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I WONDER WHO …

By Pete Moore On June 21st, 2019

Yorkshire: “Detectives investigating claims of historical child sex grooming have arrested 44 people.

Four women complained of being abused between 1995 and 2005 when they were aged between 12 and 16 …

Those arrested within the past two weeks include 36 men and three women. Five other men were arrested earlier.”

Stoke: “Detectives investigating allegations of non-recent child sexual abuse in Stoke-on-Trent have arrested 12 people.”

There’s no need to wonder what these beauties are all about. Ain’t enrichment great?

Grooming gang members who sexually abused a 12-year-old girl have been sentenced to a collective 27 years in prison.

In May Mohammed Akram and Usman Khalid were found guilty of sexual abuse following a three week trial at Leeds Crown Court.

Their target was picked up by a grooming gang at the age of just 11 and was raped numerous times over a number of years.

104 Responses to “I WONDER WHO …”

  1. some crimes should be capital

  2. Would that be Crimes?

  3. yes

  4. Civilised nations don’t kill people.

  5. Interesting that Pete doesn’t comment on ‘La Manada’ Gang rape of an 18 year old woman in Pamplona in 2016, (the rapists included a Civil Guard and serving soldier), who were initially sentenced to nine years and were freed after two. The Spanish Supreme Court eviewed their sentences today and gave them fifteen years each and they were all rearrested eariler. Strange that Pete doesn’t comment on it even though it’s linked in the Daily Mirror link he provides.

    I suppose some rapes are more politically useful newsworthy than others?

  6. In the UK 90% of rapists are white. And 100% of the rapists Pete Moore has a problem with are brown or black.

  7. Seamus, on June 21st, 2019 at 8:01 PM Said:
    Civilised nations don’t kill people.

    Who says……

  8. “Who says……”

    Me for a start. And most civilised nations say it as well.

  9. and where I’m concerned have I ever come across as civilised ?

  10. Civilised is a good thing. That the US continue to carry out this barbaric practice is a moral stain on the entire nation.

  11. bull some people need killin

  12. “bull some people need killin”

    No they don’t. They pose no threat. They are in prison. Killing them is barbaric vengeance, not civilised justice.

  13. There are deeds a person can commit that by doing so they have forfeited the right to breath.

  14. Interesting that Pete doesn’t comment on ‘La Manada’ Gang rape of an 18 year old woman in Pamplona in 2016

    There’s nothing interesting about it at all, because I saw the news report just 5 minutes ago and we’ve had enough new posts tonight. But standby, Pamplona will be on the frontpage tomorrow.

    Please resist the temptation to congratulate me on blogging about it. That would embarrass me.

  15. “There are deeds a person can commit that by doing so they have forfeited the right to breath.”

    There aren’t. It is the calculated killing of someone who poses no threat. You can try and dress it up all you like but that is what it is. It relegates the United States morally to nothing better than street thugs. Pledge allegiance to MS-13.

  16. sorry you are wrong

  17. The Death Penalty serves no purpose other than vengeance. And killing people just to make you feel good is barbaric.

  18. Killing people that have committed certain acts is both a deterrent and justice. Life in prison is cruel and vindictive punishment for everyone. The victims and the perps.

  19. Killing people that have committed certain acts is both a deterrent and justice.

    It is of course neither.

  20. “Killing people that have committed certain acts is both a deterrent and justice.”

    It is neither. There is no evidence to suggest that the death penalty is a deterrent. States with the death penalty in place have higher homicide rates than states that don’t have it in place. The homicide rate in the abolition states is 4.3 homicides per 100,000 people. In states where the death penalty remains on the books but it is de facto abolished (due to moratoriums on its use) the homicide rate is 5.1 homicides per 100,000. The homicide rate in death penalty states is 6.2 homicides per 100,000 people. If the death penalty is a deterrent then it is a shit deterrent.

    Secondly it isn’t justice. It is the killing of a defenceless prisoner who no longer poses a threat to anyone. That isn’t justice.

  21. wrong it’s both

  22. The state should have no role in the economy or healthcare. But should be allowed to arbitrarily decide who lives or dies.

