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poof goes Persia

By Patrick Van Roy On May 17th, 2019

Is it time yet? 

The Iranians have deployed cruise missiles on their ships in the Gulf. Cruise Missiles with Russian and French guidance systems. We have intel from an ally in the region that they were planing a strike on one of our Aircraft Carriers.

The Sanctions on Iran are having a Heavy Toll, and we’ve just added more. We have also started Sanctions on their supplier nations.

We have added to our Armada. There is more American Firepower in the region as we speak than we had at the Battle of Midway. Yet this is no Gulf of Tonkin or any “False Flag” operation. This is a setup up for an overwhelming force response.

Not one shot will be fired without us being fired on first.

Things are escalating, Iran has ordered all Islamic groups in the ME to prepare for all out war. They are firing barrages of missiles into both Saudi Arabia and Israel.  Now we wait and see if they are stupid enough to fire their cruise missiles.

 

I send this to the Mad Mullahs of Persia…..  We’re Here!

 

135 Responses to “poof goes Persia”

  1. We have intel from an ally in the region that they were planing a strike on one of our Aircraft Carriers.

    And we know that Bibi is a man of utmost integrity. For example, he would never try to engineer a US attack on Iran just because he has been gagging for that for a decade.

  2. We have intel from an ally in the region that they were planing a strike on one of our Aircraft Carriers.

    Which ‘ally?’

    They are firing barrages of missiles into both Saudi Arabia and Israel

    Hamas have occasionally fired rockets into Israel for the last twenty years. When did Iran shell Saudi Arabia?

  3. Iran’s rulers might be bad but they’re not suicidal. They will not attack the American fleet.

  4. When did Iran shell Saudi Arabia?

    Every shot from Yemen

  5. 450 rockets fired from Gaza in less than 24 hours into Israel ten days ago.

  6. Every shot from Yemen

    So Iran haven’t in fact shelled SA but Houthi rebels being bombed from the air in Yemen by SA pilots is ‘Iran shelling Saudi Arabia?’

    Really Pat, where do you get these from?

  7. Bolton and Bibi are determined to push Trump into attacking Iran. It’s that simple.

  8. so the Houthis haven’t shot Iranian missiles into Sa?

    https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/25/middleeast/saudi-arabia-intercepts-missile/index.html

  9. It’s neither Bolton nor Bibi’s fault that Iran is a threat to the whole world nor is it their fault that we will be the only ones to do anything about it.

    Iran is run by a death cult that believes they can bring on the Muslim Messiah by bathing the world in non-muslim blood.

  10. Iran is a threat to the whole world

    Really? It is certainly a threat to US allies Saudi Arabia and Israel. But that does not make it a threat to the US itself. And it is clearly not a threat to Europe, Russia, China, India or Australia. It has abided by the nuclear deal to the letter.

  11. Iran is run by a death cult that believes they can bring on the Muslim Messiah by bathing the world in non-muslim blood.

    No, you are mixing them up with the Wahabi fundamentalists of US ally Saudi Arabia. You know, the guys who brought you 9-11.

  12. Iran is run by a death cult that believes they can bring on the Muslim Messiah by bathing the world in non-muslim blood

    I’ve heard you repeat that claim a few times now Pat. Where did you get it from?

  13. Really? It is certainly a threat to US allies Saudi Arabia and Israel. But that does not make it a threat to the US itself. And it is clearly not a threat to Europe, Russia, China, India or Australia. It has abided by the nuclear deal to the letter.

    Really are the people in those countries Muslim?

    If not they are the declared enemy of Iran and Iran’s missiles can reach every country you name. No the repeated Goal stated by the Mad Mullahs is to bring back the 12th Imam and to do so the world must first be bathed in the blood of the infidel.

    Now a country with ballistic missiles that is racing to develop nuclear warheads for them is not viewed as a threat by you well that might just explain why your country is useless when it comes to war or even defending yourselves.

  14. Twelver eschatology is quite ingrained in Iran (eschatology itself, and the idea of a apocalyptic end of days, is itself originally an Iranian idea that then spread from Zoroastrian Iran into most of the Abrahamic religions).

    However Patrick gets his ideas wrong. The Twelver eschatology is not that the Mahdi will appear by bathing the world in non-Muslim blood. Quite the opposite. Twelvers believe that the Mahdi will return at a time when there is major conflict in the Islamic world, specifically Iraq and Syria. So when the US invaded Iraq in 2003 Twelver eschatology went into hyperdrive.

    And here is the danger of any US invasion. Twelvers believe that the Mahdi will appear in Iran during this great upheaval in the Islamic world. And the agents of evil will try to kill him to prevent the victory of God. As such they will defend him to the last man.

    Any US invasion of Iran, especially at the behest of the dajjal (an Islamic version of the anti-Christ who is believed to be Jewish) of Israel or the false prophets of Saudi Arabia, will be interpreted as an attempt by the forces of evil to kill the Mahdi. That is how it will be interpreted in Iran, not just by the religious leaders but by a great proportion of the Iranian population.

  15. no I’m not always right, but I’m never wrong.

    According to the traditions of Twelver Shi’ism, the official religion of the Islamic Republic of Iran, the twelfth of these Imams, a boy of five years old, disappeared under mysterious and disputed circumstances in the year 874 – but remained alive. After his disappearance, he communicated to the world through four agents, the last of whom died in 941. At that point the Twelfth Imam went silent, entering the period of “Great Occultation.”

    In his last communiqué to the world, via one of these messengers in 941, this mysterious figure consoled his followers with prophecies regarding his eventual reappearance. The circumstances of that reappearance could, in the hands of Iran’s mad mullahs, visit upon the world calamities of a scale never before seen. And Israel and America will bear the brunt.

    “Hearts,” warned Mohammad al-Mahdi, the Twelfth Imam, in his last message, “will become inaccessible to compassion. The earth will be filled with tyranny and violence.” He was speaking of the time of his reappearance, explaining that he would only come back to the world when the evil that Muslims were suffering was at its absolute apex. In this he echoed a Shi’ite tradition of the words of the prophet of Islam himself, Muhammad, who prophesied that the Twelfth Imam would be “the Resurrector” and explained: “He will fill the world with peace and justice as today it is filled with violence and tyranny.”

    That violence and tyranny is not incidental to the theology of the Twelfth Imam, which has revenge as its core and essence. The Shi’ites began to teach that the Twelfth Imam would return at a time when the Muslims were oppressed as never before, and suffering worse than ever. The Imam, in the company of Jesus (re-imagined, as in Sunni Islam, as a Muslim prophet), would finally end the horrific persecution of the true believers, taking up arms against their enemies and conquering and Islamizing the world. This eschatological revenge fantasy would be of no concern to anyone but pious Shi’ites and religious anthropologists were it not for the element of Shi’ite tradition that requires that the earth be “filled with tyranny and violence” before the Twelfth Imam can return.

    There is no requirement that non-Muslims must be responsible for that violence; Shi’ites filled with religious fervor, like the Ayatollah Khamenei and the mullahs behind him, could hasten the Twelfth Imam’s return and the consummation of all things by, say, launching a nuclear strike against Tel Aviv or some other Infidel outpost, knowing that by doing so they would almost certainly be provoking a retaliatory strike that would subject the Muslims in Iran to more defeat and repression than even the Shi’ites had previously suffered. That would be enough to bring the Twelfth Imam out of the well where he is said to be hiding.

