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SQUEAKY BUM TIME IN DUBLIN

By Pete Moore On January 29th, 2019

The EU has been asking (with quite some justification) what the UK government and Parliament wants. Tonight Parliament told them: no extension to Article 50, no second referendum and no crappy backstop*.

Either the EU agrees to renegotiate the backstop or the UK leaves with no deal.

(* The Withdrawal Agreement is full of horrors; the backstop is just one of them.)

36 Responses to “SQUEAKY BUM TIME IN DUBLIN”

  1. You missed out the other thing Parliament said. No leaving without a deal.

  2. It’s not binding, so just an opinion.

  3. Yes. It is not binding. It is opinion. The opinion of Parliament. And the general mood is that if the Prime Minister seeks a no deal Brexit then that non-binding opinion of Parliament will very quickly become the binding opinion of Parliament.

    So “either the EU agrees to renegotiate the backstop or the UK leaves with no deal” is not the case.

    Either the EU agrees to renegotiate the backstop or the UK decides what to do next.

  4. Seamus –

    That the treaties cease to have effect, and we leave the EU on the 29th March, is the law. No motion or amendment can change that. Only a law can repeal or change a law.

    Tonight Parliament actually came to a position, which is that the backstop is unacceptable. May will open the door to negotiation on that, but if the EU sticks to its position that the Withdrawal Agreement cannot be renegotiated then we leave without a deal.

  5. “No motion or amendment can change that. Only a law can repeal or change a law.”

    True. But any law can do so. Any amendment to any law can change the date. Considering that in the event of a no deal Brexit there will need to be substantial legislation passed to facilitate it. So it is possible that an amendment could be tabled onto one of those bills.

    “Tonight Parliament actually came to a position, which is that the backstop is unacceptable. May will open the door to negotiation on that, but if the EU sticks to its position that the Withdrawal Agreement cannot be renegotiated then we leave without a deal.”

    That isn’t the position of Parliament. The position of Parliament is that May should seek to negotiate an alternative to the backstop. And in the event that she fails Parliament “and rejects the United Kingdom leaving the European Union without a Withdrawal Agreement and a Framework for the Future Relationship”. That is the stated position of Parliament.

  6. What a farce.

    Hey, EU, you know that agreement we spent 2 years negotiating with you – the one that is specifically tailored to meet our red lines and our obligations under the GFA? Yeah, that one.

    Well, we don’t like what we agreed so you better bloody change it you sneaky Europeans. Or else.

  7. Seamus –

    “No deal” cannot be taken off the table. It is the table. Tonight Labour MPs in Leave constituencies looked over the precipice and stepped back. That’s why the Cooper/Boles/Grieve amendments lost.

  8. ““No deal” cannot be taken off the table”

    Nonsense. No deal can and should be taken off the table. All it takes is to amend the Brexit legislation and extend Article 50. Neither is actually that complicated.

  9. Squeaky bum time in Dublin? Are you and Sammy Wilson smoking from the same pipe?

    His fantasy is that the Irish Government is close to falling.

    The EU have already come out and said no change to the backstop…

    What’s far more likely is that the UK blinks and at minimum seeks more time which is only going to kick the can down the street.

  10. Squeaky bum time in Dublin? Are you and Sammy Wilson smoking from the same pipe?

    His fantasy is that the Irish Government is close to falling.

    The EU have already come out and said no change to the backstop…

    What’s far more likely is that the UK blinks and at minimum seeks more time which is only going to kick the can down the street.

  11. Parliament failed in its duty to protect the country from an irresponsible government tonight. Moderate sensible Tories proved themselves to be party loyal cowards and some Labour MPs proved that they are unwilling to speak truth to their foolish constituents.

  12. “Tonight Labour MPs in Leave constituencies looked over the precipice and stepped back.”

