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“EVENING ALL”…

By David Vance On August 3rd, 2019

Ever wonder why people have lost respect for the Police?

161 Responses to ““EVENING ALL”…”

  1. Out of context this doesn’t look good.

    At the other extreme this will never be seen in the US because he would have been shot dead long before the cameras started to roll.

    But, the guy could have a mental illness which doesn’t deserve execution. Context.

    Further, do we know if he was eventually apprehended? I’d bet any odds he was. Hopefully all the officers were safe. And that’s the important thing, that they took this guy into custody with no harm to themselves, and preferably no harm to the man arrested.

    What is surprising that no officer has a taser. Surely they are fairly widespread.

  2. there is this neat device we have in the US it’s called a TASER.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4v84HtdEFWY

  3. Patrick,

    That is what happened. David’s video cuts off the ending – where the police taser the suspect.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/news/video-1186351/Shocking-moment-Police-taser-knife-wielding-man-Hackney.html

  4. So, basically, FAKE news. *sigh*

  5. Aaah the world of Twitter, where it is so easy to ‘prove’ whatever you want by posting cleverly clipped videos to accompany cleverly clipped quips.

  6. Before reading the comments, I was going to say Similar things, that the police action in the short term was actually sound

    And if they tasered the guy after this, that is also the right call

  7. David’s video quality is quite poor. A better actually shows the suspect does have a knife (but in his right hand, not his left – the large object that shows up in David’s video actually appears to be an umbrella). The police officers are all armed with batons (but they are metallic and don’t show up very well in David’s video). They originally use pepper spray on him. That doesn’t subdue him. They then use a taser on him. So they isolated him, and then went through a series of increasing options to subdue him.

    Far from what David seems to be implying this seems to be very good police work.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXHorIrLFIc

    In this video you can see the knife (and the umbrella), the CS Spray, the batons and then the taser.

  8. Yes, good police work by patient, well trained police officers

    Yes, It is very possible that in the US a badly trained police officer would have shot this individual, very possibly killing him. Who would’ve justified his action By the fact that the individual had a knife and was threatening with it

  9. Yes, It is very possible that in the US a badly trained police officer would have shot this individual, very possibly killing him. Who would’ve justified his action By the fact that the individual had a knife and was threatening with it

    The United States has the best trained police in the world…. you anti american commie

  10. There is a good chance that in the United States this man is dead. That is a bad outcome. In Europe he is alive and, given the likely circumstances, can be treated. Your “best trained” police would have a good chance of resulting in a bad outcome. Effectiveness is measured in outcomes.

  11. That’s nonsense Seamus.

    The Police in the US are the best trained in the world and deal with more violent people everyday than your cops see in a month.

  12. “The Police in the US are the best trained in the world and deal with more violent people everyday than your cops see in a month.”

    Have you any evidence that they are the best trained in the world? In terms of requirements, job training, hours trained etc…? Have you any evidence that the US has the best or is that just hyperbole on your part?

  13. 10,554,985 were arrested in 2017….. there are 350,000,000 people in the US and less than 1 million cops.

  14. And? That isn’t evidence of training. That is evidence of arrests.

  15. Patrick even if your 4:13pm claims about the amount of violence that happens in the USA Patrick is true ( which it isn’t) its not a very proud boast to make about your country is it ?

  16. There is no uniform standard for police in the United States

    There are many who are poorly trained

    There are many who wear the badge who are not fit for such a job

  17. Have you any evidence that they are the best trained in the world? In terms of requirements, job training, hours trained etc…? Have you any evidence that the US has the best or is that just hyperbole on your part?

    Yeah my family has over 100yrs of personal experience with police training in the US….. what knowledge do you have….?

  18. “Yeah my family has over 100yrs of personal experience with police training in the US….. what knowledge do you have….?”

    A lack of bias because my family doesn’t have a 100 years of personal experience with police training.

    From this it would seem that on average police training in the US takes 21 weeks:

    https://work.chron.com/long-train-cop-21366.html

    From this it would seem that in the UK it is two years.

    http://www.policecouldyou.co.uk/documents/pc-guide-brochure2835.pdf

  19. Phantom, on August 3rd, 2019 at 4:20 PM Said:
    There is no uniform standard for police in the United States

    Wrong

  20. BIAS……who me…

  21. There are very many hugely incompetent police officers out there

    It’s not a debatable point

    One good thing is that in the age of body cams other recordings and universal smart phones It’s harder for the bad cops to get away with this stuff

    The cop haters are bad. The bad cop apologists are just as bad

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=w4R9dNWxZyc

  22. Roswell Is one of the largest cities in the state of Georgia

    The incompetent and untrained cop in this video and the bad cop superior on the other end of the line Are so confident that they speak openly of the bad thing that they’re doing on a recorded line

  23. it is a debatable point….. once again you are shooting from the hip on a topic you know NOTHING about and demanding that your ill-informed OPINION be accepted as the only view….

  24. 10,554,985 were arrested in 2017….. there are 350,000,000 people in the US and less than 1 million cops.

    It’s shocking, but is that comment supposed to be a boast?

    But, at a guess I’d say there would be more arrests per population in the likes of North Korea, China or other authoritarian regimes (although the US incarcerates a shocking amount of its citizens) – would that make them better police officers?

  25. Apologies, they all have magnificent training, They all are psychologically fit for the job

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rv2YmSJ2itk

  26. These cops are very well trained also

    They didn’t do anything wrong because cops never do anything wrong

    There’s a reason why people want these guys to wear body cams

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FjsvORLYBIk

  27. There are always bad apples in every business. Just like there are salesman that take kickbacks etc

    The Police in the US are the best trained in the world.

    Between 10-20 million arrests every year and you hear about what maybe a dozen cases where a cop crossed the line.

  28. “The Police in the US are the best trained in the world.”

