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I See, Said The Blind Man

By Mahons On January 10th, 2019

We are told that President Trump will travel to Texas to be seen seeing the southern border. He is reluctant to go according to reports and is doing so at the advice of his advisors. He will meet with some unpaid border control agents. It is unclear if he will sing the Yellow Rose of Texas. Adding to his legacy of false statements is nearly certain.

He hasn’t convinced Congress or the mation of the need for his wall. And if he wanted to see an illegal alien he doesnt have to travel to Texas, some reportedly work at his club in Florida.

Via Con Dios Mr. President. Try the brisket.

235 Responses to “I See, Said The Blind Man”

  1. Many Trumpers pretend to care about the Constitution when it suits them

    They don’t realize that the Congress has the greatest control on spending, not the president.

    And Trump has been the most incompetent negotiator in the history of negotiating with his tweets and insults and bluster and walking out of meetings.

    This kind of stuff might work on ” The Apprentice ” but its not how major negotiations tend to be done in the real world of politics, or business.

    He doesn’t know what he’s doing. This is negotiating malpractice on display.

    If you wanted a wall, you have to hate Trump, because his hijinks are a major reason why there won’t be one.

  2. Via Con Dios Mr. President.

    Someone’s ready for the future America.

  3. Republicans should be careful of what they wish for. They are effectively saying that the President can declare a national emergency – with that emergency being that he can’t agree a deal with Congress.

    Historical precedent suggests that whenever the Presidency assumes a new power it rarely, if ever, surrenders it.

    This would be one of the largest expansions of Presidential power, an almost Caesar like assumption of power, where the President assumes power to override the will of Congress simply because he can’t get an agreement with Congress.

    The Ancient Romans had a word for the role that Donald Trump is positioning himself into. Dictator.

  4. Trump ” only I can fix it ” has always had deep authoritarian tendencies

    His business experience is actually harmful, as in that company he had no oversight from a board or any other strong internal check of any kind.

  5. Seamus –

    That’s all very interesting. I’m glad that my words have gone heeded. But President Trump is not creating any new powers. The National Emergencies Act 1976 has existed since (this one’s for Democrats) … 1976.

    Obama used it to declare a state of emergency to deal with swine flu, and the Bolsheviks weren’t shrieking about states of emergencies then. So we’ll have no fake outrage now that President Trump is trying to clean up a legacy mess going back decades.

  6. “Obama used it to declare a state of emergency to deal with swine flu, and the Bolsheviks weren’t shrieking about states of emergencies then.”

    Because that was an actual emergency to deal with an actual threat. This will be the President declaring an emergency because he can’t get Congress to agree with him.

    So when a future Democratic President can’t get a Republican Congress to back his healthcare plan – out comes an emergency. When a future Democratic President can’t get a Republican Congress to back his education plan – out comes an emergency.

  7. Phantom –

    You’ve often criticised Republicans for not advancing alternatives to Obamacare.

    Democrats assure us that they border security seriously. Some lesser known Democrats (the Clintons, Obama, Schumer et al.) have even advocated building a wall. Can you believe the madness of these people?!

    So – what alternatives do you advance to adequately secure the border?

  8. No Seamus. The emergency is that a slow-motion invasion has been underway for decades.

  9. Definitely try the brisket!

    The emergency is that a slow-motion invasion has been underway for decades.

    That is absolutely correct.

  10. “No Seamus. The emergency is that a slow-motion invasion has been underway for decades.”

    Not really. Firstly if it is slow-motion then it is unlikely an emergency. That it is already declining means it is unlikely an emergency. And if it is an emergency it was an emergency decades ago.

    The change is that Trump can’t get Congress to support him. That is the emergency.

  11. Charles in Texas: “That is absolutely correct.”

    Seamus in Ireland: “Not really.”

    Hmmm … who to believe?

  12. Pete,

    Does that mean you will bow to my superior knowledge of the border in Ireland then?

    I am closer to it that you are. So by your own metric I must know more about it than you do.

  13. And if it is an emergency it was an emergency decades ago.

    Meet Operation Wetback.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJ3u2Cc6kyE

  14. So it was an emergency in 1954. What about between 1955 and 2019. No emergency then? It has just become a problem again in the last week?

  15. I condemn Trump as being incompetent and utterly unfit and I have long condemned the Democrats for evolving into a pro illegal immigration party, which is relatively new for them.

    I would

    a) make it illegal to give any government benefit ( federal, state or city ) to any illegal
    b) impose exceptional penalties to anyone that knowingly hires any illegal
    c) make it illegal to have sanctuary cities

    None of the above is anti immigrant. I don’t propose to stop legal immigration, and will be open to increasing legal immigration as per the needs of the US

    I unfortunately don’t see the above as politically feasible, but if implemented, it would solve most illegal immigration overnight – without a wall.

    But I am open to additional fences / walls that are justified, and would give the border guys all the tools and manpower they might need.

  16. Phantom –

    So you would take legal measure which exceed anything proposed by President Trump, and still build a wall.

    I can only assume that you criticise your president for not going far enough.

  17. I condemn him for botching the negotiation with his erratic conduct.

    ( and again, don’t praise the Democrats for anything that they have done. They are a pro illegal immigration party at this point )

  18. He hasn’t convinced Congress or the mation of the need for his wall.

    The Mation (maroon) has wanted a wall and was promised one since 1986.

  19. Phantom, It seems that you are saying a pox on both their houses at this point. For the life of me though, I don’t know what Trump is supposed to do. The Dems are unwilling to give $1 to the wall. How is he supposed to negotiate with that?

    Since you negotiate for a living, I ask the sincere question. What is Trump to do??

  20. Charles,

    Give them something they want in exchange?

  21. Seamus, in a word, yes. But they don’t seem to want ANYTHING in exchange for a wall. The President has floated the idea of amnesty for 700,000 DACA children, but was not even considered by the party opposite. They are not negotiating in good faith, IMO.

  22. They are in a position to ask for anything Seamus, but they don’t care if amnesty for everyone here illegally is given to them written in blood all over 20 million. But the cost is a wall and they still say no.

  23. He floated an idea of an amnesty and then pulled away from it. The main deal he is offering is a wall in exchange for ending the shutdown. The Democrats said no to that deal.

    If he is serious about the offer then publicly make the offer. A wall in exchange for a Dreamer amnesty.

  24. The Mation?

    Charles – the Democrats have already agreed to more than a billion dollars for border security.

  25. it’s like talking to a wall……

    over a year ago he publically said he’d give them amnesty for the DACA just fund the wall and the said no. And the stupid rinos lacked the balls to act.

    The shut down effects less than a million people out of 350 million… no one else feels a thing except the hysterics of chuck and nancy.

    Trump won the republican Primary on the wall, he won the democrat union vote on the wall. The majority of Americans despite heritage, race, or party affiliation see the vast explosion of unregulated people coming in and taking middle class jobs and they want it stopped.

  26. Mahons, on January 10th, 2019 at 5:46 PM Said:
    The Mation?

    check your spelling…….

  27. Actually a year ago he mentioned it then pulled the offer. It was during the last shutdown. The reason he pulled the offer was because he got flak from “the base” for making the offer. He couldn’t deliver the House Freedom Caucus and Paul Ryan wasn’t willing to move on it without them.

  28. You mentioned Mation at 519, hence my question.

  29. You have a typo in the opening blurb.

    “He hasn’t convinced Congress or the mation of the need for his wall. And if he wanted to see an illegal alien he doesnt have to travel to Texas, some reportedly work at his club in Florida.”

  30. Patrick, you know the guy who always spells things correctly and has perfect command of the English language, is trying to be funny.

  31. Charles

    The best negotiations are often done in private. Trump has done nearly nothing on this in private.

