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HAPPY INDEPENDENCE DAY!

By Pete Moore On June 23rd, 2019

On this day, three years ago, the British people chose to leave the EU. It was our decision alone, in-or-out, leave would mean leave, and the government would implement what we decide. Three years later we haven’t budged one inch toward the door. That’s because the Establishment – in politics, the media, the civil service, the cultural institutions, in business – is corrupt.

The Establishment in this country is as scheming and sinister and mendacious and self-serving and hateful and contemptuous and intransigent as the Establishments in all the more obviously corrupt and evil and dangerous countries in the world to which we used to feel superior. It’s just much better at masking its vileness.

Just as a brief thought experiment, ask yourself how we’d view it if China had given its people a referendum and then executed a complete reverse ferret when the people gave the wrong result. Or if Iran had behaved similarly badly. Or the Democratic Republic of Congo.

We’d all condemn it (presuming that we’d been made aware of it) as just the kind of dodgy behaviour you’d expect from Communist dictatorships/Islamic republics/African sweatboxes. We’d be disgusted; appalled; aghast that the regime in question could get away with such crimes against democracy.

Yet somehow, mystifyingly, bizarrely, when our own government does it gets pretty much a free pass from our mainstream media, which for decades we’ve told ourselves is robust and fearless but which is in fact so compliant in might just as well be Soviet-era Pravda or Radio Pyongyang.

Dellers is out with a beautiful and wholly correct denunciation. He’s knows that democracy has been annulled not because of some backstop, not because of rules, not because the EU is a dishonest broker (which it is). You either leave the EU, as is our right, or you do not leave it. That’s all there is to it. It’s not complicated. So democracy has been annulled because the Establishment – the Remain Establishment – is as corrupt as any Third World banana republic on the planet. That is unarguable. That is observed fact.

62 Responses to “HAPPY INDEPENDENCE DAY!”

  1. Amen brother.

  2. Parliament’s duty is to examine legislation and policy and to use their knowledge, judgement and conscience to govern the country and represent their constituents to the best of their ability and to decide policy in the country’s best interests. By resisting both a bad deal Brexit and a reckless no deal Brexit they are doing an honourable and excellent job.

  3. May’s deal was unsatisfactory, but it was a form of Brexit when all is said and done and even Boris Johnson supported it in the end. It was blocked by the swivel-eyed fanatics of the ERG who have always wanted a no-deal Brexit and now they believe that Johnson is the man who will deliver it, if necessary by suspending parliament and dragging the 93 year old monarch into a constitutional crisis. Whatever it takes.

  4. Ah yes, the abstract, ubiqutious, faceless, non defined, easily transported ‘establishment’. Akin to the faceless enemy in Orwell’s 1984. Can a public school educated Oxford graduate be taken seriously when criticising such things?

    Parliament is doing exactly what Parliament is supposed to do in a Parliamentary Democracy. As for Johnson, I can’t wait:

    https://www.irishnews.com/news/brexit/2019/06/15/news/michael-portillo-makes-prediction-over-boris-johnson-s-brexit-backstop-plan-1642500/

  5. Interesting link Paul. If Portillo is correct, the DUP will learn the hard way that the old adage “Never trust the Tories” applies to them as well.

    Their only option to prevent this would be to support a no-confidence motion and trigger a general election before 31 October. That would be the nuclear option which would risk a Crobyn government, never mind the loss of some of their MPs, Dodds included.

  6. bend over grab ankles….. screw what the peasants voted for.

  7. //screw what the peasants voted for//

    So it was really the Beast you wanted then was it?

  8. I think the prospect of a Corbyn government is more likely to stay the DUP’s hand than any worry on their own front. Truth be told if any seats in Northern Ireland are going to change hands it would be the DUP gaining North Down (and perhaps Sinn Féin losing Foyle, and maybe seeing another close battle in Fermanagh and South Tyrone). And if the DUP are to lose seats it would be to an Alliance Party with a lot of momentum. If Naomi Long decides to trade in Brussels for Westminster and stands again then the Alliance have a good chance of taking the East.

  9. “bend over grab ankles….. screw what the peasants voted for.”

    Patrick, why should the will of the people be allowed to overrule the British constitution, but the will of the people shouldn’t be allowed to overrule the American constitution?

  10. The will of the people can overrule the American Constitution, through the amendment process. But our bar is higher, not just 50% plus one.

