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Epstein’s Mom

By Mahons On August 11th, 2019

There are reports of a suicide note found in Jeffrey Epstein’s cell that reads as follows:
“Dear Cruel World:
I can no longer bear the shame of what I have done and the prospect of years in prison so I will hang myself.
Signed,
Epstein’s Mom.”

No doubt this will be pointed to by those eager to promote a conspiracy theory as proof positive of that theory. Sadly, it is just my play on a running joke from Welcome Back Kotter (incidently the actor who played Juan Epstein who used to bring in fake sick notes “signed” by his mother is now dead. Maybe the Clintons killed him too.
Jeffrey Epstein was a deplorable human being whose wealth allowed him to socialize with other deplorable human beings including Bill Clinton, Woody Allen and Donald Trump. If you have money you can hang out with Tony Blair, George Mitchell, Prince Andrew, Katie Couric. Give money to Harvard and doors are opened for you. Suprised?
He apparently hung himself, cheating his victims and justice. A full investigation is warranted to see why he wasnt on a suicide watch at the time. My guess would be incompetence, not an uncommon thing among government run facilities. Most rightwingers claim incompetence saturates the government, that is until a moon landing or assassination takes place when the keystone cops morph into all powerful villians out of Marvel comics. You have to laugh.
The President’s retweeting that Epstein death was somehow caused by the Clintons was typical absurdity by him, lapped up by the nitwits who condtantly excuse his daily debasement of his office. No doubt he is uncomfortable with his own connections with Epstein. He shouldnt worry, his supporters wouldnt care even if he had maintained that relationship. Ditto to Clinton’s worshippers who seem incapable of acknowledging Bill’s sleazy nature is his core attribute.
The Federal prison in Manhattan is reportedly not the most desirous real estate to reside in in Manhattan. Accusations of giant rats, bugs, intense heat, frigid cold and inhumane conditions have been made regularly. John Gotti, El Chapo, Islamic Terrorists and Bernie Madoff all spent time there. No doubt some said “There goes the neighborhood” when Epstein arrived.
Did Epstein kill himself? Almost certainly. Should an investigation take place to confirm he did and why he was able to, absolutely. Will the ultimate factual outcome matter to the imbeciles and fakers who patrol Social Media and the internet? Absolutely not.

257 Responses to “Epstein’s Mom”

  1. // My guess would be incompetence, not an uncommon thing among government run facilities. Most rightwingers claim incompetence saturates the government, that is until a moon landing or assassination takes place when the keystone cops morph into all powerful villians out of Marvel comics.//

    Spot on.

    //The Federal prison in Manhattan is reportedly not the most desirous real estate to reside in in Manhattan. ..John Gotti, El Chapo, Islamic Terrorists and Bernie Madoff all spent time there. No doubt some said “There goes the neighborhood” when Epstein arrived.//

    🙂 Keep ’em coming, mahons.

  2. Trump actually retweeted one of those Clinton body count things?

    What a low type of imbecile he is. The true Trumpers know that Rafael Cruz whacked Epstein.

    I have a high opinion of Senator Mitchell. And I wouldn’t think that there’s anything evil about Katie Couric. I’d think that some good people fell into this orbit, not fully knowing what it was , while others ( Clinton. Trump, Dershowitz ) knew exactly what Epstein was.

  3. Trump’s retweet is a low point for me. He better hope the economy doesn’t tank. sigh..

  4. Ghislaine Maxwell is the daughter of the late British business owner who stole from pension funds.

    She was allegedly involved in grooming the underaged girls. Apple, tree.

    The FBI is all over her records at the present time.

    She might not want to make any long-term plans

  5. The type of source where such information comes from

    https://freedomoutpost.com/the-clinton-body-count-just-went-up-by-5-in-the-past-6-weeks/

  6. The access that money buys is still astounding.

  7. The defence of the narrative is……incompetence

    Yes, it wasn’t that there was malice or conspiracy: seriously, we just didn’t know that he was a suicide risk 🙂

    Now, where does Epstein’s apparent death end any investigation into the big-wigs in the black book? If anything were needed to ‘persuade’ important politicians to bomb Iran or disarm the public, the threat of exposure would do it. So let’s see what happens

  8. Yeah, it was pretty amusing reading Pete’s blog suggesting that we were all conspiracy therorists and then watch how the conspiracy thoerorists argue with the sane how it was definitively a conspiracy theory.

    For what it’s worth I believe that there’s a possibility he could have been murdered, murders sometimes happen in prison, but in all probability it was suicide. No doubt if and when an inquiry into the death establishes suicide as a result of incompetence we’ll be treated to the Deep State, hidden hand, elitists etc theories.

    Incidentally, I came across thison Netflix last night. I’m sure it’ll be right up the therorist’s street but may not fit their political narrative:

    https://www.indiewire.com/2019/08/the-family-review-netflix-1202163377/

  9. oooo oooo Mr Kotter sir…….

    Great piece Mahons, can you do us a favor though and use paragraphs an occasional “enter key” here and there…. it does make it easier on the readers eyes.

    check your keystone cop line please.

  10. What Trump retweeted was a post by Terrence K. Williams✔@w_terrence… the same black gentleman that we posted a copy of one his tweets earlier in the week.

    The post he retweeted was of Terrence ten days before Epstein’s death talking about him being Suicided the post was funny and turned out to be accurate Epstein committed suicide.

