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WOLVES DRESSED AS SHEEP

By ATWadmin On January 19th, 2007

wolfsheep.jpgI was interested to read that the Alan Harper, the Primate elect of the Church of Ireland – (the Anglican community in Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland) – has shown his liberal colours straightaway by calling for the Act of Settlement to be repealed and for the disestablishment of the Church of England. Amusingly, this wise sage has concluded that the foundations of his Church and the constitutional basis of our Monarchy “belongs to its time and we should move on”


I wonder if he feels the same about the teachings of the Bible? I wonder how he views the 39 Article of Faith to which he swears allegiance one moment and then rejects the next?


The Bible warns of us of people such as Harper. I attach the visual cue. He may LOOK like an idiot……


Hat-tip to Slugger O’Toole.

84 Responses to “WOLVES DRESSED AS SHEEP”

  1. Being a genuine Christian is nothing to do with supporting an established church or the constitutional legalities of the line of monarchical succesion. The United States has a much much more robust practising Christian ethos amongst it’s population than the UK without a ‘state’ church or Monarchy.

    You can disagree with him politically about this but his views on this matter cannot be regarded as unchristian.

  2. Colm,

    "You can disagree with him politically about this but his views on this matter cannot be regarded as unchristian."

    While those of David and co can be. For example many interpret Jesus in the NT to be in favour of separation of church and state. Indeed the way the Bible tells it, Christ was a flaming leftie of the worst variety and was in favour of redistribution of wealth. Hell, he even advocated paying your taxes.

    Of course one should never underestimate the might of right wing denial and vigorous biblical interpretation.

  3. David, The Act of Settlement says, inter alia, that members of the Royal family, let’s say Prince William, can marry a person of the Protestant, Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist or Hindu faiths or of no faith, but not a Catholic. And you think a law like this should stay on the statute books ?

  4. I think this is ultimately to the advantage of evangelical soul saving,
    the glorified tea party that is the established church shows clearly its superficial, societal pretensions when it takes these populist stances, although disestablishment is something no bible believer will bat an eyelid at, other issues such as homosexual property intrusion and lady pastors will meet with a similar populist response, that these men would ask to be entrusted with your immortal soul, or, as is more likely in the modern context, be the formative power in your personal morality and in the direction of society, whilst at the same time bending (in America literally) which ever way they are pushed, show clearly that they will obey the crowds quicker than they will obey God, we all know the extensive teachings of bible on these sorts of people, and what their substitutional spiritualism represents, but who in their right mind is going to take such a supple willed bunch of reactionaries seriously ? who is going to deny himself pleasures for the sake of the approval of men with such interchangeable values and no apparent ambition beyond popularity ? As I go home on the bus I pass old church of England buildings that are now flats, rec. centres and even ones sold off for mosques, and they would claim to sit in the house of God ?( "your doing a good job lads but God just cant meet your expenses ?" just look at the secular explanations they give for their decline, they are a modern revised morality group with as little relevance as they have holy ghost fire). The more convoluted the established church becomes in bending the knee to unbiblical trends, the more of their meagre congregation will turn to bible reading groups of substance, the greater apostasy becomes, the more ludicrous it will seem to those with an inkling of Christian passion, the more of them we can get converted to Christ and get saved, so its hip hip hooray for the amateur states men in the Anglican faith, let them pursue all the modernist jibberjaber they want, let them stick a lesbian hedgehog on the speakers table and replace the choir with the ememinem, they can chase after all the worldly approval they want, lets sit outside their gates and pursue every single soul they have.

    plus, I would suggest they want disestablished in Westminster today so they can be established in Rome tomorrow.

  5. What on earth is ‘homosexual property intrusion’?

    I couldn’t care less if a royal can not marry a Catholic. There shouldn’t be royal families in the first place.

  6. juan,

    "let them stick a lesbian hedgehog on the speakers table and replace the choir with the ememinem"

    lmao! A fine outburst.

    "lets sit outside their gates and pursue every single soul they have."

    What would be the purpose of that? Aren’t you already saved? Do you get some kind of a commission? 33% extra eternity if you enlist a friend? Just curious.

  7. Cunningham,
    why should we accept that our head of state be the subject of another dynasty, the point is that the head of state should not be subservient to a Nation which has at times chosen to inflict great harm on our people.

