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Make’s sense, and it’s working

By Patrick Van Roy On June 9th, 2018

102 Responses to “Make’s sense, and it’s working”

  1. What’s working ?

  2. Everything’s working.

    GDP growth is floating between 3-5% growth already, there are 5 major pipelines being built across the country, in 5 different regions as drilling comes back on line. This oil and gas boom is larger than the nations first one. Over 20 major corporations are pouring a hundred Billion dollars of investment into industrial development and distribution.

    Unemployment is at 40yr lows, and the international rules are being rewritten as to not automatically f**k the US.

    The other Nations of the world can whine all they want this a game they can’t win, we can out power each of the G6. While you kvetch look at the Japs they are negotiating… and like it or not each of the other nations will negotiate eventually on our terms. Trumps not going to budge.

    Your leaders will flinch long before he does, he has isolated each nation into an individual and we have the leverage.

    But the fight is stupid anyway, the better the US does the better it is for all of the G6 in the long run. They are just not used to an even field and it scares them, but we’ll all be better off….. it’s a funny thing… capitalism works… whoda thunk it!

  3. did you listen to the speech Colm? What do you think of his points. He makes the US’s case quite well and quite plainly.

    Which points is he wrong on?

    I put the question to all of you especially the Never Trumper NYrs. Tell me what point’s in the argument that he places right here for the whiney 6 is he wrong about or he isn’t going to carry through on?

  4. Correct me if I am wrong Patrick but I read that the main reason for EU tariffs on the US is to do with US govt. subsidies or other financial support for certain trades. In the EU it is illegal for governments to subsidise or give state aid to businesses to help lower prices under single market rules and that is what enables the tariff free trade to apply throughout the EU. Perhaps its time for all the great economies, the US, the EU Japan, China etc. to all follow the same rules – no subsidies, no state support, no tariffs. Genuine free and fair trade.

  5. No new rules we don’t care how you run your business in your country and it’s none of your business how we run them in ours…..

    You will have finished products in some areas cheaper than us and we will have some cheaper than you, but neither of us shall put any special taxes, tariffs, or regulations on them to change it and we won’t on yours…. that’s called free enterprise.

  6. Patrick

    That can only apply if governments don’t interfere. Of course it is our business if your govt. artificially subsidises a particular trade to make it artificially more competitive and the same is true in reverse. All Sovereign States who want free trade with others have to abide by the same rules and that applies to internal govt. policies too. If you want fair cross border trade there is no such thing as “none of your business”

  7. Once again Trump claims Canada has a tariff of 270% on dairy products but does not mention that the US subsidizes its dairy industry $22billion and Canada has no subsidies to its dairy industry. This is just one of the lies Trump uses to justify his stupid trade aggression.

    He gave this speech before cutting out of the G7 early which was an insult. He was going to Singapore to get ready for a meeting that does not take place until next Tuesday, a meeting he said he did not need to prepare for.

    His parting shot was to tweet that his host was dishonest and weak.

    Trump is an embarrassment to the US and a menace to world trade.

  8. The US gives billions in subsidies to corn wheat beef and other production and those subsidies benefit farmers / agribusiness in Trumper states. And of course US sugar is also protected by tariffs, which benefit growers in Florida and Louisiana

    Don’t count on the local Trumpers to know about any of this or to ever mention any of it

    Yes Canada is satanic, our worst enemy, not pure like the USA

    https://www.thoughtco.com/us-farm-subsidies-3325162

  9. Two graphs that explain trump and his minions like pat

    https://imgur.com/a/NN7r3
    https://imgur.com/a/wQbn1

    Hail Satan

  10. EP

    Brilliant.

  11. The US does seem to have double standards when it comes to subsidising Industries.
    For years they subsidised Boeing, and then went apoplectic when the EU did the same with Airbus.

  12. Trump’s undisciplined, undiplomatic insults directed toward Mr Trudeau are a disgrace

    Trudeau and the allies should not reward such conduct

  13. “You will have finished products in some areas cheaper than us and we will have some cheaper than you, but neither of us shall put any special taxes, tariffs, or regulations on them to change it and we won’t on yours…. that’s called free enterprise.”

    Except there are currently regulations that prevent, for example, American chicken from being sold in the European Union. The reason behind it is that American farmers don’t meet the regulatory standards that European farmers have to meet. Because American farmers don’t have to meet the same regulatory standards their cost of production is much lower. So a no taxes, tariffs, or regulation policy would allow American farmers to produce substandard product and a discount to their European counterparts. Which would be an unfair trading practice.

  14. Did Russia open up our borders to MS13?

    Did Russia ship in tens of thousands of Syrian Refugees?

    Did Russia triple our National Debt in 8 years?

    Did Russia fund and arm ISIS in Syria?

    NO! That was The Democrats! A far bigger threat to our republic than Russia will ever be

  15. The national debt didn’t triple under Obama. It didn’t even double.

    Deficit spending went up under Obama, a correct policy that got the economy going again .

    http://www.polidiotic.com/by-the-numbers/us-national-debt-by-year/

    Obama and Democrats did not fund any ISIS. That is 100% Alex Jones talk, which Trump picked up on the campaign trail.

  16. he created more debt than every other President before him combined Phantom.

    He was the biggest disaster we ever elected.

  17. The deficit spending in that context was good policy

    Without it, the world economy could have crashed

  18. that’s one view.

    Another is it’s better to let things fail.

  19. NO! That was The Democrats! A far bigger threat to our democracy than Russia will ever be

    So the US is a democracy after all then?

