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Elections have consequences

By Patrick Van Roy On September 15th, 2018

Unless of course you’re a Democrat.

The Democrats have a very long history of conspiring with America’s enemies against political opponents. Ted Kennedy went to the USSR to negotiate with them to undermine Reagan.  Nancy Pelousi went to Syria and other State Sponsors of Terror during Bush’s Presidency.

It doesn’t just stop there, Hillary Clinton reached out to the Russians to create a false collusion case against Trump as we now know.

The latest however is John Kerry. The “FORMER” Secretary of State has apparently been travelling to Iran to negotiate with the Mad Mullahs to wait out the Trump Administration. Kerry admitted his negotiations:

Mr. President, you should be more worried about Paul Manafort meeting with Robert Mueller than me meeting with Iran’s FM. But if you want to learn something about the nuclear agreement that made the world safer, buy my new book, Every Day Is Extra:

No Mr. Kerry you are a) Breaking the Law, and b) Engaging in acts of what should be described as Treason as you work AGAINST the interest of the United States.

The above statement was in response to The Presidents tweet.

John Kerry had illegal meetings with the very hostile Iranian Regime, which can only serve to undercut our great work to the detriment of the American people. He told them to wait out the Trump Administration! Was he registered under the Foreign Agents Registration Act? BAD!

Which he made after Kerry admitted in an interview that he has been meeting with the Mad Mullahs to prepare them for when Trump is gone.  During an appearance on Hugh Hewitt’s radio show on Wednesday, Kerry acknowledged meeting with Iranian Foreign Minister Javad Zarif “three or four times” since leaving office, admitting to discussing the scrapped nuclear deal and other issues.

He should be arrested and charged with Treason.

117 Responses to “Elections have consequences”

  1. //Nancy Pelousi went to Syria ..during Bush’s Presidency…..//

    //John Kerry. The “FORMER” Secretary of State has apparently been travelling to Iran//

    It’s disgraceful how these Democrats use the influence Syria and Iran enjoy in Washington to undermine their opponents.

  2. I know you’re trying your hand at sarcasm Noel, but you fall short.

  3. If John Kerry has broken the law then surely he will be arrested and prosecuted. If he isn’t then either the claim that he is a traitor is a fraud or America’s law enforcers are asleep on the job. Which is it ?

  4. They are asleep on the job.

  5. They arrested Gen Flynn for talking to the Russians while he was the INCOMING secretary of state.

    They charged him with Lying to the FBI but the charge originated from him doing his job. The FBI accused him of violating the Logan Act and created a kerfuffle that destroyed his life.

    Kerry is actually violating the Logan Act, Flynn never did…. it’s selective application of the Law.

  6. “Kerry is actually violating the Logan Act”

    It is also most impossible to convict using the Logan Act Patrick. Which is why, despite being passed in 1799 no one, not a single person, has ever been convicted using it (including Michael Flynn). And Kerry is no more violating it than the 47 Republican Senators who sent a letter to the Iranian Government in 2015.

    Will those 47 Senators or former Senators be prosecuted?

    “He should be arrested and charged with Treason.”

    In what way is it treason?

  7. Those 47 Senators were trying to subvert US policy.

    But that does not excuse what John Kerry has been up to

  8. Not trying to excuse what John Kerry did. I’m calling Patrick out on his over the top nonsense. If John Kerry deserves to be prosecuted so do those Senators.

  9. Yep

  10. Imagine if you got your news solely from ATW.

  11. They arrested and convicted Flynn for lying to the FBI

    You can’t keep making things up

  12. Imagine if you got your news solely from ATW.

    Or Fox.

    Oh wait…

  13. This is a lame attempt to distract from the Manafort news. I don’t think Mr. Mueller will be so distracted, rather I think he will vigorously pursue the information Manafort is bound to reveal to the logical conclusion.

  14. Lol I seen a meme that went

    Mueller: doing more to reduce the deficit then congrss, the Senate and the Whitehouse combined!

    Since so far he has returned a net positive to the government

  15. The Logan Act is a pure bullshit Law Seamus, that didn’t stop them from going after Flynn with it during the transition. In the questioning of him about the got him on a trumped up charge and ruined his life.

    So if you want to say foul tell crooked cops James Comey, and Andrew McCabe it was bullshit.

    John Kerry could be charged with Treason.

    He is actively advising a Terrorist sponsoring state on how to work around sanctions being put on them to prevent them from making a Nuclear Bomb. As a FORMER Secretary of State he has access Top Secret information.

    He is not acting on behalf of the American Government, or American People. He is acting for a subversive group of Americans that aren’t happy about the choice the American Public made for President.

    Trump won the Election. He is the President, just because this group disagrees with his view they have NO LEGAL AUTHORITY to Undermine the United States of America, because that is what they are doing. To actively do so with a foreign Government a government that is on the Terror List to boot IS TREASON.

  16. NYr lets look at the Manafort News shall we.

    Manafort PLEAD GUILTY TO TAX EVASION, FRAUD AND BEING AN UNREGISTERED FOREIGN AGENT WHILE HE WAS WORKING WITH THE PODESTA BROTHERS AND THE DEMOCRATS……

    Now if you think that’s going to hurt Trump in any way god bless ya, and have another drink.

  17. The Democrats have a very long history of conspiring with America’s enemies

    Iran-Contra?

  18. The Democrats have a very long history of conspiring with America’s enemies

    Nixon and the North Vietnamese?

  19. First off the Contra’s were not our enemy and that was a covert op that got exposed.

    The Democrats on their own have openly gone against republican administrations to undermine the result of elections and advance their own agenda….

    I guess the difference is beyond you.

  20. Are you really that stupid Peter?

    That’s a real question…… Nixon was the President of the United States he wasn’t going against the policies of an Elected Democrat… He was engaging in his freaking job.