  23. not arbitrarily….. you have holes in your moral compass

  24. “not arbitrarily”

    It is arbitrary. Often two crimes can have different sentences depending on the makeup of the jury. Often two people will have committed a crime but one ratted out the other one. One gets death the other doesn’t.

    “you have holes in your moral compass”

    You are the one who supports killing defenceless prisoners just to make you feel good.

  25. Wrong it’s both

    It’s neither a deterrant nor justice.

  26. It has nothing to do with making me feel better.

    If two people commit a crime together and the JURY feels one should die and the other shouldn’t one got lucky but it’s not arbitrary.

    The committed an act that has them facing death. It’s not arbitrary and it’s no ones fault but theirs.

  27. Juries have no right to put anyone to death.

    Half the jurors in the US are morons.

    The death penalty, especially when widely used, will definitely result in innocent people being executed.

  28. “If two people commit a crime together and the JURY feels one should die and the other shouldn’t one got lucky but it’s not arbitrary.”

    It is the definition of arbitrary.

    “The committed an act that has them facing death. It’s not arbitrary and it’s no ones fault but theirs.”

    It is the fault of the state. And the judge. And the jury. And the Governor. And the executioner. Luckily all will face their eternal punishment for their roles.

  29. There have been many cases where police and prosecutors have been guilty of misconduct in death penalty cases.

    I mentioned some of these at length on these pages.

    And the death fans had very little to say on the matter.

  30. In fact the US Supreme Court just recently set aside a death penalty conviction in Mississippi. The guy has been convicted four times before and all four convictions have been quashed due to prosecutorial misconduct.

  31. The prosecutor on average asked black jurors 29 questions and challenged 50% of them. He asked white jurors on average 1 question, and challenged 11% of them.

  32. The death penalty, especially when widely used, will definitely result in innocent people being executed

    Absolutely. If the death penalty had existed in the mid seventies in Britain there’d be six innocents dead in Birmingham and four in Guilford.

    That’s very very far from justice.

  33. //In the UK 90% of rapists are white. //

    How can you be sure? I’ve seen it estimated that only around 18% of sexual attacks are even reported, and the number when the perpetrator is identified will be somewhat less.

    Also, around 20 pc of the population in the UK is not white. So your statistic would suggest that the non-white population is only half as likely to commit rape than the national average. (if I calculate the statistics properly, which I usually don’t)

  34. I think the data comes from convictions. So yes there is the obvious fact that the majority of rapists are not captured in that data. However I don’t think there is a compelling suggestion that the demographics of rapists who get caught will be whiter than then the demographics of rapists who don’t get caught.

    In terms of the statistical impact I think it is generally true that Asian people make up a disproportionate number of sexual offenders. A report by the Children’s Commissioner for England found that 36% of perpetrators of gang or group related sexual violence were white, 27% were Asian, and 16% were of an undisclosed ethnicity. So it would be wrong to focus only on Asian sex gangs (as racists tend to do). It would not be wrong to point out that there is a disproportionate problem in the British Asian community.

  35. // A report by the Children’s Commissioner for England found that 36% of perpetrators of gang or group related sexual violence were white,//

    But how does that 36% turn into 90% for rape?

    Another factor is that most (reported) rapes are committed by men known to the victim, including in a relationship with her. This would probably increase the percentage of white recorded rapists.

  36. “But how does that 36% turn into 90% for rape?”

    Because the majority of rapes are not gang or group related.

  37. This is simply a government economic stimulus program.

    Mohammed and Ursman represent a £35,000* pa stimulus to the economy, in total a snip at £945,000. It’s just an accident that they stimulated little girls too.

    *Home office figures for the cost to lock someone up a body for a year.

  38. If the death penalty had existed in the mid seventies in Britain there’d be six innocents dead in Birmingham and four in Guilford.

    “Thank God that thousands of others were murdered and maimed by the IRA instead.”

  39. “Thank God that thousands of others were murdered and maimed instead.”

    How would the government murdering six innocent people have stopped any of the terrorist attacks?

    The death penalty, besides its Grand Canyon sized moral flaws, has never been shown to stop any sort of crime.

  40. Pete really is the King of non – sequiters.

  41. The government can’t do anything right supposedly, so they want the government to kill people, assuring us that no errors will be made in the process.