  11. “The will of the people can overrule the American Constitution, through the amendment process. But our bar is higher, not just 50% plus one.”

    Which means it ignores the will of the people. If the majority of people want something then that is the will of the people.

    And in fact if Brexit went through the American system it would have been defeated. Of the four constituent areas of the UK two rejected Brexit. So, while it had majority support, it lack the 2/3rds of the constituent areas rule.

  12. it would be the DUP gaining North Down (and perhaps Sinn Féin losing Foyle, and maybe seeing another close battle in Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

    Sylvia Hermon may be vulnerable in North Down but she will continue to benefit from tactical voting. Nigel Dodds is vulnerable in North Belfast, especially if the DUP precipitate the election through opposition to a Northern Ireland only backstop. Fermanagh South Tyrone will be a straight sectarian headcount as always, just as in Churchill’s “dreary steeples” remark in 1914.

  13. The government has a duty to attempt to implement the result of a referendum it called. Parliament as a whole has no such duty.

  14. Seamus you are correct. Under the American System Brexit would have been defeated. In fact, since we have a written Constitution, a referendum would have been illegal. Just another example of the wisdom of the Founding Fathers!

  15. “Nigel Dodds is vulnerable in North Belfast, especially if the DUP precipitate the election through opposition to a Northern Ireland only backstop.”

    I would say that Dodds was more vulnerable at the last election than he is at this one. The Sinn Féin surge has stalled a touch. The SDLP, the Trots, the Alliance and the Greens are all making inroads there. And yes there is a chance that supporters of those parties may weigh in behind Sinn Féin, especially as John Finucane is very well regarded (and more high profile given him being the Lord Mayor of Belfast).

    I wouldn’t rule out Dodds losing North Belfast but I would be surprised.

    “Fermanagh South Tyrone will be a straight sectarian headcount as always, just as in Churchill’s “dreary steeples” remark in 1914.”

    It will be. But Unionists tend to clump together better than Nationalists do in Fermanagh and South Tyrone. So any leakage to the middle will most likely come at the cost of Sinn Féin.

  16. “In fact, since we have a written Constitution, a referendum would have been illegal”

    This is a small bugbear of mine, but a bugbear nonetheless. The distinction between the US constitution and the British constitution is not that one is written and one is not. It is that one is codified and one is not. The majority of the British constitution is written down. Just not in a singular source text.

    And referendums should be illegal. They are appalling ideas.

  17. You need to not only codify Seamus but they need to tweek a few things more in the peoples favor.

  18. “You need to not only codify Seamus but they need to tweek a few things more in the peoples favor.”

    Why?

  19. “We the People” in our Constitution shows where sovereignty rests.

  20. No matter how far into the weeds I get I have 4 Documents to fall back on that they took the time to not only write out but provided the instructional manual and arguments on everything they meant.

    It’s why we are supposed to be a nation of Laws not of Men, but Laws to serve the welfare of man. Designed by genius to be run by idiots…

  21. ““We the People” in our Constitution shows where sovereignty rests.”

    It doesn’t. Sovereignty in the United States lies not with the People but with the constitution. Which is why if the majority of the People want to do something unconstitutional but don’t have sufficient support in 2/3rds of States, then the People don’t get to do what they want.

    The People are not sovereign in the United States. The constitution is.

  22. Almost all western liberal democracies have the rule of law. America is not special.

  23. Patrick, What’s the fourth document? I get the DoI, the Constitution, the Federalists…

  24. Why?

    because your election system doesn’t seem to really represent the people it seems to represent the elected class and no one else that should not be.

  25. the anti-federalist

  26. “because your election system doesn’t seem to really represent the people it seems to represent the elected class and no one else that should not be.”

    If the people don’t like it they are free to elect someone else.

    And representing your constituents does not mean slavishly doing what the majority want. That is why you have representatives and not delegates. It is the job of a representative to do what is best for his constituents, not what is popular with them.

  27. “Designed by genius to be run by idiots…”

    Credit where credit is due. The American system was a fantastic compromise between those who wanted strong government and those who wanted no government. It wasn’t a design. It was a compromise.

