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A GENERATION GOES SO FAST NOWADAYS

By Pete Moore On December 6th, 2018

“If we vote to leave, we will leave. They’ll not be another renegotiation or another referendum.”

108 Responses to “A GENERATION GOES SO FAST NOWADAYS”

  1. Davi Cameron recklessly and unnecessarily started this whole farcical mess. Nobody should listen to a word he says.

  2. Totally agree Colm.

  3. What happened to all politicians and Cameron in particular variously being liars, charlatans, fraudsters, rogues etc?

  4. “If we vote to leave, we will leave. They’ll not be another renegotiation or another referendum.”

    But it didn’t say that in the European Union Referendum Act, did it?

    http://www.bailii.org/uk/legis/num_act/2015/ukpga_201536_en_1.html

  5. Offer + acceptance = contract.

    Don’t one of you dare complain when a politician or a government next reneges on a deal. Your rules are that they can say what they like and rip up any deal they like, with absolute impunity. You’ve made your standards clear.

  6. What deal?

    The Act says “A referendum is to be held on whether the United Kingdom should remain a member of the European Union. ”

    Well the referendum was held.

    There isn’t a single word in the Act about what comes next.

  7. Offer + acceptance = contract

    If only it were that simple. Consideration & express & implied terms?

    Have you suddenly started believing Cameron?

  8. Gentleman –

    Maybe in your countries it’s admirable to lie and cheat. In my country people are expected to stand by a promise.

  9. Oh c’mon Pete, you’re forever banging on about how politicos are all cheats and blaggards.

    Consideration & express & implied terms? Always read the small print and caveat emptor?

  10. The referendum was for Leave by 52:48

    That vote needs to be respected.

  11. The Conservative Party offered the people a referendum on membership of the EU. The people elected them on that promise and, to be fair, they kept their word.

    The question was simple. REMAIN or LEAVE ? We chose LEAVE. We were told, repeatedly and without anyone on any side correcting them, that we would, if we voted LEAVE, would have to LEAVE the Customs Union and the Single Market. This was stated both clearly and repeatedly without correction. ie We knew what we were voting for !

    Cameron’s mistake was not to prepare in the event of a LEAVE result, so sure were they that we would just blindly follow them like sheep. That is why he had to resign because he knew he cocked up.

    Had the MP’s been a bit clever and not argue over the result or what BREXIT really meant, they could have instead debated the path by which the UK could extradite itself from the EU. Instead, the Tories voted and conniving control freak and serial liar who even kept the Queen (Head of State) in the dark over her plans.

    The EU and rEU27 were never going to offer the UK a fair ‘deal’ let alone a good one. We voted Leave and Leave was what we were going to get. Trouble is, the political class know they few of them, witness Chairman May, are up to the job and are shitting it ! That is they want to stay tied to the EU.

    The Tories have to deliver. If they do not deliver then they are toast ! Personally I am happy with this. They party that created this mess when, Edward Heath took us into the then EEC (no referendum on joining BTW) and created the EU and EU Citizenship with their cursed Maastricht Treaty.

    We are some 4 month away from when we officially LEAVE the EU. If we indeed LEAVE the EU and all its institutions and become a sovereign self governing country once more I will be happy. If not, the Tories are, as I said, are toast, which will be a small consolation prize at least.

  12. The trouble with the referendum is that it was conducted with both vagueness and politically illogical consequences. Most governments propose referendums because they seek to gain the endorsement of the electorate for a major proposal that the government wants to implement., I.e. the Good Friday framework agreeeemtn. The EU referendum was the very opposite. The government and indeed the main opposition in Parliament did not wish to change the status quo. It was UKIP and a Tory right minority who campaigned for Brexit yet it was the losing side , the Government , who were tasked with implementing the desires of the winning side. It was effectively the equivalent of for example an opposition party , say Labour winning an election , yet the party in power, the Tories having to remain in office but being required to implement Labour,s manifesto. The governments heart was never in it because they are remainers. The Cameron administration should never have called the referendum because they didn’t politically want Brexit and neither has the subsequent May administration.

    A government that genuinely wanted Brexit should have drawn up a full proposal for exiting the EU and then asked the people to endorse it, That is the only way such a massive generational political change should have been implemented. Either that or the winning side should have stepped into power to implement the proposal thr6 campaigned for.

