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Is it over?

By Patrick Van Roy On July 7th, 2018

North Korea Foreign Ministry says talks with Pompeo ‘regrettable,’ accuses US of unilateral demands for denuclearization

  • Secretary of State Mike Pompeo journey to Pyongyang appears to have hit a snag, with a North Korean official calling his visit “regrettable.”
  • The statement accused the U.S. of making unilateral demands.

North Korea says high-level talks with a U.S. delegation led by Secretary of State Mike Pompeo were “regrettable” and has accused Washington of trying to unilaterally pressure the country into abandoning its nukes.

The statement by an unnamed North Korean Foreign Ministry spokesman on Saturday came hours after Pompeo concluded two days of talks with North Korean officials led by Kim Yong Chol.

The statement says that the United States betrayed the spirit of last month’s summit between President Donald Trump and North Korean leader Kim Jong Un by making unilateral demands on “CVID,” or the complete, verifiable and irreversible denuclearization of North Korea.

It says the outcome of the follow-up talks was “very concerning” because it has led to a “dangerous phase that might rattle our willingness for denuclearization that had been firm.”

The Dance starts anew as the Norks continue to spin their side of the negotiations as of course we shall spin our view of them. The issues however do not change.

Sanctions will remain, War Games can be scheduled tomorrow and aggressive action by the Norks can easily be answered by more than games.  The U.S. has 3 Carrier Groups and two additional AirWings stationed in striking distance.

The Norks can dance all they want their position is a binary one. Disarm and join the World, or Fire Missiles and face the consequences.

The fact that those are the only two choices will not stop the dance however. The Norks will push, hem and haw, for as long as they can.

We hold our breaths and wait and see….. more than that there is nothing the people of the world can do, but before Trump leaves office it will get settled.

54 Responses to “Is it over?”

  1. How can one be so wrong about issues on two different continents in the same day?

  2. as hilary said last week, just when you think we’ve reached the bottom, there’s another one.

  3. The only thing over is the Russia/Trump collusion investigation.

  4. That’s fine Patty, Trumps whole philosophy and actions/words is Russia First
    MRGA and you’re clearly delighted with that .. enjoy the unholy alliance baby .
    Better get your Russian phrasebook out, gonna need it ..

  5. Does this mean that Trump no longer gets his Nobel prize?

    Does his adoring flock take back any of their praise worship?

  6. Pompeo’s mission was to wreck any chance of a deal. Trump was serious which is why military exercises with South Korea were cancelled, but the deep-state didn’t like the prospect of withdrawing from South Korea – hence Pompeo……

    https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2018/07/07/north-korea-thinks-pompeo-has-reneged-on-the-deal/

    Let this be a lesson to Putin, as if he needs another one, that no deal with Washington can be trusted. As Assad recently said, talking with Washington is a waste of time, because Washington’s word doesn’t mean anything. Washington says one thing and does another.

    Putin also has the example of Trump tearing up the nuclear agreement with Iran. Now apparently North Korea. Russia herself has a long miserable experience of stupidly trusting Washington: “NATO won’t move one inch to the East.” The ABM Treaty, and so on.

  7. Ah, a conspiracy

    I knew it

  8. While some in this parish were giddy with praise over the Trump-Kim meeting, speaking of Nobel prizes, and how Trump had such a better approach than Obama and the others, wiser heads counseled caution. Someone said that this was a high risk / high reward proposition, involving a murderous regime known for breaking every agreement that it ever entered into with the West.

    It appears that Trump has badly miscalculated, that he has reached no deal, and that his meeting never moved us in the direction of any deal.

  9. Trump still has a better approach then Obama a first year grad student in liberal arts would have a better approach than Obama had about anything.

    Kim will play his dance and him and haw it is to be expected. It doesn’t change his only two options. Disarm or Die.

    It could also be the Chicoms. Negotiating, The new sanctions this week truly hurt the chinese. They tell the Norks to go sideways In exchange for calming little rocket man ease up on the sanctions. It would be a logical play by the chinese.

    Either way this dance is going to be a slow one…. nights in white satin slow.

  10. Trump made concessions – the meeting with a US president, which immensely added to Kim’s prestige, and relief from sanctions.

    In return, North Korea has increased its nuclear activities.

