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REMAINERS WILL STOP AT NOTHING

By Pete Moore On January 9th, 2019

The Speaker, John Bercow, has always prided himself on assiduously applying the rules of the House. He’s morally and politically corrupt, however he’s always been a rules man. But no longer.

Today he tore up the rules in the service of thwarting the sovereign will of the people. He balked at the counsel of House clerks who told him he was wrong, and he admitted in the House that he gave no thought to the consequences. One consequence we already know, and it’s that when trust has gone it can never be restored. Remainers tell us that we must not be angry, that we must hold our grace while we disagree (and the Establishment effectively tells us that democracy is good only when it goes their way). I say bollocks to that. A far greater man than any of them saw through that ruse –

In short, the theory that we must not be angry is the very charter of escape for all evil-doers who are strong enough to awaken anger.

– G.K. Chesterton: Daily News, August 8, 1908

We rarely do overt displays of anger in this country. It’s not the Saxon temperament. But out here, under the surface, we’re boiling. One day Bercow and his treacherous allies will find their parliament surrounded by pitchforks, and they’ll have brought it on themselves. Amid the political squalor, the rules of Parliament were the one constant path. But they’ve torn up the rules because they were inconvenient. So they cannot now call on rules.

119 Responses to “REMAINERS WILL STOP AT NOTHING”

  1. What will be deeply interesting will be the future impact of this decision (Pete’s call to terrorism aside).

    The traditional belief is that business motions are the sole purview of the government – and can only be tabled by Ministers and can only be amended at the request of Ministers. It is one of the major avenues for executive control of the legislature – the government decides what the Commons actually talks about on any given day.

    I don’t know what would be more controversial.

    A) Bercow has made a one time decision to allow the spiking of the Government’s Brexit plans – a situation that is simply nothing more than the Speaker of the House riding a horse and carriage through the rule book in order for the House to come to policy decision that he supports.

    or

    B) Bercow has issued a new precedent. That business motions are now the purview of the whole House and not the government, thus shifting – massively – the power of the Commons away from the government and towards the backbenchers.

    Now Bercow has for years tried to shift power away from government to the backbenchers (much to the opposition of the Tories – as they have been in government for most of that time). This would be an unprecedented shift in power, and one, in my opinion, that would not be in the interest of good government.

    In order to have successful government the government must be able to govern, and the opposition must be able to oppose. If the government is too strong – and is able to ride roughshod over any opposition, even reasonable opposition – then that is a recipe for bad government. If the government is too weak – and is unable to get even the reasonable parts of its agenda through Parliament – then that is a recipe for bad government.

    Bercow has either politicsed the Speaker in a manner unheard of in modern British history, or his has torn up the very fabric that allows for successful parliamentary government in the UK.

  2. One consequence we already know, and it’s that when trust has gone it can never be restored

    Indeed Pete. On the matter of trust, as I commented just last night / earlier today:

    Paul McMahon, on January 8th, 2019 at 10:29 PM Said:

    “In-or-out was on the ballot paper. We voted out. That was the mandate and the instruction. Not one person voted for a deal”

    One lie involves the PM in particular. He has stopped talking about “the EU”. He always talks now of “leaving the Single Market”. It’s not only a lie, but a psychological trick, however you can understand why the Remain camp don’t want voters hearing “ee-you” all the time. But it’s a lie because the EU and the Single Market are two separate and distinct entities […]

    The Single Market is the EEA, the European Economic Area. No-one is proposing to leave it, no-one is campaigning to leave it, and the UK will not leave it. The referendum is about whether or not the UK will remain in the EU. The question has nothing to do with the Single Market

    Who said that?

    […]

    Paul McMahon, on January 9th, 2019 at 8:34 AM Said:

    Pete,

    The quote I use at 10.29 above are comments from yourself from the 20th of June 2016. They mean one of three things:

    – You were lying

    – You didn’t understand the full import of the referendum question

    – Someone lied to you about the connotations of Brexit and you believed them

    Now, each of these possibilities is a catch 22 for Brexiteers for if any of the deceit and / or chicanery within is then projected onto the Brexit electorate it means that any one of these options is in itself a good enough argument for another crack of the referendum whip.

