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Folding Pattern?

By Mahons On December 10th, 2018

The Prime Minister of the UK is seeking to postpone what is anticipated would be a disaterous vote on her Brexit Deal Tuesday. It reminds me of one wit’s definition of a fox hunt: “The unspeakable chasing the inedible.”

There is little consensus over any proposal other than bitternesd at any turn. A renewed effort by May does not bode well as hasty political compromise, unlike wine, does not age well. She faces being toppled by her own party, or a no confidence vote pressed by the other main party, with parochial tantrums (DUP) of smaller players adding to the general discord. Even a second referendum won’t please everyone.

The are the times that try men and women’s souls.

163 Responses to “Folding Pattern?”

  1. What an absolute mess. And that’s just the bloody Tories ! The party that took us into this unholy alliance and the party that has worked so hard, even now, to keep us in. They deserve nothing but utter contempt and electoral obliteration.

    The really good thing, and there is quite a lot actually, is that the Tories in particular, and politics in general, are broke.

  2. This is the worst situation – one where one or both sides will be very unhappy with the outcome, where each thinks that the other is being unfair.

  3. Any else enjoying the sight of British nationalists, precisely the people that partitioned Ireland, now being bitten on their collective ass by the border they put in place?

  4. !!

  5. I think most Irish nationalists are enjoying a little bit of schadenfreude at the moment. Unionists, and their British enablers, insisted on that border in the first place. That it is now going to be their undoing is quite funny.

  6. Noel, on December 10th, 2018 at 4:17 PM Said:
    Any else enjoying the sight of British nationalists, precisely the people that partitioned Ireland, now being bitten on their collective ass by the border they put in place?

    Yep.

    Whoever believed in their wildest dreams, little old me wandering down to the local village hall, and placing a little cross in a box, would turn out to this much fun, and so entertaining!.

    😀

  7. Is there more than one Harri on this site (please God, no!)? Over on another thread, there’s a very confused Harri, moaning on and on about the horrors of the EU, declaring their new-found love for Labour (yawn!) and seeing racist slurs were there are none, and on here, there’s a completely different Harri who is laughing at the fact that British Nationalists are having their assets handed to them.
    It’s as confusing as the first Harri’s continually derailing train of thought.

    I can’t wait to see how the DUP’s shenanigans play out in the next election here. I’d say they’ve done themselves an awful lot of damage, especially amongst their rural and border voter base.

  8. I think part of the problem is people taking personal satisfaction by developments without thinking of real world impact. The satisfaction of sticking it to the EU is all well and good, until one realizes it is cutting of your nose to spite your face. Mirth at the impact of NI also ignores the serious impact on the border issue.

  9. Yes

    And also

    The satisfaction of sticking it to the UK is all well and good, until one realizes it is cutting of your nose to spite your face

  10. // Mirth at the impact of NI also ignores the serious impact on the border issue//

    Normally, it would. But in this case those who want the least impact on the border, or even want no effective border at all, are justified in laughing at the problems the backstop is now causing for British nationalists, who would be prepared to disregard totally the interests of the people on both sides of the border as long as they could have their Brexit way. Just listen to the likes of Boris Johnson.

    Our mirth and political rationale are pulling on the same rope, so to speak.

  11. Seimi, on December 10th, 2018 at 4:46 PM Said:
    Is there more than one Harri on this site (please God, no!)?

    If there was, you would have twice as much to post about.

    😀

  12. When you fail to plan, as the Tories have, then you end up planning to fail or, as the Tories have, duck the issue and run.

    Those that think that membership of the Stupid Club is somehow just going to be the same as it always was are blind to the reality that faces them. Their country will be no more. Just a province of a Brussels run Superstate.

    I voted Leave. I voted in the full knowledge that doing so would undoubtedly impact me personally. Why ? Because of many reasons. But because that I want to live in an independent country where those I elect are responsible for me. They have slowly been ducking that one too, but I am determined this time to nail the bastards 🙂

  13. Harri X 2 = twice as many comments = twice as little sense
    That would make you a quarterwit.

    Hang on. Re the Backstop – the border is not an issue. It’s completely made up and is being used by the EU to trick the UK. Pete Moore told me so.

  14. //But because that I want to live in an independent country where those I elect are responsible for me//

    Well, Mark, we’ll see how that goes.

    After all, the ECJ today announced that the UK is now free to reverse its decision if it wishes (ah, yes, yet another tyrannical move by the EU, I suppose), i.e. the British parliament is free to leave competely, to remain, or to enact May’s compromise.

    That’s already the British sovereignty that people were claiming the UK didn’t have under Brussels. We’ll see how they like that sovereignty in action.

  15. Well, Mark, we’ll see how that goes.

    The same way as it went before BOTH the UK and RoI joined the EU. Were leaving, you’re not. I have no problem with that so long as you know what it is you are getting into ? I know, and it will not be easy, for anyone ! But no more of a problem for the UK then it was for RoI when they left the Empire.