  20. The democrats are a Party not the system…… lol

  21. What does our democracy refer to and why are a political party supposedly a threat to it?

  22. where does it say democracy….. 😉

    The Democrat party is a threat to our Republic because they want to change it into a socialist state controlled by the government.

  23. ???

    A far bigger threat to our democracy than Russia will ever be

  24. I corrected my statement to fit into your ocd….. 🙂

  25. Glad that you’re now recognising reality even if your memory isn’t all it should be 🙂

  26. The US is NOT a Democracy, nothing any of you say or any mental lapse of mine will change that.

  27. Mental lapse?

    Never

  28. The US is of course a democracy, as your Freudian slip / lapse of memory shows.

    Please read this speech by one of your political heroes and then explain to me how it’s not:

    http://www.iri.org/who-we-are/promoting-democracy-and-peace-president-ronald-reagan-speech-british-parliament-june-8

  29. All the leaders in American history were wrong because our guy says so

  30. even Reagan can be wrong, but he was talking down to the intelligence of the audience.

    We are a Republic.

  31. Reagan was often wrong as when he armed the Contra terrorists and the Afghan Islamic s

    And blew up the debt

    He was very flawed, except as respects Russia

  32. Okay Pat – … then explain to me how it’s not

    So, explain to me how the US isn’t a democracy

  33. revisionist history

  34. A Democracy is majority rule….

    Who got the majority of the votes?

    Hillary Clinton.

    Is she President?

    NO

    Case closed.

  35. Correct history

    It was Carter and Reagan who funded and armed the Islamic fighters

  36. https://www.juancole.com/images-ext/2008/02/mccains-holiday-from-history-in-7.jpg

  37. A Democracy is majority rule….

    Eh? have you ever heard of Proportional Representation?

    How is Congress formed, how is the Electoral College formed?

    I’m afraid your simplistic low information conclusions mean that the case is very far from closed.

  38. Proportional Representation

    that’s a republic……

    republic definition. A form of government in which power is explicitly vested in the people, who in turn exercise their power through elected representatives. Today, the terms republic and democracy are virtually interchangeable, but historically the two differed.

    the reason people like you mistake the two for one is lack of education.

  39. PR is an electoral system used in democratic elections.

    How is Congress formed, how is the Electoral College formed?

    Are you saying that the Euro Republics aren’t democracies?

  40. A form of government in which power is explicitly vested in the people, who in turn exercise their power through elected representatives. Today, the terms republic and democracy are virtually interchangeable, but historically the two differed.

    Jesus Christ, I’m not surprised you didn’t provide a link:

    https://quizlet.com/94976143/government-flash-cards/

    See that ‘power is explicitly vested in the people, who in turn exercise their power through elected representatives’?

    Guess what that is.

  41. Paul the U.S. no matter what you think is a Republic.

    A Democracy is mob majority rule…. we vote for representatives we don’t vote on issues or laws.

    Your inability to differentiate between a Republic and a Democracy is your failing.

    I enjoy discussing things with you, but there are many things that you truly don’t grasp, this is one of them. If you want to insist you are correct please go right ahead. It’s just another piece on the list of things that you lack understanding on, and are unwilling to be educated about.

  42. Ok while it is possible for a Republic to be non-democratic, in that technically a Republic is any state where government is considered public property and not the personal private property of an individual (a king in most cases). So as long as government is not inherited or gifted to the successor by the incumbent leader then it is likely speaking a Republic.

    A democracy is one where the people rule, though often that can be through a variety of ways.

    The two are not mutually exclusive, nor are they necessarily the same. A state can be both democratic and a republic, and can be democratic and not a republic, or a republic but not democratic.

    If the US is being discussed the most accurate way to describe is as a Psephocracy, a Representative Democratic Republic. ‘Pseph’ coming from the Greek word psephos, meaning pebble, which was how Athenian citizens would vote (they would all have a black pebble and a white pebble and would cast their vote by putting one of them in a jar).

    “A Democracy is majority rule….”

    That is not true. A democracy is the rule of the people. Not ncessarily the rule of a majority of the people. That is why democratic governments are largely put into two different groups (consensus democracies and majoritarian democracies). The goal of a majoritarian democracy is to get the support of 50%+1, while the goal of a consensus democracy is to try and get the support of as many people as possible, making the government more inclusive of the people as a whole, rather than the tyranny of the majority.

    “Who got the majority of the votes?

    Hillary Clinton”

    Hillary Clinton got a plurality of votes, she didn’t get a majority.

  43. Clinton: 65,844,610 (48.2%)

    Trump: 62,979,636 (46.1%)
    Others: 7,804,213 (5.7%)

    a plurality of votes…… you people like to dance with words, but it’s just that a Dance.

    The U.S. is a Republic.

  44. Question to the Architect…..

    “Well, Doctor, what have we got—a Republic or a Monarchy?” “A Republic, if you can keep it.”

    The Pledge

    “I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.”

  45. No one is denying that the US is a Republic. We are denying the idea that a country cannot be both a Republic and a Democracy. The US is both.

    “you people like to dance with words, but it’s just that a Dance.”

    Words mean things. And two different words more often than not have different meanings than each other. So it is not just a semantic exercise to say that Hillary Clinton didn’t get a majority. It is simply the facts.

  46. He doesn’t know what words mean

  47. He doesn’t know what words mean

  48. stutter much…..

  49. Actually, again with the accurate terms and all, what Phantom just exhibited was Palilalia. The unnecessary repeating of phrases. A stutterer would have said “He d…d…doesn’t know what words mean”.

  50. I was perfect, it was the technology that failed us

  51. no he’s a stutterer…..

    and neither of you know or understand the US Government System and Structure.

