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Jerusalem

By Patrick Van Roy On May 14th, 2018

The Jerusalem Embassy Act was passed into Law in 1995 by the United States 104th Congress on October 23, 1995.

Today this Law has finally come to fruition. For thousands of years Jerusalem has been and always will be the capital of the Jews. This notion that the city belongs to anyone else is nonsense. It’s like saying Athens is not the Greek capital, or Cairo is not the capital city of  Egypt, and of all Egyptians. Since the reclamation of a portion of their homeland which makes up Israel today they have rightly claimed Jerusalem as their Capital, as it has always been.

The Catholics and the Muslims both have great historical ties to the city, but they in no way diminish Israel’s right and legitimacy to claim the city as their Capital. Thousands of years of history can not be erased or ignored.

Today we Americans celebrate Israel, we acknowledge Jerusalem as its eternal Capital as we open our Embassy in the city where it belongs.

The Palestinians will no doubt be rioting as this day goes forward. As they have for weeks  hurling themselves against the walls and fences in a mad frenzy. Ask yourself why? The answer is barbaric and simple. They wish to kill the Jews; nothing less!

Israel is a Nation besieged on all sides by those that want it destroyed. Surrounded by people who can not and will not tolerate anyone that believes different than they do, ask the Catholics that once lived in the lands these people control. Right now the Arab states are “outraged” that the US stands with Israel.

CAIRO (Reuters) – The Arab League will hold an extraordinary meeting to discuss the United State’s “illegal” move of embassy to Jerusalem, state news agency MENA reported on Monday, citing an Arab diplomat.

And here is how the Russian Propaganda Network RT put out their take on the situation:

Today the United States reaffirms that we will not allow the destruction of Israel. We affirm Jerusalem as it’s Capital and we stand with them side by side partners against the chaos.

I give you President Trump’s Statement from today:

94 Responses to “Jerusalem”

  1. At the dedication ceremony for the US embassy in Jerusalem

    14 congressmen, 4 senators, and one governor are here

    Zero democrats. Zero.

    Democrats do not stand with Israel. They have turned their back on our closest ally in the Middle East

  2. pat you know about guns n ammunition
    Is it absolutely necessary to use live ammo against protesters
    plastic bullets would do the same without killing.
    is this a blood count?
    At least 43 Palestinians have been killed and 1,800 wounded by Israeli troops, Palestinian officials say, in the deadliest day of clashes since the 2014 Gaza war.

  3. Zero democrats. Zero.

    Bravo.

    An unnecessary provocation which has caused the deaths of some 43 people.

    Today is a day of shame.

  4. What a horrendous massacre.

    Shame, shame, shame.

    Slingshots versus machine guns. King David would be proud…but not of his own.

  5. Mr. McMahon,

    That’s 41 fewer potential terrorists. It’s a BRAVO in my book! Besides the law was passed in 1995. Trump is the first president with the courage to enforce the law. That doesn’t say much for 2 Democrat America haters and 1 Rino politician, now does it?

  6. That’s 41 fewer potential terrorists….. not potential terrorists definite terrorists.

    and before the next two days are done more of these terrorists will dead and wounded. It is their choice. They are attacking, no one is attacking them.

  7. An unnecessary provocation which has caused the deaths of some 43 people.
    Today is a day of shame.

    Yes Paul,there’s no other way of dressing it up, its a massacre, totally disproportionate under all the international rules of engagement .

    is that the link paul/mahons on the guidance for riot control

    http://www.ohchr.org/EN/ProfessionalInterest/Pages/UseOfForceAndFirearms.aspx

    9. Law enforcement officials shall not use firearms against persons except in self-defence or defence of others against the imminent threat of death or serious injury

    I’d like to hear how israeli solders behind barbed wire / watch towers and bullet proof screen with sniper rifles can claim ” It was me or him your honour ) sad day for humanity .
    sickening

  8. //ask the Catholics that once lived in the lands these people control.//

    Yes, the Israelis drove Catholics and other Christians from their land with the same ethnic lunacy that made them kick out Muslims.

  9. It’s now 52 dead, all because of a gratuitous and needless provocation.

    Sniper and machine fire directed against stone throwers and slingshot users as well as aircraft and tank strikes firther inside Gaza. An absolute fucking shame on humanity.You know how bad it is when Germany’s calling on Israel to defend itself proportionally.

    That’s 41 fewer potential terrorists. It’s a BRAVO in my book!

    Why to go Eddie, yes, that’s the way to create another generation of anti American and Israeli hatred and violence in the Levant. If that’s your idea of strategical thinking then your book obviously comes with crayons.

  10. It’s now 52 dead, all because of a gratuitous and needless provocation.

    I could hardly contain myself when the US Embassy moved from Grosvenor Square to Vauxhall.

  11. ahh the lazy”terrorist” moniker EDDIE so easy so easy isn’t it for you and your ilk,
    can necklace a human being with that tag and anything is justified, so transparent so ignorant ,Assad uses same about legitimate opposition.. you’re welcome to it .

  12. Look snowflakes.

    These aren’t “protestors” as we know such unwashed creatures. They are terrorist enablers. They’re trying to damage the border wall to allow Hamas terrorists to infiltrate and kill Israelis.

