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TRUMP: GERMANY “A CAPTIVE OF RUSSIA”

By Pete Moore On July 11th, 2018

He has a fair point.

Berlin has  a record of chumming up to the Russians, and I’m not just talking about the partition of Poland. Merkel’s predecessor, Gerhard Schröder, is a close friend of Putin who ended up on the board of Nord Stream AG and Rosneft. Merkel herself has often opposed US sanctions against Russia.

It might be that they can defend their positions, but they are compromised by Germany’s suicidal destruction of its power stations. The rush to blanket the country in windmills has left the country dangerously reliant on Russian energy supplies. So Germany has hamstrung its ability to relate with Russia honestly.

140 Responses to “TRUMP: GERMANY “A CAPTIVE OF RUSSIA””

  1. When East Germany was actually a captive of Russia Trump’s friend Putin was in the KGB trying to keep it that way.

  2. Why is it any business of this bum to decide who Germany buys its energy from, and to publicly mouth off about it?

    The more he mouths off in this highly disrespectful way, the less influence the US has in Europe.

    Does he really expect Germany to cancel the pipeline to satisfy his whim?

    Does Russia get to veto the XL pipeline now?

  3. Let’s say for the sake of discussion that this pipeline is a bad idea And that Germany buying energy from Russia is a bad idea

    Would not quiet diplomacy from here the US work a lot better than a public criticism of German policy? By shouting at the Germans like this, trump makes it nearly impossible for them to change policy without looking weak

    Some of the most effective international negotiation takes place in private, or is done in a soft voice. This clown does everything in a hollering, Look at me, twittering voice

  4. Trump doesn’t understand trade.

  5. It is logical that Russia buy energy from Russia

    Why shouldn’t they?

    They nearby options are the Russians and the Middle East.

    The Russians are the better option.

    Germany is developing their alternative energy capacity, but they’ll be burning oil and gas for a long time. And a lot of that oil and gas will come from Russia.

  6. Germany buy energy from Russia

  7. //When East Germany was actually a captive of Russia Trump’s friend Putin was in the KGB trying to keep it that way.//

    Right. In fact, as you probably know, Putin was based in East Germany for a lot of his KGB career, and when the whole shambles collapsed in 1990 he made sure he burned all his records before German demonstrators got their hands on them.

    Otherwise, Trump is talking through his usual arse.

    He claimed that Germany is getting 70% of its energy from Russia, through the new pipelines.
    But in fact the pipelines carry only natural gas, and gas makes up only around one fifth of Germany’s energy supplies. RRussia contributes only around one third of Germany’s gas imports. i.e. if Trump is making the additional mistake of confusing gas and energy, his 70% actually becomes (one third of one fifth) 7 %.

    Germany of course also sources other energy from Russia, but in total less than a quarter of all its energy imports come from that country.

    (Other countries in eastern Europe are much more dependent. As far as I know, Poland gets around 70 percent of its energy from Russia. Maybe Trump was confusing Germany and Poland.)

    Germany buys this 25 percent of its energy from Russia simply because . have a guess, Mr Businessman – it’s cheaper and more practical. Almost all of it could be sourced elsewhere. Germany is on the other hand Russia’s second biggest customer, and imports more Russian products than any country except China. I’d imagine Russia the supplier is more dependent on its customers than vice versa.

    Markel is of course also one of the strongest critics of the Putin govt and its antics in Ukraine, much more than Trump is.

  8. By the way

    One tell the heiress that The United States buys a lot of energy from Russia, and has been buying it for a long time

    https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MTTIM_NUS-NRS_1&f=M

  9. If the West restricts its purchases of Russian energy, China will thank them.

    The price that it pays will go down.

  10. Russia has a history of using energy as a weapon. See Ukraine and turning off the gas.

  11. The Ukrainians had been stealing gas from transit pipelines and not they had not paid their bills for gas sold to them either

    Germany does not steal gas and they pay their bills

  12. Phantom, on July 11th, 2018 at 1:39 PM Said:
    Why is it any business of this bum to decide who Germany buys its energy from, and to publicly mouth off about it?

    Because this “BUM” represents the Americans who pat for Germany’s defense.

    If they want to by gas and Oil from the Russians instead of us well then we don’t need to protect them and we certainly don’t need to keep OUR TROOPS in Germany….

    Maybe that’s why this “BUM” who represents the People of America whose blood and money is spent protecting the ungrateful Krauts……

    Once again Phantoms HATE and TDS has him bad mouthing America and Supporting a Russian-German alliance over the interests of the AMERICAN PEOPLE…….

  13. Because this “BUM” represents the Americans who PAY for Germany’s defense.

  14. This bum has no idea What he is talking about, or who is talking to

  15. Me or Trump……

    You’re wrong in both cases

  16. Trump doesn’t believe in NATO in the first place

    That’s really what all of this is about

  17. Pat,

    So basically you are saying Germany (and others) must buy energy from the US or else.

    That sounds like the actions of a bully rather than an ally.

    FYI, there is no Russian-German alliance. Merkel has rightly been strongly critical of President Trump’s buddy in the Kremlin.