    Frank,
    Jesus advocated submission to the rule of law when it did not conflict with our Kingdoms law, , we should obey the laws of the states as this is their world. Our true citizenship is in heaven and the submission to ceaser was in terms of rejecting the world and giving it wilfully to the worldly, they deserve to reap what they sow as much as anyone. Its not that Jesus was a flaming leftie (this would require a denial of his own existence) but that as guests in this other world we should bring mercy, that is not the redistribution of wealth, its voluntary charity, not to be imposed by a state machine. Indeed the Christian ‘state’ does not exist in scripture, a tad tricky for a supposed leftist ideology, it is entirely individual and the conduct of Christians in contextualised by a surrounding humanity in its natural ‘barter system’ state of existence, a state of existence which will subvert any economic tyranny within about 50 years, by historical precedent, even if they do keep the communist name, (as soon as you outlaw the market the black market will poof out under your nose, it was one of the damage limiting natural reactions to red terror..) the modern revised Christian world may like the comparison, portraying God as some sort of Hippy, it has nothing to do with the teachings of the bible.

  8. now now frank,

    (that was a pathetic attempt to spell m & m (?) on my part)

    well no its not so much for personal gain, (you forget yourself, comrade ;>) but in order to, well, save them from eternal damnation….. its also commanded that your should proclaim as part of your duty in the contract of marriage to Christ…. (his blood bought pardon for your obedience…..)

    Hugh,

    the legal right of someone to demand access to your private business property on the grounds that you must by law accept their life style, even when you cannot is what homosexual property intrusion is, their right on impose themselves on your private concerns and to be allowed to dictate to your transaction and service. I what say the same of raw formula no matter what the dynamic, if some muselman said "this is my shop and I don’t want you here "(it has happened twice)
    I would be a gentleman and leave. you have no right to impose yourself, no matter who you are in someone else’s property, its theirs and you are asking for short shrift for your trimuphalist invasion.

  9. "I what say the same of raw formula no matter "

    pardon,

    "I would say the same of raw formula no matter "

  10. juan,

    "the redistribution of wealth, its voluntary charity, not to be imposed by a state machine."

    Separation of church and state.

    QED.

  11. Why not separate the monarchy from the role of head of state. That would solve the religious aspects of the problem and tony would have a job to go to.

    See 2 problems solved in one!

    But seriously. Do you not think it strange, in this day and age, that so many catholics across the UK should be barred from the position of head of state. They might not even be practicing catholics. Its crazy.

    Put it to you this way, if the Irish had written it into their constitution that the Head of state could only be a catholic, ye would be using it as a stick to beat us with, day in day out.

  12. <Q>if the Irish had written it into their constitution that the Head of state could only be a catholic,</Q>

    There was no need – the dominance was overwhelming.

  13. Colm, <Being a genuine Christian is nothing to do with supporting an established church or the constitutional legalities of the line of monarchical succesion.>

    Being a genuine Christian also involves keeping the 9th commandment. If someone swears allegiance to something and breaks his oath, why should I believe anything he says?

  14. <Q>I couldn’t care less if a royal can not marry a Catholic. </Q>

    A Roman Catholic cannot marry anybody and become head of the Vatican state – how terrible is that ? 😉

  15. frank,

    "Separation of church and state.

    QED. "

    "although disestablishment is something no bible believer will bat an eyelid at"

    "we should obey the laws of the states as this is their world. Our true citizenship is in heaven "

    I had already agreed, stuff state religion.

    kloot,
    that’s right,
    to suggest that someone with no superseding loyalty should be barred from becoming head of state would be crazy, someone with a superseding loyalty is a different thing, it should not be limited to Catholicism, I would stick anyone with in intra or international loyalty on the prohibited list, including europhiles and vegetarians ;>, and in practise catholics have as much access to authority as anyone, the unique mechanism of constitutional monarchy should not be interfered with for the sake of an aesthetic equality when the same equality (Tony Blair is our practical leader) functions in (cough) ‘real terms’. A fail safe mechanism of freedom should not be potentialy suceeded to a foreign authortiy on the grounds of an athestetic egalaterian pleasantry. If people elect a Catholic PM, good for them. Besides isn’t Ireland a "Catholic nation for a Catholic people?" – it didn’t have to be written down….

  16. Right on mad,

    did you know only catholics can be pope ?

    wheres the equlity here ?