  42. “They committed an act that has them facing death. It’s not arbitrary and it’s no ones fault but theirs.”

    It is the fault of the state. And the judge. And the jury. And the Governor. And the executioner. Luckily all will face their eternal punishment for their roles.

    You see that’s what scares me… I’ve come to like you Seamus I mean that with all my heart, but son there was seriously wrong input fed to you over your life.

    Little Johnny being an animal isn’t the fault of the state. And the judge. And the jury. And the Governor. And the executioner it’s the fault of little Johnny’s scumbag parents more often than not.

    Besides there is in reality only one state left in the US that actually executes it’s death row prisoners, and they even just added a fast lane to their system… god bless Texas! other than there you’ll die of old age on death row.

  43. Seamus.
    //“Who says……”

    Me for a start. And most civilised nations say it as well.//

    Me too Seamus.

  44. Patrick Van Roy,
    //Killing people that have committed certain acts is both a deterrent and justice. Life in prison is cruel and vindictive punishment for everyone. The victims and the perps.//

    Total nonsense. it’s been proven time and time again , that the death penalty is not a deterrent.

  45. spare the noose spoil the little hoodlums

  46. Paul McMahon,
    //Pete really is the King of non – sequiters.//

    He’s also s*** hot at hiphoprisy and talking b******s.

  47. And if we kill some innocents so what, right?

    Because the government process will never result in that?

  48. Spot on Phantom.

    the number of innocent people murdered by the state is my biggest issue with the death penalty.

  49. sure it does it deters that sob from ever doin it again…. don’t it……..?

    Face it this is a concept that I know a lot of you could never fathom some things are black and white when a person is no longer a person they really should be put down. Now that may sound cruel and vicious but it’s really the most humane all around. What you can’t bring yourself to admit is that such men and woman walk among you. Sadly I hate to say it but they do. Creatures that no longer qualify as human beings anymore you just haven’t witnessed the bodies they’ve left in their wake. You don’t want to know the horrors that go on everyday all around you.

  50. And if we kill some innocents so what, right?

    Because the government process will never result in that?

    Nail on head right there. That’s the fundamental flaw with the death penalty.

  51. let me know when the next innocent fries will ya…..

  52. I made a modest proposal here years ago

    Can we agree that if it is proven Beyond a reasonable that someone has been wrongly executed, that the police officers, prosecutors, the judge and the jury Involved in that case should all be executed, Preferably on live television

  53. Anyone who supports the death penalty should jump on this proposal

  54. look as of now the death penalty is just about completely abolished in the US and the rest of the western world. I think it’s time to make a case to bring it back.

    There are people that commit horrendous acts on their fellow man some to the point that they should be put to death for them. However I don’t want a single innocent to die.

    So it can only take place when it is absolutely 100% the right person DNA, VIDEO, AND SELF CONFESSED.. That’s a lot more common than you think.

    And we hang em, on TV Prime Time.

  55. However I don’t want a single innocent to die.

    It doesn’t matter what you want. It will happen.

    So it can only take place when it is absolutely 100% the right person DNA, VIDEO, AND SELF CONFESSED

    So what should happen to the ones that don’t fulfill this criteria?

  56. It has been shown that some innocent persons will confess to crimes that they did not commit

    An emotionally fragile person, suddenly deprived of his liberty and deprived of sleep, etc. subjected to long questioning by highly skilled interrogators, may admit to anything Just so that this process can stop.

    It happens.

  57. https://listverse.com/2013/05/22/10-controversial-convictions-based-on-false-confessions/

  58. So what should happen to the ones that don’t fulfill this criteria?

    Let them rot life no parole

  59. It doesn’t matter what you want. It will happen. no it won’t…. and if it does that one in a billionth poor sob in today’s climate whose innocent but gonna die…. oh well they have the shitiest luck…. to bad

  60. oh shoot best news of the day The Jessie Smollett case a complete do over from scratch…. with an outside special prosecutor….. what’s St Mueller doing….?