  18. Anymore what is there to believe in about it?

    It is no longer needed for our defense.

  19. So if you don’t Believe in NATO, then you have become the full Trumper And wear that badge of shame forever

    A country without allies is not gonna be strong for long

    Oil is the most fungible product there is;,If Germany does not by Russian oil Then 100 other countries will

    Boycotting Russian oil is a completely ignorant policy. Boycotts are for morons

  20. no reg I’m saying they should NOT be buying it from Russia when there are other sources.

    If they are concerned about Russian Aggresion they shouldn’t be PAYING FOR IT buy buying Russia’s Gas and Oil…..

    And if they are Ok paying for the military that is threatening them why should American Blood be on the line to defend them?

  21. the two donalds are squaring off, one a Tusk the other a Trump
    “European Council President Donald Tusk accused him of criticising Europe “almost daily”, tweeting: “Dear America, appreciate your allies, after all you don’t have that many.”
    That is the QOTD – quite brilliant, standing up to the “BULLY BUM” — *applauds* ..

  22. The Russians buy a lot of things from the west Including Boeing airplanes

    So I guess they are funding NATO and the American military as well,

    This is where this moron argument gets you

  23. NATO is no longer necessary for us, I am in favor of keeping it, but the troops we have in Germany should be moved to Poland and Turkey should be removed from NATO.

  24. Even during the Cold War there was trade between Russia and the west

    You guys don’t want to return to the Cold War, you want to go straight to the hot war

  25. NATO remains essential for the United States

    The Europeans should pay more, as I have always said, but trumps incompetent negotiating style is not helpful in getting them to do so

  26. Phantom, on July 11th, 2018 at 2:52 PM Said:
    The Russians buy a lot of things from the west Including Boeing airplanes

    So I guess they are funding NATO and the American military as well,

    This is where this moron argument gets you

    No it doesn’t, that is Russia’s choice. If they are willing to boost our economy and our military that is a CHOICE and a CALCULATION the Russians have made and find acceptable and the benefit outweighs the detriment for them.

    The benefit detriment equation is not the SAME for Germany now is it Moron….

  27. Trump’s initial statement “ Germany is a captive of Russia “ Is hugely insulting and entirely wrong

    No one who knows anything about energy or Germany or Europe could ever agree that there was any truth to that statement

  28. Maybe that’s why this “BUM” who represents the People of America whose blood and money is spent protecting the ungrateful Krauts……

    What US blood has been spilled ‘protecting’ Europe since 1945 Pat? There has however been quite a considerable quantity of European blood spilled assisting US invasions and fighting their subsequent wars.

    Maybe Trunp should consider that payment in kind and stop being such an insensitive, brash, ignoramous on the issue?

  29. “ Cadet bone spur “made damned sure that his life was never on the line in any military conflict

  30. //And if they are Ok paying for the military that is threatening them why should American Blood be on the line to defend them?//

    I’m not sure what you mean there (probably one thing we have in common :-).
    Russian military isn’t threatening Germany, nor does Germany pay the Russian military.

    It buys energy from Russian suppliers, the same as practically every other country does, as Phantom says.

    Germany does, however, pay about 1 billion Dollars p.a. for US military bases in the country.

    The US of course does have a point regarding EU countries paying too little into Nato.
    Germany pays around 1.5 pc of its GDP.

    (It’s a weird statistic that Germany pays each year to and for immigrants around half of what it pays for defence (25 bn and 50 bn respectively). Non-Nato Sweden spends the same amount on immigrants as it does on defence, 1 pc of GDP in each case)

    But this is a long-time gripe, Trump didn’t discover it. It was always the top of the agenda any time Obama visited Europe.

  31. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coalition_casualties_in_Afghanistan

    There were NATO deaths in Afghanistan, but f*** them. They’re failed soldiers anyway.

    Best listen to Trump, who knows best

  32. Does Russia get to veto the XL pipeline now?

    If Russia was paying for America’s defence from Canada, I’m sure they’d have an opinion on it.

  33. Wow

    Mr 180 speaketh

    Maybe you can now give a speech about why free trade is bad

    All the Trumpers seem to have sold our every one of their principles on everything

  34. You have to admire the instant ease with which commies flip the narrative.

    Russia is a monster, they tell us. It meddles in elections. It tipped the referendum toward Brexit. It’s permanently diddling with our computers and infrastructure. It props up despots and stands poised to invade Eastern Europe.

    Then the moment Trump criticises the Krauts for importing huge amounts of Russian oil and gas for megabucks it’s “hey, the Russians are cool man. Why shouldn’t the Germans give Russia billions every year? He’s such a doofus …”

  35. INMO, Germany can buy invest in gas pipelines to RUssia if they like.

    And the USA should stop funding NATO.

    NATO is irrelevant in 2018. Obviously.

  36. Dear NATO so-called allies – it’s time to defend yourselves.

  37. “You have to admire the instant ease with which commies flip the narrative.”

    yes, agree. This always amazes/shocks me.

    It’s almost as if they are not tethered to reality or commons sense.