    Again do you have any evidence of that?

    “Between 10-20 million arrests every year and you hear about what maybe a dozen cases where a cop crossed the line.”

    In 2003 and 2007 the Law Enforcement Management and Administrative Statistics questionnaires investigation how many citizen complaints there were. Sadly they took the question out for future questionnaires.

    But there were 18,711 citizen complaints in 2003 and 22,146 complaints in 2007. Hardly a dozen.

  29. *citizen complaints of excessive force.

  30. By what metric are they the best trained in the world

    Which police professional has said that they are the best trained in the world?

    On this very thread, we’ve seen video of excellent police training paying off in the UK

    In many parts of the US, there would’ve been a very different result, due to bad employees and bad training.

  31. 18,711…… is 0.0012474 percent of 15b million arrests……. that’s a very very tiny percentage

  32. that’s .001 out of 15 million

  33. Police always used to deny any wrongdoing, and everyone believed them

    The age of universal video changes that again

    I gave three examples here

    One in Georgia, of police misconduct to a Motorist

    The second, of an idiot cop shoots a motorcyclist Who had pulled over for no reason at all

    Third, a more famous incident, Where a hepped up cop shot a law advising driver Apparently for no good reason at all. If this hadn’t been caught on the woman’s cell video This would have been covered up in some way As such events have always been covered up in the past

    Most cops are good, But there are very many who wear the badge who are completely unfit emotionally to do so.

    Substantially all of the American cops in the three incidents that I give you here are unfit to be a police officers. They all did the wrong thing.All the British officers in the videos here however are well trained, patient skilled cops

    Training matters. Because in the time of crisis, the training or lack of it kicks in.

  34. No it would be 0.0012474, or 0.12474% (if you want the percent the multiply the fraction by 100). And the FBI said there were only 13.6 million arrests in 2003. So it will be 0.138% of arrests result in a citizen complaint of excessive force. In 2007 there were 14.2 million arrests and over 22,000 complains. So 0.156%.

    That means in 2003 every 727 arrests resulted in a citizen complaint of excessive force, while in 2007 every 641 arrests resulted in a citizen complaint of excessive force. That sounds like quite a lot.

    For example the number of complaints in 2017 in the UK (actually England and Wales) were 302. This is from 700,000 arrests. So 0.043% or one every 2,314 arrests.

  35. yeah and the British Police never get excessive force complaints.

    Over 3,000 police officers being investigated for alleged …
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/over-3000-police-officers-being
    News > UK > Crime Over 3,000 police officers being investigated for alleged assault – and almost all of them are still on the beat.

    What percentage is 3000 out of number of arrests?

  36. We noticed that Patrick on this thread does not praise the excellent British police work shown, nor does he criticize the bad actions of three separate groups of US police officers in three different states

    Why, it’s as if he wasn’t paying attention to anything

  37. Excessive force wouldn’t cover all assault cases. For example between 2002 and 2003 Chicago PD, by themselves, had over 10,000 abuse complaints filed alone. So in comparing excessive force in the US I used the statistic of serious assault, rather than common assault. If I can find general assault (normally relatively minor assault) statistics by police in the United States then I will compare the two.

  38. 896,209…. arrest in GB in 2017 63,752 allegations made against the police….

    that 0.0711351927954305 percent used excessive violence….

    according to the numbers the british police have a much worse problem.

  39. The statistics in the US are for excessive force. The 63,752 allegations covered all matters of complain. 23,000 were for failure of duty. 7,965 were for impoliteness. 4,196 were for violations of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act (effectively illegal searches). 3,306 were for a lack of impartiality.

    Stop comparing chalk and cheese.

  40. The closest comparison between excessive force in the US and the UK statistics is the allegations of “serious non-sexual assault”. Which is 302. Which is why I used 302.

  41. The Metropolitan Police used force more than 12,600 times in just three months, with a disproportionate amount of incidents involving black people, new statistics have revealed.

    Data from Britain’s largest police force showed force of varying degrees was used 139 times a day in London on average, or once every 10 minutes.

    Almost 11,000 of the recorded incidents (around 87 per cent) were against men, 1,600 (13 per cent) against women and 37 against people classified by the police as transgender.

  42. Complaint statistics only tell you so much, since I would think that a number of these complaints are fake

    It’s not above a criminal to lie about such things

    And many of the law abiding who are abused or mouthed at by some cop won’t complain about it formally

  43. UK use of force includes, amonst other things, handcuffing people or holding their arm.

  44. The cops in GB and the US do a great job they deal with animals everyday.

  45. The UK Is much more civilized about such things

    Very often here, people are handcuffed who should not be

    I’ve seen it

  46. Exactly. There were 700,000 arrests in England and Wales, yet only 219,000 were handcuffed. And those 219,000 are included as uses of force.

  47. When I was a college student in upstate New York, there was a female college student who was acting erratically

    She hasn’t threatened anyone, and was not of a size to do harm to anyone

    They took her in for observation —handcuffed— even though she was not resisting or creating any problem

    How we hated seeing those sons of bitches do that

  48. Indeed. I would say there are many people, not just police officers for that matter, who can’t handle power. And when they get it it goes to their head. Why do they act in the manner that you described? Because they can. And that is enough of a reason for them.

