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NOT SAUDI ARABIA

By Pete Moore On January 31st, 2019

A Muslim school will not allow girls to eat lunch until after boys have finished, an Ofsted chief has told MPs.

That’s Birmingham, in England, in 2019. This is the multiculturalism fetish. And that’s not all. A schools inspector has been looking at the reading material.

He said that Al-Hijrah school was enforcing a “very strict gender segregation” which included “denying the girls to have their lunch until the boys had had theirs”. “And we had some very discriminatory texts for instance, encouraging violence against women,” he said.

Not acceptable. Our culture is superior than this primitive nonsense. Burn the books and close the school. Any staff who object can be pointed to the nearest airport. Mine is the moderate, sensible way to deal with this rubbish.

44 Responses to “NOT SAUDI ARABIA”

  1. I see it’s a voluntary funded Islamic school. Any state funding should immediately be withdrawn until the Court’s ruling is implemented.

  2. Forget cutting off state funding. Any individual who is deliberately refusing to follow the orders of the Court should be arrested and charged for contempt.

  3. I wouldn’t be against that either.

  4. I’m completely against mixing religion and education. Religious schools should not get any state funding. And that includes church of England schools.

  5. Our culture is superior than this primitive nonsense.

    Yes it is, well said Pete.

  6. Religious schools receive very little funding here.

  7. At our Catholic school, we didn’t even take funding for free milk.

  8. Yes guys, you have the First Amendment. I wish we had this:

    “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion…”

    https://constitution.findlaw.com/amendment1.html

  9. Phantom,

    Religious schools receive very little funding here.

    It’s very different in the UK.

  10. Well said Peter.

  11. There are no state schools in my area. They are pretty much all religious schools. If you banned funding for religious schools in West Belfast you’d pretty much be outlawing education.

  12. Seamus, in that case, it would be discrimination not to fund Muslim schools, unless you went the track that The UK is a Christian kingdom!

  13. Well, legally speaking, the UK is a Christian kingdom. In fact legally speaking it is an Anglican kingdom. Though I would say that education is organised in a very different manner in Northern Ireland than it is in the rest of the UK.

    Only 3% third of schools in England are faith schools. In Northern Ireland 36% of schools are Catholic. 15% are Grammar schools (the bulk of them religious), so likely over half the schools are religiously run.

    Effectively state schools are Protestant (not entirely but that is the general gist of them), while Catholic schools are Catholic. Banning religious education would not only prevent Catholics from running schools, it would largely, short of massive, massive intervention, it would prevent Catholics in many areas from going to school.

  14. Seamus

    The state pays for all schools. It pays the teachers’ salaries and it pays the building costs and upkeep. So there should be no Catholic or Protestants schools in 2019. Both religions can be taught according to parents’ wishes, no?

  15. Honest question. If you get rid of Catholic schools where are Catholics in Northern Ireland going to go to school?

  16. To the same schools, but no longer run by religious institutions and with the option to opt out of religion classes entirely.

  17. The buildings (while paid for by the state) are owned by the religious bodies. So the same schools are not on the table (unless the state wants to pay a lot of money to buy them).

  18. Fair compensation then. It would be worth it to rationalise the schools (far too many) and bring a gradual end to education apartheid. No?

  19. Except it won’t. Firstly the apartheid thing is nonsense. Is anyone really suggesting that Catholic and state schools receive different rights or different levels of support? No. So comparisons to apartheid are silly.

    Ok. In terms of compensation there are 461 Catholics schools in Northern Ireland. There are 61 voluntary schools. 522 – average school has square meterage of about 35,000. Cost per metre of a new build is £1,300 per square metre. So £46,800,000. We’ll call it £45 million just to be neat.

    So £23.5 billion. Or double the entire Northern Ireland budget. Or around 11 times the Education budget for Northern Ireland.

  20. Firstly the apartheid thing is nonsense.

    Seamus

    I meant the word in its Dutch meaning, separate development. I assume the schools receive the same taxpayer funds without discrimination?

