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A bigger threat than any Russians

By Patrick Van Roy On July 18th, 2019

62 Responses to “A bigger threat than any Russians”

  1. I thought you said two days ago that you never looked at Breitbart anymore, since the guy died

    Now you cite its report that google forced 100 trillion people to vote for Hillary Rodham

    Now that’s a fast turnaround

  2. I don’t read Breitbart but I am on twitter and when the perfect soundbite comes across my desk I don’t care where it’s from.

  3. did you play the clip?

  4. You said you weren’t on twitter didn’t you Phantom?

    Pete will put posts like this up, but says he’s not on twitter….. If you click on any tweet it gives you a specific url. Just copy and paste no matter what’s in the tweet it recreates it….

  5. I did just watch it

    I suspect that the witness, and Senator Cruz, and Breitbart, are being highly deceptive here In at least two ways

    It is said here that alphabet, the parent corporation of Google, was the largest single contributor to the Hillary Clinton campaign

    I strongly suspect That they are referring not to Contributions made by alphabet, but rather to contributions made by employees of alphabet – Which would be a completely different thing entirely

    The Witness, an individual who I’d think is unknown to all of us, Makes the remarkable claim that Google’s nefarious search Results were responsible for millions of votes going to Hillary Clinton that otherwise would’ve gone to somebody else. I doubt that very much. No one goes into Any detail at all about what these manipulated results could’ve been, Or how they could’ve changed election day results, How they could’ve changed minds I imagine that there are a number of experts who would have reached very different conclusions

  6. We’ve been talking about that election here for about 2 1/2 years,And this comment, by some unknown guy, is the first that I’ve heard saying that alphabet was the largest contributor to the Hillary campaign

  7. /they are referring not to Contributions made by alphabet, but rather to contributions made by employees of alphabet – Which would be a completely different thing entirely//

    If that’s true, then they are flat-out liars, all of them.

    But the witness doesn’t say how he arrived at the 2.6 m figure. Patrick, any ideas?

    It sounds suspiciously close to the margin in the popular vote for Clinton. My, how that wound for Trump is still smarting after all these years.

    Why did he not just say that Google forced 2,868,687 votes and be done with it.

  8. The linked video doesn’t even Identify who this so-called expert is

    This looks like flat out propaganda , Fake news ar a congressional hearing, as manipulated by Cruz

  9. This looks more like a pre-emptive exercise for the inevitable voter manipulation conspiracies that will be launched if Trump loses in 2020.

  10. Yes.

    The same ” massive illegals voting ” con that he said before and after the election, but with the ” google tricked people into voting for the Democrat ” fake news that they’re test-driving now

  11. I suspect that this site or a site like this is the source of Senator Cruz’ fake news that Alphabet gave massive contributions to the Clinton campaign

    https://www.opensecrets.org/pres16/contributors?cycle=2016&id=n00000019&src=c&type=f

    Click on the link and see that it says.

    It says that Alphabet gave $1.6 million to the HRC campaign.

    But lets see what else that report tells us

    It says that the US Department of State gave $690,000 to the campaign!!

    And that the ” US government ” gave $640,000 to the campaign

    The State Dept and the government don’t give campaign donations. Those who work for them do- and the place you are employed is a question that is asked when you make a donation.

    There is every reason to believe that Cruz is lying and this unknown fancypants expert is perjuring himself at a congressional hearing.

  12. Through their deceptive search methods they moved the popular vote 2.6 million votes

    Deceptive search methods? What does that even mean? This:

    ‘The search engine manipulation effect’
    ‘The search suggestion effect’
    ‘The answer bot effect’

    What do they even mean? This:

    Something, something, something, they are uncompetitive.

    Interestingly here’s the research psychology expert:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Epstein

    And again,

    https://ipullrank.com/dr-epstein-you-dont-understand-how-search-engines-work/

  13. I trust google and facebook as far as I can throw them, but I trust the likes of Ted Cruz even less.

    There is no reason to think that he’s telling the truthd

    I don’t think that Goldman Sachs Ted Cruz has any legitimate concern about corporate money in politics.