  49. Phantom, on August 3rd, 2019 at 6:04 PM Said:
    When I was a college student in upstate New York, there was a female college student who was acting erratically

    She hasn’t threatened anyone, and was not of a size to do harm to anyone

    They took her in for observation —handcuffed— even though she was not resisting or creating any problem

    How we hated seeing those sons of bitches do tha

    So she was acting erratically and was going to the nut house….. so if they didn’t cuff her and she all of a sudden realized she would probably be committed freaks out and grabs the officers gun and starts shooting all of you who were observing you’d be the first to complain that the cops didn’t do their job and allowed all of you to be shot by a crazy person because they didn’t cuff her……

  50. Phantom, on August 3rd, 2019 at 6:04 PM Said:
    When I was a college student in upstate New York, there was a female college student who was acting erratically

    She hasn’t threatened anyone, and was not of a size to do harm to anyone

    They took her in for observation —handcuffed— even though she was not resisting or creating any problem

    How we hated seeing those sons of bitches do tha

    So she was acting erratically and was going to the nut house….. so if they didn’t cuff her and she all of a sudden realized she would probably be committed freaks out and grabs the officers gun and starts shooting all of you who were observing you’d be the first to complain that the cops didn’t do their job and allowed all of you to be shot by a crazy person because they didn’t cuff her……

  51. just a little bit of a recap of some of the insanity the cops deal with daily.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1s8IRMRwoUc

  52. Hmmm….I wonder how those cops would have dealt with this:

    https://sputniknews.com/europe/201908011076429774-german-man-killed-sword-syrian-roommate-graphic-video/

    A 28-year-old Syrian man living in Germany has stabbed his 36-year-old German-Kazakh roommate to death in broad daylight at the centre of a street in southern Stuttgart, police said in a statement. The perpetrator used a “sword-like” weapon, law enforcement reported, although some media outlets cited witnesses as seeing him armed with a machete.

    Strangely, medical authorities in cities in Sewerden are running out of blood because of the unexpected increase in vibrant stabbiness…….which nobody could have foreseen

    https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2019/07/28/swedish-city-running-low-blood-after-stabbings/

    Following a wave of serious knife crime, healthcare centres in the Swedish city of Gothenberg say they are running low on blood reserves.

    Earlier this week, healthcare professionals in the city called on residents through SMS texts to donate blood due to the shortages, which Sahlgrenska University Hospital’s Stefan Jakobsson linked to the wave of stabbings in the city, Sveriges Radio reports.

    Richard Christofferson was one of those who answered the call to donate on Tuesday and commented: “I got a text message that you should come in if you could. I do it to help others who need blood, but I also have too much iron in my body so I also need to give regularly.”

    The police in all European countries had beenn used to dealing with Europeans like themselves. Now, they need to raise their game because the ‘new Europeans’ are seriously stabby.

  53. now he would have been shot……

    here are the cops first dealing with a black 300lb linebacker and then an old white judge

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJIGrk61ng0

  54. Our turn. Mass shooting in El Paso today. 15 to 20 people shot.

    https://www.foxnews.com/us/el-paso-walmart-active-shooting-one-person-in-custody-dan-patrick

  55. I was just going to post I hope Charles isn’t shopping…..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUSmMcv9hIc

  56. Members of police forces in several countries come to the US for training. That includes police from the UK and Ireland. It is unlikely they would come to the US for training if the US had a bad record of police training.

  57. Charles

    Condolences to the people of El Paso. I read 15 to 25 causalities but the number of fatalities not yet public.

  58. Charles

    Are you familiar with that store and that area

  59. Police training here levels vary

    Ny

    Do you think that the police in the videos that I show were well chosen and well trained?

    Do you think that these videos are unfair in any way?

  60. do YOU think those videos are in any way a fair representation of America’s Police Phantom ?

    You are certainly invited to put on the Blue…. NYPD is always hiring and they are very liberal about age. I can give your name to my cousin he’ll have the recruiter call you.

  61. These police actions Which includes two unjustified police shootings Are indicative of a problem of improperly trained and badly chosen jittery asshole cops

    Who you still haven’t criticized. Wonder why.

    Maybe Castile and the motorcyclist needed to get shot

    There are Stupid jittery and untrained cops out there.

    It’s not anti-police to admit this. It’s anti police — not —to admit it

    The many bad cops are a danger to the majority that are good cups

  62. No I’ve admitted that police are human they do make mistakes and there are a couple of bad ones but I’m sorry Phantom you’re wrong these films indicate nothing they show 2 bad incidents.

    Out of 15 MILLION arrests a year you’re lucky if you can find 100 that fall into the category that you’re holding up as common…

    Once again you talk with authority about a topic that you know nothing about. And while spouting your ill-informed nonsense you are maligning the finest people our nation produce. They put their Lives on the line EVERY DAY…. a person will call them a pig and they would still step in front of that idiot to block an animal with a gun.

    It’s the Job.

  63. but this is also the Truth…..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lru1Qxc1l8

  64. Phantom, yes, I shop there occasionally. It’s on my side of town. Reports from the Gov. now says 20 dead, with many injured. The shooter is from the Dallas area and they are looking for his reason of doing this in El Paso.

    A sad day for us in this little border city!

  65. Also reports that Antifa plans to converge on El Paso in a month. They will find that Texas is not Portland as far as a lawful police response to their activities go.

  66. oh we have to watch for film of that….

    Antifa meets texicans…… lol

  67. Charles

    I’m sorry

    And I hope that antifa gets the reception that the cutthroats deserve

    I’m half tempted to take a flight down there To be part of the reception committee

    I might imagine that Texans have this one covered

  68. //And I hope that antifa gets the reception that the cutthroats deserve
    I’m half tempted to take a flight down there To be part of the reception committee.//

    Was this White Nationalist and racist with a gun who just murdered 20 innocent people in cold blood really a member of Antifa?

  69. If an immigrant or a Muslim so much as slaps a white European anywhere over here Pete Moore is out of the traps and slapping up posts on the incident as another example of “the disastrous commie destruction of Western civilisation” – But when its yet again a mass murder carried out by another in the long line of angry white males, well it’s just a routine criminal act, not worth mentioning or posting about eh ?

  70. Also reports that Antifa plans to converge on El Paso in a month.

    I suspect that the ‘Antifa’ bogeyman could never wreak the horror, violence and murder that alleged white supremicism has brought to El Paso. It’s speculated that his targets were the Hispanic population – in the absence of a wall on the US southern border I’m sure the Aberdonian believes congratulations are in order.

