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March 29th National Vietnam War Veterans Day

By Patrick Van Roy On March 29th, 2019

National Vietnam War Veterans Day is a commemorative holiday in the United States which recognizes the sacrifices that veterans and their families made during the Vietnam War. It is also a day to give proper recognition to the men and women who returned home from that war and didn’t receive a proper welcome home. It’s a holiday that’s been celebrated since 1973 on either March 29th or March 30th of each year through a patchwork of state resolutions. However, in 2017, the date of the holiday was set as March 29th by U.S President Donald Trump. This day is now officially known as National National Vietnam War Veterans Day.

176 Responses to “March 29th National Vietnam War Veterans Day”

  1. Please remind me of what Mr Trump was doing during this era.

  2. Same Thing as Clinton…..

    Trump made this day a National Holiday…….. something no other President since it ended has done.

  3. Patrick Van Roy, on March 29th, 2019 at 6:11 PM Said:
    Same Thing as Clinton…..

    He was getting a blowjob from an intern??

    Under the podium in the Oval Office, in the Whithouse?

    Much kudos to him

    Lucky bastard.

  4. Apocalypse Now.

    Surely, one of the greatest movies ever made.

  5. Which recognizes the sacrifices that veterans and their families made during the Vietnam War

    Like that of John McCain?

  6. What were the sacrifices for? I feel sorry for the guys who went to Vietnam, but why should they be celebrated? The leaders were responsible for losing the war, the soldiers collateral damage. I don’t think celebrations are in order when we lose a war. What other lost wars do we celebrate?

    Clinton was a Rhodes scholar and in law school, Trump was dodging venereal disease – there is a big difference.

  7. Trump didn’t oppose the war

    He avoided it solely due to physical cowardice

  8. We didn’t lose the War NYr.

  9. I honor those veterans.

    I do not honor those who started a war that was a human and moral catastrophe

  10. a different era…. Doctrine of Credibility. Engage in small wars to keep the Russians convinced that we were willing to fight.

  11. Ho Chi Minh offered his hand in friendship and we responded by killing a million Vietnamese. He was a nationalist more than anything else.

    No spin can make that war understandable or justified in any way

  12. Patrick

    “Apocalypse now”

    You have me thinking about rooting about in the loft, searching for my VHS copy of the movie.

    The only thing stopping me is, I don’t own a VHS recorder

    But we do have a smart TV and Netflix.

    😏

  13. lol….. Charlie don’t Surf

  14. How long before we hear turnip telling a crowd he knows more about Vietnam then all the veterans

  15. So napalm in the morning didn’t smell like victory after all?

    He was a nationalist more than anything else.

    Spot on Phantom. Vietnam was a disasterous mistake.

  16. McCain never suffered, only Cadet Bone Spur Jr. suffered.

  17. Emerald Pimpernel, on March 29th, 2019 at 7:12 PM Said:
    How long before we hear turnip telling a crowd he knows more about Vietnam then all the veterans

    Laugh? I nearly died..

    How original

    Turnip…

    Oooh, me sides.

    😏

    TDS runs deep.

    The left really are as mad and insane, as they make out.

    They are not joking, they really are all as mad as a box of frogs.

    But, what do us normal people do?

    Do we laugh or cry?

  18. As mentioned once before, Ho Chi Minh quoted from the US Declaration of Independence when he declared independence from the French colonialists

    He regarded the US as a fellow anti imperial power

    He sent two friendly letters to FDR and or Truman that were never delivered by staff to the president

  19. If you want to see derangement, watch a Trump ” hate rally “

  20. Harri

    You never complained about the many ” black dictator ” posts about Obama

    Can you explain why that was so

  21. Phantom

    I don’t “need” to watch any political rally, involving any “leader”.

    Before its even began, I know full well its all bollocks.

    Do you not also?

    I will assume yes is your answer, you seem to be an intelligent man

    Which begs the question, why fall for any of it in the first place.

    It only encourages them.

    Why bother?.

  22. Phantom, on March 29th, 2019 at 7:24 PM Said:
    Harri

    You never complained about the many ” black dictator ” posts about Obama

    Can you explain why that was so

    Phantom..

    Forget co!our, Obama could have been Klingon with purple dots, it makes no difference to me.

    What Obama was, irrespective of the colour of his skin, was an establishment drone, placed there to screw over us plebs.

  23. Phantom, on March 29th, 2019 at 7:24 PM Said: Edit Comment
    Harri

    You never complained about the many ” black dictator ” posts about Obama

    Can you explain why that was so

    RACIST!

  24. Obama was the worst President the Nation has ever had he weaponized the IRS/FBI/DOJ/NSA/CIA to attack everyday Americans and Political enemies.

    Period.

  25. Phantom.

    How many countries have been invaded by American Military Inc, since President Trump has been in “power”?

    Precisely.

    Is this a good thing?

    I would suggest yes, it is.

  26. He hasn’t been in power for very long

    And he has bombed Syria a lot so I’m not sure what your point is

  27. Phantom, on March 29th, 2019 at 7:50 PM Said:
    He hasn’t been in power for very long

    And he has bombed Syria a lot so I’m not sure what your point is

    So, Trump is no worse than Obama then?