    Trump has been exceptionally naive. After attacking one of our strongest allies ( Trudeau ) he goes in unprepared to meet with the murderous Kim, and immediately starts gushing about what a great guy he is.

    He thinks that international affairs are done on the basis of one on one personal relationships and schmoozing. Maybe sometimes they are. But most of the time that’ss not how it’s done.

    Trump’s Korea policy appears to be a failure. And I’m not sure that China is in Any big hurry to bail him out now, despite the really great relationship that he thinks that he has with Xi.

    Trump seems to have no desire to treat the western allies with respect at a time when we need them

  11. In return, North Korea has increased its nuclear activities.

    NO IT HASN’T they were testing warheads and shooting rockets. They are not doing that let alone increasing that activity….

    Working on a missile base is a tactic nothing more for there to be an increase they would have to be doing the other two and more or it’s not an increase….

    You’re consumed with TDS.

  12. Phantom 4:28

    Well said. All points.

    I think Kim has played Trump for a fool. He’s finished testing his nukes and Ballistic missiles for now, so he’s used this opportunity to buy time and reduce sanctions, by lying to Trump. He will be continuing to develop his weapons in secret elsewhere.

  13. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/north-korea/north-korea-has-increased-nuclear-production-secret-sites-say-u-n887926

    But if course, it’s all the fault of the “:deep state “ according to Allan and the little Allans of ATW.

    Never for one moment consider that Trump has just made a serious geopolitical error. One of several that he is making.

  14. When N Korea is still deveoping nuclear materials and producing missiles, Trump tweets that it is “no longer a threat”. (but of course a denuclearised Iran “threatens the whole world”)

    After the last meeting of diplomats, Pompeo says the talks were productive while NK says the Americans are “gangsters”,

    The two sides are obviously not on the same page. Trump needed something packaged as a diplomatic success to silence criticism and scandals at home, God knows what Pyonyang wanted.

  15. Instead of giving him Rocket Man, they should have brought him Goodbye Yellow Brick Road as Trump’s foreign policy is real as Oz.

  16. A few of us here have said all along that Trump doesn’t know what he’s doing. This and other situations is proof of that.

    The summit with a murderer known for supreme deceit was agreed to impulsively, and by every account Trump didn’t much prepare for it.

    Winging it is not a strategy.

  17. nights in white satin slow.

    That brings back some memories!

  18. https://www.thedailybeast.com/trumps-north-korea-policy-just-collapsed?ref=homew

    Pyongyang, by humiliating Secretary of State Pompeo, exposed the fallacy at the heart of American policy.

    Gordon Chang is an Asia expert, and is no Trump basher. If he says that the policy has failed, it has failed

  19. No one can say at this point if it’s a success or a failure, to do so ignores the history of the Norks and would be conclusion drawn from emotion not fact.

    They have played games with every President since the Korean War, but it’s Trumps failure because Little Rocket Man hasn’t just bowed down and surrendered immediately. Come back to reality gentleman (if you can).

    Kim still has only the two options I listed above.

  20. Trump placed trust in Kim’s good faith, even generously giving the North Korean incentives to stall negotiations. The president backed off sanctions, for instance, providing de facto relief. Moreover, he has been allowing China to violate U.S. and UN measures with impunity, and he has not acted against a slightly less-brazen Russia either.

    More important, since at least the end of May the administration has held off sanctioning almost three dozen entities, some of them Russian and Chinese. Because North Korea continually changes front companies, not going after Pyongyang’s new shells essentially spells the end of sanctions.

    Trump gave Kim another gift: suspension of large-scale joint military exercises with South Korea. The president, incredibly, did that without getting the North Koreans to suspend their drills. Therefore, the Korean People’s Army will proceed with its summer training cycle while U.S. and South Korea forego August’s Ulchi Freedom Guardian exercise, intended to keep UN Command forces at a high state of readiness.

    All this means Trump cannot waste time.

    Trump has famously boasted of his new relationship with Kim. By now, the president has learned—or should have learned—that Kim rulers do not reciprocate friendly gestures. They perceive them as signs of weakness and then press the advantage. While Trump was toasting and complimenting the current Kim, his regime was increasing production of fissile material and continuing construction of missile facilities.

  21. Phantom, your link says that it was right for Trump to give Kim a “one time shot” which I think is correct. Trump will re-assess and adjust.