  28. There were a set of articles written in opposition of the original arguments made in the papers they are called the anti-federalist obscure but necessary
    https://www.amazon.com/Anti-Federalist-Writings-Opponents-Constitution/dp/0226775658/ref=sr_1_2?hvadid=77653063083397&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvqmt=e&keywords=the+anti-federalist&qid=1561323696&s=gateway&sr=8-2

  29. It wasn’t a design. It was a compromise

    It is Genius

  30. “It is Genius”

    It isn’t. It fails to work far more often that it works. It was an action of political compromise (something their cultural descendants should learn from). But it wasn’t a ‘let’s form the perfect government’ symposium.

  31. I forgot about the Anti-Federalist. Good man!

  32. “in order to form a more perfect government.” The Founders never said it was perfect. But it is genius, “because men are not governed by angels…”

  33. Though, while their arguments were not solely focused on it, the anti-Federalist movement died with the passage of the Bill of Rights. Arguably, for good or for ill, the majority of their other predictions of the problems with the US Constitution (a too powerful Presidency, an out-of-control judiciary, an increasingly federal United States, etc…) seem to have come true.

  34. The creation of timing, chance, prophecy, and premonition and the behind scene machinations of a mad Philadelphian…. pushing everything and everyone to his mad fever pitch…. 😉

  35. ““in order to form a more perfect government.” The Founders never said it was perfect. But it is genius, “because men are not governed by angels…””

    The founders weren’t a singular group of people. They were different coalitions of men who disagreed on just about everything. The attempt to form a more perfect government was mostly a critique of the Articles of Confederation. The constitution wasn’t designed. It was agreed.

  36. That’s because people took their eye off the ball Seamus. It’s cyclical. The corruption of the last election will push us back towards the rule of law once again with a little credit given that morality matters. Have faith good raises from all soil if you cultivate it.

  37. Franklin was herding cats Seamus

  38. I have the Federalist. I need to read the other evidently.

    ““in order to form a more perfect government.”

    I mis-quoted. ” a more perfect UNION.”

  39. more than close enough….

  40. Good discussion guys.

  41. I would say Franklin’s role in the Constitution is somewhat overrated. In reality the major influences (beyond liberal writers like Locke and Montesque) on what was actually adopted were James Madison, Alexander Hamilton and Roger Sherman. In fact Franklin, despite signing the Constitution, was quite critical of it (especially the concept of a singular Presidency). Many of the specific Franklin ideas were present not only in the US constitution but in the previous Articles of Confederation.

    So I would say Franklin’s role in the creation of the United States (as an idea) is arguably without any competition. But his specific role in the Constitution was small.

  42. “Good discussion guys.”

    Indeed.

  43. And referendums should be illegal. They are appalling ideas.

    Really Seamus? So should there not have been referendums north and south on the Good Friday Agreement in 1998?

  44. Well there needed to be in the south because it required a constitutional amendment. But in reality the benefits of the Good Friday Agreement were the political compromises made between unionism and nationalism, not the referendum that followed. That’s why it is commemorated and remembered on the 10th of April, not the 22nd of May.

  45. Of course it is commemorated on the day it was signed, that doesn’t mean that the referendum shouldn’t have been held to endorse it. Without that it would have had no legitimacy.

  46. It would have had legitimacy as it was agreed by the elected representatives of unionism and nationalism, and the elected governments of the UK and Ireland.

    Referendums do not provide for legitimacy. If they did then no UK decision taken before 1975 and all but a couple since have been without legitimacy.

  47. Referendums do not provide for legitimacy.

    Well that rules out Switzerland then. They have referendums every year. Obviously they have a lot to learn about democracy.

  48. So I guess that because the United States doesn’t have referendums then they are an illegitimate country? Pretty much North Korea?

  49. No, my point is that there is nothing illegitimate with referendums. And the US is hardly a model of democracy as we saw in 2016 when Trump was elected with three million less votes than his opponent.

    Off topic, good to see Erdogan stuffed today in the Istanbul mayor election:

    “Turkey’s ruling party has lost control of Istanbul after a re-run of the city’s mayoral election, latest results show. The candidate for the main opposition party, Ekrem Imamoglu, won 54% of the vote with nearly all ballots counted. He won a surprise victory in March which was annulled after the ruling AK party complained of irregularities.”

    Maybe Erdogan should demand a third election? It’s what the EU would do.

  50. No, my point is that there is nothing illegitimate with referendums.”

    I never said they were illegitimate. Just that they do not provide for legitimacy. They are a decision making tool. And one that is no more or less legitimate than any other. My objection to them is that they are a bad decision making tool, and is in fact harmful to accountability structures in a representative democracy.

