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I’M AN ENGLISHMAN

By Pete Moore On March 29th, 2019

I think a man should be taken at his word and expect to be taken at his word. So I think it’s dishonourable to knowingly betray a promise. Once done, the stain can never be erased. The stench will always linger. That person will always be iffy. I know it sounds old fashioned, in these post-democrat days in this post-democratic land, but a wrong’un is a wrong’un in the eyes of of the honest.

We were supposed to leave the EU tonight. The Tories are already putting out the line that Labour voted down Brexit. Labour is irrelevant. Parliament approved the triggering of Article 50, which mandates leaving the EU with or without a withdrawal treaty. The Tories have a majority with the steadfast DUP. It was wholly within the power of the Tory Party and the Tory Prime Minister to leave the EU tonight. They chose to not do so. They chose to renege on multiple promises. They chose dishonour.

We’ll leave the EU one day. That cat is out of the bag. It might even happen as soon as 12th April. But never forget that being a Tory is a stain. From tonight, anyone calling himself a Tory should be shunned and excluded.

And from tonight onward, for the first time in a thousand years, we know that laws will be imposed by force and not consent. They are not legitimate and have no moral or ethical force. Anyone disobeying EU-imposed laws will have right on their side.

99 Responses to “I’M AN ENGLISHMAN”

  1. What Brexit has achieved?

    Its let the Genie out of the bottle.

    And its not going back in.

    How many more times?

    Our so called peers are nothing more, and nothing less,than self serving elitist charlatan shits.

    Do you actually get it now?

  2. We’ll leave the EU one day

    No problem Pete. When that happens we can just ‘slide across to another circle’

    http://www.atangledweb.org/?p=63675

  3. We’ll leave the EU one day

    No we won’t.

    The establishment will not allow it.

  4. you people voted these clowns into office……. we get the governments we bring on ourselves.

  5. Patrick

    We didn’t vote the EU emperors, of the new EU empire into office.

  6. Labour is irrelevant.

    No Pete, you let them off too lightly. They promised to respect the referendum result and have reneged on that promise. Corbyn and McDonnell are soft Brexiters but Starmer is a hard Remainer and he appears to be calling the tune now.

    On Monday Parliament will finish the “indicative votes” process and there is a chance that a customs union Brexit will get a majority. As I have posted before, that seems to me to be a sensible compromise. We would leave the Single Market and end free-movement, thereby respecting the 52% vote to leave, but respect the 48% who voted to remain by retaining a close trading relationship.

    Failing that it’s either a no-deal exit on 12 April or an extended extension until the end of next year. I hate both of those options but I hate no-deal more.

  7. Lol. The “steadfast” DUP are the ones that scuppered Brexit with their idiocy and hypocrisy on the backstop.

    NI could be having it’s cake and eating it with unfettered access to both UK and EU27 markets and the UK entering the transition period at 11pm tonight on its way to Brexitopia.

    Instead, no Brexit, the UK in chaos, Westminster a laughing stock, and a likely border poll looming in NI.

    “Steadfast” indeed.

  8. The customs union compromise is a sensible option. It gets my approval and that means it’s a good deal. 😉

  9. Colm, on March 29th, 2019 at 7:41 PM Said:
    The customs union compromise is a sensible option. It gets my approval and that means it’s a good deal. 😉

    Good enough reason alone to not touch it with a barge pole.

    😏

  10. Agreed Reg but you must admit it’s pretty amusing that the most loyal of loyal loyalists to the Crown, the DUP, have HM’S Government subserviant to them.

  11. the steadfast DUP

    The DUP voted against May’s deal today and therefore against Brexit. As it turned out the majority was 58 so their 10 votes were irrelevant. Nigel Dodds has now confirmed that they would prefer the UK to remain in the EU rather than risk the union, but their vote today makes a no-deal Brexit on 12 April more likely. And a no-deal Brexit will bring a united Ireland closer, as they well know.

  12. No Pete, you let them off too lightly. They promised to respect the referendum result and have reneged on that promise. Corbyn and McDonnell are soft Brexiters but Starmer is a hard Remainer and he appears to be calling the tune now.

    That is about as useful as listening to “them” on party manifesto’s.

    It means the absolute zero sum of…fuck all

  13. Paul McMahon, on March 29th, 2019 at 7:47 PM Said:
    Agreed Reg but you must admit it’s pretty amusing that the most loyal of loyal loyalists to the Crown, the DUP, have HM’S Government subserviant to them.

    Ho hum, says the ATW resident anti anything British racist.

  14. Paul,

    More BEmusing that the fate of the once mighty United Kingdom is being decided by village idiot (and part-time naturist), Sammy Wilson.

  15. Peter –

    Labour is irrelevant because the Tories + Steadfast DUP are the majority.