    But that is a matter of religious hope and speculation; the devastation that would supposedly lead to his reappearance, however, would be all too real. The two powers that the Iranian mullahs have long designated as the “Great Satan” and the “Little Satan” – America and Israel – would be the only targets of an Iranian attempt to hasten the Twelfth Imam’s coming.

    A nuclear strike from Tehran into Israel could kill, estimates say, upwards of twenty million people, completely destroying the Jewish State.

  16. and I repeat

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daLrnOIZOBE

  17. Gosh, isn’t sky-god religion just the greatest thing ever invented by human imagination?

    In the 21’st century it still has the power to kill millions and threaten world destruction. If WW3 breaks out it will be because of religion. That must be a comforting thought to the sky-god god believers. End of days, final judgement and all that.

  18. Moe was no sky god…. he was a blood thirsty pedophile

  19. here ya go Peter

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXSkusmG44E

  20. Iran is not about to fire on a US Aircraft carrier.

    Peter – your atheist stars Pol Pot, Stalin and Mao killed a fair amount of folks, or haven’t you heard?

  21. it would be rather stupid if they do fire….. but it might be the will of Allah!

  22. “This eschatological revenge fantasy would be of no concern to anyone but pious Shi’ites and religious anthropologists were it not for the element of Shi’ite tradition that requires that the earth be “filled with tyranny and violence” before the Twelfth Imam can return.

    There is no requirement that non-Muslims must be responsible for that violence; Shi’ites filled with religious fervor, like the Ayatollah Khamenei and the mullahs behind him, could hasten the Twelfth Imam’s return and the consummation of all things by, say, launching a nuclear strike against Tel Aviv or some other Infidel outpost, knowing that by doing so they would almost certainly be provoking a retaliatory strike that would subject the Muslims in Iran to more defeat and repression than even the Shi’ites had previously suffered. That would be enough to bring the Twelfth Imam out of the well where he is said to be hiding.”

    Other than the fact that the violence as described would be located in Iraq and Syria, not outside of it.

    “In the 21’st century it still has the power to kill millions and threaten world destruction. If WW3 breaks out it will be because of religion. That must be a comforting thought to the sky-god god believers. End of days, final judgement and all that.”

    If World War 3 breaks out it will most likely be a conflict between the largely secular West and atheist countries like China. Not everything is religion’s fault. If everyone was an atheist humanity would still find other reasons to kill each other.

  23. And to be fair Patrick, Robert Spencer and Jihad Watch are not exactly unbiased sources when it comes to Islamic traditions and beliefs.

  24. No Seamus……

    China… Russia… they understand the American philosophy. Russia more than China. If we are all going to die, we’re going to take everyone with us.

    MAD works.

    And no one can touch us still in conventional warfare.

  25. my piece came from a very objective website…….

    https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm

  26. “my piece came from a very objective website…….”

    Written by Robert Spencer, the operator of Jihad Watch.

    “China… Russia… they understand the American philosophy. Russia more than China. If we are all going to die, we’re going to take everyone with us.”

    Captain Edmund Blackadder: You see, Baldrick, in order to prevent war in Europe, two superblocs developed: us, the French and the Russians on one side, and the Germans and Austro-Hungary on the other. The idea was to have two vast opposing armies, each acting as the other’s deterrent. That way there could never be a war.

    Private S. Baldrick: But this is a sort of a war, isn’t it, sir?

    Captain Edmund Blackadder: Yes, that’s right. You see, there was a tiny flaw in the plan.

    Lieutenant George St Barleigh: What was that, sir?

    Captain Edmund Blackadder: It was bollocks.

  27. Troll, Trump and Bolton are still obsessed with 1979.

    It was a defining moment of youth for these sad, elderly men. Perversely they prefer to live in the past, rather than deal with the present reality.

    They’re still tying yellow ribbons on old oak trees.

    Now they see an opportunity to soak its roots with blood.

  28. Frontpage is a Horowitz run far right wing rag. It’s full of inflammatory lies and utter fear mongering bullshit.

    No wonder your commentary is so uninformed.

  29. now that’s the reaction I wanted when I posted the link. Thank you Daphne.

    Horowitz is nuts but if you knew his life story you’d understand why.

    I recommend this book before you pass judgement on the man. He was raised by radical leftists in the heart of the 60s and events brought him to both the right and his general frame of mind.
    https://www.amazon.com/Radical-Son-Generational-David-Horowitz/dp/0684840057/ref=sr_1_fkmrnull_1?crid=DPJVZOA12P08&keywords=radical+son+david+horowitz&qid=1558139303&s=gateway&sprefix=radical+so%2Caps%2C144&sr=8-1-fkmrnull

  30. Daphne, on May 18th, 2019 at 12:09 AM Said: Edit Comment
    Troll, Trump and Bolton are still obsessed with 1979.

    It was a defining moment of youth for these sad, elderly men. Perversely they prefer to live in the past, rather than deal with the present reality.

    1979 was one of the best years in my History. I was 18, I was making money hand over fist I had a supped up camaro and a Cadi Eldorado and was living with the prom queen.

    As for now I am the most blessed man in the world. I have a wife that loves me and two very special daughters starting their own lives in the world who also love me. I’m the richest man alive.

  31. Patrick Van Roy,

    Moe was no sky god…. he was a blood thirsty pedophile

    But nowhere near as bloodthirsty as the god of the old testament.

  32. Patrick Van Roy,

    Moe was no sky god…. he was a blood thirsty pedophile

    But nowhere near as bloodthirsty as the god of the old testament.

  33. The old testament is the Torah Christ reformed the religion.

    This is not a religious War to anyone except the Islamists.

  34. on this post cheering the possibility of War a war we don’t want, but eventually the Persians will have to be put down. It’s just a matter of time.

    I would like to add a ray of hope for humanity. In 5 years we go back to where we should have never stopped going and this time is the set up for colonization…. The Moon.

    After the Moon, people on Mars by 2033…or 2060

    Washington (AFP) – On December 11, 2017, US President Donald Trump signed a directive ordering NASA to prepare to return astronauts to the Moon “followed by human missions to Mars and other destinations.”

    The dates fixed by the space agency are 2024 for the Moon and Mars in 2033, but according to experts and industry insiders, reaching the Red Planet by then is highly improbable barring a Herculean effort on the scale of the Apollo program in the 1960s.

    “The Moon is the proving ground for our eventual mission to Mars,” NASA administrator Jim Bridenstine said at a conference this week.

  35. In an op-ed for the Wall Street Journal, written two months ago, Bolton condemned the 2015 nuclear deal with Iran as a “massive strategic blunder”—then went further. American policy, he wrote, “should be ending Iran’s 1979 Islamic Revolution before its fortieth anniversary,” next February. “Recognizing a new Iranian regime in 2019 would reverse the shame of once seeing our diplomats held hostage for four hundred and forty-four days. The former hostages can cut the ribbon to open the new U.S. Embassy in Tehran.”

    ( New Yorker, March 2018 )

    Daphne above is spot on correct.