  21. “I assume the schools receive the same taxpayer funds without discrimination?”

    They do.

    “I meant the word in its Dutch meaning, separate development.”

    Nonsense. No-one uses the word apartheid to simply demonstrate separation. It is used to cast negative connotation by linking it to South Africa under apartheid.

  22. We’ll call it £45 million just to be neat.

    So £23.5 billion. Or double the entire Northern Ireland budget. Or around 11 times the Education budget for Northern Ireland.

    ????

  23. No-one uses the word apartheid to simply demonstrate separation. It is used to cast negative connotation by linking it to South Africa under apartheid.

    But that’s what we have, two separate education systems, vastly wasteful of taxpayer funds. No?

  24. “But that’s what we have, two separate education systems, vastly wasteful of taxpayer funds. No?”

    There is very little evidence to suggest that there is much waste. Firstly most communities (certainly in cities) are segregated. So schools serving only one community do not cause duplication due to the fact that there is no demand for the other type of school in the local area (causing the problem I highlighted above – there simply are no state schools where I live).

    Additionally what surplus that exists (causing waste) is mostly down to rurality not division. 19% of Northern Ireland school places are currently empty. That is compared to 11% in England, 19% in Wales, 25% in Scotland. Likely speaking the actual cost of the two systems on the taxpayer are negligible.

    “????”

    My estimate of what the cost to nationalise Catholic schools in Northern Ireland. Around £23.5 billion.

  25. Around £23.5 billion.

    Where does that figure get calculated? The total UK budget 2018 is £842 billion.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budget_of_the_United_Kingdom

  26. I extrapolated. The average school has square meterage of about 35,000. Cost per square metre of a new build school is £1,300 per square metre. So I estimated the cost of a school at £46,800,000. I rounded it down to 45 million (for neatness). There are 522 religious schools (counting Catholic schools and voluntary grammars). 522 x 45 million is £23,490 million or 23.5 billion.

    That’s just Northern Ireland. And yes the budget of the UK is £842 billion. Comparing the Northern Ireland cost to the UK budget is silly. You compare the Northern Ireland cost to the Northern Ireland budget.

    The budget for Northern Ireland is £10.97 billion.

    So nationalising the schools in Northern Ireland would take double the Northern Ireland budget.

  27. Shower of commies. There’s nothing wrong with religious schools. Using the disgraceful actions within this madrassa to target all religious schools is sly and disproportionate.

  28. I don’t believe in public ally funded religious schools. In NI it seems hat in hand with continued segregation. Oddly, the segregation is often now supported by those who were originally it’s targets.

  29. Mahons, it’s a legacy of partition. In 1920 the Lynn committee was formed to give advice on educational matters in the new state and was boycotted by the Catholic Church stating:

    “The only satisfactory system of education for Catholics is one wherein Catholic children
    are taught in Catholic schools by Catholic teachers under Catholic auspices’

    […] Over the next two decades, the Protestant churches transferred control of
    their schools to the state, while Catholic churches maintained control of theirs.
    Consequently, state schools became ‘controlled schools’ and the Catholic
    schools as ‘maintained schools’. While teacher salaries in both types were met
    by the state, the state share of capital costs in maintained schools was 50%
    which has now risen to 100% where schools waive the right to a majority on
    the board of governors”

    http://uir.ulster.ac.uk/25133/1/Education_Policy_in_NI_a_Review.pdf

  30. Seamus,

    There are no state schools in my area. They are pretty much all religious schools. If you banned funding for religious schools in West Belfast you’d pretty much be outlawing education.