    Yeah, ‘trust’. Can we ever trust anything you say again?

  3. Seamus –

    A fair explanation, except that I didn’t call for terrorism. I shelved an attempt in the interests of brevity. Well that, and Rugby Tonight is on BT Sport.

    Paul –

    We’ve been round that mulberry bush before. I’ve corrected your assumptions already, and I won’t be doing so again no matter how much you carry on.

  4. Pete,

    The quote I use at 10.29 above are comments from yourself from the 20th of June 2016. They mean one of three things:

    – You were lying

    – You didn’t understand the full import of the referendum question

    – Someone lied to you about the connotations of Brexit and you believed them

    Now, each of these possibilities is a catch 22 for Brexiteers for if any of the deceit and / or chicanery within is then projected onto the Brexit electorate it means that any one of these options is in itself a good enough argument for another crack of the referendum whip.

    You don’t like being caught on a hook you can’t wriggle off do you Pete?

  5. //But they’ve torn up the rules because they were inconvenient.//

    Whether this is true or not (and I doubt if it is), you’re giving us yet another example of how worthless the British “constitution” is, just as nobody regularly proves how ineffectual the monarchy is as well as ATW’s leading traditionalist.

    If a parliamentary chairman doesn’t like the rules, he can just tear them up.

  6. Noel – You know best in Germany.

  7. One thing Pete got definitely wrong is the claim that the people are boiling with anger. The overwhelming mood of the British people over Brexit is bemusement bordering on boredom. For every rare angry pitchfork wielding protester there are a million others expressing droll tweets on their smartphones. No matter what happens with Brexit there will be no riots. Half a dozen burly Brexiteers in yellow jackets hassling Anna Soubry do not a peasants revolt make.

  8. The political class and the establishment = The gifts that just keep giving. 🙂

    Layer by layer the thin veneer of our so called democracy is being peeled away. It will show once and for all how things truly work and, that voting really does not change anything under the current system. And only the really thick, or those for ideological reason do not care, are turning a blind eye to all this.

    President Vladimir Putin was right when he said after the referendum result something like; Now we will see if ‘they’ can live by the standard of democracy they set of others ?”

  9. Addendum

    Sorry. Just found the exact quote.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/vladimir-putin-brexit-eu-referendum-long-term-traumatic-effect-on-uk-and-europe-economy-diplomacy-a7113156.html

  10. Layer by layer the thin veneer of our so called democracy is being peeled away. It will show once and for all how things truly work and, that voting really does not change anything under the current system. And only the really thick, or those for ideological reason do not care, are turning a blind eye to all this.

    Precisely.

    If voting ever changed anything, they would simply find a way to ban it.

  11. Layer by layer the thin veneer of our so called democracy is being peeled away.

    How so? Britain is a Parliamentary Democracy, government tried to do something and parliament didn’t like it so sought to change it. Brexiteers didn’t like it either so they pathetically attempted to bully Bercow over procedure as opposed to content.

    It wasn’t a million years ago either that there was wailing and gnashing of teeth and the ‘thin veneer of our so called democracy’ was trying to be peeled away by those same Brexiteers when it was found by three High Court judges, (remember ‘enemies of the people?’), that enectment of Art 50 would have to go to a parliamentary vote and the Brexis thought that their sacred Brexit would be thwarted.

  12. Paul

    The choice to either Remain or Leave the EU was given to we the people to decide. Parliament clearly stated that it was our decision. They thought, wrongly, that we would simply vote to Remain.

    After Cameron resigned and the present incumbent took office at Number 10, we had a General Election. The central part of both Conservative and Labour manifestos were Leaving the EU. That is why they got 80% of the votes and, the Lib Dems who wanted to Remain in the EU lost seats and vote share.

    Parliament should be for Leave. It has been given a mandate twice over to do so. Now they wish to go back on this. This is not democracy, not even close. But as I said earlier, a lot of people are having that moment like, Neo did in the film Matrix.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7W2I9FGF9U

    Keep popping those Blue pills, Paul. keep popping the blue pills.

    😉

  13. “That is why they got 80% of the votes and, the Lib Dems who wanted to Remain in the EU lost seats and vote share.”