    Do you really not understand that it is THE CURRENT PRESIDENT that makes foreign Policy NOT the People and Party that LOST…..

  21. Phantom, on September 15th, 2018 at 3:48 PM Said: Edit Comment
    They arrested and convicted Flynn for lying to the FBI

    You can’t keep making things up

    What were they questioning him about….? Oh wait that’s right for violating the Logan Act and COLLUDING with Russia…..

  22. Mahons, on September 15th, 2018 at 3:44 PM Said: Edit Comment
    Imagine if you got your news solely from ATW.

    or the NYT

  23. That’s a real question…… Nixon was the President of the United States he wasn’t going against the policies of an Elected Democrat… He was engaging in his freaking job.

    Patrick

    Your ignorance never ceases to astound, but I suppose I should be used to it by now. Traitor Nixon sabotaged Johnson’s peace initiave BEFORE he was elected and cost thousands of American soldiers their lives:

    “Richard M. Nixon always denied it: to David Frost, to historians and to Lyndon B. Johnson, who had the strongest suspicions and the most cause for outrage at his successor’s rumored treachery. To them all, Nixon insisted that he had not sabotaged Johnson’s 1968 peace initiative to bring the war in Vietnam to an early conclusion. “My God. I would never do anything to encourage” South Vietnam “not to come to the table,” Nixon told Johnson, in a conversation captured on the White House taping system.

    Now we know Nixon lied. A newfound cache of notes left by H. R. Haldeman, his closest aide, shows that Nixon directed his campaign’s efforts to scuttle the peace talks, which he feared could give his opponent, Vice President Hubert H. Humphrey, an edge in the 1968 election. On Oct. 22, 1968, he ordered Haldeman to “monkey wrench” the initiative.”

    https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/31/opinion/sunday/nixons-vietnam-treachery.html

  24. First off the Contra’s were not our enemy

    But Iran was, and still is. Bolton is itching to attack it as you know.

  25. Yeah Peter and GH Bush flew to Iran in a Blackbird and Negotiated with the Iranians about the Hostages……

    There were actual hearings on that fairy tale.

    and I’m sorry both Halderman and the NYTs have zero credibility. And neither does Farrell who wrote a book about how evil Nixon was.

  26. Reagan sold lethal arms to our enemy in order to aid terrorist murderers

  27. and sometimes that’s what Presidents do…..

    but it is their decision NOT the decision of those that lost.

  28. It is not their decision

    They are not dictators

    Reagan should have been impeached for that

  29. and I’m sorry both Halderman and the NYTs have zero credibility. And neither does Farrell who wrote a book about how evil Nixon was.

    ROFL

    Trickey Dickey still has his zombie fan club.

  30. Reagan should have been impeached for that

    Absolutely Phantom, but see how the GOP goons like Patrick whitewash it all away. Nixon and Reagan are seen as patriots and that gives them a total bye-ball on treason. Trump is the same, he will never be impeached even if it gets proved that he is Putin’s bitch.

  31. That was a covert op that got exposed

    So that makes it alright then?

    Reagan sold lethal arms to our enemy in order to aid terrorist murderers

    Selling arms to an enemy? Wouldn’t that be treason too then?

  32. Wouldn’t that be treason too then?

    Not if it’s a GOP POTUS. They get a bye-ball because they are “patriots”.

    If it was a Dem POTUS it would be treason because they are “traitors”.

  33. “NYr lets look at the Manafort News shall we.” The news is that he is fully cooperating on a range of matters which neither of us know. Do you think Manafort will not be asked about the Trump tower meeting with the Russian operative?

  34. Pat reads Fox news Bull, Pat eats said Bull,
    Pat posts Bull on ATW,
    no-one on ATW buys Bull.
    Await next thread !

  35. Reagan is a Christ figure to these guys. They see no flaws, they worship his farts, while misunderstand half the things he actually stood for

    Nixon was way more complicated than people think. His opening to China was good for the world.

    He started the Environmental Protection Adminiatration, which has done great good.

    His proposals on health care were interesting, and were somewhat similar to what Democrats now want. Senator Kennedy stupidly did not support those proposals, wanting to go further, allowing the perfect to be the enemy of the good, a mistake that Kennedy regretted all his days.

    Watergate was wrong, but I will point out that the Democrats broke into Nixon’s office when he was a California congressman. He learned “ Watergate “ from them.

  36. Nixon and Reagan were the two greatest Presidents of the Last Century.

    Reagan would not have been able to achieve the Foreign Policy victory he led us to without Nixon’s foreign policy being there first.

  37. New Yorker, on September 15th, 2018 at 10:39 PM Said: Edit Comment
    “NYr lets look at the Manafort News shall we.” The news is that he is fully cooperating on a range of matters which neither of us know. Do you think Manafort will not be asked about the Trump tower meeting with the Russian operative?

    You mean the one the Hillary Camp setup through Fusion GPS? The one Jr was involved in? That nothing burger?

    NYr the only collusion that took place with the Russians was done by both the Clinton Campaign and the FBI, both through the British spy Christopher Steel.

    You’re not just drinking the kool aid, you’re brewing it.

  38. Paul McMahon, on September 15th, 2018 at 10:17 PM Said: Edit Comment
    That was a covert op that got exposed

    So that makes it alright then?

    Reagan sold lethal arms to our enemy in order to aid terrorist murderers

    Selling arms to an enemy? Wouldn’t that be treason too then?

    yes that makes it alright. The objective was a to be a benefit to the United States. Back then we had no problem selling to terrorists as long as they were terrorists hitting people we didn’t like.

    Second Obama sold Arms to ISIS in Syria and it was arranged by St. McCain. Turkey was the middle man and it took place in a place you might have heard of called Benghazi, but what difference does it make? That deal only cost us the life of an Ambassador and 3 contractors.

