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WOMEN’S FOOTBALL IS RUBBISH

By Pete Moore On July 7th, 2019

But first, congratulations to the US lesbians, who have beaten the Netherlandish lesbians in what must have been an amazing final. I didn’t see it, but everything about women’s football is wonderful, amazing and so inspiring. I know that because the BBC has spent the last six weeks telling me so. Radio North Korea would struggle to be more gushing about Kim Jong-un than the BBC is about women’s football.

So I watched my first women’s game this weekend, the England vs Sweden play off, and what a load of crap it was. No, I wasn’t comparing it to the men’s game. That would be pointless because of the vast physical differences. I watched it for its own merits and judged it likewise.

I saw a lack of fitness, atrocious technique, mystifying tactics, poor awareness of teammates, diabolical passing and ball control (on the rare occasion it was required) which suggested the ball was on fire. Yes, it’s perfectly fair to say so, because it’s true and these women are professionals now. This is their full time job. They want equal treatment with men, so they can have equal treatment with men.

Girls, you’re crap.

154 Responses to “WOMEN’S FOOTBALL IS RUBBISH”

  1. Girls, you’re crap.

    I’d like to see you or anyone else here go three rounds with Katie Taylor and then tell her she’s crap Pete.

  2. I was quite put off with Rapinoe’s anti-Americanism that has been on display. I don’t care about the White House thing. Trump is not everyone’s cup of tea. But when your National Anthem plays, you put your hand over your heart. End of story!

  3. Another running of the bulls post? 😉

  4. Cryptic Charles

    ?

  5. ie more sports?

  6. Hmmmmmm. Not sure if I’d group centuries of tradition in the same classification as sports.

    When your National Anthem plays, you put your hand over your heart. End of story!

    Why?

  7. Why?

    B/C she is on Team USA. You dance with the one that brung ya. Rapinoe was being purposely disrespectful to her own country on foreign soil.

    And when you walk with a cane, running with bulls seems like a sport to me!

  8. Girls, you’re crap.

    Having acquired ’empowerment’ and escaping the patriarchy, they have discovered that they are generally inadequate in the white man’s world – and they believe that they are suffering discrimination!!!

    https://www.cbssports.com/soccer/news/a-dallas-fc-under-15-boys-squad-beat-the-u-s-womens-national-team-in-a-scrimmage/

    In preparation for two upcoming friendlies against Russia, the U.S. women’s national team played the FC Dallas U-15 boys academy team on Sunday and fell 5-2, according to FC Dallas’ official website.

    This friendly came as the U.S. looked to tune up before taking on Russia on Thursday night in a friendly.

    Just last month the U.S. lost the SheBelieves Cup, winning the first game over Germany 1-0 before losing to England (1-0) and France (3-0).

    Right – so the US women’s soccer team which reached the WC finals was trounced by a U-15 boys team from Dallas.

    Of course, this match against the academy team was very informal and should not be a major cause for alarm. The U.S. surely wasn’t going all out, with the main goal being to get some minutes on the pitch, build chemistry when it comes to moving the ball around, improve defensive shape and get ready for Russia.

    Brilliant 🙂 Let’s imagine that the men’s team had a similar result, and the US men’s team is powerful – what would have happened?

    But worse still – the women want ‘equality’ with men…….money

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=16&v=D1gCNUgpl2Q

    They are unhinged, in every sense.

    More importantly, if there were a fire in your house and the door needs busted down to save a child, would you want an ‘equal pay’ man or an ‘equal pay’ woman to take care of the door?

  9. The England Sweden game was a third place play-off. Those games are always crap

  10. I’m unaware of and can’t see anywhere how she was disrespectful to the US Charles but I wouldn’t class not putting your hand to your heart during the National Anthem as being disrespectful, (if that’s what happened).

    And when you walk with a cane, running with bulls seems like a sport to me!

    Point taken mate!

  11. Who loves their country more? Someone who pretends their country isn’t flawed, who lets it decline, who doesn’t do everything they can to better their country but proudly puts their hand on heart and belts out the anthem? Or someone who diagnosis the problems of their country, and supports efforts to fix them, but who doesn’t necessarily do the pomp and pageantry as well?

    “I saw a lack of fitness, atrocious technique, mystifying tactics, poor awareness of teammates, diabolical passing and ball control (on the rare occasion it was required) which suggested the ball was on fire.”

    Have you seen the state of some men’s teams Pete? Including the one that I support, and including the one that you support? Because you’ve pretty much summed up Man Utd for most of the last decade, and Arsenal for considerably more time than that.

  12. Maybe it’s an Amurican thing!

  13. Have you seen the state of some men’s teams Pete?

    I’m a Dallas Cowboy’s fan, Seamus. I know what you’re saying mate!

  14. I’ve seen more than my fair share of American sports and overwhelmingly the majority of players, never mind supporters, don’t sing the US anthem (normally as they have some overrated pop ‘star’ mangling it).

  15. Seamus, most players put hand over heart, as do the spectators.

  16. Am I channeling PVR here? I may be in a crusty mood today! 🙂

  17. “I’m a Dallas Cowboy’s fan, Seamus. I know what you’re saying mate!”

    Thankfully the Colts seem to have turned that corner.

    “Seamus, most players put hand over heart, as do the spectators.”

    Sure, but not universally either. Seen plenty of players doing the whole two hands on the collar thing that seems to be a thing there.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTuoq6TllaU

    At 0:23 you see the best player in the NFL today doing it.

  18. Seamus thank you for that clip!

  19. The sport of nobles, warriors & dieties:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmzivRetelE&t=26s

    I wonder how the naysayers here would fair in the women’s equivilent?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wByfbW_DTw

  20. Charles,

    No problem. I do have to say as anthems go it is one of the better ones. Up there with the French, Welsh, German anthems and the old Soviet anthem.

  21. BTW, that Superbowl thing video is performed by the greatest woman female soul singer of all time.

  22. “I wonder how the naysayers here would fair in the women’s equivilent?”

    I’d pick a fight with a hurler long before I’d pick one with a camóg.

    “The sport of nobles, warriors & dieties:”

    I love that video. Not least as it includes probably my favourite moment of hurling ever. The Rock against Limerick – shoulders the Limerick boy out of the way and belts in a hell of a score.

  23. I find most spectator sports including football really boring.
    However I did watch one of the woman’s football matches, and I quite enjoyed it.