    I wish nothing good for the Iranian government, but I don’t want our military bled in order to get revenge for Iran’s actions in 1979

  36. Jesus was no sky God he was an alcoholic homosexual… atleast judging by the fairy tales

  37. Iran’s actions in 1979

    A war against Iran for the percieved humiliation of a hostage crisis forty years ago? Absolute insanity. A war with Iran would be catastrophic for everyone involved, including the US. Iran would be Iraq amplified 100 times with the possibility of pulling bit Russia and China into the mix.

    If lots of stars and bars draped coffins going back to the US is what you want then great. No European country or military should have anything whatsoever to do with such a mess.

    This is a decent read Phantom:

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/may/18/united-states-iran-fears-of-war

  38. Draping coffins with the stars and bars may be a tad controversial. But then Trump has allied with the likes of them so who knows I guess.

    In reality a war with Iran could wind up being the death knell for NATO. As it would be purely a war of American aggression NATO’s charter doesn’t apply. And it is unlikely that the majority of NATO countries will follow into America’s folly on the matter. Trump, similar to Bush with the French and Iraq, will take it as a personal attack and will use it as a pretense to have another pop at NATO.

  39. Iran’s actions in 79 were just the beginning. Iran is the head of the Terrorist Snake, Saudi Arabia may be it’s Bank but the War with the Islamists is headquartered and Run from Iran.

    They organize, supply weapons, cash and targets to both Sunni and Shia. They have ballistic missiles that they are developing Nuclear Warheads for, they are a threat to everyone.

  40. A war of aggression by the United States.

    That’s what you call defending against the worlds most dangerous terrorist state that has actively been attacking people all over the world since 1979.

    and you have the balls to say purely a war of American aggression.

    Are you Stoned or Stupid?

  41. ” Iran is the head of the Terrorist Snake, Saudi Arabia may be it’s Bank but the War with the Islamists is headquartered and Run from Iran.”

    You keep saying it. It simply isn’t true. The overwhelming majority of Islamic terrorists organisations hate Iran almost as much as the hate the United States and Israel. The US and Israel are infidels. Iran are heretics.

    “and you have the balls to say purely a war of American aggression.”

    Yes a war of American aggression. Iran’s threat to the world is relatively minor, and certainly would not require the level of response that you are itching for. Many of those things that you cite could be for example applied to Israel (Iran as far as I am aware have never commandeered Irish passports to murder someone – Israel have). Israel have attacked people in multiple different countries, probably as many as Iran have. Even more could probably be applied to the United States.

    Simply put negotiations and diplomacy are the way forward. Trump decided to withdraw from that tactic which means that any war resulting in that would be caused by American action. It will be a war of American aggression.

  42. Saudi Arabia may be it’s Bank but the War with the Islamists is headquartered and Run from Iran

    That’s simply not true. The overwhelming majority of Islamic terrorism, Al qeada, ISIS, is Sunni wahhabism who view Shia Islam as heretics.

    And besides, if you want to destroy Islamic terrorism why is it okay to have its financiers as your ‘allies?’

  43. bullshit on everything you just wrote Seamus.

    You can delude yourself about Iran a nuclear weapon threat to the world is relatively minor. Ok so then you won’t care if Dublin gets hit with one then.

    The Islamists fight among themselves, they always have and they always will…. but they truly live by the rule of my enemies enemy and everyone who is not a Muslim is both Sunni and Shias enemy.

    None of it applies to Israel. The fact that you compare Israel and the US to Iran is the perfect example of brainwashed conditioning. Your conditioning is wrong, where my conditioning is right.

  44. They are firing barrages of missiles into both Saudi Arabia and Israel.

    Does anybody remember the nationalities of those men that flew the hijacked aircraft into the Twin towers and the Pentagon ? I don’t think they were Iranians.

    If I was my decision, I’ll tell the Arabs, the Persians and the Jews to fight it out amongst themselves. God, whichever one, will back the eventual victor.

  45. “You can delude yourself about Iran a nuclear weapon threat to the world is relatively minor. Ok so then you won’t care if Dublin gets hit with one then.”

    A nuclear weapon threat that was being dealt with via negotiations and diplomacy before The Donald threw his teddy out of the pram.

    “None of it applies to Israel. The fact that you compare Israel and the US to Iran is the perfect example of brainwashed conditioning. Your conditioning is wrong, where my conditioning is right.”

    So Israel gets to attack whoever it wants without being an aggressive power?

    “The Islamists fight among themselves, they always have and they always will…. but they truly live by the rule of my enemies enemy and everyone who is not a Muslim is both Sunni and Shias enemy.”

    Nonsense. The sectarian hatreds within Islam far outweigh any animosity between Muslims and non-Muslims. Your allies (or at least your ally’s allies) in Al Qaeda, ISIS etc… hate Iran more than you do.

  46. And besides, if you want to destroy Islamic terrorism why is it okay to have its financiers as your ‘allies?’

    Because if we destroy SA all of Europe will freeze they supply you with ten percent of your supply disruption of that ten percent would be the EUs economic deathknell.

  47. “Because if we destroy SA all of Europe will freeze they supply you with ten percent of your supply disruption of that ten percent would be the EUs economic deathknell.”

    Saudi Arabia accounts for about 7.4% of Europe’s oil imports, and about 6.4% of its total oil use.

    Saudi Arabia accounts for about 11% of America’s oil imports, and about 2.6% of its total oil use.

  48. Because if we destroy SA all of Europe will freeze

    How very philanthropic of you. Don’t talk balls Pat.

    The EU imports less than 10% of it’s oil from SA, the US imports more. If SA were to be be embargoed the EU would import the missing 8-10% of it’s oil from other sources.

    Stop making excuses for colluding with terrorist promoters and finaciers.

    You can delude yourself about Iran a nuclear weapon threat to the world is relatively minor

    Taking Israel’s aggression, violent overkill and contempt for what the international community think I’d suggest Israel a bigger nuclear threat to the world than Iran.

  49. that deal guaranteed that in 9 years they would have a fully functional weapons program. It was a suicide pact.

    Nonsense. The sectarian hatreds within Islam far outweigh any animosity between Muslims and non-Muslims. Your allies (or at least your ally’s allies) in Al Qaeda, ISIS etc… hate Iran more than you do.

    History especially recent history prove that to not be true. Iran supplies both Sunni and Shia Arms, Cash, and Logistics.

    Shia Iran backing Sunni Taliban with cash – American Thinker
    http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2015/06/shia_iran_backing_sunni_taliban_with_cash...
    Jun 12, 2015 · Shia Iran backing Sunni Taliban with cash. … “Iran supplies us with whatever we need,” he said. … The split between Sunni and Shia Islam is important, but not always decisive. …

  50. The US sells more than we import. We are self sufficient….. are you?

  51. Libya supplies you with less than 3% and we killed Gaddafi because he was messing with British and EU Oil supplies.

  52. We are self sufficient….. are you?

    Yep, saw that one coming. No, we’re not. So?

    If you’re energy self sufficient why are you importing oil from Islamic terrorist promoters and financiers while supposesedly fighting a ‘war on terror?’

  53. “The US sells more than we import. We are self sufficient….. are you?”

    Are you going to prevent your own producers from exporting in order to plug the gap? Would such a move even be legal?

    If not then most likely you are not self sufficient, in the true meaning of the world.