    You were unkind about me last night, implying that I was avoiding answering a question from Phantom.

    I was in bed.

  16. The DUP voted against May’s deal today and therefore against Brexit.

    Are we not thinking? May’s treaty would have broken up the UK while keeping all of it in the EU. All that would have changed is that we’d have lost our votes. It was worse than simply remaining.

  17. Pete

    Being in bed is not a good enough excuse to avoid answering a question from an ATW stalwart 😉

  18. You were unkind about me last night, implying that I was avoiding answering a question from Phantom.

    No unkindness waa intended Pete, but it looks like you still haven’t answered Phantom’s questions on the other thread?

  19. Reg, best description I’ve ever heard of ‘let them eat chips’ Sammy:

    ‘He looks like a gepography teacher who just came from a fist fight in the staff room’

    The British aren’t a race Harri.

    You’re welcome.

  20. May’s treaty would have broken up the UK while keeping all of it in the EU.

    No, May’s treaty is a two year phased withdrawal agreement during which it is intended that a long-term agreement is negotiated, including a free trade deal.

  21. This is directly at Colm.

    I’m an Englishman, I am married to a Slovakian, I have four “European” Slovakian daughters, and two British Sons, I work, and have worked for a German company for a touch over 43 years, I have German share, and own properties in the Czech, Bratislava, Slovakia, and England.

    I have far more to lose than Colm holed up in his London bolthole.

    So, Colm, please explain to me exactly why I, you, me and mine “need” to be part of a new Brussels empire?

    Colm.

    If you can convince me, its in my (and my families) interest, I will join the darkside, and become a fully fledged Brussels new empire drone, and join you on your quest to serfdom.

    I can’t say fairer than that.

    Go on Colm knock yerself out.

    Convince me.

  22. Peter –

    There are too many comments now on that thread. An answer would be lost. I’m not sure anyway what Phantom meant by his question, but it appears to raise a principle which I might post about.

    The treaty would give the EU a permanent right of veto over our leaving the EU. It is simply intolerable. It also subsumes the Armed Forces into the EU’s military command. It’s not just the backstop. It’s full of horrors.

    https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/12/the-top-40-horrors-lurking-in-the-small-print-of-theresa-mays-brexit-deal-2/

  23. The treaty would give the EU a permanent right of veto over our leaving the EU. It is simply intolerable. It also subsumes the Armed Forces into the EU’s military command. It’s not just the backstop. It’s full of horrors.

    https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/12/the-top-40-horrors-lurking-in-the-small-print-of-theresa-mays-brexit-deal-2/

    Good luck with that veto..little Ireland.

    You have new masters now.

  24. I work, and have worked for a German company for a touch over 43 years

    There’s no greater tribute to the Britisher spirit than that you’ve kept your sense of humour.

  25. Pete.

    Precisely

    Even against all the resident lefty ATW attempts.

    Its still there.

    😱

  26. Yes it’s still there, but it foams at the mouth sometimes 😉

  27. Pete

    My position is that the UK or any other nation has a sovereign right to determine what their own food safety rules are. I don’t think that other nations deserve any voice in the matter.

    Do you agree with this?

  28. Phantom –

    Yes of course. But you have been a touch less than effusive about the UK being a sovereign, independent and self-governing nation. You know, like your own.

    Which means you are less than effusive about the UK escaping the EU’s crappy food rules.

  29. From James Forsyth at The Spectator. I agree in general but I think that he underestimates the chances of the EU refusing to extend the extension. Macron said very clearly last week that he would oppose it, which would mean a no-deal Brexit on 12 April:

    “The chances of a lengthy delay to Brexit have just increased substantially. The withdrawal agreement has been defeated by 58 votes, which means that there’s little point in the government bringing it back next week even if it could find a procedural way to do so. The 34 Tory rebels means that even if some way could be found to reassure the DUP, the government still wouldn’t have the numbers to win.

    Parliament’s actions mean that this country’s immediate future is now in the hands of the EU. There’ll be a special EU Council on the 10 of April to decide whether or not to grant the UK a further extension. I still think it is unlikely that the EU will force a no-deal exit on the UK, but it will insist on this country taking part in the European Parliament elections if we are going to remain in the EU beyond April 12th.

