main parties have no further right to fair consideration. As I wrote yesterday on a thread relating to the BNP vs Political Correctness, every single institution and ‘mainstream’ political party has now been infiltrated by those who would bring about our end. The MPs cited are Conservatives – the Opposition. They are not opposing; they are not standing up for decency and law. There is no opposition except from one source.

  6. Allan – Does the BNP’s record of anti-Semitism trouble you?

  7. David- I was wondering why the BBC had this as their fornt page headline all day yesterday. Now that I know it’s going to lead to anti WoT recriminations I think I have my answer.

  8. It is hard to describe a person who is so mentaly deranged that he no longer knows the difference between a friend and an enemy.

    Could this be described as ‘Kumbayaitis’? or perhaps ‘social dementia’?

  9. DC,

    Does your record of anti-capitalism trouble you?..

  10. The point is, everyone has rights, even those you disagree with.

  11. Ernest – It’s interesting that each time I pose that question someone replies with an alternative question! That’s not the way it works chum.

  12. DC,

    Oh no they don’t, they get what they deserve, and their actions determine just what they deserve….

  13. Ernest – "Oh no they don’t"

    It’s not Punch and Judy! If you’re a human, you have human rights… this applies EVEN to those humans YOU disagree with! GASP!

  14. Well if you feel you are the only one to pose a question, then fair enough, but you aren’t, so a counter question is just the way it works…I answered yours, why don’t answer mine?

    Besides I was just butting in, you asked Alan the question. And I am in no way your ‘chum’…

  15. DC,

    Wrong again, maybe in your version of the world, but not in the real world. Tough, though you may find that, it is the reality.

  16. OK… I’m proud of my anti-capitalist stance and recent evens aptly show that people such as myself have won the argument. Free market capitalism is crumbling before our eyes. Good. It’s immoral and only serves a small minority in our world, while delivering chaos and misery to the great majority.

    And I am in no way your ‘chum’…

    Ohhhhh, who got out the wrong side of the bed ar maidin? lol

  17. Does anybody see any reason for the Conservative Party to exist? Look at their team which would replace NuLab – Cameron for Brown, Osborne for Brown/Darling. Would there be anything different at all?

  18. Allan – Does the BNP’s record of anti-Semitism trouble you?

  19. Wrong again, maybe in your version of the world, but not in the real world. Tough, though you may find that, it is the reality.

    Read the post and the link, it’s not the reality!

  20. Allan – Does the BNP’s record of anti-Semitism trouble you?

    The BNP is hardly anti-jewish when there are Jewish members and Jewish BNP councillors. The BNP is strongly pro-Israeli because it sees Israel as the embodiment of a people’s desire for nationhood. Only the BNP wanted an Israeli victory over hizbollah in the Lebanon.
    However, I am troubled by this government’s open-door immigration policies which allow unchecked into our country third-world crime, diseases, corruption, incompetence, malevolence, breeding patterns etc.
    I am troubled by this government giving away national sovereignty to the EU without any consideration of the British people.
    I am troubled by the government scorched-earth economic policies which are destroying our economy.
    I am troubled by the fact that there is no real Opposition to all of the above within Parliament.
    Given all of this, I have really no alternative to the BNP.
    It should be noted that John Tyndall, like the Fuhrer he admired, is dead and gone: so is the nazi core of British nationalism. People like me are the nationalists now. I didn’t see too many ‘knuckle-draggers’ in that membership list.

    Wednesday, November 19, 2008 at 11:57AM | allan@aberdeen

    In short, DC, and in answer to the same question which you put elsewhere, the matter of whether the BNP is anti-Jewish or not is but a minor detail when set against the policies being carried out against the interests of Britain and its people by the clique which is currently in power or by the Conservatives who would be in power to implement these same policies. I have noticed that you don’t seem to be too troubled by anti-jewish sentiment.

    If there’s anything which isn’t clear from the above and you would wish more said about it, please ask and I’ll discuss.