    Actually the Liberal Democrats gain seats. They lost a small amount of vote share (7.4% down from 7.9% in 2015) but they gained seats (12 seats from 8). They lost 4 seats – 1 to Plaid, 1 to the Tories and 2 to Labour. They also gained 8 – 5 from the Tories, 3 from the SNP.

    Additionally there is no evidence to suggest that Labour’s vote share came about because they backed leaving the European Union. Since then Labour have changed their official position to everything is on the table (including a second referendum), with the bulk of their MPs supporting a second referendum – and Labour’s standing in the polls has remained largely constant.

    “This is not democracy, not even close.”

    They are democratically elected. They are not delegates but representatives. And if you think they are doing a bad job don’t vote for MP at the next election.

  14. *don’t vote for your MP

  15. Paul –

    Brexiteers didn’t like it either so they pathetically attempted to bully Bercow over procedure as opposed to content.

    It’s usually a bad idea, as you demonstrate, to talk about things of which you are ignorant.

  16. Mark B –

    You and I will never agree with the anti-democrats in here (Paul, Seamus, Noel et al.) It’s because in our culture a promise is sacred. In their culture it’s a tactic.

  17. I have no issue with democracy Pete (unlike you who has spent your entire time on ATW complaining about democracy).

    The MPs are democratically elected. Nothing they can do is an affront to democracy because they are democracy elected.

    “It’s because in our culture a promise is sacred. In their culture it’s a tactic.”

    Sure it is. Keep telling yourself that.

  18. *democratically elected

  19. And I think you’ll find it is you who is disagreeing with democracy (with regards to Paul, Noel and myself). For Paul, Noel and myself the only Brexit result that actually matters was 56% Remain – 44% Leave.

  20. Seamus –

    I have been explaining that democracy is a nonsense. I was right.

    What happens in NI and the wider UK is of no concern to Noel. He’s a foreigner. It’s noted in passing that your concern for the opinions of unionist voters is the purest bullshit.

    As I said, it’s just tactics with some people. No principles, just tactics.

  21. “It’s noted in passing that your concern for the opinions of unionist voters is the purest bullshit.”

    It’s not actually. However Northern Ireland voted to remain. So leave all you like. Just leave us alone when you are doing it.

    If the UK had allowed Northern Ireland to remain from the beginning then Brexit would have been thoroughly uncomplicated.

    It was the UK’s insistence in dragging Northern Ireland out with them that has caused the bulk of the mess.

  22. Keep popping those Blue pills, Paul. keep popping the blue pills.
    Oh he will.

    The overdose was consumed quite some considerable time ago.

    I don’t get it?

    What is it with the left, and the globalist elite, and their new empire?

  23. It’s because in our culture a promise is sacred

    You wouldn’t know truth let alone something sacred if it booted you up the hole Pete:

    The Single Market is the EEA, the European Economic Area. No-one is proposing to leave it, no-one is campaigning to leave it, and the UK will not leave it . The referendum is about whether or not the UK will remain in the EU. The question has nothing to do with the Single Market

    Parliament clearly stated that it was our decision. They thought, wrongly, that we would simply vote to Remain.

    Mark, I refer you to Pete’s comments and ask you to look at my 8.43 above. ‘Out’ clearly doesn’t mean ‘out’, and if so:

    The quote I use at 10.29 above are comments from yourself from the 20th of June 2016. They mean one of three things:

    – You were lying

    – You didn’t understand the full import of the referendum question

    – Someone lied to you about the connotations of Brexit and you believed them

    Any one of these when extrapolated onto the wider electorate is sufficient in itself to warrant another lash.

  24. It’s not actually. However Northern Ireland voted to remain. So leave all you like. Just leave us alone when you are doing it.

    Maybe we should have done what Brussels done, and instead of bailing you out with loans, we should have just “left you alone”?

    That Brussels bus is coming, and poor old Ireland, will be thrown u dear it.

    Brussels have played their vassal state of Ireland like a fiddle.

  25. *under

  26. The quote I use at 10.29 above are comments from yourself from the 20th of June 2016. They mean one of three things:

    – You were lying

    – You didn’t understand the full import of the referendum question

    – Someone lied to you about the connotations of Brexit and you believed them

    Here we go..

    Zzzzzzzzzzzzz

    Yawn..

