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Common Sense

By Patrick Van Roy On January 6th, 2019

Here is the full story from NPR about the Report just released. Please read and comment on it’s conclusions and suggestions.

Parkland Shooting Panel Report Calls For Arming Teachers, Chronicles Slew Of Blunders

A blistering report released on Wednesday by an investigative panel looking into the Valentine’s Day massacre at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Florida last year, exposes a litany of school security breaches and chaotic protocol leading to the deaths of 17 students and faculty, and it recommends arming teachers to prevent or slow future on-campus attacks.

The probe also tears into school staff and sheriff’s deputies involved in the incident, some of whom it says contradicted “ample evidence” captured on video and audio surveillance footage. The Public Safety Commission argues they either intentionally told falsehoods or offered differing accounts due to incompetence.

“All stakeholders—school districts, law enforcement, mental health providers, city and county governments, funding entities, etc. — should embrace the opportunity to change and make Florida schools the safest in the nation,” the report says in its opening pages, which includes short biographies of each of the victims.

“There must be a sense of urgency—and there is not, across-the-board—in enhancing school safety,” it says.

The analysis, comprising a 439-page report, examines “what happened leading up to the shooting and the law enforcement response.” That includes a moment-by-moment recounting of the shooting as well as a comprehensive scrutiny of the shooter’s life – Nikolas Cruz — from birth through the Feb. 14, 2018.

The report and its recommendations were sent to the governor’s office and legislature for consideration.

“We will not wait, we will be vigilant and we, like the legislature, expect compliance and change with urgency,” the Commission says.

Among the most controversial recommendations for the state legislature is that it should expand the Coach Aaron Feis Guardian Program “to allow teachers who volunteer,” and get training, to carry concealed firearms on campuses.

Under the program — named in honor of the football coach who died while protecting students during the attack — administrators and other staff can receive training to carry concealed weapons. But only teachers with a military or law enforcement background are allowed to participate in the program.

President Trump has repeatedly called for arming teachers as a means of making schools safer spaces. “We have to have offensive capability to take these people out rapidly before they can do this kind of damage,” Trump told reporters at a news conference in the weeks following the tragedy in Parkland.

He also reasoned that security guards “don’t love the students” as teachers do, NPR reports.

However, the Florida Education Association, which represents teachers, and the Florida PTA, both oppose the expansion of the law believing more guns on campus will make schools less safe, the Miami Herald reports.

Several chapters of the report chronicle myriad security breakdowns, systemic school security failures and the absence of a cohesive protocol that allowed Cruz to easily enter the campus and embark on the shooting rampage: Gates and doors were left unlocked while others were inaccessible just when students needed additional hiding spaces; there were no public address system speakers in the hallways that might have improved communication throughout the bloody chaos.

Additionally, the report notes that a recent shift in policy by Broward Sheriff Scott Israel, telling deputies that they “may” enter a building where there is an active shooter, where previously they were trained to enter, created confusion and led to inaction by eight deputies responding to the active shooter.

According to the report, Deputy Scot Peterson, the school’s only dedicated armed security officer on the day of the shooting, opted not to enter the building where Cruz had begun firing on students and teachers. Instead, he took up what the report calls a “hiding place” at the base of a stairwell for 48 minutes and only emerged after Cruz had run off campus and into the surrounding neighborhood where he was eventually arrested.

The report also notes Peterson was repeatedly untruthful about where he was from the moment he first heard the gunshots through the end of the massacre. In a statement given on Feb. 16, 2018, to the Broward Sheriff’s Office, Peterson said that he was in his office at the time he heard what he believed to be firecrackers. But video indicates he was elsewhere on campus.

The Commission also found fault with the FBI for its failure to follow up on tips regarding Cruz and the danger he posed to students and faculty months before the attack.

Similarly, it details several instances in which parents and students allege they approached Principal Ty Thompson and Assistant Principal Jeff Morford with concerns about Cruz’ behavior, claims both men deny.

Still, the report says, “Investigators found Morford to be remarkably absent-minded in remembering details about various events and/or being intentionally deceptive.”

The panel called for a broad evaluation of existing mental health and social services “to ensure they are producing the desired results.” It stressed services should focus on “evidence-based best practices with specific metrics to measure outcomes.