    One consequence of a lengthy extension is likely to be a general election. After the result was announced, Theresa May declared that ‘we are reaching the limits of this process in this House’, which is her clearest indication yet that she is thinking about a general election. While both Jeremy Corbyn and the SNP called for an election. But an election raises almost as many questions as it might answer. Who, for instance, would lead the Tories into that election and what would Labour’s policy on Brexit be? The one thing that is for certain, is that uncertainty will continue to define our country’s politics.”

    https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/03/mays-loss-means-britain-is-heading-for-a-lengthy-brexit-delay/?utm_source=Adestra&utm_medium=email&utm_content=Evening%20_Blend_20190329&utm_campaign=Evening_Blend

  30. Pete

    I’ve been consistently sympathetic to the British request for a return to national sovereignty. I posted on it on the day of the Brexit vote.

    http://www.atangledweb.org/index.php?s=a+nation+once+again

    My only relevant caveats since then

    a) the Brits don’t know what they want. It’s hard to get what you want when you don’t know what you want. You boys have been like Trump on health care – you know what you’re against, but you’re very fuzzy on details as to what you are for.

    b) Any British move shouldn’t in any way interfere with Ireland or the GFA. The Irish matter is more important than British independence is.

  31. Here is how the EU has evolved into a neo-liberal federalist empire:

    “Originally, the EU was an organisation for joint economic planning among six adjacent countries. The planning was sectorally specific, limited to coalmining and the steel industry, later also nuclear power, in the context of the state-managed capitalism of the postwar era. Then it grew into a free-trade zone, increasingly devoted to spreading neoliberal internationalism, in particular the free movement of goods, services, capital and labour, under the rubric of the Internal Market.

    As the number and heterogeneity of member states continuously increased, ‘positive integration’ became ever-more difficult. Instead, there was ‘negative’ integration: the removal of substantive regulations that impeded free trade within the bloc. After the end of Communism in 1989, the EU became a geostrategic project, closely intertwined with the US’s geostrategy in relation to Russia. From the original six countries cooperating in the management of a few key sectors of their economies, the EU became a neoliberal empire of 28 highly heterogeneous states. The idea was and is to govern those states centrally by obliging them to refrain from state intervention in their economies.

    The EU’s de facto constitution consists of the Treaty of European Union, which is practically impossible to revise, and the rulings of the Court of Justice of the European Union, which only the court itself can revise. The neoliberal core of the EU as an institution and the results of European integration were intended by its framers to be eternal and irreversible. This is shown by the hard opposition in Brussels to a British exit, and in the intention to make that exit as unpleasant as possible…”

    https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/03/29/the-eu-is-an-empire/

  32. Oh please Peter:

    the EU became a neoliberal empire of 28 highly heterogeneous states. The idea was and is to govern those states centrally by obliging them to refrain from state intervention in their economies

    The EU ‘a neoliberal empire’ really? The EU has s deregulated economy free from government influence?

    I’ve told you about the Living Marxism crowd before. When it comes to the EU their ‘analysis’ is about as non partisan and credible as Guido Fawkes.

  33. Phantom –

    a) the Brits don’t know what they want.

    But we do. We want to leave the EU. This is incontestable.

    b) Any British move shouldn’t in any way interfere with Ireland or the GFA.

    Our sovereignty doesn’t, but the ROI has interfered severely with the UK.

  34. Pete

    The pro Brexit politicians and others are in agreement in all significant details of what Brexit should mean?

  35. We want to leave the EU

    Fine:

    The EU and the Single Market are two separate and distinct entities […]

    The Single Market is the EEA, the European Economic Area. No-one is proposing to leave it, no-one is campaigning to leave it, and the UK will not leave it. The referendum is about whether or not the UK will remain in the EU. The question has nothing to do with the Single Market

    Sounds to me like you’ve got the bones of an acceptable compromise there Pete.

  36. But the ROI has interfered severely with the UK

    How so?

  37. Paul

    Please explain how the EU is not neoliberal, because this will be news to the people of Greece and the people of Italy and the people of Spain and the people of Ireland. All of them have felt the neoliberal lash of the deflationary bias of the Germans. As in savage austerity, mass unemployment, mass emigration etc. You live in Spain so you must be well aware of this.

  38. Peter, classical neoliberalism advocates a deregulated economy with minimum governmental interferance in the market.

    That’s how.

  39. Dodds says the “stalwart” DUP would prefer Remain to May’s deal:

    https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/1111672627414872064?s=20

  40. Paul

    You will be aware that the EU has strict rules against state aid to companies, and the Eurozone limits budget deficits to 2%. Most would describe that as neoliberalism. Just ask Yannis Varoufarkis, he experienced it at first hand when socialist Greece dared to rebel in 2015 and was slapped down very hard by the Germans and their little helpers.

    This has always been anathema to the Labour left (Benn, Corbyn etc) but under Blair Labour fell into line, and Keir Starmer is very much an EU groupie just like Blair was.

  41. You will be aware that the EU has strict rules against state aid to companies, and the Eurozone limits budget deficits to 2%. Most would describe that as neoliberalism.