    Like I said it’s what Presidents do.

  39. In his unique, cynical way, Nixon was a bit of an idealist. Who had few illusions about how the world actually was.

    He was a better man than his harshest critics were, the Dems who waved the bony finger of moralism at him.

    “ Watergate does not bother me; does your conscience bother you?” as they said in the great song.

  40. Obama did not sell any arms to any ISIS.

    It does you no credit to parrot that idiotic Alex Jones bullshit

  41. Back then we had no problem selling to terrorists as long as they were terrorists hitting people we didn’t like.

    Selling arms to terrorists? Wouldn’t that make the US a ‘rogue state?’

    I didn’t ask about Obama or Benghazi. This is what I asked:

    Reagan sold lethal arms to our enemy in order to aid terrorist murderers

    Selling arms to an enemy? Wouldn’t that be treason too then?

    If McCain talking to the Iranians is treason surely selling arms to the enemy is definitely treasonous?

  42. Phantom do you know what was going on in Benghazi?

    I don’t read or watch Jones.

    Do you deny that we were getting arms to the “good rebels” in Syria?

    Do you deny that St McCain was involved?

    Do you deny that Turkey was our middleman?

    Where do you think those guns were being funneled through?

    The Ambassador that was killed was a CIA Bagman on loan to State. The hell with Jones you’re lost in a Hillary fantasy. There is no question what we were doing in Benghazi. The only questions about it is why there wasn’t adequate security.

  43. They continued it even after the debacle in Benghazi. While Kerry was in charge.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/25/world/middleeast/arms-airlift-to-syrian-rebels-expands-with-cia-aid.html

  44. McCain wasn’t talking to the Iranians, Kerry was.

    And if it was a sanctioned operation then yes it was Legal, but according to the Hearings held by the Democrats it wasn’t sanctioned it was a rogue operation committed by Col. Oliver North.

  45. McCain wasn’t talking to the Iranians, Kerry was.

    Apologies for confusion, Kerry

    It was a rogue operation committed by Col. Oliver North

    Yes, the spooks call it deniable plausibility.

    Was North charged with treason?

  46. He was charged with everything they could think of…… not much stuck.

  47. You have a number of facts correct, other than the idiotic bullshit We’re sending arms to ISIS ( sometimes you guys say The arms were being sent to Al Qaeda )

    We were sending arms to rebels but there is zero reason To believe that they were being sent to Islamic militants.

    Such statements are to be condemned.

    If we were sending arms to Islamic militants, the Islamic militants who were getting weapons wouldn’t have killed the ambassador and the others

  48. The fish stinks from the head.

    Reagan knew or should have known.

  49. Oliver Laurence North is an American political commentator, television host, military historian, author, and retired United States Marine Corps lieutenant colonel. He was convicted in the Iran–Contra affair of the late 1980s but his convictions were vacated and reversed, and all charges against him dismissed in 1991.

  50. Iran-Contra was a dirty deal. Of that there is no doubt. It was done by an Administration that was in power.

    Not by FORMER members of an Administration that aren’t in power as Kerry is doing.

  51. I don’t like The idea of Kerry speaking with the Iranians now, But we do not know what he is saying to them.

    But Pompeo and Trump are correct in criticizing him

  52. I also do not like Lurch mouthing off at the president, while pumping his book

  53. Iran-Contra was a dirty deal. Of that there is no doubt. It was done by an Administration that was in power.

    Doesn’t that add to the seriousness instead of diminishing it?

  54. Doesn’t that add to the seriousness instead of diminishing it?

    No.

  55. How so?

    An administration in power sells weapons to the enemy and it’s somehow not as bad as former members of an administration talking to members of a hostile government?

  56. An administration working through the CIA or any of our covert ops is doing what needs to be done to protect the interests of the United States.

    That may involve dealing with all sorts of undesirables. We entrust those we elect to make those decisions and act in the nations interest. Our covert operations are authorized to do these things outside of the Country that’s why they exist.

    “We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm.” and arrange for others to do our bidding when need be.

    These may not be facts that we like, but there are times when it is necessary.

    It’s bad enough that we must engage in such things but we expect those we elect to act in our national interest.

    It is unacceptable for PRIVATE parties not ELECTED to make decisions regarding our National Security. Kerry was acting for Private Interests.

  57. “You mean the one the Hillary Camp setup through Fusion GPS? The one Jr was involved in? That nothing burger?” I mean the one that Trump Jr and Manaford had with the Russian operative. Manaford is likely to spill the beans on Jr and Jr turn on dear old dad to save his skin. That meeting led to hacking Dem email and was a key event in the Russian Trump conspiracy designed to steal the 2016 election.

  58. Pat I love your bs factory ya got quite an operation gong on down there.
    Some folks turn that into a cash clow like rash limbo wonder if you might set up as a shock jock
    Got the face for it needs to be a bit redder though make up can fix that though

  59. An administration working through the CIA or any of our covert ops is doing what needs to be done to protect the interests of the United States.

    Eh? Five minutes ago you and the orange one were bad mouthing the CIA and other intell services all over the place.

    It is unacceptable for PRIVATE parties not ELECTED to make decisions regarding our National Security. Kerry was acting for Private Interests.

    A private citizen is free to speak to whoever they wish? If a private citizen talking to representatives of a foreign goernment is treason then an elected administration selling arms to that same government is quadruply treason.

    Pat, the double standards that you set for your political friends and your political foes is breathtaking.

  60. Patrick

    Your arguments would carry more weight if they weren’t skewed by such obvious blind flip flopping determined purely by party bias. President Obama could hardly breath, lift a pen or speak without you insisting he was breaking the law, acting as a dictator, abusing his powers etc etc. yet everything genuinely dodgy done by Nixon or Reagan gets a pass because “They are in power and entitled to do whatever they think right” .