Gov. Rick Scott, whose last day in office is Jan. 8, said he will review the report.

85 Responses to “Common Sense”

  1. The analysis, comprising a 439-page report, examines “what happened leading up to the shooting and the law enforcement response.” That includes a moment-by-moment recounting of the shooting as well as a comprehensive scrutiny of the shooter’s life – Nikolas Cruz — from birth through the Feb. 14, 2018.

    Patrick, 439 pages are a fair amount to go through.

    No doubt you possibly have.

    Are illegal or prescription drugs mentioned?

  2. Both… I’ve perused it certainly not read the whole nightmare.

    My point and point of the commission’s findings, Unanimously TEACHERS SHOULD BE ARMED.

  3. Patrick Van Roy,

    My point and point of the commission’s findings, Unanimously TEACHERS SHOULD BE ARMED.

    Indeed. I’m sure an overworked, mentally unstable, stressed out teacher, will never get angry with really disruptive kids, and go postal on their asses.

  4. Armed teachers among groups among sometimes disruptive teenagers is the dumbest idea in the history of the world.

    Anyone who has attended secondary school, anyone who has observed what goes on there, who works there, will tell you that.

    It will lead to more deaths, no fewer.Many more.

  5. Patrick.

    Why not arm the students as well?

  6. to young….. but that doesn’t stop them in places like Baltimore, Philly, and Detroit the students there are armed and shoot each other on a regular basis.

  7. Harri,

    Why not arm the students as well?

    Indeed. It will certainly improve the grades. I can just hear little Johnny now telling his teacher that his homework should be graded A+, or else he’s gonna pop a cap in her ass.

  8. Patrick Van Roy,

    but that doesn’t stop them in places like Baltimore, Philly, and Detroit the students there are armed and shoot each other on a regular basis.

    But if an armed teacher comes across to students in a Mexican standoff, how does he decide which one to shoot? (Or should he just shoot them both, and let God sort it out?)

  9. Dave.

    Pedantic moi?

    Or “his arse”?

    Apologies, but you liberals started all this shit..

    😏

  10. Not sure what you’re on about there Harri, you’ll have to clarify.

  11. Dave once or twice a year we get some crazy that comes to school to kill all those that they percieved bullied them in some way or another.

    In thousands of schools everyday we have punks, drug dealers, and gang members that are armed. Heard of many Mexican Standoffs ?

    You also don’t hear about the daily shooting by the gangsters you ONLY HEAR about the crazies.

  12. TEACHERS SHOULD BE ARMED.

    Quite probably the most stupid suggestion in the universe. The cleaners busdrivers and janitors should also be armed too?

    Apologies, but you liberals started all this shit

    You old racist you H.

    Not sure what you’re on about there Harri

    In all all fairness Dave neither is he.

  13. I want the lunch ladies to be armed.

    Anything else is an attack on the ” Second Amendment “

  14. Teachers, bus drivers, cleaners, janitors, lunch ladies, school counsellors all should be armed.

    I mean, what in the name of WTFU could possibly go wrong?

  15. It’s funny that over time, the most gun-infested states tend to have the highest homicide rate

    2017 homicides per 100,000 population
    Alabama 8.3
    Alaska 8.4
    New York 2.8
    Massachusetts 2.5
    Rhode Island 1.9

    NY state is particularly interesting. Led by NYC on this matter ( gun controls are tightest in the five boroughs of NYC, much less strict in the upstate rural counties ) , the homicide rate has gone down from 7.4 in 1996 to 2.8

    In PA, in that time frame, the homicide rate actually went up slightly, from 5.7 to 5.8. More than twice the homicide rate of liberal latte sipping NY. What a horrible job, PA.

    In all white and all Republican Alaska in the same period the homicide rate went up from 7.4 to 8.4

  16. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_homicide_rate

  17. Schools are SOFT TARGETS.

    Those of us that have children understand this. We send them off into the hands of liberals where they are not protected. There are rapes, exposure to drug dealers and gang violence with the once or twice a year psycho that shows up and kills ten or twenty of them.

    There are two choices.

    1) fortify they schools no one gets in our out without going through metal detectors and bag searches. All doors only open from the inside with alarms. Along with armed guards.