  14. well that was an interesting exercise

  15. The witness…. whose Name happens to be there on a giant black and white name placard right in front of him….. is Dr Robert Epstein

    Dr Robert Epstein

    Psychologist
    Robert Epstein is an American psychologist, professor, author, and journalist. He earned his Ph.D. in psychology at Harvard University in 1981, was editor in chief of Psychology Today, a visiting scholar at the University of California, San Diego, and the founder and director emeritus of the Cambridge Center for Behavioral Studies in Concord, MA.

    U.S. Senate in a hearing entitled “Google and censorship through search engines”, where he faced questions from Senators such as Senator Ted Crux (R-TX) about alleged Google discrimination against conservative views.

    Among other witnesses testifying before the Senate committee was top social scientist and former Psychology Today editor Dr. Robert Epstein, whose extensive studies reveal that Google manipulated voters in 2016 and may have swayed from 2.6 million to 10.4 million voters to vote for Hillary Clinton

    the manipulation of search results is very important. When a system is designed to give you one set answers eliminating others that is a massive power…. Information is power and one company controls the access to it all. And they have been found to give you only the results they want you to see on ANY particular subject, not just elections.

    If you don’t see the danger in that you really aren’t paying attention.

  16. Pat, I’ll link to this again:

    https://ipullrank.com/dr-epstein-you-dont-understand-how-search-engines-work/

    I understand that your educational qualifications are in the general field of computer science? I doubt you’d be presented as an expert on social science and psychology as Epstein is.

  17. Point taken but who did the writeup

    Psychology Today is the old liberal print media that you guys hate so much. Now you are saying that it gives this guy unquestioned credibility for his claims?

  18. –A prolific American psychologist, journalist, and author will soon unleash a report that he claims will bring down Google.

    Dr. Robert Epstein announced July 10 that he will soon publish “the most important article I’ve ever written, currently entitled, ‘Cutting #Google Down to Size.’” He added further that “it explains how to end Google’s worldwide monopoly on search – the source of Google’s limitless power to control humanity – permanently. Stay tuned.”–

    Your buddy talks a lot of merde.

    https://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/techwatch/alexander-hall/2019/07/11/prominent-google-critic-says-hell-launch-major-expose

  19. cool thanks Paul

    Phantom no one is saying anything of the sort….. as I said in my first comments this popped across my view I liked the soundbite and I did a quick search of who Epstein was… nothing more than that.

    As Paul states I understand computers I don’t know jack about psychology. I do know how to write an algorithm to skew your search results but that’s as far as my knowledge goes on the subject.

  20. The Alphabet company needs to be broken up is the point of the hearing.

    They could have picked a better witness.

  21. A social sciences and psychology doctorate with a gripe against Google expert isn’t in a qualified position to give ‘expert’ testimony on search engine algorithms.

    I hope Dave Alton picks up on this one.

  22. agreed

  23. The biggest problem with facebook and google and others is their role in massive private sector surveillance of users, and their selling of information that they obtain.

  24. this story isn’t tied to this one, but they feel connected on an underlying level

    “Bringing these groups together is beyond irresponsible; it is essentially conducting a hate summit at the White House,” the Southern Poverty Law Center proclaimed Monday morning regarding President Donald J. Trump’s social media summit last Thursday.

    Based off that line, you would think the president hosted KKK leader David Duke in the Rose Garden for a Sunday interview as if his opinions mattered. No, actually, that was CNN who did that in 2016, but President Trump did something far worse in the eyes of the Left — he invited citizen journalists, bloggers, and humorous people who make memes to the White House. In doing so, the president sent a loud message to America that internet pioneer Matt Drudge’s vision of the world has been all but finalized thanks to social media and the power of the internet. This has legacy media, and their allies like SPLC, terrified that they are losing their power over public discourse.