    This is the offending post

    https://twitter.com/w_terrence/status/1160355003531444224

  11. Sharyl Attkisson, in her book “The Smear”: “Everything you hear in the MSM is scripted”

  12. it;s a good book

  13. This Sharyl Attkisson?

    To determine “left” and “right,” Bolyard used a chart of media outlets assembled by Sharyl Attkisson, a former CBS correspondent who hosts the Sunday morning program “Full Measure” for Sinclair Broadcasting, a network of local stations that has taken a pro-Trump editorial stance.

    Here’s the version of the chart Bolyard linked to

    https://sharylattkisson.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Screen-Shot-2017-04-23-at-1.43.33-PM.png

    The chart is not neutral evidence supporting Trump’s point, and it labels anything not overtly conservative as “left. In the “left” category are such rigorously mainstream outlets as the Associated Press and Reuters. The three big broadcast networks — ABC, NBC, CBS — are considered “left,” as are the Washington Post and the New York Times. Other media outlets that produce a large amount of content every day, including CNN, NPR, Politico, USA Today, and CNBC, are labeled “left.”

    https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2018/aug/29/donald-trump/no-96-google-news-stories-trump-arent-left-wing-ou/

    Please note that outlets on left and right sometimes publish material that’s on the opposite side of the political spectrum, or that has no political leaning at all. The placement is based on perceived overall tone and audience. Position on the chart doesn’t necessarily imply credibility or lack thereof. Sources on far right and far left have, in many instances, produced excellent, factually correct information at times

    https://sharylattkisson.com/2018/08/media-bias-a-new-chart/

  14. politifact is a leftwing site that supports Obama the fact that they blast her work isn’t surprising since Obama had her fired, bugged her computer, home, and phones and basically tried to destroy her life…..

    So yeah this Sharyl Attkisson

    Attkisson v. Eric Holder, Department of Justice, et al …
    https://sharylattkisson.com/2017/04/attkisson-v-eric-holder-department-of-justice-et-al
    Apr 02, 2017 · Attkisson v. Eric Holder, Department of Justice, et al. April 2, 2017 by Sharyl Attkisson. 2.3K ; Many of you have asked for the status of my computer intrusion lawsuit against the federal government. On March 19, 2017, a federal judge denied the government’s motion to dismiss my computer intrusion lawsuit, and transferred the case from …

    Author: Sharyl Attkisson
    Sharyl Attkisson Previews Her Case Against Eric Holder’s DOJ
    https://townhall.com/tipsheet/cortneyobrien/2019/01/10/sharyl-atkisson-previews-her
    Jan 10, 2019 · Former CBS News reporter Sharyl Attkisson is preparing for her oral arguments in her case against the Department of Justice and the FBI. Attkisson claims her computer was compromised by DOJ agents …

    Author: Cortney O’brien
    Sharyl Attkisson Sues DOJ for $35 Million – breitbart.com
    https://www.breitbart.com/the-media/2015/01/05/former-cbs-reporter-sharyl-attkisson
    Jan 05, 2015 · Sharyl Attkisson filed a $35 million lawsuit against the Obama administration, specifically the Justice Department and the Postal Service. … even though it ultimately led to the historic congressional censure of Attorney General Eric Holder.

    Author: John Hayward

  15. Sheryl Atkison also peddles theories That vaccines being the cause of autism

    You guys are all Allan When it comes down to it

  16. Russia! Russia! Trump colluded with Russia!! Believe it!! 17 governmental agencies all agree!!

    Russia!!

  17. The DNC never denied the content of Hillary’s leaked emails.

    No one here actually denies the content of the SHareBlue letter from AVI.

    It’s just personal slander. Over and over.

  18. I never heard of “ shareblue “ until this weekend, And it’s likely that everybody else here including you only heard about them this weekend as well

    How in the world could we go about disapproving what you and CT made up?

    Could you gang up with Patrick and the imaginary Puerto Rican cop And do an investigation?

  19. No Whiner unlike you some people think and actually do it for themselves something you should try sometime.

    Just because someone agrees with someones views on one subject it does not mean they sign on to everything that person has ever said written or thought… but that is the only way you can make your argument.

    You can’t argue against the issue or the facts you’d be shown for the fool you are. Instead you look for something to discredit the messenger. She thinks vaccines gives you autism… she’s totally bonkers. So nothing she ever says is of value.

    Never mind that the woman has won more journalism awards for investigative journalism than you have toes…. The Whiner claims her to be a kook so there fore she is.

    Atkinson is a Liberal, but she is one of the last reporters that exists. Her writing is honest and she presents the facts that she has uncovered. That doesn’t mean she’s always right, and it doesn’t mean I agree with everyone of her points of view… but you have to defend your views by attacking the messengers not the message.

    ya Whiner

  20. Russia!!

  21. The cognitive dissonance in the brain of the average Lefty is obviously driving him/her crazy.

  22. Russian collusion. For 3 years. 3 years. Russian collusion.

    mind boggling.

  23. Let’s check the reactions…….

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7344837/XOXO-Hillary-Bill-scrawled-entrance-Jeffrey-Epsteins-home.html

    Bill and Hillary Clinton were all smiles in Illinois on Saturday, hours after the death of the former president’s old friend Jeffrey Epstein and the finger-pointing by conspiracy theorists that followed.