  61. I wonder if in the days long ago when hanging was in public if it was a deterrent. It seems to me that if you see someone dangling on a rope and know it was for murder you would be mindful of that if you ever thought about murdering someone. Today capital punishment is hidden away and out of sight and out of mind. Another factor that works against deterrence is that justice is not swift or certain and some prisoners are in jail decades before being executed if ever. Justice should be swift and certain for crimes committed.

    On the justice of capital punishment there is the ‘eye for an eye’ school of ethics. If someone steals $500 we think justice would be repaying the $500. Why if someone takes a life should they not pay with their life?

    I’m not making a case for capital punishment but questioning the basis of arguments that are strictly against it. Can capital punishment ever be permitted? If we rule it out in 99% of the cases, can it be used in horrific murders where the evidence is without doubt? If we caught an ISIS fighter and have him on video beheading prisoners, would it be just to try him and sentence him to death?

  62. //And if it does that one in a billionth poor sob in today’s climate whose innocent but gonna die…. oh well they have the shitiest luck…. to bad//

    Okay, that’s honest but if you’re prepared to kill the innocent in order to get the guilty let’s have no more lofty rubbish about justice.

  63. Patrick Van Roy.
    //It doesn’t matter what you want. It will happen. no it won’t…. and if it does that one in a billionth poor sob in today’s climate whose innocent but gonna die…. oh well they have the shitiest luck…. to bad//

    What if it was someone you love like one of your daughter’s being executed for a crime she didn’t commit Patrick. Would you still be saying ‘oh well, s*** luck, too bad?’

  64. New Yorker.

    It’s been proven time and time again in numerous ways that capital punishment is not a deterrent. Also, we can’t have selective execution.

  65. Dave it would never happen because:

    A) My daughters were brought up properly and other than the general mishaps of life will never have to deal with the cops or courts.

    2) If this magical frame job where the innocent winds up in the electric chair that you all think is so common happened to her than I failed as a parent because she put herself in a position that people would frame her for something that she could be executed for. I failed to teach her to make proper choices and as a result she will die.

  66. “My daughters were brought up properly and other than the general mishaps of life will never have to deal with the cops or courts.”

    Yeah because people from good families never commit crimes.

    “If this magical frame job where the innocent winds up in the electric chair that you all think is so common happened to her than I failed as a parent because she put herself in a position that people would frame her for something that she could be executed for. I failed to teach her to make proper choices and as a result she will die.”

    And you are ok with that as a possibility? That your daughter could be murdered by the state simply because you or your wife made a mistake?

  67. One of the comforts of my life is I know my girls have all the necessary tools to live good happy productive lives.

    The directions their lives go from this point are dictated by the choices that they make from this point forward. It’s scary as hell for me, but I’ve done the best I could and I believe I’ve done fairly well in their upbringing.

  68. Yeah because people from good families never commit crimes.

    yeah they do….. stupidity knows no boundaries to class neither does addiction. But you are always looking for the outlier rather than the norm. Behavior is learned from environment.

    And you are ok with that as a possibility? That your daughter could be murdered by the state simply because you or your wife made a mistake?

    It would be because of a mistake my daughter made not the wife or I. The question you ask is a biblical one god threw your innocent child into the hands of the executioner only god can get her out. So I Pray for that is all at that point that I can do and have faith in God.

  69. ” The question you ask is a biblical one god threw your innocent child into the hands of the executioner only god can get her out. “

    God wouldn’t have. It would have been the State (or Commonwealth) who had put your innocent child into the hands of the executioner. They are the ones killing her after all.

  70. Patrick Van Roy,
    //Dave it would never happen because://

    Ah. I see you’re avoiding the question as usual Patrick.

    it doesn’t matter how well your daughters were brought up, or how good a parent you are. this still remains the possibility that they could be arrested for a crime they didn’t commit. Lets just speak hypothetically, and say that one of their boyfriends got murdered and one of your daughters got the blame for it. It’s not outside the realms of possibility.
    So you’ll be happy with her being executed because that would just be tough luck?

  71. My daughters were brought up properly and other than the general mishaps of life will never have to deal with the cops or courts […]

    Behavior is learned from environment

    Perhaps you misinderstand the concept of innocents being put to death referred to above as opposed to anyone who has committed a crime?

    As said above, if you’re willing to sacrifice the life of even one innocent in your death sentence frenzy don’t dare mention it and justice in the same breath again.