  13. //The Act says “A referendum is to be held on whether the United Kingdom should remain a member of the European Union. ”//

    FO, the sentence nevertheless says that the referendum will decide the matter.

    // It was effectively the equivalent of for example an opposition party , say Labour winning an election , yet the party in power, the Tories having to remain in office but being required to implement Labour,s manifesto.//

    Neat comparision, Colm.

    Did candidates in the subsequent general election declare they were for Remain or Brexit?
    The fact that the general election returned a pro-Remain majority in parliament following a Brexit majority in the referendum just indicates how uncertain the electorate is on the issue. Actually, I presume for very many people it isn’t a major issue at all. Shit, a fuel tax rise in France generates more passion than the Brexit/Remain issue in the UK.

    Pete seems to be right that the people believed, or should have known, that the referendum would decide on membership of the EU, although it’s even more certain that they didn’t know what that would entail. Even the strongest Brexit supporters at the time were, for instance, reassuring the fearful by saying the UK would remain in the Single Market.

  14. ” We were told, repeatedly and without anyone on any side correcting them, that we would, if we voted LEAVE, would have to LEAVE the Customs Union and the Single Market.”

    Not true. The Leave campaign repeatedly said that they could stay in the Single Market and leave the EU. They held up Norway as a successful model for the UK. And attacked anyone who said otherwise of engaging in Project Fear.

    “The EU and rEU27 were never going to offer the UK a fair ‘deal’ let alone a good one.”

    The EU have always offered the UK a fair deal. They can have as much access as they want to have. If they want preferential access then they must agree to the acquis. If they don’t agree to the acquis then they can’t have preferential access. That is fair. The UK want preferential access without accepting the acquis. What the UK wanted is unfair.

    In terms of what Cameron says remember this key point. The Prime Minister does not speak for Parliament. And no Parliament can bind its successor. So even though the Prime Minister committed to respecting the result does not mean that he can bind Parliament to that. And just because Parliament voted to have the referendum does not bind the actions of any future Parliament.

  15. Here is Nigel Farage in 2015 talking up the Norway model.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5UhCDIwvUc

  16. “Absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the Single Market”
    Daniel Hannan MEP, founder of Vote Leave

    “Only a madman would actually leave the Market”
    Owen Paterson MP, Leave Means Leave

    “Wouldn’t it be terrible if we were really like Norway and Switzerland? Really? They’re rich. They’re happy. They’re self-governing”
    Nigel Farage MEP

    “The Norwegian option, the EEA option, I think that it might be initally attractive for some business people”
    Matthew Elliot, Vote Leave Chief Executive

    “Increasingly, the Norway option looks the best for the UK”
    Arron Banks, Leave.EU founder

  17. Here is Nigel Farage in 2015 talking up the Norway model.

    That’s nothing Seamus, here’s the author of this post in 2016:

    The Single Market is the EEA, the European Economic Area. No-one is proposing to leave it, no-one is campaigning to leave it, and the UK will not leave it. The referendum is about whether or not the UK will remain in the EU

    http://www.atangledweb.org/?p=63675

    A good example of either duplicity or non understanding.

    The EU and rEU27 were never going to offer the UK a fair ‘deal’ let alone a good one

    Mark, I’ve variously read here accusations that the EU has negotiated in bad faith, that Britain was being punished and that the EU were being unfair.

    Essentially the UK is one ‘nation’ negotiating an economic trade agreement with a bloc of twenty seven other nations. In your opinion what would be a ‘fair deal?’

  18. LOL. Good work, Seamus and Paul.

    What a farce this all is.

  19. Noel

    Stop worrying your little cotton socks..

    You will still get your dystopian totalitarian superstate.

    Resistance is futile, there is no escape.

  20. Harri,
    Don’t you work for a German company? I’m sure you said so in the past. If not, apologies. If so, how will this all affect you?

  21. Seimi

    I have attended a few meetings in Germany over the past months.

    Its hardly been mentioned.

    Why would it effect us?

  22. Seimi.

    I am far more concerned about the horrific rising costs in Slovakia since they joined the Euro.

    Now, that does effect me.

    Still, so far the Czechs are holding out, so plan C is still intact…for now.

  23. Noel,

    LOL. Good work, Seamus and Paul.

    What a farce this all is.

    I second that, Noel.

  24. Harri, on November 25th, 2018 at 11:33 AM Said:
    Colm

    Again, the week before last i was attending technical meetings in Frankfurt, there were British, Dutch, French, Italians, Spanish, Slovaks, Russians, and of course Germans.