    Only 3 Labour MPs voted against both the Cooper and Spelman amendments (both amendments were against a no deal). So only 3 Labour MPs voted against taking a no deal off the table. Only 1 of which (Stephen Hepburn) represents a Leave constituency. The others represent one on a knife edge (Graham Stringer’s constituency voted 50/50), and one was one of the most Remain constituencies in the UK (Kate Hoey’s).

  13. Kate Hoey is essentially a Northern Irish DUP wolf in English Labour sheep’s clothes. How on Earth the brainless people of Vauxhall (my constituency) keep voting for her is a mystery.

  14. It’s not binding, so just an opinion.

    But so were the other votes tonight.

  15. Tonight May voted against her own agreement. She will now go back to Brussels and be totally humiliated again, then come back to Parliament with absolutely no change to the agreement.

    That will leave three options:

    1. May’s agreement is passed – won’t happen.
    2. The UK will request an extension to Article 50 – this requires the unanimous agreement of the 27 states and my hunch is that France will veto, which leaves:
    3. A no-deal exit on 29 March.

  16. Colm

    Kate Hoey comes from the same Labour anti-EU tradition as Jeremy Corbyn. I doubt if there is much difference, if any, in their Bennite views on the EU. Especially since Corbyn has not changed his mind on anything for 40 years.

  17. “Kate Hoey is essentially a Northern Irish DUP wolf in English Labour sheep’s clothes. How on Earth the brainless people of Vauxhall (my constituency) keep voting for her is a mystery.”

    No she isn’t. She is essentially a Northern Irish Labour MP in the long standing eurosceptic tradition. She has never been the kind to be in any deceptive clothing and has made no secret about what she is and where she stands.

    The people of Vauxhall increased her majority in the last election because she is a damn good consituency MP who has helped a lot of people. The LibDems threw a fortune at trying to take the seat of her last time and got well up the noses of the other candidates with their tactics. A camera crew followed her round as she canvassed, desperately trying to find someone to say that they were Labour voters but because of Kate’s stance on Brexit, were voting LibDem. They were out longer than they wanted to be as they had trouble finding what they wanted. People had either voted Leave, not voted or accepted the result and were on to other concerns.

    Regarding the general point about Leave MPs in Remain consituencies – they are only Remain constituencies in the sense that the majority in them voted Remain in the referendum. Voting Remain doesn’t automatically make you and undemocratic twonk, who wishes to thwart Brexit. Remain voters IMO fall into two categories those who accept the referendum result and those who don’t. I fully believe that the former are the majority. Of that category some will actually be Leave converts and some will still regret that the vote went the way it did but nonetheless want it to be implemented because that was the result. Whilst I welcome the former into the fold, I respect the latter.

  18. For the benefit of us foreigners

    https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/squeaky_bum_time

  19. I disagree with you about Kate, Aileen and about Brexit but I am delighted to see you commenting. I wish you would choose to do so more here. You are one of our lost jewels 😇

  20. The Brits are acting so annoyingly I would not be surprised if the EU tells them – “just go, for godsakes, you are nothing but a pain and we have better things to do”.

  21. Aileen

    Well said at 1.12 AM

  22. Colm

    That is very gracious of you but I don’t see me coming back to regular commentary. I was very angry when I left and angry with the way my reasons were represented. However I think when looking at some of the comments, that the individual concerned actually realised that he had crossed a line that didn’t really reflect his actual beliefs. Then he invested too much in defending something that I believe that he knew was wrong that he couldn’t back track. (Not wanting to stir that pot again). So that isn’t any longer my reason for staying away.

    As I say I don’t believe that the offending comment was actually the real position of the individual concerned. However there are just too many on here who do support the evil murdering thugs who slaughtered my mother and so many others. They are not on the team who post threads but there are too many of them and the bantering with them, as if being a terrorist supporter is just another opinion, that I see here, does rather turn my stomach.

    There are also not enough unionists to make ATW as interesting as it was back in the day, especially since David doesn’t comment much anymore.