    Again, on the one hand you often here make strong unyielding unambiguous no excuses condemnation of terrorists and those who “wear ski masks and kill women and children ” claiming you have a stronger moral stance on such matters than most others here, but suddenly when confronted with a fact that a US administration gave direct material support to such terrorists that’s perfectly justifiable purely because it was a REPUBLICAN administration and President. You destroy whatever moral plain you stand on with such biased hypocrisy.

  61. I find it odd that none of the 93 US Attorneys or 35,000 FBI agents have taken a single step to indict or arrest this fugitive Kerry. Is he the new Scarlet Pimpernal? Surely if he is guilty of illegal activity as proclaimed they would do something. Or are the people proclaiming that he did something illegal morons?

  62. Kerry says that he isn’t negotiating anything, and that it is the custom for former Secretaries to keep in touch with their foreign counterparts.

    I withdraw my earlier criticism of him on this.

  63. If it is not Treason, one would expect any individual who visited such a country to lose his security clearance.
    In Britain, I went to Russia with one of the first tourist groups after the east bloc broke up, and I was later questioned by our security officials because of my security clearance for work; surely the US has stricter security checks than us, and Kerry was apparently more than a tourist, I would have thought the security services should be interested.

  64. EP

    Why should he lose his security clearance ? As long as he is not revealing classified information and his visit is, as I presume, known to the authorities and is open and above board then he is doing nothing wrong.

  65. EP

    Who said that Kerry has traveled to Iran since leaving office?

    He could have met with the Iranian foreign minister in New York, or other places

  66. “In the questioning of him about the got him on a trumped up charge and ruined his life.”

    Did he or did he not lie to the FBI?

    “He is actively advising a Terrorist sponsoring state on how to work around sanctions being put on them to prevent them from making a Nuclear Bomb.”

    How do you know that is what he was doing? He held a meeting with the Iranian Foreign Minister. He has stated that it was about the Nuclear deal that dear glorious leader recklessly scrapped. How do you know that he was helping them get around sanctions?

    “As a FORMER Secretary of State he has access Top Secret information.”

    And is there any evidence that he misused that information?

    “To actively do so with a foreign Government a government that is on the Terror List to boot IS TREASON.”

    Acting against the interest of the United States would be treason. But first you would need to prove, beyond any reasonable doubt, that acting against Donald Trump is acting against the interest of the United States. Ultimately it could be certainly argued that acting against Donald Trump is acting in the interest of the United States, to protect it against all enemies, foreign or domestic.

    Now again I ask simply…

    Should the 47 Senators or former Senators who opened a dialogue with a foreign, hostile, terrorist supporting government, in an effort to undermine the negotiations of the President of the United States, be prosecuted? And if not, why not?

  67. Googling this story I see this all took place back in May including Trump’s tweets about it. The discussions were held at the UN in New York and involved Kerry talking to Iranian diplomats before Trump announced America’s withdrawal from the deal. I don’t know why Patrick feels the need to post about this now.

  68. It looks like nearly all the details ( where the meeting took place, what was discussed, ) are either wrong or are unsupported.

  69. New Yorker, on September 16th, 2018 at 3:14 AM Said: Edit Comment
    “You mean the one the Hillary Camp setup through Fusion GPS? The one Jr was involved in? That nothing burger?” I mean the one that Trump Jr and Manaford had with the Russian operative. Manaford is likely to spill the beans on Jr and Jr turn on dear old dad to save his skin. That meeting led to hacking Dem email and was a key event in the Russian Trump conspiracy designed to steal the 2016 election.

    NewYorker you poor soul…. you bought the company line hook line and sinker haven’t you? There is nothing for Manaford to flip on the Trumps about. That meeting has been gone over with a fine tooth comb. The female operative they met with was a setup by Fusion GPS the committees already have her phone calls from both before and after the meeting to GPS. The purpose of the meeting was to visually create a meeting between the Trump Campaign and and a russian agent to bolster the GPSs phoney dossier, nothing more. You keep praying though…

    As for the hacking of the DNC servers and emails sorry charlie all that is directly the fault of Hilary Clinton. Whether the servers were hacked or the emails stolen from an inside operative we will never know because the DNC under orders from the Clintons refused to turn the computers over to the FBI they turned them over to a company they hired and them cleaned of all evidence.

    The DNC computers were connected to the Clinton private network which was hacked by at least 5 foreign entities. Two weeks ago it was revealed if you were paying attention that there was a line of code in the Clinton servers that sent a copy of every communication in and out of her server to the Chinese. The DNC servers were also hacked by the Packi Spy that Debbie Washed up Schultz had working for her and half the democrats in congress.

    You see it’s people like you that I feel bad for, because you’ve really not looked into any of this stuff in detail and only have the info fed to you from the echo chamber inside the bubble…. you are going to be so disappointed over the next two years… I feel for you.

  70. Eh? Five minutes ago you and the orange one were bad mouthing the CIA and other intell services all over the place.

    I’ve never bad mouthed the CIA or the FBI. I’ve bad mouthed corrupt individuals from both who over the last election and during the whole Obama Administration operated outside the Law to advance a political agenda. Those individuals do NOT represent the good people that work for both agencies.

    A private citizen is free to speak to whoever they wish? If a private citizen talking to representatives of a foreign goernment is treason then an elected administration selling arms to that same government is quadruply treason.

    Pat, the double standards that you set for your political friends and your political foes is breathtaking.

    Paul you really don’t understand how Government in this arena works.

    No a Private citizen can not go to or talk to certain nations and their representatives without the consent of our government. They especially can not do so in regard to america’s foreign policy.