    Social media users shared images of the beaming couple – Bill in a navy suit and blue tie and his wife in a white button-up blouse and cardigan – at the Metropolis Ballroom in Arlington Heights, Illinois on Saturday afternoon

    As one sees, the Clintons are delighted. Being named a ‘conspiracy theorist’ is becoming a mark of integrity. The Irish Savant writes……

    http://irishsavant.blogspot.com/2019/08/epstein-dead-bill-and-hill-react.html

    My only comment is that the Cabal have given up even pretending. They don’t care what ordinary people think. And they’re probably right. Because nobody will do anything about this flagrant flouting of the justice system which in America and most of the West has become a sick joke. In fact it’s quite possible that they’re so contemptuous of the ordinary person’s willingness and ability to react that they’re sending out a message: Don’t even think of stepping out of line.

  24. Politifact is a leftwing site

    Yeah but this isn’t:

    Please note that outlets on left and right sometimes publish material that’s on the opposite side of the political spectrum, or that has no political leaning at all. The placement is based on perceived overall tone and audience. Position on the chart doesn’t necessarily imply credibility or lack thereof. Sources on far right and far left have, in many instances, produced excellent, factually correct information at times

    https://sharylattkisson.com/2018/08/media-bias-a-new-chart/

    Someone alleging left / right media bia based on:

    The placement is based on Perceived overall tone and audience

    and

    Position on the chart doesn’t necessarily imply credibility or lack thereof.

    Can hardly be desribed as credible nor authoritative.

  25. and as for Patty….

    It’s the samething you attack her, not what she says. The only time you ever actually fought her on an issue was the truck drivers. For years I’ve watched you and Mahons pound on her… on her not her issues…

    I don’t always agree with Patty and god knows no one always agrees with me, but Patty is a woman of integrity that I have come to respect. Where over the years I have lost respect for you, but these are just my personal feelings.

    I’ll get off now because you’re not worth getting upset over Tom.

  26. Patty has been criticized for peddling fake news

    What she posted yesterday was probably regurgitated fake news from conservative treehouse

    She has printed false stories here about a) Alleged misconduct by Puerto Rican’s in the islands greatest hour of need and b) Mexican military crossing the border

    Your fellow fraud makes things up. It’s not done in error- There are never any attempts to back up what she says, There are never any retractions when she is proven wrong

    I was wrong in the case of the Kentucky students, And I loudly and completely corrected my own account when it was proven wrong. You and Patty , who hate the truth have never done anything like that

    You support her because you are part of the same fake news movement that your President is part of

  27. I think if one struggles with the truth it is always useful to apply common sense to the question at hand.

    Puerto Rico – It has come out recently that there was widespread corruption in Puerto Rico surrounding the supplies and the money given by the US to PR after the hurricane. There are now marches in the street and govt. officials are losing their jobs. Do you think perhaps that the video that I posted of the person upset at the stockpiling of the relief supplies could possibly have been true? If not, why not?

    Jeffrey Epstein – Trump banned him from Mar a Lago. The sworn testimony of the witness that came out on Friday – before Jeffrey Epstein was killed/died – said that Trump was not involved in Jeffrey’s sex ring. Trump is on record offering any testimony required about his knowledge of all thing Jeffrey Epstein in 2011 – when the Palm Beach investigation was going on. It seems to me that Trump is in the clear with regards to Epstein.

    Jeffrey Epstein’s death – there had already been one “suicide” attempt. Epstein said someone tried to kill him. He was a high profile prisoner exposing some of the very highest and the most powerful among us as sexual predators. With his death, the case largely evaporates. Use some common sense. what happened?

    So, I’m off this site for the moment as well now.

    Enjoy your Sunday and may God bless America and God bless President Trump.

  28. “Patty has been criticized for peddling fake news
    What she posted yesterday was probably regurgitated fake news from conservative treehouse”

    What’s wrong with you? Why do you post up such negative stuff all of the time?

    Just relax a little and try to argue the issue and not the person.

  29. No one denies that Incompetence and corruption exist in Puerto Rico

    But you said You had tape of a Puerto Rican police officer who reported that truck drivers had gone on strike during the hurricane

    There was no police officer. She has not been identified, because she does not exist. The Radio station that’s she supposedly called into has never been identified

    There is zero evidence of truck drivers striking In the aftermath of the hurricane

    Do what I did in Kentucky case – admit that you were deceived and retract that post

    If you want Speak about how the Puerto Rican government has made things worse by incompetence and corruption I will very likely agree with you

  30. Just relax a little and try to argue the issue and not the person.

    Okay, let’s do that.

    The sworn testimony of the witness that came out on Friday – before Jeffrey Epstein was killed/died – said that Trump was not involved in Jeffrey’s sex ring

    It seems that there is evidence that Trump had flown to Epstein’s orgy island but I haven’t seen any compelling evidence to suggest that he took part in the orgies yet.

    However, would you agree that Trump knew of Epstein’s under age sex exploitation, tolerated it and remained friends with him?

  31. First, you’re moral superiority about the Kentucky case is silly – you had no choice but to eat some crow. Obviously, your promotion of the “smirking kid” meme was a false narrative.

    I would post up photos of recent street demos in San Juan but I don’t have the energy. Or the photos of the trucks loaded with supplies after the hurricane – not delivering – just sitting. But, again, not worth the time.
    But I know what I know and you don’t have to agree.

    btw, you do realize that this is a site for political opinion – right? That you are not a journalist and I am not a journalist?? right? do you know this?

    so posting retractions are great but somewhat silly, imo.

    I would be more impressed if you retracted an opinion instead of a news item. Like, maybe you could retract your opinion that Conservative Treehouse is a garbage web site? lol. btw, I don’t care if you ever agree with me. Post your opinion. That’s fine. I would appreciate it if you were a little less vitriolic towards my person.
    Thank you.

    and now, I really will be off.