    2) We randomly arm Teachers and School Personnel.

    According to the teachers union option 1 which is the best solution is psychologically damaging in some way to the students.

    Option 2 you have asses like the above comments.

    So do nothing and allow our children to preyed upon by animals and slaughtered by the occasional psycho which is what the majority of you advocate.

  18. Homicide rates are only one statistic

  19. Homicide rates are only one statistic

    Yes, gun death rates per 100,000, which includes ” accidents ” and suicides, make the gun argument much worse than the one given above.

  20. “There are two choices.”

    There’s a third. Get rid of guns.

  21. you list of Phantom puts Pennsylvania 37th in it’s list of murder rate.

    Yet you ignore that Pennsylvania is the number 1 state in Gun Sales. And has been number one for as long as records have been kept.

    Kinda blows your theory to shit……

  22. Seamus, on January 7th, 2019 at 3:07 PM Said: Edit Comment
    “There are two choices.”

    There’s a third. Get rid of guns.

    There are 350 Million people in America there are over 500 Million legally owned guns…. you gonna go collect them Seamus?

  23. It worked in Australia.

  24. Pennsylvania has a terrible record on homicides

    Why is that?

    Gonna blame it all on the evil people in center city Philly and Pittsburgh?

  25. Schools are SOFT TARGETS.

    Those of us that have children understand this. We send them off into the hands of liberals where they are not protected. There are rapes, exposure to drug dealers and gang violence with the once or twice a year psycho that shows up and kills ten or twenty of them

    Eh? I’ve four girls all educated to university level and not once were they were never shot, raped, drugged or been assaulted by gangs at school.

  26. Gonna blame it all on the evil people in center city Philly and Pittsburgh?

    I could easily Phantom since that’s where over 80% of the shootings take place, but unlike you I understand there are both crazy and dangerous people everywhere.

    There is not a city, burough, or township in Pennsylvania or anywhere in the US that isn’t busy everyday with one animal or multiple.

  27. Paul McMahon, on January 7th, 2019 at 3:45 PM Said: Edit Comment
    Schools are SOFT TARGETS.

    Those of us that have children understand this. We send them off into the hands of liberals where they are not protected. There are rapes, exposure to drug dealers and gang violence with the once or twice a year psycho that shows up and kills ten or twenty of them

    Eh? I’ve four girls all educated to university level and not once were they were never shot, raped, drugged or been assaulted by gangs at school.

    Your children didn’t go to school in the US especially in any of our urban centers. There is no comparison.

    The United States is a unique environment.

  28. Why is it that NY, MA, RI, Hawaii are twice as safe as PA or better?

    Care to hazard a guess?

    Does your bad gun law and custom have anything to do with anything, or do you wish to blow that issue off yet again?

  29. Alaska doesn’t have any big urban centers, and it has very few minorities

    Yet their homicide rate is three times higher or worse than NY, MA or RI

    Why is that? Any clue?

  30. “The United States is a unique environment.”

    Because of guns.

  31. Your children didn’t go to school in the US especially in any of our urban centers. There is no comparison.

    The United States is a unique environment

    Precisely my point, the level of violence in American society which doesn’t exist where I am. There is of course a theory for this.

  32. And a general lack of training in using/respect for guns among the terrified people that often own them.

    In Switzerland, there is a high firearm ownership rate, but the Swiss actually are well trained in their use, much more than in America.

    In PA, and in many other US states, there is no training requirement at all, nor is there one on the federal level.

    The NRA has actually opposed mandatory training for gun owners. Because the Constitution likes to have untrained people owning loaded guns

  33. If you break the gun violence down in Pa it has nothing to do with our supply or our Laws.

    We have some of the strictest background checks in the nation including running them against psychological commitment records and domestic abuse charges. In Pa if your wife files a domestic abuse complaint they take your guns and every gun in the house. If you are put under psychological evaluation even for 72hr observation your house is cleared by law of any firearms.

  34. Precisely my point, the level of violence in American society which doesn’t exist where I am. There is of course a theory for this.

    Oh please elaborate I would enjoy reading some lite comedy.

  35. Yet no safety or marksmanship requirement

    There are many ” accidental ” shootings involving PA gun owners who don’t know which end the bullet comes out of.