  21. Thanks Allan.

    The BNP has a history of anti-Semitism, particularly under John Tyndall. Just wondered if this troubled you, that’s all.

    the policies being carried out against the interests of Britain and its people by the clique which is currently in power or by the Conservatives who would be in power to implement these same policies

    So… everybody who has been elected by the British public! Welcome to democracy.

    I have noticed that you don’t seem to be too troubled by anti-jewish sentiment.

    I hope you can back that up.

  22. DC, your criticism of Israel’s measures of self-defence and protection and your apparent favouring of Iran’s imminent acquisition of nuclear weapons leads me to conclude that you are untroubled by anti-Jewish sentiment.

    On democracy in the UK, would you be able to state what differences there are between NuLab and the Cons on any of the issues which I mentioned previously?

  23. Oh, DC, is this racist?


    If so, which parts are racist, or is all of it racist?

  24. Allan – I don’t not cheer on Israel’s aggression against Palestinians it occupies or its neighbors. Also, I don’t WANT Iran to get nukes, as I stated I’d much prefer if a deal was struck which would involve Israel disarming its nukes in return for Iran giving up its program.

    If you detect anti-Jewish sentiment you are seeing something that is not there. I look upon all religions similarly in that I think they’re all batty. Judaism is no better nor worse than any other and I’ve nothing against people who practice it.

  25. With Judaism, DC, Jews don’t force others to become Jews under pain of death or permanent subjugation. Likewise Christianity, Buddhism, Sikhism, Shinto, etc. But there is one belief system which is different and you know which one it is.

  26. Christianity has plenty of blood on its hand my friend.

  27. What year is this, DC?

  28. Allan your bigotry towards Islam is pretty obvious. There are many, many interpretations of Islam, this you seem ignorant of.

  29. How many interpretations are there of:

    Hadith 1:13– "I have been ordered by Allah to fight with people till they bear testimony to the fact that there is no God but Allah."
    Hadith 1.24 "Narrated Ibn `Umar: Allah’s Apostle said: "I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah’s Apostle, and offer the prayers"
    Hadith 1.25"Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah’s Apostle was asked, "What is the best deed?" He replied, "To believe in Allah and His Apostle (Muhammad). The questioner then asked, "What is the next (in goodness)? He replied, "To participate in Jihad (religious fighting) in Allah’s Cause."
    Hadith 19:4294 "Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war."
    Hadith 1:35 "The person who participates in Allah’s cause (namely, in battle). . will be recompensed by Allah either with reward or booty or will be admitted to Paradise."
    Hadith 9:4 "Wherever you find infidels kill them; for whoever kills them shall have reward on the Day of Resurrection."
    Hadith 9:50, 57 "No Umma (a member of Muslim community) should be killed for killing a Kafir (an infidel). . Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him."
    Sahih Muslim 4363: "You (the Jews) should know that the earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle and I wish to expel you from this land (Arabia)
    Sahih Muslim 4366 Narrated by Umar ibn al-Khattab. Umar heard the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) say: I will expel the Jews and Christians from the Arabian Peninsula and will not leave any but Muslims

  30. And directly from the koran, one reads (if one opens one’s eyes):

    5:51 O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily God guideth not a people unjust.

    5:72-73: They do blaspheme who say: "God is Christ the son of Mary." But said Christ: "O Children of Israel! worship God, my Lord and your Lord." Whoever joins other gods with God, – God will forbid him the garden, and the Fire will be his abode. There will for the wrongdoers be no one to help. They do blaspheme who say: God is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One God. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them.

    8:12-15 Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them." This because they contended against God and His Apostle: If any contend against God and His Apostle, God is strict in punishment. Thus (will it be said): "Taste ye then of the (punishment): for those who resist God, is the penalty of the Fire." O ye who believe! when ye meet the Unbelievers in hostile array, never turn your backs to them.

    8:37-39: In order that God may separate the impure from the pure, put the impure, one on another, heap them together, and cast them into Hell. They will be the ones to have lost. Say to the Unbelievers, if (now) they desist (from Unbelief), their past would be forgiven them; but if they persist, the punishment of those before them is already (a matter of warning for them). And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God altogether and everywhere; but if they cease, verily God doth see all that they do.