    The other thing is Laughable. The CIA how to explain the CIA to someone like you. The CIA is not allowed to work inside the United States because everything the CIA does is illegal. They are trained to break the Law. To steal information, to commit sabotage, espionage and even murder. It was only in the Late 70s that they were restricted from assassinating the heads of foreign states.

    Our covert networks are a tool of our elected government to commit mayhem and break the laws of other countries to benefit the US. We the People authorize those we ELECT to use these networks to benefit our country. If that means supplying arms to bad guys that are fighting a regime that we view as an enemy we trust the people we ELECT to make that decision.

    We have control over the people we elect and if need be we can trace who did what and was ordered by who to do it. You can’t have individuals not authorized by our sitting government engaged in negotiations, or committing mayhem in our nations name there is no accountability.

    Look at Iran-Contra it was an op that was deemed illegal. There was an investigation, hearings and prosecutions…. there was accountability. Whatever Kerry is involved in there is no accountability.

    It’s not a double standard it’s command and control.

  71. Why isn’t the President protecting us by having this treasonous Kerry arrested and prosecuted? Does President Trump still love us?

  72. Colm, on September 16th, 2018 at 10:34 AM Said: Edit Comment
    Patrick

    Your arguments would carry more weight if they weren’t skewed by such obvious blind flip flopping determined purely by party bias. President Obama could hardly breath, lift a pen or speak without you insisting he was breaking the law, acting as a dictator, abusing his powers etc etc. yet everything genuinely dodgy done by Nixon or Reagan gets a pass because “They are in power and entitled to do whatever they think right” .

    Again, on the one hand you often here make strong unyielding unambiguous no excuses condemnation of terrorists and those who “wear ski masks and kill women and children ” claiming you have a stronger moral stance on such matters than most others here, but suddenly when confronted with a fact that a US administration gave direct material support to such terrorists that’s perfectly justifiable purely because it was a REPUBLICAN administration and President. You destroy whatever moral plain you stand on with such biased hypocrisy.

    Colm you are confusing many things.

    Obama broke the Laws of the United States DOMESTICALLY, he also took actions DOMESTICALLY that his office was not allowed to do.

    You can scour these pages and you will not find me claiming that Obama arming the Syrian Rebels (ISIS) as being illegal. Even the Benghazi affair, you will find me going off about the operational failure and the cover up but not one word about the legality of arming the rebels.

    The crimes I hold Obama accountable for are the abuse of power DOMESTICALLY. Using the IRS/CIA/NSA/FBI against American citizens here inside the US. I never even complained when American traitors were targeted by drones for death overseas.

    I have repeatedly said show me a domestic crime Trump or any Republican has done inside this country and I will hand out the pitchforks and torches to the villagers.

    The rules regarding what can be done at home and overseas are two totally different sets of rules. The only Law Obama broke in foreign policy was the illegal transfer of 150 Billion Dollars of Cash to the Iranians. Other than that he broke no US Laws in the Foreign arena.

  73. pat seriously have you thought about radio, or is the market a bit crowded ?
    you have a lot to say, all bull as you know i think it is is
    but as we say in the army “bullshit baffles brains” – heard that one before?

  74. As for the rest of the nonsense comments.

    I did this post because the story is in the news now this week. It doesn’t matter where the meetings took place Kerry was not authorized by our government to have them PERIOD end of story..

    Why hasn’t this one been prosecuted or that one etc etc etc. Simple right now we have no functioning DOJ. It is completely tied up with the fake russian collusion case and nothing else will go forward on any prosecutions of the illegality of setting up that fake case or anything else until after the election and it will only happen then if the Republicans maintain control of the House.

    If they lose control no one will be prosecuted.

  75. Radio is my dream Jude.

    I am working on getting a show through our other platform. The radio is however on hold due to internal technical issues.

  76. off to church…. I’ll be back

  77. When did Mr. Kerry Travel to Iran after leaving public service?

    What did you make that one up?

  78. He has a face for radio.

  79. He will be the new “America’s news man “ Talking about the evil Democrats and the patriotic Republicans

  80. He has a face for radio.

    hilarious 🙂 🙂 🙂

  81. “Why hasn’t this one been prosecuted or that one etc”

    I didn’t ask you why they hadn’t been prosecuted. I asked you should they be prosecuted.

    Should the 47 Senators or former Senators who opened a dialogue with a foreign, hostile, terrorist supporting government, in an effort to undermine the negotiations of the President of the United States, be prosecuted? And if not, why not?

  82. I’ve never bad mouthed the CIA or the FBI. I’ve bad mouthed corrupt individuals from both

    I’d suggest that accusing the collective management of the intelligence services of sedition and participation in falsifying information would count as bad mouthing them?

    Patrick Van Roy, on August 16th, 2018 at 1:10 AM Said:

    […] The management of the intelligence services are participants in sedition and participated in falsification of evidence.

  83. “The DNC computers were connected to the Clinton private network which was hacked by at least 5 foreign entities.” How is that related to the hacking of John Podesta’s email?

    You should have disclosed that you attended the Trump tower meeting with the Russian operative.

  84. He has become Allan

  85. no you wish Phantom…..

    Podesta’s emails supposedly were hacked with the DNC hack NYr and we will never know what really happened because the democrats were allowed to refuse turning over their servers to the FBI. The corrupt upper management of the FBI and DOJ allowed the DNC to destroy evidence.

    and yes I DO have a face for Radio 🙂

  86. Paul

    PROOF of the FBI/DOJ/CIA The management of these intelligence services are participants in sedition and participated in falsification of evidence.

    There is no question about this, and calling them out on those FACTS is NOT attacking the hard working agents of any of those organizations.

    If the Republicans maintain control of the House the prosecutions will take place.