  16. I’d say it’ll be a much, much bigger problem, Mark B. Look at how difficult it is now, and you haven’t even left yet.

  17. Brexit I think is one of the major reasons that the financial markets are so negative in recent days.

    If Europe can’t get its act together, that’s bad a world economy that still has problems.

    A bad Brexit won’t be only a failure by the British. You all own this pig.

  18. that’s bad for a world economy that still has problems.

  19. Right. The problem is within the UK. Half want to remain, half want to leave (in some way or other). The parliament is split, most want to remain but will vote to leave. The government itself is split.

    Ireland’s wish to leave the British Empire could not have been clearer, i.e. less like Brexit. The declaratin of a Republic was supported by every party in parliament at the time and ever since.

  20. “Right” was for Seimi.

  21. The satisfaction of sticking it to the EU is all well and good, until one realizes it is cutting of your nose to spite your face.

    I can’t wait till Mahons finds out that he doesn’t live in the EU.

  22. Thank god the US/Canada/Mexico never tried a EU type structure.

    Though I believe that some ( hello Hillary ) would have welcomed just that.

  23. The obvious answer is for Parliament to take back its duty to govern and lead which Cameron abandoned. It should rightfully vote to withdraw article 50 , put the Brexit nonsense to bed and then concentrate its efforts on real bread and butter policy matters.

  24. Seimi, on December 10th, 2018 at 5:16 PM Said:
    Harri X 2 = twice as many comments = twice as little sense
    That would make you a quarterwit.

    Says the ATW halfwit.

    😀

  25. Seimi.

    What a gal.

    She loves me really.

    😀

  26. Oh look, Colm the anti-democrat is here to tell us that Parliament should vote to withdraw Article 50. That would be the Parliament which voted to issue Article 50.

    It’s as if these anti-democrats just make it up as they go along.

  27. Oh look, Colm the anti-democrat is here to tell us that Parliament should vote to withdraw Article 50. That would be the Parliament which voted to issue Article 50.

    Colm

    All hail Gina Miller.

    😀

  28. Harri
    Back to silly schoolyard prattle and parroting others? Well done. Go with what you’re comfortable with.

    What do people think will happen? Will the vote be cancelled? Will it go ahead? If so, which side will win? Or will Article 50 be withdrawn? And if that’s the case, how will that affect the political landscape? It could mean the decimation of the Tories, at least for the next ten years, which would be very hard to come back from.
    In that scenario, who would rise to take their place?

  29. Pete and Harri

    I want us to remain in the E.U. I don’t care what anyone else wants. So of course I want Parliament to do what I think is best. You both hold the opposite view. That’s life.

  30. Seimi, on December 10th, 2018 at 6:21 PM Said:
    Harri
    Back to silly schoolyard prattle and parroting others? Well done. Go with what you’re comfortable with.

    Seimi.

    One insult deserves another.

    Fairs fair now.

    😀

  31. who would rise to take their place?

    Labour, If you have been taking any notice, there actually isn’t anyone else.

  32. Noel

    It’s not about who wanted to leave the most, it was about the fact that Southern Ireland transited from one state, a British colony, to an independent country. No Withdrawal Agreement or border tantrums back then !

  33. Harri, I was taking it for granted that people would have the intelligence to infer from my comment that I meant in opposition to Labour. I forgot you were in the room.
    Allow me to rephrase my question, for the hard of thinking:
    Who would rise to take their place in opposition to Labour?

  34. “No Withdrawal Agreement or border tantrums back then?”
    Ummm… What?

  35. Seimi.

    For the hard of thinking.

    Why don’t you tell us?.

  36. Mark B

    There was a withdrawal agreement. What do you think the Irish civil war was about ?

  37. Harri
    I asked the question to see if people had any opinion on who might take over from the Tories. Do you have any (any!) thoughts on it? Or are you waiting for someone else to have a thought you can then echo/parrot?

    “For the hard of thinking.”
    Indeed.

  38. Harri is like ATWs very own kaleidoscope. Twist him a little bit and you get an entirely new vision 😉

  39. Seimi.

    Sigh…there is no one else.

    Give me strength.

    Yup

    Its that bad.

  40. That’s your opinion, Harri? Okay. Thanks for the input.
    Anyone else?

  41. Seimi.

    You are the oh great oracle…

    Why don’t you tell us?.

  42. //It’s not about who wanted to leave the most, it was about the fact that Southern Ireland transited from one state, a British colony, to an independent country//

    Mark, that went smoothly because there was almost 100 percent unanimity in Southern Ireland before, during and after its departure in 1949.

    The whole shambles in Britain is because the country, parliament and government are completely split on the issue. As I said before, the UK can leave entirely, remain entirely or effect May’s deal. It is totally up to the UK. But, because of the almost equal strengths of the different positions, the UK can’t decide.