  32. Patty only comes here rarely now to affect a smug ‘truth’ superiority, and doesn’t actually engage at all with most regulars here whom she regards with smug contempt. Perhaps it’s better for her to stay away, and I rarely say that about anyone here.

  33. “However, would you agree that Trump knew of Epstein’s under age sex exploitation, tolerated it and remained friends with him?”

    Paul, no, I would not agree. And this is for two reasons:

    1. Trump kicked Epstein out of the Mar A Lago club specifically because he was putting moves on a young girl and he learned about it.

    2. Trump called the Palm Beach AG in 2011 (I think that’s the place and date) when they investigated Epstein the first time and Trump offered any information he could provide, on record.

    Based on the two items above, my conclusion is that at the end of the day, Trump did not like Jeffrey Epstein and he felt Epstein was involved in possible criminal activities with young girls.

  34. Colm: “Patty only comes here rarely now to affect a smug ‘truth’ superiority, and doesn’t actually engage at all with most regulars here whom she regards with smug contempt. Perhaps it’s better for her to stay away, and I rarely say that about anyone here.”

    Et tu, Brutus? And here I was thinking you liked me/

    Smug contempt? Do you hear yourselves? Do you have any self awareness at all?

  35. Patty

    Your police officer Did not exist, the radio station that she called into does not exist

    Strike that you referred to never happen

    There were problems in the aftermath of the hurricane, many of them caused by the fact that truck drivers couldn’t communicate with their base, and many of them have just lost their own horse in that hurricane

    Conservative treehouse made that story up and you copied it without thinking, then Patrick believed you without thinking.

    And that’s how fake news makes its way around the world, before the truth has a chance to put his pants on Like the great man said

    Have a nice day

  36. Their own – houses-

  37. But, it’s probably true, I do think the Left have left the barn and are running around with their hair on fire.

    It’s just how I see it, Colm. The Progressive opinions are really in outer limits of sanity at this point.

    Scripted, no less.

    (Russia, anyone? )

  38. Oh well. You don’t agree, Phantom. Don’t read my comments. God knows, I don’t read yours very often.

    That goes for Colm, as well. Don’t read my stuff.

    Peace.

  39. Paul, no, I would not agree. And this is for two reasons

    Trump quoted Patty:

    Much of Epstein’s “social life” involved very young women. “I’ve known Jeff for fifteen years,” Trump said at the time. “Terrific guy. He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side.

    This is evidence that tells reasonably objective people differently.

    It shows that he had probable knowledge of Epstien’s under age sexual abuse before their business deal went bad and soured their friendship.

  40. “Did Epstein kill himself? Almost certainly.” How do you know that without an autopsy? There is no video of him in his cell. The guards did not see him do it. Are we sure there is a corpse? Many questions and few answers at this time.

    Epstein apparently had dirt on several powerful people. The public needs to be assured it was only a suicide. It also needs to be credibly explained why he was not on suicide watch.

    Trump attempts to distance himself from Epstein are understandable but unconvincing. Anybody can see Epstein and Trump are two peas in a pod, sleazy and dishonest.

  41. It’s not a matter of agreeing with anything or not

    There is it the slightest shred of evidence that backs up anything that you say

  42. Occam’s Razor, crudely put, the simplest explanation (ie the one that requires the least evidence to prove) is most likely the right one. The simplest, and thus most likely, scenario is that Epstein killed himself. In the absence of compelling evidence otherwise that should remain the default position.

  43. And then you have what I call House’s razor (after the medical TV show with Hugh Laurie): The simplest explanation is almost always that somebody screwed up.

  44. It is unimaginable that they took him off suicide watch under the circumstances

  45. For it to be murder, it would have to be one of the guards being so angry with his prisoner that he kills him (but just after further very incriminating evidence against E has emerged?), or for someone to bribe a guard to do it or for someone to sneak, force or bribe his way into the jail, somehow distract the guard and then kill E.

    All highly unlikely.

    The guy who tried to top himself a few weeks ago most likely tried again when he was unobserved and this time got lucky.

  46. “It is unimaginable that they took him off suicide watch under the circumstances”

    It is imaginable in the sense that these sort of organisations balls things up on an almost routine basis. But absolutely a full investigation into how and why he was removed from suicide watch should be the basis of any inquiry.

  47. I believe that this prison is the one that is nicknamed the Tombs

    That is an old name, one also Used by former jails in nearby locations

    It’s a grim place, Where one cell may be freezing cold with the air conditioning, and a cell nearby will be hotter than hell, It would be easy to fall into despair at such a place. Even if you were not facing a lifetime Behind bars

    A quick search shows that there Have been suicides at this facility before: So the dearly departed Epstein did not accomplish an impossible feat

  48. Correction it was not the Tombs

    It was this federal facility

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_Correctional_Center,_New_York

  49. He’s just one of thousands. In 2014 there were almost 4,000 suicides in US jails:

    https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/news/2018/jan/8/department-justice-releases-reports-prison-and-jail-deaths/

    The guy who tried to top himself a few weeks ago most likely tried again when he was unobserved and this time got lucky.

    I’d say that the most likely explanation and that incompetence, lethargy or indifference were the most likely cause of him not being observed.