  24. This self-absorbed and unsportsmanlike US women’s soccer team was very hard to like. They slavishly copied all the bad traits of the worst male sore winners. They brought nothing new to the pitch.

    Their most prominent player loathes Trump, but this team is a perfect example of Trump vulgarity

    An ink stained Irish sports writer nails it.

    https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/womens-world-cup/eamonn-sweeney-arrogant-entitled-and-selfcentred-the-us-womens-soccer-team-couldnt-be-more-trumpian-38289699.html

  25. Charles in Texas, on July 7th, 2019 at 8:44 PM Said:
    Another running of the bulls post? 😉

    Thank you Charles classic….. (also a remark that would get you fired in corporate america) they all lost any sense of humor long ago.

    Paul she was there to represent AMERICA not her own personal views. We had a tradition in this country that even politicians leave their personal politics at home let alone some athlete.

    She should have been sent home as soon as she pulled her crap, period.

    As for the quality of the play….. who cares Soccer is a womans game in the first place.

  26. I don’t know which is more cringeworthy during the playing of a national anthem: watching someone close his eyes and place his hand on his heart, with a jaw stiff enough to dig a trench, or watching a player take a knee or otherwise display some personal vendetta against his or her country.

    Players should simply stand still and sing along.

    Yes, thanks for that creat hurling link, Paul. That’s real skill and those are real men. You won’t see a young multi-millionaire rolling around on the ground crying after getting a knock in hurling.

    Who was the player who once got a belt of a camán on the head shortly after the 2nd half started and lost an eye, but still played on and finished the game?

    Great link to Eamonn Sweeny, Phantom. He really does nail it.

  27. I think you may be referring to Cats player Tom Walsh Noel. He got clipped with a hurl and played on but eventually came off to go to hospital, losing his eye.

    Paul she was there to represent AMERICA not her own personal views. We had a tradition in this country that even politicians leave their personal politics at home let alone some athlete.

    She did represent America Pat. As a matter of fact, they represented America so well they won the tournament.

    She should have been sent home as soon as she pulled her crap, period

    What ‘crap’ did she pull?

  28. Trump can’t seem to go abroad without spouting his mouth (without any objection from you) so clearly that tradition is no longer a thing.

  29. Trump whined about “ nervous Nancy “ Pelosi and Mueller on Fox in France within close sight of the graves of D Day dead

    Last month.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KOrYer3DkWo

  30. Nancy Pelosi colluded with Syria by meeting with Assad in ’07

    Ted Kennedy colluded with the Soviet Union to rig the election against Reagan in 1984

    John Kerry is colluding with Iran right now!

    The media doesn’t care about collusion

    They only care about destroying Donald Trump

  31. If this was supposed to endear soccer to American fans they failed.

    Paul when the Anthem is played you stand and put your hand on your heart. America paid for this team the team is there to represent America.

    Her making a point to comment to the Press that she refused to Honor the Anthem for ANY reason should have gotten her sent home. Their job is propaganda nothing more and she couldn’t do it.

    She couldn’t separate her personal feelings from her job.

  32. I see Andrew Cuomo and Bloomberg took several trips on the Perverts Plane Phantom…..

    More good NYrs

  33. Donald Trump rode the ” Lolita Express ” plane to the sex slave island also.

    And he publicly said that Jeffrey Epstein was a ” great guy ” who ” liked girls a little young ” also

  34. Paul when the Anthem is played you stand and put your hand on your heart. America paid for this team the team is there to represent America.

    Says who Pat? Look at 1.43 on this video and tell me how many of the US Forces Afghanistan have their hand on their hearts:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oU_UEVp2ynU

  35. Paul when the Anthem is played you stand and put your hand on your heart. America paid for this team the team is there to represent America.

    Not according to the American Soccer Federation you don’t :

    Shortly after Rapinoe began her on-field protest, the US Soccer Federation changed its anthem regulations, requiring its athletes to stand. The captain now typically observes the anthem without singing along and without placing her hand on her heart.

    https://www.vox.com/2019/6/29/19953294/ocasio-cortez-megan-rapinoe-us-womens-soccer-team-house-representatives

    From what I can see this ‘disrespect’ comes from the petulant President being snubbed on a future WH visit for the team.

  36. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/07/07/jeffrey-epstein-ex-donald-trump-bill-clinton-associate-arrested/1669665001/

    Financier and convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein, who was arrested Saturday in New York on sex-trafficking charges, is best known for his ties to President Donald Trump and former President Bill Clinton.

    That’s only one of the intriguing aspects about the legal action against a billionaire hedge fund manager long suspected of running a sex-crimes ring based on the recruitment of underage girls in the U.S. and abroad.

    Here are answers to five key questions on the Epstein case:

    Why is he in legal trouble?
    Law enforcement officials told The Associated Press that Epstein will appear in Manhattan federal court on Monday to face charges stemming from accusations that date to the early 2000s. One source said he stands accused of paying dozens of minors for massages and molesting them at his homes in Florida and New York.

    The new charges emerged from an investigation conducted by the FBI and the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Southern District of New York, 11 years after Epstein dodged major jail time after pleading guilty to state charges of soliciting and procuring a person under 18 for prostitution.

    How was Epstein penalized for his conviction?
    Under what’s known as a non-prosecution agreement (NPA) with federal authorities in Florida, Epstein served a 13-month jail sentence but was allowed to spend much of it at his Palm Beach office through a work-release program.

    The deal ended the FBI’s investigation into numerous accusations against Epstein and granted him immunity from the more serious federal charges. In addition, the NPA granted immunity to potential co-conspirators and shielded the deal from the victims.

    This year, a judge ruled that Alexander Acosta – at the time the U.S. attorney in Miami and now Trump’s labor secretary – and his fellow federal prosecutors violated the law by failing to inform the victims about the NPA.How was Epstein penalized for his conviction?
    Under what’s known as a non-prosecution agreement (NPA) with federal authorities in Florida, Epstein served a 13-month jail sentence but was allowed to spend much of it at his Palm Beach office through a work-release program.

    Acosta gave Epstein an astonishingly sweet deal. Wonder why. Wonder why he’s in the administration now.

    Many prominent men involved in this, maybe more than those mentioned so far.

  37. Most people don’t put their hands over their heart when the anthem is played.

    I don’t criticize her for that.

    But I don’t like that she was mouthing off about Trump during the tournament. She, personally, turned a sport that still struggles for acceptance in the US, into a partisan thing, when that didn’t have to be.