    9:29 "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the last day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and his apostle nor acknowledge the religion of truth of the people of the Book (the Jews and the Christians) until they pay the Jizya [tax on non-Muslims] with willing submission and feel themselves subdued."

  31. Allan, IIRC there are something like 300 odd references to violence and violent acts in the Qu’ran. By contrast the Bible has north of 800. Now you claimed incorrectly that ".. there is one belief system which is different and you know which one it is" in respect of forced conversions and subjugation.

    Having now been shown that to be bullshit, you now resort to quoting passages from the book of the religion you obviously hate. Quotes which everyone is well aware of. But perhaps if you were really honest you would provide a list of all the nice quotes which far outnumber those you choose to cherry pick to suit your narrow agenda. One can draw a list like this for several major religions and their respective books. If you were at school your report card would say ‘Must do better’.

  32. RS, adherents of islam believe in every single word of their prophet (in the hadith) and believe also that the koran is the final, immutable and perfect word of their god. Moreover, these are not ‘references’ to violence: these are their deity’s instructions to do violence against non-believers which, I presume(?), includes you. Can you really not grasp that?

  33. AA, do adherents of other religions believe in every single word of their holy books? Or is it only muslims who aren’t allowed to interpret their religion in the manner of their choosing. Obviously the ‘adherents of islam’ who have had other religious groups living among them for centuries upon centuries must be poor muslims then eh?

  34. The koran is, to a muslim, the absolutely final and perfect word of their god: it is not there to be taken in bite-sized chunks or picked at. That is why there has been and cannot be any reformation. Their own authorities have stated that this is so and they state it as so themselves.
    Other religious groups who have lived amongst muslims live under muslims as dhimmis – Coptic Christians in Egypt,


    In Bethlehem, Christians are being driven out by muslims:


    This is not a doctrine which allows liberty.

  35. ‘That is why there has been and cannot be any reformation.’

    Ahh AA, you see, the Wahhabi’s presented themselvs as the reformed sect of Islam. Many academics agree given the puritanical nature of their interpretation. The founder saw himself as railing against the impurities and extravigancies which had leaked into the practice of Islam.

    Nobody is suggesting that muslims pick and choose at bits of the Qu’ran. Merely they are free to interpret it as they so wish(unless they are unfortunate enough to live under Wahhabi rule), which explains why there is so many diferent strands. Are you suggesting Christians should take the bible as "the absolutely final and perfect word of their god:"?

  36. The Bible has never been viewed as the Word of God: it is a historical narrative in which God plays an almost cameo role (Old Testament) and the barbarism of the time is much negated by the New Testament, which is a narrative of the life of Jesus.

    And if one contrasts the life of Jesus with that of mohammad, one learns (if one reads) that Jesus neither killed nor ordered the death of anybody nor plotted to kill anybody nor had sex with children: mohammad did the lot!

    BTW, I’m an agnostic and, in a nominally Christian land, I am free to be so.

  37. Allan

    Can you explain why the overwhelmingly vast majority of the world’s Muslims manage to go through their entire lives without carrying out or even attempting to carry out the instructions of the Koran to slaughter infidels ?

  38. Ok AA so your basically saying that Christians can interpret the bible as they so wish, but you won’t afford muslims the same respect. Even though in reality, they do so. They are wrong and you are right. You claim that the barbarism of the old testament is negated by the New. Therefore the barbarism in the Qu’ran is surely negated by the good in it too. No? It seems you sit in the lofty position of being able to dictate how muslims should treat their book and funnily enough won’t afford them the same courtesy of interpretation that you offer christians. Never mind the fact that the bible is a collection of books which have been handpicked to represent the best possible picture of Jesus. Tell me, do you think a muslim who deosn’t forcibly convert and subjugate others is a bad muslim?

  39. Allan,

    "And if one contrasts the life of Jesus with that of mohammad, one learns (if one reads) that Jesus neither killed nor ordered the death of anybody nor plotted to kill anybody nor had sex with children: mohammad did the lot!"