  17. >>>A Roman Catholic cannot marry anybody and become head of the Vatican state – how terrible is that ? ;)<<<

    Tragic, especially for all those ladies who find Joseph Ratzinger to be quite the beau.

  18. Well Hugh, there are rumours 😉
    ( I know because I started most of them LOL )

  19. So David – is the ATW position "Come back Eames, all is forgiven"? 😉

  20. Monarchy and religion, a lethal combination. Discuss.

    Oh sorry, you ARE discussing it :O)

  21. >>There was no need – the dominance was overwhelming.<<

    Of the 8 presidents of Ireland, 2 were Anglican. Indeed our first president was.

    Anyone can contest the role. No one gives a fiddlers what their religion is.

    But go on though, answer the question, would you or would you not use it as a stick against us.

    >>Besides isn’t Ireland a "Catholic nation for a Catholic people?" -<<

    It was up till the 60’s, but then them UCD students took over with crazy liberal ideas. More people had access to education and travel, and for a lot of people this opened their eyes to the failings of organised religion.

    Catholicism in Ireland since the 80s is 3rd in line behind capitalism and the Gym.

    In fact its true to say that NI is far more hung up on religion then the ROI. I couldnt believe the amount of churches in NI while traveling true it. And they are true believers. The majority of irish were merely sheep at the best of times.

  22. >>did you know only catholics can be pope ?<<
    Who gives a fiddlers about the pope. ( fiddlers is my word today folks)

  23. <Q>Of the 8 presidents of Ireland, 2 were Anglican. Indeed our first president was.</Q>

    how does that disprove my point ? That the religion of the president was irrelevant in the light of the overwhelming dominance of the Bishops ? Even your current PM is under their thumb.

    How many Protestant Taoiseach have there been ?

  24. Juan

    "you have no right to impose yourself, no matter who you are in someone else’s property, its theirs and you are asking for short shrift for your trimuphalist invasion."

    If only the crown had taken the same view back in the 17th century we wouldn’t be in the mess we’re in now…

  25. Mad

    The point is unlike the position of head of state in the UK , the position of head of state in the republic is not legally barred to people purely due to belonging to a specific religous denomination.

  26. <Q>If only the crown had taken the same view back in the 17th century we wouldn’t be in the mess we’re in now…</Q>

    Trite nonsense. I could just as easily say that if only the Vatican had accepted the rights of protestants to opt out from their temporal dominion we wouldn’t be in the mess we are in today.

  27. Colm – so what ? The FS/ROI is and was overwhelmingly RC, under far greater dominance by the RC Church than the British state has been by the Anglican church uring the same period.
    It’s a historical anomaly, no relevance ir reality.
    Whereas Bertie taking orders from All Hallows is a different matter entirely.

  28. And what about the first commandment. Our future king is a notorious mosque-builder, to say the very least.

    But OTOH, as head of the ‘church’, he can make the rules. That’s why the Anglican church was founded in the first place, so the monarch could dump his wife and get his leg over some hottie.

  29. >>The FS/ROI is and was overwhelmingly RC, under far greater dominance by the RC Church than the British state has been by the Anglican church uring the same period.<<

    As you said Mad, ‘Was’ under the influence of the RC. It aint anymore and hasnt been to the same extent since the 70s.

    The point is surely, whereas in the past in all likelihood the position would have been taken by a catholic due to demographics(there were far more catholics then protestants), protestants were not banned from the position and protestants did hold the position

    the question asked this morning is, should the UK change to allow a similar position. The question is for TODAYS world, not the past.

    So, mad, what do you think. Should there be change or not ?

    >>How many Protestant Taoiseach have there been ?<<

    Couldnt tell you.. its never been an issue as far as im aware. Someones religion has no impact on their ability to fulfill a role in government or civil service and indeed any role not directly related to a particular religion.

  30. Mad

    I understand what you are doing it’s what you always do on almost every thread whatever it’s about. You know what I mean. I have a little wry smile on my face as I know you’re up to your usual tricks 😉 .

  31. Leaving Irish catholics aside, do people in the UK really still believe that english, scottish and welsh catholics would swear allegiance to the pope over the queen… unbelievable..

  32. Kloot – No Protestant Taoiseachs 😉

    True, the influence of the RC Church has diminished – but it’s still enormously powerful, far more so in The ROI than the Anglican churches are in the relevant parts of the UK. After all Bertie still takes his orders from All Hallows.