  38. From what I can see Phantom she was asked a question which she answered. It was videoed by someone and posted on Twitter?

  39. “Nancy Pelosi colluded with Syria by meeting with Assad in ’07

    Ted Kennedy colluded with the Soviet Union to rig the election against Reagan in 1984

    John Kerry is colluding with Iran right now!

    The media doesn’t care about collusion

    They only care about destroying Donald Trump”

    Suddenly collusion is a thing now? Have you not spent the last couple of years trying to pretend that collusion isn’t actually a thing?

    Also meeting with a foreign leader is not collusion, unless all of Trump’s meetings with foreign leaders is now collusion.

    According to Max Kampelman, a former Reagan administration official, all of Kennedy’s back-channel communications where never done without “informing the appropriate United States agency or official”. Some conspiracy there. Sorry I mentioned the “c” word. Don’t lose your shit again.

    And Kerry is engaging in communication with the Iranians. That isn’t collusion. It is communication. It is also something that 47 Republican Senators did in 2015 without any complaint from you.

  40. Nothing that Republicans do is ever bad

    Everything that Democrats do is bad

    That is the extent of this cut and paste ” logic “

  41. The interview with Rapinoe was also a few months ago, so it wasn’t in the middle of the tournament. It was released during the tournament but occurred before it.

  42. A public figure doesn’t need to shoot their mouths off about everything.

    She is just like Donald Trump in that respect.

  43. If she shouldn’t answer that question then have a go at the interviewer for asking her it.

  44. He / she / it didn’t force her to shoot her mouth off.

    She is responsible for her own actions.

  45. She didn’t shoot her mouth off. She was asked a question. She answered it.

  46. The way I see it she was asked a question about a possible future WH visit and answered it.

    Is that the extent of her ‘disrespect?’

  47. Rapinoe could easily have watered down the impression made if she liked. But she left no doubt about her aversion for Trump and seems to be taking a firm stand in this, by now jaded, culture war going on in the US. Trump is an imbecile, but this isn’t the 1950s or early 60s when there were genuine injustices. There are naturally inequalities remaining even in the most developed countries, but not enough to disrespect the entire country or its symbols.

    She should stay away from the WH if she wants, as at least some of the royal celebs in London should have stayed about from Trump during his last visit. But to make a point, simply don’t go and leave it at that. No need to tell the world about it.

  48. Pete

    You need to edit headlines better

    The word ” Women’s ” is not needed 🙂

  49. Noel

    Spot on.

    A little grace and dignity would have gone a long way, would have been ten times more effective.

    And the Irish sportswriter makes the point that this was an international competition that the American team was part of, not an internal US thing. Every world conversation doesn’t need to be American partisan cops and robbers.

  50. Noel, as I said, it’s my understanding she was asked a question and answered it, it was videoed and someone posted it on social media. If what Seamus claims above is true, that it was recorded a few months ago, then that mitigates the ‘disrespect’ further.

    From what I can see, (and I’m open to correction on this), it seems to be a very contrived offence and a mountain is being made out of a molehill.

  51. The Trump angle doesn’t need to be overdone. He gives no respect and deserves none. But you seem to miss the point that you don’t need to comment on everything. You need to be aware of who you are, the position that you are in.

    And this was’t just about the comments about Trump.

    This team showed disrespect to the England team, with the tea sipping stunt, and to the hopelessly outmanned Thailand team.

    You can say that many male athletes do that too these days, but why should anyone wish to slavishly follow the antics of men who don’t know how to act, those who have no respect for the opponent?

    I don’t have any respect for men who mock the opponent, esp the defeated opponent, either.

    A little respect goes a long way.

    https://external-preview.redd.it/3Np63OkeHyZLREY897EU8leUW4fb6RSMw5mV0k7fasU.jpg?auto=webp&s=7089587d14696971e9f2cbb7470a41c11f4b9410

  52. This team showed disrespect to the England team, with the tea sipping stunt, and to the hopelessly outmanned Thailand team.

    Okay, that’s a fair point and may deserve criticism in being unsports(wo)manlike. But it’s a different one from the one Pat makes above.

  53. Absolutely criticise them for the actions against Thailand and, to a lesser extent, against England. The lesser extent being that while it is still wrong for them to have done it the tea drinking thing pales into insignificance compared to have the bollocks that male soccer players routinely get away with. It isn’t so much about them emulating men but more about pointing out that it is wrong to call a girl out for something you wouldn’t call a guy out for.

  54. Fair enough.

    BTW, the above photo is one of the more famous ones in the history of NHL hockey.

    The Montreal Canadiens have just eliminated the Boston Bruins in the Stanley cup playoffs, in 1952. You see it every couple of years in the sports pages, it is that iconic.

    Maurice Richard of the Canadiens had been knocked out, came to, scored the winning goal.

    Jim Henry of the Bruins approaches him to shake his hand.

    They had bloodied one another for a hour, are filled with respect and admiration for one another.

    If a Canadiens player had mocked the Bruins in any way, Richard would have taken their head off, not the Boston team.

    This type of respect for the sport and for the opponent, still exists, mostly in tough sports like ice hockey and rugby, but it is diminished in other sports.

  55. Absolutely. It is one of the major differences between Gaelic Games and soccer. Before the match the soccer players do the faux respect thing (shake hands etc…) but after the match they bitch and moan at each other, celebrate in front of each other etc… In Gaelic football and hurling the players will try to kill each other before the game (they can’t come out at the same time otherwise they will knock the ramp out one another). After the match everyone shakes hands and it is all over with.

  56. Now apparently some people in the US want her to run for President some time.

    This guy – seriously – claims she has the required qualifications, as “Rapinoe has a real history of accomplishment and excellence in her chosen field: She has been a member of national teams that won two World Cups”.

    So the best pole vaulter, shot putter, bowler, boxer, ballet dancer, MMA fighter etc are all suitable material for president.

    This is the rank stupidity that emerges when a society becomes completely polarised.

    God Help America

    https://theweek.com/articles/851361/megan-rapinoe-president

  57. Well if a reality TV star can be President…

  58. One of the things that I admire about ice hockey is that at the end of every elimination tourney, all players of both teams line up to shake hands.

    They don’t do it in baseball, football or basketball.

    It is a fine ritual.

    More power to the Gaelic games. That’s what it’s all about.