    He made the wall a big campaign promise, as was his right, but he repeatedly made the idiotic promise to make Mexico pay for it. And he pretty much condemned Mexicans as a bunch of dope dealers and rapists. That is how he set the stage.

    Since the election, its been a large number of bizarre insults, and endless number of idiotic tweets and an ambush press conference sprung on Pelosi and Schumer.

    If he had instead done some entirely unpublicized and respectful negotiations, he would have got something.

    If Trump hadn’t carried on like a clown for the first two years of his presidency, its possible that the Democrats wouldn’t have had such a good election in the House.

    I do formal meetings, often, because I must, but I usually strive to have the deal done before the meeting even happens. You have quiet verbal discussions before then, so that the meeting is a formality. No one is ever insulted, no one is ever surprised with a gotcha moment. And Trump has done the opposite of that.

    If you want a relationship that will last over the time over which tough things must be negotiated and upheld by all sides, you do the negotiation in a 180 degree different way than what we have seen.

    He is substantially correct in what he seeks on illegal immigration, but every part of this negotiation has been botched by the president.

  32. Phantom –

    What’s to negotiate?

    Mr Trump won the presidential election, in great part because of the promise to wall off the wetbacks. Democrats get to stand aside and let it happen.

  33. And Democrats won the House election to stop him.

    Republicans get to stand aside and let that happen.

  34. Seamus, on January 10th, 2019 at 6:25 PM Said:
    Patrick, you know the guy who always spells things correctly and has perfect command of the English language, is trying to be funny.

    hho me

  35. Republicans stood aside and let it happen.

    Going by your anti-democratic standards, the GOP is entitled to stop Democrats from getting into the House.

  36. Trump’s negotiating style since he was a young man is ” I win, you lose, and I spend the rest of my life bragging about how I crushed you “.

    That’s been his MO since ” The Art of the Deal ” ghost-written book was released decades ago.

    Why would anyone want to give him anything?

  37. I’m not anti-democratic

  38. Thank you Phantom. Your insight into negotiating is interesting. Having the deal done before the meeting even takes place is an eye-opener for me.

    When both sides have taken such hardened positions in public, it is very hard to make any headway, I think.

  39. I’m not anti-democratic

    Seamus.

    I thought you supported the Brussels elite?

  40. I think the biggest problem is that compromise is increasingly becoming a bad word.

  41. Phantom, on January 10th, 2019 at 6:51 PM Said:
    Charles

    The best negotiations are often done in private. Trump has done nearly nothing on this in private.

    He made the wall a big campaign promise, as was his right, but he repeatedly made the idiotic promise to make Mexico pay for it. And he pretty much condemned Mexicans as a bunch of dope dealers and rapists. That is how he set the stage.

    Since the election, its been a large number of bizarre insults, and endless number of idiotic tweets and an ambush press conference sprung on Pelosi and Schumer.

    If he had instead done some entirely unpublicized and respectful negotiations, he would have got something.

    If Trump hadn’t carried on like a clown for the first two years of his presidency, its possible that the Democrats wouldn’t have had such a good election in the House.

    I do formal meetings, often, because I must, but I usually strive to have the deal done before the meeting even happens. You have quiet verbal discussions before then, so that the meeting is a formality. No one is ever insulted, no one is ever surprised with a gotcha moment. And Trump has done the opposite of that.

    If you want a relationship that will last over the time over which tough things must be negotiated and upheld by all sides, you do the negotiation in a 180 degree different way than what we have seen.

    He is substantially correct in what he seeks on illegal immigration, but every part of this negotiation has been botched by the president.

    oh pure bull they’ve been negotiating your way since Reagan and still no wall.

    60,000 dead a year….. nah we need no stinkin wall…

  42. As usual Harri you thought wrong.

  43. “60,000 dead a year”

    Who will not be saved by a wall. Almost all of the drugs crossing the US-Mexican border passes through legal entry points. So will continue to pass through a wall.

  44. Thanks Seamus. One nation under Odd.

  45. Charles

    Remember when Nixon went to China?

    I think that the biggest part of the early agreements had been agreed to by Kissinger and the Chinese before anyone knew the first thing about a visit.

    Some of the best negotiations are done in a quiet voice, without any publicity.

    Sotto voce.

    Not meant to trick anyone, quite the opposite.

    You always want your counterparts to save face, because you will need them in the future, as they will need you.

  46. Seamus, on January 10th, 2019 at 7:06 PM Said:
    As usual Harri you thought wrong.

    Sorry, my error.

    I thought you said you were not anti-Democratic, yet support the elite heading the Brussels “Project”?

    My bad.

  47. “I thought you said you were not anti-Democratic, yet support the elite heading the Brussels “Project”?”

    And again, as per the norm, you thought wrong.

  48. So Phantom, to get out of this mess we’re in, both sides are going to have to compromise, save face, and both are going to have to be able to claim victory. A tall order indeed!

  49. Seamus.

    So you think they can be reformed?

    Two hopes there..

    No Hope and Bob Hope.

  50. Seamus, on January 10th, 2019 at 7:07 PM Said:
    “60,000 dead a year”

    Who will not be saved by a wall. Almost all of the drugs crossing the US-Mexican border passes through legal entry points. So will continue to pass through a wall.

    That’s a lie a pure talking point from the dems.

    The drugs are ferried in by the mules all along the open border…. to say otherwise defies facts.

  51. Seamus –

    Your words betray you. You are a pro-globalist anti-democrat.

    Phantom –

    Are you paying the healthcare costs for 300,000 illegals?

    https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/01/09/new-york-city-care-comprehensive-health-care-plan-concerns/2522924002/

  52. “Your words betray you. You are a pro-globalist anti-democrat.”

    Nope.

  53. Pete

    Yes, unwillingly.

  54. NYC is screwed….. De Blasio’s a nutcase

  55. “That’s a lie a pure talking point from the dems.”

    Not so much the Democrats as Trump’s own Department of Homeland Security.

    “Mexican TCOs (transnational criminal organisations) [the Mexican Cartels] transport the bulk of their drugs over the Southwest Border through ports of entry (POEs) using passenger vehicles or tractor trailers. The drugs are typically secreted in hidden compartments when transported in passenger vehicles or comingled with legitimate goods when transported in tractor trailers.”

    That’s from the National Drug Threat Assessment by the Drug Enforcement Administration.

    DEA are all Democrats clearly.

  56. Patrick.

    60,000 dead a year….. nah we need no stinkin wall…

    Still sticking with that emotive nonsense Patrick.
    as has already been pointed out the wall will have almost zero effect on the flow of drugs into the USA. (The ones that are imported, not the ones that are manufactured in the US.) The drug dealers will just use a selection of thousands of other ways they can get drugs into the US.

  57. Strewth.

    In just one American city (admittedly a large one, but it’s still just one) 300,000 illegals are sucking up free health care.

  58. They’ve been sucking up free health care for a very long time

    A couple of decades ago, I know of an ( Irish ) illegal who got busted up in a construction accident.

    He spent some weeks in a hospital, got good care, and never paid one dime.

    There would be similar cases over the years all over the nation.

    That’s an extreme example of the ” free rider ”

    I spoke of in the nearly worthless ” debates ” we’ve had on healthcare here. Where you have people who pay nothing into the system using the system. That’s why you should not have any illegals, and why everyone of any means needs to pay something into the system.

    Otherwise, abuse will happen.

  59. Still sticking with that emotive nonsense Patrick.
    as has already been pointed out the wall will have almost zero effect on the flow of drugs into the USA. (The ones that are imported, not the ones that are manufactured in the US.) The drug dealers will just use a selection of thousands of other ways they can get drugs into the US.

    you have absolutely no idea about what you’re talking about.