  38. Dear NATO so-called allies – it’s time to defend yourselves.

    Patty, same question to you as to Pat:

    What US blood has been spilled ‘defending’ Europe since 1945?

    There has however been quite a considerable quantity of European blood spilled assisting US invasions and fighting their subsequent wars.

  39. Pete: what if we’ve been played by the Left and it’s really Germany who is the “puppet” of Russia? Would a Russian “puppet” say: you get 70% of your gas from Russia?

  40. Paul raises an excellent point

    Europeans have spilled blood in the defense of the United States, in Afghanistan, and also in the Iraq error

    But to listen to the Trumpy brain-deads, they’re a bunch of Brie eating latte sipping loafers Who have never done anything

    In truth, the Europeans have done more of the heavy lifting in blood and injury on behalf of the United States then America has borne in defense of Europe in the last 75 years

    The soft men who gravitate to the likes of Trump Measure everything in money. But alliances are made of more than money, and Europe has born a disproportionate share of the price. A major tip of the hat to paul for raising this exceptionally valid point

  41. I did not know that Ex chancellor Shroeder was head of the Russian oil pipe line company. What corruption!
    What lies we have been told!

    Windmills. Global warming. So-called environmental moral superiority. oh….yeah…..oil pipelines also…..

  42. Shroeder is an evil crook, another Trump or Hillary

  43. What US blood has been spilled ‘defending’ Europe since 1945?

    Our troops are injured all the time in training accidents. Besides the blood spilt 1917-1918 and 1941-1945 should be sufficient for Europe.

  44. Just as I’ve always thought that the State did no favors to Religion in the UK (by being one and the same), I think that NATO and the American largesse (well after WWII was over) has done no favors to Western Europe.

    Religion shriveled and dried up thanks to the State umbrella.

    Western Europe is weak and delusional with multi-cultural moral superiority games thanks to the US umbrella.

  45. Training accidents are not in ‘defence of Europe’ Charles, they are part of soldier life in all armies.

    As for both World Wars, you came late to both parties and did so out of self interest / defence.

  46. Paul has convinced me that we should pull substantial troopers out of Europe. We’re not needed there, and out “self-interest” lies at our Southern Border. Either that or our country can be reimbursed for providing defense.

  47. Paul, rest assured that America will not come running in this time to rescue Europe from Muslim fundamentalism.

    (I say this sadly. I love Western culture and I think most good in the world came from British colonialism and exported law and order and sense of fairness. )

  48. Charles

    It isnt Europe that is raising this argument in this transactional way

    Hitler Foolishly declared war on the United States, not the other way around. When we ( and the British and Canadians and others) landed on D Day, We were not only acting to liberate Europe, we were acting in self-defense

    None of this alliance has ever been a one-way street.

    And I say that as somebody who has always felt that the Europeans should pay more.

    And how come the usual suspects never once will say that Israel, a rich country, should pay more for its defense?

  49. We also should stop funding the UN troops.

  50. And I say that as somebody who has always felt that the Europeans should pay more.

    That really is the crux of this brotherly row.

  51. Patty –

    Yes. Under the US umbrella, Western Europe has become flabby, decadent and complacent about defence.

  52. Europe = the 30 year-old kid in his parents’ basement playing video games, refusing to look for a job.

  53. Charles

    I think that his negotiating style is grossly incompetent, And that it guarantees a bad result

    He doesn’t know what he’s doing

  54. Paul, rest assured that America will not come running in this time to rescue Europe from Muslim fundamentalism

    This time? Patty, you really need to catch yourself on my dear.

    Anyway, as it was US actions which largely gave rise to Muslim fundamentalism you probaly owe it to the world to combat it.

  55. United States, until Trump = self-involved parents living large, ignoring the kid in the basement because they don’t have to see or hear him much

  56. “you probaly owe it to the world to combat it:” said the 30 year old kid (Europe) in the basement to his parents (America).

  57. Pete, flabby, decadent and complacent really is no way to talk on a Trump thread.

  58. Patty, don’t you worry your pretty little head about Europe my dear.

  59. The US ( Carter, Reagan ) armed the fundamentalists big time, And all US administration’s, including this one case of the feet of the Saudi’s

    And by attacking the wrong country, GW Bush and Blair unleashed the demons throughout the Middle East

  60. Noel –

    Eurostat claims that Germany is importing far more oil and gas from Russia.

    http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=File:Share_(%25)_of_Russia_in_national_extra-EU_imports_of_each_Member_State,_2017,_in_value_updated.png

  61. “don’t you worry your pretty little head about Europe my dear.”

    I’m not – maybe 10 years ago when you all had a chance to fight it but it’s too late now. Just makes me sad.

    MAGA! America First!

  62. MAGA!!

  63. I think I see you about 12 countries that buy as much as a share from Russia or more than Germany does

    All the countries on that side of Europe buy gas from Russia

  64. //What US blood has been spilled ‘defending’ Europe since 1945? //

    Paul, because there was no conflict, not least due to the presence of US troops.