    Details upon request.

  36. that’s called darwinism

  37. That’s one thing when some moron adult hurts himself, it is unforgivable when it involves a child, sometimes a very young one, getting shot or shooting another person with an extremely dangerous tool that he cannot understand.

  38. I get very angry reading stories like these, which happen in every year, all over the US.

    And when they’re brought up, the gun nuts do the oul shimmy shake, rather than doing anything to mandate training of any kind. Note I say mandate – I could care less about ” voluntary “.

    You need training before you drive a car, you should need training before you can legally own a tool that is designed to kill.

    http://time.com/5489719/mother-sentenced-accidental-shooting-son/

    https://wnep.com/2017/06/18/troopers-4-year-old-boy-dead-after-accidentally-shooting-himself/

    https://www.pennlive.com/news/2018/12/teen-killed-in-accidental-shooting.html

    https://www.wkbn.com/news/local-news/new-castle-police-teen-accidentally-shot-killed-another-boy/1647031774

  39. Oh please elaborate I would enjoy reading some lite comedy.

    Well there are a few but one of the most prominant is the preponderance of guns available.

    I mean, you have stated that teachers should be armed because schools are allegedly a ‘soft target’.Now, if teachers should be armed why shouldn’t school ancillary staff, cleaners, janitors, lunch ladies, bus drivers etc not be armed too?

    What are the possibilities of something happening in such a highly charged atmosphere?

  40. What are the possibilities of something happening in such a highly charged atmosphere?

    Provenly less than if there is an armed staff on presence.

  41. Phantom, on January 7th, 2019 at 4:56 PM Said: Edit Comment
    That’s one thing when some moron adult hurts himself, it is unforgivable when it involves a child, sometimes a very young one, getting shot or shooting another person with an extremely dangerous tool that he cannot understand.

    You lock the parents up for life.

    My children were raised with guns and never had access until they were properly trained. As was I and all the generations of my family before me.

    It’s called being responsible.

  42. monsters walk among us,,,,,

    Michigan man pleads guilty to 6 murders in 2016

    KALAMAZOO, Mich. — A man charged with killing six strangers between picking up rides for Uber pleaded guilty to murder on Monday in Michigan.

    Jason Dalton’s surprise move occurred as lawyers and a judge planned to pick a jury in Kalamazoo County court. There was no deal for Dalton: He pleaded guilty to murder and attempted murder, and he faces a mandatory sentence of life in prison with no chance for parole.

    “I’ve wanted to do this for quite a while,” Dalton told a judge.

    He answered “yes” to a series of questions, admitting that he shot eight people at three locations in the Kalamazoo area in 2016. Four women, a man and a 17-year-old boy were killed.

    After Dalton’s arrest, police quoted him as saying a “devil figure” on Uber’s app was controlling him on the day of the shootings. He was found competent to stand trial and last week dropped an insanity defense.

  43. Provenly less than if there is an armed staff on presence

    Then why do such things not happen where I am?

  44. Phantom,

    I want the lunch ladies to be armed.

    I can see it now, lunch lady Doris pointing a loaded Magnum at little Johnny’s head and saying; ‘I know what you’re thinking punk, did you take 6 potato tots or was it only 5?’

  45. Paul

    These guys are immune to all reason on this matter.

  46. Then why do such things not happen where I am?

    You don’t live here. but lets not forget these:

    Dunblane School Massacre, United Kingdom, 17 Dead

    Cologne School Massacre, Germany, 10 Dead

    Erfurt Massacre, Germany, 16 Dead

    Finland School Shootings, 19 Dead

    Rio de Janeiro School Shooting, Brazil, 12 Dead

    École Polytechnique massacre, Canada, 14 Dead

    Ma’alot Massacre, Israel, 25 Dead

  47. Excellent googling

    But those places all have off the charts lower homicide / gun death rates than the US does.

    We are aware that there is evil in the rest of the world.

  48. shit still happens though don’t it……

  49. If you can lower the death rate by 50-80% you should do it.

  50. You don’t live here. but lets not forget these

    Four of them in Europe Pat, the exception to the rule. How many school shotings have there been in the US where such incidents are supposedly ‘provenly less than if there is an armed staff on presence?’