  60. It’s you who has no idea Patrick. By emotively stating that a wall will stop the flow of drugs into the US or even reduce it by any significant amount is demonstrably incorrect.
    Countries the size of the US, with the huge amount of borders, ports and airports, cannot stop illegal drugs being imported by building a wall along one of their borders.

  61. If a wall will stop the flow of drugs into the US, then why does the mainland UK have a big inward flow of drugs? And it does.

    The mainland UK doesn’t have a land border with anyone, as most here may know.

  62. If a wall will stop the flow of drugs into the US, then why does the mainland UK have a big inward flow of drugs?

    1. We have many small airfields. Many small aircraft come into them, every day, from the Continent.

    2. Our great natural barrier is the English Channel. It’s the best wall any country ever had and has saved our bacon a few times. But it’s porous now. British governments don’t believe in patrolling it. So many small craft come in every day. Illegals are now coming in on dinghies. Drugs have come in on small craft for years. They come in through the Eurostar as well.

    We don’t have a land border with the Continent, but Eurostar has, in mobility terms, created one.

  63. Trump is now denying that he said Mexico would pay for the wall, yes really:

    “US President Donald Trump has insisted that Mexico will still pay for the border wall, claiming he never meant it would make a one-time payment. “Obviously I never meant Mexico would write a cheque,” Mr Trump said before travelling to McAllen, Texas.

    He says Mexico would “indirectly” fund the wall through a revamped trade deal, but a campaign memo shows he planned to compel the country to pay for the wall …. an archived campaign memo from 2016 outlines how he planned to “compel Mexico to make a one-time payment” of $5-10bn (£4bn-£8bn) for the wall.”

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-46827555

  64. Pete

    We have a zillion small airports and the vast shorelines of the East, Gulf and West coasts, Hawaii, Alaska and the Great Lakes too.

    That’s a lot of territory to cover.

    Peter

    Of course, but he never said what he said, he said.

  65. His lies get more shameless by the day.

  66. Phantom –

    Almost all of your small airfields and vast shorelines of the East, Gulf and West coasts, Hawaii, Alaska and the Great Lakes too are beyond the reach of small craft.

    But hey, don’t build the wall because you have big lakes in the north. It’s not a message of hope really.

  67. But the small airfields oF Texas, Florida and other places are well within the reach of small aircraft.

    And Arizona, New Mexico.

    Including in very thinly populated badlands areas, etc.

  68. Turning the left’s slogan against them…….

    https://bbs.thegoyimknow.to/uploads/default/original/4X/b/3/6/b36514f2b2f4f9c5b30bc1ec1fd758659f014ddc.jpeg

  69. The drugs will keep coming in through the legal points on entry. A wall won’t stop that.

  70. Mahons, on January 10th, 2019 at 11:20 PM Said:

    The drugs will keep coming in through the legal points on entry. A wall won’t stop that.

    The flow will be reduced

    https://nypost.com/2018/01/13/we-already-have-a-border-wall-and-it-works/

    The year before the wall was fully built in 2010, the volume of illegal drugs confiscated by the feds along the El Paso border hit 87,725 pounds. The year after, the amount of drug seizures plummeted to 43,783 pounds. Last year, they dropped even further to a total of 34,329, according to Border Patrol reports obtained by The Post.

    All told, a legion of empirical evidence supports the idea a southern border wall could, in fact, work. There is also anecdotal evidence. In local press accounts, El Paso residents and business owners alike have praised the fence, citing it as an effective deterrent to both illegal crossings and crime.

  71. I take it that no Trump supporters have ever used illegal drugs of any kind, in the past or now.

  72. I, as an El Paso resident, (as you Know) praise our fence!

  73. Be in no doubt, left-liberals want this in the US.

    https://nypost.com/2019/01/10/20-dead-in-grisly-mexican-gang-battle-near-us-border/

  74. https://twitter.com/barackobama/status/298519994587824129?lang=en

    Barack Obama
    ‏Verified account @BarackObama

    President Obama: “If there’s even one thing we can do, if there’s just one life we can save—we’ve got an obligation to try.” #NowIsTheTime
    11:54 AM – 4 Feb 2013

    #NowIsTheTimeForTheWall

    https://bbs.thegoyimknow.to/uploads/default/original/4X/b/3/6/b36514f2b2f4f9c5b30bc1ec1fd758659f014ddc.jpeg

  75. Douglas Murray points out that new walls are effective in Europe, so Trump’s wall may well be justified. It’s just a shame he lied about paying for it:

    “There are satisfactory arguments on both sides about the utility of building a wall along the southern border of the U.S. My personal view is that since the president was partly elected on the promise of building this wall, he should probably get a chance to build it and give at least some voters what they asked for.

    But it is not the practical but the moral objections to the president’s initiative that are so unutterably tired. For instance, one objection just made by Nancy Pelosi is that building a wall is “an immorality” and “not who we are as a nation.” Walls are also, according to Pelosi, an “old way of thinking.”

    In fact, in Europe — among many other places — walls are not an old way of thinking at all. In fact, they are a much newer way of thinking than anything Nancy Pelosi is offering. Since the European migrant crisis was at its height in 2015, countries across central and eastern Europe have begun erecting walls. I have gone to see a number of them, and very smart, modern fence-like things they are, with movement-detectors, drones to fly overhead, and more. When the Hungarian government erected their first wall (having had hundreds of thousands of people pour across their previously un-walled borders in a few months), they received some criticism from their neighbors. Only weeks later, these critics — including the government of Austria — started to hurriedly build walls of their own…”

    https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/the-baseless-trite-arguments-against-walls/

  76. oh my there are little airports, there are trains, boats, tunnels, and even magical dope fairies that just sprinkle the countryside with packets of heroin….. and everyone knows you just walk through the entry point with a kilo of dope shoved in your shorts anyway…. or stuff your trunk with Poncho his little Lupe they all come through the official crossing points now according to all of you……

    All those 1000s of miles of open space ignore that no one and no drugs cross there…. you must be crazy.

  77. Walls are also, according to Pelosi, an “old way of thinking.”

    How about wheels – they are an “old way of thinking” so let’s get rid of them.

    If something works, then it’s a right way of thinking, and is ageless if it works. Walls work.

  78. There are 77 nations with border walls. 64 have been built since 1990.

  79. Walls work

    They do for sure. The Iron Curtain stretched from the Baltic to the Adriatic and did its job for 45 years:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2PUIQpAEAQ

  80. the only Wall built to keep PEOPLE IN and where is it now Peter?

    and you people didn’t do shit to bring it down….. WE BROUGHT IT DOWN…..

    any one who wants to leave the US is free to go. Those that keep promising they will leave somehow are still here.

    We have a right to keep out the rabble and the drugs.

  81. How did Mexico affoRd to pay for 77 walls?

  82. cocaine, pot, and coffee

  83. Yes and the evil Terroir-ists also

  84. no bandito’s….. you racist….

  85. Pete Moore,

    Almost all of your small airfields and vast shorelines of the East, Gulf and West coasts, Hawaii, Alaska and the Great Lakes too are beyond the reach of small craft.

    More utter nonsense from Pete Moore. The US has thousands more small airports than the UK has. And many of these smaller airports are easily within the reach of aircraft from destinations outside the US. Do you actually think people believe the nonsense that you write Pete. Don’t judge people on ATW by your own low homesty standards.

  86. Dave – I have long thought how frustrating it must be for the right world contingent here. Other places they visit are echo chambers, but here there is a contingent of sane bubble bursting folks who daily expose their false claims.

  87. Mahons is drunk….

  88. Mahons. Well said mate. I actually can’t believe that Pete is that stupid, that he believes the nonsense that he writes, and actually thinks he’s making a convincing argument. It’s just total dishonesty.

  89. PVR

    My point was that walls can work, that’s all. Very few got across from the east and no-one tried from the west.