  43. “Mays deal”

    https://goo.gl/images/Xekxo1

  44. Harri

    Are you unaware of the Anglo Irish treaty of 1921. The terms by which the U.K. and the Irish separatists agreed the framework under which Ireland became a ‘free state’. Hardline Republicans opposed partition and the fact that Ireland remained Under the Crown and limited in its independence. It was a soft “Eirexit” . To say there was no withdrawal agreement is untrue.

  45. Colm

    I’m aware that anyone daft or gullible enough to believe its “Mays deal” is barkng mad.

  46. Colm

    How can Ireland be a “free state” if its controlled by Brussels?.

  47. Give me strength !

  48. Colm

    You mean

    “Give me sense”?

    Too late for you I’m afraid.

  49. Harri
    Again, I was assuming that anyone with a functioning brain would be able to conclude that I wasn’t setting myself up as any kind of ‘oracle,’ but was merely asking a question to see if people had an opinion. Again, I forgot you were in the room.
    Honestly, it’s like trying to converse with a child.

  50. Seimi.

    Who would you suggest could possibly “take over power” from the Tories?

    Other than the one and only opposition, Labour?.

    Well?.

    You simply must have at least an idea, or you wouldn’t have been dumb enough to ask the question in the first place.

  51. that I wasn’t setting myself up as any kind of ‘oracle,’

    Its a bit late for that.

    What you don’t know, well its really not worth knowing.

    😏

  52. Harri
    It is completely pointless trying to have a conversation with someone as wilfully stupid and ignorant as you. Have a good evening playing with your crayons, or whatever.

  53. Seimi

    Any original thoughts yet?

    Who would you suggest could possibly “take over power” from the Tories?

    Please, enlighten us mere mortals oh great oracle..

  54. Seimi..

    So…you basically haven’t got a clue, have you?.

    So…why ask the dumb question in the first place?.

  55. https://youtu.be/7FPELc1wEvk

    😂

  56. Harri

    You asked repeatedly for someone to give some further detail on the withdrawal agreement that birthed Irish independence. When I gave you a brief summary you came back with a stupid quip about “Brussells”. Is it any wonder people get exasperated with your toddler mentality.

  57. Colm

    Are you unaware of the Anglo Irish treaty of 1921.

    Not to sound flippant but, it was nearly 100 years ago. It might be important to you and others like you but, to most people living in the here and now, we have moved on. I suggest some of you do likewise.

  58. Colm, on December 10th, 2018 at 7:49 PM Said:
    Harri

    You asked repeatedly for someone to give some further detail on the withdrawal agreement that birthed Irish independence. When I gave you a brief summary you came back with a stupid quip about “Brussells”. Is it any wonder people get exasperated with your toddler mentality.

    Colm

    How can Ireland have independence, when its controlled by Brussels?

    Colm

    You also stated the other day, Eastern Europe was “far more violent” than Britain.

    You were wrong, I proved you wrong, yet you didn’t get back to me?.

  59. Mark B

    You don’t sound flippant. You sound stupid. You are the one who brought up Irish independence from the U.K., and then showed your ignorance by claming there was no withdrawal agreement. Sorry if you don’t like being educated on your falsehoods. You haven’t moved on and you haven’t learnt either.

  60. Harri

    You asked repeatedly for someone to give some further detail on the withdrawal agreement that birthed Irish independence

    Actually, you just made that up.

    No, I didn’t.

    What I actually asked was for Seimi to at least try to answer her own question..

    “Who would take over from the Tories”.

    Colm.

    Stop making shit up.

    😏

  61. Colm, on December 10th, 2018 at 7:56 PM Said:
    Mark B

    You don’t sound flippant. You sound stupid. You are the one who brought up Irish independence from the U.K., and then showed your ignorance by claming there was no withdrawal agreement. Sorry if you don’t like being educated on your falsehoods. You haven’t moved on and you haven’t learnt either.

    So…it wasn’t me then?.

    😏

  62. Colm.

    Would you please be as kind, in your liberal minded way, to point to the posts on this thread where

    “Harri
    You asked repeatedly for someone to give some further detail on the withdrawal agreement that birthed Irish independence”

    Well?

  63. Harri

    Do you know is what independence means ? It means the ability of a sovereign country to CHOOSE to join an international organisation. Unless you can show me where Ireland was violently forced into the EU.

    As to Eastern Europe, you didn’t and cannot prove me wrong. You can only find a website which backs up your claims, which anyone can do. It is widely known that levels of criminal reporting is much lower in Eastern European countries than Western European but surveys of experience show that crime and corruption are higher in the former Iron curtain countries that in the rest of Europe.

  64. Seimi –

    What do people think will happen? Will the vote be cancelled? Will it go ahead? If so, which side will win? Or will Article 50 be withdrawn?

    Only a fool will predict what will happen. The useless PM and her government have lost authority, British politics is literally in chaos and everyone is trying to game things tactically.

    I’m confident only in saying that there won’t be a General Election. It’s the one thing that the Tories and DUP can all come together on. No matter what happens, none of them want Corbyn in Downing St.