    From Chemists, to marketing, the obvious topic of Brexit came up, during meetings and over lunch.

    When Brussels was citied as being a problem in need of serious reform.

    Almost all heads nodded in agreement.

    But as we are pretty much now certain, Brussels are beyond reform, beyond reason, and beyond redemption.

    Personally, I feel the “need” for a common market, a free trade area, I even feel the need up to a point, for open borders, the free movement of people, subject to criminal checks, sponsorship, or at least proof of not being a burden on your host country of choice within the EU.

    What I personally don’t “need” is, six Presidents, six Vice Presidents, a Chief of Staff, an EU army, tens of thousands of Brussels diktats being spewed out faster than a ferret up a drainpipe with no hope of slowing down. Or an army of 50,000 vastly overpaid bureaucratic fanatics living like Kings & Queens lording it over the rest of us.

  25. Dave.

    Its a farce, because they made it so.

    There is obviously no escape.

  26. The Brussels ‘diktats’ are the rules that make the Common Market function. And you find the proof of that in the fact that those powers being brought back from Brussels are going to Whitehall, not Edinburgh, Cardiff and Belfast. Because under the EU, and those ‘diktats’ the same rules currently are in place in England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. Repatriate those powers to Edinburgh, Cardiff and Belfast rather than Whitehall and then there will be different rules in England, different rules in Scotland and so on and so forth. This would disrupt the internal UK market to the extent that it would render it unworkable.

    So you can’t have the common market without those ‘diktats’.

  27. Seamus.

    Could we have a “Common Market” without the -need’ for six Presidents, six Vice presidents, 50,000 vastly overpaid bureaucratic fanatics, all living a life of avarice, and a EU Army?

  28. What a farce this all is.

    Farce?

    Pete and ‘those fine chaps’ at Independent Britain have unequivocally told us that:

    The Single Market is the EEA, the European Economic Area. No-one is proposing to leave it, no-one is campaigning to leave it, and the UK will not leave it

    That Briatain would just slide across to another circle

    And that if there’s any Remainer talk in dread tones about “leaving the Single Market”, it’ll be a lie.

    What’s the fuss? I’m sure all sides will be happy with that arrangement.

  29. Thatcher was absolutely correct when said.

    “Sooner or later Socialist’s run out of other peoples money”

    This is undeniable.

    She was also spot on with this…

    EU is a totalitarian superstate’

    Margaret Thatcher’s CHILLING Brexit warning REVEALED

    MARGARET Thatcher dramatically foresaw the EU as a “totalitarian superstate” and issued a chilling Brexit warning, claiming that European ideology resembles the principles of Nazism.

    Baroness Thatcher claimed “most of the problems the world has faced have come, in one fashion or other, from mainland Europe, and the solutions from outside it”.

    In a bold statement, she also compared the bloc to Nazism, suggesting that it was a European ideology and the Third Reich was an attempt at European domination.

    She wrote: “The Nazis spoke in terms that may strike us as eerily reminiscent of today’s Euro-federalists.

    “Thus Hitler could refer contemptuously in 1943 to the “clutter of small nations” which must be eliminated in favour of Europe.”

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1054651/brexit-news-eu-european-union-state-superstate-warning-Margaret-Thatcher-nazism-spt

  30. The Single Market is the EEA, the European Economi

    Whatever..

    This is not what the government phamplet that cost us 9 million quid sent to every household in the country told us.

    Are you implying the government, shock, horror….lied?

  31. Me personally, I am now looking at Brexit in simpler terms..

    In yet another inevitable referendum, all I ask is..

    If Brussels agree to hand over unredacted expenses for let’s say the last ten years, if all above board, nothing to hide, nothing to fear and all that..

    I will personally vote to remain.

  32. Those ‘fine chaps’ at Britain Independent and Pete moore are telling you that.

    Take it up with them and the Government.

  33. Oookay..

    Britain Independent, whoever they are.

    And some bloke on a blog.

    That makes all the difference then..

    😏

  34. Take it up with them and the Government.

    I am.

    I am going to vote Labour.

    So, totally ignoring Labours manifesto, absolutely zero doubt its about as worthless as all previous manifestos.

    I want what I actually voted for.

    Armageddon.

    Go Corbo.

    I am pretty certain, this time I will get exactly what I voted for.