    Peter, what you describe above is heavy governmental regulation of the economy and interferance in the markets. It’s the very antithesis of neoliberalism.

  42. Peter,

    Socialist Greece could have said no. It would have bankrupted them financially but they could have said no. What you are saying is that the Greeks should have been allowed to continue their recklessness and that the EU should have picked up the tab anyway.

  43. “Our sovereignty doesn’t, but the ROI has interfered severely with the UK.”

    Notice you changed it from Ireland to the Republic of Ireland. Brexit shouldn’t interfere whatsoever with Ireland, the entire country, not just the south. It should not allow for a hardening of the border in anyway. If you want to commit economic suicide you should be allowed to do so. You just shouldn’t be allowed to drag us down with you.

  44. No Paul, what I described was classical Hayek, the father of neoliberalism.

  45. Yes Peter. Government regulation of the economy and involvement in the markets is the essence of neoliberalism.

  46. Seamus

    Greece elected a socialist government which was then shamelessly undermined and bullied by the oh so virtuous EU. It was basically a coup d’etat.

    Obviously you haven’t read the Varoufakis book “Adults in the Room”. I suggest that you shouldn’t because you obviously prefer your EU groupie comfort zone and it would be seriously challenged by that book. This applies to a few others hereabouts who seem to see the EU as a paragon of undiluted virtue.

  47. Paul

    Please explain how EU rules against state aid and government deficits amounts to “regulation of the economy”. This sounds like Bizarro World to me but maybe I’m missing something.

  48. “Greece elected a socialist government which was then shamelessly undermined and bullied by the oh so virtuous EU. It was basically a coup d’etat.”

    It wasn’t. Greece could have said no. It is simple as that. They were offered a bailout. The bailout had terms attached to it. They could have rejected it, left the EU and Eurozone and defaulted. That was their options. They choose not to do that.

    That isn’t bullying. That is realism.

    Greece needed a bailout. Do you expect the EU to provide it to them without reigning in what they felt was the cause for Greece needing a bailout in the first place?

    “Obviously you haven’t read the Varoufakis book “Adults in the Room”. I suggest that you shouldn’t because you obviously prefer your EU groupie comfort zone and it would be seriously challenged by that book. This applies to a few others hereabouts who seem to see the EU as a paragon of undiluted virtue.”

    Well fuck you too.

  49. Cheers Seamus, you win.

  50. You are the one who decided to be a dick about things.

    You still haven’t answered my question. What do you think the EU should have done?

  51. Please explain how EU rules against state aid and government deficits amounts to “regulation of the economy”.

    Peter, let me explain.

    More than once you’ve cited that book on Greece. If the EU restructuring the economy of Greece in the wake of its collapse isn’t absolutely the opposite of neoliberalism then I’m afraid you don’t understand what it is. You and others here have spoken about an alleged harmonising of taxation across the EU, another example of governmental economic and market influence.

    I’m afraid Living Marxism can’t have it both ways, decrying the EU for interferance in national economies and then trying to portray it as neoliberal.

  52. As an example of the media bias, and just how rancid the reporters are……

    Mark Braithwaite
    Published on 29 Mar 2019
    Jon Snow on @Channel4News as a group of brexiteers assemble outside Downing Street.

    “I’ve never seen so many white people in one place.”

    Just labeled 17.4 million people as racist/xenophobic. The tosser needs sacking.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=32&v=xECQZGBCRWg

    L. van Vliet
    L. van Vliet
    How diversity brainwashed do you have to be to find it remarkable to encounter a group of people of a similar ethnic background as yourself in their home country? Who does Mr Snow think is on the other side of the TV screen watching his broadcast? Would he like to see a limit put on the number of white people allowed to congregate in public places?

    Elaine Wilkes
    Go to Small Heath in Birmingham…you wont see Any!!!
    3 hours ago

  53. And from tonight onward, for the first time in a thousand years, we know that laws will be imposed by force and not consent. They are not legitimate and have no moral or ethical force. Anyone disobeying EU-imposed laws will have right on their side.

    (Aha, I’ve worked out how to do the blockquote thing! Typical Leaver of course, all this html malarkey is beyond me, I still convert all my bills to shillings and pence, and listen to Deanna Durbin on the wireless…sorry, radio, sorry, mp3 thingy. Don’t worry remainers, I’ll soon be dead and you will just love your EU-socialist utopia).

    well said, P Moore. As I said yesterday, their foreign laws have no legitimacy here, and now that “Parliament” (ha!) has told us all that they won’t obey our clear instruction despite promising that they would do so, therefore we are totally within our rights to disobey their laws too.

  54. If the EU restructuring the economy of Greece in the wake of its collapse isn’t absolutely the opposite of neoliberalism then I’m afraid you don’t understand what it is.