  22. I know

    But he could have prepared, and refused to do so, since he never prepares. Error.

    He declared victory right after the meeting. Error.

    He has made significant concessions, and has received a bag of nothing in return.

  23. Charles

    Gordon Chang is well worth paying attention to

    http://www.gordonchang.com

    He has a knowledgeable laser focus on north Asia

  24. Phantom, Chang has made some very good points, but I agree with Patrick that Kim is in a binary situation. Kim took the American right hand in friendship, but needs to realize that the left hand is a fist.

    We gave Kim his one time shot. If he rejects it, I hope Trump kicks the tires and lights the fires.

  25. As Al Bundy use to say before the rumble: “Let’s Dance”. Hell we haven’t had a really good war since Vietnam.

  26. GORDON G. CHANG….. well if you’re going to bank on him as your go to authority he claims China is about to collapse.

  27. Charles

    I guardedly accepted that the meeting might be good

    But Trump’s approach to it was entirely wrong

    He gave big concessions without getting anything similar in return.

    And his overemphasis on personal relationships ( Kim, like Xi and , Putin are “ great guys “, and “really smart “ ) is just stupid. Successful Big corporations don’t make decisions based on personal relationships, neither do countries

    He doesn’t know what he’s doing. At some point a smart guy like you has to realize this.

  28. Phantom please explain the big concessions?

  29. By the way nice of you to respond to the email like a professional.

  30. Phantom, George W. Bush made the same mistake with Putin, gazing into his soul and seeing a nice guy. You may be right that business types like Bush and Trump are naive when they base foreign policy on a personal sense of goodness in the other party.

    That’s why Nixon and Kissinger were experts in the “great game.” They were just as tricky and underhanded as their foreign opponents.

  31. The meeting itself was a concession that gave Kim national and international legitimacy. Clinton, GWB, Obama refused to meet with the North Koreans as they didn’t want to give them that gift

    The cancellation of this years US-ROK military exercises while allowing North Korean exercises to go right ahead as scheduled, an incredibly huge concessio

  32. Yes that was an incredible error by GWB

    And Trump is making the same error on a larger scale, partially as part of a need to show himself as smarter than all other presidents

    Nixon had seen enough of the bad side of politics and life that he saw people as they were, not as how he wanted them to be. He had few illusions. He had exceptional clarity in dealing with China and Russia

  33. And Trump is making the same error on a larger scale,

    I must agree. Let us pray the the President can make lemonade out of these lemons!

  34. Charles

    Trump will soon meet with Mr Putin

    How would you feel if, when at those meetings, Trump accepted the Russian annexation of Crimea, or Russian aggression in eastern Ukraine?

  35. Trump giving Russia a free hand in the Ukraine would be a HUGE betrayal of the nascent democracy there. Reproachment with Russia must be handled with a keen eye. This is no job for moose and squirrel!

  36. You asked how would I feel if it happened. I would not like it, but it wouldn’t be the first time that Puty-poot pulled one over on a Republican President. He’s not ex-KGB for nothing.

  37. I don’t think that Trump has the slightest concern for Ukraine, Georgia, or the three Baltic nations. I Think that he would sell them out in a minute, as part of some “realpolitik “ deal with Russia

    Such a thing would absolutely terrify the Poles, etc, and would serve to destabilize Europe

  38. I hope that Trump isn’t that stupid, but, as a friend of mine says, hope is a piss poor plan.

  39. Phantom

    I think you’re on to something vis-a-vis Ukraine. Trump would sell them out in a New York minute to scare Europe into ponying up the 2% of GDP for NATO. Always follow the money.

  40. Russia possesses Crimea, and that won’t change

    But ratifying / accepting in any way, formally or informally, that grab of Ukrainian territory at point of a gun, at this time, would be entirely wrong

  41. I think the Russians are also in E. Ukraine to stay. If Ukraine were a thriving economy and democracy, people in the west would probably be more willing to support Kiev, but as it is, Ulkraine will probably have to make do with what it has.

  42. Russia thinks that it is some sort of a great nation, when it is just a huge, poor, corrupt, drunken, declining state

    They have the ability to smack around nations that are even poorer than they are, Which is nothing to be proud of

    I wish that relations with Russia were better than they are, But it’s hard to see that happening.