  59. Suddenly collusion is a thing now?

    read the comment Seamus ….. it points out that the MEDIA who spent two years raging about collusion only did so because it was Trump…… Their Hypocrisy was my point.

    First off Collusion is not a crime. The crime is Conspiracy which Trump did not engage in, but the Democrats have a history of it and it is still going on today with Iran.

  60. Conspiracy to do what?

    “read the comment Seamus ….. it points out that the MEDIA who spent two years raging about collusion only did so because it was Trump…… Their Hypocrisy was my point.”

    And your own hypocrisy? What about that? Attacking John Kerry for communicating with Iran while saying nothing about the 47 Republican Senators who did it in 2015?

  61. “They don’t do it in baseball, football or basketball.”

    At least there does seem to be handshakes, certainly in football. It is pretty much universal that the two coaches, regardless of result, will meet in the middle of the field. The two quarterbacks etc…

    Including players, IR, coaches etc… there are probably 75-80 guys on an NFL team. So it would take about four days for them all to shake hands after the game.

  62. In Gaelic football and hurling the players will try to kill each other before the game (they can’t come out at the same time otherwise they will knock the ramp out one another). After the match everyone shakes hands and it is all over with.

    I don’t think I’ve ever experienced the level of fierce rivalry and passion that fotball and hurling generate, particularly at club level.

    Now apparently some people in the US want her to run for President some time.

    That would ertainly be in line with the American Dream, land of opportunity, anything acheivable with hard work ethos supposedly espoused by Americans?

  63. In baseball, there would be very little congratulations between the teams.

    The winners generally giggle and jump on one another, and ignore the other team completely.

  64. The “team” is a propaganda tool. Nothing more. The sport has zero viability in America someday in the next 100 years male soccer might gain enough of a following in the US to be viable but women’s soccer never will.

    The Teams Job was to promote America nothing more her bad mouthing the President and bad mouthing a trip to the White House undermines the point of the teams existence.

    Sorry folks I know to you Soccer is the end all a be all of everything. It’s not here in the states. In the states it’s the sport in school that only those who can’t make it in football or baseball go into. It just doesn’t mean anything here in the states.

    Part of what this team was supposed to accomplish was to create an interest in the sport instead it was turned off in the majority of pubs across America and she pissed off half the country…. yeah great way to promote a sport.

  65. In a poll recently, I think gallop, suggested that amongst under 35s soccer is the second most popular sport in the United States, behind American football and level with basketball, and well ahead of both baseball and ice hockey.

    “The Teams Job was to promote America nothing more her bad mouthing the President and bad mouthing a trip to the White House undermines the point of the teams existence.”

    No. The team’s job was to win. Which it did.

  66. “I don’t think I’ve ever experienced the level of fierce rivalry and passion that fotball and hurling generate, particularly at club level.”

    Indeed. Was semi tempted to throw the niece’s school football certificate out because it was awarded by Sarsfields.

    “The winners generally giggle and jump on one another, and ignore the other team completely.”

    Yeah it does seem that the winners celebrate and the losing team just leave. There doesn’t seem to be much a post match anything in baseball. Always struck me as odd.

    I think baseball’s biggest problem is that the players have no legal way of taking their aggression out on someone. It is why there are probably more fights in baseball than the likes of rugby, American football etc… Ice Hockey is a bad example. There are plenty of ways of getting their aggression out but they still fight anyway.

  67. The Teams Job was to promote America nothing more her bad mouthing the President and bad mouthing a trip to the White House undermines the point of the teams existence

    The team’s job was to win an international tournament which they did. Soccer has a massive following internationally, more than American sports could even dream of and it’s my understanding, (according to Seamus), that the comments were made prior to the tournament?

    It seems that according to ASF rules she doesn’t have to stand with her hand on her heart during the national anthem, it seems that the the comments were made prior to the tournament and that the petulant President was at the very least equal in winding things up-

    As far as I can see it’s faux, contrived outrage.

  68. Fighting within limits is fine in ice hockey, it is part of the tradition.

    There used to be way more fights in baseball than there are now and they used to be real fights. People got seriously hurt in them. ( Bill Lee, Red Sox ) The announcers and fans loved it. That doesn’t happen now, and that’s good.

  69. 47 Republican Senators who did it in 2015

    Talk about displaying Ignorance……

    In 2015 on my Birthday 47 Republican Senator Released an OPEN LETTER explaining to Iran that no matter what Obama tells them a Treaty has to be approved by the Senate it was a Civics Lesson….

    Obama never put the Iran Deal through as a Treaty it was done unconstitutionally, but you don’t know that because you don’t understand our system. Sending an Open Letter that was also released in the Press is NOT the same as secretly going to Iran and telling them not to negotiate as John (I served in Vietnam) Kerry is doing… he’s committing sedition up to treason.

    Big Difference.

  70. Indeed. Was semi tempted to throw the niece’s school football certificate out because it was awarded by Sarsfields.

    My nephew’s club. I forgot you were an upparoader.

  71. https://external-preview.redd.it/3Np63OkeHyZLREY897EU8leUW4fb6RSMw5mV0k7fasU.jpg?auto=webp&s=7089587d14696971e9f2cbb7470a41c11f4b9410

    Back in the day when baseball players really used to hate each other.

  72. “Big Difference.”

    So Republican Senators sent a communication to Iran, telling them to ignore the President, and that is fine (a civics lesson even). Democratic former Secretary of State sends communications to Iran, telling them to ignore the President, and it is treason. The only difference I can detect is the party of the people doing it. And I imagine that is the only difference that matters to you.

    “Obama never put the Iran Deal through as a Treaty it was done unconstitutionally, but you don’t know that because you don’t understand our system. “

    What was unconstitutional about it?

  73. “My nephew’s club.”

    No one is perfect.

  74. Paul soccer has a massive following outside the US inside the US it has zilch…. It’s nice the team won, but other than the Rapinoe no one knows the names of these players.

    The Left is trying to change our national sport which a century ago was baseball, but is now Football to soccer. They want to raise interest create good feelings and team spirit so they can replace highschool and college football with soccer.

    Her actions just set that movement back years…. which is good.

  75. “Part of what this team was supposed to accomplish was to create an interest in the sport instead it was turned off in the majority of pubs across America and she pissed off half the country…. yeah great way to promote a sport.”

    There are 9 professional women’s soccer clubs in the United States. In the nine counties that those teams exist in Donald Trump won 0 of them. Hilary Clinton won 9 of them (even Salt Lake City). Trump averaged 29.9% of the vote in the nine counties where there are women’s soccer clubs.