    Colm – I don’t know WHAT you mean 😉

  33. Kloot – why take chances ? 😉

  34. "Couldnt tell you.. its never been an issue as far as im aware. Someones religion has no impact on their ability to fulfill a role in government or civil service and indeed any role not directly related to a particular religion"

    – there have been many religious groups to try and use a state platform to underline their religion as the official law and its regulations (Iran is a big example), I don’t think Ireland is as immune to this in the modern era as we might like to think, the cultural and historical undercurrents in high society (I would suggest the section of society with the greatest interest in the nature of society and the largest potential for pre established loyalties) would still come under the influence of Irelands historic peers, no doubt the significant exposure of the moral decadence of sections of these peers has diluted this, however the perpetuation, for example, of the ‘prodo nazis’ stereotype from the president to clonards most handsome son, is a telling sign that it is not extinguished….

    goody goody,

    "If only the crown had taken the same view back in the 17th century we wouldn’t be in the mess we’re in now… "

    – im glad you (half) got my little jape, however as mad says, you should really consider a wider chronological spectrum of history when making these sorts of serious xenophobic pronunciations, I was making a jocular comparison to rhetoric, not history.

  35. kloot,

    "Leaving Irish catholics aside, do people in the UK really still believe that english, scottish and welsh catholics would swear allegiance to the pope over the queen… " – surely such people are therefore not actually Catholics in anything but an accident of birth, and in other words, not Catholics at all, a catholic is someone whose ultimate obedience is to the dictatums of the pope, otherwise your a ‘plastic papist’………….. ;>

  36. If there were a referrendum in Britain (no need for Northern Ireland, as the opinion there is published every second year or so), would a majority in the UK favour removal of the ban on their monarch marrying a Catholic, can anybody guess?

  37. Depends on how soon after Cherie departs from no 10 it was held Cunningham 🙂

  38. Juan,

    Too many big words for me 🙂

    Seriously though, of my mates, all in the their 20s to early 30s, I cant think of a single friend or indeed a single person i know of that age group who attends mass or pays any attention to the RC church. They are RC because their parents too a step when they were nippers to make them such. My generation are not following their parents and more and more are not baptising there kids and any that do, like weddings and confirmations, do so, as of habit, not faith.

    RC is dying in the ROI. Peoples allegiance is 100 % to the state. They might disagree with the state on religous issues, but the allegiance is clear.

  39. >>Kloot – No Protestant Taoiseachs ;)<<

    Seems so, but tell me one protestant person stopped from taking the position. Can the same be said about the UK head of state.. a definite no. 🙂

    The point is, in ROI, religion is just not an issue for roles. I work with 40 odd people from all different nations. I dont know their religion and nor is it any of my business. Same applies to government positions.

  40. Kloot, don’t be hoodwinked by that stupid argument about "allegience" to the state and to the Vatican, and all that crap. If there were any issue with "allegience" in Britain, would they accept Catholics into the armed forces, into Scotland Yard and into M15, let them into Parliament and Government?

    This is an old piece of sectarian legislation, pure and simple.

  41. kloot, the same could be said for all of catholic Europe, and it really is the case then that your not an actual catholic, its just the utilities for certain social things are still in catholic hands, that’s not to say you don’t have the potential to re-invest, and with the flush of patriotism and pride that usually accompanies authority (even if you are simply patriotic to an ideology) makes this likely. hence suspicions about agendas and loyalty……

    in business you cant have undeclared or contrary interest to a contract and have it remain valid, the head of state in constitutional monarchy should be no different.

    the true position of (what limited) authority an individual may have in our (pretty gosh darn ok) society is the pm, an office you are selected to by the vote in to which the British people should be allowed to elect whomever they wish. In the event of an unwise choice, the balance effect of the unelected house and crown, free to pursue the traditional path and traditional aspirations, is an essential failsafe that should remain exclusive of all direct foreign subserviation.

  42. the same can be said for the institutions Cunningham lists.

    it is to the immense credit of the British that they can keep such opportunities open to all, given our abject lack of homogeneity, most societies in our position have collapsed in to factionalism,
    keeping a portion of the state, although only that small portion, immune from this and subservient to the foundational order, is, therefore, essential.