  28. Obama didn’t disrespect NATO and he didn’t fall in love with N Korea dictator

  29. Trump is trying to jump on the Vets bandwagon, despite being a draft dodger. But he has their votes anyway, he’s just shoring up an important part of his base for 2020.

    I expect to see him call for a total ban on abortion. That will shore up the Evangelicals who are already 5:1 supporters. That was an important part of his decision to “recognise” Israel’s annexation of the Golan Heights, the Evangelicals loved it. And he will make further NRA-friendly moves if he gets the chance.

    Trump knows that 2020 is all about getting the vote out. He will not win any Democrats over and he will not win any Independents over. But he can still win again if he gets his vote out.

  30. Phantom, on March 29th, 2019 at 7:57 PM Said:
    Obama didn’t disrespect NATO and he didn’t fall in love with N Korea dictator

    Nope.

    Obama knew his place in the pecking order.

    Trump just can’t (yet) grasp this.

  31. Trump has also got an attack on Iran lined up. Bolton and Bibi both want this very badly. Be sure that the plans are being worked on.

  32. Trump is a weak man who wants to prove he’s a tough man.

    That’s not good.

  33. mentioned once before, Ho Chi Minh quoted from the US Declaration of Independence when he declared independence from the French colonialists

    He regarded the US as a fellow anti imperial power

    He sent two friendly letters to FDR and or Truman that were never delivered by staff to the president

    Phantom, you should read “Small Wars, faraway places”. Among other things it gives a great insight into the US moving from anti-imperialism to often reinstalling colonial regimes for fear of communism.

    The danger of communism was very real but the fear of it led the US (and others) to make some very bad calls. Not supporting Ho was one of the worst.

  34. Oops, block quoted the wrong bit!

  35. Thanks MourneReg

    That was a very paranoid time in the US.

    We didn’t understand the complexities of southeast Asia at all.

    An independent Vietnam could easily have had friendly relations with the US as early as the fifties or sixties.

    The amazing thing is that the US and Vietnam are friendly now. For reasons that include that the US and Vietnam need one another to try to check a rising imperial China.

  36. Peter, on March 29th, 2019 at 9:00 PM Said: Edit Comment
    Trump has also got an attack on Iran lined up. Bolton and Bibi both want this very badly. Be sure that the plans are being worked on.

    can’t happen soon enough….. the only thing I’d agree with John McCain on

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7s5pT3Rris

  37. look the world is not as it was when two democrat Presidents got us into and kept us in Vietnam.

  38. Patrick

    After Iran, what’s your next target?

    Just for the record.

  39. Wrong again.

    Read the history

    US interference in Vietnam had bipartisan political support

    The crackhead Goldwater considered the use of nukes there.

  40. https://www.history.com/news/us-presidents-vietnam-war-escalation

    Senator Barry Goldwater (R-Arizona), running for the Republican Party nomination in the upcoming presidential election, gives an interview in which he discusses the use of low-yield atomic bombs in North Vietnam to defoliate forests and destroy bridges, roads, and railroad lines bringing supplies from communist China. During the storm of criticism that followed, Goldwater tried to back away from these drastic actions, claiming that he did not mean to advocate the use of atomic bombs but was “repeating a suggestion made by competent military people.”

    https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/goldwater-suggests-using-atomic-weapons

  41. Trump knows that 2020 is all about getting the vote out. He will not win any Democrats over and he will not win any Independents over. But he can still win again if he gets his vote out.

    Peter – I have to disagree, and here’s why……

    https://dailystormer.name/thanks-trump-1-5-million-more-migrants-this-year-alone/

    Breitbart:

    The United States is projected to add about 1.5 million illegal aliens to the American population by the end of the year, should current rates of Catch and Release, border crossings, and visa overstays pan out.

    This year, the Department of Homeland Security’s (DHS) Catch and Release policy — whereby border crossers and illegal aliens are readily released from federal custody into the interior of the U.S. — is on track to release roughly 434,000 border crossers and illegal aliens into the country by the end of the year. This projection is based on current estimates that more than 36,000 border crossers and illegal aliens have been released from DHS custody every month since the beginning of the year.

    Additionally, Princeton Policy Advisors researcher Steven Kopits projects that in 2019, there will be up to 500,000 illegal aliens at the southern border who successfully cross into the U.S. undetected by Border Patrol agents. These are foreign nationals whom federal immigration officials are unaware of and are usually only deported after they commit a crime in the U.S.

    Ann Coulter is correct, yet again……

    https://twitter.com/AnnCoulter/status/1111303062843346944

    Ann Coulter
    ‏Verified account @AnnCoulter

    Ann Coulter Retweeted David Martosko

    Michiganders don’t mind being overrun with illegals or their jobs being outsourced, because they are SO GRATEFUL that Trump recognized Israel’s sovereignty over the Golan Heights. Way to go, @realDonaldTrump!