  65. Colm

    As to Eastern Europe, you didn’t and cannot prove me wrong. You can only find a website which backs up your claims,

    It was an official government survey.

    You were vwerong…again.

    Admit it son.

  66. Harri

    For pities sake you are getting like Patrick now . Read your 6:36pm for starters.

  67. Noel –

    As I said before, the UK can leave entirely, remain entirely or effect May’s deal. It is totally up to the UK. But, because of the almost equal strengths of the different positions, the UK can’t decide.

    We decided.

    The truth is that the country has been split on “Europe” for 50 years. The referendum meant that the establishment could no longer pretend otherwise. But Parliament voted to give us the say and we had our say.

    Anyone who things that our decision shouldn’t be implemented is simply an anti-democrat.

  68. Harri
    You asked repeatedly for someone to give some further detail on the withdrawal agreement that birthed Irish independence”

    No, I didn’t.

    Colm .

    Prove it.

  69. Harri

    A corupt survey clearly. Only a fool like you would believe it. Next thing you will be believing The DPRKs wonderful stats. Yes, I know you need to Google DPRK 😋

  70. Colm

    Harri
    You asked repeatedly for someone to give some further detail on the withdrawal agreement that birthed Irish independence”

    Well?

  71. Harri
    You asked repeatedly for someone to give some further detail on the withdrawal agreement that birthed Irish independence”

    Colm

    I call bullshit on this one.

    At least try and man up, and admit your error.

  72. I’m confident only in saying that there won’t be a General Election. It’s the one thing that the Tories and DUP can all come together on. No matter what happens, none of them want Corbyn in Downing St.

    Interesting comment Pete. IYO, what are the alternatives to a GE? (legitimate question). A vote of no confidence in May would create a constitutional crisis probably leading Nelly to invite Corbo as leader of the opposition to form a gov as she did with Cameron in the wake of Brown’s resignation?

    Question: Should it be put to the UK electorate whether another referendum should be held on Brexit and if not why not?

  73. I suspect that in the event of a GE the DUP would hemmorage votes substantially.

  74. Colm, on December 10th, 2018 at 7:53 PM Said:
    Harri

    It’s a pity you never manage to strike a single fish in that barrel 😉

    Harri, on December 10th, 2018 at 8:08 PM Said:
    Colm

    Harri
    You asked repeatedly for someone to give some further detail on the withdrawal agreement that birthed Irish independence”

    Well?

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHA..

    😂😂

  75. Harri

    If you can’t read or understand your own comments and demands on this very thread I can’t help you. Just as I have said on the other thread with regard to Patrick, I will leave it to others to believe you or me.

  76. Colm

    Please, show me the post.

    Patrick lied in his claims.

    And so did you Colm.

  77. Colm, on December 10th, 2018 at 7:49 PM Said:
    Harri

    You asked repeatedly for someone to give some further detail on the withdrawal agreement that birthed Irish independence.

    No I didn’t.

    Colms in full bullshit mode.

    Colm.

    When in a hole, stop digging.

  78. I will try one more time. At 6:35 Seimi corrected Mark B about there being no withdrawal agreement when Ireland got its independence. In your next comment you asked Seimi to explain it. You then berated him for not elaborating so I did, then you made a silly dig about Brussells control. Is that clear enough for you.

  79. Patrick lied in his claims.

    Colms unwise words, not mine Patrick.

  80. Colm

    You dope.

    You mean this..

    Harri, on December 10th, 2018 at 6:36 PM Said:
    Seimi.

    For the hard of thinking.

    Why don’t you tell us?.

    That was in answer to the post of Seimi..

    Seimi, on December 10th, 2018 at 6:34 PM Said:
    Harri, I was taking it for granted that people would have the intelligence to infer from my comment that I meant in opposition to Labour. I forgot you were in the room.
    Allow me to rephrase my question, for the hard of thinking:
    Who would rise to take their place in opposition to Labour?

    Colm.

    Go read it again.

    You’re welcome.

    Now, you said

    “You asked repeatedly for someone to give some further detail on the withdrawal agreement that birthed Irish independence.”

    No, I didn’t.

    Colm.

    Stop digging?

  81. Paul –

    We have five year fixed term parliaments, by law. A two-thirds majority in the Commons is necessary to call a GE before the next scheduled GE. The numbers just aren’t there.

    Corbyn was due to call for a no-confidence vote in May today but pulled it. He knows that the Tories and the DUP will not allow it to pass.

    No-one can see May surviving, but then she’s been hanging on by her fingernails for two years now. She would have gone by now if an obvious successor was around. There just isn’t any single candidate who has the standing and who can gain sufficient support.

    Question: Should it be put to the UK electorate whether another referendum should be held on Brexit and if not why not?

    No, because we’ve had the referendum. It’s been done and we;re past that. We didn’t vote for another referendum. We didn’t vote to renegotiate our relationship with the EU or to do a deal with it. We voted to leave and that’s that.