    But whenever things heated up in the cold war, like the defence of Berlin in 1948/49, US troops moved in and some were killed.

    There were also some Americans killed in the Bosnian war, I believe.

    //rest assured that America will not come running in this time to rescue Europe from Muslim fundamentalism. //

    What on earth are you talking about, how could America rescuse Europe from Muslim fundamentalism?

    Muslim fundamentalism, insofar as it’s a threat to anything in Europe, is not an external threat. If it were only outside, nobody would care about it, and because it’s inside no foreign country, like the US, could do anything about it even if it wanted to.

    //I did not know that Ex chancellor Shroeder was head of the Russian oil pipe line company. What corruption!
    What lies we have been told! //

    Nobody is telling you lies (about this), Patty. That Schroeder is head of Gazprom has been known and widely publicised ever since he joined.

    But probably Fox News and all those radio madmen didn’t report it.

  65. Just you stick to the Caligirl art and poetry and leave the things beyond meaningless slogans like history and politics to the grown ups, pet.

  66. Noel, that’s a well thought out analysis!

  67. There were also some Americans killed in the Bosnian war, I believe

    Noel, that was a UN operation against genocide rather than some ‘defence of Europe’

    The attitude of some of the Americans here to the hundreds of Euros who have needlessly died fighting US wars in Kuwait, Afghanistan and Iraq smacks heavily of a ‘cannon fodder, fuck them’ mentality which I suspect extends beyond Euro soldiers.

  68. //Eurostat claims that Germany is importing far more oil and gas from Russia.//

    Pete, the percentage in your link is the share of German energy imports from Russia in relation to imports from the rest of the non-EU world, so obviously that figure is going to be higher than the share in relation to the whole world. Germany buys a lot of energy from SE Europe and probably from the UK too.

    I came across my figures during work and from a non-political source (usually more reliable). They were correct at least a year or two ago; but of course German energy imports are bound to increase as the new pipeline is developed more and the country moves further away from nuclear energy.

    The point is that Germany is in no way dependent on Russia – not in general and not even for energy imports. All its energy could be sourced elsewhere in the world markets.
    If you want to see more dependence, look to Poland, but of course Trump wouldn’t complain about that country.

  69. Paul

    Bosnia could easily have spiraled into a larger conflict

    That Intervention was both moral and a defense of the neighboring nations

  70. I just wonder, Paul, if Western Europe has any survival instinct left at all?

    What’s with the civilizational suicide that we are witnessing?

    What happened to England? Have you no pride? No pride at all in what you gave to the world with your colonialism? Look at all the countries that are thriving now that were once British colonies…obviously, Britain culture and values has something very good about it…and many of you seem anxious to just throw it out the window….what’s up with that?

  71. Patty, your pissing in Paul’s Guinness. He’s Irish you know!

  72. Noel –

    Poland’s dependence is a historical consequence of socialist imperialism. It’s something they’re trying to get away from. Therefore it opposes Nord Stream 2 on economic and security grounds.

    Merkel of course waves aside their objections. European solidarity goes out the window when Germany puts Germany first.

  73. That Intervention was both moral and a defense of the neighboring nations

    It wasn’t Phantom, it was a civil war in the wake of the break up of the former FRY but yes, it was highly moral and humankind should be grateful to all who intervened in the slaughter.

    If Bill Clinton deserves praise for anything it was for giving the okay to bomb communication infrastructure in Belgrade.

    I just wonder, Paul, if Western Europe has any survival instinct left at all?

    Just you go back to your artist easel and pretty words and let us who know what we’re talking about to worry about western Euro.

  74. //What happened to England? Have you no pride? No pride at all in what you gave to the world with your colonialism? Look at all the countries that are thriving now that were once British colonies…obviously, Britain culture and values has something very good about it//

    Patty, Paul is Irish, and our country – at least population-wise – still hasn’t recovered from the disaster of centuries of British rule.

  75. What happened to England? Have you no pride? No pride at all in what you gave to the world with your colonialism? Look at all the countries that are thriving now that were once British colonies

    Absolutely, Patty. Well said. The British Empire was the best thing that happened to an undeserving world. But it would be rude to leave out the Irish. Many an Irish buccaneer helped build the Empire and had fun doing it. They don’t like to mention it now, but they’ve been cowed.

  76. If Bill Clinton deserves praise for anything it was for giving the okay to bomb communication infrastructure in Belgrade.

    It’s ok when libs do it.

    NATO bombing of the Radio Television of Serbia headquarters

    List of killed RTS workers

    Aleksandar Deletić (30), cameraman
    Branislav Jovanović (50), master technician
    Darko Stoimenovski (25), visiting technician
    Dejan Marković (39), security worker
    Dragan Tasić (29), electrician
    Dragorad Dragojević (27), security worker
    Ivan Stukalo (33), technician
    Jelica Munitlak (27), make-up artist
    Ksenija Banković (27), vision mixer
    Milan Joksimović (47), security worker
    Milovan Janković (59), precision machinist
    Nebojša Stojanović (26), master technician
    Siniša Medić (32), production designer
    Slaviša Stevanović (32), technician
    Slobodan Jontić (54), director
    Tomislav Mitrović (61), program director

    Praise be to Bill Clinton for killing these people.