    Pissing off Trump, and his cult, probably won’t harm them too much.

  76. No Seamus he has taken Trips and done them in secret…. if you can’t tell the difference then you’re beyond help.

  77. What secret? You know about them. I know about them. Some secret.

  78. You prove my point all in Democrat anti-football strongholds.

    Ask the person on the Street to name one of those teams no one would be able to tell you the name of the teams or a single player….. that says it all.

  79. Seamus, on July 8th, 2019 at 4:05 PM Said:
    What secret? You know about them. I know about them. Some secret.

    Yeah because it got exposed by Tom Fitton of Judicial Watch wanting to know why Kerry hasn’t been charged with the Logan Act like Gen Flynn was….. you’re really lacking info on all this aren’t you ?

    Better read deeper than the talking points.

  80. // soccer has a massive following outside the US inside the US it has zilch//

    I read a very surprising statistic yesterday, 3 out of 4 of the world’s women playing football/soccer in a club are in the US. With 75 pc of all players in the world, it’s surprising they ever lose.

    I’ll post the exact numbers and source later, no time now.

  81. //There are 9 professional women’s soccer clubs in the United States. In the nine counties that those teams exist in Donald Trump won 0 of them. Hilary Clinton won 9 of them (even Salt Lake City). Trump averaged 29.9% of the vote in the nine counties where there are women’s soccer clubs.//

    Bejapers, Seamus, where DO you get your statistics!!

    (But did Sarah Palin not once famously say she was “a Soccer mom”?. But maybe a Soccer Mom means something different in the American demographic)

  82. “You prove my point all in Democrat anti-football strongholds.”

    Yip, no football played in Houston, New Jersey, Seattle, DC/Baltimore, Chicago.

    Over half the teams in the NWSL are a stone’s throw away of an NFL team. Four of those NFL teams made the playoffs last year so they aren’t exactly anti-football strongholds either.

    “Yeah because it got exposed by Tom Fitton of Judicial Watch wanting to know why Kerry hasn’t been charged with the Logan Act like Gen Flynn was….. you’re really lacking info on all this aren’t you ?”

    Flynn wasn’t charged under the Logan Act. And if it was exposed then the details were there. The government most likely had the details (I imagine it is hard for a former Secretary of State to fly under the radar). So they weren’t “secret”.

  83. “Bejapers, Seamus, where DO you get your statistics!!”

    In terms of that I put it together myself. Got a list of the 9 teams, their locations and put it together. US Presidential elections are broken down by county.

  84. I think Palin said hockey mom, and that the only difference between a hockey mom and a pit bull was lipstick.

  85. Ok Seamus America’s favorite Sport is Soccer….. everybody loves it… we all have soccer team flags flying outside our houses and on our cars in support it’s the greatest game to ever hit the pitch…… lmao

    and New Jersey is not a county neither are any of the places you named……

  86. “and New Jersey is not a county neither are any of the places you named……”

    No it isn’t. But the teams are in counties (for example the Chicago team is in Cook County, as is an NFL team).

    “Ok Seamus America’s favorite Sport is Soccer….. everybody loves it… we all have soccer team flags flying outside our houses and on our cars in support it’s the greatest game to ever hit the pitch…… lmao”

    Did anyone say it was America’s favourite sport? No. So stop making shit up. You said no one supported it. That isn’t true. You said only people in anti-football places supported it. That isn’t true.

  87. no Seamus I’m trying to tell you the purpose of this team and you’re telling me I’m wrong and pointing out bullcrap as you do it.

    Soccer is considered a joke sport in the US whether anyone likes it or not. The left have a campaign that they are pushing in the schools to ban American Football and replace it with Soccer.

    This Team is supposed to create enthusiasm for the Sport…. instead it pissed half the country off.

    It failed….. and I think that’s a good thing.

  88. “no Seamus I’m trying to tell you the purpose of this team and you’re telling me I’m wrong and pointing out bullcrap as you do it.”

    I don’t need you to tell me anything (not least due to your propensity to talk nonsense and then just make shit up).

    The purpose of the team is to win. Which it did.

    “Soccer is considered a joke sport in the US whether anyone likes it or not. The left have a campaign that they are pushing in the schools to ban American Football and replace it with Soccer.”

    Something that is changing. As I said a poll suggested that soccer is the most popular sport for under 35s. And the reason why “the left” are pushing for American Football to be banned in schools is due to the horrific consequences of the game vis a vis head injuries. You sit and complain about people being in a bubble. Well it would seem that you are the one in a bubble and can’t comprehend people that are outside of you and your worldview.

  89. Ok Seamus…..

    America is a TV culture everything is on TV.

    American Football, Basketball, Hockey, Baseball, Plus the college teams of all those sports have TV contracts…..

    You can’t find a single american soccer game on TV without buying it as ppv. Yes the rest of the world loves soccer….. no one here can tell you a single american player in the sport.

    This teams job was to help change that, it failed

  90. Speaking of sports injuries in schools. Young girls have 10 times the ACL (knee) tears than boys of a similar age due to soccer. At that age, their knees aren’t developed yet.

  91. “America is a TV culture everything is on TV.”

    And most media managers are not under 35. So the people who decide what goes on TV don’t watch soccer.

    “This teams job was to help change that, it failed”

    The team’s job was to win. It won.

  92. I don’t think it is an age thing. Even in professional leagues women are nearly 8 times as likely to tear their cruciate ligaments.

  93. You see girls with those knee injuries all the time.

    Seamus

    The same types of arguments were made in the seventies, when soccer was supposed to be the huge emerging sport, when the Pele led NY Cosmos who filled the 80,000 seats at Giants Stadium every match.

    The sport has gone far backwards since then.

    It remains a ” foreign ” sport, one that kids play and which they grow out of.

    As mentioned before, there are two very popular sports call in radio stations in NY, WFAN ( the king ) and ESPN radio. There are exceptionally few fans who call in to discuss soccer.

    Here, the calls throughout the year would be baseball, football, basketball, ice hockey, in that order, followed by the odd call about golf around Masters time. In Alabama, college football would be number one, NFL number two, etc.

    The World Cup that was based in the US in 1994 actually set the game back here tremendously. The final match was a scoreless tie, settled by penalty kicks if I recall correctly. ” What kind of ridiculous sport is this, to end with no scoring and to be settled on what is not much more than a game of chance ” was a common reaction among fans who gave it a chance.