  87. Seamus, on September 16th, 2018 at 3:45 PM Said: Edit Comment
    “Why hasn’t this one been prosecuted or that one etc”

    I didn’t ask you why they hadn’t been prosecuted. I asked you should they be prosecuted.

    Should the 47 Senators or former Senators who opened a dialogue with a foreign, hostile, terrorist supporting government, in an effort to undermine the negotiations of the President of the United States, be prosecuted? And if not, why not?

    Seamus the Answer is NO, even though what they did was totally unacceptable because they were/are ELECTED officials they got away with it because they played it off as fact finding missions and to prosecute them for that would be an attempt to undermine elections.

    What they did was a total breach of Protocol but the nothing criminal.

    A Private citizen doing it would be criminal.

  88. The management of these intelligence services are participants in sedition and participated in falsification of evidence.

    So, yet again, you collectively bad mouth the intell agencies which you have denied above?

    An administration working through the CIA or any of our covert ops is doing what needs to be done to protect the interests of the United States.

    Please make your mind up.

  89. So elected officials are above the law? If they had prosecuted Ted Kennedy over Chappaquiddick would that have been an attempt to undermine elections?

  90. No kennedy’s actions were domestic.

  91. Paul are you serious or are you f**king with me?

  92. So?

    Illegal is illegal.

  93. Are you f**king with me?

    Not at all Pat.

    With one comment you state that the CIA or any of the other spooks are doing what needs to be done to protect the interests of the United States whilst in the other suggesthing that they are engaged in sedition and participation in falsification of evidence.

    That’s as contradictory as you saying above that if Republicans maintain control of the House the prosecutions will take place whilst previously claiming that inell services are outside the law.

  94. Paul McMahon, on September 16th, 2018 at 7:22 PM Said: Edit Comment
    The management of these intelligence services are participants in sedition and participated in falsification of evidence.

    So, yet again, you collectively bad mouth the intel agencies which you have denied above?

    Do you really not see the difference?

    Members of the Federal Justice and Intelligence Systems ran an operation against an American Citizen. To compound the crime the person they ran the illegal operation against was a candidate for the Presidency of the United States, the Op was originated for POLITICAL purposes not any infraction of the Law.

    Those actions were committed by Politically motivated members of these agencies Management NOT the rank and file. These members of Management committed multiple crimes DOMESTICALLY in the process of running this Illegal Op. They falsified documents, falsified evidence, lied to Federal FISA Court Judges and members of Congress and committed departmental perjury.

    This is a crime that strikes at the very core of American Society. The Federal Govt under Barack Obama tried to rig a Presidential Election, and when they lost anyway they shit themselves and tried to pin what they were guilty of doing on him.

    As many of these people that we can put away for life we need to do it, period.

    Don’t get yourself all confused about what any of our administrations Republican or Democrat do or have done in other countries and too other countries. Your Laws mean nothing to our intelligence forces. It is their job to violate your laws and not get caught. To do whatever it takes to ensure the result of EVERYTHING falls in favor of American Security or American interest. That is what they are trained to do, which is also why they are NOT ALLOWED to operate on American Soil against American Citizens.

  95. Members of the Federal Justice and Intelligence Systems * ran an operation against an American Citizen. To compound the crime the person they ran the illegal operation against was a candidate for the Presidency of the United States, the Op was originated for POLITICAL purposes not any infraction of the Law.

    * allegedly

    Well, the original comment was the contradiction of how the CIA were great guys working in America’s interests in the shadows while accusing them of sedition and falsification of evidence. That’s a contradictory position and you can’t have in both ways.

    However, you’ve also stated ther’ll be convictions while previously stating that spooks are above the law so the contradictory position really isn’t that surprising.

  96. Well, the original comment was the contradiction of how the CIA were great guys working in America’s interests in the shadows while accusing them of sedition and falsification of evidence. That’s a contradictory position and you can’t have in both ways.

    However, you’ve also stated ther’ll be convictions while previously stating that spooks are above the law so the contradictory position really isn’t that surprising.

    You really don’t get it….

    There are no contradictions in either of my statements Paul.

    First off you refuse to separate a couple of dozen corrupt managers from the hard working agents that lay their lives on the line. Condemning corrupt Bureaucrats is not a condemnation of any of the agencies. These things happens. Sometimes there are dirty cops. No way is that a condemnation of the rest of the people they work with.

    And second you refuse to understand that our intelligence agencies are above the Law for what they do outside of the US, not inside it.

    They are 100% accountable for every action inside the US and zero% accountable to American Courts for what they do outside the country.

    They are accountable to Congress if they get caught and accountable to foreign courts if caught misbehaving on foreign soil while they are still in those countries.

    As in Iran-Contra they got caught and congress held them accountable and that was a black op. What happened with Trump happened inside the country, it was an ILLEGAL operation that took place on American Soil. They are accountable to American Courts.

    Those are the facts of life.

  97. elections do have consequences
    I wonder if NOV will be Trumps last?
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/sep/16/impeachment-trump-manafort-robert-mueller-deal

  98. The Alabama Democratic senator Doug Jones told CNN: “Clearly you have people close to the president of the United States who have committed crimes and that, in and of itself, is a problem. But its not necessarily an impeachable offence

  99. First off you refuse to separate a couple of dozen corrupt managers from the hard working agents that lay their lives on the line

    Pat, you’re attemptingg to move the goalposts. This is what you said:

    The management of these intelligence services are participants in sedition and participated in falsification of evidence

    That’s collective blame not individual blame

    And second you refuse to understand that our intelligence agencies are above the Law for what they do outside of the US, not inside it.

    They are 100% accountable for every action inside the US and zero% accountable to American Courts for what they do outside the country

    Not true either. Reagan’s administration got caught selling arms to Iran with George W pardoned five administration officials found guilty while Ollie North of the National Security Council was the patsy who took the big rap. This crime superceded US domestic jurisdiction.