    Paul

    You just don’t get it. The “restructuring” was the demolition of an elected socialist government programme and the imposition of savage austerity in the interests of unelected EU bankers and the neoliberal demand for balanced budgets. Unless you are saying that the Syriza government was neolioberal?

    This is exactly what was imposed on Chile when Allende was overthrown. But at least Greece was spared the mass-murders.

    Read the Varoufakis book.

  55. You are the one who decided to be a dick about things.

    You are the one who descended to swearing Seamus. I can’t be bothered to debate with you after that.

  56. You were the one who decided to start playing the man, not the ball.

  57. I get it perfectly Peter. It’s late so forgive me if I summarise without detail.

    Greece was recklessly playing with economics, one of the lowest retirement ages in Europe etc, and the shit hit the fan. It needed to be bailed out and that bail out came with a cost.

    Neoliberals would have let the place sink and move on to the next deregulated non economic intervention paradise. Living Marxism is incorrectly bandying buzzwords around.

  58. I really don’t get the Varoufakis love-in.

    He was an incompetent who overpromised then ran for the hills when the hard decisions needed to be taken.

    But then, I haven’t read his book…

  59. Peter seems to be suggesting the Greeks should have been able to have their massive bailout from the rest of the EU and the bankers but without any conditions on those loans or obligations to restrict their profligate socialist policies. Have your cake and eat it.

  60. //Varoufakis ….was an incompetent who overpromised then ran for the hills when the hard decisions needed to be taken.

    But then, I haven’t read his book…//

    🙂

  61. Greece voted for free EU money. And according to Peter it would be undemocratic for them not to get it. I imagine he also finds it undemocratic for Mexico to not fund The Donald’s wall. After all The Donald won an election on the issue. Greece voted to allow themselves free access to Europe’s pockets. It would be undemocratic not to let them.

    Despite Peter’s silly insinuation of the contrary I have actually read Yanis Varoufakis book. Its an enjoyable read, well written, and paints a particular, dare I say self serving, picture. Everyone is either corrupt, weak or beholden to the elites. Everyone except Yanis Varoufakis that is. Even the people who disagree with him, his opponents, secretly agree with him. He’s clearly right, they just can’t admit it in public. They just publicly oppose him because they are corrupt, weak or beholden to the elites. Everything that goes wrong is because of the machinations of his opponents, the treachery of someone close of Varoufakis, or the incompetence of someone not named Yanis Varoufakis.

  62. Beware of Greeks writing books.. 🙂

  63. Are we out yet?

    https://diversitymachtfrei.wordpress.com/2019/03/29/on-brexit-betrayal-day-ive-never-seen-so-many-white-people-in-one-place/

    On the day the Brit ruling class openly moved to suppress democracy in favour of Diversity, as the Labour party voted against its own declared policy to stop Brexit happening, one leftist newsreader was left aghast at the indignant reaction of the filthy plebs protesting against this outrage: “I’ve never seen so many white people in one place.”

    Jon Snow may well be unused to the sight of white people, working as he does in Londonistan with his wife and jungle joy Precious Lunga, who hails from the dark continent of Africa, more specifically Zimbabwe, from which all but the few last remnants of the white race have been well and truly chased.

    Snow and Precious are no doubt looking forward to the same demographic apocalypse playing out in Britain.

    Meanwhile, jews are already prepping the plebs about a Brexit stab-in-the-back as being a ‘myth’ because, being treacherous jews, they are always concerned about being found out……

    Jonathan Freedland – The Guardian
    The outlines of the myth are already in place. Its victim is a noble people who voted as one on a summer’s day in 2016 for a simple, clear desire – leave – but who were thwarted by feckless and self-serving MPs, by the political class, by the liberal elite, by the BBC, by the universities, by Brussels bureaucrats, by the corporations, by the Germans, by the hidden forces of darkness who together conspired against the hardworking men and women of this country.

    That’s the stab-in-the-back myth that will be fostered and lovingly nurtured, like all grievances. It will spread and mutate and poison our politic for many years to come. So it’s vital to do what can be done now to tackle it, to prevent it taking root and becoming immovable.

    If some crazed countersemitic conspiracy theorist was minded to construct a stab-in-the-back myth involving Jews and Brexit, well let’s just say there would be plenty of raw material to work with. I would imagine little John Berkowitz, all 5′ 6″ of him, would loom, if not large, at least loud in the storyline, invoking centuries-old precedents here, disregarding other precedents that didn’t suit his purposes there, and generally using all of his dark dwarven powers, by hook and by crook, to help the Remainiacs do their evil work.

    Then there’s Olly Letwin who hijacked parliament to stop the government getting its business through.

    And Dominic Grieve who led the manic push for a second referendum, encouraged behind the scenes by tribe member Soros.