    “Shia Iran backing Sunni Taliban with cash – American Thinker”

    Wow. One report says that they fund the Taliban. It must be true. Despite repeated attempts by the United States to find a link between Iran and just about anything the best you can find is one Taliban guy said Iran gives them stuff.

    “that deal guaranteed that in 9 years they would have a fully functional weapons program. It was a suicide pact.”

    Nonsense. Firstly these things have been played before. Iran was two years away from a nuclear weapon in 1984. In 2014 Iran was two months away from nuclear weapon.

    The agreement was the best way to prevent a nuclear weapon. But that wouldn’t sate your bloodlust so you opposed it.

  54. Oil self sufficiency is an empty boast. It means nothing in practical terms with the only function it having is to raise the question if the US is energy sufficient why does it import more oil from terrorist enablers that the EU does?

  55. //The US sells more than we import.//

    That isn’t true. Last year, like every year, the US had a trade deficit.

    The last time the US sold more than it imported was in the mid 1970s, since then it has been posting trade deficits every year, and the Reagan years saw a sharp plunge.

    Last year, the US imported USD 621 billion more than it exported.

  56. first off up until trump it was illegal for the US to export it’s gas and oil. We could and would gladly now supply any of you what you need. Except stupid nations like Germany which means all of the EU get the majority of their oil from Russia…. who of course has your best interest at heart.

    The agreement guaranteed they got a weapon…. you’re misinformed.

  57. Except stupid nations like Germany which means all of the EU get the majority of their oil from Russia…. who of course has your best interest at heart.

    Yes, as I said, we’re not self sufficient. The EU has a reason to import oil, what the US reason for importing more of its oil from SA than the EU does?

  58. “first off up until trump it was illegal for the US to export it’s gas and oil.”

    Well that is bollocks of course. The US has been exporting oil for a century.

    “The agreement guaranteed they got a weapon…. you’re misinformed.”

    I’m not. Negotiation and diplomacy is really the only way to prevent Iran getting a nuclear weapon. Aggressive posturing from the United States in fact only encourages them to get one.

  59. PVR 856

    https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MCREXUS1&f=M

    The US has always exported oil and gas.

    Under the last two years of Obama those exports were about 800% higher than they were when he took office

    There were restrictions on exports which were repealed under Obama, with his full approval, not Trump

    https://money.cnn.com/2016/01/29/investing/us-oil-exports-begin/

  60. The percentage increase under Obama was actually much higher than it has been under Trump so far.

    Look it up.

  61. Here is the best way to deal with Iran. From the Washington Post:
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/trumps-sanctions-on-iran-are-hitting-hezbollah-hard/2019/05/18/970bc656-5d48-11e9-98d4-844088d135f2_story.html?utm_term=.a31fafc38c1f

    Trump’s additional sanctions on Iran are having real effect. Monies to Hezbollah curtailed and now it needs charity. Iran’s domestic economy in downfall and internal conflict possible.

    This is the best way to handle Iran: Squeeze economically until they discontinue all actions they were warned about. This way is superior to armed conflict.

  62. that is what they have been doing NYr it’s what is spurring the Iranians to take some sort of military action. You would know that if you were reading better sources of information than Wapo.

  63. Iran is innocent. Long live the Islamic Republic 😉

  64. Pat is correct it was illegal to export oil from the US but it was nothing to do with Obama, it was a legacy from the 70’s oil embargoes and gasoline shortages

    Pat is really wrong about being able to supply the world with oil as the US is still a major importer of oil

  65. wrong EP the 2 major pipelines aren’t even complete as well as the over 500 other pipelines that are currently under construction with the refitting of almost every refinery.

    The US hasn’t even come on line yet with it’s new production and already we have exceeded our own national demands. Oil is a commodity as is refined gas and lpg. The flow of the assets just exchanging hands is part of how the money is made.

    The US in the last 5 years has become the worlds number one producer of oil by just uncapping what was already drilled. We if the dems don’t gain power are about to have a boom in oil that will make the one at the turn of the 20th century look like a small squirt.

    from 2 years ago

    The U.S. Is Entering the Biggest Oil and Gas Boom Ever …
    fortune.com/2017/11/14/us-oil-and-gas-boom
    Nov 14, 2017 · The U.S. Is on the Threshold of the Biggest Oil and Gas Boom Ever. That’s already visible in U.S. government forecasts, which say U.S. crude oil production will rise from an average of 9.2 million barrels a day this year to 9.9 million barrels a day in …

    And what comes with oil is money, money for everything. The first oil boom of the 20th century made us the greatest industrial nation on the planet. This one will spur the same effect.

    and I never said it was Obama’s fault we couldn’t export. It is an old reg left over from the cold war that was removed by Trump.

  66. Again, completely untrue,

    When the oil export restrictions were lifted – by Congress – Trump wasn’t even the Republican nominee

    https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/oil-and-gas/our-insights/us-crude-exports-ban-lifted

  67. It came about in the 2016 omnibus spending bill, the Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2016 (passed in December 2015). Now the US was still able to export some crude oil before that. In the 38 years of the “ban” the US exported 1.7 billion barrels of oil. Though it did massively expand it. The 1.7 billion barrels averages at about 45 million barrels per year. In the three years since it was repealed the US has averaged about 450 million barrels per year. So a substantial increase.

    It is also worth pointing out that the Consolidated Appropriations Act of 2016 was a compromise between moderate Democrats and moderate Republicans, and was heavily criticised by the conservative wing of the Republican Party.

  68. Patrick Van Roy,
    //The old testament is the Torah Christ reformed the religion.//

    no he didn’t Patrick in fact quite the opposite is true as Christ says himself:

    Jesus believed that the Old Testament was divinely inspired, the veritable Word of God. He said, ‘The Scripture cannot be broken’ (John 10:35). He referred to Scripture as ‘the commandment of God’ (Matthew 15:3) and as the ‘Word of God’ (Mark 7:13). He also indicated that it was indestructible: ‘Until Heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass away from the law, until all is accomplished’ (Matthew 5:18).

    https://www.bethinking.org/bible/q-how-did-jesus-view-the-old-testament

  69. The Old Testament is also not the Torah. The Pentateuch is the Torah. The Old Testament is the Tanakh.

  70. //The Old Testament is also not the Torah//

    The Old Testament in the Catholic Bible also has books that aren’t in the Torah or Tanakh, or the King James Bible.

  71. The Torah is the total of Jewish religious teachings from the beginning. The old testament is a collection from jewish religious teachings. I’ll argue theology with any of you the bulk of you have no religion and those that do refuse to acknowledge that as christians they are nothing but reformed jews.