    Three mass shootings in the US in less than a week, twenty nine dead in two days, 15,549 people killed by guns in the United States in 2017. I wonder how the gun nuts will spin this one?

  71. Every single white nationalist – whites who believe that whites, as for all others, should have our own countries – knows that hispanics out doing their shopping are undeserving of being murdered in mass shootings. There are traitors who deserve a bullet, but it certainly isn’t ordinary folks out shopping.

  72. Obviously that particular ‘white nationalist’ didn’t believe that Hispanics shouldn’t have been shot dead in his attempt to stop the ‘invasion’

  73. Noel, I don’t think he was an Antifa member. That is another story. Here the gunman was from Allen, TX, a ritzy suburb of Dallas, probably white.

  74. I think Noel was being sarcastic Charles.

    The gunman was a suspected white supremicist angered about the ‘invasion’ by Hispanics:

    A document, apparently posted shortly before the attack and believed to have been written by the man, espoused white supremacist and racist views.

    The tract called the attack a response to “the Hispanic invasion of Texas”.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49226573

    Language not uncommon with a few ATW commentators.

  75. Well done you Trumpist MAGA supporters and “Build that wall” chanters !

  76. The fact is that if the Trumpers actually believed the “invasion” myth that they have been peddling then they’d have no problem with this guy doing what he did.

  77. This attack is a response to the Hispanic invasion of Texas. They are the instigators, not me. I am simply defending my country from cultural and ethnic replacement brought on by an invasion,” begins the screed. The manifesto includes lots of white supremacist language, such as claiming that the writer was “against race mixing.” It hardly seems a coincidence, then, that the shooting took place in El Paso, a city that is just across the border from Mexico.[…]

    Crusius’ social media accounts were all taken down relatively quickly but not before some were able to detect that he liked a lot of alt-right content. He liked tweets that had the #BuildtheWall hashtag as well as “a photo using guns to spell out ‘Trump,’ and posts from Paul Joseph Watson, a far-right Youtuber who works with Alex Jones at InfoWars,” notes the Southern Poverty Law Center.

    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/08/el-paso-suspect-shooter-trump-racist-manifesto.html

    Pretty familiar language.

  78. The Deadliest Mass Shootings In History. The largest mass shooting to ever occur was the Garissa University College Attack, in Garissa, Kenya, in 2014. 148 victims perished in the attack…….

    This guy was a kook and a democrat…. yes I know that’s the same thing…. You can’t stop crazy.

  79. Paul, thank you for the BBC link. The gunman’s “manifesto” is not being reported here. I wish our authorities would shed more light on this.

    We’re a quiet little city where all races get along. It;s telling that it was an outsider who brought this evil here.

  80. “This guy was a kook and a democrat”

    Ok now you’re are just making stuff up. The guy, as shown in his manifesto, despises the Democrats. One of the reason he wanted to murder Hispanics was out of his belief that they will all vote Democrat.

  81. The shooter in El Paso supported your man in the WH Pat.

  82. Interesting that the petulant President has condemned this as ‘an act of cowardice’ rather than what it is, an act of white supremicist terrorism.

  83. I’m sure he’ll say the shoppers were just as bad as the shooter. Both sides to blame.

  84. he was a registered democrat…..

  85. The ‘kook and democrat’

    https://images.app.goo.gl/sT72AcEuRMXcG76B7

  86. “he was a registered democrat…..”

    There is no way of knowing one way or another. The only site that names him as a Democrat is editable. Which is why he is now registered on the same site as a born again Christian Republican. Because anyone can edit it.

    The public records in Texas do not give out party registration.

    So you have no evidence to suggest that he is registered Democratic. And there is plenty of evidence to suggest he hates the Democrats.

  87. Yes Patrick, and he obviously opposed Trump’s wall building proposals and supported the Democrats softer pro immigration policies…

    Next you will be telling us he had pictures of AOC on his bedroom wall…

  88. https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2019/08/leftists-change-shooter-patrick-crusiuss-mylife-page-after-saturday-shooting-from-democrat-to-republican/

  89. The only site (Mylife) that names him as a Democrat is editable. Which is why he is now registered on the same site as a born again Christian Republican. Because anyone can edit it.

    The public records in Texas do not give out party registration.

  90. He’s floundering

  91. It also lists him, from your own link Patrick, as registered “Democrat Party”. Officially, and these are official records you are claiming to use, there is no such party as the “Democrat Party”. If he was registered Democrat, and Texas showed those records, it would be registered as “Democratic Party”.

  92. He was a registered democrat

    The registered Democrat:

    https://heavy.com/news/2019/08/patrick-crusius-social-media-trump-twitter/

    (A) heavy Hispanic population in Texas will make us a Democrat stronghold

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/03/us/el-paso-walmart-shooting.html

  93. Calling the Democratic Party “Democrat” is a Republican giveaway. I don’t know which way the nut in question leaned, but it was outside the Democrat-Republican binary.

    I utterly condemn this man’s actions, and am offended that this evil was brought into my community.

  94. Whose floundering….. before the shooting the site had him listed as a dem after it had him as a rep…. they didn’t change it the other way…. he was also according to his writings he was also in support of universal healthcare…. none of that matters though.

    What matters is the guy was nutz. Whether he was Republican or a Democrat is irrelevant. The only thing that matters was he was crazy and killed over 20 people and there is NO DOUBT who he is, and what he did.

    He needs a hearing followed by a quick public hanging. Put the scaffolding in front of El Paso city hall and Hang him.

  95. Do you think that the El Paso shooter would agree that ‘The Squad’ should ‘go back to the countries they came from’?

  96. Police in the US range from honorable and highly trained professionals to corrupt incompetents. The majority are in the first camp.
    The shootings El Paso, Dayton and whatever comes tomorrow or the next day will result in no action.