    In 1998, Drudge gave a speech before the National Press Club in Washington, D.C. in which he mapped out a future. He dreamed of a national press free of editors and beholden not to corporate masters but driven by the ever industrial spirit of the American citizen reporter.

    Back then, after taking the lead on the explosive Monica Lewinsky scandal, Drudge told the Press Club that “…clearly there is a hunger for unedited information, absent corporate considerations.”

    https://townhall.com/tipsheet/timothymeads/2019/07/15/matt-drudges-future-is-now-realized-and-that-has-legacy-media-enraged-n2550087

  25. Phantom, on July 18th, 2019 at 3:27 PM Said: Edit Comment
    The biggest problem with facebook and google and others is their role in massive private sector surveillance of users, and their selling of information that they obtain.

    The information they have on all of us is overwhelming, and it’s use unmonitored.

  26. Yes

    And people sign up to give them even more information, and they actually buy echo dot and portal devices with their own money that makes the surveillance of themselves more complete than anything that the stasi ever thought of

  27. I can’t believe people actually put Alexis or any device like it in their home.

  28. Speaking of social media manipulation and bots:

    https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-46590890

  29. ot

    Alas, the time has come to acknowledge a greater inconvenience: Turkey has, for all intents and purposes, abandoned the West.

    Erdogan’s actions now match his rhetoric. His decision to take delivery of Russian S-400 missile-defense systems is a finger in NATO’s eye: Western officials have long warned against the purchase, saying the systems could gravely compromise NATO defenses by giving Russian technicians access to vital information on the latest American and European fighter aircraft. Turkey has also escalated tensions with Europe by sending natural-gas exploration vessels into the eastern Mediterranean waters claimed by Cyprus.

    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/turkey-abandoned-west-good-riddance-033001988.html

  30. True story

    I will leave some details out but

    I recently heard an impeccable account of a US college student who had an Alexa / Echo in his/her dorm room

    He/she were drunk / high and said some crazy things with visiting friends ( no details ) in a spirit of college student mockery and silliness – not to be taken seriously by anyone with a brain

    The comments were printed out and shared by some idiot and found to be in violation of a university policy.

    Two or three of the students were suspended for a term. As part of the university kangaroo court, phone and Alexa records were reviewed.

    Silly comments were made, the students had documented the file against themselves.

    Never, never allow one of these devices anywhere near you or yours.

  31. Amen

  32. Patrick Van Roy,

    I can’t believe people actually put Alexis or any device like it in their home.

    I George Orwell’s novel 1984, an oppressed population living in fear under a totalitarian and repressive government were forced to have viewscreens installed in their homes that could never be turned off and were always watching and listening.

    In 2019 the world population, willingly and happily pays for and carries all manner of devices, fitted with cameras, microphones and sophisticated tracking software, that can be accessed by governments, companies and hackers from anywhere in the world.

    George didn’t see that one coming.

  33. Alas, the time has come to acknowledge a greater inconvenience: Turkey has, for all intents and purposes, abandoned the West

    Really?

    Some here say ninety four squillion gazillion dillion of them are joining the EU, (that was pre 23rd of June 2016 of course).

    George didn’t see that one coming.

    Spot on Dave. Surveillance is so much easier when sold as a conveniant social status.

  34. Friendly fascism.

    Zuckerberg is your friend.

  35. Paul McMahon, Patrick

    I hope Dave Alton picks up on this one.

    Agreed.

    I’ve actually had this conversation on ATW a few times before. Allan and David Vance both asserted that google was manipulating results if you searched for; ‘Black and White couple.’ Total nonsense of course, but even though I linked to multiple websites where experts explained why these results occur, I didn’t manage to change their minds.
    I must admit, I was surprised David Vance is a conspiracy theorist.