  50. By all accounts a grim and soul destroying facility

    https://gothamist.com/2018/06/19/mcc_jail_human_rights_torture.php

    I guess I have seen this building, but I never paid it much mind
    https://www.bop.gov/locations/institutions/nym/

    There are a lot of prisons in this country, sometimes when traveling By train or car you’ll see a building and you’ll just know that it’s a prison. I encountered the ancient Rahway prison in NJ when on a long bike ride, I just know It was a prison. Same thing with the large Portlaoise Prison facility in Ireland. It jumped out at me as a prison when I was on a bus ride,

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Jersey_State_Prison

  51. I know an IRA prison escapee from Belfast, Joe Doherty, who was held in MCC. He said conditions weren’t good.

    Same thing with the large Portlaoise Prison facility in Ireland. It jumped out at me as a prison when I was on a bus ride

    I think prisons, as we’re used to them in Europe, are fairly easy to spot. They tend to be pretty imposing, very secure buildings. What always strch me about rhe MCC and the Metropolitan Detention Center in Brroklyn was how the seemed externally to be matter of fact urban buildings.

  52. Yes

    The MCC Could pass as a college dorm building or something

    As you would know, Joe Doherty was a very big story in the United States Back in those days

  53. Joe Doherty was an animal that they glorified……

  54. Seamus, on August 11th, 2019 at 6:37 PM Said:
    And then you have what I call House’s razor (after the medical TV show with Hugh Laurie): The simplest explanation is almost always that somebody screwed up.

    great show, perfect quote

  55. Prisons aren’t country clubs, they are cages for animals. They should be medieval, and for those in them even the cosiest of cells is medieval to their mind and spirit…. as it should be.

  56. Prisons aren’t country clubs, they are cages for animals. They should be medieval, and for those in them even the cosiest of cells is medieval to their mind and spirit…. as it should be.

  57. I completely oppose cruel conditions in prisons

  58. I know an IRA prison escapee from Belfast, Joe Doherty, who was held in MCC. He said conditions weren’t good.

    My brother was in MCC for months. He said the same thing. His cellmate was as white as a sheet and ill because he hadn’t been in the Sun or breathed fresh air for a year. My brother has been hosted in various such establishments, including the UK’s worst prison, and MCC was much worse than that.

    I called him today to ask if it’s possible to hang yourself in there. He said wouldn’t know how. The cells are 8 or 9 feet high, there no fixtures on the walls or ceilings, no bars, nothing the fashion a noose from.

    There’s nothing in the cells. If you want to write a letter you’re given a sheet of paper and a rubber pencil. He’s stumped as to how Epstein could have done,

  59. Pete

    This facility opened in 1975

    I am trying to find out if there is a record of previous suicides there in those 44 years. I can’t find any data on the subject

  60. Phantom –

    Yesterday I read a US news piece (can’t remember which one now) which quoted a former MCC staffer as saying he’s not aware of any previous suicides.

  61. This past February, a British appeals court blocked the extradition of alleged hacker Lauri Love to the United States, where he would have most likely been held at either MCC or the federal jail in Brooklyn, the Metropolitan Detention Center.

    The court determined that Love, who has been diagnosed with Asperger Syndrome and depression, would be at high risk of suicide if he were extradited, in part because of the poor mental health care available at the facilities. MDC and MCC share a single psychiatrist and each have only a handful of psychologists on staff, according to court documents, raising questions about whether the two facilities could adequately treat the nearly 500 inmates suffering from significant psychiatric illnesses.

    Gothamist, 2018

    I think we need to have a detailed discussion about the room that this guy was in

  62. Patty has established herself as a lying imbecile who won’t directly respond to questions about her absurd comments. Aside from that she is very credible.

    Pete ‘s criminal brother apparently got his degree in forensic pathology while in prison.

  63. My brother was on remand and doesn’t claim knowledge of pathology. He does know what the cell he was held in for months, by corrupt federal prosecutors, looks like. Don’t become a lawyer, Mahons. You don’t have the instincts or temperament for that.

  64. Joe Doherty was an animal that they glorified……

    How so Pat?

    There’s nothing in the cells. If you want to write a letter you’re given a sheet of paper and a rubber pencil. He’s stumped as to how Epstein could have done

    There’s been one successful suicide over twenty years ago and a few attempts:

    A review of published stories found only one such death in the past 21 years, the 1998 suicide of South Philadelphia drug kingpin Louis Turra, who reportedly hanged himself.

    A handful of suicide attempts were also reported

    https://nypost.com/2019/08/10/suicide-supposedly-nearly-impossible-at-ulta-secure-jeffrey-epstein-lockup/

  65. Pete Is being very open here

    I don’t think we Should use this openness as an opportunity to take pot shots at him or at his brother

    I have never heard Of this facility being described as anything other than cruel. And if I understand correctly, all the inmates are held awaiting trial. Many of them have not been convicted of anything

  66. I don’t think we Should use this openness as an opportunity to take pot shots at him or at his brother

    Hear, hear.

  67. My brother has been hosted in various such establishments, including the UK’s worst prison

    Just out of curiousity which one was that Pete? Belmarsh? The Scrubs?

  68. You can be held in prison awaiting deportation just for overstaying a visa, also for other things that I wouldn’t consider crimes.

  69. Paul –

    The Scrubs. It’s Cat. B (Cat. A is maximum security for the nutters) but it’s old. It’s a Victorian prison, completely rundown and unfit for any human habitation.

  70. Yeah, in Hammersmith, I know it.

    My best man at my wedding escaped out of the H Blocks in 1983, was rearrested in Glasgow in 1985 and was both there and Brixton before being one of the first into the newly opened Belmarsh HSU.