    And the ‘base’ is noticing that they’ve been lied to……

    staleolddonuts
    ‏ @staleolddonuts
    Mar 28
    Replying to @AnnCoulter @realDonaldTrump

    The southern border wall is coming along nicely. lol just kidding this is Israels border wall that you paid for.

    https://twitter.com/deshawnhannity/status/1110323846148698113
    0 replies . 1 retweet 5 likes

    HETERO
    🔥 WIGNAT
    ‏ @VanilaBlond
    Mar 28

    That’s not why trump was voted in over the other candidates. He was voted in to close the border and end immigration all the other stuff is background nonsense. If we wanted “jobs “ and tax cuts for the wealthy we would have voted for Jeb bush . You fucking boomer are cancer

    As I wrote several times, I don’t care who or what Trump is, as long as he builds that wall which was his absolute single imperative – he lied, and he’s not owned by Russia or Putin: he’s owned by Israel, Sheldon Adelson and Benny Netanyahu.

  42. He really is owned by Sheldon Adelson.

    Unlike Trump, Adelson is very rich.

  43. no nope sorry sorry Vietnam belongs to Kennedy and Johnson…. mostly that diseased bastard Johnson.

    Peter there is no next target only Iran that’ll get us 100 years of peace.

  44. Peter, on March 29th, 2019 at 10:32 PM Said:

    Patrick

    After Iran, what’s your next target?

    Just for the record.

    Yes – Iran really needs that central bank, huge national debt, its assets transferred to corporates, and its gold transferred to a location in London or New York. Oh yes – I forgot about debt-laden arms sales, to protect ‘Iranian democracy’

  45. he’s owned by Israel, Sheldon Adelson and Benny Netanyahu.

    Yes Allan. Adelson has bought Trump and he also needs the Evangelicals. That means uncritical support for Israel, including annexing the Golan and attacking Iran. The next Iran war will be used by Bibi as a pretext to annexe the entire West Bank and Trump will support him, to the joy of the Evangelicals and Adelson.

    The attack on Iran is a done deal, but Trump will want to time it with his re-election campaign. My bet is late 2019 or early 2020, but of course Bibi will have a big say as well.

  46. Guys guys…. we are going to war with Iran it is exactly 30yrs overdue and ain’t got nuthin to do with the Jews…..

  47. There will be no war with Iran.

  48. Patrick Van Roy, on March 29th, 2019 at 10:57 PM Said:

    Guys guys…. we are going to war with Iran it is exactly 30yrs overdue and ain’t got nuthin to do with the Jews…..

    Is that those ‘Iranian nukes’ again? How long has that one been played 🙂

    Seriously Patrick – exactly what dispute does Iran have to do with you?

  49. Non nobis, Domine, non nobis, sed Nomini tuo da gloriam

  50. Hey anyone who wants to see a good flick check out the Highwayman on Netflix.

    True story and truer perspective from a proper angle on Bonnie and Clyde.

  51. PVR

    “We didn’t lose the War NYr.” We fled with our tail between our legs.

    You must be the only person who thinks the US did not lose the Vietnam war. Can you name anyone else who thinks so?

  52. I think what Patrick means by the US not having ‘lost’ the war was that the US chose to withdraw because they made the political choice not to throw everything they could have militarily to secure a victory. Had they wanted to defeat the Vietcong they could have but weren’t prepared to suffer the domestic and international consequences of the methods needed to do so.

  53. So that’s how they lost the war then Colm?

  54. I’m only chanelling Patricks thoughts… although I might need to take a headache tablet now 🙂

  55. It is virtually impossible to sussinctly define the war and it’s impact in a paragraph or two. Honorable and dishorable acts weaved into chaos, violence, misery and death. Lives scarred and destroyed. Bravery and cowardice on and off the battlefield. Protests against the war that were at times righteous and at times vile. A searing generational experience, with some lessons unlearned.

  56. While Ho was a committed nationalist he was also a committed communist – a rancid ideology that imposed immeasurable suffering and totolitarian horrors across the globe in the 20th Century. I think hopes that he would have emerged as anything but a despot who executed and imprisoned rivals is wishful thinking.

  57. Totalitarian. Foiled my autocorrect.

  58. //I think hopes that he would have emerged as anything but a despot who executed and imprisoned rivals is wishful thinking//

    It’s a pity that such noble ideologies weren’t applied to unelected military dictator despots who executed and imprisoned rivals by the thousand in South America.

  59. I am opposed to such dictators as well.

  60. That wasn’t directed at you Mahons it was only a comment at how the US were prepared to send soldiers half way around the world to allegedly combat such things while turning a blind eye to such things much closer to home.

  61. and what of the nations across the pond done about the dictators in africa?

    other than for raw materials bot sides of the west ignore the human conditions in the lower continents

  62. The US did not enter the conflict in order to remove a dictatorship. The only reason the US entered the was was part of its global strategy to prevent the spread and influence of Soviet and/or Chinese Communism

  63. In the context of a worldwide threat of communism many errors were made. Sometimes tragically and unjustly.

  64. Mahons, on March 30th, 2019 at 11:33 AM Said: Edit Comment
    It is virtually impossible to succinctly define the war and it’s impact in a paragraph or two. Honorable and dishonorable acts weaved into chaos, violence, misery and death. Lives scarred and destroyed. Bravery and cowardice on and off the battlefield. Protests against the war that were at times righteous and at times vile. A searing generational experience, with some lessons unlearned.

    good comment and you did a good job succinctly defining

  65. New Yorker, on March 30th, 2019 at 5:25 AM Said: Edit Comment
    PVR

    “We didn’t lose the War NYr.” We fled with our tail between our legs.