    If it was just a protest the IDF would shrug it off. But they cannot shrug off attempts to breach the wall. They are defending it at all costs.

    Your rage ought to be directed at Hamas, which cares a lot less for Palestinian lives than the IDF does. Hamas is lining up the cameras and then sending the dupes charging at the fire. It’s no less cynical than what Soviet commissars did with peasant Red Army recruits.

  13. Your rage ought to be directed at Hamas, which cares a lot less for Palestinian lives than the IDF does

    Indeed Pete, the IDF cares so much about Palestinian lives that they used state of the art sattelite position and guidance to obliterate four young kids playing football into dust on a Gaza beach with a multi thousand dollar heavy shell fored from a multi billion dollar war machine on the eastern Med sea.

    All paid for by American tax payer $$$ of course.

  14. It’s no less cynical than what Soviet commissars did with peasant Red Army recruits.

    Or when Brit officers forced at gunpoint a generation of young, expendable working class Tommies over the top into certain death in WWI Pete?

  15. Yeah Paul .. and .. and .. and .. when IRA recruiters duped expendable young Paddies into picking up a gun too!

    Let’s stop the whataboutery and grow up.

  16. The IRA duped young Paddies etc etc?

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    Pete, the single biggest contributing factor to young Irishman killing young British men on Irish streets was the behaviour of those expendable working class Brit kids during Bloody Sunday, Ballymurphy, the Falls Curfew, the New Lodge Massacre, kicking doors in and wrecking houses, sexually insulting the local women, battering the natives etc.

    It seems what’s sauce for the Red Army isn’t sauce for the British Tommy?

    Ohhhh, they don’t like it up them Sir.

  17. The Insanity of Noel and Paul canonizing the Pallies is a direct result of the same mental disorder that causes them to do the same to those that have brought shame to all moral and decent Irish.

    You regretfully time and time again side with Terrorists both in your homeland and everywhere else in the world.

    Your upbringing has wired your morality in reverse.

  18. Supporting Israel doesn’t not mean (or should not mean) supporting it’s every action. One can support Israel and disapprove of unilateral declarations of Jerusalem as its Capital. One can support Israel and question the use of lethal force against protests from those in Gaza.

  19. Pat, condeming Israel for heavy handedness and hugely unproportionate response of shooting stone throwers with machine gun and sniper fire is not ‘siding with terrorists’

    Regarding the Irish conflict, you have stated previously that had you been in the same situation you probably would have had the same reaction.

  20. I imagine in respect for centuries old occupants Patrick is leading the movement to return his State of Pennsylvania to the Shawnee Indians.

  21. Regarding the Irish conflict, you have stated previously that had you been in the same situation you probably would have had the same reaction.

    There is a big miscommunication here…… If by same reaction you mean I would go on or support a campaign of terror you’ve totally misconstrued a lot along the way.

    The IRISH cause was just and righteous, the methods employed have tainted our Irish Heritage for all time. A stain of shame that can never be washed away.

  22. Mahons, on May 14th, 2018 at 8:39 PM Said: Edit Comment
    Supporting Israel doesn’t not mean (or should not mean) supporting it’s every action. One can support Israel and disapprove of unilateral declarations of Jerusalem as its Capital. One can support Israel and question the use of lethal force against protests from those in Gaza.

    There was NO unilateral declarations of Jerusalem as its Capital… What there was is LAW passed in 1995.

    I understand that you have a challenged understanding of the Law.

    The use of lethal force is necessary when showering them in nonlethal force does not deter them from their nonstop assault on the border to enter Israel to kill Jews.

  23. The Irish cause was not only just but the reaction to what happened was not only the correct response but it was the absolutely correct and right response with the only criticism being that it should have ended at least ten years before it did.

    However, this thread is titled Jeruselem?

    Look, I have constantly unequivically condemned the IRA when they killed innocent civillians although this was done much more through incompetence and recklessness than intention.

    Now, the IDF used sattelite pin point targetting imagery to launch a multi thousand dollar heavy shell from a multi billion dollar war weapon a mile out at sea and turn foUr innocent kids playing football on a Gaza beach to dust.

    Can you condemn the IDF?

  24. By unilateral I referred not to domestic politics, but rather or foreign policy politics.

  25. The Irish cause was always unjust, the repeated attempts to violently overturn democratically settled and internationally accepted outcomes, by psychopathic terrorists.

    To assert otherwise is utter drivel and piffle, but then an Irish republican never uttered a true word.

  26. Undemocratic shite Pete but I suspect you already know that and are just attempting to shit stir.

  27. Mahons, on May 14th, 2018 at 9:21 PM Said: Edit Comment
    By unilateral I referred not to domestic politics, but rather or foreign policy politics.

    My point proven you have no grasp of the Law that was passed….. lmao

    Thank you.

  28. In reality, of course, Irish people were historically much too soft in their reaction to foreign oppression. Victims of the friendly, accommodating nature for which we are internationally renowned.

    Back on topic: Anyone with an ounce of humanity can see that the IDF is using disproportionate force against these protestors. For God’s sake leave your ideology to one side for once.