    Look, the only people calling for another referendum are Remainers. They are only calling for it as a way to overturn the referendum result that has not yet been implemented. There is no public clamour for one. There is no democratic or constitutional need for one. It’s just a tactic to overturn our decision.

    No-one of good conscience should entertain the idea.

  82. So, Colm

    Where did I “asked repeatedly for someone to give some further detail on the withdrawal agreement that birthed Irish independence.”

    Bullshit alert.

    Colm.

    Man up, you made a mistake, its not the end of the World, and you have the audacity on another thread to patronise Patrick about lying.

    Give me strength.

  83. Fair enough Harri, I was reading the comments chronologically and yes sometimes a comment can jump in between a latter response. I thought you were responding to Seimis 6:35. I was wrong and am willing to admit it.

  84. Pete

    I agree with your 8:33pm. We do not need and should not have another referendum.

  85. Colm

    Hallebloodylujah

    The Penny’s dropped.

    I will take that as an apology then.

    Liberals huh!.

  86. I understand the machinations of the required vote in the Commons Pete but the only outcome I can see to this is May resigning and Nelly giving the nod to Corbo.

    No-one of good conscience should entertain the idea.

    Absolutely disagee. A question to the electorate on a second referendum is the way of putting the issue to bed once and for all without actually frustrating the process itself.

  87. Colm, I wasn’t asking about another referendum. I was asking about whether the question should be posed to the electorate of if there should be another in order to gage the will of the electorate on it.

    I was wrong and am willing to admit it.

    Fair play Colm. It’s a shame that others don’t have the same integrity.

  88. *guage

  89. //(May) would have gone by now if an obvious successor was around. There just isn’t any single candidate who has the standing and who can gain sufficient support.//

    But isn’t that what we have been saying? The country is divided; a 52 pc majority in the referendum, which now probably has been reversed, doesn’t change that. Too many want to leave to be ignored, but also too many want to remain to be ignored. May’s plan – or something similar – at least tries to give each side something. But the more extreme Brexiters in her party or elsewhere haven’t put forward any proposals I’ve seen that would better tackle the issues of Brexit.

    The Irish backstop issue is another attempt to square the circle. As far as I can see (but in this confusion I may well be wrong), it’s all about not letting the other side have a stronger position in future UK-EU trade deal negotiations. Without a backstop, the Irish would have a weaker hand; if the backstop were permanent, the British hand would be weaker. There can’t be a NI – GB customs border because of the DUP; and there can’t be a hard Irish border because of the GFA and countless other agreements and govt promises.
    What serious proposals have any Breixters made to solve these issues?

  90. Paul –

    Most people (all Leavers and some Remainers) don’t want another referendum.

    Noel –

    We had a vote and we won. The only possible solution is to unite around the outcome which got the most votes.

    If Remain had won we would not have spent the last 2.5 years talking about hard remain and soft remain. We simply would have remained. I’m sorry, but anti-democrats have to get their heads around this.

    Many solutions have been advanced by Brexiteers. You simply haven’t been told about them by a media which is predominantly pro-EU.

    The backstop is nothing more than a red herring. It’s a solution to a problem which never existed.

  91. Most people (all Leavers and some Remainers) don’t want another referendum.

    I’m not sure what the basis of this is Pete, (yes, I know there are articles and polls which state it, there’s also articles and polls which state the opposite), that why I think the question on guaging public opinion on the issue without frustrating the actual process is a valid one.

    The backstop is nothing more than a red herring. It’s a solution to a problem which never existed.

    Pete, people here were telling you about the problems with the border in Ireland long before the referendum.

  92. Is there anyone in the UK whose proposed solution is sensible and could obtain a real consensus? It doesn’t appear that way from hrre.

  93. Paul –

    There will be no hard border. There’s no need for one and no-one wants one. London, Belfast, Dublin and Brussels are crystal clear that there will no be one.

    So who will implement a hard border? Just a name will do. Who will implement a hard border?

  94. Pete, there needs to be customs checks on food quality, cattle etc. Now, we’ve had this at length recently with your ridiculous Lord whatever his name was and his customs checks 40 miles from border but if you’re telling me there’ll be no hard border in Ireland? suits me, however I’d tend to believe what I’m reading around the issue.

  95. Can a Brit explain this bit of House of Commons weirdness that happened today?

  96. Daphne

    I think it was meant to represent a belief that Parliament is being rendered powerless hence he was removing the mace which is its symbol of power. Either that or he just likes waving a big weapon around 😉

  97. Daphne, he was grabbing the mace as a protect against the Prime Minister’s refusal to let parliament vote on her Brexit deal tomorrow, as had been planned.
    The mace is a symbol of the queen’s authorisation of parliament to meet and pass laws. If it’s not in place, parliament can’t act.

    It’s all part of the medieval farce that colours a lot of parliamentary procedure in the UK and that the British people think means something.

    Another part of it is that, after May defaulted today, nobody knew what the next procedure was and whether parliament could force a vote or whatever.
    Britain doesn’t have a written constitution, and sometimes people get confused about what precedent tells them to do.