  72. Torah (/ˈtɔːrə, ˈtoʊrə/; Hebrew: תּוֹרָה, “Instruction”, “Teaching” or “Law”) has a range of meanings. It can most specifically mean the first five books (Pentateuch) of the 24 books of the Tanakh, and it is usually printed with the rabbinic commentaries (perushim). It can mean the continued narrative from the Book of Genesis to the end of the Tanakh (Chronicles), and it can even mean the totality of Jewish teaching, culture and practice, whether derived from biblical texts or later rabbinic writings. Common to all these meanings, Torah consists of the origin of Jewish peoplehood: their call into being by God, their trials and tribulations, and their covenant with their God, which involves following a way of life embodied in a set of moral and religious obligations and civil laws (halakha).
    In rabbinic literature the word Torah denotes both the five books (Hebrew: תורה שבכתב‎ “Torah that is written”) and the Oral Torah (תורה שבעל פה, “Torah that is spoken”). The Oral Torah consists of interpretations and amplifications which according to rabbinic tradition have been handed down from generation to generation and are now embodied in the Talmud and Midrash. Rabbinic tradition’s understanding is that all of the teachings found in the Torah (both written and oral) were given by God through the prophet Moses, some at Mount Sinai and others at the Tabernacle, and all the teachings were written down by Moses, which resulted in the Torah that exists today. According to the Midrash, the Torah was created prior to the creation of the world, and was used as the blueprint for Creation. The majority of Biblical scholars believe that the written books were a product of the Babylonian captivity (c. 6th century BCE), based on earlier written sources and oral traditions, and that it was completed with final revisions during the post-Exilic period (c. 5th century BCE).
    Traditionally, the words of the Torah are written on a scroll by a scribe (sofer) in Hebrew. A Torah portion

  73. Phantom how much oil was exported before Trump.

  74. Export restrictions were removed -before- Trump took office, before he was nominated as a candidate.

  75. //I’ll argue theology with any of you ….//

    … and lose every time.

    Patrick, there are books in the Bible that I used to have that are not in the Torah or the Tanakh.

  76. I’ll argue theology with any of you the bulk of you have no religion and those that do refuse to acknowledge that as christians they are nothing but reformed jews.

    Did you not tell us that you recently told your Priest that you could no longer follow Catholicism? In any case, it seems that you’re incorrect and Noel is correct on this theoligical issue:

    When we as Catholics refer to the Old Testament, we are referring to all forty-six books of the Bible written before Christ, including the first five that the Jews call the Torah

    https://www.catholic.com/qa/what-is-the-difference-between-the-torah-and-the-old-testament-in-the-catholic-bible

  77. “I’ll argue theology with any of you the bulk of you have no religion and those that do refuse to acknowledge that as christians they are nothing but reformed jews.”

    It isn’t that we refuse to acknowledge it. There is nothing to acknowledge because that is a moronic statement that is devoid of any understanding of either Judaism or Christianity.

    In many ways what is today Christianity emerged before what is today Judaism, Christianity emerging during Christ’s lifetime and being slowly codified over the next few centuries. While what is today Judaism, Rabbinic Judaism, didn’t emerge until the 3rd or 4th century AD.

    There was a proto-Judaism that was the religion of the Jews at the time of Christ. It is generally referred to as Second Temple Judaism and is largely recognised as the form of Judaism as practiced between about 500 BC and 70 AD. Within that there was then several sects, all with their own interpretation on Second Temple Judaism. They were the Pharisees, the Sadducees, the Zealots, the Essenes, and the Christians. So Christianity started as a sect of Second Temple Judaism, not as an offshoot of modern Rabbinic Judaism.

    Rabbinic Judaism emerged in the third or fourth century out of the Pharisee sect of Second Temple Judaism.

    So Christianity and Judaism both emerged out of the same religion (Second Temple Judaism). They are cousins, not father and son.

  78. I stand corrected on the Oil export regulation. Republicans did change the rule in Congress.

    The word Torah means more than a book in a Synagog. It is a cumulation of all jewish religious teachings. Please read the definition above.

    The Old Testament is out of the Torah all the books before the new testament come from Torah

    Torah consists of the origin of Jewish peoplehood: their call into being by God, their trials and tribulations, and their covenant with their God, which involves following a way of life embodied in a set of moral and religious obligations and civil laws

  79. had to drop off last night a storm came through and we had no power till about 15 min ago.

  80. Interesting, Seamus. Did Christianity emerge from of the Jewish sects you mention, do you know?, or did it form a new sect when Jesus showed up?

    Paul, the books I was referring to are the books of Judith, and the Maccabees books and Tobit, which are quite interesting books as Bible texts go. They aren’t in the Protestant Bible or any of the sacred Jewish compilations. There are also several other books only in the Catholic Bible.

    Actually, some of these “Catholic” texts were excluded from the Bible by the Protestant reformers as they were considered* too recent (Judith was for a long time thought to date from the AD period). But then when the Dead Sea Scrolls were found, they revealed older copies of these books that dated them at the same time as many of the other OT books (which incidentally are often not as old as people generally think).

    * Maybe they were also considered a bit too racy. Judith certainly didn’t need any #Me-Too moments and Tobit’s wife apparently went through several grooms on their wedding nights.

  81. Another interesting thing is that at least one of these “Catholic” books was ignored by Jewish religious and scholars for over a millennium, but then reemerged in the late Middle Ages in Spain, apparantly after Jews had heard about it from Catholics.

  82. Most scholars accept that Jesus and His followers formed at least initially a new sect and didn’t necessarily arise out of one of the other sects.

    There is certainly Pharisaic teachings within Christianity (resurrection of the dead for example). That being said Jesus also reserves some of His harshest condemnation for the Pharisees.

    Most likely Jesus was raised as a Pharisaic Jew and His message was based on that, but also, as it evolved, became a rejection of it. That being said there are also similarities between early Christianity and the Essene sect of Judaism. So most likely a Pharisaic Jew who, upon rejecting the Pharisees, was open to ideas from the other sects.

    What is also interesting is how quickly it became seen as a new religion, and not just, as it initially was, a sect of Judaism. By the end of the 1st Century AD Christians were no longer seen as being Jewish. The source of that is the Fiscus Judaicus. This was a tax on Jews following the revolt in 70 AD. The Emperor Nerva decreed in 96 AD that Christians didn’t have to pay the tax (effictvaly recognising that by that stage Christianity had become distinct from Judaism). So in 70 AD Christians were seen as Jews. By 96 AD they were not.

  83. it was a rejection of the interpretation Jesus reformed the faith. Catholicism is Judaism reformed.

  84. “it was a rejection of the interpretation Jesus reformed the faith. Catholicism is Judaism reformed.”

    Judaism, as it is known today, didn’t exist at the time of Jesus. Thus it couldn’t be reformed.

  85. he didn’t reform the modern Hebrew church he reformed the old. The old evolved into what the Jewish faith is today.

    You two talk as if this is all settled history. It’s not, these things have been debated for 1000 years even before Christ, but Christ was the last catalyst that started a whole new set of debates.

    If you want to read some interesting books that are not in most bibles or whatever you choose to call your holy books try the Nag Hammadi library. You’ll find some very good texts there that only exist there.

    Up until recently unless you were a scholar you weren’t allowed to read the text. The Qumran scrolls are only in the public domain because one of preservation technicians got pissed over the Priests ans Rabbi’s arguing over who could read the text and he dumped a complete copy of texts out into the public.

  86. I was raised a Catholic, but my faith is much broader than the teachings of that church and with this current pope and the molestation scandals I no longer believe the catholic church exists.

    I read constantly, and I read everything. A large part of my reading is dedicated to religious text of all denominations.

  87. I state my views because they are my views and my views alone. If I can convince you to at least look at other views I am successful, if not I’ve tried.

  88. “he didn’t reform the modern Hebrew church he reformed the old. The old evolved into what the Jewish faith is today.”