  35. Well the Six Presidents all have their own individual roles, many of which are justifiable.

    Firstly the President of the European Parliament is the presiding officer of the European Parliament, akin to the Speaker of the House of Commons, the Ceann Comhairle of the Dáil, the President of the Bundestag. As far as I am aware almost all, if not all, Parliaments and Parliamentary Chambers in the world have a presiding officer. Now you could argue whether or not the EU needs a Parliament but then one of the principle criticisms of the EU is the lack of democratic accountability. So if you want democratic accountability then you likely need the European Parliament. If you want a European Parliament you need a presiding officer. So if you want democratic accountability then you probably need the President of the European Parliament.

    The European Council de facto acts like a Head of State, with the Council offering direction to the rest of the EU institutions. It is made up of the Heads of State or Government of the EU member states. Now as a lot of the role of a Head of State, especially in a Parliamentary system like the EU, is symbolic and representative. So the symbolic and representative aspects of the role of Head of State of the EU is carried out by its President. It is probably one of the less important roles (though quite publicly pronounced) and is certainly one of the roles that could be done without.

    The Council of the European Union, made up of the council of Ministers from the member states (depending on what is being discussed it could be the finance ministers, economy ministers etc…), de facto acts as an Upper Chamber of the European Parliament, akin to the Bundesrat in the German legislative system. And similar to the European Parliament it has a presiding officer, in the same way most Upper Chambers have presiding officers. So there is the President of the Bundesrat, the Lord Speaker (and historically the Lord Chancellor) in the House of Lords, and the Cathaoirleach of the Seanad.

    The Commission is effectively the executive of the European Union, including the civil service etc… It is lead by the Commission itself (de facto Europe’s cabinet) and lead by the President of the European Commission (de facto the Prime Minister of Europe). Even from the earliest moments it was always believed that there would need to be branch of the Common Market dealing with community law, which is why the Commission has existed in one form or another since 1958 (and the earlier European Coal and Steel Community had a commission like authority since 1952). The Common Market simply couldn’t function without it.

    In the same way that there is a body that creates community law there then needed to be a body that adjudicated community law and so the ECSC created a Court of Justice to adjudicate community law. When the EEC and the Common Market were created in 1957 the court’s remit was expanded to cover them. It has evolved into what is today the European Court of Justice. Again most courts have a chief judge appointed to the court, and the European Court of Justice is no different. So in the same way that you have the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court in the United States, the President of the Supreme Court of the United Kingdom, the President of the Federal Constitutional Court in Germany, and the Chief Justice of Ireland.

    There are also normally seven Presidents named (I don’t know where you got the six from – maybe due to the Presidency of the Council of the European Union not being held by a person but by a country – currently Austria). The two remaining are the President of the European Central Bank, and the President of the European Court of Auditors.

    The European Central Bank exits to manage the Euro and the monetary policy of the Eurozone. I wish it didn’t exist as I wish the Euro didn’t exist. But it does. And most central banks have someone in charge of it, the Governor of the Bank of England for example.

    There also are six Vice Presidents. There are 22. Some institutions that have a President don’t have any Vice Presidents (the European Council, the Council of the European Union and the Court of Auditors don’t have any), while some have more than one (the Parliament has 14 for reason passing understanding, while the Commission has six).

    I’d also question whether or not the civil servants of the EU are overpaid, vastly or otherwise. Firstly, in terms of numbers, the EU employs fewer people than Birmingham City Council or the Council of Paris. Some certainly are overpaid, especially at the top, but some are as low as £22,000 a year, which is quite low for a civil servant.

    There also is no EU Army.

  36. Harri,
    Sorry, I thought you worked for a German company?

  37. Those who lost the Brexit referendum are demanding ani=other referendum, this time being ‘The People’s Referendum’ because, in the previous one, they gave the wrong answer to the question……

    Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

    Those who want this ‘People’s Referendum’ finance the effort then deny that they are financing the effort even when it is shown that they are: these are Chosen People 🙂 because only such people are able to lie so brazenly…….

    https://diversitymachtfrei.wordpress.com/2018/12/06/soros-and-brexit-jews-openly-conspire-against-you-then-claim-it-is-a-conspiracy-theory-they-are-conspiring-against-you/

    Here’s a Guardian story from May this year. In it, Soros openly admits that he is trying to stop Brexit.