  77. The proposed Nord Stream 2 pipeline doesn’t even go through Poland or its waters

    It won’t harm Polish security or it’s economy

    I am a big fan of Poland, but this argument is flawed

  78. Tell Poland’s foreign ministry.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/russia-nord-stream-2-pipeline-should-not-be-built-poland-konrad-szymanski/

  79. Praise be to Bill Clinton for killing these people.

    Strange how you left out the 2011 RTS apology for spreading propaganda that:

    Hurt the feelings, moral integrity and dignity of the citizens of Serbia, humanist-oriented intellectuals, members of the political opposition, critically minded journalists, certain minorities in Serbia, minority religious groups in Serbia, as well as certain neighbouring peoples and states. and enabled genocide

    What happened to England? Have you no pride?

    QED why Patty should stay withe her paintings and poetry when things beyond slogans and soundbites, like Europe are discussed 🙂

    The British Empire was the best thing that happened to an undeserving world

    Well, the English football team tonight probably think so.

  80. How is Germany a captive in Russia? This is a ridiculous thing to say.
    It’s probably already been sorted out in this thread but Germany only buys a proportion of its gas from Russia. 70% of it energy is not supplied by Russia. Where did Trump get this figure from?

  81. Pete

    I am well aware that they oppose it

    The Ukrainians, who had stolen gas from the existing pipeline also oppose it

    Do you oppose it , and why?

    Again, the pipeline will not enter polish territory

    Ukraine will lose revenue ultimately, but Ukraine has been a bad actor As respects pipelines

    And respects this pipeline, it looks like both Russia and Germany are acting well within their rights, That they’re not necessarily being unfair to anybody else. Even his other nations don’t love the pipeline, there is no proper grounds for blocking it

  82. Strange how you left out the 2011 RTS apology for spreading propaganda that:

    Ok Paul. They “spread propaganda” (according to a much later regime), so they deserved to be obliterated by Clinton’s bombs of compassion and truth. As long as we know know your threshold.

    Jelica Munitlak (27), make-up artist – deserved to die.

  83. Phantom –

    Tell it to the Polish foreign ministry. They set out their argument in the link.

    Do you oppose it , and why?

    If it’s another chink which helps split apart the EU then I’m all for it.

  84. Pete Moore, on July 11th, 2018 at 3:18 PM Said:

    You have to admire the instant ease with which commies flip the narrative.

    Russia is a monster, they tell us. It meddles in elections. It tipped the referendum toward Brexit. It’s permanently diddling with our computers and infrastructure. It props up despots and stands poised to invade Eastern Europe.

    It’s much worse than that:

    https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2018/07/10/the-view-of-russia-in-the-west-paul-craig-roberts/

    The upcoming Trump/Putin summit is hampered by the crazed portrait of Russia painted by presstitutes. Jonathan Chait, Amy Knight, Max Bergmann, Yaroslav Trofimov, Roger Cohen, and the rest of the conscious or de facto CIA assets that comprise the Western presstitute media have turned Putin into a superhuman who controls election outcomes throughout the West, murders people without rhyme or reason, and has President Trump under his thumb doing Putin’s bidding. Who could imagine a more extreme conspiracy theory?

    Jonathan Chait in New York magazine writes that “the dark crevices of the Russia scandal run deep,” so deep that “it would be dangerous not to consider the possibility that the summit is less a negotiation between two heads of state than a meeting between a Russian-intelligence asset and his handler.”

    http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/07/trump-putin-russia-collusion.html

    Leftist media are utterly insane and, although I disagree with Trump on this matter, he ensures that the loonies reveal themselves.

  85. Russia under Putin is a bad actor

    No same actor on these pages have said otherwise

    That doesn’t mean that other countries shouldn’t be allowed to trade with it

  86. As long as we know know your threshold.

    Ohhhhh, you’re so all warm and humane Pete.

    Ballymurphy Massacre anyone?

  87. The demonization of Russia will increase

    https://www.rt.com/business/432375-russia-south-africa-farmers/

    A delegation of 30 South African farming families has arrived in Russia’s farmbelt Stavropol Region, Rossiya 1 TV reports. The group says it is facing violent attacks and death threats at home.

    Up to 15,000 Boers, descendants of Dutch settlers in South Africa, are planning to move to Russia amid rising violence stemming from government plans to expropriate their land, according to the delegation

    This is superb news and it shows that Putin is seeing the threat to whites everywhere: the entire Afrikaner population won’t be far behind. Soon, in the manner of Catherine the Great, ethnic Germans will be invited to Russia so that even when Germany is turned into a shithole, Germans will survive.

  88. “….our country – at least population-wise – still hasn’t recovered from the disaster of centuries of British rule.”

    oh please, Noel….give it up. You are too literate to be this backwards thinking. Move on. Get over
    “British rule.” It’s ridiculous to cling so tightly to something so over. Admit that the Magna Carta was not such a bad thing.

    besides, Britain is quickly becoming Muslim – in case you hadn’t noticed.