  97. It’s the Democrat Party NOT the Democratic Party….. that nonsense started during Obama… look at history Charles you’ll never find the Democrats called the Democratics in any history book.

  98. He will get death, that’s for sure.

  99. You guys are lost……

    The guy was a freaking nutjob. Anyone who writes a manifesto is nuts, in his manifesto he’s all over the place…. do you know why?

    BECAUSE HE’S FUCKING NUTZ!

    He’s not a Republican, He’s not a Democrat…. He’s a homicidal kook that just gunned down over 40 people killing half…. men woman and children…

    Just Hang Him.

    and put the hanging on every tv station live.

  100. Who’s floundering

    You are. Analysis of the shooter’s social media account and comments in my 2.59 clearly show that he was a Trump supporter.

  101. nope he’s a registered democrat…. and the proof that he is is the msm is not touting that he’s a republican…..

    I don’t flounder

  102. (A) heavy Hispanic population in Texas will make us a Democrat stronghold

    He’s obviously a Trump supporting, Hilary hating, Bernie Saunders bashing anti Democrat registered Democrat.

  103. He’s a Trump supporter. Trump has whipped up hatred and fear of Hispanic immigrants and this man did what he did because he has a President who fuels the hatred that led him to his act of mass murder.

  104. In Texas, you are actually Allowed to carry a loaded weapon in public ( really )

    Private businesses of course have the right to prevent idiots from entering their stores with guns Out in the open. Many businesses do

    But Walmart —Allows customers to enter their stores with guns out in the open—- if that is legal in that state

    So when this murderer entered the store holding a loaded rifle, that Was not against Walmart policy ( really )

    Walmart has blood on its hands. They helped to enable this guy

  105. Trump asks what to do about migrants crossing border. Rallygoer suggests ‘shoot them’, Trump replies:

    You can only get away with that in the Pan Handle

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77A9P0eZtMM&feature=youtu.be

  106. “It’s the Democrat Party NOT the Democratic Party….. that nonsense started during Obama… look at history Charles you’ll never find the Democrats called the Democratics in any history book.”

    There is no party, officially, called the Democrat Party. There never has been. So no formal papers will ever list it as the Democrat Party. So his registration as the Democrat Party is clearly a forgery, made by someone too stupid to realise their mistake.

    “nope he’s a registered democrat…. and the proof that he is is the msm is not touting that he’s a republican…..”

    Again you are making shit up. This is another one of your tinfoil hat conspiracy theories.

  107. The Dayton Ohio murder had body armor on

    There is no legitimate reason for any honest civilian to own body armor

  108. The term Democrat party was popularized by Limbaugh and Mark Levin , And by the sheep who listen to them

  109. “There is no legitimate reason for any honest civilian to own body armor”

    Indeed.

    There is no legitimate reason for most of the weaponry in the United States. Military grade weapons shouldn’t be legal anywhere in the world. Overwhelmingly there needs to be a ban on automatic and semi-automatic weapons (all self reloading weaponry). There should be legal standards that one has to meet before you can own a weapon (including gun safety classes, tests, safe securing practices etc…). It shouldn’t be easier to own a gun than a car.

    In Northern Ireland in order to own a gun you must have a legitimate reason to own one (hunter, farmer, personal protection weapon etc…). The gun must also be relevant to that legitimate reason (a farmer can own a shotgun, he can’t own an Uzi). Not everyone can have a PPW either (they must have legitimate grounds for having one). There are bans in place for certain people (based on criminal record or medial information). The must pay and have inspected a proper gun cabinet for the same securing of all weapons they own. And it is also an on-going process. A person doesn’t just get a certificate for use and that is the end of it. It is a repeating process.

  110. Seamus

    You are banging your head against a brick wall. There could be a mass shooting every hour for the next hundred years and the NRA would insist there shouldn’t be any reduction in gun ownership rules,virtually every Republican and many Democrat lawmakers would refuse to stand up to the NRA and nothing will change. And the bodies will keep piling up….

  111. There’s an interesting piece over at Slugger on gun ownership in the North:

    In response to yet another mass shooting in the US, a quick note about one of the many ironies of life in Northern Ireland: we have extremely high levels of *legal* gun ownership.

    But legal gun ownership in NI is very tightly controlled. And successfully too.

    It really isn’t rocket science.

    As I understand it* applicants for a firearms certificate simply have to…

    Prove why they want a gun: Be it for agricultural reasons, target shooting at a club, clay
    pigeon shooting etc.

    Prove they are capable of being a safe owner: Including any medical issues or relevant criminal record.

    Prove they can store the gun/s safely: One of the main considerations is that a proper gun cabinet must be installed and used at all times except when the gun is being used for the reasons on its certificate

    https://sluggerotoole.com/2019/08/04/gun-control-if-even-ni-can-get-it-right/

  112. Whatever the wider constitutional issues around “ The right to bear arms “ surely the evidence is manifest and the American people and legislators regardless of party affiliation must conclude that at the very least allowing single young males to stockpiles weapons and ammunition legally is madness and must start being restricted seriously.

  113. Colm

    The big majority of Americans have long agreed on reasonable controls

    But there is a hard-core of extreme fanatics on the issue — the NRA element and worse — who have always opposed any regulation at all when it comes down to it. You present facts to them, and they never listen to any of them ;you’ve seen that on these pages for years

  114. Phantom

    If the ‘extreme fanatics’ repeatedly convince the Majority of legislators to refuse gun restrictions doesn’t that make most American lawmakers extreme fanatics too ?

  115. Colm

    It can make them bought and paid for, It can make them cowards

    Some of those who support gun control are not single issue voters. The gun nuts are. Every one of them would vote for AOC For president if she was running against a Republican who wanted some controls.