    Judaism at the time of Christ (let’s call it Second Temple Judaism to avoid confusion) was distinct from both Christianity and Judaism. Both evolved out of it. There was a schism in Second Temple Judaism that resulted in Christianity and Judaism. So it isn’t so much that Christ reformed one, and the Rabbis reformed the other. Both were extremes of the debate that existed in Second Temple Judaism at the time and went their separate ways.

    “I was raised a Catholic, but my faith is much broader than the teachings of that church and with this current pope and the molestation scandals I no longer believe the catholic church exists.”

    What is your issue with the current Pope?

  89. What do you think of Hinduism

  90. //So in 70 AD Christians were seen as Jews. By 96 AD they were not.//

    In the eyes of the Romans, but that doesn’t mean much. The Romans knew and cared little about these obscure religions.
    They also got it wrong several times in, say, classifying certain W. European tribes as Germanic when they were in fact Gallic. The Romans generally took a more pragmatic, administrative approach to such things, rather than an accurate academic one.

    But still, all very interesting stuff.

    Patrick, some of the books in the Bible are not religious in any normal sense. As for

    //”Torah … can even mean the totality of Jewish teaching, culture and practice”//

    So the Torah also comprises this letter confirming ownership of a cow?

    http://www.kchanson.com/ANCDOCS/westsem/cow.html

    //had to drop off last night a storm came through and we had no power till about 15 min ago.//

    And you claim you live in the most technologically sophisticated country in the world? 🙂

  91. oh my god….. do you know how many different sub-sects there were to every sect of every religion?

    You’re trying to say I’m wrong because I’m using words you don’t like or that you are placing different meaning to than I am…..

    Look at me as the Serpent…..

    The Testimony of Truth tells the story of the Garden of Eden from the viewpoint of the serpent. Here the serpent, appears as the principle of divine wisdom.

  92. Phantom I don’t have a view on Hinduism the religions of India are fascinating and some are totally alien to us in the West.

    It is an area I have not spent the time on yet.

  93. Hey Noel when wind snaps telephone poles in half it take time to replace them.

  94. What is your issue with the current Pope?

    He’s a commie pinko idiot who isn’t upholding the faith.

  95. “He’s a commie pinko idiot who isn’t upholding the faith.”

    In what manner is he not upholding the faith?

  96. “In the eyes of the Romans, but that doesn’t mean much. The Romans knew and cared little about these obscure religions.”

    True. But they are the only impartial source available. They actually had a motive for labeling the Christians as Jews (as they could tax them). The fact that the didn’t meant it must have been more widely accepted at that point that the Christians were not Jews.

  97. “You’re trying to say I’m wrong because I’m using words you don’t like or that you are placing different meaning to than I am…..”

    Words have meaning. And ascribing different meanings to them would actually render them meaningless. To label Christianity as reformed Judaism is incorrect. That you have attempted to use it in the past as a way to advance a sense of kinship between Christians and, not so much with Jews but with Apartheid Israel, is why I challenge it.

  98. The english language is the most complicated language in use ask anyone who is not a native speaker. Just the differences between American English and British English can drive you nuts.

    Jesus was a Jew, he reformed HIS Religion and created CHRISTIANITY. That makes ALL CHRISTIANS reformed Jews.

    Apartheid Israel the language of a terror sympathizer. Words are important!

  99. “Jesus was a Jew, he reformed HIS Religion and created CHRISTIANITY. That makes ALL CHRISTIANS reformed Jews.”

    No it doesn’t. Because the term Jew, in today’s world, is a follower of Rabbinic Judaism. Thus to call someone a reformed Jew would be to say they are a reformed Rabbinic Jew, which Christians certainly are not.

    “Apartheid Israel the language of a terror sympathizer. Words are important!”

    Words are important. And Apartheid Israel is the description of Israel. But considering that words are important would you prefer Hafrada Israel? Hafrada being the Hebrew word that Israel uses to describe its policy for separating the Palestinian population from the Israeli population. Hafrada literally means ‘separation’, while Apartheid is an Afrikaner word literally meaning ‘separateness’ – effectively apart-hood.

    So maybe if Israel didn’t want Apartheid comparisons they should a) not engage in Apartheid like structures and b) then call those structures the Hebrew word for Apartheid.

  100. //The english language is the most complicated language in use ask anyone who is not a native speaker. //

    Please, say you’re joking. English at the level a student needs to understand and speak properly is very easy compared to most other languages. I don’t know anyone who’s learned it who thinks it’s a difficult language..

    I’m currently learning Croatian, and, boy, that’s a complex language. There are 7 cases, three genders for nouns, pronouns, adjectives. For example, there are over 40 forms of every possessive pronoun, while Englisch has only one. “My book is here”, “My books are here”, “I read my book” “I read my newspaper” etc etc. For this one “my”, which never changes in English, there are 42 forms to be learned in Croatian.

    Croatian is also full of exceptions. Verbs change completely in conjugations and there are different aspects of each verb. It’s almost impossible to imagine a language more complicated, although Polish and Russian are supposed to be as bad.

    English has a very large vocabulary and a lot of phrasal verbs. The pronunciation is difficult, as is spelling. But otherwise it’s very easy. You can get people who had never heard a word of English speaking simple English sentences after just a few hours teaching.

  101. English is apparently quite complicated for people who are first learning to speak it as a second language. Most languages have rules and structure and once you get the rules and structure you are flying. English doesn’t really have that. There are 11 irregular verbs in Irish. There are hundreds in English.

  102. The number of irregular verbs isn’t a good indication of the complexity of the language.
    Turkish has only 7 and, I’m told, Chinese even less.

    You also have to judge the degree of irregularity. Words like “hit” and “put” count as irregular, but in fact are even easier to learn than regular verbs as they don’t change their form at all.
    There are also many patterns of irregulars in English, which make them easier to learn.

    German has roughly the same as English (around 200), and French and Spanish have much more.

    In Slavic languages, like Croatian, there aren’t so many official irregular verbs because there are so many different conjugations, patterns for how verbs change, and most verbs will fit into one of them. If you were to take only one conjugation as the standard pattern, like English has only one, then about half of all verbs in Croatian would be irregular.

    Another important point of course is where you are coming from. Learning English for someone from the Germanic family of languages, or geneally from any European bankground, is very easy. But the strong intonations in British English are an absolute nightmare for Japanese or Chinese students, because in most Asian languages the intonation of a sound makes a totally different meaning and a totally different word.

    Irish is very difficult, I found, but you really have to go into the Slavic world to find languages that will drive you mad.

    I believe Dave Alton here learned Polish.

  103. I think you need to have an ear for languages (or a straight face for Ulster Scots). I don’t ultimately. I’ve tried to learn a couple of languages and with the exception of English, and (sadly to a lesser extent) Irish, I’ve never been able to pick them up. And both of those languages are ones I’ve been learning at some point since childhood.

  104. I speak American and can curse fluently in Italian.

  105. The JEWS…. lets see do you want to go back to Abraham…. Noah….. how about Adam ?

    Christians, Jews, Hebrews, followers Yewah etc etc etc

    All Christians and all Jews spring from the same tenants.

  106. “The JEWS…. lets see do you want to go back to Abraham…. Noah….. how about Adam ?”

    What three fictional characters?

    “Christians, Jews, Hebrews, followers Yewah etc etc etc

    All Christians and all Jews spring from the same tenants.”