    In most of the world, there are few other sports. In the US, that is not the case. Twenty years from now, they’ll be saying how soccer will be a big thing in the US any day now.

  94. I’m not making any predictions that soccer is going to displant or even join the big four. Merely saying that it is relatively more popular with younger people than it is with older people (and if that sticks then it will be a bigger sport in 20 years time). There is also a demographic thing (it is a huge deal in central and southern America – and as such is still a big thing in latino communities in the US). It is estimated by 2060 that they will make up nearly a 3rd of the US population.

    So amongst traditional sports fans in the United States soccer isn’t taking hold. But it probably is punching above its weight with everyone else.

  95. Soccer has a long history in the US.

    I learn from the great wiki that Glasgow Celtic played the ” Brooklyn Wanderers ” at Ebbets Field in 1931.

  96. //In most of the world, there are few other sports.//

    Eh? Football is by far the most popular game in Britain, where they have rugby, cricket and 100 other games.

    Australia is a related case. There they have Aussie Rules, rugby league, rugby union, soccer, cricket etc. Soccer was on the way up in Australia until recently at least, but now seems to be somewhat in the doldrums. A phenomenon it shares with the US is the amount of immigration from soccer-fanatic countries, which was a big driver of soccer in AUS and led to ethnic teams all over the country. The US on the other hand doesn’t seem to have many players with a recent immigrant background, for some reason.

    A major problem for Aussie soccer is that it doesn’t have an interesting international environment to play in. I heard the qualifiers for the last WC in Russia included for AUS too many boring games against places like Syria and Thailand that turned a lot of people off.

  97. The only sport I see on the telly in a London pub is soccer!

    I believe that there is a local law punishable by jail time for putting any other sports on.

  98. The Left is trying to change our national sport which a century ago was baseball, but is now Football to soccer. They want to raise interest create good feelings and team spirit so they can replace highschool and college football with soccer

    OMFG!! Did you really say that?

    There’s a political agenda to soccer in the US and it’s being pushed from ‘the left?’ Are you channelling Pete Moore from Aberdeen?

    I really can’t wait to hear the explanation behind this.

    The team’s job was to win an international tournament which they did

    That’s the job of the team Pat, not to ‘promote the country’ or make people ‘feel good’. They have the same job as the other teams in the tournament.

    Other than the Rapinoe no one knows the names of these players.

    I think that Alex Morgan is somewhat of a fine filly myself but at least we’re now off Rapinoe’s artificial ‘disrespect’

    In most of the world, there are few other sports.

    I don’t think that’s the case at all Phantom.

  99. OMFG!! Did you really say that?

    There’s a political agenda to soccer in the US and it’s being pushed from ‘the left?

    You see this is one of the subtleties about the US that you don’t get…. yes I said that, because it’s true Paul.

    Soccer has always been a sport in our schools. It has always been for the athletic kids who didn’t play baseball and couldn’t handle the physical aspects of football. For the past decade the left have been attacking football, and trying to supplant it at the local school level with Soccer.

    There is a heavy political agenda that goes with it.

  100. There is a heavy political agenda that goes with it.

    I really can’t wait to hear the explanation behind this

    The floor’s yours Pat.

  101. Very many parents won’t let their sons play gridiron football now, out of well founded fears of brain damage and other severe physical damage.

    There’s a decrease in youth participation because of that.

    Soccer has some of the same dangers as respect brain damage, but its not nearly as bad as gridiron football.

  102. The “left” don’t want kids to be brain damaged. I guess that means the “right” wants them to be brain damaged – probably the easiest way to get them to vote Republican.

  103. Ouch

  104. For the past decade the left have been attacking football, and trying to supplant it at the local school level with Soccer…. that is the floor Paul.

    Football is a male aggressive sport, it promotes toxic masculinity, violence, and it causes booboo’s children can actually get hurt playing it.

    What other explanation do you need? Football is the posterchild for everything the left hates about my country if you think this isn’t political I once again have to repeat myself. There are major pieces of the American psyche that you are either missing or just don’t understand.

    Everything is political.

  105. Chronic traumatic encephalopathy, which as been linked to early onset dementia, parkison’s, suicide and murder, is now a “booboo”?

  106. https://www.espn.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/8830344/study-junior-seau-brain-shows-chronic-brain-damage-found-other-nfl-football-players

  107. Pat, I think that’s probably one of the more insane, baseless ‘explanations’ you’ve offered.

    Are the ‘left’ in the US also attacking boxing, MMA, Muay Thai, Judo, Karate etc?

    Isn’t it strange that in Commie Europe we have all thses sports as well as hurling, gaelic football and rugby?

  108. Seamus, on July 8th, 2019 at 9:29 PM Said:
    Chronic traumatic encephalopathy, which as been linked to early onset dementia, parkison’s, suicide and murder, is now a “booboo”?

    Yes it is boo freakin hoo

    lol think for a minute Seamus you’re arguing “worriness” over childhood injuries with someone who has played with his first loaded gun at the age of 6….. Do you know what the number on sport outside of school that both girls and boys are enrolled in ? Karate of one type or another. Every year two or three children break their necks playing highschool football. It’s a tragedy, but so is getting hit by a car.

    Humans take risks and push themselves to their physical limits. Sometimes they break doing it, but we still encourage ourselves and our children to compete. The left want to change human nature. They think they can talk away and train away the aggression. These are the same people who when they change their childs diapers and it has a penis or a vagina aren’t sure if that means ones a boy and ones a girl.

    We understand the rest of the world loves Soccer. It’s a good game, but in the US soccer has always been the game that the parents that had an athletic child but were petrified of little johnny getting hurt they put their child in soccer and it was always “safe” for the girls.

  109. The left want to change human nature. They think they can talk away and train away the aggression.

    Are the ‘left’ in the US also attacking boxing, MMA, Muay Thai, Judo, Karate etc?

    Isn’t it strange that in Commie Europe we have all thses sports as well as hurling, gaelic football and rugby?

    I’m afraid your claims just don’t compute Pat.

  110. Amid the steady drip of revelations about harmful effects of concussions and sub-concussive hits, many parents are keeping their sons away from tackle football as a safety precaution. In September, Boston University’s Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy Center released a particularly scary study that found playing tackle football before age 12 doubled the risk of behavioral problems and tripled the risk of depression later in life.