    It can’t Be overstated — like the extremists on abortion, The gun nuts vote only on one subject.There is no other issue for them. It’s all they think about.

    If you’re in a rural state, And a sizable bloc of voters only care about that issue and will vote as a bloc on it, They can overrule the majority

  116. Even In Texas, which is a way more interesting and diverse state than people think, There is over 90% support
    For background checks on -all- gun sales

    And in Texas, there is support for a gun control generally by a majority, including a big majority of those under 34 years of age

    Change will come, but there will be so many unnecessary deaths, thanks to the extremist nuts, the Alex Jones people, who fight everything to the death

    And when change does come on this , it will be a led by people from places like Texas

    https://poll.qu.edu/texas/release-detail?ReleaseID=2543

  117. Terrifying :

    https://twitter.com/NightlyPolitics/status/1158055026079629312

  118. Whoops,

    https://twitter.com/NightlyPolitics/status/1158054752808079360

  119. “nope he’s a registered democrat…. and the proof that he is is the msm is not touting that he’s a republican…..”

    Again you are making shit up. This is another one of your tinfoil hat conspiracy theories.

    other than about 100 baseball caps the only hat I own is a Fedora, there is no tinfoil in my wardrobe.

  120. Phantom, on August 4th, 2019 at 3:39 PM Said:
    The Dayton Ohio murder had body armor on

    There is no legitimate reason for any honest civilian to own body armor

    Agreed 100%

  121. Colm, on August 4th, 2019 at 3:25 PM Said:
    He’s a Trump supporter. Trump has whipped up hatred and fear of Hispanic immigrants and this man did what he did because he has a President who fuels the hatred that led him to his act of mass murder.

    That’s pure leftist propaganda there has not been an uptick in racially motivated crimes

  122. Phantom, on August 4th, 2019 at 5:09 PM Said:
    Colm

    The big majority of Americans have long agreed on reasonable controls

    But there is a hard-core of extreme fanatics on the issue — the NRA element and worse — who have always opposed any regulation at all when it comes down to it. You present facts to them, and they never listen to any of them ;you’ve seen that on these pages for years

    Fact: The more liberal meaning eased not seized the gun laws are in an area the less gun crime there is.

    https://academic.microsoft.com/paper/2319673022/citedby/search?q=More%20Guns%2C%20Less%20Crime%3A%20Understanding%20Crime%20and%20Gun-Control%20Laws&qe=RId%253D2319673022&f=&orderBy=0

  123. Patrick

    That comment was really posted as a riposte to the stock “thank you liberals “ glib nonsense that Pete Moore always posts every time an immigrant commits a violent offence.

  124. It can’t Be overstated — like the extremists on abortion, The gun nuts vote only on one subject.There is no other issue for them. It’s all they think about.

    If you’re in a rural state, And a sizable bloc of voters only care about that issue and will vote as a bloc on it, They can overrule the majority

    Look how stupid that statement is….. The gun nuts vote only on one subjectfollowed by this…. They can overrule the majority

    If they win the VOTE they ARE the majority…..

  125. Colm, on August 4th, 2019 at 6:10 PM Said:
    Patrick

    That comment was really posted as a riposte to the stock “thank you liberals “ glib nonsense that Pete Moore always posts every time an immigrant commits a violent offence.

    Sorry Colm

  126. PS , and this won’t go down well with the shamrock brigade here on ATW , I hear that the shooter in El Paso is called Patrick, and the one on Dayton is called Connor. Maybe it’s time to build a wall between the States and the Emerald Isle 😉

  127. GOD, GUNS, & GUTS…..

    That’s how this country was built, that will always be our core.

    You want to take our Guns… change the Constitution.

    good luck

  128. I saw the name of the first one…..

  129. A fervent single issue voting bloc can often have undue influence among politicians

    Ask any Democratic or Republican politician in the country, they will confirm this

  130. The Ohio murder killed with an AR 15; the assault weapon that is the preferred tool of mass murderers

  131. There’s been over 200 mass shootings in the US this year Pat:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States_in_2019

    At least 17 of them resilting in mass fatalities:

    https://abcnews.go.com/US/deadly-mass-shootings-month-2019/story?id=63449799

    What on earth would ever make you support such violent horror?

  132. Local news report: Dayton killer “was expelled from school after officials found a notebook where he reportedly wrote a list of people who he wanted to rape, kill and skin their bodies.”

    Giant, flapping red flag.

    https://dayton247now.com/news/local/dayton-police-fbi-on-scene-in-bellbrook-neighborhood-related-to-oregon-district-shooting

  133. Paul McMahon, on August 4th, 2019 at 6:40 PM Said:
    There’s been over 200 mass shootings in the US this year Pat:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States_in_2019

    At least 17 of them resilting in mass fatalities:

    https://abcnews.go.com/US/deadly-mass-shootings-month-2019/story?id=63449799

    What on earth would ever make you support such violent horror?

    Interesting way of putting that Paul….. I don’t support any of that.

    What you put up is meant to shock, but it doesn’t because I know the situation is a lot worse than your reports show. I grew up in a violent city…. I also had exposure everyday to the stories of violence that never make the press or national reports. There is a reason I carry a gun.

    90% of all violent crime and shootings other than suicide are committed by ten percent of the population. Repeat violent offenders.

    There is a very simple method to stop gun violence. Enforce the Federal Mandatory Sentencing Laws. You commit a crime and are in possession of a firearm first offense no matter your crime an additional non-parolable 5 years is tacked on to your sentence. 2nd offense 15 years third life. Those laws are on the books and would bring crime committed with a gun down to rare and inconsquential. Except using mandatory sentencing has been deemed RACIST.

  134. Phantom, on August 4th, 2019 at 6:39 PM Said:
    The Ohio murder killed with an AR 15; the assault weapon that is the preferred tool of mass murderers

    More people are killed with hammers a year than long guns.