  89. Wow this thread is the perfect example of how clueless and uninterested the trumpatistas are in how the world actually works instead it’s all about brain dead repetition of mistaken propaganda

    Pete Moore are you just taking the piss ?

  90. EP, explain of you’re able to.

  91. No body contributes cash to NATO not even the knew knighted states of the Klu Klux Klan

    The KKSKKK spends so much of their own money on defense because they wish to project, protect and extend American hegemony

    Trample has no interest in American hegemony for some reason but it explains his capitulation on the Paris Accords and TPP to name just a few of his abdications

    The really curious thing is his fascination with https://imgur.com/a/wQbn1, that’s the part that should worry trumpatistas

  92. Britain’s Muslim population is probably 5%. Hardly becoming Muslim.

  93. What was the population 10 years ago or 25 years ago?

    What are the trends

  94. Mahons, that 5% too many, In My Racist Opinion!

    EP, to this Murican, what’s good for the Dow is good for the country. It provides market capitalization to grow companies.

  95. Phantom – the population has grown in that period, but it has hardly turned the UK Muslim.

  96. Demographics are destiny.

  97. Charles – Someone had a similar opinion of Jews.

  98. Ouch!

  99. Someone had a similar opinion of Jews.

    Palestinians still do, and some people want to five them a state.

  100. Here are some demographics…….

    http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=58672

    A writer for the world’s richest man at The Washington Post celebrated July 4th by highlighting a town in Texas which is a model city for open borders advocates.

    From The Washington Post, ‘An all-American city that speaks Spanish’: Immigration isn’t a problem for this Texas town — it’s a way of life:

    But when people are replaced by others, things are not the same…..

  101. Allan, that’s interesting. I’ve never been to McAllen, but it sounds like every other border town, maybe excluding El Paso. But even here, Hispanic is 75% of the population.
    We have the army base, which brings people in from all over the world, and a lot of military have retired here, which makes up the other 25%.

    In places like McAllen, the small white population usually owns all of the farmland and does quite well. The rest of the population is all on government assistance to some extent.

    The Mexicans, I must say, are easy to live around. They are quiet, hard-working, proud people, but very poor. Many don’t have running water or toilet facilities.

  102. McAllen is just like Mexico then – but with government aid?

  103. with government aid and without the lawlessness. At least American jurisprudence still prevails here. Even El Paso county is the 6th poorest county in the state. If we didn’t have Fort Bliss and all the Federal work it brings in, we would dry up and blow away like the dust.

  104. Berlin has a record of chumming up to the Russians

    But so have you Pete.

    You claim that Putin is a friend of the west, but when the Germans follow your logic and prostrate themselves to Rusian gas you switch sides and channel Trumpo who suddenly claims to be worried by this.

    LOL

  105. The Mexicans, I must say, are easy to live around. They are quiet, hard-working, proud people

    New York City didn’t used to have many Mexicans, but we Have them now

    Charles’ Description of them would be accurate to describe the Mexicans we see up here. They are cheerful, quiet, family oriented, And will outwork your average Fat dumb and happy white or black American any day of the week

    Some right wing types will say that Mexicans refuse to learn English, Which appears to be completely untrue to me, They try to learn it as fast as they can, because they know that is the key to success. You see their 12-year-old kids walking down the street speaking English with hardly any accent. They are on the little rungs of the latter in ny now, but I predict that they will rise over the next decades

  106. Low Rungs

  107. Paul

    What US blood has been spilled ‘protecting’ Europe since 1945 Pat? There has however been quite a considerable quantity of European blood spilled assisting US invasions and fighting their subsequent wars.

    We lost a lot of people during the cold war and any nation that joined us in our forays did so of their own free will.

    Bottom line is only 5 out of 24 NATO nations are paid up. It is not our job 70yrs after WWII to still be protecting people in Europe.

    NATO is not crucial to the defense of the US our weapons (non-nuclear) can hit Russian and any nations military assets from both the continental US and the Sea without putting a single troop on the ground.

    Germany has no military, Germany getting 70% of it’s Fuel from the “enemy” is just stupid. It also effects NATO and the US the thousands of troops we have in Germany all our bases and hardware are forced also to rely on that supply which is unacceptable at the very least we should move ALL our troops and hospital out of Germany to a nation that is not sleeping with the enemy.

  108. Since putin owns the Whitehouse who exactly is this enemy Germany sleeping with?

  109. //Germany has no military, Germany getting 70% of it’s Fuel from the “enemy” is just stupid. It also effects NATO//

    Patrick, the first bit of that is not true, the second bit is not true either, and the third bit is wrong spelling.

    How come every time Trump makes mistakes, I think of you and why you support him`? 🙂

    //ALL our troops and hospital out of Germany to a nation that is not sleeping with the enemy.//

    Not sleeping with the enemy? Who’s that?

    You already stated above that the troops should be moved to Poland, and I already pointed out that Poland is infinitely more dependent on Russian energy than Germany is.