  29. My respect for President Trump grows day by day. How honoured America is to have him. I wish to God that we could have a prime minister with a thousandth of his mettle, instead of the globalist vermin we are enslaved under.

  30. I understand the law, you don’t understand unilateral action.

  31. maons paul asked above
    can you point to the international laws are regards this situation and proportionality
    because i think this action today constitutes a war crime ?

  32. Those who sit on the fence instead of boycotting Israel have blood on their hands.

  33. I would boycott Israel over that disgraceful EuroVision Song that was declared ‘winner’ and how next year’s abomination will be held in Jerusalem. No wonder that we (Uncle Adolf and I) agree with ATW’s cucks and traitors for once…..

    “For while the Zionists try to make the rest of the world believe that the national consciousness of the Jew finds its satisfaction in the creation of a Palestinian state, the Jews again slyly dupe the dumb Goyim. It doesn’t even enter their heads to build up a Jewish state in Palestine for the purpose of living there; all they want is a central organization for their international world swindle, endowed with its own sovereign rights and removed from the intervention of other states: a haven for convicted scoundrels and a university for budding crooks.”

    But on the protesters, exactly what would ‘proportionate’ response by the IDF be? Are Israeli soldiers supposed to get involved in a stone-fight with the Palestinians?

  34. But I still can’t see why Israel just doesn’t let them all in. After all, Israel has a preponderance of jews, and jews are pro-immigration, right?

    https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/.premium-holocaust-survivors-battle-trump-immigration-policies-1.5484094

    With moving public testimonies of childhoods spent in fear of raids and mass arrests, Holocaust survivors are being enlisted in the battles against harsh Trump immigration policies being implemented across the United States.

    As individual states and cities grapple with new federal policies requiring local police to act as agents of immigration authorities, survivors are pointing to parallels with World War II when local authorities in Europe cooperated with the Nazi regime.

    And…..

    https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-trump-is-a-far-greater-threat-to-jews-than-iran-1.5454674

    Opinion The Trump Administration Is a Far Greater Threat to Jews Than Iran

    The administration’s bigotry, directed at both communities, opens the door to Jewish and Iranian Americans to find common ground.
    Adam Weinstein Mar 29, 2017 6:53 PM

    So come on Israel – open your gates and let the poor and the helpless in. Trump is a threat to your well-being and the Palestinian and Syrian neighbours need security so #IsraelLetThemIn

  35. Petr – The use of lethal force should be in proportion to the actual threat. From what I’ve seen it was not in this case. Certainly knowing the protests would be coming there were alternatives. This also does not excuse Hamas for provoking the incident.

  36. …….should be in proportion to the actual threat.

    So what should the response have been?

  37. Israel has gone too far. The wholesale slaughter of today should be strongly condemned by every civilized nation. The physical structures Israel set up and orders to their troops show they had no intention of handling protesters in a proper manner and meant to mow down hundreds. They had plenty of time to plan an appropriate response to protesters and decided on wholesale slaughter. It is clear for all the world to see.

    Trump endorsed the slaughter plan and contributed to it by moving the embassy. There was no good reason to move the embassy to a contested place. Israel needs a change in government to a better one than it currently has. Israel is an international outlaw protected for now by bully Trump. Sooner or later Trump will be gone and where will Israel be then?

  38. “That’s 41 fewer potential terrorists.”

    The actual terrorists were the ones who murdered the 41.

  39. self defense is not murder

  40. Mahons, on May 14th, 2018 at 10:03 PM Said: Edit Comment
    I understand the law, you don’t understand unilateral action.

    You put no context…. so your context is what unilateral action as in our country recognizing it as it’s capital?

    I took your statement as Trump acted with unilateral action.

    Either way your are still wrong.

    From my first assumption…. A Law was passed by the representatives of the American People to recognize Jerusalem as Israels Capital. It passed BOTH houses and was Signed into Law by the President. Then not acted on for over 20 years. Now it has.

    Second unilateral action assumption because you don’t elaborate your point because you lack the capability to do so… That the US did this as a unilateral action.

    What Nations we recognize and we were the first Nation to Recognize Israel as a state when it was formed we do as we choose. The United States needs no permission or consensus to do anything. We recognize the State First and rerecognized it’s Capital First.

    But third and most importantly NO outside Nation has the right to say what another Nations Capital is or is not. To not recognize it is an insult.

    Mahons as usual you make a poor argument for your position as in no argument. You don’t ever explain or elaborate on anything instead you make decrees, but you are not royalty and you are a very poor orator on anything that you believe or stand for.

    So as I said thanks by showing your lack of ability to elaborate that you as usual don’t know shit.

  41. // we were the first Nation to Recognize Israel as a state when it was formed //

    That isn’t true either.

  42. when you tell lies enough you believe your own BS
    Its obvious Gaza is an over-populated hell-hole of depravition, a ghettoised prison of pain and humiliation. That the people would want to protest before a wall on the week of their Nakba is what anyone would do , they are young men without jobs, without hope, what do you expect, children old men and women without weapons, to have them slaughtered in 2018 is simply an un speakable crime . Netenyahoo mutters sumthing about Hamas, do you see them , no you see a population of protestors of varying ages..