    You must be the only person who thinks the US did not lose the Vietnam war. Can you name anyone else who thinks so?

    The Soldiers that fought it….. we didn’t run with our tale between our legs. We won every battle.

    Vietnam was stopped by those here at home.

  66. “We won every battle.”

    It would probably be correct to suggest that the US never lost a major battle in Vietnam. It would be another thing entirely to suggest they won every battle. Many of the battles in the Vietnam war ended inconclusively, which is why the war continued for so long and American support for the conflict waned. America was throwing men and material into the meat grinder and often getting very little to show for it, as huge losses were occurring and the Viet Cong were not being pushed back.

  67. The Soldiers that fought it….. we didn’t run with our tale between our legs. We won every battle.

    We?

    Vietnam was stopped by those here at home.

    ‘Those at home’ were the ones who sent the soldiers in the first place. They are also included in the ‘we’ that you speak of above.

    Vietnam was a disasterous mistake and one which the US lost and paid dearly for.

  68. Yes Harri turnip: orange, woody and unappealing

  69. If Ho would have been a despot anyway, he would have had lots of company with the many right wing despots of theta era that the US had no problem with, or the despots that the Republican administration likes now

    We don’t have a right to control every blade of grass outside our borders

    If we had accepted Ho’s very real and public offer of friendship a vast humanitarian crisis would not have happened

    Vietnam is a dictatorship —now—. I don’t lose sleep over that. It’s their country, and things are getting a little better every year there. We got an outcome there that was much better than we deserved, as Vietnam has become a kind of real friend to us.

    There can be no sugar coating – the US was the aggressor there in the fifties and sixties, We backed the French restoration, when he Vietnamese wanted to get rid of them. Without US aid in the fifties, the French might have been kicked out in the early fifties.

    We got played by the French. If the genuinely anti colonial FDR had lived a bit longer, the US might have sent a very different signal to the French.

    You can’t change history but you have to learn something from it. This war and all the deaths and ruin was avoidable. We didn’t have an enemy there until we created one.

  70. I think that view of Ho is very speculative.

  71. New Yorker,

    You must be the only person who thinks the US did not lose the Vietnam war. Can you name anyone else who thinks so?

    I agree. To quote John Cleese, ‘they whooped your ass in Vietnam.’

    I’ve got to say though, out of all the wars, I think Vietnam has the best soundtrack.

  72. The US Did not lose that war in a military sense. We had walked away

    But This was a war that the US could never have won in a million years

  73. Fill your boots Dave:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSUIQgEVDM4

  74. They would have won if General Patrick Van Roy had been commanding 🙂

  75. He knows more than the generals do, just like Cadet Bone Spurs does

  76. The wonderful Ken Burns series on the war was remarkable. So too was the spirit of reconciliation among most combatants on both sides.

  77. This is what Pat’s dreams are made of 😉

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WI8_6acrh0

  78. 58,209….. Americans killed

    1,353,000…… Vietcong killed

    I don’t see a loss

  79. Burns does great work

  80. It was a terrible loss of life on the Vietnamese side which is nothing to brag about. It isn’t a suitable statistic for bragging.

  81. for you Paul

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QbUSjnhv6M

  82. not bragging….. pointing out facts

  83. but you’re right mahons we don’t do bodycounts anymore

  84. One thing I think we can all agree on is as Mahons mentions above, the brilliance of the Ken Burns series on the war.

  85. True

  86. The statistics are subject to a lot of historical debate, but they dont tell the story. There is no question that the war was a failure of our aims.

  87. Paul

    Fill your boots Dave

    Excellent selection Paul. I was singing along whilst I was doing my ironing.

    Let’s complete the set:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLV4_xaYynY

  88. yes but we didn’t lose the war, we lost the reason.

  89. What did those 58,000 Americans die for Pat?

    If you can’t see a loss there then you’re beyond hindsight.

  90. They died to prove to the soviets that we were willing to fight.

  91. It wasn’t a conventional war. Military superiority wasn’t the issue. For the North victory meant staying in the field.

  92. “58,209….. Americans killed

    1,353,000…… Vietcong killed

    I don’t see a loss”

    5,930,000 … Axis War Dead

    18,587,000 … Allied War Dead

    Who really won the Second World War?

  93. different type of war Seamus

  94. It wasn’t just a north thing

    Very many Vietnamese in the south Wanted the US out of their country, As they wanted the French to be out, as they wanted the Chinese to be out

    They was a poor people were used to taking the fight to much stronger imperial powers

    They would have endured 2 million deaths or 5 million deaths

  95. Vietnam was a disaster. On that there is no debate, but we didn’t lose the war militarily we did socially.

  96. Same argument though. The total casualties of both sides are not the determining factor of whether a country won or lost a war. So the huge loses that Vietnam suffered are not relevant to determining who won or lost the Vietnam War.