  52. Paul the U.S. no matter what you think is a Republic.

    I’m not disputing that it is a Republic. What I am insisting is that it’s also a democracy

    A Democracy is mob majority rule…. we vote for representatives we don’t vote on issues or laws.

    Correct, it’s called representative / participatory democracy. You should learn the difference between it and direct democracy.

    If you want to insist you are correct please go right ahead.

    Okay, I insist that Seamus, Phantom, anyone above who has commented on the issue with the exception of you, countless US Presidents, your Freudian slip above, the credible English speaking media, political scientists, politics graduates, political commentators, academics, anyone who knows what they’re talking about and I are correct and you are incorrect on the claim that the US is not a democracy.

    With all due respect Pat, you should understand that things like political science and etymology mean things and that definitions are fairly definitive.

  53. Yes they are the United States of America is a Republic.

    It was setup and designed that way by it’s founders. It is described that way in the Federalist Papers. It is described as such by the men who created the system, it is described and defined as such by my Professors at the University of Pennsylvania.

    One of my theses for my degree was on the Constitution and it’s writing.

    A Democracy is Mob Rule over the years with the dumbing down of the Western Nations populace Republics have been labeled “Democracy’s” Communism has been sold as “Socialism, Liberalism and Progressivism”.

    Half the things you people support come from Marx and Mao not Montesquieu, Locke, Franklin, Addams, or Jefferson.

    Everyone of you have majore holes in your education and knowledge.

    You may have aced Grammar, Spelling and Punctuation, but you all miserably failed History.

  54. For example also the majority of you are also atheists or non believers in God. God had a direct hand in the Founding of the Nation, everything about this nation is based on the Laws of and the influence of God and his Morality.

    You can’t bring yourself to accept that there is a God you can’t understand half the influence in the founding of my country.

  55. a little info….. on the later

    • The Constitution of the United States was adopted only after the Bill of Rights consisting of the first ten amendments was passed. The First Amendment reads as follows:

    “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

    • For the first 355 years (1607 – 1962), American children prayed and read the Bible in our public schools.

    • At George Washington’s first inauguration on April 30, 1789, with his right hand on the Bible, after taking the oath, he added his own words: “So help me God.” He then lowered his head and kissed the Bible.

    • The following words were included in the first inaugural address of President George Washington:

    “We ought to be no less persuaded that the propitious smiles of Heaven can never be expected on a nation that disregards the eternal rules of order and right, which Heaven as ordained.”

    • At the Thanksgiving Proclamation on October 3, 1789, President George Washington stated:

    “It is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the Providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and humbly to implore His protection and favor.”

    “Oh, eternal and everlasting God, direct my thoughts, words and work. Wash away my sins in the immaculate blood of the Lamb and purge my heart by Thy Holy Spirit. Daily, frame me more and more in the likeness of Thy son, Jesus Christ, that living in Thy fear, and dying in Thy favor, I may in thy appointed time obtain the resurrection of the justified unto eternal life. Bless, 0 Lord, the whole race of mankind and let the world be filled with the knowledge of Thee and Thy Son, Jesus Christ.”

    • The Liberty Bell commissioned in 1752, a symbol of American Independence, was cast with the words: “Proclaim LIBERTY Throughout all the Land unto all the inhabitants Thereof”. This is a Biblical statement from the Book of Leviticus (25:10). In 1776 the bell was rung to mark the public reading of the Declaration of Independence. Its symbol has been used on American coins and stamps for more than 200 years.

    • The following words of Thomas Jefferson, the third President of the United States, are inscribed on the Jefferson Memorial located in Washington D.C.:

    “I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the minds of man.”

    “We hold these truths to be self-evident: That all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.”

    “God who gave us life gave us liberty. Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are the gift of God? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, that His justice cannot sleep forever. Commerce between master and slave is despotism. Nothing is more certainly written in the book of fate than that these people are to be free.”

    • The Declaration of Independence includes four references to God (1) as Lawmaker (the laws of nature and nature’s God); (2) as Creator (endowed by their Creator); (3) a Supreme Judge (the Supreme Judge of the world); and (4) as Protector (the protection of Devine Providence).

    • John Jay, the first Chief Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court:

    “Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is their duty, as well as privilege and interest, of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers.

    The Bible is the best of all books, for it is the word of God and teaches us the way to be happy in this world and in the next. Continue therefore to read it and to regulate your life by its precepts.”

    • The two primary drafters of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, Thomas Jefferson and James Madison, who were also our third and fourth Presidents, attended church services in the Capitol of the United States while they were president.

    • During the term of our third president, Thomas Jefferson, church services were held in the Supreme Court building and the Treasury building.

    • James Madison, our fourth President and the “father of the Constitution” said:

    We have staked the whole future of out new nation, not upon the power of government; far from it. We have staked the future of our Constitution upon the capacity of each of ourselves to govern ourselves according to the moral principles of the Ten Commandments.”

    • The following words are inscribed on the Washington Monument:

    “It is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God and to obey His will.”

    • Congress passed this resolution in 1782:
    “The Congress of the United States recommends and approves the Holy Bible for use in all schools.”

    • During the Civil War, President Abraham Lincoln in the Gettysburg Address stated:

    “We here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain; that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom; and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.”

    • Founding father Benjamin Rush said:

    “The only foundation for a useful education in a republic is to be laid in religion. Without this there can be no virtue, and without virtue there can be no liberty, and liberty is the object of life of all republican governments.”

    • Founding father John Adams said:

    “Our constitution was made for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”

    “The highest glory of the American Revolution was this: it connected, in one indissoluble bond, the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity.”