  51. Franklin was the lynchpin that held it together and kept it moving the multiple times everything fell apart.

    If anything his role behind the scenes keeping all the pieces moving is underreported to say the least.

  52. California is one state where referendums Are important

    https://votesmart.org/elections/ballot-measures//CA

  53. “In reality the major influences (beyond liberal writers like Locke and Montesque)”. I would also include Northern Irish philosopher Francis Hutcheson as a major influence.

  54. Hutcheson’s influence on the formation of the United States is without doubt. But again I would say his role in the Constitution is limited. Where you see Hutcheson’s influence more than anything else is in the Declaration of Independence. The idea of unalienable rights is straight out of a A System of Moral Philosophy. I would be shocked if Jefferson hadn’t read it before drafting the Declaration. Hell I’d almost bet he had a copy open in front of him when he wrote it.

    That being said the Constitution also differs heavily from Hutcheson’s major philosophical idea, that of utilitarianism.

  55. The problem I see with referendums is that they are an end run around the system of representative democracy. Then when it passes, you have to hand it over to that same system to implement, the very system that you didn’t trust to make the call in the first place.

  56. That is a big part of the problem. The other problem is who do you blame when something goes wrong. In a representative democracy we elect our representatives. They make decisions. If they make good decisions we re-elect them. If they make bad decisions we get rid of them and elect someone else. So what do you do when the electorate make a bad decision? Who can you hold accountable for it?

  57. Indeed Seamus. Good Comment.

    California did not go down the Brexit road. The Cali Supremes quashed a proposition to be on the ballot to split the state into three states.

    The justices unanimously agreed that the proposal shouldn’t be on the ballot, at least for the time being.

    The state Supreme Court wrote that “significant questions have been raised regarding the proposition’s validity” and “the potential harm in permitting the measure to remain on the ballot outweighs the potential harm in delaying the proposition to a future election.”

    https://www.npr.org/2018/07/19/630474469/california-supreme-court-squashes-bid-to-split-state-into-three

  58. California is a sociological mess of vast wealth and extreme poverty to the point of a whole segment of it’s population on the verge of being wiped out by typhoid or the black death.

    The state should be walled off and allowed to fail.

  59. Seamus

    Jefferson read System of Moral Philosophy and Inquiry on Ideas of Beauty and Virtue.

    As to referendums which is a form of direct democracy, I think it is often in conflict with representative democracy and states should select one or the other but not both as the type of democracy for their state. I would favor representative democracy. The point you make about ‘who to blame’ is an important one which we see strangling the UK at present.

  60. “California did not go down the Brexit road. The Cali Supremes quashed a proposition to be on the ballot to split the state into three states.”

    I could see stuff like that becoming more common as the balance of the Senate becomes more important. The Senate favours smaller states and has a Republican advantage as they do better in smaller states. If you add up the popular vote from the last 3 Senate elections (and thus the elections for every single Senator) in 2014, 2016 and 2018, then the Republicans finish on 99.7 million votes (42.9%) and the Democrats finish on 124.6 million votes (53.6%). Yet the Republicans have a pretty comfortable majority. So the Democrats are looking at ways to address what they see as an imbalance in the Senate. So DC Statehood, Puerto Rican Statehood, the potential for other new states, will start to play a bigger part of the national debate.

    “As to referendums which is a form of direct democracy, I think it is often in conflict with representative democracy and states should select one or the other but not both as the type of democracy for their state. I would favor representative democracy. “

    I would agree on both points. Peter mentioned Switzerland earlier. Referendums work in Switzerland as they don’t really have the same sort of representative democracy and are much more of a direct democracy country. But in countries with strong representative democracy systems the trend towards referendums is a negative one.

  61. DC statehood and PR statehood would be a naked scam for Dem votes

    If DC doesn’t like being in a federal district, those lands can be returned to Maryland and Virginia who donated land to form DC.

    Puerto Rico is a net drain on the treasury. They should be allowed independence if they want it, but not statehood.

    Every possession does not get to be a state. There should not be a state of Guam or Virgin Islands, etc.

  62. “DC statehood and PR statehood would be a naked scam for Dem votes”

    It would be but then opposition to it is also a naked scam by the Republicans.

    “Puerto Rico is a net drain on the treasury.”

    So are 41 of the States. And if Puerto Rico was a state then it wouldn’t crack the Top 10 of net drain states.