    Vietnam was reunited under the Communist Party of Vietnam, while the US backed South Vietnam was crushed. Overwhelmingly the United States, or the side of the United States, lost the Vietnam War.

  97. “Vietnam was a disaster. On that there is no debate, but we didn’t lose the war militarily we did socially.”

    You couldn’t win it militarily either.

  98. A military solution from our standpoint was unattainable, as our leaders knew but pretended otherise. To the extent there was any related victory for democracy it was the people who demanded it come to an end.

  99. Seamus,

    “58,209….. Americans killed

    1,353,000…… Vietcong killed

    I don’t see a loss”

    5,930,000 … Axis War Dead

    18,587,000 … Allied War Dead

    Who really won the Second World War?

    Excellent point Seamus.

  100. //They died to prove to the soviets that we were willing to fight//

    An entirely contrived opinion. The US lost the Vietnam War in political terms and couldn’t be won in military terms either. Mahons calls it right above and any other theory is constructed merely to save narcissistic face.

  101. 407,300…. American military deaths ww2

    2,300,000… Japanese military deaths ww2

    5,318,000… German military deaths ww2

    We Won

  102. nonsense Paul

  103. It is not those who can inflict the most, but those that can suffer the most who will prevail.

  104. roflmao……

  105. America killed 1 million Viet Cong. And they could take it. Vietnam killed 50,000 Americans. And they couldn’t.

  106. oh ok…. you keep telling yourself that… lol

  107. It’s not Pat. Vietnam was fought to rid the country of Communism and Communism prevailed.

    Mahons has it right above and your ‘to prove to the Soviets we could fight’ is an entirely invented concept.

  108. ok

  109. well It’s my opinion……. 😉

  110. Seamus

    You’re on fire today mate! Back of the net.

  111. Fair enough although it’s one entirely invented by yourself in order to cover defeat in Vietnam.

  112. there was no defeat IN Vietnam there was a defeat at home.

  113. Patrick you have it backwards, there was never going to be a military victory in Vietnam for the US. Ending the war by opposition to it at home was the “victory”.

  114. I can agree with that worded that way.

  115. The purpose of the Vietnam war was to overthrow it’s Communist government. Communism prevailed and the US were defeated in it’s objective.

    Mahons is correct.

  116. As Paul and Mahons I’ve already pointed out. the definition of whether you were Victorian house in war you surely did you achieve your objectives.
    For instance in the second world war the objective was to defeat the axis powers, which was achieved. In Vietnam the objective was to overthrow the Communist government, which was not achieved.

  117. Apologies for my awful speech to text

    As Paul and Mahons have already pointed out. the definition of whether you were Victorious in a war is did you achieve your objectives.

  118. mahons

    Do you agree that the US was wrong not to respond positively in any way to Ho Chi Minh’s friendly overtures in the 1945

    On September 2, 1945, Ho Chi Minh proclaimed the independent Democratic Republic of Vietnam in Hanoi’s Ba Dinh square. The first lines of his speech repeated verbatim the famous second paragraph of America’s 1776 Declaration of Independence.

    All men are created equal. They are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, among them are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.”

    Vietnam Declaration of Independence

    This
    is a copy of Ho’s correspondence to President Truman, that was never delivered to the president in February 1946.

    He’s not being hostile to the US, he’s asking for American help in resisting a restored French imperial rule.

    This war was never inevitable. It was stumbled into by Truman, Eisenhower, JFK, Johnson.

    We knew nothing about that culture, that history. Nothing.

    And the French had the glow of supposedly being our allies, supposedly being the victims in the Second World War. So of course we backed DeGaulle, rather than backing some Asian guy who no one ever heard of.

    Few in the US public know of the above speech and letter now, pretty much no one in the public knew about it in the sixties.

    We stumbled into disaster. That is not any excuse the four US presidents, for McNamara, for any of the architects of disaster.

    Easy to get into war, hard to get out of one. So, let’s bomb Iran.

  119. Note that Ho makes direct reference to the US Declaration of Independence, and then to the Atlantic and San Francisco charters.

    He had the gall to think that those fancy words applied to Vietnamese as well as to Americans and Europeans.

    Remember at the time the US was not backing any south Vietnamese government. It didn’t exist yet. In the forties and for a time after that we were supporting French colonialists.

    They didn’t teach us that in school in America.

  120. //March 29th National Vietnam War Veterans Day//

    Does that include the failures, the losers who were captured or killed?

    Saving that the US didn’t lose a battle is worthless, as there were practically no conventional battles fought in Vietnam. The US wasn’t defeated but it still lost the war.

    The VietCong and NV didn’t need to win battles. All they needed – as I believe George Washington said in his day – was not to lose their army, to stick it out and not be defeated or lose their base. They knew they could persevere longer than the Americans could. In the immortal words of Terence McSweeney, quoted above by Seamus, victory went to those who could endure the most.

    They were determined and tenacious, but of course also vicious and at times barbaric.

    Usually in a war, there’s more or less a badish guy fighting the goodish guy. In Vietnam there were three bad guys, and it’s hard to tell which one was the worst.

  121. The north Vietnamese and Viet Cong were monstrously cruel to civilians.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_at_Hu%E1%BA%BF

    This is only one of the atrocities. Children and infants were singled out for murder, if their parents were the wrong people.