  98. Who could possibly be confused by our smooth running system. I mean just look at the ‘Strong and Stable’ way our PM and Parliament are capably delivering Brexit. The obvious next Parliamentary procedure is for the speaker to throw the Mace up in the year and the future of the U.K. can then be decided by whether it lands on the head of a Brexiteer or a remainer 😱

  99. Thanks – it looked bizarre and very theatrical.

    This struck me funny today.

  100. If he holds mace up and says ‘by the power of grayskull’ He-man will come and save brexit.

  101. Daphne, Nige is standing in front of a Brexit billboard saying:

    “Use your loaf. Without the EU, food bills in every UK household would be £400 cheaper.”

    And of course the fools …er… swallowed that one.

  102. Charlie Kirk and Candace Owens (right wing grifters) are giving a pro-Brexit talk in London and their press release calls it “the most important American philosophical arrival to Europe since Thomas Jefferson arrived in Paris”

    Laughed so hard I nearly wet myself.

    Who would show up for this pair of idiots?

  103. Who the hell in Britain has even heard of these two idiots… oops I mean intellectual giants ! 😉

  104. This Brexit thing doesn’t sound like it was well thought out.

  105. Here’s the guy organising the event Daphne refers to

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/simonusborne/the-donald-trump-superfan-who-lives-in-a-castle-in-cornwall

    This is the Trumpisation of Britain. Theresa May just isn’t with it. She should today simply have said: “Aah..you know, like, this deal that I made is the most amazing deal in British history, an amazing deal. Good for our country.”

  106. Daphne

    It wasn’t thought out at all. The referendum did not offer a fleshed out proposal that the electorate could have endorsed or not . Instead it just offered a vague in or out leaving Government and Parliament to decide the framework of leaving. As we can see two and a half years on they are no nearer to doing so. If there was to have been a referendum at all it should have been the concluding Seal at the end of a known agreement not the starting gun to a race where the runners can’t even agree where the finishing line is ?

  107. Former Brit PM accuses British unionists in Ireland opposed to the ‘backstop’ ‘ignorant’

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-46468409

    The chaos that Brexit has released on British politics is truly Alice through the looking glass stuff and stuff like the above is really difficult not to feel a touch of schadenfreude with.

    Meanwhile, the EU are playing hard ball with May:

    European Commission President Jean Claude-Juncker said the EU would not “renegotiate” the deal but there was room for “further clarifications”.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46515743

  108. A United Ireland will move dramatically closer if the ‘backstop’ is removed from the Brexit deal, British Prime Minister Theresa May has said.

    In a warning that caused significant surprise in Dublin, Mrs May openly admitted that voters in Northern Ireland may want to join the Republic rather than see Border posts re-erected.

    “They (in Northern Ireland) do not want a return to a hard Border. And if this House cares about preserving our union, it must listen to those people because our union will only endure with their consent,” she said

    ( Independent )

    Exceptionally interesting statement from a sitting British PM

  109. European Commission President Jean Claude-Juncker said the EU would not “renegotiate” the deal but there was room for “further clarifications”.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrJDFoQ1k9M

  110. Talking of a touch of schadenfreude..

    This could get interesting…

    France on COLLISION COURSE with EU: Macron shameless pay-off to rioters BREAKS EU rules

    EMMANUEL Macron was today shamelessly BUYING his way out of trouble caving in to rioters after weeks of blood and chaos on the streets of France, with a host of policy U-turns and a multi-billion euro package of ‘presidency-saving’ measures.

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1057226/france-protests-emmanuel-macron-concessions-financial-crisis-GDP-bruno-Le-maire

  111. I believe that France has broken EU rules when it has suited them before.

    Knocking under to a violent mob is a very bad idea.

  112. //Exceptionally interesting statement from a sitting British PM//

    She’s only threatening in order to scare MPs into supporting here. But I doubt if many of them really care very much.

    Another veiled threat is Major’s (Paul’s link).
    No matter what happens with the border, there will be no return to the Troubles.

    (unless the Brits decide to cut and run, in which case Loyalists could start running amok again)

  113. = supporting her

  114. I believe most EU members have broken EU rules Phantom, usually minor infringements such as timescales to enact regulations etc.

    Anything written about the EU in the sExpress should never be taken at face value and I cant find anything to suggest that Macron has broken any EU rules.

  115. The daily Express has a dramatic story almost every day about a different member state “threatening” to leave and “tear apart” the EU. One day it’s Greece, then Italy, then Hungary ,wait a fortnight and every country has its turn in the Express spotlight. It’s as dramatic and believable as their regular “ armageddan “ extreme weather predictions.

  116. I’m just waiting for the Daily Express to combine their two main headlines:

    “Diana killed for wanting to leave the EU”.