  135. Are more people killed with hammers than with guns in the …
    https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/40808/are-more-people-killed-with-hammers
    You know, last year and the year before according to [2012] FBI statistics, more people in this country were beaten to death than were killed by long arms — so-called assault weapons — the government sought to ban…More people were killed with hammers than were killed with those guns.

    I don’t like these fact check sites but you do……

  136. for anyone interested, good article. 50yrs behind but still worth the read.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/when-battlefield-surveillance-comes-to-your-town-11564805394

  137. The discussion that you linked to says that what you say isn’t true!

  138. Patrick

    The mandatory federal sentences you speak of even if universally applied aren’t going to deter the lone nutter who intends to carry out a mass slaughter. Such indviduals are hardly going to be deterred by any sentencing, they are in a situation where they expect to die during the attack. Yes you can’t stop craziness but you can at least mitigate it by making sure young single men can’t at least legally bear arms that they have absolutely no damned need for.

  139. Patrick.

    //I don’t like these fact check sites but you do……//

    That’s probably because you don’t like inconvenient facts Patrick.

  140. Interesting way of putting that Paul….. I don’t support any of that.

    You support no limits on the availibility of the means to enable it Pat.

    What you put up is meant to shock

    It’s not. It’s a list of factual violence, fatal and non fatal, linked to the availability of guns in the US.

    90% of all violent crime and shootings other than suicide are committed by ten percent of the population. Repeat violent offenders.

    Firstly, the first link listing the some 250 cases of fatal and non fatal gun violence in the US ommit suicide. Secondly, I think you’ve completely invented your stat of 90% of all vilonent crime. The United States has the highest prison and jail population and the highest incarceration rate in the world:

    http://www.prisonstudies.org/highest-to-lowest/prison-population-total?field_region_taxonomy_tid=22

    And to suggest that repeat offenders aren’t incarcerated but left at liberty to further commit crime simply doesn’t correlate with the prison stats.

    Unless you can prvide credible links to reinforce your claims I’m afraid that Hitchens’s razor:

    What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence

    Comes into play.

  141. BTW, just on the petulant President:

    “This has been going on for years, for years and years in our country and we have to get it stopped,” he said.

    He went on to link both attacks to a “mental illness problem”, saying the gunmen were “very, very seriously mentally ill”

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49230861

    He’s still not calling El Paso what it was, mass murder as a result of white supremicist terrorism against tha ‘invasion’.

    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2854103831273024&set=p.2854103831273024&type=3&theater

    Meanwhile, 8chan, the unmoderated message board infamous for white supremicist content and where the Christchurch Mosque mutiple shooter, the Poway, California Synagogue multiple shooter and now the El Paso multiple shooter allegedly posted their intentions on has been removed by its host Cloudfare:

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/fringe-message-forum-8chan-goes-offline-after-el-paso-shooting-11564990191

    Another attack on free speech or trying to silence the right or something no doubt.

  142. Here’s the text of the ‘manifesto’ written by a 21-year-old. We’ve all been 21 and so it’s for each of to decide whether any of us, at 21, could write this which is highly accurate but beyond a 21-year-old

    https://dailystormer.name/full-text-of-alleged-manifesto-of-el-paso-shooter/

    In short, America is rotting from the inside out, and peaceful means to stop this seem to be nearly impossible. The inconvenient truth is that our leaders, both Democrat AND Republican, have been failing us for decades. They are either complacent or involved in one of the biggest betrayals of the American public in our history. The takeover of the United States government by unchecked corporations. I could write a ten page essay on all the damage these corporations have caused, but here is what is important. Due to the death of the baby boomers, the increasingly anti-immigrant rhetoric of the right and the ever increasing Hispanic population, America will soon become a one party-state. The Democrat party will own America and they know it. They have already begun the transition by pandering heavily to the Hispanic voting bloc in the 1st Democratic Debate. They intend to use open borders, free healthcare for illegals, citizenship and more to enact a political coup by importing and then legalizing millions of new voters. With policies like these, the Hispanic support for Democrats will likely become nearly unanimous in the future. The heavy Hispanic population in Texas will make us a Democrat stronghold. Losing Texas and a few other states with heavy Hispanic population to the Democrats is all it would take for them to win nearly every presidential election. Although the Republican Party is also terrible. Many factions within the Republican Party are pro-corporation. Procorporation = pro-immigration. But some factions within the Republican Party don’t prioritize corporations over our future. So the Democrats are nearly unanimous with their support of immigration while the Republicans are divided over it. At least with Republicans, the process of mass immigration and citizenship can be greatly reduced.

    Even though new migrants do the dirty work, their kids typically don’t. They want to live the American Dream which is why they get college degrees and fill higher-paying skilled positions. This is why corporations lobby for even more illegal immigration even after decades of it of happening. They need to keep replenishing the low-skilled labor pool. Even as migrant children flood skilled jobs, Corporations make this worse by lobbying for even more work visas to be issued for skilled foreign workers to come here. Recently, the senate under a REPUBLICAN administration has greatly increased the number of foreign workers that will take American jobs. Remember that both Democrats and Republicans support immigration and work visas. Corporations need to keep replenishing the labor pool for both skilled and unskilled jobs to keep wages down. So Automation is a good thing as it will eliminate the need for new migrants to fill unskilled jobs. Jobs that Americans can’t survive on anyway. Automation can and would replace millions of low-skilled jobs if immigrants were deported. This source of competition for skilled labor from immigrants and visa holders around the world has made a very difficult situation even worse for natives as they compete in the skilled job market. To compete, people have to get better credentials by spending more time in college. It used to be that a high school degree was worth something. Now a bachelor’s degree is what’s recommended to be competitive in the job market. The cost of college degrees has exploded as their value has plummeted. This has led to a generation of indebted, overqualified students filling menial, low paying and unfulfilling jobs. Of course these migrants and their children have contributed to the problem, but are not the sole cause of it.