  71. yeah notice he said Mahons be nice to Pete, but not a word about being nice to Patty

    ya whiner

    (for those across the pond that is pronounced “WINE ERR”)

  72. here watch this all should enjoy

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHYEPjF6W9c

  73. this is the title of the link…..

    6 Raleigh cops vs. 1 angry man

  74. Here watch this all should enjoy

    Why would anyone enjoy watching a brutal altercation between a mentally ill man and six cops?

    Joe Doherty was an animal that they glorified……

    How so Pat?

    So?

  75. I read that there hasn’t been a suicide at the MCC for 21 years, for reasons provided by Pete. There is absolutely no evidence that Epstein is dead never mind whether suicide or murder

  76. he’s a thug and they named a street after him…..

  77. He’s a thug

    He killed an SAS Captain in a face to face gun battle between the IRA and the British Army and then shot his way out of prison in another gun battle with the British Army & RUC.

    What’s thuggish about that?

  78. He was very popular in New York City.

    He took up arms against the armed forces of a state that he saw as oppressive.

    None of the Second Amendment fanatics should ever criticize him

    He actually did what the Second Amendment crazies say they would do.

  79. Paul – surely a handgun would be sufficient for personal protection. After all, who could possibly need automatic weapons in a free country?

  80. Yeah, because the state of NI was a ‘free country’ that didn’t have thousands of armed combat soldiers and paramilitary police operating under the dracionan Special Powers Act.

    Just ask the family of Patrick Rooney:

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/he-slid-down-the-wall-blood-coming-from-his-head-the-first-child-killed-in-the-troubles-1.3983016

    Now, back under the bridge with you you ball-less Aberdonian head the ball.

  81. Good post Mahons.

    Most rightwingers claim incompetence saturates the government, that is until a moon landing or assassination takes place when the keystone cops morph into all powerful villians out of Marvel comics. You have to laugh.

    Brilliantly put mate. This is something I encounter all the time with conspiracy theorists.

    As for Epstein, based on the information that I know so far, he almost certainly committed suicide.

  82. https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/trump-official-clinton-conspiracy-theory-epstein-death-870106/

    The best and the brightest, or so they think of themselves

  83. A Trump administration official and friend of the Trump family promoted a conspiracy theory about the apparent suicide of Jeffrey Epstein, the disgraced financier and friend to the powerful who was in jail facing charges of federal sex trafficking.

    Lynne Patton, who works at the Department of Housing and Urban Development, posted a screenshot of a news story about Epstein’s reported suicide. In the caption Patton wrote, “Hillary’d!!” suggesting that Hillary Clinton had played a role in Epstein’s death. Patton also added the hashtag “#VinceFosterPartTwo” which refers to a long-running and baseless conspiracy theory about the tragic suicide of a former lawyer in Bill Clinton’s White House named Vince Foster. HUD did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

    Patton has repeatedly stirred up controversy since joining the federal government, where of course her six-figure salary is paid for by American taxpayers. Most recently, in May, Patton said she shared on both her personal and government Twitter accounts a message that was supportive of her boss, HUD Secretary Dr. Ben Carson, and critical Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-NY).

    “Just retweeted this amazing tweet from both of my Twitter accounts – professional and personal,” Patton wrote on Facebook. She said that sharing the tweet from her official government “may be a Hatch Act violation” which prohibits federal employees “from engaging in partisan political activity.” “Either way,” Patton wrote, “I honestly don’t care anymore.”

    This is what federal employees do, now that the swamp has been drained.

    “I honestly don’t care anymore.”

  84. Paul – you were free to put your views to the democratic test so I can’t understand your problem. These are the criteria that you apply to others so why not apply them to yourself?

  85. No, democracy would have been adhering to the express democratic wishes of the electorate in the last Irish election of 1919 instead of artificial partition and pretending that the new state with it’s contrived, artificial majority was ‘democratic’.

    Democracy doesn’t include a paramilitary police coming into residential areas in West Belfast in Shortland Armoured cars mounted with Browning machine guns and indescriminately shooting into residential buildings resulting in the death of two, one being a nine year old child.

  86. Breaking news 🙂

    https://genesiustimes.com/breaking-last-known-visitor-to-see-jeffrey-epstein-alive-identified/

  87. Questions for the Republican conspiracy guys here

    You are trying to pin this on the Clintons and Democrats but you may want to note

    The sweet deal that Epstein got happened under a Republican president ( GWB ) under an attorney ( Acosta ) who Trump liked so much that he made him a cabinet official

    Epstein died in a federal prison under Trump’s watch.

    I don’t connect these dots to get to any result but if the shoe was on the other foot ( sweet deal under Clinton, died in federal prison under Obama ) all you conspiracy guys would have been nodding knowingly about what a Dem conspiracy this was.

  88. /I don’t connect these dots to get to any result but if the shoe was on the other foot ( sweet deal under Clinton, died in federal prison under Obama ) all you conspiracy guys would have been nodding knowingly about what a Dem conspiracy this was.//

    That’s just one of the hundred things that they’d be screaming from the rooftops about if it had happened in Obama’s time; imagine: calling off air-strikes against Iran when the planes are in the air, new US deal with the Taleban just announced, throwing the Afgh govt under the bus on a Taleban promise that they won’t allow AQ form basis there again, two name just two recent examples.

    Your objectivity and party neutrality here are very commendable. Something we all could follow.