    Yes, indeed, if I was minded to construct an antisemitic stab-in-the-back myth around Brexit, I don’t think my imaginative faculties would need to engage for very long, if at all.

    I have almost an admiration for a jew like Freedland who can state what is happening exactly as it is happening and then have the chutzpah to write that it is a myth – they are an amazingly mendacious people, but it works………

  64. I’ve never seen so many white people in one place.”

    Apart from when he attended the Anti-Brexit protest, and Glastonbury.

  65. Peter seems to be suggesting the Greeks should have been able to have their massive bailout from the rest of the EU and the bankers but without any conditions on those loans or obligations to restrict their profligate socialist policies. Have your cake and eat it.

    No Colm

    Firstly, it wasn’t Greece that was bailed out, it was the French and German banks which had their loans repaid by the ECB and IMF. What should have happened is that those debts should have been written off by at least 33%. Instead, the debt burden was merely switched to new creditors at the price of savage austerity caused by the neoliberal imposition of a balanced budget. The Greek economy contracted by over 20% between 2010 and 2015 and mass-unemployment, mass-emigration and absolute poverty among many was the totally predictable result.

    It is true that Greece could have refused the new loans and defaulted on the old loans and left both the Euro and the EU. But the short-term economic dislocation woud have been massive and it was not clear that Syriza had a mandate to impose it, even after the referendum which rejected the bailout terms. In the event, Tsipras caved in and Varoufakis resigned rather than impose fresh austerity.

    A generation of Greeks has been thrown on the scrapheap in the cause of the Euro and the Federal Project.

  66. //I have actually read Yanis Varoufakis book. Its an enjoyable read, well written, and paints a particular, dare I say self serving, picture. Everyone is either corrupt, weak or beholden to the elites. Everyone except Yanis Varoufakis that is. Even the people who disagree with him, his opponents, secretly agree with him. He’s clearly right, they just can’t admit it in public. They just publicly oppose him because they are corrupt, weak or beholden to the elites. Everything that goes wrong is because of the machinations of his opponents, //

    I can well imagine. You even get that impression just from listening to him speak.

    Things are on the mend in Greece, and its output is set to improve further if the world economy remains stable. You must remember that the Greek economy was a completely artificial construct up to the collapse. In just years 7 years up to 2008, its GDP increased threefold! All due to the simple government policy of spend, spend, spend.
    Spending other people’s money, of course. It should have been Beware of the Greeks Receiving Gifts, as that was what they were getting from the govt for years. Meanwhile,the state more or less forgot to collect taxes.

  67. Succinct and correct summary Noel.

    Prior to collapse Greece’s budget deficit exceeded 15% of its GDP with pension payments absorbing 17.5% of it.

    Greece was blindly reckless with its economy and apprantley should have been given free money to plug the deficit.

  68. Greece was blindly reckless with its economy and apprantley should have been given free money to plug the deficit.

    No Paul

    The Greek government was no more reckless than the French and German banks which lent to it. They should have paid a price for their greed, but they got off scot free with bailouts from the IMF and ECB at the expense of the Greeks who were burdened with massive austerity.

  69. You must remember that the Greek economy was a completely artificial construct up to the collapse. In just years 7 years up to 2008, its GDP increased threefold!

    No Noel:

    GDP 2001 $198 billion
    GDP 2008 $250 billion

    That’s an increase of $52 billion which amounts to 26%, not 300%. The figure for 2016 was $185 billion, which represents a contraction of 26% on 2008 and 7% on 2001. For comparison, the UK economy contracted by 4% in 2009 and recovered to 2% growth by 2011.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Greece#Data

  70. It’s German and French banks’ fault that the Greek government was wildly imprudent in their spending?

    What should the EU have done Peter? Let Greece slide into absloute ruin?

  71. Firstly the banks should not have lent to Greece on anything like the scale that they did. Of course the reason they did so was the assumption that they would get their money back whatever happened, because the Euro could not afford to let a member default on its debts, it would have risked the currency’s survival. In this assumption they were proved correct.

    The EU should nevertheless have imposed a haircut on the debts of at least 25% in order to reduce them to a sustainable proportion of Greek GDP. The burden of this haircut could have been shared between the banks abd the sovereign governments. It is widely accepted that if sovereign debt exceeds 125% of GDP the burden will have to be reduced. Greece is at 183%. Everyone knows that not all of that debt will be repaid but the EU prefers the game of “extend and pretend”.

    https://data.oecd.org/gga/general-government-debt.htm

  72. It’s German and French banks’ fault that the Greek government was wildly imprudent in their spending?

    No, but it’s their fault – and should be loss – for lending to a Greek government that was wildly imprudent in its spending. But thanks to the EU, big European banks, with the EU in their pockets, can socialise their losses onto low wage European shelf stackers.