    There was an unexpected biodiversity bonus. Because the Iron Curtain sealed off a few hundred yards for thousands of miles, the plants and animals were free to get on with life without chemical farming and human interference. As a result, much of the former area of the wall has been transformed into a series of national parks now known as the European Green Belt. Apparently something similar has happened in the border area between North Korea and South Korea.

    “The “inner German border,” which separated East and West Germany, stretched 1,400 kilometers (879 miles) from the Baltic Sea down to the Czech Republic. It was covered in barbed wire, surrounded by mines and booby trapped with automatic spring guns, while soldiers patrolled the barrier intent on preventing any East German citizens escaping to the West.

    At the same time, this strange border developed a completely different function: It became a haven for wildlife. The no-man’s-land that emerged, ranging from 60 to 200 meters wide, provided the ideal conditions for the flourishing of flora and fauna. Up to 600 endangered species, including the black stork and the lady’s slipper orchid, thrived in this unusual terrain.

    Then the Berlin Wall fell in 1989 and Germany was reunited. There were immediate attempts to jump in and fill the void with buildings, streets and farmland. Motorways and train tracks were even laid in some places. But Germany’s environmentalists soon took action. They campaigned to protect the area, known as the Green Belt. It now forms part of a European Green Belt winding its way along the route of the former Iron Curtain from the north of Finland down to the Adriatic Sea…”

    http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/from-death-strip-to-life-line-former-inner-german-border-provides-haven-for-wildlife-a-552953.html

  90. Dave – Indeed. Their goal isn’t truth or accuracy.

  91. sorry Peter

    I went off because of the comparison…. several have tried to make one.

    My mistake mate.

  92. The thing is there is no reason to exaggerate either sides position.

    The Democratic Socialists can not have that wall and that’s who control that party, the RINOs in office are impotent and Trump won on this issue because he tapped into blue collar america with it.

    The people have had enough.

  93. Cheers Patrick

    As I have no doubt recounted here before, I crossed Checkpoint Charlie into East Berlin in November 1988, about a year before the wall came down. I will never forget the contrast between West Berlin and East Berlin. I spent a few hours in the spartan east and was glad to cross back to the decadent west.

  94. What people?

    Trump was elected with a minority of voters

    This highly divisive over his head character probably doesn’t speak for the majority on many subjects

  95. People are already starting to forget the difference…. sad and frightening

  96. This highly divisive over his head character probably doesn’t speak for the majority on many subjects

    but he does on this one……

  97. 40 years ago drugs were smuggled in small airplanes in unknown air fields(except the ones smuggled in with the full participation of the US government) now the come across the Mexican border and american ports but the south Americans still build small 2-4 man subs to try and beat the system and no one knows how much successful this system is except for the occasional captured sub the problem is and always will be the smugglers are always 1 step ahead and come up with new strategies long before the old strategies quit working

    Phantom is right the problem is not a supply problem but a demand problem until you address the demand problem you will never succeed at the supply side

  98. the way the government is combating the opioid crises is not saving a single life on the streets.

    There will always be smuggling, but 90% walks right across the border. The flow will be cut by over 2/4rds and that will save 10s of thousands of lives.

  99. No, not true at all

    http://www.philly.com/health/how-do-illegal-drugs-enter-us-heroin-fentanyl-trump-border-wall-mexico-china-20190109.html

  100. How does heroin get to Philadelphia?

    Heroin that lands here via Mexican drug-trafficking organizations is largely sent through legal entry points, according to a 2017 DEA report on the country’s drug supply. Drugs are hidden in secret compartments in passenger vehicles, or secreted among legitimate goods in tractor-trailers. To a lesser extent, Mexican trafficking organizations do send individual smugglers and scouts across remote areas along the border. But sending drugs through legal border crossings is more bang for a trafficker’s buck — it allows for the shipment of far larger quantities than could be driven across rough terrain.

    According to a wide-ranging DEA report on Pennsylvania’s opioid crisis, released in October, most of the region’s heroin is sourced from Mexico. The heroin here has long been known as some of the purest and cheapest in the country, at least before fentanyl — a deadlier, man-made opioid — began to contaminate the local drug supply.

  101. Brett Stephens in the NY Times has a good article on how Israel secures its borders. He reports they have some walls but most is “smart” fencing. Some of what they do could be adapted by the US and it would be more effective and much cheaper.

    Trump is losing his battle. He looks tired and beat. Repeating old lies is not the way to win an argument. There will be no wall and Trump does not have his daddy around to rescue him. Then there is the chaos in his administration, House hearings and Robert Mueller. 2019 is already a disastrous year for him. How and when will it end?

  102. Oh gee you found an article in a philly democrat paper that agrees with your view that we don’t need a wall that all the millions we spend at the check points to catch this stuff is a waste of time the dea, fbi, and cbp are so incompetent that literally tons of narcotics slips through where all the detection apparatus is in place…

    shit then anyone smuggling a nuke is in the clear just pack it in heroin and send it through the checkpoint…….

  103. Regardless of whatever merits or not the wall may have one thing is definitely incorrect. The idea that the wall will reduce the amount of narcotics entering the USA. It will simply enter another way and in the same amounts. Where there is a demand the supply will always get through somewhere.

  104. Yes the DEA are satanic Democrats

    It’s all a conspiracy

    The only ones that know “ the real facts “ about the intricacies of drugs trade are Patrick and twittering Trump

  105. Whoops!!

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jan/10/trump-wall-speech-video-2014-go-through-concrete

    You people didn’t do shit to bring it down….. WE BROUGHT IT DOWN…..

    What self-aggrandising, over indulgent rubbish.

  106. What we have is a few followers here following the scatterbrain. They’ll follow him off a pier into the sea if that’s where he wanders tomorrow

    You notice that Trump didn’t Make such a big deal about the wall during the months when Republicans controlled the House. But now that the Democrats run the house, And now that the talk radio screamers are banging the drum louder on it, all of a sudden it’s the biggest issue in American history

    There is actual talk that Trump might subvert disaster relief money allocated for Puerto Rico and California And spend it on the wall instead

  107. Interesting comments from House representatives at the coal face:

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46815569

  108. Can anyone answer why didn’t Trump secure the funding when the Republicans controlled the house ?

  109. Colm, IMO, the Republicans in the House under Paul Ryan were part of the problem as well. When Trump talks of “draining the swamp” he’s speaking about his own Party also.

  110. Paul, that’s an interesting article. It’s not surprising to me that Congressmen who represent mostly Hispanics would be against the wall. It would be against their own self interests to do so.

  111. Charles

    Trump simply did not push the wall in a major way for the first two years. It isn’t as though he demanded it and Ryan said no.

    His priorities were tax cuts for rich people and corporations, moving an embassy in Israel, and judicial nominations. The wall was well down the list.

  112. ” It would be against their own self interests to do so.”

    I think there are arguments for and against a wall. I don’t, for what it is worth, think that Trump has made them.

    But why are politicians who oppose the wall either part of the “swamp” or acting in their own self interests?

  113. It would be against their own self interests to do so.

    Why would this be the case? Of course, the Spanish influence on Texas is centuries old, and all Texan voters are citizens ( not illegals, and I would think that most hispanic voters have no connection to any illegals )

    I hear of white ranchers and homeowners near the border who don’t want the wall either.

    I wouldn’t want anyone seizing my land either.

  114. But why are politicians who oppose the wall either part of the “swamp” or acting in their own self interests?

    Seamus, I think the honest answer is that because they disagree with me!:)

  115. I think Will Hurd makes a reasonable point. If the problems at the US-Mexico border are a ‘crisis’ why are the people tackling that ‘crisis’ – the US Customs and Border Protection officials, including US Border Patrol agents – doing so without pay? If they are at the coalface of the ‘crisis’ then surely they should be paid?