  27. “Maybe we should have done what Brussels done, and instead of bailing you out with loans, we should have just “left you alone”?”

    You mean the loan that the UK turned profit on? It was a loan. It wasn’t charity.

    And again – if you want Brexit go ahead a do it. But don’t drag us down with you. If the UK announced that they were leaving the EU, leaving the Single Market, leaving the Customs Union etc… but Northern Ireland would remain in all of them – then I would support that plan.

  28. What happens in NI and the wider UK is of no concern to Noel. He’s a foreigner.

    So it is, with some ex paddy who lives in Spain.

    Plastic paddies.

  29. You mean the loan that the UK turned profit on? It was a loan. It wasn’t charity.

    Ireland was a basket case.

    We showed charity.

    At least show some form of respect for your old masters.

    Because your new masters obviously couldn’t give a fuck.

  30. Four comments.

    MourneReg was right 🙂

  31. I can possibly think of one.

    But are there any real Irish EU citizens here on ATW, who actually live in Ireland?

  32. “We showed charity.”

    Nope. You don’t make profit on charity. It was a loan. Paid back in full.

    Again if you want Brexit leave us out of it. But if you try to drag us down with it don’t be surprised if we try to stop Brexit in its entirety.

  33. I live in Ireland.

  34. Four comments.

    MourneReg was right 🙂

    But four different comments.

    Unlike you, who just parrots the same vquestion, again, and again and again.

    Until ultimately, you bore everyone into submission, or the Off button.

    Paul

    You really, seriously are a bore.?

    😏

  35. Seamus, on January 10th, 2019 at 2:25 PM Said:
    I live in Ireland.

    Seamus.

    Then its my pleasure to engage with a real Irishman.

  36. Nope. You don’t make profit on charity. It was a loan. Paid back in full.

    How much did your new masters at Brussels loan you?

  37. If there’s anything that demonstrates why the Irish Brexit negotiaters and planners were four steps ahead of their Brit counterparts it’s this:

    April 2018. Irish launch an enormous ‘Brexit busting’ ferry which will allow hundreds of thousands of additional tonnes of freight go to and from the Continent each year, bypassing Britain and the border controls and paperwork that may be inevitable if a hard Brexit becomes a reality:

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/brexit-busting-ferry-launched-from-dublin-port-1.3468760

    December 2018: Britain awards £13.8 million to a firm to run ferries. A firm which has never ran a ferry service, has no ships and takes its terms and conditions from a fast food delivery service:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/03/brexit-freight-ferry-firm-appears-all-geared-up-to-deliver-pizzas

    Is it really any wonder Britain’s handeling of Brexit is a laughing stock?

  38. Nope. You don’t make profit on charity. It was a loan. Paid back in full.

    How much did your new masters at Brussels loan you?

    I do know that as of 2011 Britain owed us €9 bn

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15748696

  39. Paul

    I read VERY carefully the question on the ballot paper. I KNEW what I was voting for. Leaving the EU, the Single Market, the Customs Union and the ECJ. I thought that parliament might have chosen the Norway Option, which is what I would have prefered as a stage on the path to Third Country Status, but it wasn’t to be. We are were we are because Remainers lied and continue to do so.

    That Brussels bus is coming, and poor old Ireland, will be thrown u dear it.

    Brussels have played their vassal state of Ireland like a fiddle.

    Pete

    Look at this:

    I really do not need to go into details as to what this will all mean to the RoI but, it has asked that should the UK go all FULL BREXIT it will need a bailout. I do not expect that bailout to come without strings attached. One of them that they do not obstruct EVER CLOSER UNION which the Irish government signed when it joined the then EEC.

    Seamus

    Whatever way you want to spin it, Remain is the minority view in the Shires. The politicians exist to represent the people and air our grievances. That job is being passed to Brussels without our consent.

  40. “The politicians exist to represent the people and air our grievances. That job is being passed to Brussels without our consent.”

    It ought to be the happiness and glory of a representative to live in the strictest union, the closest correspondence, and the most unreserved communication with his constituents.

    Their wishes ought to have great weight with him; their opinion, high respect; their business, unremitted attention. It is his duty to sacrifice his repose, his pleasures, his satisfactions, to theirs; and above all, ever, and in all cases, to prefer their interest to his own.