    Every time Google gets accused of manipulating results my answer is the same, where is the evidence? It’s certainly possible for results to be manipulated. However, Google is open about the algorithms it uses and give free access to anyone to copy them and use them on its database. Although there are, and have been several lawsuits going against Google accusing them of manipulation of search results, as far as I know they have never been successfully proven.

  36. Paul

    Spot on Dave. Surveillance is so much easier when sold as a conveniant social status.

    Do you know they’re actually testing software now, that examines all your social media postings to not only work out your lifestyle preferences, but also your personality. Such as if you display narcissistic or sociopathic tendencies.

  37. I’ve actually had this conversation on ATW a few times before. Allan and David Vance both asserted that google was manipulating results if you searched for; ‘Black and White couple.’

    I remember it well Dave:

    Paul McMahon, on February 11th, 2018 at 10:27 PM Said:

    I can’t remember Allan, it was a discussion we had a while ago, after you, (I think), posted a photo of a number of dark skinned gentleman outside some shops with a title along the lines of ‘this is Ireland today’. I tracked down the actual town from the shops in the photo.

    Oh Jesus Dave, I wanted to check up on that and typed ‘group of black youths standing outside shop’ into Google and got this:

    https://www.google.es/search?q=Group+of+black+youths+standing+outside+shop&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwirjte_857ZAhUBHRQKHaNRDRYQ_AUICigB&biw=1366&bih=662

    Google pushing their nefarious (((agenda))) again no doubt.

    🙂

  38. I don’t care about google manipulating or not manipulating searches as a primary threat. It’s just like advertising buyer beware. If you take your time and the information was ever written or recorded it can be found. I believe like commercials manipulations of searches and such don’t influence they merely affirm notions a person is already predisposed to and is just basically reaffirming what they’ve already decided themselves.

    No my problem is with Alphabet itself. They are the most powerful company in the world and their power is based on controlling the access to knowledge. They represent an existential threat to everyone and need to be hobbled.

    As Dave points out, we are all voluntarily bugged, and in every aspect of all of our and our differing nations ventures it has never been more true…

    THERE ARE NO SECRETS

  39. Do you know they’re actually testing software now, that examines all your social media postings to not only work out your lifestyle preferences, but also your personality. Such as if you display narcissistic or sociopathic tendencies.

    That’s been going on for decades. it started with phone conversations in the 50s and has multiplied exponentially since.

    It is so prevalent today that it’s not just govts doing it. It’s now being bundled and sold to anyone who wants the information for any purpose by the tech companies.

  40. //sophisticated tracking software, that can be accessed by governments, companies and hackers from anywhere in the world.//

    Who cares? (serious question)

    There are too many people in the world.

    All this information simply tells us more and more about people’s behaviour, and the more we know, the more the pure variety of human life becomes evident. Nobody can be surprised by anything anymore, and in general that’s a good thing.
    I don’t do anything illegal, so I honestly don’t care who knows what I do, where I go, what I buy (actually, very little), what sites I visit, what emails I write and what my political views are.

    Publish and be damned.

  41. = There are too many people in the world (for this to matter, too many to be monitored).

  42. Noel

    So you would not have a problem with China type massive surveillance? And what it would lead to in a system like that ( or what it could lead to here, or there )

    https://www.businessinsider.com/china-social-credit-system-punishments-and-rewards-explained-2018-4

  43. The chinese system is a baby compared to what the US has been able to do the difference is the Chicoms use their system, we don’t.

    The only time it’s used here is if they focus on you for something. If you appear on the NSA radar for any reason. There is nothing they won’t know about you period…..

  44. They are using their system to oppress all their people, and they are using that system as a tool to help exterminate the Tibetans and Uighurs

    Omnipresent surveillance Is not consistent with a free society, It is entirely consistent with a Nazi or Communist society

  45. //So you would not have a problem with China type massive surveillance? //

    Personally I would probably benefit from a system like that, as I’m sure my behaviour is generally less blameworthy than the average. 🙂 (I see that one point leading to a negative assessment is if you post fake news on the Internet)

    But the problem here is not access to data, but the Ch government’s reaction to and use of it – grading people according to certain criteria using that to their disadvantage. Governments make laws and generally run a country, so they must obviously be guided by principles of equal opportunity. If they don’t have that principle – and the Chinese govt obviously doesn’t – then there are 100 different ways they can control/intimidate their own people.