    Once again:

    Why do such things not happen where I am?

  51. Why do such things not happen where I am?

    because Paul you don’t live here, and even though I prove to you monsters exist everywhere we will fall back on reality.

    I live in the most violent society on earth, our cities have sections worse than Beirut, Damascus, or Baghdad.

    There are more guns than there are people… we like it that way.

    God, Guns, and the balls to defend yourself are the primary stitches that hold the quilt of America together.

    We will never give up our guns, and no one can take them from us. It’s that simple.

  52. The violence is caused by guns. Remove the guns and no more violence. Certainly no where near the same levels of violence.

  53. At least your 7.56 is an admission that the stratospherical levels of violence and crime in your society is because it’s awash with guns.

    I’ll never understand why some Americans are prepared to sacrifice America’s children for a document written almost 230 years ago though.

  54. I live in the most violent society on earth,

    No you don’t. Not even close.

  55. bullshit…… the worst school masacre in the US was Bath School Disaster, USA, 38 Dead

    Considered to be one of the most deadly mass murders in a school in the history of the United States, this incident was carried out, not by a young man but a 55 year old man who was angry at his defeat in the local elections for township clerk. It also did not involve any guns but a bomb in a local elementary school. On May 18, 1927, Andrew Kehoe set off a major bomb explosion in the Bath Consolidated School, Michigan USA killing 38 children, two teachers and four others. Kehoe had earlier murdered his wife and family and had been secretly planting bombs under the basement of the school. He committed suicide by detonating an explosion in his truck. He had actually planned up to blow up the whole school which is why he planted more than 500 pounds of unexploded dynamite under the school which were to explode at the same time.

    and even with your current epidemic with stabbings you’re amateurs

    According to crime statistics from the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), knives are consistently used to kill people far more often than rifles are used. And the numbers aren’t even close: five times as many murders were committed with knives than were committed with rifles last year.

    that includes “assault weapons” but not hand guns. Stabbings without death…. averaging 434,259 per year.

  56. El Salvador has a 20 times higher murder rate than the US does. Please pay attention.

    https://www.indexmundi.com/facts/indicators/VC.IHR.PSRC.P5/rankings

  57. Phantom, on January 7th, 2019 at 8:03 PM Said: Edit Comment
    I live in the most violent society on earth,

    No you don’t. Not even close.

    Really except active warzones where are more people murdered and maimed?

  58. El Salvador had 5,000 murders we had over 15,000

  59. “and even with your current epidemic with stabbings you’re amateurs”

    Which is why it isn’t legal to carry a switchblade or a penknife in many places in the UK.

    And the reason for lack of death is nothing to do with a lack of ability or skill from the homicidal. It is a lack of guns.

    “Really except active warzones where are more people murdered and maimed?”

    And why are you ok with that? Why are you ok with killings on the level the US have because of guns?

  60. Brazil has five times the murder rate, and I think that it always has had it.

    No wars in Brazil

    Please pay attention

  61. “El Salvador had 5,000 murders we had over 15,000”

    You really aren’t that stupid so stop pretending.

  62. Patrick Van Roy, on January 7th, 2019 at 8:17 PM Said:
    El Salvador had 5,000 murders we had over 15,000

    After 15 years on this site, and many explanations, you still don’t know the difference between rate and gross numbers?

    For the love of God

  63. Seamus

    Don’t assume.

    He really thinks that is a logical argument

  64. dead bodies are what count Phantom, and comparing third world banana republics with us does not make your argument.

    You are clueless to the violence and mayhem that surrounds you everyday.

  65. And why are you ok with that? Why are you ok with killings on the level the US have because of guns?

    I’m not.

    Lock up the animals and enforce the laws on the books. 90% of the violence is committed by 10% of the people.

  66. We have a higher murder rate than Iran Rwanda or Turkey.

    Maybe we can have those governments teach us how to have a safer society.

  67. Incidence rate is what counts. Because otherwise any large nation is going to appear to have a much worse problem than any smaller nation.

    Which is why the standard is how many people are killed per year per 100,000. The worse is El Salvador – with 82.84 people killed per year per 100,000 people.

    To put that in the same terms as the United States it would be the equivalent of murdering 265,000 people.