    But his unbiassed opinion, his mature judgment, his enlightened conscience, he ought not to sacrifice to you, to any man, or to any set of men living. These he does not derive from your pleasure; no, nor from the law and the constitution. They are a trust from Providence, for the abuse of which he is deeply answerable.

    Your representative owes you, not his industry only, but his judgment; and he betrays, instead of serving you, if he sacrifices it to your opinion.

  41. “I really do not need to go into details as to what this will all mean to the RoI but, it has asked that should the UK go all FULL BREXIT it will need a bailout. I do not expect that bailout to come without strings attached. One of them that they do not obstruct EVER CLOSER UNION which the Irish government signed when it joined the then EEC.”

    From your link … the EU Commission seeks to end unanimity for tax changes. Any change to the unanimity needed for tax would require unanimity. Meaning Ireland would have to agree to any changes.

  42. We are were we are because Remainers lied and continue to do so.

    I don’t think it’s the Remainers lying above Mark?

    Look at this

    A move which the Republic is likely to strongly oppose […]

    The ending of unanimity in any area of tax policy would itself require agreement from all countries and this is seen as most unlikely in advance of next May’s European Parliament elections and the subsequent end of the current commission’s mandate next November

    It’s a no chancer.

  43. April 2018. Irish launch an enormous ‘Brexit busting’ ferry

    Lol!

    😂

  44. From your link … the EU Commission seeks to end unanimity for tax changes. Any change to the unanimity needed for tax would require unanimity. Meaning Ireland would have to agree to any changes.

    Article 48.

    Lisbon treaty.

    Ireland have new masters.

    Ireland need masters, they just can’t cope on their own.

  45. Article 48 of the Lisbon Treaty –

    You mean the Article that still explicitly states that any treaty changes must be ratified by each member state (in their usual manner)?

    So any treaty change (even via Article 48) must be ratified by referendum in the Republic of Ireland.

  46. Seams.

    “Tax harmonisation” is coming to the Brussels vassal state of Ireland, lime it, or lump it.

    Now, again..how much did your new empire masters loan poor Ireland when it was in the shit?

    And again, I just don’t get it, what is it, with left and the globalist elite Empire builders?

    British empire = bad

    Brussels empire = good.

    You lefties sure are strange..

  47. Any tax harmonisation would have to be approved by the Republic of Ireland. They have a veto over it.

    You do seem to lack an ability to read.

  48. Yeah, Dublin is really going to prevent the EU’s core tax plans.

  49. “Yeah, Dublin is really going to prevent the EU’s core tax plans.”

    Yeah they will. And there is nothing the EU can do about it.

  50. From your link … the EU Commission seeks to end unanimity for tax changes. Any change to the unanimity needed for tax would require unanimity. Meaning Ireland would have to agree to any changes.

    No, Dublin won’t.

    And there is nothing Dublin can do about it.

  51. Dublin will.

  52. And Dublin won’t agree to them. That is how this works. The EU proposes treaty changes. They must be approved by the member states. On approval by the member states they must be ratified by the member states.

    So even the fast track procedure as described in Article 48 would be subject to ratification by the member states. If one withholds ratification then it doesn’t pass.

    Additionally Article 48 is specific. No new treaty change that can increase the powers of the EU can be fast tracked under Article 48.

  53. Article 48 of the Lisbon Treaty –

    You mean the Article that still explicitly states that any treaty changes must be ratified by each member state (in their usual manner)?

    So any treaty change (even via Article 48) must be ratified by referendum in the Republic of Ireland.

    Seamus:

    You really think that the intricacies of European decision making are known or important to these obstinate anti EU ignormamouses Seamus?

    New masters, something something something, Palaces of Brussels, something something something EU Empire something something something.

    Pete, you’re either ignorant of EU voting regulations or are deliberately being disingenuous.

  54. And there is nothing Dublin can do about it.

    Care to explain that?

  55. Seamus –

    The Republic of Ireland is a small, and frankly insignificant country, in the EU scheme of things. A deal will be done. Dublin will be bought off. But there’s no way that it will block what the EU wants.

  56. “But there’s no way that it will block what the EU wants.”