    Re Kate, it is not just my opinion. It blows my mind and is not a comfortable thing to ponder but George Galloway and Alex Salmond speak highly of her. When I was involved in the referendum campaign, I got to know a Leaver from the “hard left”. Way outside my comfort zone as I tend to associate them as having a tendency to Provo-luvidom. I was mentioning Labour Party people I liked eg Alan Johnston and at each one he would shake his head an go “no I am hard left”. I looked confused and started to go “but….” when he forestalled me with “Oh I know Kate isn’t hard left but I just have to respect her because you always know where you stand with her”. In terms of her being a constituency MP, the Green candidate at the last election, said that she disagreed with Kate on a few things (and thus presumably would have a different voting record) but she is an excellent constituency MP.

    Thanks Peter. Our posts crossed in the ether. You were making the same point. I will never forget being at a talk by Fredrick Forsythe on the EU and the late Peter Shore speaking from the floor. He was very frail but delivered an eloquent rant against the lies we were being fed.

    If you haven’t seen it this should be of interest from the Beast 🙂

    https://order-order.com/2019/01/31/skinner-undemocratic-eu/?fbclid=IwAR2DIVrpEMUMAtIN5horqJay_wT5fdt0P0DsqvuIS_fCoWfnHTYrn4vdW6Y

    t

  23. Hi Aileen

    I agree we don’t need to rake up the coals again about the reasons for your leaving ATW. I respect your decision and I know the only times you do come back to comment is when you feel really strongly about something as I imagine you do about the reputation of Kate Hoey. I guess you know her fairly well and I don’t so I am prepared to concede I may have been a bit too harsh in my judgement of her.

    I don’t condemn Kate for her political views in fact I admire the fact that she is a consistent and unwaving Brexit supporter. She is doing so for the right reasons because she believes honestly it is best for the U.K. even though her constituency (and this constituent) voted remain. I admire that more than those MPs who abandon their principles to follow rather than lead their constituents. For various reasons I just happen to think she is the wrong MP for an inner city London area,and would be more suited to a Northern Irish constituency.

    Although you won’t become a regular visitor here for reasons you have explained on the rare occasions you do drop in you will always be more than welcome. Take care AIleen.

  24. Thanks Colm.

    I suspect, (but willing to be put right) that your reason for saying that is because she does interest herself in Northern Ireland. I think it is important that MPs have interests outside the confines of their constituency. She is also interested in Zimbabwe. I think Vauxhall has a lot to thank her for including her drive to sort out Lambeth council (a byword for incompetence/corruption) and not compromising because it was Labour run. In terms of getting an easy ride to reelection, I think she would get a landslide in quite a few constituencies in Northern England. When she went up north during the referendum, so many people thanked her for restoring some of their faith in a Labour Party that they had stopped voting for or were going to.

    Facebook is my theatre of operations now. It has a Block facility that means every so often I can give a wee present to myself.

    Take care 🙂

  25. Well clearly you are very much a Kate Hoey fan. I think your approval of her is much stronger than my disapproval. Of course I understand her interest in Northern Irish matters given her background but my antipathy towards her was also fuelled by the time and energy she put into opposing the fox hunting restrictions law which made me think yes that’s really a priority for inner city Vauxhall isn’t it 😉

    I concede I have only ever encountered Kate once, at a public meeting to discuss a local problem with water supplies a few years ago. Maybe she was just having an off day but I wasn’t very impressed with her performance at the meeting.

    I don’t do Facebook. When I tentatively a while ago started to create an account I was instantly bombarded with requests for friends and looking through the list I realised Facebook had read my e mail address book without my specific permission. It put me off so I never proceeded. I have been trotted by twitter but at the moment I am still resisting. ATW is enough for me 😊

  26. Oops mistake above. ‘ trotted ‘ should read as ‘tempted’

  27. // by twitter but at the moment I am still resisting. ATW is enough for me //

    A man after me own heart, Colm.
    Just yesterday I downloaded a Firefox update onto my mobile, and the next thing I knew it had also installed a mobile Farcebook app on my phone. I quickly erased the whole thing.