  116. “Seamus, I think the honest answer is that because they disagree with me!:)”

    I think most of us would probably think that. We will back those who agree with us, even when they are wrong, and attack those who disagree with us, even when they are right.

    Kudos to you for being honest to admit it.

  117. I personally like Will Hurd. He comes from a CIA background.

  118. Thanks mate!

  119. Of course

    There were Spanish speakers in Texas for at least two centuries before the US became a nation

    Hispanic culture / influence isn’t any strange thing there, it is part of what makes Texas interesting and great.

    https://tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/nps01

  120. Trump knows what is coming in the Mueller investigation, the Wall is his distraction.

  121. Trump’s sense of timing is very poor.

    If he had prioritized the wall in 2017, construction could have been underway now.

    There is zero reason to think that that House would not have given him the kind of money that he now is asking for.

  122. What self-aggrandising, over indulgent rubbish.

    what was the Irish or Spanish threat to the Soviet Union……?

  123. When Trump talks of “draining the swamp” he’s speaking about his own Party also.

    I’m unable to link the wall issue with Trump’s ‘swamp’ Charles. Is there a tangible link between ‘draining the swamp’ and ‘the wall?’ (Legitimate question).

    It would be against their own self interests to do so.

    Aren’t politicians supposedly there to serve the electorate? In an area so close to Mexico I’m not surprised that Hispanics would constitute a sizeable portion of their mandates.

    Kudos to you for being honest to admit it.

    Charles is a thinking Conservative, always honest and, when appropriate, self critical Seamus. That’s one of the reasons it’s always a pleasure to converse with him.

  124. You notice that Trump didn’t Make such a big deal about the wall during the months when Republicans controlled the House. But now that the Democrats run the house, And now that the talk radio screamers are banging the drum louder on it, all of a sudden it’s the biggest issue in American history

    Yeah no fighting fake collusion, fighting for a man that the made up rape charges on, etc etc yeah Trump was doing nothing nothing while the GOP Congress passed all their promises right up to scumbag McCains last act of giving the American People the finger…..

  125. Colm, on January 11th, 2019 at 12:43 PM Said:
    Can anyone answer why didn’t Trump secure the funding when the Republicans controlled the house ?

    Because you beed 60 votes in the Senate they had the money from the House.

  126. Trump had enough time to send a zillion tweets a day and to make a very large number of speeches before adoring mobs

    Yet he didn’t have any time to push for the Wall.

    The Wall was not a priority then, but it became all important after the Dems took the House.

    Well all righty then.

  127. There is actual talk that Trump might subvert disaster relief money allocated for Puerto Rico and California And spend it on the wall instead

    Good California deserves NO HELP and Puerto Rico is not a State.

  128. Phantom, on January 11th, 2019 at 1:54 PM Said:
    Trump had enough time to send a zillion tweets a day and to make a very large number of speeches before adoring mobs

    Yet he didn’t have any time to push for the Wall.

    The Wall was not a priority then, but it became all important after the Dems took the House.

    Well all righty then.

    Suddenly your memory is blank over the deal he offered LAST YEAR the Wall for DACA….

  129. Seamus, on January 11th, 2019 at 1:22 PM Said:
    I think Will Hurd makes a reasonable point. If the problems at the US-Mexico border are a ‘crisis’ why are the people tackling that ‘crisis’ – the US Customs and Border Protection officials, including US Border Patrol agents – doing so without pay? If they are at the coalface of the ‘crisis’ then surely they should be paid?

    Because a decade ago when the democrats started playing these shut down games and would not do a budget only continuing resolutions they include CBP as a NONESSENTIAL group.

  130. Why does Cali not deserve help Pat?

    Puerto Rico is not a State

    Unlike Israel you mean?

  131. Puerto Ricans are more American than you are.

    And the aid was marked for Puerto Rico and for California.

    A racially motivated stealing of hurricane relief is not recommended.

  132. Though this would be consistent with Trump’s long standing history of stealing from charities.

  133. The Wall was promised in 1985 in exchange for Amnesty. They got the Amnesty and screwed us on the Wall…..

    The Wall is Congresses Problem it’s been promised to the PEOPLE for 25 years…. It’s not only a Trump issue.

  134. The Wall was promised in 1985 in exchange for Amnesty.

    Please show evidence of that.

  135. Phantom, on January 11th, 2019 at 2:00 PM Said:
    Puerto Ricans are more American than you are.

    FU you ignorant fat load….. You’re an elitist pig with no family and no concern for the future who knows nothing outside of your little bubble.

    I’m not American…. you’re not a Man.

  136. You’re a failure at a man. A mans job is to create a family and provide for it….. which you failed at.

  137. What’s your reasoning for stating Cali doesn’t deserve aid Pat?

    PR’s are American citizens?

  138. This is like Brexit. All the problems can be resolved easily and quickly by doing what the people want and voted for.

    Instead, problems are created by bad people acting against the country, against their compatriots and acting for crony corporates and foreign interests.

    A dash of honour and decency will get everyone through it, but the other side cannot offer even that.

  139. Patrick getting embittered and nasty and vicious again

    Puerto Ricans are part of American society.

    Stealing hurricane aid on purely racial lines will cause lasting harm to American society. And that’s exactly what you propose.

  140. Maybe it’s time for that second cuppa coffee!

  141. All Puerto Ricans are American citizens.

    Pat doesn’t know that.

    They also have a high rate of enlistment in the military etc.

  142. I get nasty when some Trump Derangement Syndrome ass says I’m not American….

    You’re damn straight, well at least I’m a man who built a family…. more than you have accomplished… you want to get personal I’ll be glad to oblige.

  143. Puerto Ricans hold two passports, but they are a territory not a state. They don’t want to be a state so they go to the bottom of the list….

    Cali has money to be a Sancturay state for ILLEGAL NONAMERICANS they must have money to spare so the don’t need aid money and it should be held back as long as they defy federal law.

  144. You know I come on here everyday, everyday I have to put up with being labeled things I am not.

    I have stopped fighting with you, but today I’m not in the mood to ignore your idiocy Tom.

  145. No one said that you are not an American you most ignorant of thugs

    All Puerto Ricans have been US citizens since 1917. That’s long before my family became American citizens, maybe long before others here.

    There is no such thing as a Puerto Rico passport. You don’t know anything about Puerto Rico, this is a pure racial thing, following the lead of the Trump master.

  146. FU

    All Puerto Ricans have been US citizens since 1917. That’s long before my family became American citizens, maybe long before others here.

    and my families came in the 1800s

    You said they were more american than me that’s calling me unamerican…..

  147. Troll
    Phantom didn’t get personal and nasty – you did. And you should apologise.

    Pete Moore gets mixed up yet again – the Wall, like Brexit, is being pushed by scaremongering and lies, and when sensible people put up facts against it, they are labelled as dishonest, or worse.

  148. Troll, that does not mean he is calling you ‘un-American!’
    How did you get that from what Phantom wrote!?
    You should apologise for what you have written here about him.

  149. Seimi –

    Dishonest anti-democrats are described as such because that’s what they are.

  150. Pete M
    Certainly there are dishonest Democrats, just as there are dishonest people everywhere.
    This does not negate the fact that Trump’s wall, just as Brexit, was, is and continues to be, pushed by lies and liars.

  151. Well in that case I apologize.

  152. Fair play, PaTroll.

  153. There is a case to be made for a larger wall, but the issue of drug interdiction is wildly overstated, and the issue of terrorism is 100% bullshit.

    Trump and Schumer were very close to a deal on wall funding (more money than spoken of now ) in early 2018, but Trump backed away from it in the face of criticism from hard liners

    The deal master has botched every chance to do a deal

  154. We have over 20 million illegals in the country, we are in the middle of an epidemic that is killing over 60,000 people a year from illegal drugs smuggled over the southern border and the majority is not coming through checkpoints with drug sniffing dogs and vehicle searches.