    Up the workers!

  73. It is widely accepted that if sovereign debt exceeds 125% of GDP the burden will have to be reduced.

    Is it? Not according to this from 2012 it’s not:

    https://www.ft.com/content/cadb186f-81ea-335d-a871-d45114ea1d8a

    Getting back to the original point, what you have described above, the EU bailing out Greece, is a perfect example of how LM’s claim that the EU is a’neoliberal empire of 28 highly heterogeneous states’ is absolute stones.

  74. Peter, according to info I’ve seen the per-capita GDP in Greece was just about 12.4 K USD at the start of the century and had risen to almost 32.5 by 2008.

  75. Noel

    I assume that you checked my link at 8.53pm? If you have a better source I would love to see it.

  76. the EU bailing out Greece, is a perfect example of how LM’s claim that the EU is a’neoliberal empire of 28 highly heterogeneous states’ is absolute stones.

    Paul

    As I have already pointed out, the EU did not bail out Greece. It bailed out the banks that had imprudently lent to Greece. A bail-out to Greece would have meant writing off a chunk of its debts and that did not happen. Instead, a neoliberal balanced budget was the price of transferring Greek debt from the banks to the IMF and ECB.

    The Euro is the Deutchmark-lite. As such, its DNA is deflationary and this has been the experience of most of its members since it launched in 1999. The “German core” have remained competitive with Germany, but the rest have not. Italy’s unemployment rate has remained at 11% since 1999 and youth unemployment is much higher. Before the Euro, Italy remained competitive by devaluing the Lira, but that option is not available and the only solution is “internal devaluation”, i.e. falling wages and high unemployment. That is what has given the right-wing populists significant traction although so far they have stopped short of returning to the Lira.

  77. The EU paid Greece’s debt. As said above,

    yeah, Government regulation of the economy and involvement in the markets is the essence of neoliberalism. Neoliberals would have bid Greece farewell and moved on onto the next unregulated Free Market paradise.

  78. The EU paid Greece’s debt.

    No Paul, the EU left Greece with exactly the same debts, just owed to different creditors. Think of one mafia don transferring your debt to another mafia don. That’s what happened to Greece in 2015.

  79. The most efficient way to accomplish Brexit is for the UK to agree to a border in the Irish Sea. I think the vast majority of the UK would be fine with that. The DUP represents a tiny percentage of the UK population, and the the DUP has proven they can be bought. So, pay them to shut-up and get on with it, if you want Brexit.

  80. “No Paul, the EU left Greece with exactly the same debts, just owed to different creditors.”

    And? It was Greece’s debt. They spent the money. Just because the EU shifted the liabilities for that debt from private banks doesn’t change the fact that it was Greece’s debt.

  81. New Yorker

    That proposal would almost certainly have happened if May hadn’t lost her majority in the unnecessary General Election she called in 2017. If the DUP weren’t propping Up the govt. the backstop wouldn’t even be an issue. It would have been a done deal.

  82. Before each vote on May’s Deal, the PM has stressed to MPs that THIS is their LAST chance (to avoid destroying Brexit or to avoid a no-deal Brexit, depending on who she’s trying to cajole). You couldn’t count the number of times she said “LAST chance” before the vote on Friday, warning of “grave consequences” if it were rejected.

    Then the very next day after it was rejected, she indicates she will try for a 4th vote, and has thus decided that it wasn’t the last chance after all, and the most grave consequences MPs have to fear is having to listen to her speeches again.

    It’s almost painful to watch her and you can’t help pity her. I honestly can’t see her lasting long (I mean as a person, not as PM) once this is all over.

    You’d think that, in view of how the 2 main parties are making such fools of themselves, the parties on the fringes that equivocally support either Brexit (UKIP) or Remain (Lib Dems) would be making hay, but polls show that they are still languishing in single.digit figures.

    A new general election is definitely the best idea, in which each candidate can, but doesn’t have to, declare as a Remainer or a Leaver. That would at least clear the air.
    But the British electorate is so “conservative” maybe nothing would change.

    Tomorrow Parliament has a chance to find a way. But tomorrow’s also April 1st.

  83. Colm

    I think the DUP have 10 MPs. If May were to change and now propose a border in the Irish Sea, would it be possible for May to pick up 10 MPs from Labour and other parties?

    I’m for Remain, but if they really wanted to get it done the Irish Sea border is acceptable to the EU, it would be efficent and meet the imminent deadline.

  84. That sounds like a creative solution that might work to the economic advantage of the Northern Ireland economy

    The NI —economy —as I understand it would then be in the E.U. for all practical purposes, but British citizens from NI would not be “ EU citizens “ and there would be no European Parliament representationin in NI?