  43. "The point is, in ROI, religion is just not an issue for roles. I work with 40 odd people from all different nations. I dont know their religion and nor is it any of my business. Same applies to government positions. "

    Kloot,

    this is an admirable position, but is it just a polity in what you say is a secular society, if secularism is the order of the day, its not simply none of your business, its irrelevant.
    If religion was fomenting and imposing, as it has in the past in Ireland, notably the Anglicans,
    (who are all fluff these days, apparently…………*suspicious flit of the eyes*)
    It would be your business as it effected you.

    if you were working with active nazis, for example, that sure would be your business because they would effect your surroundings…..

  44. Juan,

    I would wager that the majority of Irish catholics dont even know they are RC catholics or to what extent being a catholic differs from other christian faiths. Hence my assertion that the majority of Irish Catholics were and are sheep. They do not know the history nor the intrinsic differences between their faith and others.. i.e. they are not true believers.,

    Hence, with a more people receiving proper education, less and less attend to their religion, and the religion of capitalism takes over.

    I believe that the religious views protestants in NI are much more deeply held then those of catholics in the ROI. Its scared me the amount of churches in NI, they were everywhere. Reading peoples religious views on ATW, its clear that they firmly believe what they are saying, they are not just recanting the rules.

    Id like a religious free state, as in, its free for anyone to practice their religion, but dont impose it, im on the secular fence on that front.

  45. >>its not simply none of your business, its irrelevant.<<

    I didnt want to use the world irrelevant there. but thats what i meant. I dont believe that the majority of people in the ROI would change their opinion of a person based on their religion. Ive NEVER ever heard anyone ask someone their religion. Why, because we just dont care…we dont care in the sense that it just wont affect peoples views of others.

    I do care if someones religion is causing them to be treated differently. That is a problem to be dealt with.

    Would i elect a protestant taoiseach, well no, i cant as we dont elect taoisigh, but would i support a party who’s leader was protestant.. if his/hers policy’s are right.. im there

  46. >>I believe that the religious views protestants in NI are much more deeply held then those of catholics in the ROI.<<

    Kloot, Nonsense. What has the number of churches got to do with it? They are relics of a byegone age.
    Look at the number of churches on the Shankill Road. Do you think that the people there have such deeply held religious views? LOL

    >>it is to the immense credit of the British that they can keep such opportunities open to all,<<

    Jaun, well now, that’s really big of them. They actually let Catholics join the army!

    Your argument are futile, and I’m sure just a smokescreen for some comfortable prejudices on your part, as nobody could believe what your purport to.

    i.e. Catholics aren’t allowed into certain positions because of some shaky double allegience. Which you think is good.

    i.e. the Prime Minister, chief of staff of the army, head of MI5 etc. can all be Catholics, but the wife of Prince ABC or the husband of princess XYZ can’t, because their allegience.would put the country in danger!!

    >>In the event of an unwise choice, the balance effect of the unelected house and crown, …is an essential failsafe<<

    LOL!! Forget it! If all those unfaithful Catholics in parliament and government made an "unwise choice", Lizzie would, even if she felt so inclined, be powerless to do anything about it.

  47. >>What has the number of churches got to do with it? They are relics of a byegone age.<<

    The number of churches was one aspect of my argument, it wasn’t my argument in total!! These churches were no old style protestant churches, these were what appeared to be actively used places of worship. My point still stands that I believe that people hold their religious views much stronger in the Protestant community in NI. The DUP is a party which strongly stands by its religious association.

  48. Cunningham,
    Britain has never had a Catholic Prime Minister and while there is no constitutional bar, it could prove awkward as the PM makes recommendations to the Queen on the appointment of Church of England bishops.

  49. So we have established that following

    In the ROI –
    Anyone can be head of state
    Anyone can be a taoiseach.

    In the UK –
    Catholics cant be Head of state
    Anyone can be PM

    Does the ROI win the openness award so 🙂

    Ive got to run now.. collecting my new car…and no, its not a catholic car. I believe its an atheist

  50. In the UK –
    Catholics cant be Head of state

    In the UK the Head of state HAS to be a Catholic.
    The Queen is a Catholic.

  51. >>
    In the UK the Head of state HAS to be a Catholic.
    The Queen is a Catholic. <<

    In the ROI, Catholic = RC Catholic. The RC bit just aint used… do we still win 🙂

  52. <Q>In the ROI, Catholic = RC Catholic. </Q>

    Showing that you are far more chauvinistic than we (enlightened) protestants !