    Selling arms to a hostile country under an arms embargo is much more treasonous than a private citizen like Kerry talking to a foreign government representative which seems to be customary:

    Matt Summers, said: “There’s nothing unusual, let alone unseemly or inappropriate, about former diplomats meeting with foreign counterparts. Secretary (Henry) Kissinger has done it for decades with Russia and China. What is unseemly and unprecedented is for the podium of the State Department to be hijacked for political theatrics.”

    https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/secretary-state-john-kerry-draws-trumps-ire-57829373

    Should Kissinger be charged with treason too?

  100. There was and is US law that makes it specifically illegal to directly or indirectly give arms to a state sponsor of terror. Reagan and others ( Admiral Poindexter, Oliver North ) violated this law.

    Reagan was never held accountable. He should have been impeached and removed from office. Congress chose not to hold him accountable for what absolutely was a “ high crime “, not any mistake.

  101. Indeed Phantom,

    On December 24, 1992, President George H.W. Bush granted pardons to six defendants in the Iran-Contra Affairs. The defendants were Elliott Abrams, a former assistant secretary of state for Central America; former National Security Adviser Robert McFarlane; former CIA officials Duane Clarridge, Alan Fiers, and Clair George; and former Secretary of Defense Caspar Weinberger.

    https://www.brown.edu/Research/Understanding_the_Iran_Contra_Affair/thepardons.php

    If John Kerr doing what Henry Kissinger did for decades is treasonous then selling arms to a nation hostile to the US must be at the very least equal to that charge?

    When faced with contradicting statements of intell services being above the law Pat shifts the goalposts and makes (absolutely unsubstantiated) claims that intell operatives are above the law only when they operate in other countries.

    This of course isn’t true either:

    David A. Passaro, CIA contractor in Afghanistan, accused of severely beating an Afghan prisoner who died the next day was convicted Thursday of felony assault in a court in North Carolina:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/18/washington/18detain.html

    In a statement sent to C.I.A. employees after the verdict, Gen. Michael V. Hayden, the agency’s current director, called Mr. Passaro’s actions “unlawful , reprehensible and neither authorized nor condoned by the agency.”

    Yes, unlawful

  102. Reagan armed three terrorist movements – The government of Iran ( missiles! ) , the Contras in Central America, and the Islamic Afghan resistance

    And I don’t believe that the UK under Mrs. Thatcher Supported any of these adventures

  103. Thatcher didn’t support the Contras (but did give Reagan her full backing during the scandal over arming them – and did support many Latin American strongmen dictatorships), however the British were also very willing participants in the funding and arming of the Mujahideen (as were the French, though the Germans were opposed to the action).

  104. the British were also very willing participants in the funding and arming of the Mujahideen

    You are a credible source, so I stand corrected.

    Arming the Mujahideen, by Carter, Reagan and whoever else was involved in hindsight was an incredibly grave error.

  105. Absolutely. It was a Cold War mentality. The Soviets where the enemy. The Mujihadeen where fighting the Soviets. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. You can see exactly why they did it and can even find it reasonable.

    But in hindsight was one of the biggest errors in foreign policy in the latter half of the 20th century. So many of the major issues in the Middle East have been caused by misadventure on the behalf of European or American leaders.

    The failure of the MacDonald government to back the Kingdom of Hejaz, and Hussein bin Ali, who had helped deliver the Arabs for the British war effort during the First World War, led to the creation of Saudi Arabia. Had the British backed Ali then the House of Saud would have remained a relatively minor power in the Arabian peninsula, if not being snuffed out altogether. You would effectivelly have replaced the Saudis, and their ilk, with the current rulers of Jordan. A moderate and pro-Western government rather than the biggest exporter of Islamism?

    The US and UK lead coup d’etat in Iran replaced a democratic regime with a pro-western dictatorship, eventually leading to that dictatorship being overthrown in the Iranian revolution in 1979.

    And the arming of the Mujahideen. Those Mujahideen where largely funneled through Pakistan, where they were trained in Saudi provided madrasa. The students of those madrasa became the Mujahideen. They also became something else. The Pashto word for student? Taliban.

    Hindsight is twenty twenty but we haven’t half fucked that part of the world up with some poor, poor decisions.

  106. That’s a warning to those who want to engage in new fun wars with Iran and God knows who else.

    Because even when things are awful, they can always get worse, especially in the Middle East.

  107. My opinion is that Islamic fundamentalism more or less of the kind we know today would have arisen no matter what the political constellation in the ME was. Ultimately that movement is due to a massive failure of corrupt and brutal governments in the different countries to improve the lot of their people, both in terms of economic deveopment, increasing wealth and improvements in civil rights and free speech and the world of culture that comes from that. As it was, life was and is something between completely bleak and completely intolerable there. And when they saw the rest of the world grow in prosperity and freedoms while they were left behind, the tension finally snapped.

    The first Islamic country I ever visited was Egypt, and I remember the universal mood of depression, even dispair, that you could feel there. The people despised their lot, everything they had and even themselves. I remember a mature man, a teacher, I had got to know one evening breaking down and crying talking about his life and his country and even the colour of his skin. Yes.
    That was a very fertile ground for someone preaching a new supremacy, teling them to be proud of what they have and that they were better than everyone else. The only thing that that could be was Islam and Islamic fundamentalism. It’s no coincidence that the more liberal countries like Jordan, as Seamus mentions, didn’t see much trouble around the Arab Spring nor suffer much from the Islamic hotheads.

    In some ways that change in Islamic consciousness was like the Black Power movement in the 1970s, or even similar to the way the impoverished Irish of the 19th C, who were constantly being led to believe that they were inferior to their neighbours to the east, identified religion as a difference they could be proud of and that they could rally around.