    The argument on the subject has descended into ridiculousness.

    The Border Patrol wants a wall the families of the 124 dead border agents want a wall who were killed fighting drug runners NOT at check points. The families of everyone killed or maimed by an illegal want a wall… but the Democrats want the welfare votes.

  155. “Because a decade ago when the democrats started playing these shut down games and would not do a budget only continuing resolutions they include CBP as a NONESSENTIAL group.”

    The bulk of the recent shutdowns in American history have come as the Republicans controlled Congress. So why is it only the Democrats playing the games?

    And if you don’t like the game playing then the Republicans should pass the CR – opening up the government and paying essential workers to do essential jobs.

    “Suddenly your memory is blank over the deal he offered LAST YEAR the Wall for DACA….”

    And then pulled the offer when he couldn’t get the Freedom Caucus to back him on it.

    “All the problems can be resolved easily and quickly by doing what the people want and voted for.”

    Ok Pete. The people voted for Trump (sort of but not really but for the purpose of this conversation lets pretend they did). They also voted for the current iteration of the House.

    Which one did the people vote for?

  156. “the majority is not coming through checkpoints with drug sniffing dogs and vehicle searches.”

    Well the DEA, Trump’s DEA, says your full of shit.

  157. Puerto Ricans hold two passports, but they are a territory not a state. They don’t want to be a state so they go to the bottom of the list….

    I find it pretty astonishing Pat that, given your often vaunted patriotism, you’d deny American citizens disaster relief aid while vociferously supporting seemingly unendless funding to a different nation thousands of miles away

    Cali has money to be a Sancturay state for ILLEGAL NONAMERICANS they must have money to spare so the don’t need aid money and it should be held back as long as they defy federal law.

    So are you suggesting that Cali should be denied federal aid based on state wealth or ‘sanctuary cities?’ If it’s state wealth I think that’s setting a dangerous means testing precedent and if it’s ‘sanctuary cities’ how can you collectively penalise a whole state for the actions of some?

    Incidentally, Cali doesn’t seem to be the worst offender in the ‘sanctuary cities’ stakes:

    https://cis.org/Map-Sanctuary-Cities-Counties-and-States

  158. In the Vietnam War, 48,000 Puerto Ricans served,and 345 of them died.

    They’ve always been well represented in the military including in combat ( as have other latins )

    But f*** them, throw them rolls of paper towels and tell them to be grateful

  159. “Cali has money to be a Sancturay state for ILLEGAL NONAMERICANS they must have money to spare so the don’t need aid money and it should be held back as long as they defy federal law.”

    Sanctuary cities (and states) require little money to be sanctuary states. It is simply a lack of cooperation with federal law enforcement by state and local law enforcement. That require little actual money to do.

    Also, what federal laws are the breaking Pat?

  160. Paul, you will note that Texas is not included in sanctuary status. Our Republican controlled legislature outlawed the practice.

    BTW, thank you for your kind words at 1:49!

  161. “They don’t want to be a state so they go to the bottom of the list….”

    They do want to be a state. There was a referendum (with low turnout due to a boycott of one of the political parties) in 2017. 97% who voted did so for Statehood.

    In 2012, in a much more widely participated upon referendum, 54% wanted to end the current US-Puerto Rican arrangement, and 44% wanted to continue it. The majority of the 54% wanted statehood.

    There are four major political parties in Puerto Rico. Partido Nuevo Progresista – a pro statehood party; Partido Popular Democrático – a pro status quo party; Partido Independentista Puertorriqueño, a pro independence party; and Partido del Pueblo Trabajador – a socialist party who take no position.

    There are 30 Senators in Puerto Rico. 21 are PNP. There are 51 Representatives in Puerto Rico. 34 are PNP. The Governor of Puerto Rico is PNP. The non-voting delegate to the US Congress from Puerto Rico is PNP.

    So the majority of Senators. The majority of Representatives. The Governor. The delegate. All favour statehood.

  162. I don’t see Puerto Rico being a state any time soon.

    It probably should not happen. Many Puerto Ricans oppose it passionately.

    I don’t see how it benefits the US or Puerto Rico

  163. Puerto Rico is property….. that doesn’t carry it’s weight.

  164. Sanctuary cities (and states) require little money to be sanctuary states. It is simply a lack of cooperation with federal law enforcement by state and local law enforcement. That require little actual money to do.

    ROFLMAO….

    The cost of illegals on the school system, the legal system, the medical system, the welfare housing system costs Ca billions…..

    Illegal Immigrants Cost the State of California $30.29 Billion Annually Illegal immigrants and their children cost the State of California a net $30.29 billion per year. This equates to $7,352 per illegal alien, or roughly 17.7 percent of California’s state budget .

  165. “The cost of illegals on the school system, the legal system, the medical system, the welfare housing system costs Ca billions…..”

    The cost of illegal immigration is the cost of illegal immigration. Texas has costs associated with illegal immigration. It is not a sanctuary state.

    The actual cost of sanctuary status is not high.

    But you knew that which is why you decided to change your argument when proved wrong. Again.

  166. There was a referendum (with low turnout due to a boycott of one of the political parties) in 2017

    Yeah, I saw that article too Seamus. I think the turnout was much too low to give it any credence.

    Puerto Rico is property….. that doesn’t carry it’s weight.

    Yet they are an area where all inhabitents are American citizens? (unlike that other place that you support seemingly unlimited funding to).

  167. but what’s 30 Billion in just one state right…. that’s nothing…..

  168. The Jews carry their weight….

  169. I suspect that Pat’s denial of federal relief funding to Cali is based on political allegiance?

  170. “I don’t see Puerto Rico being a state any time soon.”

    Probably not, but not because of Puerto Rico. It would be opposition in Congress that will cause it.

    “It probably should not happen. Many Puerto Ricans oppose it passionately.”

    But the majority support it. Should the passionate opposition of a minority force the majority to not be allowed to get what they support?

    “I don’t see how it benefits the US or Puerto Rico”

    I think the storm and the federal response (or lack there of) is one of the major benefits of statehood to Puerto Rico. If Puerto Rico becomes a state it will provide 2 Senators, 7 Congressmen, and 9 Electoral Votes. Its unlikely that given its new influence that an administration would ignore their plight in the same manner.

  171. The Jews carry their weight….

    So that means fuck the Yanks?

  172. Seimi –

    I’m polite, so will suggest that you are mistaken.

    No lies were uttered in support of Brexit. I won’t ask for an example, because I’ve asked many times and none were forthcoming.

    However the lies in support of pan-European government stretch 50 years and are unceasing.

  173. “but what’s 30 Billion in just one state right…. that’s nothing…..”

    Where did you get your numbers from Pat? Because the news article your quote seems to come from includes the line:

    “Frankly, I think the number’s probably higher in terms of tangible costs, given that the proportional percent of crimes committed by illegal immigrants is high”

    Which is utter, complete bollocks.

  174. I’d like it if Puerto Rico went independent.

    They’ve f** up their government and economy to a fare thee well, and the association with the US hurts them in some ways

    I don’t see what they bring to the table.

    They can stay as a commonwealth if they want. The US invaded them, not vice versa.

  175. “Yeah, I saw that article too Seamus. I think the turnout was much too low to give it any credence.”

    It was. But the referendum in 2012, with higher turnout, was also pro statehood. That plus the fact that the overwhelming majority of elected officials in Puerto Rico are pro statehood makes me think that Puerto Rico is pro statehood.

  176. good Cali state mgt.