    • In 1862, during the American Civil War, Abraham Lincoln, our 16th President, said:

    “If I had my way, this war would never have commenced. If I had been allowed my way, this war would have been ended before this. But we find it still continues; and we must believe that He permits it for some wise purpose of His own, mysterious and unknown to us; and through our limited understanding, we may not be able to comprehend it, yet we cannot but believe, that He who made the world still governs it.”

    • Each session of the Continental Congress, starting in 1774, and each session of the Constitutional Convention in 1787 started with an opening prayer.

    • When the Supreme Court of the United States is in session, the following words are used to open each session:

    “All persons having business before the Honorable, the Supreme Court of the United States, are admonished to draw near and give their attention, for the Court is now sitting. God save the United States and this Honorable Court.”

    • As you walk up the steps to the United States Supreme Court, near the top of the building is a row of famous lawgivers facing Moses who is in the center holding the Ten Commandments. As you enter the Supreme Court courtroom, the two large oak doors have the Ten Commandments engraved on each door. As you take a seat in the courtroom, you see a display of the Ten Commandments above where the Supreme Court justices sit.

    • When the Thirteen Colonies declared independence from England, the Continental Congress voted to enlist chaplains to serve with the military and to be paid at the same compensation level as majors.
    • Abraham Lincoln’s second inaugural address included four verses from the Bible and fourteen references to God. His speech was carved into one of the walls of the Lincoln Memorial in 1920.

    • At the very top on the eastern side of the Washington Monument, facing the sun, is inscribed the Latin words “Laus Deo” meaning “Praise be to God.” In 1884, when the monument was completed, it was the tallest structure in the world. At that time, the words could only be seen by God looking down.

    • In 1884, inside the cornerstone of the Washington Monument was placed a copy of the Declaration of Independence, a copy of the United States Constitution, and the Bible.

    • The marching song of the Union Army (United States Army) during the Civil War was the Battle Hymn of the Republic. It was written in 1861. The original song includes the following words:

    “I have read the fiery gospel writ in burnished rows of steel:
    As ye deal with my contemnors, so with you my grace shall deal;
    Let the Hero, born of woman, crush the serpent with his heel,
    Since God is marching on.

    In the beauty of the lilies Christ was born across the sea,
    With a glory in His bosom that transfigures you and me.
    As He died to make me holy, let us live to make men free,
    While God is marching on.”

    • Upon receiving the gift of a Bible from a group of former slaves, President Abraham Lincoln gave these words of thanks:

    “In regard to this great book, I have but to say, it is the best gift God has given to men. All the good Savior gave to the world was communicated through this book. But for it we could not know right from wrong. All things most desirable for man’s welfare, here and hereafter, are to be found portrayed in it. To you I return my most sincere thanks for the elegant company of the great Book of God which you present.”

    • United States Supreme Court decision in Church of the Holy Trinity v. United States, 1892:

    “Our laws and our institutions must necessarily be based upon and embody the teachings of the Redeemer of mankind. It is impossible that it should be otherwise; and in this sense and to this extent our civilization and our institutions are emphatically Christian.. this is a Christian nation.”

    • As the Allied Soldiers and Marines were about to land on the beaches of Normandy, France in 1944, General Dwight D. Eisenhower declared:

    “You are about to embark upon the Great Crusade, toward which we have striven these many months. The eyes of the world are upon you. The prayers of liberty loving people everywhere march with you.”

    • Upon the Allies’ successful invasion of Normandy, France in 1944, President Franklin D. Roosevelt led the American people in prayer in a nationwide radio address:

    “Almighty God, our sons, pride of our nation, this day have set upon a mighty endeavor, a struggle to preserve our republic, our religion, and our civilizations, and to set free a suffering humanity.”

    “Many people have urged that I call the nation into a single day of special prayer. But because the road is long and the desire is great, I ask that our people devote themselves in a continuance of prayer. As we rise to each new day, and again when each day is spent, let words of prayer be on our lips, invoking Thy help to our efforts.”

    “And, O Lord, give us faith. Give us faith in Thee; faith in our sons, faith in each other; faith in our united crusade. Let not the keenness of our spirit ever be dulled. Let not the impacts of temporary events, of temporal matters of but a fleeting moment, let not these deter us in our conquerable purpose. Thy will be done, Almighty God. Amen.”

    • A chapel is located within the United States Capitol Building. In the chapel is a large stained glass window depicting our first President, George Washington, kneeling in prayer, under the inscription: “This Nation Under God.” The words of President Washington’s prayer is inscribed in the window: “Preserve me, God, for in thee do I put my trust.”

    • In the United States House of Representatives, above the central gallery door, is a marble statue of Moses the lawgiver.

    • A statue of Father Junipero Serra, holding a cross, is located at the United States Capitol.

    • A statue of Mormon leader, Brigham Young, is located at the United States Capitol.

    • A statue of Father James Marquette, a French Jesuit missionary, is located at the United States Capitol. A crucifix is located prominently in his belt.

    • A statue of Saint Damien, the Apostle of Lepers, is located at the United States Capitol.

    • The United States Capitol contains a large painting named “The Baptism of Pocahontas.”
    • The United States Capitol contains a large painting named “The Embarkation of the Pilgrims.” The Pilgrims are holding a large Bible and are praying.

    • A copy of the Gutenberg Bible is maintained on display in The Great Hall at the Library of Congress.

    • A statue of Moses the lawgiver is located inside the Supreme Court of the United States. In addition, there is a statue of Confucius, Moses, and Solon sitting together at the United States Supreme Court.