    – A campaign to secure a second Brexit referendum within a year and save the UK from “immense damage” is to be launched in days, the philanthropist and financier George Soros has announced.

    The billionaire founder of the Open Society Foundation said the prospect of the UK’s prolonged divorce from Brussels could help persuade the British public by a “convincing margin” that EU membership was in their interests.

    In a speech on Tuesday ahead of the launch of the Best for Britain campaign – said to have already attracted millions of pounds in donations – Soros suggested to an audience in Paris that changing the minds of Britons would be in keeping with “revolutionary times”.

    …This year, Soros moved to defy his critics over his £400,000 donation to Best for Britain by pledging an additional £100,000 to support efforts to fight Brexit. OSF’s total funding for pro-Europe campaigns and organisations is now at more than £800,000. –

    But now any suggestion that Soros is involved in the attempts to thwart Brexit is greeted with outrage by Jews as if it was a nutty conspiracy theory.

    Here’s a story from today’s Jewish Chronicle.

    Conservative MEP Daniel Hannan has sparked anger during a debate the government’s Brexit deal by suggesting George Soros were behind an establishment attempt to force a second referendum on exiting Europe.

    …Mr Hannan was responding to a question from an audience member when he argued that the “British establishment” had been trying to undermine Brexit since the 2016 referendum.

    The Vote Leave campaign founder then used the names of former Labour leader Tony Blair, and Mr Soros, the billionaire who fled the Nazis as a child and went to found the Open Society Foundation.

    Comments about his influence in global politics are a common and growing antisemitic trope.

    Audience member Richard Phillips told the JC: “I put my hand up and immediately said I knew what the name Soros meant when used in this context.

  38. Seimi, on December 7th, 2018 at 6:03 PM Said:
    Harri,
    Sorry, I thought you worked for a German company?

    I do.

    What difference does this make?

    Harri, on November 25th, 2018 at 11:33 AM Said:
    Colm

    Again, the week before last i was attending technical meetings in Frankfurt, there were British, Dutch, French, Italians, Spanish, Slovaks, Russians, and of course Germans.

    From Chemists, to marketing, the obvious topic of Brexit came up, during meetings and over lunch.

    When Brussels was citied as being a problem in need of serious reform.

    Almost all heads nodded in agreement.

    But as we are pretty much now certain, Brussels are beyond reform, beyond reason, and beyond redemption.

  39. There also is no EU Army.

    There is also no Irish tax harmonisation..

    Yet.

  40. Seamus.

    Enjoy your seven Presidents and seven Vice Presidents.

    But its not for me thanks.

  41. Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

    Daniel Hannan MEP, Owen Paterson MP, The Nige MEP. Matthew Elliot,Vote Leave CEO, Arron Banks,founder Leave.EU founder, Pete Moore and ‘those fine chaps’ at Independent Britain all said in the event of Brexit the UK would leave the European Union but still have the Norway model in the EEA?

    Do you mean they were lying?

    Seamus, Why bother with facts? As I recently commented to Noel regarding a comment about ‘Ze Commission’

    Facts are irrelevant in EU matters. Perception and opinion are King.

  42. Fact

    Seamus is correct.

    There are seven presidents and seven vice presidents.

    And as I said.

    Fact.

    You are welcome to them.

  43. Daniel Hannan MEP, Owen Paterson MP, The Nige MEP. Matthew Elliot,Vote Leave CEO, Arron Banks,founder Leave.EU founder, Pete Moore and ‘those fine chaps’ at Independent Britain all said in the event of Brexit the UK would leave the European Union but still have the Norway model in the EEA?

    Do you mean they were lying?

    Bejasus..

    Well duh!

    All MP’s lie, all the time, about everything.

    How many more times do you need that explained to you?

    What part of ” ALL MP’s are pathological liars”, do you not get?

  44. Paul

    Why is it, do you think, for one example, MP’s are not “allowed” to call each other “liars” in the Houses of Parliament?

    If they were allowed, apart from calling each other out on lies, not much else would actually be said.

  45. Paul McMahon, on December 6th, 2018 at 8:20 PM Said:

    What happened to all politicians and Cameron in particular variously being liars, charlatans, fraudsters, rogues etc?

    That’ll be enough of the complaining on what Brexit was meant to mean then.

  46. Paul McMahon, on December 6th, 2018 at 8:20 PM Said:

    What happened to all politicians and Cameron in particular variously being liars, charlatans, fraudsters, rogues etc?