    As for Hoey, I think it’s no coincidence that probably the most conservative, if not right wing, Labour member is an Ulster Unionist.

  28. Beware facebook

    The more I learn about their corporate practices, the more I dislike them.

  29. https://techcrunch.com/2019/01/29/facebook-project-atlas/

  30. I think the world would be a better place if instead of Facebook having 2 billion members or whatever the numbers are, ATW had 3 billion regulars .

    Then the whole world really would get along 😄

  31. Colm, each of us stands for billions of the world’s voiceless.

  32. Where is Drunken Cyclist

  33. Colm

    I had meant to deal with” I admire that more than those MPs who abandon their principles to follow rather than lead their constituents.”

    Hmmm. Whilst I agree that MPs are representatives and not delegates but I don’t feel the need to be led by an MP. I am all for independent minded MPs but when you get elected on a promise and ignore that, your constituents have a right to feel aggrieved.

    I also have little time for MPs who have too narrow a focus. They should be concerned about the whole country and indeed the wider world, with an awareness of the local implications.

    Fox hunting restrictions for many who have no interest in fox hunting, is about unjustified curtailment of freedom. I am pretty sure (but not 100%) that Kate doesn’t hunt herself.(I can’t imagine that if she did a picture wouldn’t have emerged and get plastered all over the place. A photo of her attending an OO parade, ignoring the fact that she was there in her role as a member if the NI Affairs Select Committee with other, keeps popping up ). I used to be very opposed to fox hunting and still the idea is pretty revolting to me. However I accept the argument that they are vermin (and I find them a problem in my part of London) and from there it is the most humane way of dealing with them and there are schools of thought that shooting them where they are not killed instantly but die a lingering painful death has more suffering involved than what the foxes do. I don’t know how well that stacks up. Kate has said that in the matter she will be guided by the science. The bigger picture point is that I want my MP to be part of the debate of as much legislation as is is possible for one person to get a handle on. Jim Shannon may not be the best orator in HoC but anytime I have been in the gallery, he seems to be there and speaking. If an MP is only involving himself in high profile stuff and ignoring constituency casework then there is a cause for complaint but busy committed MPs take an interest in a wide range of things.

    I am healthily paranoid about FB and made sure I had ticked all the things or unticked them that limited what it can do. I ignore most of the Friends Requests. I and I suspect most women get requests from men from different parts of the world, with phots of then beside boats or cars or on holiday. My curiosity about them is more or less limited to wondering if they are men looking for hook ups, or pimply youths in some coordinated scam looking for money 🙂

    I am not on Twitter but I do check it. One of my favourite accounts in Titania McGrath. Brilliant parody account that keeps getting taken seriously – Wonderful tweets like CPR is just and excuse to molest. and outrage at being a vegan who was breastfed for 6 months nonconcentually!!! Greatest accolade – Private Eye featured her in Psueds Corner!!

  34. Aileen

    I wonder if Zuckerberg honors the privacy settings that you, or any of us, ask them to respect. His record is bad.

    More on this later.

  35. Probably not but Phantom but I haven’t let him have my pin no. 🙂

  36. I think speaking in the chamber tends to be an overrated aspect of an MP’s job. Firstly very few minds are changed in the chamber and the standard of debate (which tends to focus on first principles and not on detail) is pretty poor. The quality work of an MP tends to be in constituency work (primarily done by an MP’s constituency staff – but also by the MP themselves), or in committee work (I did once quip that committees are Parliament at work, and the chamber is Parliament at play).

    I think Jim Shannon is an interesting case. His value (as an MP) is not so much in that he speaks regularly in the chamber (as again he’s not going to change any minds). His constituency office is one of the busiest in the UK (something that actually got him into trouble as he was spending far more money on it than he was allowed).