  43. water canons would sufficeth if you have to , what policeNI use against loyalists when they get into a steam when the parades commission refuses a March into Catholic Areas.
    No-one dead, you can therefore only conclude that the supporters here of Netenyahoo enjoying the blood-sport, shame on you altogether. the actions you support are indefensible in any court of the world

  44. Here’s a suggestion. Remove all Palestinians from Gaza. Incorporate Gaza directly into Israel. Remove all Jewish settlers scattered through the West Bank . Transfer the Jewish settlers to Gaza , transfer the displaced Palestinians to the former Jewish settlements in the West Bank. Make the West Bank the new single unified Palestinian state and even Israel benefits by gaining new territory in Gaza. Not perfect but worth a try eh ?

  45. Colm, like all previous “settlements”, your solution involves Palestinians losing even more land.

    And how are you going to fit the huge population of Gaza, as well as returning refugees (if that’s what you meant), into the former Jewish settlements in Palestine?

    A better solution is

    – a return to the 1967 borders (except in Jerusalem),
    – an international – and tough – military force along the frontier between Palestine and Israel,
    – all countries in the region to recognise Israel’s borders as inviolate, while all countries in the west do the same for Palestine.
    – a corridor linking Gaza to Palestine to be used by both sides in return for a Palestinian compromise on Jerusalem (i.e. Palestinian Jerusalem withdrawing somewhat from the Green Line).
    – citizens from both countries having full rights to travel and work in the other country;
    – Jewish settlers in Palestine to become Palestinian or remain Israeli citizens (similar to NI) or choose to return to Israel.
    – Refugees: Vacated settlements to be made available to refugees returning from the Palestinian diaspora. Palestine recognise that refugees abandon all claims to their properties in Israel.

    Now, where are my Nobel laurels?

  46. But third and most importantly NO outside Nation has the right to say what another Nations Capital is or is not.

    Eh? who told you that?

    Of course it has. When there is a contested city like Jeruselem any nation has the right to say whether they recognise it as a capital of another nation or not. You may not like it and you may disagree with it but to say that ‘no outside Nation has the right’ to set its own dipliomatic criteria with another nation is simply incorreect, of course they have that right.

    To not recognize it is an insult.

    And?

    I personally find Israel’s hugely disproportionate response of subjecting stone throwers to sniper and machine gun fire much more insulting but I’m sure that the pro Israel lobby both here and further afield care about whether I feel insulted or not.

    As to the question of what a proportionate response would have been, various baton rounds, flashballs, water cannons, rocksalt shells and gas. All (much lesser) non lethal alternatives.

  47. Noel, points 1 2 4,(monitored by an international observation force), and reparations for those that lost property in 48 regarding point 7 is what Hamas have said they’ll accept as the basis for a two state solution.

  48. // points 1 2 4,(monitored by an international observation force), and reparations for those that lost property in 48 regarding point 7 is what Hamas have said they’ll accept as the basis for a two state solution.//

    Paul, all Palestinians and the Arab countries have said they’ll accept that.
    But Israel wants to hold onto Palestinian land and its desire for peace is unfortunately not stronger than its greed.

  49. But Israel wants to hold onto Palestinian land and its desire for peace is unfortunately not stronger than its greed.

    Yes, unfortunately we know that to be true too.

  50. Patrick – formal diplomatic recognition of Israel was first made by the Soviet Union. Although de facto recognition of Israel was made by the US in 1948, it wasn’t until 1949 that the US formally recognized Israel. As an aside, this is not a place of oration. It is important to understand history and language if you wish to repair your reputation for daily error here.

  51. “But third and most importantly NO outside Nation has the right to say what another Nations Capital is or is not”

    In normal circumstances, yes. But when East Jerusalem isn’t part of your state as currently constituted, it is provocative at the very least.

    It would be like the Rep of Ireland declaring Armagh as its new capital (after all it is the historic, ecclesiastical Capital of All-Ireland so makes perfect sense).

  52. Oh my god he actually stated some facts to bolster his position it’s gonna snow…..(not the position we were arguing about)…but he tried.

    No Mahons it’s a place to debate views and positions…. something you have never done from day one. You make statements 9 times out of 10 without an explanation of why you think it or hold it to be true. It has been a complaint I’ve made against you for over a decade.

    When confronted you back away or get nasty. So bullshit dude, if I make an error I admit it or I explain why it’s not an error.

    Get over yourself.

  53. If that in the case you could admit your errors as to history (first nation to recognize Israel) or language (commentary here is not oration). We will all stand by.

  54. Interesting reaction to my diatribe by the others…. I have to step out shortly, but lets see if I can respond to a few… First Jude

    jude, on May 15th, 2018 at 8:17 AM Said: Edit Comment
    when you tell lies enough you believe your own BS
    Its obvious Gaza is an over-populated hell-hole of depravition, a ghettoised prison of pain and humiliation. That the people would want to protest before a wall on the week of their Nakba is what anyone would do , they are young men without jobs, without hope, what do you expect, children old men and women without weapons, to have them slaughtered in 2018 is simply an un speakable crime . Netenyahoo mutters sumthing about Hamas, do you see them , no you see a population of protestors of varying ages..