  72. No for either of my children to be in those circumstances would take an active role of god to place them in that kind of jeopardy. Because they were raised in an environment to place their feet on the proper paths of life.

  73. Paul I do not believe innocence get executed… have they…. yes it has happened I’m sure in the past. very very few are executed in the US a year and they have all gone through 20 to 30 years of appeals. A death sentence in the US is life without parole. Ask Charles Manson…. I’ll get you a shovel.

  74. Upbringing is irrelevant, only the innocence of the murdered innocent is the crux of the matter. Much like being pregnent you can’t be a bit innocent, you’re either innocent or not regardless of upbringing.

    Just hope that that ‘poor sob with the shit luck’ is never one of yours.

  75. Upbringing is irrelevant, only the innocence of the murdered innocent is the crux of the matter. Much like being pregnent you can’t be a bit innocent, you’re either innocent or not regardless of upbringing.

    Up bringing is everything foundations but less than 1% of the US agrees and understands my thinking and it’s generational.

  76. Paul I do not believe innocence get executed… have they…. yes it has happened I’m sure in the past

    Pat, how can you believe the innocent don’t get executed yet admit it has happened?

    I give you the example of Guildford and Birmingham above where ten innocents would be dead had Britain still had the death penalty.

  77. Up bringing is everything

    Not in the case of innocence. You’re either innocent or you aren’t. It’s a binary choice.

  78. Patrick Van Roy
    //No for either of my children to be in those circumstances would take an active role of god to place them in that kind of jeopardy. Because they were raised in an environment to place their feet on the proper paths of life.//

    Still avoiding answering the question I see Patrick.
    And it’s demonstrably true that bad things happen to good people.
    Whatever mumbo Jumbo rubbish you spout to claim otherwise, the fact is one of your daughter’s could end up in a horrible situation, that’s not of her making.

  79. Standards have changed for all intensive purposes the death penalty no longer exists. and those left stuck that are still scheduled have been scrutinized for decades.

    I think it’s a mistake, some things that people do they need to die for.

  80. “I think it’s a mistake, some things that people do they need to die for.”

    So much for the Declaration of Independence. God has endowed man with certain unalienable Rights, chief anomgnst them is life. Unalienable, God-given right to life. Was Jefferson wrong? Was he full of shit when he said that man had an unalienable, God-given right to life?

  81. //On the justice of capital punishment there is the ‘eye for an eye’ school of ethics. If someone steals $500 we think justice would be repaying the $500. Why if someone takes a life should they not pay with their life?//

    So stand back everyone while NewYorker comes forward to rape several times a multiple rapist.

    //Up bringing is everything //

    That was always a fallacy, but by now it should be considered plain nonsense. Peer influence will always be much stronger on anyone in their teens and later.

    Also, evidence seems to be growing by the day that inclinations to violence and generally the lack of empathy that’s behind so much crime etc are congenital.

  82. As the folk singer Tommy Sands put it:

    An eye for an eye was all that filled their mind,
    and another eye for another eye ’till everyone is blind.

    Violence begets violence. Vengeance begets vengeance. It is cyclical and never ending until someone ends it. Until someone is the better person. As society we should strive to be that better person. If a man kills another man let us end it with only one death. It is the moral, civilised way. And for those who are so inclined it is the Christian way.

    You have heard how it was said: Eye for eye and tooth for tooth. But I say this to you: offer no resistance to the wicked. On the contrary, if anyone hits you on the right cheek, offer him the other as well

  83. I am flawed for I am but a man… Non nobis Domine, non nobis, sed nomini tuo da gloriam

  84. Condemnant quo non intellegunt.

  85. so true Dave

  86. Jefferson never opposed the death penalty.

    The death penalty is immoral , but not for the reason that some think. Executing a Charles Manson or Sam Berkowitz ( Son of Sam ) Would be the most moral thing in the world

    The problem with the death penalty, Especially if it became widespread again, Would be the absolute certainty that innocents would be executed. The criminal justice system is far from perfect, esp if the defendant is poor

    If you don’t execute anybody, you don’t have to worry about executing any innocents.