    Los Angeles is grappling with a homeless epidemic. “It’s the worst human catastrophe in America,” says Andy Bales, a pastor who runs the Union Rescue Mission on Skid Row. Faced with a growing crisis, city leaders last year budgeted more than $100 million for affordable housing, addiction treatment, job placement and mental health services. And yet, as L.A.’s real estate prices soar, so does the city’s homeless population. And nowhere have the twin forces of inaccessible housing and inequality created a more explosive mix than in Venice Beach, a hotbed of entertainment executives and talent where the median home price is $1.9 million. Many of these residents are now grappling with a quality-of-life issue that defies their own liberal ideals.

  177. According to California’s state budget $88.3 billion is allocated for California’s K-12 students ($51.6 billion from California, the rest from local and federal initiatives). Given their proportion of the student population, illegal immigrants and their children may absorb up to $15.63 billion in educational costs.

    Illegal Immigration Costs California $30.3 Billion A Year …
    nationaleconomicseditorial.com/2017/02/21/costs-illegal-immigration-california/

    first thing on google

    https://www.bing.com/search?q=cost+of+illegals+in+ca&qs=HS&pq=c&sc=8-1&cvid=23684386FF87401F86D046AD0D8EE9AD&FORM=CHRDEF&sp=1

  178. “I’d like it if Puerto Rico went independent.”

    Which isn’t supported by just about anyone in Puerto Rico. It gets about 5% support.

  179. Yeah that’s the article I found Patrick. And it also includes the line:

    “Frankly, I think the number’s probably higher in terms of tangible costs, given that the proportional percent of crimes committed by illegal immigrants is high”

    Which is a completely false statement. Thus casting doubt on the entire top line results of the article.

  180. Paul McMahon, on January 11th, 2019 at 4:26 PM Said:
    The Jews carry their weight….

    So that means fuck the Yanks?

    They support the yanks and are our first line of defense against the Arabs and the Persians.

  181. Which is a completely false statement.

    which you base on what FACTS?

  182. Almost all of the anti-American feeling in the Middle East is linked to your support of Israel.

    So Israel is your first line of defence against a problem created by your support of Israel.

  183. https://nationaleconomicseditorial.com/2017/02/21/costs-illegal-immigration-california/

  184. “which you base on what FACTS?”

    http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2013/10/15/crime-rises-among-second-generation-immigrants-as-they-assimilate/

    The rate of crime committed by immigrants is much lower than native born populations.


  185. https://nationaleconomicseditorial.com/2017/02/21/costs-illegal-immigration-california/

    Yes. The article I read. That is demonstrably not true.

  186. read

    https://nationaleconomicseditorial.com/2017/05/24/cost-illegal-immigration-crimes/

  187. I have read it:

    I have read it:

    How many fucking times do I need to say it?

    I have read it:

  188. So Pew is wrong, DHS is wrong but your right…… read the last link and check the links in the story

  189. “Illegal Immigrants Are More Likely To Commit Crimes Than American Citizens
    This is a fact. It’s not up for debate.”

    Bollocks. Provably bollocks. It’s not up for debate because it is bollocks.

  190. Pew is saying immigrants commit far fewer crimes.

  191. Pew is saying immigrants commit far fewer crimes.

  192. The distinction between citizen and alien is even larger in “low-level” crime. For example, 75% of all federal drug possession sentences were given to illegal immigrants, and 40% of all federal crimes were committed in jurisdictions bordering Mexico.

  193. Also the sight you are linking to:

    Here is the Media Bias Fact Check on them:

    https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/national-economics-editorial/

    Reasoning: Extreme Right, Propaganda

    Notes: National Economics Editorial (NEE) is a news site that purports to support Economic Nationalism. While NEE does cover some economic issues it is, as the name implies, mainly an editorial site. The opinions expressed in the stories cover current affairs with a pronounced right wing bias. NEE is, on the whole, long on rhetoric and short on factual content and credible sourcing. Due to the overt bias and lack of factual information, NEE is rated Questionable.

  194. “For example, 75% of all federal drug possession sentences were given to illegal immigrants, and 40% of all federal crimes were committed in jurisdictions bordering Mexico.”

    Yes. That’s not PEW. That’s National Economics Editorial – an extreme right propaganda source.

  195. Media Bias

    roflmao…… a leftwing propaganda organization is your “credible” source

  196. “roflmao…… a leftwing propaganda organization is your “credible” source

    What is not credible about them? They find sources such as CNN not credible, the even accuse the BBC of centre-left bias.

    What is not credible about them?

  197. Facts are now left wing propaganda – according to Patrick. Facts are biased.

  198. facts

    The misrepresentation of comparisons in who commits crimes between illegal immigrants, legal U.S. immigrants and American citizens

    The pro-illegal immigrant lobby consistently misrepresents the criminal involvement of illegal immigrants as compared to immigrants who legally enter the U.S. and American citizens, saying that illegal immigrants commit less crimes than their counterparts. This assertion is false in most cases. Here are the vetted statistics:

    In California, there are just over 92 illegal immigrants imprisoned for every 100,000 illegals as compared to 74 citizens and legal non-citizen immigrants. In Arizona, the rate is nearly 69 illegals imprisoned for every 100,000, as compared to 54 citizens and legal non-citizen immigrants.

    In New York, over three times as many illegal immigrants or 169, are imprisoned for crimes per 100,000, as compared to only 48 citizens and legal non-citizen immigrants. Only the states of Texas and Florida do illegal immigrants commit less crimes than their legal immigrant counterparts (Texas with 54.5 illegals imprisoned per 100,000, compared to 65 legal immigrants and Florida with 55 illegals imprisoned, compared to 68 legal immigrants).

    Texas is an epicenter for illegal immigrant crimes

    Recent crime analysis by both the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) and Texas law enforcement authorities indicate that between June 2011 and March 2017, over 217,000 criminal immigrants were arrested and booked into Texas jails.

    In researching the criminal careers of these defendants, it was revealed that they had jointly committed over nearly 600,000 criminal offenses. Their arrests included nearly 1,200 homicides; almost 69,000 assaults; 16,854 burglaries; 700 kidnappings; nearly 6,200 sexual assaults; 69,000 drug offenses; 8,700 weapons violations; over 3,800 robberies and over 45,000 obstructing police charges. In determining the status of these offenders in the U.S., it was confirmed by DHS that over 173,000 or 66 percent of these immigrant criminal defendants were in our country illegally at the times of their arrests.

  199. Build the wall mount automated guns on it fill the river with alligators and arm the drones.

    Put up several large gates where those entering are photographed, fingerprinted, DNA sampled and chipped for tracking.

  200. The Cato Institute (just to make sure you don’t go on one of your flights of fantasy that all sources are legal):

    https://www.cato.org/publications/immigration-research-policy-brief/criminal-immigrants-texas-illegal-immigrant

    Legal immigrants commit less crime than illegal immigrants. Illegal immigrants commit less crime than citizens.

  201. Seamus –

    Should the passionate opposition of a minority force the majority to not be allowed to get what they support?

    Yes, absolutely, according to you anti-democrats. You’ve given up the right of appealing to majorities and democracy.

  202. “Put up several large gates where those entering are photographed, fingerprinted, DNA sampled and chipped for tracking.”

    A large amount of whom will be American citizens. You going to start photographing them, fingerprinting them and chipping them? Constitution may have a word or two to say about that.

  203. “Yes, absolutely, according to you anti-democrats.”

    I’m not anti-democratic. I support Brexit (outside of Northern Ireland – which voted to Remain). Brexit for Britain, Remain for Northern Ireland. That’s the pro-democracy argument. Will you join us Pete?

  204. Yes

    Many cities with many illegals ( El Paso, New York City ) have lower crime than peers, generally.

  205. Patrick Van Roy,

    shit then anyone smuggling a nuke is in the clear just pack it in heroin and send it through the checkpoint…….