    • The tradition of displaying a Christmas Tree in the White House started in 1889. Since that date, every administration has displayed a Christmas tree.

    • The following words are inscribed on the walls of the Library of Congress:

    The heavens declare the Glory of God, and the firmament showeth His handiwork.”

    (Psalm 19:1)

    “What doth the Lord require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God.”

    (Micah 6:8)

    All 50 States Acknowledge God…… read more

    http://aboutthegop.com/god_and_american_history

  56. The US is a Republic Pat, that is without a doubt.

    It’s also a representative / particapatory democracy where Congress are elected by a democratic electoral system while the political parties of each state use their democratic mandate to select the Electoral College who in turn democratically vote for the POTUS.

    You are simply incorrect as you Freudian slip above shows.

  57. I scoff at all of you…..

    You know nothing about America and the Insurance salesman is the worst commentator on his own country. He understands none of it and is totally isolated in a bubble where he shares NOTHING in common with the average American.

    I am a Constitutionalist American I know my nation better than anyone here it’s good and bad. I gladly a freely represent both sides of it’s coin.

    You are all free to believe that which you choose… the misguided are always with us. I on the other hand Know and understand THE FACTS….. and that’s where everyone of fall short.

    Am I in the minority…? Yes

    Does that change the fact that I am the only one right here….? NO

    Do you know what a 3%’r is…?

    It’s important in all this…. figure it out.

  58. The US is a Republic and also a democracy FACT

    With all due respect Pat I and everyone else commenting on the issue here are correct and you are incorrect and you saying differently doesn’t change facts.

  59. wrong

  60. Congress are elected by a democratic electoral system while the political parties of each state use their democratic mandate to select the Electoral College who in turn democratically vote for the POTUS.

    Pat, they are undoubtedly the features of a representative democracy.

    Now, please explain how the US is a Republic but NOT a democracy?

  61. It’s not a Democracy it’s a Republic.

    You’re quoting pieces of things of which you have no understanding.

    The United States Electoral College is the mechanism established by the United States Constitution for the election of the president and vice president of the United States by small groups of appointed representatives, electors, from each state and the District of Columbia. The Constitution specifies that each state legislature individually determines its own process for appointing electors. In practice, all state legislatures use popular voting to choose a slate of electors who are pledged to vote for a particular party’s candidate. Thus, today the president and vice president are effectively chosen through indirect election by the citizens.

    It was created to ensure that each state has a role in selecting the President. In casting a vote for President, a Pennsylvania voter is actually voting for a candidate’s slate of Presidential electors. The winning candidate’s electors represent Pennsylvania at the meeting of the state’s Electoral College in December where the electors cast their votes for President and Vice President. In a presidential election, the President of the United States is elected by the Electoral College, not the popular vote. However, each vote for President helps decide which candidate’s electors are appointed to attend the Electoral College where they vote for President and Vice President.

    Each state gets the same number of electoral votes as it has members of Congress. There is a total of 538 votes in the Electoral College and a candidate must win a simple majority (270) of those votes to win the election. Pennsylvania has 20 electoral votes. Most states have a winner-take-all system, meaning that all of the state’s electoral votes are pledged to the person who won the state’s popular vote.

    That system above removes democracy from the equation, and does so with democracy….. and state party control. Just because a vote is involved does not make something a democracy.

    We use a “democracy” to remove democracy from the system, we choose to elect representatives to meet on a more balanced field to choose those that can hold high office. The people that can run for these positions are picked by the state parties not the people.

    The only real democratically elected positions in government is supposed to be the house of representatives. The peoples house. The Senators were actually supposed to be appointed by the State Houses NOT election. (that’s an amendment that should have never passed)

    A Republic like ours is a nation that by vote has put the power in a few peoples hands to make the functional decisions. Nothing more. They represent the citizen in the Republic.

    You want to call that a democracy but is not. A Democracy means that all the decisions are voted on or at least the majority of them by the CITIZENS. There is not a single Democracy on the planet. Never has been.

    That’s why the question that was asked was what have you given us a Republic or a Monarchy. Those are the only two systems of government that exist, and ours is the best designed Republic man has yet to achieve.

    Calling our system, your system, any system a Democracy only reveals that you are a novice in how a political system actually functions and works. Not the fan fare and bullshit, but the actual act of governing.

    Our system was a republic designed not to interfere with the business of the citizens. It is due to the lack of understanding of how things are designed to work that things have become such a mess.

    It is a reestablishing of the rules of the Republic that people like me are dedicated to. The reestablishment of the rule of Law.

    There is a reason I worked the polls for over 30yrs, a reason I serve my community, a reason I would have ran for Judge if I hadn’t gotten sick.

    We have a Duty to protect the citizenry by upholding justice. And our Republic was designed for that reason.

    All men are created equal, but it is the Law and the system that either protects that or destroys it.

    A Democracy is just like Communism it destroys Justice with Mob rule….

    So no my nation is not a democracy that is a fairy tale and cake for the masses.

  62. Why did you go for a lengthy cut and paste when you could have just reposted my 7.53?

    Paul McMahon, on June 12th, 2018 at 7:53 PM Said:

    The US is a Republic Pat, that is without a doubt.

    It’s also a representative / particapatory democracy where Congress are elected by a democratic electoral system while the political parties of each state use their democratic mandate to select the Electoral College who in turn democratically vote for the POTUS.

    Nothing more needs to be said as you seem to have destroyed your own argument.

    It was created to ensure that each state has a role in selecting the President […]

    Each state gets the same number of electoral votes as it has members of Congress

    We choose to elect representatives to meet on a more balanced field to choose those that can hold high office. The people that can run for these positions are picked by the state parties not the people.