    They don’t. The follow similar tenants, as do Muslims for that matter. But they are different religions.

  107. Ah to you they are fictional….. how many ancient texts mention them?

    Muslims came from the same roots.

    Are the “tales” in the ancient books of religions all over the world just fictions?

    Are they exaggerated tales of real events?

    What makes you the authority to decide?

  108. “Ah to you they are fictional….. how many ancient texts mention them?”

    How many contemporary (ie at their own time) mention them? None. There is literally no archaeological evidence to suggest that Noah, Abraham, or Adam ever existed. They are parables, stories designed to teach us. Not actually historical truths.

    “Are the “tales” in the ancient books of religions all over the world just fictions?”

    In many cases absolutely. In other cases no they aren’t.

    We know for example that Jesus existed. That is beyond doubt. He is mentioned in contemporary sources (ie writings at the time). If the only sources that mention a person are from centuries, even millenia, after they allegedly existed, then most likely they didn’t actually exist.

    “What makes you the authority to decide?”

    Nothing other than I am stating facts. If facts aren’t authoritative to you then that is your problem.

  109. History is lost with time.

    What we have left of millions of years and yes I said millions of years of human history consists of no more than 3000 years of text a large part we can not even translate.

    We make guesses at what we believe to be true. We have lost more knowledge than we have today in most areas. How do you build a pyramid like those on The Giza Plateau ?

    We can’t duplicate that presicion today how did they do it thousands of years ago?

    We can’t unravel mysteries of the past that still stand today all over the world but you can state with certainty what and who was real and fiction….

    Do you also believe man is changing the climate Seamus?

  110. “History is lost with time.”

    And similar to science – just because we don’t know the answer doesn’t mean we can fill the gaps with whatever bollocks we want. There is no evidence for the existence of Adam, Seth, Noah, Shem, Abraham, Isaac, Ishmael, Jacob, Joseph, Levi, Amram, Moses etc……

    No evidence. And the most logical conclusion is that those people didn’t exist, and the stories about them were created later.

    “Do you also believe man is changing the climate Seamus?”

    Yes. As does anyone who isn’t a moron.

  111. Wrong on all accounts. The evidence we have are the written texts. The similarities of stories across ethnic, cultural and geographic regions across the globe is a preponderance of evidence.

    and only morons believe that cow farts can change the climate.

  112. “The evidence we have are the written texts. The similarities of stories across ethnic, cultural and geographic regions across the globe is a preponderance of evidence.”

    Show me where any of those people are mentioned outside the Bible?

    “and only morons believe that cow farts can change the climate.”

    The evidence is overwhelming that anthropogenic climate change is occurring. You are pretending that it doesn’t exist in order to not contemplate the policy response required to fix it.

  113. The evidence is overwhelming that anthropogenic climate change is occurring.

    Alright smartass show me the evidence. Physical evidence.

    Good luck there is none. There are computer models that have never given the same answer twice. The “Scientists” behind anthropogenic climate change were caught fudging their data…. you’ve been conned.

  114. Global Warming Alarmists Caught Doctoring ’97-Percent …
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamestaylor/2013/05/30/global-warming-alarmists-caught
    May 30, 2013 · Global warming alarmists and their allies in the liberal media have been caught doctoring the results of a widely cited paper asserting there is …

    Author: James Taylor

  115. Fed Whistleblower: NOAA Scientists Manipulated Temperature …
    https://www.climatedepot.com/2017/02/06/whistleblower-noaa-scientists-manipulated
    The most serious example of a climate scientist not archiving or documenting a critical climate dataset was the study of Tom Karl et al. 2015 (hereafter referred to as the Karl study or K15), purporting to show no ‘hiatus’ in global warming in the 2000s (Federal scientists say there never was any global warming “pause”). The study drew …

    Global warming data FAKED by government to fit climate change …
    https://www.naturalnews.com/045695_global_warming_fabricated_data_scientific_fraud.html
    Jun 23, 2014 · The Annihilation Agenda: Why globalists are actively working to exterminate 90% of the human race – NaturalNews.com; Over 30,000 scientists say ‘Catastrophic Man-Made Global Warming’ is a complete hoax and science lie; Measle-infected baby photos FAKED by NBC News to push mass hysteria and demand vaccine compliance – NaturalNews.com

    Climate Scientist Admits To Lying, Leaking Documents : NPR
    https://www.npr.org/…/22/147263862/climate-scientist-admits-to-lying-leaking-documents
    Feb 22, 2012 · Climate Scientist Admits To Lying, Leaking Documents. He is also an outspoken proponent of scientific evidence that humans are responsible for climate change. And earlier this week, he confessed that he had lied to obtain internal documents from the Heartland Institute, a group that questions to what extent climate change is caused by humans.

    IPCC Scientists Caught Producing False Data To Push Global …
    https://www.prisonplanet.com/ipcc-scientists-caught-producing-false-data-to-push
    Nov 17, 2008 · IPCC Scientists Caught Producing False Data To Push Global Warming. In fact, as even the vast majority of man-made global warming advocates will concede, temperatures since 1998 have moved sideways and over the last 18 months they have clearly begun a downward trend.

    The fiddling with temperature data is the biggest science scandal …
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/environment/globalwarming/11395516/The-fiddling
    Feb 07, 2015 · The fiddling with temperature data is the biggest science scandal ever New data shows that the “vanishing” of polar ice is not the result of runaway global warming

  116. “Good luck there is none. There are computer models that have never given the same answer twice. The “Scientists” behind anthropogenic climate change were caught fudging their data…. you’ve been conned.”

    You keep saying that. And despite repeatedly being shown that it is bollocks you keep saying it. You are like a child sitting in the corner with their fingers in their ears screaming, to stop themselves hearing truths that they don’t want to understand.

    But for the like 900th time:

    Climate models have been pretty good at predicting long term climate change. You are peddling disproved myths.

    https://skepticalscience.com/climate-models.htm

  117. The english language is the most complicated language in use ask anyone who is not a native speaker.

    OMFG Pat. As Noel says, please say you’re joking. I’m encounter quite a few non native English speakers every day and can’t remember even one of them saying it was overly difficult to learn. As a matter of fact, I’d go as far to say that even though learning any language is a difficult process, grammatically English is one of the easier languages to learn

    In my experience such (incorrect) comments above usually come from monoglot English speakers who have never made an effort to learn another language and therefore have no comparison and who usually want to appear linguistically superior.

  118. https://skepticalscience.com/CRU-tampered-temperature-data.htm

    The Independent Climate Change Email Review went back to primary data sources and were able to replicate CRU’s results. This means not only was CRU not hiding anything, but it had nothing to hide. Though CRU neglected to provide an exact list of temperature stations, it could not have hid or tampered with data.

  119. I’m encounter

    I encounter

  120. https://skepticalscience.com/global-warming-scientific-consensus.htm

    Even if you don’t trust the Cook survey there are several more with broadly similar results.

    Oreskes, 2004: 100%
    Doran, 2009: 97%
    Anderegg, 2010: 97%
    Cook, 2013: 97%
    Verheggen, 2014: 91%
    Stenhouse, 2014: 93%
    Carlton, 2015: 97%

    Additionally:

    Scientific consensus on human-caused global warming as compared to the expertise of the surveyed sample. There’s a strong correlation between consensus and climate science expertise.