    LOL. You actually think that somebody would have difficulty smuggling a nuke into the US. We’re talking about something the size of a large rucksack.

    The argument on the subject has descended into ridiculousness.

    It certainly is ridiculous Patrick, when people like yourself believe the drug smugglers will just give up if they can’t walk their drugs across the border.
    And that somehow, building a wall will magically stop drugs entering the US just as easily via another route.

  206. Maginot Line

  207. Wall or no wall.

    The sham “war on drugs” has been lost.

    Prohibition has never worked.

    Follow Portugal’s example.

  208. Correct.

    But the idolators will parrot any oul guff that he vomits up.

  209. Seamus, I looked at you link to Cato that states that illegals commit less crime than natives. While that may be true, the studies claiming this are from 2001, and 2009. Would you agree with me than things may have deteriorated in the ensuing years?

  210. The Cato studies drew on research from 2001 and 2009 but I believe their statistics are from 2015.

  211. They support the yanks and are our first line of defense against the Arabs and the Persians.

    But I didn’t say that. I asked if supporting seemingly endless support to a nation thousands of miles away was okay in the context of you wanting to deny federal disaster relief aid to your fellow American citizens?, hence ‘fuck the Yanks’ I believe that your often cited patriotism is inconsistent with choosing a foreign nation over US citizens.

    As for the ‘first line of defence’. I believe that the Arabs only ever launched one attack on American soil, (let’s not get pedantic with American istitutions in other countries, I mean America proper). I wonder where they were from?

    No lies were uttered in support of Brexit. I won’t ask for an example, because I’ve asked many times and none were forthcoming

    Well, apart from the ‘out means out’ one peddled by people like yourself and ‘Independent Britain, Campaigning to leave the EU’ that you continuously try to dismiss?

  212. Seamus –

    We are already “us”, in the UK. That’s our country, and we voted to be sovereign and independent.

  213. “Would you agree with me than things may have deteriorated in the ensuing years?”

    I think the biggest chances of changes is with total numbers – ie that because the number of illegals is declared by the article as 1,758,199 illegal immigrants. That is remarkably precise – arguably far too precise. Which means they have estimated and reached that exact number based on their estimations.

    The number of illegals may be higher, may be lower. However if it is higher it does mean that, interestingly, the crime rate goes down. Because the crime rate is reached by dividing the number of crimes committed by illegal immigrants by the number of illegal immigrants. So we know the crime number – we are guessing the number of people. So if it is lower the crime rate is higher. If it is higher then the crime rate is lower.

    There also is an argument that the numbers are based on convictions, not crimes. So if a person commits a crime but is not caught then they aren’t in the study or the numbers. I’m not sure if there is any way of knowing if a higher proportion of illegal immigrant criminals don’t get caught compared to native born criminals.

  214. “We are already “us”, in the UK.”

    Nope. The “us” is the pro-democracy group Pete. We support Brexit for Britain, and Remain for Northern Ireland.

    If you support democracy why do you not support Northern Ireland remaining in the EU?

  215. So long as the methods are the same- arrest rate to arrest rate or conviction rate to conviction rate, it sounds logical.

  216. If you support democracy why do you not support Northern Ireland remaining in the EU?

    Because the UK is leaving the EU. The UK was lied into it, the UK is leaving it. NI could only remain in the EU if the UK broke up, and that’s clearly a ridiculous idea.

  217. Northern Ireland voted to remain. Only anti-democrats would support taking Northern Ireland out of the European Union.

  218. Northern Ireland voted to remain.

    So did a bloke in Croydon, but he’s leaving the EU too.

  219. “So did a bloke in Croydon, but he’s leaving the EU too.”

    The bloke in Croydon isn’t an entity. Northern Ireland is. Northern Ireland voted to remain. It would be undemocratic to force it to leave.

  220. Seamus, interesting discussion. When I was thinking of the situation deteriorating over the past few years, I failed to mention that I was specifically thinking of the rise of gangs like MS-13. Phantom may know that MS-13 is active on Long Island and that Rep. Peter King (R-NY) has been following the phenomenon.

  221. MS-13 is indeed active on LI and they remain a big problem there.

  222. “When I was thinking of the situation deteriorating over the past few years, I failed to mention that I was specifically thinking of the rise of gangs like MS-13.”

    I think MS-13 grab a lot of attention and help paint a picture of immigrants based on that, one that isn’t representative of almost all illegal immigrants. Additionally they have been around since the 1980s.

    MS-13 have an estimated 10,000 members, which is for what it is worth a tiny proportion of gang members in the US. The US has over 1.4 million gang members. And for what it is worth MS-13, while particularly brutal – even amongst gangs – account for a similar proportion (less than 1%) of gang related murders. So they get a disproportionate amount of attention (which inflates their significance).

    MS-13 make up less than 1 tenth of 1 percent of illegal immigrants in the United States. 0.08%. Even if one assumes (likely not the case) that all MS-13 members are Salvadoran then it is less than 2% of the US Salvadoran population.

    Now obviously there are illegal immigrants in other gangs as well so the number will be higher than that. I’m just using it to point out the disproportionate amount of attention that is focused on them.

  223. Seamus, well said.

  224. “Even if one assumes (likely not the case) that all MS-13 members are Salvadoran then it is less than 2% of the US Salvadoran population.”

    I should add those numbers are based off of if you assume that all MS-13 members are illegal Salvadorans then it would be less than 2% of the US illegal Salvadoran population.

  225. MS-13 should be destroyed.

    But yes they aren’t remotely representative of immigrants, legal or illegal, Latins included.

  226. Cheers Charles.

    Phantom,

    Absolutely, MS-13 should be destroyed. The gang problem in the US is astounding, a combination of the drugs trade and likely easy access to firearms. But demonising immigrants, legal or otherwise, will likely push more young men (primarily young men) into the arms of the likes of MS-13.

    The way of destroying MS-13 is limit guns, legalise drugs and deal with rampant inner city poverty.

  227. You forgot to convict those who have committed crimes and to deport each and every gang member who are illegals

    They are not always an inner city problem that I can see. There are no inner cities in Suffolk Country, Long Island.

  228. It isn’t just inner cities, but they are normally the epicentre. Large cities account for 57% of all gang members in the United States, while small cities and rural areas account for a little bit over 18%. The remainder tend to be in suburban areas of large cities.

    “You forgot to convict those who have committed crimes and to deport each and every gang member who are illegals”

    Absolutely, though most likely the majority of gang members are not illegal immigrants.

  229. In 2013, Robert Rector and Jason Richwine of The Heritage Foundation released a study concluding that as of 2010, the “average unlawful immigrant household” had a net deficit (benefits received minus taxes paid) of $14,387 per household.[45]

    In case that’s unclear, the conclusion of the study was that they pay more into the system than they take out.

    From wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_impact_of_illegal_immigrants_in_the_United_States#Cost-benefit_analysis

    Damned commies at the Heritage Foundation, huh?

  230. Fox reports on MS=13 activity in NY.

    https://www.foxnews.com/us/suspected-ms-13-members-charged-in-bloody-new-york-brawl-were-released-from-ice-custody-by-federal-judges-before-attack-officials-say

  231. They bring a level of violence to that part of Long Island that is fairly new.

    They should be treated without any mercy, regardless of age.

  232. They should be though the ones in Charles link seem to have been arrested the first time without probable cause – hence their release. It wasn’t so much about mercy, just the police not following the law.

  233. I would like membership in the group be a significant criminal offense in itself. I don’t know that this is the case.

  234. The way of destroying MS-13 is limit guns, legalise drugs and deal with rampant inner city poverty.

    Don’t think so.

  235. I imagine that being a member is not it self a crime but would open most, if not all, members to potential use of the RICO Act. As far as I can see the US has no equivalent to membership of a proscribed organisation charge.