  110. We lost a lot of people during the cold war and any nation that joined us in our forays did so of their own free will.

    Pat, how many of these died ‘in defence of Europe?’

    http://www.americancoldwarvets.org/cold-war-casualties

    There have been many, many, many Euro soldiers died in American invasions and subsequent wars that had absolutely nothing to do with them. Trump should remember that next time he wants to shout about price and remember payment takes more than financial form.

  111. Emerald Pimpernel, on July 12th, 2018 at 5:46 AM Said:

    Since putin owns the Whitehouse…….

    If here are people who are stupid enough to believe that then there are people who are stupid enough to believe that if the most dangerous nerve agent in the world were smeared on a door handle and that anybody were to touch it, he/she could go into town, have a meal and a few drinks then, three hours later, be found incapacitated on a park bench.

  112. Since Soros owns the European Parliament…….

    https://legacy.gscdn.nl/archives/images/soroskooptbrussel.pdf

    The mapping results of the study entitled “Reliable Allies in the European Parliament (2014-2019)”, reveal that Sweden tops all lists, as the country most loyal to the core values of corruption specialist George Soros.

    Ireland and Finland also scored high marks (second and third place respectively) with 54.5 and 53.8 percent of MEPs given the dubious title of Soros “loyalists.”

    On the opposite side of the Soros loyalty list are the countries of Eastern Europe.

    The Czech Republic, Lithuania and Hungary (Soros’ birth nation) received low marks in the Soros loyalty check list, with only 2 of 21, 1 of 11 and 1 of 21, Soros loyalists among the European Parliament.

  113. Pat, how many of these died ‘in defence of Europe?’

    http://www.americancoldwarvets.org/cold-war-casualties

    There have been many, many, many Euro soldiers died in American invasions and subsequent wars that had absolutely nothing to do with them. Trump should remember that next time he wants to shout about price and remember payment takes more than financial form.

    Every last one of them Paul….. because the coldwar was between west and east NOT just America vs Soviet…. or were you on the Soviet side of the Wall… the Cold War was a WORLD WAR.

    And as I said before every nation that joined us in anything else did so of their own volition. We didn’t conscript ANYONE

  114. Oh don’t bollocks.

    A US pilot shot down in Korea was ‘defending Europe?’

    The Euro soldiers that fought and died in American invasions and wars that had nothing to do with them were fulfilling a defence alliance pact. Funny, before this guy Trump came on the scene I can never remember you taking such an ambivalent attitude to their deaths in your many years defending those invasions / wars

  115. I don’t have an ambivalent attitude to their deaths, I said their nations voluntarily joined with us. That joining is appreciated and honored.

    What is NOT honored are the majority of the nations SIGNED COMMITMENT to their OWN defense by paying what they should in NATO.

    Charles V Payne

    Germany spent $222 billion subsidizing renewable energy from 2000 to 2017 while its declining defense spending has led to a military that’s frighteningly unprepared to defend the country. One could argue American taxpayers paid for a lot of German windmills & solar farms.

  116. Argument 1: NATO is now useless.

    Argument 2: European states should pay into Nato.

    No wonder these people identify with someone like Trump.

  117. I don’t have an ambivalent attitude to their deaths, I said their nations voluntarily joined with us. That joining is appreciated and honored.

    Good, then pipe down and let’s have a bit of respect for the hundreds and hundreds of Euro families whose members died because of US wars

    What is NOT honored are the majority of the nations SIGNED COMMITMENT to their OWN defense by paying what they should in NATO

    This is what was agreed:

    https://money.cnn.com/2017/05/25/news/nato-funding-explained-trump/index.html

    As for Britain, maybe it won’t be in NATO for too long after today 🙂

    https://www.facebook.com/TheIndependentOnline/videos/10156226573456636/

  118. Chris Wallace of Fox News announces that he will interview Putin after the summit. He will be the only Western Journalist to be able to do so.

    I think that Phantom would agree with me that Chris Wallace is as straight an arrow as they come, in what he calls a “no holds barred” interview with the Russian leader.

    http://insider.foxnews.com/2018/07/12/chris-wallace-interview-vladimir-putin-monday-after-trump-summit

  119. Yes.

    Chris Wallace is the real thing.

  120. Chris Wallace, will be come prepared, will be unfailingly polite, and will ask good questions, including tough ones.

    He is the son of the late, great Mike Wallace of CBS/60 Minutes fame, a legendary, confrontational interviewer ( see link, where the dad interviewed Putin and asked him tough questions )

  121. If this guy’s reputation is as sound as you guys say it is I’ll look forward to seeing the interview.

  122. Yes Paul, and it airs 16 July.

  123. Charles’ Description of them would be accurate to describe the Mexicans we see up here. They are cheerful, quiet, family oriented, And will outwork your average Fat dumb and happy white or black American any day of the week

    There’s a dichotomy here between those in the description and the reality of the source of those in the description. Mexico is effectively a failed state whose corrupt politicians see the solution as being to send its people into the US by any means. If Mexicans were better than Americans, then Mexico would be better than the US – but it isn’t.