    So for the most part the people who are least likely to agree with the consensus are those with less expertise on the subject.

  121. //The similarities of stories across ethnic, cultural and geographic regions across the globe is a preponderance of evidence.//

    Several stories from the Old Testament do occur in other cultures. The story of the flood as divine vengence for sinning with just a few survivors, and the story of a child put in a basket in a river and being rescued by women and ultimately reaching fame and fortune, and several others.

    That could be explained by

    i) the events actually happening in different places
    ii) one culture feeding on another and in turn passing stories on to a third etc.
    iii) the kind of collective consciousness certain philosophers of the mind proposed.

    As an example of iii), RD Laing said that the story of Moses, and similar stories occurring in many other cultures, is a kind of individual subconscious or ontogenetic memory of conception, followed by the passage as fertilised ovum down the fallopian tube/the Nile), then nesting in the wall of the womb like the basket in the reeds at the side of th river, then being taken out by midwives/Pharoah’s daughters, and ultimately growing in this new world into something different from what you were before.

    The cultural cross-fertilisation is IMO much more likely. The amount of trading that went on even before societies were civilised is very much underestimated. Ancient Green statuettes of gods etc can be found in Northern Europe from tribes who were total barbarians. When St Patrick came to Munster in the South of Ireland he found that the people were already aware of Christianity. With traded goods goes culture and stories and religions – several of the stories in the Bible were probably taken from Mesopotamian cultures – they were the only civilisations when people around present-day Israel were still nomads.

  122. = Ancient Greek

  123. Noel

    //I believe Dave Alton here learned Polish//

    I’m ashamed to say that in my two and a half years total in Poland I only learnt to Polish to a very basic level. I could understand a lot of what was being said, but I never really learnt to think in Polish, and to speak it fluently.

    I did however speak to a lot of Polish people who were learning English, or already fluent in it.
    Their opinion of English was always the same. They said it was easier than most languages to pick up the basics, but a real bugger to become good at.
    One of the many complaints they had, was that we have so many words in English for the same thing, as well as it’s confusing grammar structure and different spellings.

  124. Seamus,

    “Do you also believe man is changing the climate Seamus?”

    Yes. As does anyone who isn’t a moron.

    Well said Seamus.

    When it comes to climate change, it’s not rocket science.

    You’ve really only got to be truthful, with three simple statements of fact.

    Do large quantities of greenhouse gases results in temperature rises. Yes.
    Is mankind producing these gases in large quantities. Yes.
    Is the overall temperature of the planet rising. Yes.

    It’s very simple really.

  125. I’m usually told that English homophones are difficult for the English language student, as are phrasal verbs but the comparitively easier grammatical tenses and neutral gender of genitive nouns make it easier than most other languages to learn.

  126. //Do large quantities of greenhouse gases results in temperature rises. Yes.
    Is mankind producing these gases in large quantities. Yes.
    Is the overall temperature of the planet rising. Yes.//

    From a purely logical p.o.v., that still doesn’t prove that they’re related, Dave.

    We could be producing gases in large quantities, but maybe still not to the extent needed to cause the global temperature increases.

    You’d have to show that the amount of GG we produce is enough for the effect described or to exclude all other factors as causes.

  127. Science split the Atom, Science put men on the moon and brought them back.

    Indians in Feathers and Con Men who sell snake oil tell you they can control the weather.

  128. Noel,

    //From a purely logical p.o.v., that still doesn’t prove that they’re related, Dave.//

    True. But…..

    //We could be producing gases in large quantities, but maybe still not to the extent needed to cause the global temperature increases.//

    CO2 is one of the most potent greenhouse gases there is. Even a tiny increase affects the global temperature. We fully understand how this greenhouse gas affects the climate.

    //You’d have to show that the amount of GG we produce is enough for the effect described or to exclude all other factors as causes.//

    We (science), have Noel. Climate scientists fully understand all of the factors relating to production of greenhouse gases. The scientific papers relating to this all available to the public.

  129. CO2 is one of the most potent greenhouse gases there is.

    you just said that…. but that’s not what your “scientists” say.

    CO 2 is not the only greenhouse gas emitted by humans. And many, such as methane, are far more powerful greenhouse gases in terms of infrared absorption per molecule.

    You don’t even know what your own priests are selling.

  130. Has the Earths Climate always Changed….. yes

    does the Earth Rotate around the Sun…… yes

    Does the Earth drift in that Orbit…….. yes

    Those are all known proven facts. Now I would say the majority of you believe man has not been on the planet since it formed that we are actually late comers to this rock and have been on it most of your views what a few hundred years out of the Billions the rocks been here.

    The Climate on the planet has changed constantly for as long as it has existed…….. now what’s more logical that a planet wide condition that has occured since creation is caused by science that we have no control over and very little understanding of or man can affect it with cow farts.

  131. Patrick Van Roy,
    //CO2 is one of the most potent greenhouse gases there is.

    you just said that…. but that’s not what your “scientists” say.//

    They’re not my scientists Patrick, stop acting so childish.
    And as usual you’re twisting what I said. I never said that CO2 was the most Powerful greenhouse gas, I said it was one of the most potent. Water vapour is actually more potent than CO2. But I picked it specifically, because of all of the greenhouse gases produced by mankind it is by far and away the largest by amount produced.

    Patrick Van Roy, on May 21st, 2019 at 12:00 AM Said:
    Has the Earths Climate always Changed….. yes

    //does the Earth Rotate around the Sun…… yes//

    Totally irrelevant to the conversation. The fact of the climate changed in the past over vastly greater time periods than we’re seeing currently, and for totally different reasons, has absolutely nothing to do with man-made climate change.

    //Does the Earth drift in that Orbit…….. yes//

    Once again you show your total ignorance. The earth’s elliptical orbit makes hardly any difference to the to the amount of energy it receives from the sun. We’re just too far away for it to matter.

  132. I just posted a Public Service Announcement on the Climate please watch. That will be now and always my final word on Climate Change.

  133. Once again you show your total ignorance. The earth’s elliptical orbit makes hardly any difference to the to the amount of energy it receives from the sun. We’re just too far away for it to matter.

    That my friend is just wrong. Seamus around every Sun is a sweet spot. It’s an orbital zone around the star that will allow H2O to remain stable in it’s liquid form. Our Solar system has two planets in that zone Earth and Mars and only one of them flourishes.

    The arrogance that you and other believers of this cult emote are ludacris.

    Provide for me the exact time table that the last 100 climate changes…. you can’t. Yet you know this one is acting different because of man… really? Where’s the data on the exact speed of change of just the last Ice age. One set of Ice cores shows a gradual change another core shows it happened almost instantly over a period of months.

    There is evidence of animal movement that had time to migrate there are also regions where mammoth and other creatures were frozen in place.

    If they can explain what CO2 will do 1000 years from now why can’t they explain the variance in the cores… ?

  134. Patrick

    If they can explain what CO2 will do 1000 years from now why can’t they explain the variance in the cores… ?

    The last refuge of the scoundrel.

  135. what last refuge……. logic?

    They can’t explain events that already occured, but they can predict what will happen 1000 years from now if we don’t stop driving and kill all the cows.

    and I’m the scoundrel?

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