  122. General Giap remembers

    NYT, 1990

    [ The modern American equipment that the South Vietnamese had was useless ] ” The human factor had been decisive ”

  123. Phantom – he certainly wanted to keep the French from returning to power. US support would have helped him with that, but what if is a speculative game in history. He was no Democrat or supporter of individual freedom. He was also fully embedded in the global communist movement and it is inconceivable that he would have morphed into some staunch ally.

  124. Now you’re the revisionist.

    Vietnam under communism is 99% an ally with the USA –today–, an astonishing development.The US and Vietnamese military have friendly relations. Trade booms. 76% of Vietnamese have positive views of the USA.

    https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/04/30/vietnamese-see-u-s-as-key-ally/

    There is no reason to believe that this type of thing could not have happened then, especially if we had lifted a finger to prevent the French from returning as colonial masters.

  125. There is no reason why a communist government cannot be an ally with the US.

    The friendship between the peoples is more important than any capitalism vs communism debate, as are the economic and security interests of both nations.

    The US is an asset to Vietnam and its drive for prosperity and for security against a rising imperial China. China is the eternal enemy of Vietnam, the US was the temporary enemy.

    Likewise Vietnam is of great use to the US a check against China. Japan/Vietnam/the US are the only thing keeping China from completely running rampant in the region.

  126. My memory is apparently fading. Remind me of all those communist countries we enjoyed an alliance with in the 1950s and 1960s.

  127. We have an alliance with communist Vietnam today. It’s not formal, but it is real.

    https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/evolution-us-vietnam-ties

    Credit for this is due to President Clinton, under whom diplomatic relations were established, and to the late Senator McCain, whose moral stature would have allowed him to thrwart relations had he chosen to do so. Instead, he was a strong voice for reconciliation.

    And communist Yugoslavia was a de facto ally with the USA. We sent them military aid.

  128. After Clinton, GW Bush, Obama, and now Trump have followed down the path of reconciliation and alliance. With a Vietnam that most certainly is still communist, though with a mixed economy.

    All four presidents have been correct on this.

  129. Vietnam still makes us suffer today. People died fighting it and people died protesting it. It ripped this country apart. As you can see it still evokes very sharp lines.

    The world we live in is not the World of back then. It used to be the two great powers plaid chess but MAD kept the lid on.

    Now fanatics have Atomic Weapons without the sensibility or fear that you need to go with them. It only takes one to kill millions. The prevention of this at any cost is all that matters.

  130. Unlike Ho in 1945, Iran really is an enemy who wishes to remain an enemy of the US.

    Attempts to reconcile have been made by the US, including by Clinton and Obama, with not enough to show for it.

  131. yup…. and I’m afraid the insanity won’t be stopped until they take that one shot.

  132. The only reconciliation that Iran is the one thing the US can not abide, they need to be left alone to run their country the way THEY WANT TO

  133. Iran Has meddled in the internal affairs of many countries

    You might want to look it up

    You can’t criticize the US for interference if you turn a blind eye to when others do it

  134. //My memory is apparently fading. Remind me of all those communist countries we enjoyed an alliance with in the 1950s and 1960s.//

    Memory lapses happen to all of us sooner or later 🙂

    Up to Pres. Johnson’s time, the US had close ties to Yugoslavia. Washington thought YU should be supported in its atttempts to keep out of the Warsaw Pact and Soviet influence, after Tito cut ties with the SU in 1948. The US then starting suppliying military aid and other goods and did so for many years.

    The relationship didn’t sour until Vietnam. Also, in the mid 1960s the US was starting to develop ties to other European communist countries, and YU wasn’t so interesting for Washington any more.

    The US of course had extremely close relations with the SU itself until around 1946, and supplied the Soviets with arms and other equipment during WWII.

    Phantom’s point seems to be that there was nothing in principle preventing friendship between the US and a communist country, especially if it helps the US in the global power game, and the examples of Yugoslavia and the SU beforehand bear him out.

  135. The SU alliance was out of utter necessity to defeat Germany. Yugoslavia was not exactly an ally.

  136. You will not have the benefit if the lessons of history if you have a rose-tinted view of history. The US lost the Vietnam war and did not learn any lessons. The main US objective in Vietnam was to stop Communism. The North Vietnamese chased the US out of South Vietnam. The US did not obtain its objective and did not hold the territory it had held. The image of people clinging onto helicopters as they left off the US embassy in escape is an apt one.

    Thirty years later a bobble-head declared war on Terrorism – another “ism”. The lessons of Vietnam were not learned. As before the US used WWII means to fight a different type of war. Both Vietnam and the War on Terror show incompetent political and military decision-making. There are a few US military strategists who realized the mistakes, but at the top political and military level it was criminal incompetence which to some degree is due to historical ignorance.

    The US lost the Vietnam War, we should be honest about it and learn the lessons because we have evidence that a rose-tinted view of history can lead to additional disaster.

  137. Phantom you are the pot calling the kettle black

    Nobody meddles in other countries more than the US

  138. I’ve condemned the US for its crimes. On this thread.You may want to read the comments

    You take the attitude that because the US has done some horrible things, that it’s great when other nations engage in such predatory behavior.