    And the example of 19th C Ireland also tells you something about the despair that drives people, who see no way to stay and fight, to up and leave in their millions.

    A quote springs to mind:

    “I say to my people that they are holy, that they are august, despite their chains,
    That they are greater than those that hold them, and stronger and purer,
    That they have but need of courage, and to call on the name of their God”

    That kind of thing could have been, and no doubt was, preached to desperate impoverished Arabs any time over the past 40 years.

  108. Certainly political unrest and violence would have been seen in many countries throughout the Middle East due to the poor governance that was present. However the scourge of Islamic fundamentalism may have preventable.

    Broadly speaking (Iran being the notable exception) Islamic fundamentalism is a Sunni phenomenon, mainly Salifist. Much of it has its routes in the Wahabbists in Saudi Arabia, and the Qutbists in Egypts (though they largely desemenated their work via Saudi Arabia as well). Snuff out the Saudis at birth and that doesn’t happen.

    I think there is a distinction between political violence by Muslims, and Islamist violence. So I would personally draw distinctions between the PLO, Hamas, Hezbollah etc… who are Muslims engaged in political violence, and those like ISIS, Al-Qaeda and the Taleban, who are engaged in violence to install a particular version of Islam.

    So I think the poor governance in those regions would have led to groups like the PLO, Hezbollah, and maybe others in the absence of Islamism, but not the religious fanatics for whom terrorism is an act of religious worship.

    “A quote springs to mind:”

    I’ve always loved that poem. My favourite line, pertinent in this sort of discussion, being “Beware of the thing that is coming, beware of the risen people, who shall take what ye would not give”. And parallels could be drawn Noel. Violence in Ireland, giving the actions of the British, was inevitable. Violence in the Middle East, giving the actions of their elites and the foreign powers that dominated them, was inevitable. That it was religious violence was not inevitable.

  109. While much of the rest of the world has developed, the vast Arab and Muslim world has really gone backwards over the last fifty years.

    That’s bad for everyone.

  110. what a very interesting thread…. some good points of view from everyone.

    Lets take it a little further. Islam is not the problem nor is the West, East, Jews, or Catholics. There is no problem it is the natural order of life.

    Living things kill it is the natural order. The more aggressive the species the better it’s chance is for survival. Look at humanity, we are far from the best species in physical design. We are susceptible to a multitude of natural deficiencies that other creatures on this planet are not yet we are the dominant predator.

    Our aggressiveness put us on top, it is hardwired into our species. For the past 70yrs we have lived on the edge of the knife. We are capable of wiping out the whole species and we are capable caring for the whole species. It’s a crucial period in the species history.

    The problem has many facets. How do we control our natural aggressiveness to get past this point in our development as a species. In the west we have raised the human condition to the point where there is no need for violent aggression to survive yet our societies are riddled with violence.

    The fallback condition of our species is violence. Violence however only becomes the outlier when all of other needs are met. The more comfortable we are the easier it is to channel our aggression into productive or fun things. Sports fills that role, controlled competition in a vast array of venues is how we keep our aggression from erupting into violence.

    The less comfortable a person is the more the tendency for violence. When humans aren’t comfortable their aggression rises. That aggression comes out in many forms but it always comes out, both individually and in groups.

    Until we reach the point where all needs are met we will never control the species aggression.

    Aggression is the human default setting. It is how predators are wired.

  111. Reagan armed three terrorist movements – The government of Iran ( missiles! ) , the Contras in Central America, and the Islamic Afghan resistance

    Four?

    The Cambodian training became an exclusively British operation after the “Irangate” arms-for-hostages scandal broke in Washington in 1986. “If Congress had found out that Americans were mixed up in clandestine training in Indo-China, let alone with Pol Pot,” a Ministry of Defence source told O’Dwyer-Russell, “the balloon would have gone right up. It was one of those classic Thatcher-Reagan arrangements.”

    And I don’t believe that the UK under Mrs. Thatcher Supported any of these adventures

    Just to reinforce what Seamus says above:

    In 1991, I interviewed a member of “R” (reserve) Squadron of the SAS, who had served on the border. “We trained the KR in a lot of technical stuff – a lot about mines,” he said. “We used mines that came originally from Royal Ordnance in Britain, which we got by way of Egypt with marking changed . . . We even gave them psychological training. At first, they wanted to go into the villages and just chop people up. We told them how to go easy . . .”

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/politics/2014/04/how-thatcher-gave-pol-pot-hand

  112. Noted.

  113. me or paul

  114. Paul is noted.

    I forgot that the British military had been palling around with the Khmer Rouge.

    That was not good.

  115. Paul

    American foreign policy post wwii….. If it’s good for America it can’t be wrong, and any where in the world if the soviets are adding money and guns we add more money and guns to the opposite side no matter their philosophy or beliefs. If they are opposing who the soviets are supporting Arm them.

    Immediate post 9/11 Bush foreign policy…. fuck it all these bastards are crazy arm none and lets see if they still want to fight after we kill a few hundred thousand.

    Obama foreign policy…… nope fuck it we’re done, I’m not playing. You are on your own.

    Trump foreign policy…… (yet to be determined) but as of now …. If you give me a reason I’ll poke you right in the eye with this hot stick.

    Ahhh the poor rest of the world…. lmao

  116. //Trump foreign policy…… If you give me a reason I’ll poke you right in the eye with this hot stick//

    And then, just two weeks later,

    Ahhh poor America …. lmao

  117. So Noel when we unleash the 3 fleets of Aircraft Carriers and Destroyers sitting there waiting to strike the NORKS how will it be poor America?

    The NORKS have been warned.

    I wonder where the War refugees will go? Maybe Germany when China blocks them…..

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