    I realise that the way it works in Northern Ireland is different to most of the UK. However, this does not change the fact that religious schools are a bad idea. Imagine if you had schools based on political points of view A Marxist school in one area, followed by a Conservative school in another. Soon there are schools catering to every political persuasion. Kids, (who don’t really care about politics), are turned away from certain schools based on their parents political beliefs. also educated to believe that their political point of view, (or rather that of their parents), is the right one. This is how religious schools function and it’s wrong. It teaches kids that they are different to other kids, (usually better), based on their parents religion. This fuels division. Religious belief should be something that a child is shielded from, untill they reach an age where they can make up their own minds. I realise that you can’t enforce this within families but you can certainly stop schools doing it.
    Also, we are seeing more extremist schools springing up, (usually Muslim), some of which I going against guidelines and teaching kids creationism, (as one example), as fact. This is not education this is indoctrination.
    Like politics, religion should be kept out of education.

  31. “It teaches kids that they are different to other kids, (usually better), based on their parents religion. This fuels division.”

    I’m sorry, Dave. That’s simply not true.

    The “extremist schools” argument is separate. Deal with the extremism not the religion.

  32. MourneReg

    That is true Reg. Are there are countless examples of this type of teaching occurring even moderate faith schools.

    I can give an example from my own personal experience. For the last few years of my secondary education I was moved from a mixed sex comprehensive school, to an all boys church of England school. This was because the comprehensive school didn’t have the better qualifications and teachers but the c of e school had. While the educational standard at my new school was better, religious angle was pushed down the kids throats everyday. To my classmates who knew nothing else this didn’t seem unusual but to me it was really quite a shock. The kids were taught that their religious belief was superior and factual to all others. Once a week we went to the church next door to the school for religious services. I remember one sermon the vicar gave, pointing out how he believed evolution was false, and joking that some children were more evolved than others.
    As I said before, religion is divisive and has no place in childrens education.
    School should not be helping indoctrinate children into a particular belief system before they had a chance for their minds to develop and think critically for themselves.

  33. Paul – yes, a hundred year old legacy.

  34. Dave Alton

    “The kids were taught that their religious belief was superior and factual to all others.” When was this taught? Was it before the ecumenical movement?

    If what you say is accurate, those who taught that were wrong. If they were asked to support it with CoE doctrine they would be unable to do so.

    Be careful when applying your one experience too broadly as it may conflict with the experience of others.

  35. Paul – yes, a hundred year old legacy.

    I have to admit being somewhat torn on the issue Mahons.

    Although I largely agree with you in principle both my primary and secondary schooling was with the Brothers and even if they were strict disciplinarians they gave me a fantastic education. But there’s also a reason why unionists largely know little to nothing of Irish history and of course, the CCMS were to the forefront in keeping an teanga beo.

  36. School should not be helping indoctrinate children into a particular belief system before they had a chance for their minds to develop and think critically for themselves.

    Let’s run with that as the background to this absurd case…….

    https://dailystormer.name/uk-diversity-wars-moslem-parents-revolt-against-lgbt-equality-classes-in-school/

    Diversity is our strength because when you bring together very different people and they start fighting over their differences and killing each other, eventually only the strongest survives, and by “strongest” I mean “the one who isn’t sedated and anesthetized by hundreds of years of Jewish social engineering.”

    Daily Mail:

    A school has defended teaching pupils about homosexuality after religious parents signed a petition for the subject to be dropped.

    Up to 400 predominantly Muslim parents signed up, with some even taking their children out of the primary school.

    They are protesting against the No Outsiders In Our School programme, which is taught as part of sex and relationship lessons to promote LGBT equality and challenge homophobia at school.

    These “refugees welcome” people thought they could flood our countries with very different people with very different values and very different ideas and have them coexist with them and many others in some kind of open-border utopia where even the grass turned brown.

    Andrew Moffat, assistant head teacher of Parkfield Community School in Birmingham, said he had been threatened in a leaflet handed out by campaigners.

    Mr Moffat, who is gay, said he faced angry protests by parents who gathered at the school gates.

    A similar dispute with Muslim and Christian parents in December 2013 forced him to resign from another primary school in Birmingham.

    He has a good track record, then. Letting homosexuals near children though… some people never learn.

    Parent Fatima Shah pulled her ten-year-old daughter out of the school, saying it was ‘inappropriate’ and ‘totally wrong’…..