  89. I doubt Epstein was murdered…child molesters are cowards. That’s one reason why they choose powerless children. (The Irish connection: The Manhattan Correction Facility sits on Joe Doherty Corner. Named for Joe because he was held there for 8-9 years as his case wound its way up through the courts until reaching The Supremes.) Prisoners there are very isolated. It’s a holding facility and not meant for long-term incarceration. There is no communing. Prisoners are held in their cells for the most part for the duration of their trials. It’s a towering building in the city without any outdoor space for recreation. Prisoners are taken to the roof one by one for ‘exercise’. He was probably left alone for long periods.
    And, that’s not to say everyone who commits suicide is a coward…but this guy was taking the cowardly way out IMHO.
    The economy won’t tank Charles but it will slowdown a percentage point. I’m glad you and yours are ok.

  90. He killed an SAS Captain in a face to face gun battle between the IRA and the British Army and then shot his way out of prison in another gun battle with the British Army & RUC.

    What’s thuggish about that?

    You really don’t get it do you ?

    Paul I know and I actually do understand your support for the IRA I do really. That being said… He is a terrorist…. because that’s what the IRA are they are Terrorists and organized crime.

    He is a Thug and they Glorified him and named a street after him.

  91. Sorry—didn’t read all the comments, hence my reference to JD. Didn’t realize you were already discussing the connection. Pete, there are several different types of cells at the MCC. Perhaps your brother was in the psych unit (with all due respect, just based on your revelations above), which are cells as you describe above. Here’s an interesting article https://www.thedailybeast.com/after-his-suicide-watch-ended-jeffrey-epstein-was-left-to-look-after-himself. It doesn’t solve the mystery but you can see that it’s possible based on the type of cell the creep was in. Here’s a conspiracy: maybe he paid off the Program Coordinator who was responsible for taking him off suicide watch and putting him in a cell by himself. After all, the PD would have had to have interviewed him one-on-one before releasing him from watch a few weeks ago.

  92. Pat, he took up arms against an oppressive (foreign) power and killed a foreign special operations soldier in a face to face gun battle with the British Army.

    Later he shot his way out of jail in a gun battle with the British Army & RUC.

    wHAT’S ‘thuggish’ about that? Isn’t that exactly the sort of thing that guns guys like you advocate?

    As for ‘terrorism’ your political hero trained, armed and funded some of the most brutal terrorists in Central America with $ millions of US taxpayer’s money and you yourself have expressed supoort for the terrorists of pre WWII Irgun.

    Were they ‘thugs’ too?

  93. wHAT’S ‘thuggish’ about that? Isn’t that exactly the sort of thing that guns guys like you advocate?

    No “gun guys” don’t promote acts of terrorism and jailbreaks….. We support the LAW.

    Stop comparing the IRA to the Jews, it doesn’t help your argument. The Irish are not the Jews. My family and millions of others left Ireland because the politics and lack of opportunity and immigrated to the Promised Land. The Jews when things got bad couldn’t do that and were rounded up and gassed in ovens…. the Irish weren’t.

  94. But he took up arms against an oppressive foreign government and fought them in open gun battles?

    Isn’t that the ‘warfare’ you advocate against oppression?

    Your hero supported, trained and funded barbaric terrorists in Central America with US taxpayer’s money while you yourself have expressed supoort for pre WWII Irgun terrorism.

    Most reasonable, objective commentators would call that gross hypocrisy.

  95. The Israeli freedom fighters admired the old IRA and studied their tactics.

    Oh yes they did.

  96. For the education of some of us

    https://thebrokenelbow.com/2014/01/03/fascinating-links-between-irgun-and-ira/

    Not only were many of the Zionist military tactics in 1940’s Britain and Palestine drawn from pre-war IRA bombing campaigns in Britain but the Irgun was re-organized “on IRA lines”, according to Walton, by Robert Briscoe, father of Fianna Fail TD and Mayor of Dublin Ben Briscoe, who travelled secretly to Britain in the pre-war years to meet and advise Irgun representatives.

    Briscoe Senior, himself a Fianna Fail TD for many years, had impeccable IRA credentials. He accompanied Eamonn de Valera to the USA on a lengthy fund-raising trip during the Anglo-Irish war and also was sent by Michael Collins to Germany in 1919 to procure arms for the IRA. A former Chief of Staff of the IRA’s boy scouts, na Fianna Eireann, Eamonn Martin was Briscoe’s best man at his wedding and he hated the British, describing himself in a memoir as a self-appointed professor holding “the chair of subversive activities against England”.

    Another Irish Jew who strongly supported both Irish Republican and Zionist terrorism was Isaac Herzog, the former Chief Rabbi of Ireland who emigrated to Palestine in 1936 where he was appointed to the chief rabbinate, the most powerful clerical position in the Jewish world. MI5 kept him under close surveillance and asked the Irish police to keep tabs on Briscoe.

    He wrote in his memoirs that he elected himself “to a full Professorship with the Chair of Subversive Activities against England,” – See more at: http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2014/01/01/how_zionist_extremists_helped_create_britain_s_surveillance_state#sthash.pVEEW4Qi.eZDq2jNe.dpuf
    The idea that Zionist extremists could draw inspiration from and co-operate with a group like the IRA rather than the pro-British Unionists, and that both could happily regard Britain as their common foe, is clearly a mind-blowing

    thought for neocons.