    If it is bad for Ireland then they will. Not least because any change would have to be ratified by referendum.

  57. Seamus.

    Dublin won’t.

    Dublin has new masters.

    Take the digital tax, what Brussels wants Brussels gets.

    Now.

    Can the the only real Irishman on ATW, who appears to be very learned, answer this..?

    Now, again..how much did your new empire masters loan poor Ireland when it was in the shit?

    Its pointless asking Paul, the plastic Republican, he understands about as much about Ireland as any of us other Brits.

  58. Ireland has no masters but the Irish people. And I don’t know how much money, if any, the Irish people loaned during that period of time.

    If any change is not supported by the Irish government, and the Irish people, then it will not pass.

  59. If it is bad for Ireland then they will. Not least because any change would have to be ratified by referendum.

    Not according to article 48 of the Lisbon Treaty, which Ireland voted on…twice.

    You have new masters now.

  60. “Not according to article 48 of the Lisbon Treaty”

    Have you ever actually read Article 48?

    What’s the matter – too many big words for you?

    Any change under Article 48 must not increase EU powers and must by ratified by all member states.

    It’s not complicated.

  61. Seamus, on January 10th, 2019 at 4:11 PM Said:
    Ireland has no masters but the Irish people. And I don’t know how much money, if any, the Irish people loaned during that period of time.

    Your new masters reside at Brussels.

    Seamus, you know “lots” – so, how much to the nearest Euro, did they lend you when the vassal state of Ireland were in the shit?

  62. Care to explain that?

    That’ll be a no then.

    Ignorant soundbites and ridiculous phrases will have to suffice.

  63. Any change under Article 48 must not increase EU powers and must by ratified by all member states.

    So, you admit.

    You haven’t read it?

  64. “Your new masters reside at Brussels.”

    Nope. The masters of the Irish people are the Irish people.

    “Any change under Article 48 must not increase EU powers and must by ratified by all member states.”

    I have read it. You clearly haven’t.

  65. “You really think that the intricacies of European decision making are known or important to these obstinate anti EU ignormamouses Seamus?”

    I don’t expect them to, not least because the EU can be complicated. But when they are factually incorrect – and have those facts pointed out to them – you’d expect them to stop spouting the same auld bollocks time after time.

  66. Seamus.

    Yep.

    Good luck with that one..

  67. Don’t need luck. Got a veto instead.

  68. You’d expect them to stop spouting the same auld bollocks time after time.

    Good luck with that one. Einstein’s theory on insanity comes to mind.

  69. Seamus.

    Seamus, you know “lots” – so, how much to the nearest Euro, did they lend you when the vassal state of Ireland were in the shit?

    ?

    Is the answer…zero?

  70. What vassal state?

  71. Seamus:

    Ignorant soundbites and ridiculous phrases will have to suffice

    Expect nothing less.

  72. So it would seem Paul. But then intellectual honesty and Brexiteers don’t normally go hand in hand.

    Though to be fair intellectual and Brexiteer doesn’t normally go hand in hand.

  73. Seamus.

    Good luck, the best of British to you, you are going to need it.

    EU tax plan ‘is a bigger threat to Ireland than Brexit’
    State could lose €4bn in taxes if corporate tax harmonisation i

    https://www.irishtimes.com

    Hmmm.

    Brussels Vs the vassal state of Ireland.

    I will put my cash on Brussels..thanks.

  74. Seamus

    Seamus, you know “lots” – so, how much to the nearest Euro, did they lend you when the vassal state of Ireland were in the shit?

    ?

  75. EU tax plan ‘is a bigger threat to Ireland than Brexit’
    State could lose €4bn in taxes if corporate tax harmonisation

    …….from Sept 2017.

  76. “Seamus, you know “lots” – so, how much to the nearest Euro, did they lend you when the vassal state of Ireland were in the shit?”

    What vassal state of Ireland? And who lent it to them. Come on – use your big boy words.

    “Brussels Vs the vassal state of Ireland.”

    Because it isn’t Brussels vs Ireland. The EU is made up of its member states. It is subservient to its member states.

    Which is why any change the Commission wants must be approved by the member states.

  77. Paul

    Excuse me, but do you mind?