    In the last 16 years, the youth football participation rate in Texas has declined by 25%. In Texas.

    https://www.texasmonthly.com/articles/texas-high-school-football/

  111. “lol think for a minute Seamus you’re arguing “worriness” over childhood injuries with someone who has played with his first loaded gun at the age of 6”

    That’s not a good thing. That’s appalling parenting if that is true. If that is actually true that your parents let you play with a loaded gun at the age of 6 then they were bad parents.

    “Every year two or three children break their necks playing highschool football. It’s a tragedy, but so is getting hit by a car.”

    Yes but if you can make it rarer then you should. Simply saying c’est la vie isn’t enough.

  112. In Texas, high school football is a religion.

    A side note. My 30 year old step son hit an IED while on patrol in Afghanistan. He suffered a concussion, thank God nothing worse. He would not accept his Purple Heart, because he said he had worse concussions playing football in Texas.

  113. Paul McMahon, on July 8th, 2019 at 9:31 PM Said:
    Pat, I think that’s probably one of the more insane, baseless ‘explanations’ you’ve offered.

    Are the ‘left’ in the US also attacking boxing, MMA, Muay Thai, Judo, Karate etc?

    Isn’t it strange that in Commie Europe we have all thses sports as well as hurling, gaelic football and rugby?

    lol… one of the more insane, baseless ‘explanations’ you’ve offered…. thank you, high praise indeed. I stand by everything I said.

    Are the ‘left’ in the US also attacking boxing, MMA, Muay Thai, Judo, Karate etc? those sports are not school sports. This is ALL based in the public school arena of politics.

    Isn’t it strange that in Commie Europe we have all thses sports as well as hurling, gaelic football and rugby? once again you’re lack of understanding the american cultural issue…. we couldn’t careless what anyone else does or doesn’t do this is an internal issue.

    Rapinoe for her fifteen minutes of fame and glory hurt her future earning potential. Hurt the LGBT community by proving they can’t control themselves, and hurt soccer by labeling it as a sport for those who hate America…… She F’d up.

  114. A side note. My 30 year old step son hit an IED while on patrol in Afghanistan. He suffered a concussion, thank God nothing worse. He would not accept his Purple Heart, because he said he had worse concussions playing football in Texas.

    prayers Charles

  115. Baseketball (the people who make South Park) did a fantastic critique of American sports:

    “Soon it was commonplace for entire teams to change in search of greater profits. The Minneapolis Lakers moved to Los Angeles, where there are no lakes. The Oilers moved to Tennessee, where there’s no oil. The Jazz moved to Salt Lake City where they don’t allow music. The Oakland Raiders moved to L.A. And then back to Oakland. No one in L.A. seemed to notice.

    The search for greener pastures went on. Continued expansion diluted the talent pool, forcing owners to recruit heavily from prisons, mental institutions, and Texas.”

  116. Thank you Patrick.

  117. Charles

    God bless.

    Someone close to me just got back from Afghanistan. I worried every day, but he was just fine.

  118. That’s not a good thing. That’s appalling parenting if that is true. If that is actually true that your parents let you play with a loaded gun at the age of 6 then they were bad parents.

    The house I grew up was filled with loaded guns, usually one or more people sitting at the kitchen table was wearing one. At 6 I was taken to the range and received my first live fire safety lesson with a .22. That’s what I mean by “Playing” with a gun when I was six.

    Now my own girls didn’t get that lesson until they were 12 and 10 because my guns have always been kept in safes.

  119. Thanks Phantom. We all need to remember that we still have young people in harm’s way every day.

    recruit heavily from prisons, mental institutions, and Texas.”

    You’d have to be a local to take that as a compliment, lol.

  120. 😉

  121. Once again you’re lack of understanding the American cultural issue…. we couldn’t careless what anyone else does or doesn’t do this is an internal issue

    I suspected that this would have come down to what such things US come down to with you Pat, very light of verifiable facts and very heavy on ‘I know because I’m an American’

    Of course what you don’t explain is why the ‘left’ in America haven’t been attacking ice hockey, wrestling, boxing, MMA, Muay Thai, Judo, Karate etc for the same reason.

    We in Commie Europe have all these and more, why are the ‘left’ not attacking them here?

    I mean, who’da thought the American Medical Association as the ‘left?’I think your claim is baseless nonsense.

    Rapinoe for her fifteen minutes of fame and glory hurt her future earning potential. Hurt the LGBT community by proving they can’t control themselves, and hurt soccer by labeling it as a sport for those who hate America

    I don’t think she done or said any of that. And you still haven’t explain the ‘disrespect’ she showed to America.

  122. Paul, both Pat and I have explained the disrespect thing. You can choose not to believe the evidence, but that is a separate issue.

  123. Charles, you said it was the hand on heart national anthem thing. I linked to a superbowl video of the SSB and a shot live from US Forces Afghanistan where the vast majority of US combat soldiers are standing respectfully but without hand on heart.

    Bar the good point of the team being bad sport (wo)men to other teams I can’t see any other allegations on this thread, which makes me think that it’s contrived offence, probably because she pissed off the petulant President. If you’d like to draw my attention to them I’ll have a look at them.

  124. The soldiers were standing at attention, something you may have missed. That would preclude hand on heart, which is a civilian show of patriotism.

    None so blind Paul! 🙂

  125. I suspected that this would have come down to what such things US come down to with you Pat, very light of verifiable facts and very heavy on ‘I know because I’m an American’

    Of course what you don’t explain is why the ‘left’ in America haven’t been attacking ice hockey, wrestling, boxing, MMA, Muay Thai, Judo, Karate etc for the same reason.

    I do understand things about America because I’m American that you just can’t Paul. Just as there are things about Ireland and Spain that you would understand that as an outsider I never could.

    Both Charles and I have told you you’ve missed the mark.

    As for those other sports….. the answer is once again… THEY ARE NOT SPORTS PLAYED IN OUR SCHOOLS….. Soccer and Football are.

  126. There is then the numerous times that other people, both spectators and players, have not had their hand on their heart during the US national anthem. I also put up a link to a video during the US national anthem and many of the players (without comment on patriotism from anyone) not having their hand on their heart.

  127. Some of the soldiers were standing with their hand on heart. Does that make them civillians?

    And besides, the ASF states that players must stand for the NA. The only faux offence I can see here is that Rapinoe wasn’t respecectful in the way others wanted her to be. That isn’t ‘disrespect’ and I suspect the real reason for the contrived outrage was the petulant President winding things up.