    We respect the British values… but the problem is, he is not respecting our ethos as a community. We don’t send our children to school to learn about LGBT. We send them to school to learn maths, science and English.’

    When the invaders are the voice of reason in your own country, maybe you’ve gone down the wrong path. Maybe it’s time to pause and reconsider. Maybe.

  37. “In NI it seems hat in hand with continued segregation.”

    Segregation is there. If you got rid of Catholic schools (and that is what getting rid of religious schools would be in Northern Ireland – it would be about keeping “Protestant” schools and getting rid of Catholic schools) then segregation would still be there. I was born in Clonard. The Clonard ward of Belfast 90.45% Catholic. The only reason it isn’t higher is that there is a tiny sliver of the Clonard ward that is on the other side of the peace line (and as such isn’t actually part of the Clonard area). On average my primary school (which no longer exists as its been amalgamated with several other local Catholic schools into a larger Catholic school) had 280 pupils. Assuming that the 90.45% was correct (which it wasn’t as some of it includes a little bit of the Shankill, and it probably some of that 6% Protestant includes people in mixed marriages who’s children (given they are going to a Catholic school) are likely raised Catholic) there would be 18 Protestant children, and 9 others, and 253 Catholics.

    So even if religious education was abolished there would still be de facto educational segregation as the communities are segregated.

    ” Imagine if you had schools based on political points of view A Marxist school in one area, followed by a Conservative school in another.”

    I don’t need to. State schools (ie non-religious schools allegedly) do have a particular political philosophy, tending to be more biased towards Unionism. They fly the Union Jack, the sing in the British national anthem at times, etc… while Catholic schools are more likely to learn the Irish language, play Gaelic games, and other things associated with Irish culture. Now I don’t see the later as political (but most Unionists do), while I do see the former as political (which I imagine most Unionist don’t).

    “Religious belief should be something that a child is shielded from, untill they reach an age where they can make up their own minds.”

    I disagree. Firstly people are brought up in all sorts of beliefs (including politics). Did you parents not talk of politics around you, or did they shield you from any political discussion, until you were 18? I doubt it, and you’d have been much the worse for it if they did. Many things potentially divide people. Religion, politics, national identity, class etc… Shielding children from that is not only wrong but also impossible.

    ” The kids were taught that their religious belief was superior and factual to all others. Once a week we went to the church next door to the school for religious services. I remember one sermon the vicar gave, pointing out how he believed evolution was false, and joking that some children were more evolved than others.
    As I said before, religion is divisive and has no place in childrens education.”

    Those people were divisive. Religion is not necessarily. Firstly I was never taught that my religion was superior to other religions, or that being Catholic made me superior to other people. In my primary school we did attend a weekly mass. The chapel we went to is a world famous monastery run by the Congregation of the Most Holy Redeemer (better known as the Redemptorists). Their mission is one of Christian charity. They are dedicated to Our Mother of Perpetual Help, dedicated to helping those in need (spiritual and otherwise). They are also major leaders in Northern Ireland of ecumenicalism (every year they hold a Novena – nine days of prayer – where people come from all over Ireland and abroad. Over 100,000 people attend at least part of the Novena. Every year at this major event, which draws huge congregations, they invite and encourage members of the Protestant churches to come and preach). The Clonard priests Alec Reid and Gerry Reynolds were also pivotal in starting the Northern Ireland Peace Process.

    You had a bad experience of religion. It would be wrong to project that onto all religions and all religious people.

  38. Seamus,

    I don’t need to. State schools (ie non-religious schools allegedly) do have a particular political philosophy, tending to be more biased towards Unionism. They fly the Union Jack, the sing in the British national anthem at times….

    This only strengthens my point a political bias is as bad as a religious one.
    As I’ve already said your educating children to believe in tribalism.

    I disagree. Firstly people are brought up in all sorts of beliefs (including politics). Did you parents not talk of politics around you, or did they shield you from any political discussion, until you were 18? I doubt it, and you’d have been much the worse for it if they did. Many things potentially divide people. Religion, politics, national identity, class etc… Shielding children from that is not only wrong but also impossible.