    Maybe we should condemn all aggression. Ever think of that?

  139. NYr displays what one segment of the nation FEELS quite well, but as usual it’s what they FEEL not facts or truth.

    The US Military won in vietnam. It was only a war against communism in it’s sales package The main US objective in Vietnam was to keep the Russians nervous and to test new equipment and tactics, the introduction of American AirCav.

    To say we learned nothing is pure bull. The Vietnam war taught us a lot, and not just militarily. We did away with the draft, we disengaged from minor conflicts and didn’t mobilize our fighting forces again until 3000 were killed in a sneak attack and what’s NYr’s response to that….. Thirty years later a bobble-head declared war on Terrorism – another “ism”. The lessons of Vietnam were not learned. so responding to 9/11 was the act of a bobble head….. you ever been to that big hole in the Ground in NY NewYorker?

    Yeah the peace, love, and bobby sherman crowd…… people like NYr don’t live in the real world.

  140. Patrick

    I think you’ve forgotten one war between Vietnam and 9/11. The gulf war of 1991.

  141. yes thank you Colm…..

    although that was more of a 6 month live fire exercise rather than a real war it went from Aug-Feb

  142. Panama and Grenada.

    We didn’t win in Vietnam. And we were not simply there to make Russians nervous and test tactics. If that was our purpose then it would have been an utter moral abomination.

  143. any engagement that lasts under 6mths is not a war.

  144. Korea, Vietnam and the WOT are real wars….

    The point I was making in response to NYr was to say we didn’t learn anything from nam is just stupid.

  145. If that was our purpose then it would have been an utter moral abomination.

    Which is exactly why Vietnam tore this country apart.

  146. There were other conflicts . Panama, Grenada

    Even Vietnam was technically to some not a war as it was undeclared

    Even though it was a major war

    There would be few in the US who seek to justify the Vietnam War in any way now.

    A work friend back in the day was drafted at maybe 18 years of age. Italian kid from Brooklyn. He had no interest in politics, he didn’t know where Vietnam was

    Six months later, the helicopter he was was riding in was shot down in the jungle.

    He survived, had a good life, many others didn’t.

    And all for no good reason

  147. I’m not justifying Vietnam, I lost family there. I’m just laying out the facts. Both positive and negative.

    No one has commented that the song on this post is a protest song……

  148. There is an internet radio station called Vietnam Vet Radio

    They play music that the men would have heard during that time, and they post messages of interest to the vets who listen to it

    An unusual thing, but I think it’s pretty cool. You can listen to it right here

    https://vietnamvetradio.org

  149. It was set up by people in Oklahoma, And is maintained with the assistance of volunteers throughout the country

  150. The US Military won in vietnam. It was only a war against communism in it’s sales package The main US objective in Vietnam was to keep the Russians nervous and to test new equipment and tactics, the introduction of American AirCav

    An entirely invented proposition.

    The US Military were defeated in their objective in Vietnam too. They didn’t win.

  151. The only good thing about the Vietnam war was that it gave rise to the leftie counterculture opposing it, and that changed society all over the developed world forever.

    When conservatives and right-wingers here complain about things, they are generally complaining about things brought about by the opposition to Vietnam and the aftermath of that movement. There’s certainly a lot to complain about there, but generally the changes were necessary and overall for the good. People forget how pig-headed society generally was up to the later 1960s.

    The counterculture also produced a lot of great music, easily compensating for its many crappy films.

  152. This was a good film

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4d7KhGmQbEE

  153. Limbaugh here says that The NY Times lied about Russiagate

    Can anyone here tell me what those “ lies “ were?

  154. everything they published about it…..

  155. PVR

    “The main US objective in Vietnam was to keep the Russians nervous and to test new equipment and tactics”. Wrong. Presidents and Generals said the objective was to stop communism.

    “To say we learned nothing is pure bull.” We did not learn the two main lesions. The first is that you should fight a specific enemy like the Vietcong or AQ. The second is that you should employ specific resources and strategies to effectively wipe out that enemy. In the case of Vietnam the US made forays into various countries in pursuit of various communist groups when the exclusive focus should have been on the Vietcong. The Vietcong were little more than guerilla fighters and the US acted like it was fighting WWII. There are much better ways to fight guerillas. Moreover, Vietnam was essentially a nationalist war with the North wanting to take over the South. The US was so obsessed with Communism that it did not realize that. If we had, we would probably have been wiser to stay out of a nationalist war.

    On 9/11 the US was attacked by AQ. We declared war against Terrorism, when it should have been specifically AQ. Again, the US acted like it was fighting WWII. Large deployments of army instead of specialists were used. AQ was caught in Tora Bora and somehow escaped. AQ was only a few hundred fighters at the time and could have been wiped out by US specialized forces. The mistakes were due to not learning from the mistakes of Vietnam. Fighting Terrorism and not specifically focused on AQ plus not using the correct resources and strategies were major mistakes. The cost of the mistakes from not learning from Vietnam have been enormous in lives and resources. What should have been the extinction of the few hundred AQ fighters at Tora Bora became an ill fought war in several countries that takes US lives to this day. But if you can’t be honest about Vietnam, you have not learned the lessons and are likely to repeat the mistakes again and again.