    If Gaza is an overpopulated hell hole it’s not the Israelis fault it’s the Gazans fault. Gaza is a prime piece of real estate. Oceanfront property that could have been made into a resort. It also had a thriving agricultural industry when it was given to the pallies. The Pallies CHOSE not to do develop this land and they CHOSE to destroy what business was there.

    As for population it depends on you ask. The world population review and other sources say 660,000 Wiki says 1.82 Million take either number and it is not over populated in anyway.

    It has the same population if you go on the high end as Philadelphia 1.57 million. In roughly the same amount of square miles.

    The Gazans had Billions of dollars given to them by the world to develop their state. Once again they CHOSE not to. Instead they bought rockets and arms which the rain down on their neighbor on a regular basis.

    They have no jobs because the chose a government that has done nothing to create any. They have no hope because they CHOOSE to dedicate themselves to the killing of Jews rather than the betterment of their people.

    The Israelis are not wading into their state and shooting them. They are standing at their border repelling terrorists trying to storm the gates.

    Protesters don’t rain missiles on their neighbors or throw bricks and fire bombs. That is not a protest it’s an attack. An attack ordered by their CHOSEN government Hamass. If they attack a superior force over and over again by the thousands when those they attack respond some are going to die. 55 I believe is the count at the moment.

    When you consider that thousands are attacking the border it shows great restraint on the Israeli side that so few have been killed.

    If Gaza is a hellhole it is one of it’s own making. If people are killed trying to attack the border they are killed because they CHOSE to attack.

    They are responsible, not the jews.

  55. People killing each other over who has the best imaginary friend in the sky.
    The whole situation in the Middle East would be laughable, if it wasn’t so tragic.

  56. As for population it depends on you ask. The world population review and other sources say 660,000 Wiki says 1.82 Million take either number and it is not over populated in anyway.

    It has the same population if you go on the high end as Philadelphia 1.57 million. In roughly the same amount of square miles.

    Absolutely incorrect.

    Philly has an estimated population of 1,567,872 people living on 135 sq miles:

    http://www.pennlive.com/life/2017/05/philadelphia_is_no_longer_the.html

    Gaza by comparison has an estimated population of 750,000, approx half that of Philly, living on 17 square miles.

    This means there are 42,600 people per square mile.

    http://worldpopulationreview.com/world-cities/gaza-population/

    As Israel also controls the electricty and water supply into Gaza as well as the movement of its citizens it is effectively an open, overcrowded prison.

  57. The Israelis are not wading into their state and shooting them

    No, they’re just flying in and bombing them:

    The military said Israeli aircraft conducted a total of 12 strikes inside the Gaza Strip throughout the day, in response to attacks on troops by Palestinian rioters.

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/clashes-erupt-along-gaza-israel-border-ahead-of-us-embassy-inauguration/

  58. for Mahons…. because I am a man of my word.

    I was wrong on this point.

    The Soviet Union was the first country to recognise Israel de jure on 17 May 1948, followed by Nicaragua, Czechoslovakia, Serbia, and Poland. The United States extended de jure recognition after the first Israeli election, on 31 January 1949.

    As for oration, debate, argument or simply just stating your case I am not wrong. You very rarely flesh out any position you hold. You never have, which is why I have viewed you as a disappointment. You have the skill you just lack the spine.

  59. for the German

    Noel, on May 15th, 2018 at 9:02 AM Said: Edit Comment
    Colm, like all previous “settlements”, your solution involves Palestinians losing even more land.

    And how are you going to fit the huge population of Gaza, as well as returning refugees (if that’s what you meant), into the former Jewish settlements in Palestine?

    A better solution is

    – a return to the 1967 borders (except in Jerusalem),
    – an international – and tough – military force along the frontier between Palestine and Israel,
    – all countries in the region to recognise Israel’s borders as inviolate, while all countries in the west do the same for Palestine.
    – a corridor linking Gaza to Palestine to be used by both sides in return for a Palestinian compromise on Jerusalem (i.e. Palestinian Jerusalem withdrawing somewhat from the Green Line).
    – citizens from both countries having full rights to travel and work in the other country;
    – Jewish settlers in Palestine to become Palestinian or remain Israeli citizens (similar to NI) or choose to return to Israel.
    – Refugees: Vacated settlements to be made available to refugees returning from the Palestinian diaspora. Palestine recognise that refugees abandon all claims to their properties in Israel.

    Now, where are my Nobel laurels?

    Noel if you want a right of return fine give the Pallies the right to return…. to the Arab nations that drove them out…. but such things are beyond you so lets just stick to what you said.

    – a return to the 1967 borders (except in Jerusalem),
    So after being attacked by it’s neighbors it should give the land they cleared in defeating their attackers back to the enemy and concede half their capital… Why?

    Lets look at the territory Israel secured in the 67 war shall we…

    https://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/12244734_f520.jpg

    now look at Israel TODAY

    https://i.ytimg.com/vi/T3V3XKZ9diA/maxresdefault.jpg

    What I see is they’ve already given back much more than they ever should have, they should have kept every inch of territory they cleared.