  124. Allan

    You have a racial dislike of Mexicans. That’s fine. Enjoy it.

    None of the Americans here would share that view.

    Mexico has always had a corrupt power structure, dirty cops, etc.

    But the consumption by Americans of illegal drugs is the root cause of much of the problems that exist in Mexico with gang violence etc. Any American, Canadian ( or European ) who buys illegal drugs owns part of that problem. They supply the fuel to the problem.

  125. Phantom, on July 12th, 2018 at 5:21 PM Said:

    He is the son of the late, great Mike Wallace of CBS/60 Minutes fame……

    Ah yes – and Mike gave the game away. Here he is interviewing Morgan Freeman

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeixtYS-P3s

    Wallace – a good Scottish name

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wallace_(surname)

    Wallace is a Scottish surname derived from the Anglo-Norman French waleis, which is in turn derived from a cognate of the Old English wylisc (pronounced “wullish”) meaning “foreigner” or “Welshman”

  126. Phantom – there’s no escaping the fact that if Mexicans were better than Americans, and you claim that they are, then Mexico would be better than the US and self-evidently it is not, unless you also claim that it is. It’s nothing to do with my opinions etc. – although I’m right

  127. All I know is that there are plenty of Americans lying in bed at home watching Jerry Springer all day when Mexicans are working hard at fruit markets, restaurants, construction, etc

    Probably the huge majority of field agricultural work would be done by Mexicans or other Latins, because Americans are too lazy to do it.

    This isn’t something that you have any personal knowledge of, but all or most of the Americans here would know it to be true.

  128. Phantom – who did the agricultural jobs before Mexicans came and did these jobs (because they’re cheaper)? How did the US manage to feed itself before Mexicans came to save them?

    This has a mirror in the UK. Most of the agricultural jobs are now done by east Europeans but prior to the arrival en masse of Czechs, Poles etc. the crops didn’t lie in the fields and rot. What happened was that the natives – locals from the farming areas – picked the strawberries and raspberries in July/August, and the potatoes in October. It kept locals busy, instilled a work ethic in the schoolkids by rewarding them for hard work, and gave housewives supplemental income.

    I know this because I was one of those who did all that seasonal farm work for ten years. Now that vital rite of passage into the world of work has gone, for locals anyway. I want it back, and Americans should get it back too.

  129. Phantom – who did the agricultural jobs before Mexicans came and did these jobs (because they’re cheaper)? How did the US manage to feed itself before Mexicans came to save them?

    Well in the case at point, (Texas), I think it was because it was part of Spain / Mexico before the US which probably explains the Chicano ‘replacement’

  130. I would have done that field work as a summer job when at school. Probably would have been fun.

    Very many white and black Americans now feel that they’re too good for that very hard work now.

    Very many Americans and Brits are soft, flabby, lazy. Look around.

    Why do you think I always mention sedentary lifestyle as a huge driver of obesity.

  131. Allan

    It’s not an unusual phenomenon that people that come from corrupt states do personally well when they come to the Unites States and work under our fairly “clean” system. The problem is that they sometimes only understand corruption and try to operate that way here. For instance bribery is common in El Paso politics, b/c that’s they way it’s done in Mexico.

  132. The average ” peasant ” from rural Mexico had nothing at all to do with that nation’s corrupt power structure. And he didn’t create the demand for drugs that fueled the gangs- the pot smokers and cocaine takers of the US and Canada did.

    Don’t blame the peasant – blame your next door neighbor who buys illegal drugs from criminals.

  133. My very first job was shoveling shit at the police horse stables.

    and Phantoms 10:49 is right on the money

  134. My very first job was shoveling shit at the police horse stables.,,, I was 10

  135. Don’t blame the peasant – blame your next door neighbor who buys illegal drugs from criminals.

    Not me. I live in a respectable area. Leftists and immigrants do drugs, and we keep that type out of the village at gunpoint.

  136. You’d be surprised.

    The police, the clergy, doctors, are not immune from any of this.

  137. Drugs are in every neighborhood you just aren’t looking

  138. Some of the heaviest users are kids in the posh suburbs. They have the money to buy it, easy.

    In the US, I think that rural America still has a worse opioid problem than the cities do.

    And a lot of users wear nice clothes and have very respectable jobs.

    https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/3kanzw/the-secret-lives-of-functioning-heroin-users

    Even in jest, don’t say that there are no illegal drugs near you. Unless you’re on a desert island, they’re near you alright.

  139. Phantom –

    The commie enclaves of London and New York are undoubtedly awash with degenerate leftists in suits. They are bright enough to have jobs but not bright enough to make the link between their drug use and its consequences in primitive countries. Like Mexico.

    But I can assure you there are no leftists on my village. It’s a respectable place.

  140. My very first job was shoveling shit at the police horse stables.,,, I was 10

    I took my nephew out to the horse pens at my mother-in-law’s farm and I paid him minimum wage to clean out horse shit. We lasted about 2 hours. He called me on the fact that at lunch the next day that I tipped the waiter more than I had given him for 1/4th the work.

    “Now you’re learning!” I said.

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