    Calling our system, your system, any system a Democracy only reveals that you are a novice in how a political system actually functions and works. Not the fan fare and bullshit, but the actual act of governing.

    What a bizarre comment. You seem to be conflating the system of being elected to the Government and governing with the actual model of Government.

    As you claim we have only a Monarchy or democracy to choose from what form of government do states like the Vatican and Andorra etc have?

  63. God: The United States is a Democracy.

    Patrick : God , you are wrong. It is a Republic not a Democracy.

    God: With respect Patrick, I am God. I cannot be wrong.

    Patrick: You may have created the USA God but let me repeat, you are wrong. Sitting in your heaven bubble you know NOTHING about the country you created and our Constitution you passed down to Jefferson on Mount Rushmore.

    God: Eh ? You made that up. I didn’t pass anything down Mount Rushmore.

    Patrick: Yes you did ! My God do I have to teach you everything !!

    God : OK OK I give up you are right, I am wrong.

    God wanders off looking for headache tablets while Patrick eyes up God’s throne 😉

  64. It is a Republic….. the Vatican is based off of the Monarchy System the the Structure of the Church is the structure of a Monarchy.

    Andorra up until 93 was a Monarchy….. other than that who cares

    Republic or Monarchy….. those are the only two systems….. period.

    Representative government or direct rule sorry folks that’s all she wrote. Representative governments are Republics all others are based on a Monarchy. A Single Head of State that holds power through strength or birthright.

    Call yourself a Democracy if you chose, but you are wrong.

    democracy is used as a synonym for these things, but it is not these things…

    representative government · elective government · constitutional government · popular government · self-government · government by the people · autonomy · republic · commonwealth.

    I know this is beyond your grasp as you have proven all day long but if you live in a society that is described in the list above what you live in may be called a democracy but it is not the word is used simply as slang for a multitude of different styles of a Republic.

  65. Colm I’ve had arguments with God…… haven’t you?

  66. A good politician under democracy is quite as unthinkable as an honest burglar.

    Mencken

  67. lol

  68. The US is absolutely a Republic – it’s also a democracy.

    The Vatican isn’t Monarchical as the Pope is elected as opposed to being ordained by birth

    You are incorrect.

  69. Patrick

    I often think I am having arguments with God. Then I realise I am looking at a mirror 😉

  70. Colm.

    Is this the God you see?.

    https://goo.gl/images/dKxSa7

    😀

  71. In the truest sense the Vatican is a Republic. There is no automatic succession. The Pope’s legal heir doesn’t inherit. The Pope doesn’t get to pick his successor. He may get to pick the people who pick his successor but he doesn’t get to pick his successor directly. Thus it is a Republic.

    “You want to call that a democracy but is not. A Democracy means that all the decisions are voted on or at least the majority of them by the CITIZENS. There is not a single Democracy on the planet. Never has been.”

    That would be a direct democracy. A democracy is where the people hold the ultimate power of decision. In most cases they exercise that through their elected representatives.

    You need to get it through your head that being a democracy and being a republic are not mutually exclusive ideas.

    As I said the Vatican is a Republic. So is the United States. Are they the same? No because the people hold the power to elect their leaders in the United States, which they do not hold in the Vatican. So one, the Vatican, is a non-democratic Republic, the other, the United States, is a democratic Republic.

  72. Giving Patrick the benefit of the doubt, I decided to look into this and see if he could be right. Reliable sources repeatedly informed me that the US is both a democracy and a republic. This information is pretty easy to find but it appears that Pat just chooses to ignore it because he’s belligerent and argumentative. (And never wrong.)

    Here’s what the Washington Post had to say on the subject:

    Is the United States of America a republic or a democracy?

    I often hear people argue that the United States is a republic, not a democracy. But that’s a false dichotomy. A common definition of “republic” is, to quote the American Heritage Dictionary, “A political order in which the supreme power lies in a body of citizens who are entitled to vote for officers and representatives responsible to them” — we are that. A common definition of “democracy” is, “Government by the people, exercised either directly or through elected representatives” — we are that, too.

    The United States is not a direct democracy, in the sense of a country in which laws (and other government decisions) are made predominantly by majority vote. Some lawmaking is done this way, on the state and local levels, but it’s only a tiny fraction of all lawmaking. But we are a representative democracy, which is a form of democracy.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/05/13/is-the-united-states-of-america-a-republic-or-a-democracy/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.90a91ab4ff4d

  73. Thank you Dave:

    Paul McMahon, on June 12th, 2018 at 7:17 PM Said:

    I’m not disputing that it is a Republic. What I am insisting is that it’s also a democracy

    A Democracy is mob majority rule…. we vote for representatives we don’t vote on issues or laws.

    Correct, it’s called representative / participatory democracy. You should learn the difference between it and direct democracy.

  74. Paul McMahon,

    Thank you Dave:

    No worries Paul, it won’t do any good though. Even when Patrick knows his wrong, he’ll just continue obfuscating and shifting the Goalposts until you’re blue in the face.

    I remember having a discussion with him once, about him claiming a voting choice was binary. He claimed you either voted for one person or the other. I pointed out that it wasn’t binary and that you could not vote for either person (which meant they were actually three choices.) You can guess the kind of nonsense he came out with to avoid admitting that he was in the wrong.

  75. except I’m not wrong

  76. From the same article…..

    I often hear people argue that the United States is a republic, not a democracy. But that’s a false dichotomy. A common definition of “republic” is, to quote the American Heritage Dictionary, “A political order in which the supreme power lies in a body of citizens who are entitled to vote for officers and representatives responsible to them” — we are that.