  143. We’ve all been 21 and so it’s for each of to decide whether any of us, at 21, could write this which is highly accurate but beyond a 21-year-old

    A minor point no doubt designed to construct a ‘theory’ and attemept to shift the focus of a white supremicist gunning down twenty people in cold blood, men, woman & children, many who were Hispanic.

    Ever heard of cut and paste? My guess is that this ‘patriot’ inhabited some of the sewers of the internet where people like you dwell and constructed his intentions and reasoning for them from there.

  144. Paul – you know murderers and terrorists. Have any of them advanced beyond their simplistic Brits Out paradigm?

  145. Never mind about your incorrect ‘simplistic Brits Out paradigm’ attempting to divert from white supremicist terrorism.

    You agree that this was white supremicist multi murderer who DID think that Hispanic men, women and children out shopping deserved to die as ‘a response to the Hispanic invasion of Texas’. The language that you and others here regularly employ?

    Yes?

  146. According to the FBI homicide data, there were 15,070 reported murders in the United States in 2016, 11,004 of which were victims of murder by guns: 7,105 handgun victims, 374 rifle victims, 262 shotgun victims, and 3,263 victims of murder by a different type of gun, or by an unspecified gun. In comparison, there were 472 reported victims of murder by blunt objects.

    Please learn to read the Guns you want Banned are categorized as 374 rifle victims, a hammer is this.. 472 reported victims of murder by blunt objects.

    472 killed by Hammer…. 374 rifle victims…. I win……

  147. It says blunt objects . It doesn’t say hammer anywhere. A blunt Object can be a baseball bat , A 2 x 4, a lead pipe, A wine bottle

    And “ rifle “ isn’t “ assault rifle “ ( AR 15 )

    Your apology is accepted

  148. now in 2 hours Trump is going to address the nation about Guns…..

    You may get a negative post from me… the pre-info is he’s going to talk BackGround checks… Now if he starts spewing the liberal lie about “universal background checks” I’ll let him have it…

    Now what I would like to see is the Pa Laws adapted Nationwide. Pa has several additional categories for preventing or confiscating peoples guns. If you get a protection from abuse charge against you or you get committed for observation you lose your guns…

  149. The fact of the matter is that barring some exceptional catageories, there is no need in the US for any weapons above a small cal revolver for personal and home protection .

  150. Phantom, on August 5th, 2019 at 1:25 PM Said:
    It says blunt objects . It doesn’t say hammer anywhere. A blunt Object can be a baseball bat , A 2 x 4, a lead pipe, A wine bottle

    And “ rifle “ isn’t “ assault rifle “ ( AR 15 )

    Your apology is accepted

    Thank you for displaying that when I say you’re talking about a subject you know NOTHING about that you really don’t….

    A hammer a lead pipe a bat…. is a blunt instrument.

    An AR15, AK47, all “black guns” are categorized on police reports and in Janes as RIFLES… because that’s what they are.

    472 killed by Blunt Instrument…. 374 rifle victims….. you really have no clue what you’re talking about….as usual.

  151. PA laws are a complete disgrace

    There is no requirement for gun owners to have any training in safety or marksmanship

    Half the gun owners have no idea which End the bullet comes out of

    Universal background checks for all transfers are a must for anyone who is serious about this subject

  152. Universal background checks for all transfers are a must for anyone who is serious about this subject

    So a father who buys his kid a shotgun for his Birthday has to take his son into a gun store and pay for a background check to give his son a christmas or birthday present…. or dad dies and he had guns his surviving wife now needs to take time out burying her husband to go to a store and pay for a background check…..

    you’re a maroon

  153. Personally I agree with training. I charge $200 for a 10 hr course and 1 range session.

  154. If cost is an object, Then make private transfer background checks free

    But I don’t think that’s the real objection

    At least we agree on the training. A firearm is serious business; no one should touch one who doesn’t respect and know how to use it . The NRA has actually Opposed mandatory training requirements, Even though they offer good training courses themselves

  155. So a father who buys his kid a shotgun for his Birthday has to take his son into a gun store and pay for a background check to give his son a christmas or birthday present…. or dad dies and he had guns his surviving wife now needs to take time out burying her husband to go to a store and pay for a background check…..

    Absolutely.

    But here’s the thing I don’t get as a Euroweenie, why in the name of fuck would any father want to give their children a shotgun as a Christmas or birthday present?

    There’s something seriously wrong with a society that thinks that normal.

  156. It’s not unusual, esp in rural areas where hunting is a thing

  157. Yes, I can understand it for hunting, farming pest control etc, (which is what they are used for here) but to give one as a birthday present outside the circumstances above is bizzarre, (unless your son deals in crack).

  158. A nice rifle or a shotgun has always been a great gift for a child over the age of 16 for Christmas or a birthday. It’s very common.

    I am a firm believer in training and not just because I can make money off of it. A firearm is a tool, a deadly tool. No one should ever handle a firearm without training.

    As you say though the NRA opposes it, I am not a member of the NRA but all my Licenses to train people have to be certified by the NRA for me to have a license to train.

  159. A nice rifle or a shotgun has always been a great gift for a child over the age of 16 for Christmas or a birthday. It’s very common

    Barely more a child in their mid teens can legally own a lethal weapon yet can’t vote for the politicians than make the laws which enable them to do this?

    An absolutely foreign, alien concept in Europe and a sign the your society has its priorities confused.

  160. Barely more a child in their mid teens can legally own a lethal weapon yet can’t vote for the politicians than make the laws which enable them to do this?

    The politicians didn’t make any Law to allow this…. God gave us the right to defend ourselves, the politician keeps trying to over ride god’s will…. and that just ain’t gonna happen.

  161. I just posted my opinion on the front page.