  128. Seamus, you are well aware of the kaepernick effect in US football. None of the black players had hand on heart, but many white players did. I’m saying that as an American football fan, I find it disrespectful.

  129. Ice hockey is played in many high schools and colleges in the northeast and midwest. Not as big as other sports, but it’s a lot.

    http://highschoolsports.nj.com/news/article/6512072379390403859/the-final-50-njcoms-2018-19-year-end-high-school-ice-hockey-rankings/

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_school_ice_hockey_in_Pennsylvania

  130. THEY ARE NOT SPORTS PLAYED IN OUR SCHOOLS….. Soccer and Football are.

    I mean, who’da thought the American Medical Association as the ‘left?

    I suspect tha people are now realising that American Football can be injurious for their kids and there’s maybe more concern about it and right wing America has concocted some fantasy about the ‘left’ attacking America with it.

  131. Charles,

    Here is the US anthem in Superbowl 44. It occurred before Colin Kaepernick was even drafted. Many of the players don’t have their hands on hearts.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrbitY9fX5A

  132. Some of the soldiers were standing with their hand on heart.

    I doubt it. The video I saw had them at Attention. I worked for the Army and am attuned to such things.

    Phantom and Patrick were in the service. Did you guys ever place hand on heart. I doubt it, b/c it’s a civilian gesture.

  133. Seamus, you are well aware of the kaepernick effect in US football

    And the US servicemen in Afghanistan Charles?

    I’m saying that as an American football fan, I find it disrespectful.

    So, the cause of the offence was Rapinoe not being respectful in the way you subjectively wanted her to be?

  134. Football players are much bigger and faster than they were 50-75 years ago, and the protective gear doesn’t do a good job of protecting.

    The protective gear may have actually made things worse, but letting people think that they’d be safe from shattering collisions from 325 pound tacklers running into you with all their might.

  135. “And the US servicemen in Afghanistan Charles?”

    To be fair Paul I think the US Flag Code does draw distinction between civilian and military. Civilians are supposed, according to the flag code, to put their hand on heart while military either stand to attention or salute.

  136. Seamus, thank you for posting that as it proves my point. Whites (and some blacks) hands on hearts, blacks (for the most part didn’t) and the solders were at attention.

    I don’t want to (continue) to whip this dead horse, but only to point out to Paul that we have attempted to answer his question.

  137. So, the cause of the offence was Rapinoe not being respectful in the way you subjectively wanted her to be?

    Yes, me and I venture to say many other Americans.

  138. I doubt it. The video I saw had them at Attention

    Don’t doubt it. Here’s the video, at 1.41 look at the group on the left. I count at least five with hand on heart.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oU_UEVp2ynU

    Civilians are supposed, according to the flag code, to put their hand on heart

    The American Soccer Federation says differently.

  139. My point is that it isn’t a Kaepernick thing. And there has never been controversy in the past about an athlete not putting their hand on their heart during the US national anthem despite it being relatively widely practiced.

    “And the US servicemen in Afghanistan Charles?”

    I had a look at the link you posted earlier. The only ones with their hands on heart seem to be non-uniformed.

    https://i.ibb.co/W0MV1w6/Us-Anthem.png

  140. Many civilians don’t put hand over heart when the anthem is played say at sports events.

    They very often stand at attention respectfully, which is completely fine.

  141. “The American Soccer Federation says differently.”

    The Flag Code is set by the US government, not the United States Soccer Federation. The flag code says it. It is unenforceable (ie the government can’t make you do it). It is more of a best practice guide.

  142. Yes, me and I venture to say many other Americans.

    That’s fair enough. That’s the subjective opinion I was looking for.

    From what I’ve read here tonight and what I’ve read around on the subject I think a huge mountain has been made out of a molehill of the affair.

  143. The flag code says it. It is unenforceable (ie the government can’t make you do it). It is more of a best practice guide.

    That might explain why some of the US Armed Forces in Afghanistan has their hand on their hearts then.

  144. “That might explain why some of the US Armed Forces in Afghanistan has their hand on their hearts then.”

    Again to be fair the only ones who did are non-uniformed (ie most likely not military).

    https://i.ibb.co/W0MV1w6/Us-Anthem.png

  145. The only ones with their hands on heart seem to be non-uniformed.

    Yes.

    That’s fair enough. That’s the subjective opinion I was looking for.

    A win-win!

  146. Again to be fair the only ones who did are non-uniformed (ie most likely not military).

    It’s clearly labelled ‘US Forces in Afghanistan’. I’ll stick with what we know rather than speculation.

    Now, I’m away back to watch Lilyhammer.

  147. “It’s clearly labelled ‘US Forces in Afghanistan’. I’ll stick with what we know rather than speculation.”

    We will stick with what we now. In the “US Forces in Afghanistan” the uniformed people stood to attention and the non-uniformed people put their hands on their hearts. That is what we know. You don’t know that the non-uniformed people are US military. The majority of the people in it are.

  148. “Now, I’m away back to watch Lilyhammer.”

    Is that where Sil went after he woke from his coma?

  149. You don’t know that the non-uniformed people are US military

    Yet you are speculating that they’re most likely not?

    Is that where Sil went after he woke from his coma?

    Yes, it’s pretty surreal but highly reccommended

  150. “Yet you are speculating that they’re most likely not?”

    They are one of two things. They are either non-military personnel or they are military personnel out of uniform. Either way they are distinct from the military personnel in uniform.

  151. Seamus, you’re a gentleman.

    BTW, did you draw those red circles in that picture? That’s really cool.

  152. “Seamus, you’re a gentleman.”

    Cheers Charles, likewise.

    “BTW, did you draw those red circles in that picture? That’s really cool.”

    Yeah. Took a screenshot and drew them with paint. Just to make sure we were all looking at the same thing.

  153. They are either non-military personnel or they are military personnel out of uniform. Either way they are distinct from the military personnel in uniform.

    Yes, I’ll go for the latter on account of the US Forces title. Either way the point is moot as the discussion, (at least not for me), isn’t about the flag code for civilians and military and Charles has settled the discussion (for me), above.

    Now, I’m really going back to Lilyhammer.

  154. Seamus,
    //The “left” don’t want kids to be brain damaged. I guess that means the “right” wants them to be brain damaged – probably the easiest way to get them to vote Republican.//

    Comment of the week. 😁