    I’m trying to have a conversation with Seamus. A real Irishman. Not some plastic EU citizen who lives in Pamplona…or somewhere..

    Thanks for the pointless europhile input anyway.

    Paul certainly knows who his new masters are.

    Fair play on that point.

    Some Rebuplican you are?

    😏

  78. Seamus, on January 10th, 2019 at 4:28 PM Said:
    “Seamus, you know “lots” – so, how much to the nearest Euro, did they lend you when the vassal state of Ireland were in the shit?”

    What vassal state of Ireland? And who lent it to them. Come on – use your big boy words.

    The British lent you the cash..

    Now.

    You know “lots” Seamus..apparently.

    Apart from, how much did your beloved EU lend you?

    To the nearest Euro, or £ in real money?

  79. €85 billion I believe was the total – though partly EU, partly EFSF (which is Eurozone member states), and party IMF.

  80. Harri,

    Stop being an ignorant know nothing. I’ll speak when, where and to whom I wish. Thanks, something something something.

    You were caught out using some vaccuous guff from 2017, ( and very slyly not providing a direct link to it). Take it on the chin.

  81. Just looked a little deeper. Of the €85 billion – €17.5 billion was provided directly by the Republic of Ireland. The remaining €67.5 billion was divided equally three ways – €22.5 billion from the EU, €22.5 billion from the Eurozone, and €22.5 billion from the IMF.

    So the combined EU funding was €45 billion.

  82. Paul McMahon, on January 10th, 2019 at 4:43 PM Said:
    Harri,

    Stop being an ignorant know nothing.

    But its good enough for you?

    😏

    Seamus.

    Yep.

    And the interest rate was higher than Greece.

  83. Paul McMahon, on January 10th, 2019 at 4:43 PM Said:
    Harri,

    Stop being an ignorant know nothing. I’ll speak when, where and to whom I wish. Thanks, something something something.

    Paul

    If its okay by you, I personally prefer to speak to a real Irishman about Irish affairs.

    Thanks.

  84. Compelling argument, Mr Soundbite.

    And the interest rate was higher than Greece.

    So first of all the EU is a bastard for not lending money and then when cuaght out and corrected on that one it’s a bastard for lending money at a percentage rate of interest?

    Jesus Christ, irony explosion. Barrels being scraped everywhere by the know nothing from 2017.

  85. I personally don’t care what you prefer, I’ll speak when, where and to whom I wish, thanks.

  86. The remaining €67.5 billion was divided equally three ways – €22.5 billion from the EU, €22.5 billion from the Eurozone, and €22.5 billion from the IMF.

    “British, German and American taxpayers.”

  87. Harri,

    Are you not the type that argues that people of Pakistani descent in the UK aren’t British but are Pakistani? And people of African descent in the UK aren’t British but are African?

    So why is an Irishman, born and bred in Ireland, living somewhere else not an Irishman?

  88. Paul

    You are an EU citizen. Nothing more and nothing less, Living in Pamplona or somewhere…of other.

    You are about as Irish as Pete Moore.

    Now, stop interrupting a discussion between a real Irishman and myself, a real Englishman.

  89. So why is an Irishman, born and bred in Ireland, living somewhere else not an Irishman?

    Because his Aberdonian master said it before and we already know how Harri loves to emulate Pete and Allan as he’s incapable of originality or independent though past soundbites ‘clever quips’ and links about something or something.

  90. Seamus, on January 10th, 2019 at 4:56 PM Said:
    Harri,

    Are you not the type that argues that people of Pakistani descent in the UK aren’t British but are Pakistani? And people of African descent in the UK aren’t British but are African?

    Seamus.

    People who are born in Pakistan or Africa, are not British.

    Anyone who is born in Britain is British.

    What they can never be is English.

    Paul is a plastic Irishman, that much is clear.

  91. Surely someone born in England is English?

  92. Because his Aberdonian master said it before and we already know how Harri loves to emulate Pete and Allan as he’s incapable of originality or independent though past soundbites ‘clever quips’ and links about something or something

    Zzzzzzzzzzzzz

    Yawn.

    Now, back hopefully to a real conversation with a real Irishman.

    Not some plastic paddy who lives in Pamplona allegedly… Or somewhere or other.