  53. >>
    Showing that you are far more chauvinistic than we (enlightened) protestants !<<

    read my point earlier about the bulk of Irish people and their understanding of their religion…

    im really living this time…

  54. you drive on the right so that makes it proddy and our cars are all Catholics ! it that underclass thing again you see, the poor old cars…….

    Cunningham, something more than just "rubbish" and " smokescreen" would be nice after all my efforts.

    "i.e. the Prime Minister, chief of staff of the army, head of MI5 etc. can all be Catholics, but the wife of Prince ABC or the husband of princess XYZ can’t, because their allegience.would put the country in danger!! " Well done this is the gist of my argument,
    that in a multi faceted egalitarian society a small portion of the state must remain subservient to the foundational order so as to safeguard against factionalism and as a guiding light for the reestablishment of our current functionality in times of electoral madness………

    also , while we are offended by your diminutive reference to Queen Elizabeth, you will note you are free to make them, although it does suggest something of your character, which the lurid triumphalist sectarianism of a statement like "Look at the number of churches on the Shankill Road. Do you think that the people there have such deeply held religious views? LOL" seems to confirm, despite your lurid sectarian stereotypes, the social problems in the Shankill are mirrored in west Belfast as a whole, now I know SF like to paint a different picture, the wee man getting laughed at as he crawled up the falls road sans a leg recently paints a different picture, there are a number of Deep conviction Christians in the Shankill, one of their better ones was an evangelical taxi service, (you ring a taxi and get a bit of a pitch while your ‘delivered’, so to speak), although the media from which you draw your clearly sophisticated opinions may not focus on these aspects of a heavily discriminated against community, that is not to say they don’t exist, the Shankill people are not laughable, nor inferior, the Christian and social work labours many of them undertake, with virtually no support or encouragement (thanks to prats joyously proclaiming they are all scum) is inspirational.
    and their churches and Sunday schools are packed, by the way.

  55. Never mind Kloot – in a couple of Generations The ROI will be an Islamic state. If you are lucky the UK will invade 😉

  56. MR

    Knowing our luck the north will be Shia and the south will be Sunni and we’ll all carry on as normal but without the drink.

  57. and the Allience will go sufi……

  58. "After all Bertie still takes his orders from All Hallows"

    Mad – you have said this a few times – please provide PROOF. It is not true, I can say that Prince Charles is a Paedophile, doesb’t make it true just because you or a politician in the SOuth says it. PROVE IT.

    "in a couple of Generations The ROI will be an Islamic state"

    eh hello? I think you find it’s the old lady UK that is being bombed by its own Muslim subjects not Ireland.

    We are brining in hundreds of thousands of immigrants to service our booming economy – and they are on the whole White, Christian, Europeans who will be integrated within a generation.

    With NI’s state dependace and lack of social / political unity – what future for the failed 6??

  59. There was a referendum in the ROI in 1995 – just after I moved to Dublin – the place was so alive, so buzzing, i’d never seen or felt change like it – it was electric.
    The old guard came out and said that Divorce could not be brought in. It is contrary to Catholic Doctrine they said.
    The Bishops came out vehemently – all the power we can muster on the Government of this Republic they said we will.

    The Government held the Referendum.

    The Government provided funds to the pro Divorce lobby until this was ruled unfair by the courts.

    The old guard , with huge resources from the US and other places mounted a fierce campaign

    ‘Divorce will increase your Taxes’

    ‘Hello Divorce Bye Bye Daddy’

    etc – Millions spent.

    On the day the vote was narrowly in favour, the church, opus dei, the old guard, all off them faced down by the new generation that you choose for your own reasons to ignore.

    Amazing change, such rapid change has happened in this place since then, it has been a priveledge to be part of it.

    The balance of power in this place shifted in the 1990’s and will never be the same again.
    Peole who still live in the timewarp that is NI fail to see this.

    But just because you close your eyes to the changes here does not mean that they go away.

    One of our most prominent Senators David Norris is Protestant, Gay and very proud of his and our country’s British heritage. Perhaps you should have a chat with him….it might enlighten you.

  60. Thats a fair point Mad. You have as no basis at all for saying that Ahern takes orders from All Hallows. He said he takes takes calls from All Hallows in the same we that he regularly takes calls from Protestant Bishops and indeed he recently took a call from Ian Paisley – does that mean the Republic is being run by the Free P’s???