    – an international – and tough – military force along the frontier between Palestine and Israel,

    Who? What international force, the UN? Who is to pay for it?

    – all countries in the region to recognise Israel’s borders as inviolate, while all countries in the west do the same for Palestine.

    A nice dream…. it’s been offered several times. Each time denied by the Arabs not the Jews.

    – a corridor linking Gaza to Palestine to be used by both sides in return for a Palestinian compromise on Jerusalem (i.e. Palestinian Jerusalem withdrawing somewhat from the Green Line).

    So concede more land in the middle of the country and divide Jerusalem… lmao NO.

    – citizens from both countries having full rights to travel and work in the other country;

    Something that happens quite regularly. It only ends when the pallies use that freedom to send bombers in to kill civilians.

    – Jewish settlers in Palestine to become Palestinian or remain Israeli citizens (similar to NI) or choose to return to Israel.

    Palestine…. what is Palestine? All of Israel sits in the REGION known as Palestine. Confused thinking from your brainwashed youth.

    – Refugees: Vacated settlements to be made available to refugees returning from the Palestinian diaspora. Palestine recognise that refugees abandon all claims to their properties in Israel.

    The problems in this statement also go to your mentality rather than reality, but I’ll address it as you state it.

    The Palestinian diaspora are formed of Palestinian-originated communities living outside of the region of Palestine. The first large-scale emigration of Palestinian Christians out of Palestine began in the mid-19th century as a response to the oppression of Christians by the Ottoman Empire.

    Do the Christians get the right of return? Do they get the right of return to all the places they’ve been driven from in the ME? Can we reclaim the cities of the first 7 churches of Christ, or do only the Muslims get a right of return?

    Now, where are my Nobel laurels?

    Noel you are the last person to be considered, right behind me….

  60. Paul

    Gaza

    Population: 1.82 million (2014)
    Area: 139 sq miles (360 km²)

    Philadelphia

    Population: 1.57 million (2016)
    Area: 142.71 sq miles (369.62 km²)

    If the Gazans bought machinery instead of weapons to produce electricity and desalinate water they could supply their own, and their movement wouldn’t be restricted if they weren’t trying to kill their neighbors.

  61. //I was wrong on this point.//

    You are wrong on practically every point.

    //Do the Christians get the right of return? //

    Ideally, those driven out by Israel sshould have a right to return to Israel, but my solution of putting them up in vacated settlements (although, vast and all as the settlements are, they would hardly be enough to absorb all ethnically cleansed Palestinians) was a pragmatic, not a principled one.

    //So after being attacked by it’s neighbors it should give the land they cleared in defeating their attackers back to the enemy//

    Israel wasn’t attacked; it attacked its neighbours and captured the West Bank, now Palestine, Gaza, etc. You think otherwise because, as you show practically every day, you know nothing about history.

    In fact, when you said “I was wrong on this point”, it’s practically the first thing you got right here in months.

  62. Israel wasn’t attacked;

    What a convoluted mind you have…. 4 arab nations mass troops and weapons on all sides and the sea and they should have waited until the shelling started to defend themselves?

    Oh ok Skippy…

    And one nation humiliated 4 in just 6 days…. but they should act like they lost…. lmao

  63. They weren’t planning to attack. In fact, if you knew the history – including as told by the Israelis – you’d know that the entire Israeli plan of attack was based on the Egyptians being fooled into believing that Israel wasn’t going to attack them, so that they would not be on their guard when Israel then did launch its attack.

    And it worked. Israel moved most of its forces back from the line just before the attack. The Egyptians then assumed there would be no attack and it also withdrew its forces. The Israelis then – according to plan – rushed back its forces, attacked and overran the Egyptians.

    Check out the history and you’ll see I’m right. None of the Israeli strategy would make sense if Israel thought that Egypt was going to attack.

    In fact, you don’t even know your own nation’s history (as usual). Before the war started, the US had warned Israel against attacking and was furious with Israel when the attack started.

    And poor Patrick thought Israel was “attacked by it’s neighbors”. You are a joke.
    Israel obviously finds it as easy to fool people like you as it did the Egyptian defences in 1967.

    You have been fed a mountain of lies and you swallowed all of it. But at least you are not alone in the US. Probably most Americans believe the same shit that you do.

    And it’s easy to see why Israel likes people to believe like Patrick. Otherwise even Americans would realise that its occupation of the West Bank and East Jerusalem was the loot from a war of aggression.

  64. Noel you don’t know your own history let alone anyone else.

    It was them thar sneaky jews they tricked them into it…. you sound like Alan

  65. Noel and Seamus have the strongest grasp of history of all who comment here.

  66. roflmao…. yeah like you do on the Constitution…

  67. Look you can piss and moan all you want, the Fact is the Pallies don’t want peace they want dead jews. It’s just that simple.

    Fact 2 we won’t allow it.

    Fact 3 the fact that this makes the rest of the world throw a hissy fit…. ice cream on the cake.

  68. Pat, you conveniantly ommitted these sentences from your stats above:

    Gaza ranks as the 3rd most densely populated polity in the world […]

    An extensive Israeli buffer zone within the Strip renders much land off-limits to Gaza’s Palestinians

    Due to the Israeli and Egyptian border closures and the Israeli sea and air blockade, the population is not free to leave or enter the Gaza Strip, nor allowed to freely import or export goods

    As I say above, it is effectively an open, overcrowded prison.