  117. No doubt something to do with an EU imposed backstop as well… 😉

  118. Surely you mean EU imposed diktat Colm?

  119. Paul

    I think backstop works better when referencing a car coming to a sudden stop 😱

  120. Surely you mean car crash?

  121. Talking of car crashes fellow plebs..

    I see Treason May and her “expert advisors” have turned up at Brussels HQ to receive the next batch of orders..

    https://youtu.be/dES_WYUFPZw

  122. May is now just another political refugee. Arriving in the EU saying she’ll soon die in her native country if the Europeans don’t help her.

  123. She has one of the worst jobs in the world.

    No matter what she did, she would have been pilloried.

  124. I’m desperately trying not to laugh..

    Thwarted by the EU again! Brexit Betrayal protestor fails to light European Union flag because it is FIRE RETARDANT

    Clip shows man attempt to set fire to EU flag when stood on a bus stop in London
    He appears to douse the material in lighter fluid repeatedly – but it won’t set fire
    Protestor was taking part in the Brexit Betrayal march led by Tommy Robinson

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6483287/Brexit-Betrayal-protestor-fails-light-European-Union-flag.html

  125. Noel, on December 11th, 2018 at 4:09 PM Said:
    May is now just another political refugee. Arriving in the EU saying she’ll soon die in her native country if the Europeans don’t help her.

    Noel

    I thought we were all Europeans?

  126. cheer up we live in interesting times…… here from the land of free speech as it is in the halls of academia….

    Here are four recent events that reflect the state of free speech in America today:

    At the University of California-Berkeley, a member of the student Senate faced mass, indignant demands for her resignation after she abstained on a vote on transgender rights.

    At the Public Broadcasting Service newsroom in New York, a veteran editor was fired for saying “Not bad” as he and a colleague viewed photographs of the actress who would marry Prince Harry, Meghan Markle.

    A tenured Caucasian professor of history at Rutgers University was threatened with punishment after he made a clearly satirical comment on Facebook that he hated the white race and wanted to resign from it.

    And at Sarah Lawrence College in Yonkers, N.Y., the office of a self-described “conservative-leaning professor” was vandalized hours after he published an opinion article in the New York Times, lamenting what he called the lack of intellectual diversity on college campuses.

  127. cheer up we live in interesting times…… here from the land of free speech as it is in the halls of academia….

    Here are four recent events that reflect the state of free speech in America today:

    At the University of California-Berkeley, a member of the student Senate faced mass, indignant demands for her resignation after she abstained on a vote on transgender rights.

    At the Public Broadcasting Service newsroom in New York, a veteran editor was fired for saying “Not bad” as he and a colleague viewed photographs of the actress who would marry Prince Harry, Meghan Markle.

    A tenured Caucasian professor of history at Rutgers University was threatened with punishment after he made a clearly satirical comment on Facebook that he hated the white race and wanted to resign from it.

    And at Sarah Lawrence College in Yonkers, N.Y., the office of a self-described “conservative-leaning professor” was vandalized hours after he published an opinion article in the New York Times, lamenting what he called the lack of intellectual diversity on college campuses.

  128. lamenting what he called the lack of intellectual diversity on college campuses.

    The liberal progressives are running the asylum presently.

    So, what there actually is, is a distinct lack of intellect on college campuses.

  129. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6483287/Brexit-Betrayal-protestor-fails-light-European-Union-flag.html

    Thanks for that, Harri.

    A perfect reflction of the level of competence among the Brexit crowd.

    – first use up all your fuel
    – then find it doesn’t work
    – then a pathetic climbdown

  130. You’re welcome.

  131. “At the University of California-Berkeley, a member of the student Senate faced mass, indignant demands for her resignation after she abstained on a vote on transgender rights.”

    So if you condemn representatives on a body for not voting the way you want them to vote you are now attacking their free speech? I take it if you condemn a single thing that Democrats vote for then you are attacking their free speech as well?

    “At the Public Broadcasting Service newsroom in New York, a veteran editor was fired for saying “Not bad” as he and a colleague viewed photographs of the actress who would marry Prince Harry, Meghan Markle.”

    So says the lawsuit filed by the editor in question. I guess plantiff’s lawsuits are always to be taken at face value. Even taking it at face value making sexual comments in front of co-workers is a pretty stupid thing to do.

    “A tenured Caucasian professor of history at Rutgers University was threatened with punishment after he made a clearly satirical comment on Facebook that he hated the white race and wanted to resign from it.”

    He wasn’t threatened. He was investigated. And after outcry the decision was reversed.

    “And at Sarah Lawrence College in Yonkers, N.Y., the office of a self-described “conservative-leaning professor” was vandalized hours after he published an opinion article in the New York Times, lamenting what he called the lack of intellectual diversity on college campuses.”

    Vandalised is a strong word. Someone left a note, albeit a rude one, on his door. And surely in a free speech defence you should be celebrating the fact that he was able to make his case and others were able to make their rebuttal?