  46. ot, but good news…..

    https://nypost.com/2019/07/17/italian-cops-and-fbi-agents-bust-19-mafia-suspects-in-joint-raids/

  47. There are 100 different ways that private companies can hurt you too. Especially if they get information on you without your knowledge, and/or if you don’t even know who they are.

    Europe is taking some leadership on this issue, the rest of the world, not so much.

    What could go wrong?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3_iLOp6IhM

  48. Marsha Blackburn from the same hearing…. 10mins

    https://twitter.com/DiamondandSilk/status/1151808835562233856

  49. Noel.
    //sophisticated tracking software, that can be accessed by governments, companies and hackers from anywhere in the world.//

    //Who cares? (serious question)//

    People who are worried about the government having so much power to monitor the population as one example.
    Do you really need me to answer this question for you?

  50. Are you comfortable with antifa / neo Nazis / jihadis to be able track any information that they choose.

    Or employers / health insurance companies / landlords / nosy neighbors / competitors

    Any information?

    Are you entirely comfortable with that? This is a society that you would want to live in?

  51. people have no idea how exposed and vulnerable they are. It is just the basic fact of life at the moment. It has coalesced to this point.

    It must be addressed and soon, but I don’t see it happening. The first step is the break up of the big three tech monsters. We can’t even address the lack of privacy until that happens.

    The 4th Amendment is very important for everyone and it might as well not exist. This can not be allowed to stand like this for long or we are screwed.

    Amendment IV
    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

  52. //People who are worried about the government having so much power to monitor the population as one example.//

    Dave, either a government obeys the law or it doesn’t. If it’s prepared to flout laws on data misuse, then that same government can also listen in on your phone calls, bug your home and to 100 other things to get at you.

    //This is a society that you would want to live in?//

    Phantom, I appreciate that there are many people – the very rich, people in certain key professions, vulnerable people, politicians, criminals, etc – who would not want that.

    I’m just saying that for most of us, or at least for me, it’s pretty unimportant in the general scheme of things, compared to other things we could worry about.

    Unless you’re a member of a group targeted by certain evil forces, such as those targeted by neo-nazis or Antifa etc, you have little or nothing to worry about, as long as you have trust in the democratic future of your country.

    It’s like being scared of surveillance cameras, etc.

    The important thing is that you live in a country where the rule of law prevails. If people abuse data or power or whatever, then the law should pursue and punish them.
    But if the state itself is prepared to commit such abuse, then it can also do much more damage with the forces and resources already at its disposal.

  53. Noel(sorry peter) I have a serious question for you.

    The important thing is that you live in a country where the rule of law prevails. If people abuse data or power or whatever, then the law should pursue and punish them.

    The US Government has the most powerful surveillance system in the world. After 9/11 this fact was made public knowledge. It is Illegal for that ability to be used on an American citizen.

    There is only one exception to that, National Security and even then before access is granted a case must be made before a special court and a special Judge with credible evidence.

    The Government of Barack Obama falsified evidence to point that surveillance at people because they didn’t like their politics…. If the Rule of Law Prevails Obama will be indicted.

    Do you believe that will happen?

  54. //Do you believe that will happen?//

    I don’t know. I don’t know if the situation really was as you describe.
    But generally, I suppose you’re right in a way: the rule of law doesn’t always prevail in the US they way it does in Europe. Your politicians, especially Presidents, seem to be allowed get away with more things than a head of government would here.

    Patrick, did you support the Patriot Act when it was made law? I seem to remember you did.

  55. yes I did and still do.

    Which is why if it turns out to have been abused as I believe it has that in the very least Comey, McCabe, Yates, and Rosenstein need to be prosecuted.