  85. New Yorker

    May could pass such a deal with some Labour support but the trouble is the DUP would quit their supply and confidence arrangement with the government which would cause May to lose her administrations majority. That’s the only reason why the DUP are listened to.

  86. I’m for Remain, but if they really wanted to get it done the Irish Sea border is acceptable to the EU, it would be efficent and meet the imminent deadline.

    It would also probably be of sizeable economic benefit to the economy of the state and, ironically, arguably cement its status within the UK.

  87. The major international employers there would I think be all for it

  88. Colm, if and when the time comes when it’s conveniant the DUP and NI state will absolutely be thrown under the bus.

    From what I’m anecdotally hearing from back home the DUP are going to suffer electorally for the way they’ve played the Brexit game.

  89. Paul

    If N.I. Is required by any deal to stay in the single market I would regard that as an act of being kept on the bus with the rest of the U.K. being thrown off it and waiting for a magic better bus that ain’t coming 😉

  90. As I have posted numerous times since the referendum, the obvious compromise is to leave the Single Market and remain in the Customs Union. And it’s looks like that is now on the cards, at last:

    “It would not be “sustainable” to ignore MPs if they vote for a softer Brexit, Justice Secretary David Gauke has said. On Monday, Parliament will hold an indicative vote on Brexit alternatives. A customs union with the EU is thought to be the most likely preference.”

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47765706

  91. Peter

    Yes but 170 Tory MPs have signed a letter opposing that completely. Theresa is in a position now of being damned if she does, damned if she doesn’t and damned if she procrastinates 😉

  92. IT IS QUEEN O’CLOCK, MY BITCHES!

    Theresa May is being advised by constitutional legal experts that she can ask Queen Elizabeth to refuse to grant royal assent to (soft) Brexit legislation put forward by Parliament.

    Via The Times.

  93. And constitutionally Her Majesty can tell the soon to be gone PM to “ Do one “ *

    * ( British polite slang for go F*** yourself Theresa ) 😱

  94. This is a great read as to why there can never be a hard border in Ireland again :

    https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/we-cannot-go-back-to-a-hard-border-any-more-than-berlin-could-return-to-the-wall-1.3843094?mode=amp

  95. A Customs Union without the Single Market would still require a backstop (or a situation were Britain leaves the Single Market but Northern Ireland remains in the Single Market).

  96. As I have posted numerous times since the referendum, the obvious compromise is to leave the Single Market and remain in the Customs Union.

    Only if you’ve gone insane. It would leave the entirety of our trade policy in the hands of the EU, and we won’t have a say in it. The Maltese Commissioner would have more influence than the Prime Minister over our trade policy.

    And what is this “compromise” talk? What compromises have we had since 1972? None. What compromises would Parliament have offered if Remain had won? None.

    There is only one compromise, and that is for losers to accept that they lost.

  97. Wonderful news…

    The latest manufacturing PMI figures are out and it’s more grim reading for Merkel and Macron with the Eurozone’s index falling to 47.5 in March – firmly in contraction territory and the lowest level since April 2013. Germany is rapidly becoming the sick man of Europe, its reading of 44.1 is the worst since the crisis days of 2012…

    Meanwhile the UK’s own manufacturing index has surged to a 14-month high of 55.1, coming in far ahead of the forecast of 51.2. The UK could even consider giving the EU a trade deal, if they ask nicely…

    https://order-order.com/2019/04/01/uk-manufacturing-growth-smashes-expectations-eurozone-worst-6-years/

    By the way, when I read recently of riots in France, I initially thought, uh oh, Brussels have finally released their expenses.

  98. There is only one compromise, and that is for losers to accept that they lost.

    Imaging if you will for one moment, if remain had won, and Parliament overturned that decision?.

  99. Only if you’ve gone insane. It would leave the entirety of our trade policy in the hands of the EU, and we won’t have a say in it.

    Didn’t you once promote staying in the SM, the CU and the EEA? what happened to the ‘entirety of or trade policy’ there?

    Anyhow, as we’re on trade policy:

    German industry has repeatedly said, since last week, that the single UK market is to stay open for business. Berlin will comply, therefore the EU will comply. The UK is the single largest market for EU exports. It will remain that way. It is non-negotiable while everything else is on the table.

    Our position is very strong.

    We know that the two-year clock starts ticking when Article 50 is triggered. We do that and wait for them to agree to our terms. As the clock counts down they will become more panicky. German industry will get heavy on Berlin. In the end we get our way.

    If President Trump backs us up, by the time we finish Brussels will be paying for the wall

    Who said that in July 2016? Whoever said it it was a spectacularly accurate prediction wasn’t it?