    If Trump betrays Ukraine and other victim nations in order to appease Russia, there will be considerable backlash in the United States and in Europe

  43. // when it is just a huge, poor, corrupt, drunken, declining state//

    It’s certainly a mess at the moment. But Russia has such vast reserves in natural resources to make any western country look like a starving orphan. It has potential for great wealth as a nation. They are on average also clever people. I wouldn’t write Russia off.

    But of course now all that potential and the wealth is being bagged by the few, and any capitalist country is a model of socialism in terms of how wealth is spread. That’s also not likely to change as long as the big P is in power, but it will change some day. Maybe there’ll even be another October Revolution some time.

  44. The meeting was a concession, but the meeting took place with three carrier groups and two additional airwings in striking position.

    That display of force combined with Trumps rhetoric has achieved more than all other presidents before him. It made the Kims understand that this is going to end. It’s their choice if they want the carrot or the stick, and unlike his predecessors they believe if pushed Trump will use the stick.

  45. //they believe if pushed Trump will use the stick.//

    Patrick, they know that Trump will use his stick only with people like Stormy Daniels.

    The Donald is a peacenik – Make love, not war, man.

  46. don’t bet against it Noel

  47. Kim still has all the cards that he had before, aside from the testing site that had collapsed and which was gone anyway, while a US president has given Kim a meeting, deferred sanctions, and cancelled the US/RofK military exercises

    Which is probably being interpreted as a sign of weakness and lack of will on the part of the North Koreans.

    The communist monarchy has to date completely out negotiated Mr. Trump.

    They won’t launch missiles anytime soon, but they won’t give up their nukes soon either.

  48. Trump is a soft, hypersensitive man who wants us to think that he is tough.

    Such a person should never be in any position of military authority.

  49. Phantom your 9:18 is pure defeatist bullshit.

    What cards does Kim hold? Yes his testing site had been rendered useless with their last test and destruction of access to it would have happened with or without negotiations.

    Before this anonymous report that the Norks viewed Pompeo’s last visit as a visit from a mobster making demands what were they concerned about? The Kim family survival. They do not want to end up like how Clinton did Gaddafi and being drug through the streets.

    That hasn’t changed. The Chicoms nor the Russians are resupplying the Norks with the supplies needed to develop a new warhead testing area or missile parts. This dance of bluster has been part of their style of negotiating for over 20 years… oh but if it doesn’t instantly stop Trumps a Failure.

    The Sanctions have NOT been lifted as you “imply” and the equation is the same. 3 Carrier Groups, 2 Additional Airwings which includes a very large contingent of our stealth.

    The Chinese are in the middle of trying to prevent their economy from collapsing with the new tariffs and we just sailed two Warships into the straits of Taiwan. The last thing the chicoms are going to do is throw the Norks a rope.

    As for the Russians they have their own issues that they are playing with. We have an upcoming Summit with them and we are both the middle of trying to tie down Turkey.

    Russia is trying to get our wayward “NATO” Ally to accept a Major Missile System installation in the center of Turkey. Which causes a conflict in NATO and causes our bases in Turkey for strength projection into the ME to be in real jeopardy. Russia doesn’t have time for the Norks.

    So fatboy Kim has no cards to play except bluster and stall.

    We have been playing this dance with the Norks for decades, but it’s a “complete” farce and failure because Trump hasn’t gotten them to pledge allegiance to the American Flag in 3 months….. yeah you’re waiting to see how things play out with a non biased eye….

  50. Re Trumps london visit:
    One chief constable said the resources that had been asked for were on the scale required “if London was burning down”. Firearms officers, armed counter-terrorism units, public order officers and dog handlers are being deployed for the visit.

  51. Jude

    All those resources are being deployed just to protect the Queen from Donald’s wandering hands 😉

  52. indeed colm and lets hope he won’t crap in the bed at windsor 🙂

  53. I think that Baby Trump blimp is just the Queen in disguise hoping to get above it all for the day.

    Meanwhile some HM Patsy will be put in place in Winsor castle and allow herself to be bored and possibly groped by The Donald. The double of course won’t have the fine manners of the real Queen, but – WTF palace officials will have thought – the US President will never notice the difference.

  54. prolly right Noel the real queen prolly thinks
    One hasn’t been grabbed by the *ahem* since Suez