  132. and a “progressive” speaks….. lol

  133. Noel
    You left out the first point in your list at 4.31

    -ignore the label that clearly says it won’t light/work

  134. Theresa May visiting Dublin tomorrow for talks. How things have changed!

    https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/brexit/theresa-may-to-visit-dublin-for-crucial-brexit-talks-with-taoiseach-leo-varadkar-37616032.html

    If May wants to speak to the Irish she needs to be speaking to those in the north of the island who humiliatingly slapped her down last December:

    https://www.thejournal.ie/dup-may-papers-3732506-Dec2017/

  135. I doubt this kind of attitude will smooth May’s way in Dublin:

    “We simply cannot allow the Irish to treat us like this,” the former minister said about the negotiating tactics of the Taoiseach, Leo Varadkar […]

    “This simply cannot stand,” the one-time moderniser told me. “The Irish really should know their place.”

    https://www.joe.ie/politics/brexit-irish-know-their-place-651353?fbclid=IwAR131zyGO9reoDGZk969udQ_FjYq374k03l31G54fSxU7Y75x08cvLGCYVY

  136. Edwina Currie was on the Nolan Show this morning, saying that the DUP did not represent the people in the North, and that the numbers in favour of Remain in NI now stood at around 63%.
    May needs to be speaking to those people, not the ones who she bought to shore up her government, and then sold her down the river.

  137. the numbers in favour of Remain in NI now stood at around 63%.

    Holy cow.

    That’s significant.

  138. That’s only one ex MP’s figure though, Phantom. She said she had read a poll saying so, but I don’t have stats to back that up. But NI voted to Remain and, whatever the numbers stand at now, May needs to be talking to those people, not the DUP. At the end of the day, the DUP is just 10 people at Westminster, not the thousands in NI who now regret listening to those 10.

  139. From May:

    Northern Ireland would vote more strongly to remain in the EU if there was another Brexit poll, a study has suggested.

    A total of 69% would favour Remain if there was another referendum compared to 56% at the vote two years ago, the UK In A Changing Europe project said.

    https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/brexit/brexit-northern-ireland-support-to-remain-in-eu-soars-to-69-36928116.html

  140. If the DUP think that they’ll be immune from the Brexit chaos they helped to create I strongly suspect that they’ll have a rather unpleasant surprise:

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/some-unionists-are-thinking-the-unthinkable-about-living-in-a-united-ireland-1.3725241?fbclid=IwAR3x3T3oRB0yrSe8dPc8-T7YWOkXy0hXpVZk4gUP8Ct83kkAyyiLFIOuFqs

  141. May going!!

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46535739

    Hello PM Corbyn!

  142. Come on everyone place your bets, who will Tory leader by the beginning of 2019 ?

  143. By 2019 do you mean 8.19pm tonight, Colm? The poll will close at 8pm, so we should know by then 😊

  144. Sajid Javid

  145. A triumvirate of BoJo, Pete Moore and Harri

  146. So it won’t be privileged, millionaire, public school educated elitist, man of the people Boris Johnson?

    Maybe it could be privileged, multi – millionaire, public school educated elitist, man of the people Jacob Rhys Mogg?

  147. Seimi

    No I do mean 2019, because we won’t actually know the new leader tonight. We will only know if it is going to still be May or A N Other.

    I think if May folds it will be Dominic Raab.

  148. Colm
    So, how did the humour bypass operation go?
    It was a joke, mate. Granted, not a very good one, but a joke within the meaning of the word 😊

  149. Seimi

    Ah yes how did I miss that. I don’t think I have had a humour bypass. I think I’m actually suffering from Humour overload. I live less than half a mile from the biggest JOKE in the world right now… Westminster, and the heady farce is making me dizzy.. 😜

  150. In fairness, you probably missed it because it wasn’t actually that funny 😂

  151. Seimi

    I disagree. OK it wasn’t a belly laugh, but it was a good one.

  152. //I think I’m actually suffering from Humour overload. I live less than half a mile from the biggest JOKE in the world right now//

    I didn’t know you lived that close, Colm.

    Where are you, Soho?

  153. As if I would live in that den of iniquity 😉

    No I’m literally just south of the river. If I were to stand on the roof where I live I could pee into the Thames 😱

  154. Colm
    How do you know this? Go on, admit it. You have actually stood on your roof and peed into the Thames, haven’t you?

  155. Oh no, You’ve seen the YouTube video 😱

  156. …. or should that be, X tube 😉

  157. Maybe if poor Theresa, gazing south out of the window of the HoC during one of those endless debates, saw that, she’d decide there are other things more worth fighting for after all.

  158. Noel

    Perhaps all the MPs have looked across the water and have been driven crazy by what they saw on that roof 😱

    I take the blame. That’s why Parliament is in such a mess !

  159. Is this the famous ‘Black Rod’ they talk about around Parliament Buildings? 😂

  160. Maybe it’s what gave them the idea of the “backstop” in the first place.

  161. Its were they got the idea to start pissing in the wind.

  162. //Perhaps all the MPs have looked across the water and have been driven crazy by what they saw on that roof//

    You mean, they would finally have agreed on something that all of them aspire to?

  163. I think it reminded them of the horrors of a well hung Parliament 😇