    I take calls from my Aunt Iris all the time, I listen politely to what she has to say, sometimes I even agree with her – but that is not the same as taking my orders from her!

  61. The wolf disguised as a sheep is hilarious. He’s so familiar looking that I feel like I know him.

  62. Notme,

    I reckon we all know him!!

  63. Armaghlite – the failed 6 has once again forced physical force republicanism to grovel – and if it’s "failed" where does that leave Adams and McGuinness who are licking Blair’s boots ( polite version) in order to try help run British Rule in Ireland 🙂

    As for Bertie – I think the Ferns report rather let the cat out of the bag in respect of relationship between Church and state, eh what ?

  64. David: In the bad old days some unkind person might suggest that most loyalists and/or unionists would have knowledge (in a Biblical sense) of sheep. However, thankfully we are moving past such namecalling now.

  65. Madradin,

    Adams and McGuinness have their own reasons for wanting to run NI – nothing to do with me i’ve never voted for them.

    As for the Ferns Report – That was all based on stuff that happened when the Church and state were close ,agreed – and it showed how dispicable the Church acted in failing to hand over paedo priests, it also showed how individual Gardai were so intimidated by the church that they failed to believe a priest could do so wrong. indeed, it was hard for most of us to believe that those in such a position of trust could abuse it so awfully, but that still does not prove what you are saying about NOW.

    The Ferns Report, initiated and investigated by the Irish State was very worthy and shone a bright light into what was a very very dark place. The Govt have launched another report into the Church’s wrongdoings in the Dublin Diocese. Should be interesting.

    The Church do not run this place now, that they had undue influence in the past is unquestionable but please do try to stay in the present.

    On a serious note, visit The ROI some time, you really will see how it has changed. I would appreciate if you respected the hard won achievements of a liberal and radical generation of Irish Citizens.

  66. Armaghlite – I have been in the ROI – it’s a mess.
    I also have family in the ROI.

    Liberal and radical my arse – money-grubbing.

    Boot the church out of education and healthcare and I’ll start to think their influence is no longer a concern

    The ROI might not be as big a mess as it was 40 years ago – but then again neither are China and Russia – and I don’t want them taking my country over either 😉

  67. Mad – you really find the population to be money-grubbing? There certainly are opportunities that where never available to people in past generations, and economic booms tend to produce an undue amount of Yuppies, but do you really feel that way about all the people there?

  68. The 26 counties and the Church is Mad’s "hot topic", please don’t get him started as the hyperbole and hypocrisy is unbelievable!

    MR

    Good evening Comrade 😉

  69. Chris – I intend to appeal to his inner Fenian.

  70. It’s just bursting to come out, sure he is of fenian blood anyway 😉

  71. Ah – evening Comrade Gaskin LOL
    How is life in Thames house ? 😉

  72. "How is life in Thames house ?"

    Cad é sin?

  73. Oops, did I write Thames house ? 😉
    I meant Connolly House !

  74. It’s too late, MR, you’ve blown Chris’s cover now, and exposed him as an MI5 agent.

  75. MR

    LOL, Cá bhfuil mar a bheadh a fhios agamsa?

    Ná nocht d’fhiacla go bhféadair an greim do bhreith! 😉

    Tom

    No, just MR’s wishfull thinking

  76. Don’t understand the second phrase Chris – were you saying that it was an easily made mistake ? 😉

    Off Topic – just did some reading about the Story of Kevin Halfpenny. Tragic.

    http://www.cyc-net.org/cyc-online/cycol-0601-heaney.html

    http://www.feralchildren.com/en/showchild.php?ch=kevin

  77. It basically means don’t start smoething you can’t finish.The literal translation is "don’t bare your teeth until you can bite". 😉

    Good advice for you lol

  78. should read "something"

  79. why is Balrog down?

  80. It’s not

  81. The others were no big loss, but Balrog hasn’t been the same since you ate Paddy!

  82. Paddy is alive and well, his new employment has meant that he is unable to blog.

  83. Pffft – that’s not what he told me at last night’s Ouija session… he said you added insult to injury by cooking him à l’orange !

  84. LOL

    You want to be carefull messings with the dark arts MR, nasty business!

    I would never cook à l’orange, too bitter 😉