  93. incapable of originality or independent though

    You mean “thought”?

  94. Seamus, on January 10th, 2019 at 5:03 PM Said:
    Surely someone born in England is English?

    Nope.

    English is special

    British, yes, English..nope.

  95. Does that mean most of the England football team aren’t English?

    And has someone alerted FIFA?

  96. Does that mean most of the England football team aren’t English?

    And has someone alerted FIFA?

    Yep.

    I hate football.

    I would rather watch grass grow.

  97. I imagine we could probably stretch it to most sports. Rugby for example. Big Itoje – not English apparently.

  98. Seamus.

    At least the pretend Irish Republican has stopped interrupting now.

    Y sobre el tiempo, el aburrimiento.

    😀

  99. Seamus, on January 10th, 2019 at 5:10 PM Said:
    I imagine we could probably stretch it to most sports. Rugby for example. Big Itoje – not English apparently.

    Yup..

  100. Pete Moore also is a little halfbreed so he isn’t English. Your wife’s Slovakian isn’t she? So your kids aren’t English.

  101. Seamus.

    Correct.

    My girls are Slovak.

    The boys are English, born to an English Mother, by an English Father, born in England.

    The girls were born on Bratislava, Slovakia, by a Slovakian Mother. And an English Father..me.

    They now live in England, but are Slovak.

    My girls asr about as English as Paul McMahon is Irish.

    😀

  102. What do they consider themselves?

  103. Seamus

    Slovakian

    100%

  104. Seamus.

    And its safer in Slovakia.

    No immigrants, Arabs or Africans.

  105. Fair enough then. That’s for them to decide.

    On the other hand my cousin was born in London. His mother is Irish. His father is Turkish.

    He’s English, I’m sorry to say.

  106. Seamusz

    I do believe, please feel free to check.

    The Czech Republic is possibly the 5th safest country to live and work in.

    Again, apart from me, no immigrants, Arabs or Africans.

    We have a second family home just outside Brno, in the Tatras, along with the main family home in Old Town Racca Bratislava, let’s call it escape plans B and C.

  107. On the other hand my cousin was born in London. His mother is Irish. His father is Turkish.

    He’s English, I’m sorry to say.

    Sorry.

    He’s not.

  108. Its a pleasure to note the ATW repetitive bore and shitstirrer in Chief plastic Irishman and pretend Republican, Paul McMahon has takes wise advice, and butted out..

    Wonderful

    😀

  109. “He’s not.”

    He really is.

  110. Seamus.

    He’s not born to English parents.

    So, I’m afraid he’s not.

  111. Seamus.

    What he actually is, is British.

  112. British isn’t real. He’s English.

  113. Seamus, on January 10th, 2019 at 5:46 PM Said:
    British isn’t real. He’s English.

    Lucky bloke.

    He’s special then..

  114. Not really. He is English but then I wouldn’t wish the affliction on anyone.

  115. Seamus, on January 10th, 2019 at 5:56 PM Said:
    Not really. He is English but then I wouldn’t wish the affliction on anyone.

    Seamus.

    We can’t all win the lottery of life.

  116. “We can’t all win the lottery of life.”

    He nearly did.

    His mother’s Irish.

    Always bad when you get half the numbers but no money.

  117. I know there will never be an EU Army, because some bloke in Spain and Nick Clegg told me so, but just in case, does Ireland, as military pointless and neutral as it is, have any say in the proceedings?

    In an extraordinary article for leading German newspaper Handelsblatt entitled “Europe is forming an army”, Germany’s defence minister Ursula von der Leyen has hammered another nail in the Remain referendum lie that the idea of an EU army is a “dangerous fantasy”. It’s a dangerous reality…

    https://order-order.com/2019/01/10/german-defence-minister-united-eu-military-becoming-reality/

    Comments:

    WorldTradeExit_Thank_You
    an hour ago

    How ironic, if the UK snowflakes blindly following their EU Masters, thwart Brexit and then get conscripted into an EU Army

  118. His mother’s Irish.

    And his Father Turkish.

    And now their son is English.

    They should both be feeling very seriously proud.

  119. Always bad when you get half the numbers but no money.

    Seamus.

    He’s English, not Irish.

    We lent you the money remember.

    😏

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