    They are all liars, charlatans and fraudsters.

    Have you been living in a cave?

  47. That’ll be enough of the complaining on what Brexit was meant to mean then.

    I told you from day one, there will be no Brexit, there will be a second referendum.

    Dissent towards the project will not be tolerated.

    We are going nowhere.

    There is no escape.

  48. And I always said that if Brexit was to be modified it would come from within the UK and be the will of the people therein.

    You wanted Parlimentary Democracy, Paliamentary Sovereignty and to take back control. Ya got it.

  49. You wanted Parlimentary Democracy, Paliamentary Sovereignty and to take back control. Ya got it.

    We were never going to take back control

    Its been signed away.

    Its gone.

  50. Paul

    Its not Brexit which requires modifying.

    Its Brussels.

    But they refuse.

  51. What’s happening with Brexit is an entirely domestic Parliamentary affair.

    It’s Parliamentary Democracy and sovereignty administering it’s own affairs.

    You don’t like it? That’s ‘taking back control’.

  52. It’s Parliamentary Democracy and sovereignty administering it’s own affairs.

    Ah yeah, because Chairman Treason Mays “deal” really was cooked up by her?

    😏

    Oooookay.

  53. Facts are irrelevant in EU matters. Perception and opinion are King.

  54. The fact is.

    There is no escape.

  55. Welcome to Westminster Parliamentary Democracy.

  56. Welcome to the EU project.

  57. If Brexit is to be modified it will be a purely UK internal decision and the will of Parliament.

    That’s the reality of Parliamentary Democracy and no amount of emotional clap trap will change that reality.

  58. Harri,
    So, if and when Brexit happens, how will that affect your company? Or will it?

  59. Seimi.

    I am certain that some form of planning has been going on at high levels within the company, in Europe alone, there are approximately 50 to 60,000 employees, Worldwide, approximately 145,000.

    With reference to Brexit, I strongly assume the company would prefer it not to go ahead. That would also apply to most if not all European based companies.

    As I said, personally, I am all for a Common Market, free trade area, even open borders, free movement of people, based on some form of points system, criminal checks, sponsorship, etc.

  60. “There is also no Irish tax harmonisation..”

    Yes. There is no tax harmonisation yet. And for it to happen at all would require the agreement of all member states including Ireland.

    “There are seven presidents and seven vice presidents.”

    There are seven Presidents and twenty-two Vice Presidents.

    “But its not for me thanks.”

    Almost every state on the planet has equivalent roles of those seven.

    President of the European Parliament – Speaker of the House of Commons
    President of the European Council – The Queen
    Presidency of the Council of the European Union – The Lord Speaker
    President of the European Commission – The Prime Minister
    President of the Court of Justice – The President of the Supreme Court
    President of the European Central Bank – The Governor of the Bank of England
    President of the European Court of Auditors – Comptroller and Auditor General of the National Audit Office

    President of the European Parliament – Speaker of the House of Representatives
    President of the European Council – The President of the United States
    Presidency of the Council of the European Union – The Vice President or President Pro Tempore of the United States Senate
    President of the European Commission – The President of the United States
    President of the Court of Justice – Chief Justice of the Supreme Court
    President of the European Central Bank – Chair of the Federal Reserve
    President of the European Court of Auditors – Comptroller General of the United States

    President of the European Parliament – Bundestagspräsident
    President of the European Council – Bundespräsident
    Presidency of the Council of the European Union – Bundesratspräsident
    President of the European Commission – Bundeskanzler
    President of the Court of Justice – Präsident des Bundesverfassungsgerichts
    President of the European Central Bank – Präsidenten der Deutschen Bundesbank
    President of the European Court of Auditors – Präsident des Bundesrechnungshofes

    Want me to keep going?

  61. Harri

    Your 7:29am comment shows that you are a remainer and you didn’t even know it. Welcome back to the happy family EU love 🥰

  62. //As I said, personally, I am all for a Common Market, free trade area, even open borders, free movement of people, based on some form of points system, criminal checks, sponsorship, etc.//

    But you’re against Theresa May’s deal?

    With Britain in the Common Market, it would have to pay into the EU budget and follow most EU rules and laws as, for example, Norway does.

    Harry, is that what you want? Do you really know what you want?

    This Christmas I want to eat a lot of chocolate and drink tanks of booze and I want to lose weight at the same time.
    Anyone who denies me all these things is a tyrant.