    Then the author a UCLA Law Professor spends the rest of the article explaining why the definition he gets from the dictionary and says is true IS WRONG…..

    This argument rages on and on…. I’m done.

    You are wrong and I am right end of conversation.

  77. Except you are. The US is both a democracy and a republic. You suggesting that it is not a democracy because it is a republic only proves that you don’t know what either word means.

  78. Except you are wrong… out in a second comment before my first one sent.

  79. In the meantime the Special Prosecutor who has charged Russians with Criminal Acts regarding the Election refuses to allow them Due Process in a court of Law.

    https://lawandcrime.com/opinion/mueller-fearmongers-about-election-interference-to-try-to-hide-evidence-from-defendants-in-russian-trolls-case/

  80. Except you are. The US is both a democracy and a republic.

    Every teacher, every schoolkid, every student of America knows this.

    How can someone who gets so completely confused quarrelsome and sophomoric on such a simple matter be trusted to discuss any other matter?

    BTW how many angels can dance on the head of a pin? Maybe that can be the next ATW debate.

  81. lawandcrime.com

    Another mysterious source appears on these pages, for the first time?

    Another Turkish medical publication?

  82. and Every teacher, every schoolkid, every student of America knows that the Government isn’t supposed to use the IRS, DOJ, FBI and NSA to persecute citizens for having a different political view.

    Except you support it Boris….. your opinions on anything are mute.

  83. LawandCrime.com is the only site for live court video, high-profile criminal trials, crazy crime, celebrity justice, and smart legal analysis. Created by TV’s top legal commentator and attorney, Dan Abrams, Law & Crime brings common sense written and video analysis to the often confusing and always intriguing world of the law. The site’s team of journalists and lawyers provide real-time news updates along with live courtroom coverage of the most fascinating trials and legal stories.

    https://lawandcrime.com/

  84. Patrick

    This argument rages on and on…. I’m done.

    You are wrong and I am right end of conversation.

    Of course it’s the end of the conversation, because you haven’t got a leg to stand on, and you know it. You’re just too stubborn and belligerent to admit you’re wrong, and once again you’ve made yourself look a total fool in front of everybody on ATW.

    There are literally thousands of matches on the internet that prove the US is a democracy and a republic. Search for: ‘list of democratic countries’, and you’ll see hundreds of list featuring the US. To continue with your ridiculous assertion, is pathetic.

    Despite what you might think I don’t dislike you, I actually think your probably a pretty decent guy. But when you engage in ridiculous arguments like this, which you do frequently, you lose all credibility. Which means that when you are correct and you have something important to say people can’t be bothered listening to you anymore.
    You’re going down the same route as Allan, who’s lost all credibility and no one can be bothered reading his posts and links anymore.

  85. Dave no sorry even the article you cite says this debate continues to this day.

    Both sides declare they are right. Both sides say the other is wrong. It wouldn’t be a debate that has continued for over 200yrs if both sides didn’t have a leg to stand on.

    It is a matter of opinion, and an on going argument. Do you think the subject would be written about in WaPo if it was not ongoing. It is not settled, nor will it be anytime soon.

    I’ve insulted no one, I’ve not spewed racist epitaphs, I have engaged with each of you fairly.

    Yet you now call me Allan.

  86. Patrick Van Roy,

    I’ve insulted no one, I’ve not spewed racist epitaphs, I have engaged with each of you fairly.

    Yet you now call me Allan.

    You’re engaging in another one of your other common Tactics now Patrick, and trying to strawman what I’m saying.

    I never said you spewed racist epitaphs, that’s a lie. I said your credibility was being lost in the same way Allan has lost his. I never called you racist and I don’t believe you are a racist. Your views couldn’t be any more different to Allan’s.
    Please don’t misrepresent what I’m saying like this, it’s disrespectful.

  87. No strawman Dave…. Allan is a racist and if you compare someone to him you are calling them a racist.

    As for my credibility….. yeah right according to everyone here I have no credibility, I’ve never had credibility. I’m a Liar….. not that anyone can ever find a single lie I’ve ever told.

    No I make these occasional pointless arguments out of boredom, nothing more. It would be nice to debate real topics, real issues that matter but no one here is interested in that.

    No one is interested in facts. I long ago stopped trying to convince any of you of anything. I put information out here for those that actually are open to hearing information they aren’t getting from other sites especially on that side of the pond.

    The majority of the people that read ATW never comment….. and I don’t blame them.

  88. Patrick Van Roy,

    No strawman Dave…. Allan is a racist and if you compare someone to him you are calling them a racist.

    You really do just come out with a constant stream of utter nonsense and lies, don’t you Patrick. I never compared you to Allan, I said if you continue to post nonsense the way you do people will no longer read your posts in the same way they no longer read Allan’s. That’s not comparing your views to Allan’s in any way.

    not that anyone can ever find a single lie I’ve ever told.

    How about when you lied and said Harri and I threatened to punch each other in the face.

    It would be nice to debate real topics, real issues that matter but no one here is interested in that.

    No. That’s just everybody else debating you Pat. I’ve had some really good debates with Phantom, Harri, Colm, Paul, in fact almost everybody else who post regularly on here. We haven’t always agreed, but the debates are nearly always respectful.
    No one wants to debate you because you’re like a child. You just go off on a sulk when you don’t get your own way, stamping your feet and shouting ‘I’m always right and everybody else is wrong’, like a 2 year old. Ignoring any evidence that’s contrary your opinion. That’s why people don’t like debating you. Except Phantom, who I think actually enjoys it in some sort of perverse way.