  56. But I’d never heard of ” child drag shows “. Surely this is a joke. Some parents must really, really hate their kids to have them participate in that.

    You need to get out of your bubble, and it’s not an attack because we all like our bubbles – but what’s going on is degenerate beyond Weimar…..

    https://www.thecollegefix.com/video-undercover-moms-expose-graphic-teen-pride-public-library-event-then-get-doxxed-by-antifa/

    Moms also kicked out of library via police

    Two concerned mothers who attended a recent “Teen Pride” celebration at a public library in Renton, Washington, told The College Fix that they have now been doxxed for their efforts to expose the event, which included a graphic dance by a drag queen and the distribution of other adult sex and gender materials.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7001531/Man-chopped-penis-testicles-nullo.html

    A man sliced off his own penis and testicles using an ultra-sharp ceramic knife so he could become a genitalia-free ‘nullo’ – and then kept his severed organ in the freezer until his mother threw it out.

    Trent Gates, a 23-year-old from Washington DC, removed his testicles in a DIY surgical procedure performed in his own apartment in April 2016, before chopping off his penis in a North Carolina motel room eight months later.

    The same surgeon stitched him up on both occasions.

    He told Metro: ‘They made sure I got psychiatric treatment just to make sure I was sane and that it was a good decision. ‘The therapists and the psychiatric staff said “Yeah, yeah, he’s good, he’s sane…miraculously”.

    The psychiatric staff said that the man who wanted to chop of his penis and testicles is sane

  57. Oops – wrong thread, and I have no idea how it happened

  58. Noel

    “I’m just saying that for most of us, or at least for me, it’s pretty unimportant in the general scheme of things, compared to other things we could worry about.” I agree with you. I assume there is no privacy in today’s world and live accordingly. Also there is a surfeit of information that inhibits use of it. How many total telephone conversations, total emails, total social media postings, etc. are there? The volume is overwhelming. In addition governments are not generally very competent in processing information. If government surveillance was so good there would be no spies in the world…

  59. ahhh it is actually the decimation of our human intel that helped cause a lot of this problem.

    Back in 1975-76 they held a Party and the main meal were the heads of our Intelligence operations…. The effect of this lynching was a decimation of a large number of our Human intel. Now the committee were also very upset with the fact that everyone’s phones were bugged.

    This had several unexpected consequences. It blinded us on the ground. The toll of loosing our human intel was immense at a very crucial time in history and the government made a deal with itself. That it would even though it was upset over the fact that everyone’s phones were bugged that we would put all of our eggs into the electronic surveillance division. And the structure of oversight was changed.

    As the tech got more and more complicated and society worldwide got more and more saturated with personal electronics oh well we got ya…..

    So a committee who had a party to kill intel instead just put all of eggs into electronic surveillance. This went on from 1976 till now actually. Although since 2001 we have started to rebuild our Human Intel Assets.

  60. //Also there is a surfeit of information that inhibits use of it. How many total telephone conversations, total emails, total social media postings, etc. are there?//

    Exactly. There are now more mobile phones in the world than there are people!
    Almost 9 bn, which surpasses the entire human population by more than 1 billion.

    Best of luck monitoring all that traffic, governments.

  61. Allan@Aberdeen,

    Oops – wrong thread, and I have no idea how it happened

    The Jews probably had something to do with it.

  62. Noel,

    Dave, either a government obeys the law or it doesn’t. If it’s prepared to flout laws on data misuse, then that same government can also listen in on your phone calls, bug your home and to 100 other things to get at you.

    Personally, I’m pretty agnostic when it comes to having these devices in your house. In the same way I am about technology advancements such as artificial intelligence.
    it could be great for mankind or it could be the end of it.
    However, it’s a fact this technology makes it much easier for an oppressive government to spy on its citizens. and the argument, I’ve done nothing wrong I’ve got nothing to hide is a silly one.