  69. Aid to Israel is corrupting Israel:

    Matti Peled in San Francisco May 1992

    Major-General Matti Peled talks about the American aid to Israel, the American policy in the Middle-East, the Palestinian anger and resentment and about the nuclear dangers.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Xbh9hhskzg

    This lecture was given in 1992 and what General Peled says is now shown as being true.

    On the 1967 war, the Israelis noticed that the Egyptian army was not ready for any war and there was an excellent opportunity to acquire territories and also eliminate all potential enemies – in six days!! (see as of 3.00 – minutes of meetings of Israeli military)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zQDiTmu-YI

  70. Paul no I didn’t include the oh poor persecuted terrorist propaganda… just numbers.

    Buffer zone wouldn’t be needed if the animals didn’t bite…..

  71. Israel is a sectarian and bigoted state. We disapprove of sectarianism and bigotry in all cases except some support it in the case of Israel and some other ME countries. Why is Israel an exception from the norms? Israel sectarianism and bigotry is the major problem in resolving many ME problems. Perhaps Israel should be forced to drop its sectarianism and bigotry. It might be a very positive thing for the region. We believe countries are better without sectarianism and bigotry, so we should encourage Israel and other ME countries to free themselves of those practices.

  72. Paul no I didn’t include the oh poor persecuted terrorist propaganda… just numbers.

    Like the numbers you were quoting above Pat?

    So, you deliberately omit pieces of information that you know to be correct from your own citation because it doesn’t fit with your narrative and then when questioned on the ommissions declare that the info that doesn’t suit your point is ‘propaganda?’

    Interesting. Those kind of tactics seem familiar.

  73. Here’s some more numbers Pat:

    The Israeli prime minister, Binjamin Netanyahu, has shrunk Gaza’s habitable land mass by 44%, with an edict establishing a 3km (1.8-mile) buffer zone, a “no-go” zone for Palestinians – and that’s quite significant, because a good part of Gaza is only 3 to 4 miles wide. Over 250,000 Palestinians within this zone must leave their homes, or be bombed. As their territorial space collapses, 1.8m Gazans now living in 147 square miles will be compressed into 82 square miles.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/aug/05/gaza-buffer-zone-dennis-kucinich

    I’m afraid your stats above are skewed.

    As I said, it is effectively an open, overcrowded prison.

  74. and like I said all of that Paul is the fault of the Pallies no one else.

    They need a buffer because Gaza CHOSE to be terrorist camp. It’s the same size as Philly and the whole one side of the country is great beach front property.

  75. Pat,

    The reasons for the Israeli absorbing of land in Gaza are open to discussion but are secondary to the particular point in question here.

    The article that you cited stated information how Palestinians are prohibited from accessing much of the land in Gaza (40%) thus making it enormously densly populated and how Gazans are not allowed freedom of movement.

    You deliberately ommitted this information as it was contradictory to the point you were making.

  76. no I didn’t first off I didn’t cite any article on the land and population. I just gave the land mass and population in comparison to Philly.

    Gaza was a paradise given to the Pallies with Billions of Dollars to develop it.

    They CHOSE not to.

  77. No I didn’t first off I didn’t cite any article on the land and population.

    Population: 1.82 million (2014)
    Area: 139 sq miles (360 km²)

    Paul no I didn’t include the oh poor persecuted terrorist propaganda… just numbers.

    Paul McMahon, on May 15th, 2018 at 7:36 PM Said:

    Pat, you conveniantly ommitted these sentences from your stats above:

    Gaza ranks as the 3rd most densely populated polity in the world […]

    An extensive Israeli buffer zone within the Strip renders much land off-limits to Gaza’s Palestinians

    Due to the Israeli and Egyptian border closures and the Israeli sea and air blockade, the population is not free to leave or enter the Gaza Strip, nor allowed to freely import or export goods

    As I say above, it is effectively an open, overcrowded prison.

    As you can see. Your figures are skewed and your comparison with Philly is absolute folly.

  78. Why do they not have an ability to freely import or export goods?

  79. because they smuggle in explosives and weapons

  80. You win the cigar.

    If the Hamas and prior govt didn’t smuggle in explosives and weapons which were used to attack Israel, the situation could have been different

    That detail of smuggling of weapons must be discussed whenever ” bloackade ” is mentioned.

    The Gaza government is responsible for the blockade being as severe as it is.

  81. that’s what I’ve been arguing for 3 days….. Gaza is what it is as a result of what they CHOSE.

  82. They are an oppressed people, but they have made things a thousand times worse for themselves by voting in an extermination based government, and by using completely idiotic protest tactics. They are oppressing themselves.

    I wish I could think of some solution to this one.

  83. Why do they not have an ability to freely import or export goods?

    Phantom, see above:

    The reasons for the Israeli absorbing of land in Gaza are open to discussion but are secondary to the particular point in question here.

    The article that you cited stated information how Palestinians are prohibited from accessing much of the land in Gaza (40%) thus making it enormously densly populated and how Gazans are not allowed freedom of movement.