  156. Many Vietnamese never saw it as an issue of north and south. They did not see two countries, they saw one.

    I think that many of them saw this war as a continuum. This was a comparatively small country That, like Korea, like Ireland, had to fight for its life as a nation against much stronger countries.

    For centuries, they had fought the Chinese and French, This was yet another chapter in expelling the invader

    —.

    The well armed – by the US –South Vietnamese were very corrupt, and they were not great fighters. The North Vietnamese and Vietcong were not corrupt, and they were ferocious fighters

    If the south Vietnam had not fallen, if it was still around , If they had killed every last Vietcong, How would anything be better that it is now?

    Considering what went down in that period, I think that the situation inside Vietnam and between Vietnam and the US is much better than anyone could have predicted.

  157. Considering what went down in that period, I think that the situation inside Vietnam and between Vietnam and the US is much better than anyone could have predicted.

    agreed

    NYr I can accept your view and argument on Vietnam because it’s your view and opinion I agree with some of it but not all. Your view of the WOT however is just wrong. AQ is just on of a 1000 groups of kooks all of which come out of that region all that are our enemies as declared by them not us. All backed by Iran and Saudi Arabia.

    Terrorists killed 3000 people on American soil. It was time to make a point and bring forth the consequences of such actions.

  158. AQ is just on of a 1000 groups of kooks all of which come out of that region all that are our enemies as declared by them not us

    That’s correct

    You could kill all AQ today, that would be a good development but it would not cure the problem at all

  159. PVR

    ” Your view of the WOT however is just wrong. AQ is just on of a 1000 groups of kooks all of which come out of that region all that are our enemies as declared by them not us. All backed by Iran and Saudi Arabia.” The US should have and could have wiped out AQ when they were holed up in Tora Bora. The other groups you refer to are mostly outgrowths of the AQ that escaped. It would not now be such a problem if it were nipped in the bud. I agree that Iran and Saudi Arabia should have been confronted from the beginning for exporting terrorism, failure to do so continues to cause problems.

  160. The WOT is a fake, a sham, a fraud as long as the major proponet of the WOT accepts bribes from and turns a blind eye to the activities of a major exponent of that terror.

  161. -a- major proponent

    Saudi Arabia supports terror, as does Iran, as does Pakistan.

  162. Harri, on March 6th, 2018 at 7:09 PM Said:
    North Korea can ditch all it’s weapons.

    It won’t make a blind bit of difference, not until it allows the correct central banking cartel to replace the one they have already got.

    In the year of 2000 there were seven countries without a Rothschild owned Central Bank:

    Afghanistan
    Iraq
    Sudan
    Libya
    Cuba
    North Korea
    Iran

    Now there are only 3

    Cuba
    North Korea
    Iran

    Basically, it’s irrelevant what these last three countries ‘give up’.

    They are royally screwed.

  163. That ” central bank ” stuff is complete goddamned bullshit

    Cuba and North Korea keep their population in deep poverty and without any human rights of any kind

    No comments about that from the peanut gallery

  164. Saudi Arabia also promotes, funds and supports religious terror in the form of Wahhabism

    While the major proponent of the so called WOT accepts the bribes of billion $ arms deals from the head of the snake of the majority of Jihad terrorism the WOT is phony.

  165. The US has played a dangerous game with the two faced Saudis and Pakistanis since forever.

    Bill Maher said in or about 2001 that the real problem was SA and Pakistan, not Afghanistan. He was spot on correct.

  166. Phantom, on April 1st, 2019 at 7:36 PM Said:
    That ” central bank ” stuff is complete goddamned bullshit

    And Venezuela.

  167. Phantom, on April 1st, 2019 at 7:36 PM Said:
    That ” central bank ” stuff is complete goddamned bullshit

    Of course it is…

    The end results are just pure magical coincides.

  168. Another country that has starved its people, and which has blocked food aid.

    harri, you picked a bad bunch of regimes to feel sorry for

  169. Phantom

    My crystal ball is clearer than yours.

  170. That ” central bank ” stuff is complete goddamned bullshit

    Is there any actual hard evidence that the Rothschild’s actually own these banks or is it confirmed by mooncat blogs and Youtube videos?

  171. Allan will produce a document from an unknown Turkish publication to prove the theory

  172. harri

    Can you give a list of about five countries that generally get it right in your opinion as respects the way the population is treated, as respects how they get along with other countries too

    I’ve produced such a list in less than a minute ( Finland, Norway, New Zealand, Chile, Canada )

  173. Look out for a new film coming up about the Afghanistan war. A good one by all accounts, made by an ex-marine.

  174. I know someone in service there now.

    I worry.

  175. Apparently drugs, suicide and depression there are more dangerous than the Taleban.

  176. Phantom, on April 1st, 2019 at 9:20 PM Said: Edit Comment
    I know someone in service there now.

    I worry.

    I’ll add him to my prayers. Conditions are better than they were but your still in enemy land no matter where in country you are. If he’s still there he’s been in for awhile and knows to be cautious.