    Actually my parents didn’t really talk politics to any great degree in in front of me when I was younger. But I realise that doesn’t apply to all parents, on the way some parents talk to their children, such as extremely racist parents can have a very very negative effect on their child. I’m sure you’ll agree with that.
    But that’s completely beside the point Seamus. You can’t really control what parents do, and I agree you can’t realistically she’ll the child from all negative exposure. However you can control how a child is educated at school, and that’s the point I’m making.

    You had a bad experience of religion. It would be wrong to project that onto all religions and all religious people

    I do wish people would stop telling me I’ve had a bad experience with religion or I’m anti religion. To make this perfectly clear, I have not had a bad experience with religion. I spent 7 years in the church choir, which I enjoyed even as an atheist. My experiences in a church of England school were almost all positive.
    Apologies if I’m wrong, but you seem to be trying to make out that I’m somehow negative about religious schools because of supposed bad experiences. I’m negative about religious schools because religion and education must be separate. Indoctrinating children into a particular religion however well-meaning is not a good idea. You can teach children values of decency and compassion, without introducing religion.

  39. New Yorker,

    Be careful when applying your one experience too broadly as it may conflict with the experience of others

    I’m not applying my experience broadly, I’m just giving example of one of many things that happened to me at a C of E school. And I’m pretty sure this is not a unique event. I’m willing to accept the things may have changed for the better in the past 35 years since I was at school. But that does not change my original point. which is that religion and education, do not belong together.

  40. ” I’m negative about religious schools because religion and education must be separate.”

    Again why? Why must the be separate?

    ” Indoctrinating children into a particular religion however well-meaning is not a good idea.”

    I would disagree that teaching children about religion, or teaching them in a religious environment, is indoctrination.

  41. Children are going to pick up values from somewhere, be it the church or the street corner. I would want to inculcate my children with my values of standing for the flag and kneeling for the cross. Another thing I would teach them is to think for themselves, and one day they could tell me I’m full of shit if that’s what they think!

  42. Also, you cannot fully understand the world if you do not understand religious belief for the vast majority in the world have religious belief. I’m not speaking of written doctrine or a religions of the world textbook, but belief in a religion. Just try to understand, for example, Muslims, without having a sense of how and why they believe their religion. I don’t think you can if you do not include the dimension of religious belief.

    In addition, many, if not most, of the best primary and secondary schools in the world are affiliated with a religion. There are historical reasons for that and they prosper in the present day.

    Finally, the ethos of the place where you are educated is important and sometimes overlooked. If you send students off somewhere to religious instruction a few hours a week but all the other time they are in an atmosphere that is hard-edged and brutal, don’t expect the students to be virtuous and have good habits.

    In my opinion, you are not fully prepared for life if your education does not include religion. There are also personal benefits such as self-knowledge, ethical and moral beliefs and the possibility of happiness.

  43. //Firstly I was never taught that my religion was superior to other religions, or that being Catholic made me superior to other people.//

    I was. One of the rules we had to learn was that only Catholics can enter “heaven”. This was stated very frankly in the cathecism. There were other bits saying that only Catholicism is the true religion. There was no question that our religion was to be considered definitely superior to others.

    There was also a more nebulous message that we are the only ones with real souls.

    Probably Anglican schools teach more or less the same, and of course Muslim and Jewish schools are as bad or worse.

    NI sectarian geography is one thing, but for the rest of the world I’d agree with Dave that religious education is divisive.

    NY, you can teach children about religion without teaching them religion. In fact, I’d say that the people teaching a particular religion are the very ones who least want to discuss the phenomenon of religion at all. They want blind acceptance of one religion and complete rejection of all others.

  44. NY, you can teach children about religion without teaching them religion

    That’s true Noel. My own children went to Coláiste Feirste where they were taught about religions as opposed to being taught religion.

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