  63. Want me to keep going?

    If you want to

    Knock yourself out Seamus

    Its still not for me thanks.

  64. But you’re against Theresa May’s deal?

    You believe its Theresa May’s deal

    ?

    Get a grip.

  65. Harry, is that what you want? Do you really know what you want?

    As I said, personally, I am all for a Common Market, free trade area, even open borders, free movement of people, based on some form of points system, criminal checks, sponsorship, etc.//

  66. Free movement of people based on some form of anything isn’t free movement of people.

  67. This Christmas I want to eat a lot of chocolate and drink tanks of booze and I want to lose weight at the same time.
    Anyone who denies me all these things is a tyrant.

    Absolutely no strawman there then?

    😏

  68. “Its still not for me thanks.”

    Which ones would you get rid of then?

  69. Seamus

    Carry on.

    Knock yourself out.

  70. You say it isn’t for you. Which ones would you get rid of then? You say you support the Common Market. Ok in the Common Market which of those posts would you get rid of?

  71. You say it isn’t for you. Which ones would you get rid of then?

    Here’s a start..

    President of the European Parliament – Speaker of the House of Commons
    President of the European Council – The Queen
    Presidency of the Council of the European Union – The Lord Speaker
    President of the European Commission – The Prime Minister
    President of the Court of Justice – The President of the Supreme Court
    President of the European Central Bank – The Governor of the Bank of England
    President of the European Court of Auditors – Comptroller and Auditor General of the National Audit Office

    President of the European Parliament – Speaker of the House of Representatives
    President of the European Council – The President of the United States
    Presidency of the Council of the European Union – The Vice President or President Pro Tempore of the United States Senate
    President of the European Commission – The President of the United States
    President of the Court of Justice – Chief Justice of the Supreme Court
    President of the European Central Bank – Chair of the Federal Reserve
    President of the European Court of Auditors – Comptroller General of the United States

    President of the European Parliament – Bundestagspräsident
    President of the European Council – Bundespräsident
    Presidency of the Council of the European Union – Bundesratspräsident
    President of the European Commission – Bundeskanzler
    President of the Court of Justice – Präsident des Bundesverfassungsgerichts
    President of the European Central Bank – Präsidenten der Deutschen Bundesbank
    President of the European Court of Auditors – Präsident des Bundesrechnungshofes

  72. So you’d get rid of the Queen? Didn’t think you had it in you Harri.

  73. I am all for a Common Market, free trade area, even open borders, free movement of people, based on some form of points system, criminal checks, sponsorship, etc

    I don’t believe that for one minute. You are a perpetual nihilistic malcontent and would soon find something else to be unhappy about.

  74. So in the space of a few comments Harri goes from being a Brexiteer to a remainer and ends up a radical revolutionary anarchist !

    You go Harri 🙂

  75. So you’d get rid of the Queen? Didn’t think you had it in you Harri.

    There is no “Queen”

    Mrs Windsor is an EU citizen.

    So, yes, off she trots.

  76. When the EU Was just a training area, how many officials did it have then?

  77. Trading area

  78. Phantom

    Brussels now have about 50,000 bureaucrats living life’s of avarice, that’s about half the total contingent of the whole of the British armed forces…and growing exponentially.

    Brussels..

    Release those expenses, and be dammed.

    Nothing to hide, nothing to fear…right?

  79. Brussels no longer serves the people.

    It serves itself.

    The monstrosity.

  80. Harri

    Carry on like this and you’ll be refusing to eat Brussels Sprouts on Christmas Day 🙂

  81. So Harri, do you believe that your company will be exempt from any of the rules Brexit will impose on EU businesses?
    Do you really know what you want?

    “Release those expenses…” No strawmen there…

  82. Release those expenses, and be dammed.

    Agreed, they should absolutely be released.

    However, should they be released, like your Common Market – Free Trade Area were to come to fruition, you’d very quickly find something else to be discontented about.

  83. So Harri, do you believe that your company will be exempt from any of the rules Brexit will impose on EU businesses?
    Do you really know what you want?

    No.

  84. However, should they be released, like your Common Market – Free Trade Area were to come to fruition, you’d very quickly find something else to be discontented about.

    No doubt.

    And absolutely no doubt, you would still find something to argue about.

  85. Carry on like this and you’ll be refusing to eat Brussels Sprouts on Christmas Day 🙂

    Oh, I’m pretty certian, somewhere there is an EU diktat on how to grow, and eat Brussels sprouts.