    And the worst of the worst Still suffer a very harsh punishment. A life in prison would be no fun

  87. “Jefferson never opposed the death penalty.”

    So he was lying when he said “all men are … endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life”? An unalienable, God-given right to life would forbid the death penalty.

    “Executing a Charles Manson or Sam Berkowitz ( Son of Sam ) Would be the most moral thing in the world”

    It wouldn’t be. It would be lowering the State, and thus the People, to the same level as Charles Manson or Sam Berkowitz. And eye for an eye. He takes an eye so we take an eye. But he was evil when he took that eye so are we not evil when we take his?

  88. and that’s all well and true, but it doesn’t change the fact that there are crimes that people commit on each other that are worthy of being put to death for.

    You cite charlie and the dog whisperer…. but they are saying as well as you that even they shouldn’t die for their crimes. I disagree. I will always disagree.

  89. “and that’s all well and true, but it doesn’t change the fact that there are crimes that people commit on each other that are worthy of being put to death for.”

    Except there aren’t. There is no crime that deserves death. Putting someone to death is not just or justice. It is blood lust and vengeance. Killing someone simply to make us feel better. Just let that sink in. Killing another human being just to make people feel better.

  90. Killing a murderer makes it certain that he will not murder again

    And Seamus you oppose punishment of criminals and think that they should be let them out if they’ve been rehabilitated

    Well sometimes we don’t know who has been rehabilitated, who might do it again, Who might not

    Seamus, your Comments of this week Could be used by supporters of the death penalty

    You allow for the possibility That even the worst of the worst could one day walk amongst us again. They could one day commit grave crimes again.

  91. “Killing a murderer makes it certain that he will not murder again”

    So does killing an innocent person. If you kill an innocent person I can guarantee you that they will not kill anyone.

    “Well sometimes we don’t know who has been rehabilitated, who might do it again, Who might not”

    That is why you a) put proper rehabilitation programmes in place and b) if they are not demonstrably rehabilitated you don’t let them out.

    “You allow for the possibility That even the worst of the worst could one day walk amongst us again. They could one day commit grave crimes again.”

    I don’t. Because as I said if a person is not rehabilitated you keep them in prison.

  92. The recidivism rate among executed murderers is zero

    The recidivism rate among prisoners thought to have been rehabilitated is not zero

  93. As I asked above, if we caught an ISIS fighter and have a valid video of him beheading his prisoners, would it be just to execute him?

  94. “The recidivism rate among executed murderers is zero

    The recidivism rate among prisoners thought to have been rehabilitated is not zero”

    What is the recidivism rate among executed prisoners who were innocent? Probably lower than the recidivism rate among innocent prisoners who have been freed.

    “As I asked above, if we caught an ISIS fighter and have a valid video of him beheading his prisoners, would it be just to execute him?”

    No I don’t believe it would be just. It would lower the state to the same level as the ISIS fighter. The killing of someone in cold blood who posed no threat to them.

  95. The ISIS murderer should be placed in prison without any possibility of parole

  96. Prisoners are never “ no threat “

  97. A long prison sentence for the ISIS fighter also means it is possible for him to escape and resume his activities. In addition, it does nothing to discourage other ISIS and ISIS-like fighters since they may very well consider it honorable to be caught after beheading infidels and spend an extended time in more comfortable conditions than they are accustomed to.

  98. NYr you hang the bastard at a pig roast.

  99. ISIS fighters want to die for Allah. They want it. So the idea that the death penalty would pose a deterrent for them is nonsense.

  100. I don’t see too many of these sons of bitches escaping from Guantánamo

  101. “ISIS fighters want to die for Allah”. I doubt that is true of all of them. I think many would prefer the glory of beheading infidels and then spending time on earth in better conditions than they are accustomed to. If that were true why are any ISIS fighters captured instead of going down fighting until the end.

    “I don’t see too many of these sons of bitches escaping from Guantánamo”. True, but not every country has a Guantanamo.

  102. New Yorker
    //As I asked above, if we caught an ISIS fighter and have a valid video of him beheading his prisoners, would it be just to execute him?//

    In my opinion no because I don’t support the death penalty.

  103. you hang the bastard at a pig roast.

  104. You drippy Liberal Patrick 🙂