    You deliberately ommitted this information as it was contradictory to the point you were making.

    The issue is that Gaza is incredibley densely populated and any attempted mitigation of Gaza’s atrocious living conditions by comparison to Philly or anywhere is is dishonest.

    What you state above is certainly a discussion to be had but it’s a separate discussion from the one above.

  84. But they have made things a thousand times worse for themselves by voting in an extermination based government

    As discussed by Noel and myself above, Hamas have stated four basic (and just) principles for a two state solution.

  85. They are NOT an oppressed people.

  86. They are an oppressed people

    There were plenty of them who were dispossessed in 1948 by the Israelis. There is no sense in pretending that this never happened. Many Israelis will frankly discuss this.

    And they are oppressed by the government that they voted in too.

  87. With all due respect Pat that comment is about as correct as your Gaza / Philly comparison.

  88. //You win the cigar. //

    It can’t be worth much.

    The Israeli blockade of Gaza is not a reaction to Hamas rockets, as you believe. The blockade was imposed once Hamas took power in Gaza. AFAIK, Hamas didn’t fire rockets into Israel until the following year.

    The blockade had an immediate effect on life in Gaza. Eeconomic activity fell by more than half, exports practically ceased completely. The food blockade led to malnutrition and the resultant rage and desperation among the young expecially.

    Obviously Hamas is a problem and a bad idea for the people there, but Israel is an even bigger problem and bears most responsibility for the situation there. When people are enclosed in an open-air prison, deprived of food and the chance of employment and the normal freedoms that make life worth living everywhere else in the world, then they become desperate and determined to resist at any cost, even if it costs their lives.

    Look, the Jewish people in the Warsaw ghetto even took on the Nazi war machine, knowing it meant ineviable death. In such situations, dying in resistance is often preferable to living in degradation.

  89. No human solution to this one boys

  90. The Israeli blockade of Gaza is not a reaction to Hamas rockets, as you believe. The blockade was imposed once Hamas took power in Gaza. AFAIK, Hamas didn’t fire rockets into Israel until the following year.

    Correct Noel, the blockade began at least ten years before Hamas came to power:

    Isolating Gaza from the rest of the world, including separating it from the West Bank, is part of a longstanding Israeli policy. The implementation began in the 1990s, with the imposition of a closure on all the Occupied Territories and the introduction of the requirement for every Palestinian from these territories – with the exception of areas annexed to Israel – to request a personal permit to enter Israel, even if only for the purpose of travel between the West Bank and the Gaza Strip or abroad. Over the years, Israel has made it increasingly difficult to obtain these permits.

    After the second intifada broke out, Israel tightened the restrictions on Palestinian travel, imposing serious restrictions on travel to and from the Gaza Strip, and cutting it off from the West Bank almost completely. Entry of Gaza residents into Israel for the purpose of family visits or reunification with a spouse was prohibited. Visits by Palestinian citizens of Israel and residents of East Jerusalem to relatives in Gaza were reduced to a minimum. In addition, Israel severely restricted the ability of the entire population of Gaza to travel abroad, with many prohibited from doing so altogether. Import and export were restricted and often halted. Israel also banned most Gaza residents from working inside Israel, taking away the source of income of tens of thousands. The restrictions Israel imposed on the movement of goods and workers caused a deep recession in Gaza, impaired its residents’ earning capacity and caused a sharp decline in living conditions.

    In the summer of 2007, after Hamas took over the Gaza Strip, Israel used its control over the crossings to put Gaza under a blockade, turning almost two million people into prisoners inside the Gaza Strip, effecting an economic collapse and propelling Gaza residents into dependency on international aid.

    The full article is a pretty harrowing read:

    https://www.btselem.org/gaza_strip

  91. Let’s just start by saying that there isn’t a border… Israel has never declared its borders… So there is no border.

    Number two: there were no ‘clashes’ between Palestinians and Israelis, because there’s a buffer zone. So Palestinians who are gathering in order to protest their dispossession and removal (they’re demanding their right to return as refugees) are basically not confronted by any Israeli civilians – not posing harm to any Israeli civilians, to any military installations, or to any Israeli soldiers. So there are no ‘clashes’. This was the lethal use of force against non-violent protesters who did not pose a threat to Israel.

    Number three: this isn’t just about the embassy move. Palestinians have been protesting for 70 years demanding their right to return and their right to return.

  92. from the head animal

    Yahya Sinwar, leader of Hamas in Gaza said the aim of the protests were to attack the Jewish population who live less than a mile away from the border: ‘We will take down the border and we will tear out their hearts from their bodies.’

    Hamas Official, Salah al-Bardawi, admitted 50 of those killed where members of Hamas while Islamic Jihad published a statement saying a further three of those killed belonged in their ranks.

  93. Yahya Sinwar, leader of Hamas in Gaza said the aim of the protests were to attack the Jewish population who live less than a mile away from the border: ‘We will take down the border and we will tear out their hearts from their bodies.’

    That’s only in his dreams, and perfectly okay, as long as it’s not actually him who is doing the attacking.

    What they are doing in reality, is committing suicide.

  94. yup

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