  86. And absolutely no doubt, you would still find something to argue about.

    Agreed, they should absolutely be released.

    I’m agreeing with you not arguing.

  87. “Do you really know what you want?”
    “No.”

    Well, that’s honest, at least.

  88. Seimi.

    Serious question.

    Would you prefer a Free trade area, like a Common Market, freedom of movement of goods and people.

    Or a Federal superstate, complete with an EU army, bearing in mind if they do get their wish and amass an EU army, how long could Ireland remain neutral?.

  89. Explainer: Ireland joins PESCO… is it the start of an EU army?

    Ireland this week joined PESCO, an EU body that aims to boost military ­cooperation. ­Supporters believe that it is vital to boost ­security in the age of Putin and Trump, while opponents fear it is the first step on the road to a European army.

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/explainer-ireland-joins-pesco-is-it-the-start-of-an-eu-army-36409443.html

  90. Harri
    I voted to Remain, because I honestly believe that it is in the best interest of Ireland as a whole.
    We were asked if we wanted to either leave or remain in the EU. The question of an EU ‘superstate’ was never posited.

  91. Seimi

    Fair comment.

  92. EU Army

    Absolutely no strawman there

  93. EU army

    I thought it was just a Common Market?.

  94. //Absolutely no strawman there//

    There is no EUArmy and IF and when the situation arises the Irish electorate will give their view ins on it as is correct in a democracy.

  95. However, protests have erupted over other issues, such as the need for higher wages, lower taxes, easier university requirements, better pensions and even President Emmanuel Macron’s resignation.

    Protester Claude Rigolet told the BBC: “Everything is more expensive. Taxes are going up – housing, heating costs, cars. Everything is going up.”

    Welcome to the Euro.

  96. Welcome to people wanting mutually contradictory things, and the charlatans who think they can promise them. People want lower taxes and higher spending. That’s going to end brilliantly.

  97. Seamus

    I just want them to spend the already hugfe amounts they take from us…fast more wisely..

    Thatcher was absolutely spot on..

    “Sooner or later, Socialist’s run out of everyone else’s money”

  98. *far

  99. I want them to spend that money more wisely as well. However many of the people protesting do not. They want to be taxed less but want spending increases in the public sector. It’s literally insane.

  100. I can understand the anger.

    They want lower taxes, Macron wants higher taxes..

    Macron also apparently wants his palaces refurbished.

  101. The refurbishment of the Elysée Palace is a little tone deaf at the moment. However the two are not really linked. The total public budget of France is €1.38 trillion. The refurbishment of the Elysée Palace will cost €500 thousand. So even if it was cancelled it would be a drop in the ocean of the budget.

    The taxes on the other hand are worth €2.6 billion.

    The issue, truthfully, isn’t taxes. It is about attempting to change behaviour. The market hasn’t done so (and actually in France the government distorts the market – currently – to make Diesel even more attractive). The only way to cut diesel use (short of banning it) is to make it much more expensive to use. The only way to do that is to tax diesel, and diesel engine cars. That causes controversy (especially in a country like France which has up until now actually encouraged diesel).

    It puts the strain on the ordinary citizen (rather than say on corporations or wealthier citizens). However to not put the strain on ordinary citizens would negate the effect (ie it isn’t about revenue raising – it’s about changing behaviour).

  102. Seamus

    I stopped (reluctantly) at a French service station a while back.

    Diesel at this particular service station was a staggering 1.84 a Litre.

    Mind you, it didn’t improve that much through Germany, and Austria, and now poor old Slovakia are not that far behind.

  103. Average diesel price in France is €1.45, the same as the average petrol price. In Britain it is the equivalent of €1.49 for diesel, and €1.39 for petrol. Germany is €1.29 for diesel, €1.41 for petrol.

    It may have been that particular service station but the average would be much lower than that.

  104. Seamus

    You are correct, all motorway service stations.

  105. Average 2018 price of litre of diesel in Spain €1.17

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/603734/diesel-fuel-prices-spain/

  106. Spain obviously isn’t under the brutal jackboot of the grasping evil EU…

    Oh hang on wait a minute… 🙂

  107. In fact some of the highest diesel prices are outside the EU. Norway €1.65, Switzerland €1.61, Iceland €1.59.

  108. Norway’s an incredibly expensive place for everything.

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