    “Lock up the animals and enforce the laws on the books. 90% of the violence is committed by 10% of the people.”

    No problem with that. But the problem is that the ease of access to guns is what fuels the violence. Get rid of the guns and the violence drops.

  68. According to the World Atlas as of Jan 2018 the US comes in at 81 for intentional homicide in the world :

    https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/murder-rates-by-country.html

  69. There are 837,000 unemployed people in Greece. There are 5.98 million unemployed people in the United States.

    By Patrick’s logic America must be worse.

    Trump’s America must be a basket case.

  70. Patrick Van Roy,

    I live in the most violent society on earth, our cities have sections worse than Beirut, Damascus, or Baghdad.

    That’s demonstrably untrue Patrick. You don’t live in the most violent Society on earth, not by a long way.

  71. Patrick Van Roy,

    that’s called darwinism

    I think it’s actually called the Darwin award. And you can only win if you kill yourself in a foolish way, and haven’t had any children.

  72. alright incident rate take the incidents of crimes with a gun and divide it by the 500 million legal guns plus the 200 million illegal guns 700 Million guns divide the incidents into that number…. what are the percentage of incidents compared to number of firearms?

    Those are the numbers that count.

  73. That’s not how anyone does it.

    This mathematical confusion is at the root of all your endless errors here.

    This guy really thinks that the guns themselves have human rights, and that the rights of humans to be safe is meaningless.

  74. He has a gun fetish. And doesn’t care how many kids are sacrificed to his fetish.

  75. I don’t think arming teachers is a good idea but at least it isn’t completely insane. A point of order for the panel vote, I’m not sure it was unanimous, I think one of the members dissented. I’m a little hesitant to abide by these types of panels but at least some dialogue ensued.

  76. Patrick

    alright incident rate take the incidents of crimes with a gun and divide it by the 500 million legal guns plus the 200 million illegal guns 700 Million guns divide the incidents into that number…. what are the percentage of incidents compared to number of firearms?

    That calculation makes absolutely no sense Patrick.
    The calculation that most people use his homicide, per x amount of people.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_murder_rate

  77. Just to add, looking at that list above remind me never to visit Brazil.

  78. Or Mexico.

  79. Both Mexico and Brazil have high crime rates and police forces that nobody trusts at all

    I know a lot of people who have been to Mexico recently and who have liked it- Cancun, Puerto Vallarta, Are still very nice for most people

    I don’t get the attraction of Brazil at all . I always have heard of high rates of violence and menace in the favelas.

  80. Phantom

    I know a lot of people who have been to Mexico recently and who have liked it

    To be honest mate I was being a bit tongue in cheek. I probably visit Mexico, after all, I’ve been to South Africa several times.

    I don’t get the attraction of Brazil at all .

    Well, there’s a statue of Christ the redeemer on top of that mountain. Although I think they should Paint It black for a change.

  81. That calculation makes absolutely no sense Patrick.
    The calculation that most people use his homicide, per x amount of people.

    Not if GUNS are the problem…..

    You people say get rid of the GUNS….. NOT the people using them for BAD look at all the bad incidents…. I see a lot of BAD PEOPLE I don’t see a single gun that on it’s own shot or killed anyone.

  82. Well, there’s a statue of Christ the redeemer on top of that mountain. Although I think they should Paint It black for a change.

    Dozens of tourists robbed on trail to Rio’s famous Christ the Redeemer statue

    Dozens of tourists hiking toward the famous Christ the Redeemer statue in Rio de Janeiro were held at gunpoint for up to two hours in a mass robbery that could mark an early test for anti-crime crackdowns promised by Brazil’s new president.

    Police said Friday that at least three assailants carrying knives and a gun set up the ambush on the trail, which cuts through a dense forest that borders a slum on the outskirts of the city and has been the site of numerous muggings.

    In total, more than 30 people were robbed Thursday – about half foreigners from Asia, Europe and elsewhere in South America – as the thieves took hostages and waited for more tourists to arrive.

    They took cellphones, cameras, wedding rings and credit cards, police said. Nobody was hurt.

  83. The honorable gentleman is confused, persuant to his own desire To be confused at all times

  84. my guns have killed less people than Ted Kennedy’s car…..

  85. PVR, LOL!

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