  89. Well to bad I don’t fit into your little click….

    Like it or not I am a very large part of this site both on the posts and behind the scenes.

    I have never lied, and I really don’t care anymore to try and sway any of you in any direction. I gave the site a break for awhile, but I’ve decided I have too many years invested here to allow 2 jerks to cause me to stay away.

    I’m here, I’m here to stay, If I act like a child it’s a reflection of how I’m being interacted with, and extreme exhaustion at the stupidity of some of the positions held by some of the people here, but yes I know you are all so perfect, sweet, and kind…..

    Dave I’ve said this to everyone on the site and I’ll repeat it here. If you don’t want to interact with me don’t. If you don’t want me to act like an ass don’t act like one yourself.

    The next 3 years major things are happening in my country. I will be on this site discussing them.

    Other than Patty I am the only Conservative on this site. I will continue to steer this site to reflect Davids and my views.

    David doesn’t engage with you, I will.

    If you don’t like that please leave. If you want to engage please do, but you get what you give.

    My position that the U.S. is a Republic not a Democracy is an argument that has gone on in MY COUNTRY for over 200 years. If we Americans haven’t settled it a pack of foreigners has no standing to decide it…. it ain’t your country. If I choose to be obstinate than that’s what I will be.

    Like it says on my coffee cup “It is what it is”

  90. The US is a democratic Republic.

    That is a fact which no matter of incorrect opinion can change.

    With all due respect Pat, everyone who has commented on this subject is correct and you are incorrect.

  91. Sensible comments follow.

    This was settled from the beginning, and no US president or other major figure AFAIK has been befuddled by it.

    The United States is not a direct democracy, in the sense of a country in which laws (and other government decisions) are made predominantly by majority vote. Some lawmaking is done this way, on the state and local levels, but it’s only a tiny fraction of all lawmaking. But we are a representative democracy, which is a form of democracy.

    And indeed the American form of government has been called a “democracy” by leading American statesmen and legal commentators from the Framing on. It’s true that some Framing-era commentators made arguments that distinguished “democracy” and “republic”; see, for instance, The Federalist (No. 10), though even that first draws the distinction between “pure democracy” and a “republic,” only later just saying “democracy.” But even in that era, “representative democracy” was understood as a form of democracy, alongside “pure democracy”: John Adams used the term “representative democracy” in 1794; so did Noah Webster in 1785; so did St. George Tucker in his 1803 edition of Blackstone; so did Thomas Jefferson in 1815. Tucker’s Blackstone likewise uses “democracy” to describe a representative democracy, even when the qualifier “representative” is omitted.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/05/13/is-the-united-states-of-america-a-republic-or-a-democracy/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.517ec03ab81d

  92. Paul McMahon, on June 13th, 2018 at 6:03 PM Said: Edit Comment
    The US is a democratic Republic.

    That’s 100% correct right Paul….. it’s NOT a Democracy…. it’s a type of Republic.

    Glad you are finally starting grasp facts.

  93. Same article that Dave posted Phantom…. and as I said to him if the question was settled WaPo wouldn’t be writing stories about it…..

  94. Thomas Jefferson referred to the nation as a representative democracy.

    That settles that.

  95. That’s 100% correct right Paul….. it’s NOT a Democracy…. it’s a type of Republic.

    Of course it’s a Republic, as I’ve said many times above. It’s also a democracy hence Democratic Republic.

    You seem to be under the illusion that a democracy and republic are mutually exclusive concepts.

    The US is a democracy FACT and your opinions on what you mistakenly think words mean can’t change that.

  96. Constitutional Republic

  97. From Wiki:

    A Constitutional republic is a republic that operates under a system of separation of powers, where both the chief executive and members of the legislature are elected by the citizens and must govern within an existing written constitution.[1][2][3][4]

    In a constitutional republic, executive and legislative powers are separated by vote into distinct branches;[5] and the judiciary is independent. A state is constitutional if a constitution limits and separates the government’s powers. The United States of America and the French Republic are examples of constitutional republics.

    The difference of the Constitutional Republic with other forms of government is that the executive power must be legitimated by vote,[6] without being able to be appointed by the legislature and has an independent judicial administration, no power can exercise the executive, legislative and judicial powers at the same time, only the Constitutional Republic legitimizes executive power.

  98. Listen everyone, surely you know how Patrick operates by now. He knows it is perfectly logical, correct and accurate to call the USA a Democratic Republic. He doesn’t want to boringly agree with us all though when there is more entertainment to be had arguing the toss ad infinitum 😉

  99. Thank you Patty:

    […] the chief executive and members of the legislature are elected by the citizens and must govern within an existing written constitution

    executive and legislative powers are separated by vote into distinct branches

    that the executive power must be legitimated by vote

    That’ll be that democracy we were speaking about then. Pat seems to think that a democracy and a Republic are mutually exclusive concepts.

    Colm, do you think that there’s anyone here who seriously thinks the Pat believes the US isn’t a democracy?

  100. No one was/is more knowledgeable about all this jazz than my buddy Thomas Jefferson.

    Like global warming, the debate is over.

    Thank you for your service.

  101. You know nothing of Jefferson or any of our founders…. Boris

  102. Colm, on June 13th, 2018 at 10:04 PM Said: Edit Comment
    Listen everyone, surely you know how Patrick operates by now. He knows it is perfectly logical, correct and accurate to call the USA a Democratic Republic. He doesn’t want to boringly agree with us all though when there is more entertainment to be had arguing the toss ad infinitum 😉

    😉
    lol

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