    Actually there is a piece of the Gospels were Jesus criticises those who do not implement the law which requires children who curse their parents to be killed. That (the instruction to kill children) appears in another piece of the Bible (if one reads).

    Here’s another part of the good news, from the Gospel of Luke (if one reads):

    But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

    Allan do you know who said that?

  40. The good in the koran is negated (abrogated) by the violence which is considered by islamic ‘scholars’ to supercede the nice bits. This is widely known so why is it having to be pointed out yet again.

    To Colm, have you ever known of muslims protesting against muslim violence? Do muslim charities ever offer unconditional aid to infidels?

    This is summarises nicely:


  41. Allan, imagine if you were a Muslim all the fun you’d have listing the crimes carried out by Christians in God’s name – countless massacres, colonisation, subjugation of entire peoples.

  42. Or more fun listing the peoples and religions exterminated or close to it lands stretching from Morocco to Egypt, continuing all the way to Indonesia.

    A vast stretch of the earth, and a nearly uniform result. Allahu Akbar indeed.

  43. Actually AA plenty of Islamic scholars and academics condemn violence. Perhaps you concern yourself too much with those of the Wahabbi or Deobandi school of thought. Mainstream muslims see as heretical the Wahabbi’s refutation of the Prophets belief in the greater Jihad(living a good life) being more important than the smaller jihad(the physical struggle). Wahabbis place emphasis on the smaller jihad. Which is why they are seen as heretical. I suggest you look at the braod spectrum of the many schools of islamic thought and not the just the bogeyman bit persistently presented in your choice of media.

  44. Allan

    Not many Muslims go out and actively protests against Muslim inspired violence, but then again not many people of any faith or nationality do that either. I have no idea of the distribution of aid by Muslim charities to non-Muslims, but that is a diversion from the fact that 99.9% of Muslims ignore the instructions in the Koran which you claim they willingly accept to be the infallible and imutable instructions of Allah to which they unreservedly obey.

  45. RS, you will find that muslim ‘clerics’ condemn violence against ‘innocents’, but the hidden clause is that only muslims can be ‘innocents’. That is the reality.


    A recent poll showed that 2/3 of muslim students in the UK disapproved of violence against non-muslims: that leaves 1/3. That would please Colm, and I’m absolutely delighted that only 1/3 of muslim students consider it OK for their co-religionists to kill people like me. Now, this is the interesting part. They also consider it OK for people such as Colm and RS to be killed, assuming that neither are muslim. But Colm and RS don’t think that they would be killed so such opinions are OK – because they think that they’re safe. The idiot judges who release jihadists and refuse to deport them think that they’re safe too: this is the problem.

  46. Allan

    I don’t consider myself to be safe from being murdered by an Islamic terrorist. No more than any other unsuspecting poor victim. Why do you have to resort to claiming thoughts that I don’t have ?

  47. Allan your misrepresentation of the survey is indeed most funny. You said

    "and I’m absolutely delighted that only 1/3 of muslim students consider it OK for their co-religionists to kill people like me."

    whereas the article says…

    "Almost one in three Muslim students in the UK believe it justifiable to kill in the name of their religion, a poll showed today.

    Most of those said such extreme action was acceptable to defend Islam from attack but a small number (4%) said it was OK to kill to promote it."

    You then say..

    "Now, this is the interesting part. They also consider it OK for people such as Colm and RS to be killed, assuming that neither are muslim."

    Another misrepresentation of the article. Basically a lie actually. Only 4% believe it was ok to kill to promote it. You want to portray that 1/3 of muslims think its ok to kill you for being non-muslim. Nowhere in the article does it say anything even remotely like that Allan, NOWHERE ! Perhaps you would care to enlighten us as to why you felt the need to twist the article and misrepresent it???????

  48. The trouble with Allan is that he is not satisified with simply condemning and campaigning against the poison of Islamic based terrorism which is a real problem that should be addressed. He has to find a way to try and taint all Muslims with the ‘terror loving’ brush which just distorts from the real fight against the small numners involved in the cult of murderous jihad.

  49. RS, the Danish cartoons are considered by muslims to be an attack.

    How would you categorise the murder of van Gogh?