  97. I don’t know if Joe Doherty could fairly be described as a thug. He certainly could be described as a terrorist. His extradition was legally denied on technical grounds which is why the government then sought to deport him. The level of support he got from those in the US who had a romantic view of the IRA would be unconceivable post 9/11.

  98. Indeed Phantom,

    (Yitzhak) Shamir sought to emulate the anti-British struggle of the Irish Republicans and took the nickname “Michael” after Irish Republican leader Michael Collins

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yitzhak_Shamir

    He once described himself as a great admirer of Irish Republican Army founder Michael Collins, and even took his name during the violent struggle against the British during its Palestine mandate.

    “I studied his life and was inspired by it. Like him, I wanted to chase the British from my country and create an independent state”

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/9367438/Yitzhak-Shamir-obituary.html

    What is it they say about imitation being the most sincere form of?

  99. Paul the IRA are Terrorists. Period, they did not have the support of the people or any government. They are terrorists and an organized crime organization.

    Most reasonable, objective commentators would call that gross hypocrisy.

    I am not reasonable when it comes to political violence. The Irish did it wrong.

  100. I recall that when the deportation order was given, Doherty didn’t complain, he said ” God Bless America “, and left it at that. Which went down very well over here.

  101. Yeah the cops were especially happy….

  102. The American revolutionaries didn’t have the support of the majority either.

    There were many who were loyalists to Britain, many who were neutral.

    Who are you calling George Washington a terrorist?

  103. Staten Island NY was a loyalist stronghold, then.

  104. Paul the IRA are Terrorists. Period, they did not have the support of the people or any government.

    Neither did the Contras

    Neither did Irgun

    Neither would your group of terrorists uprising in arms to overthrow the government.

    All examples of terrorism that you have, do or would support.

    You can’t tailor political violence to suit your particular narrative.

  105. https://www.enotes.com/homework-help/what-was-colonial-unity-like-during-american-246261

    Although we think of the Revolutionary War as something that all Americans were behind, it really was not that way. Only a minority of Americans were actually strong supporters of the American side in the Revolution.

    This is not to say that most Americans opposed the Revolution and wanted to stay with Britain. In fact, only about one-third of all Americans are believed to have been “Tories” or “Loyalists.” These are names for Americans who stayed on the British side.

    Instead, historians believe that about one-third of Americans were strongly in favor of revolution, one-third were Tories, and another third were relatively neutral, just wanting to get by as well as they could.

    This sounds about right
    https://www.enotes.com/homework-help/what-was-colonial-unity-like-during-american-246261

  106. Staten Island was a loyalist stronghold. I lived on the site of their old fort. The Staten Island Huguenots claimed neutrality but spied on the Brits on behalf of George and co.

  107. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huguenot,_Staten_Island

  108. The idea that Zionist extremists could draw inspiration from and co-operate with a group like the IRA rather than the pro-British Unionists, and that both could happily regard Britain as their common foe, is clearly a mind-blowing

    It shows the dissonance of the jewish mind, hating the country which was manipulated to provide the means of creating the jewish state, examples being the murder of Lord Moyne in Cairo 1944, the murder of Count Bernadotte……

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folke_Bernadotte

    Folke Bernadotte, Count of Wisborg (2 January 1895 – 17 September 1948) was a Swedish diplomat and nobleman. During World War II, he negotiated the release of about 31,000 prisoners from German concentration camps, including 450 Danish Jews from the Theresienstadt camp. They were released on 14 April 1945.[1][2][3] In 1945, he received a German surrender offer from Heinrich Himmler, though the offer was ultimately rejected.

    After the war, Bernadotte was unanimously chosen to be the United Nations Security Council mediator in the Arab–Israeli conflict of 1947–1948. He was assassinated in Jerusalem in 1948 by the paramilitary Zionist group Lehi while pursuing his official duties.

    ….and the supplying of weapons to Argentina DURING the Falklands conflict

    I see that the biggest Congressional delegation in history is in Israel to pledge allegiance to country which is not their own. This follows immediately from the Epstein business

    https://twitter.com/GOPLeader/status/1160317808774930432/photo/1

    Kevin McCarthy
    ‏Verified account @GOPLeader

    Just arrived in Israel with dozens of other members of Congress—Republican and Democrat. We are here to show unity in our support for Israel and her people.

    Let’s just put ‘anti-Semitism’ aside for a minute and ask ourselves how it can possibly make sense that our (the UK is no different) politicians are traveling to a foreign country to pledge to serve them.

    Why should our politicians be serving any foreign country? How is this justifiable?

    https://www.jns.org/in-largest-ever-delegation-72-congressmen-dont-skipthetrip-express-bipartisan-support-for-israel/

    House Minority Leader Rep. Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) said that the U.S. relationship with Israel represents “an unwavering and undeniable bond, and the most important relationship we have in the Middle East. I want to emphasize that this is more than 15 percent of the entire U.S. House of Representatives with you right now.”

    Why is there an “unwavering and undeniable bond”?

    Why should we have such a thing with any country?

    Why are American politicians not focusing on America?

    As I remarked, the timing following the Epstein event is noteworthy.

    In response to the boycott-promoting members who did not attend under the banner of #skipthetrip, Hoyer noted that Congress recently “passed the resolution in opposition to the BDS movement, which is a movement that seeks to undermine, we believe, Israel’s security and safety,” adding that the “resolution passed with 97.5 percent, and that is a clear indication of united support—Democratic and Republican support together—on behalf of the same vision.”

    Isn’t the US supposed to be a “democracy”?

    When the question has been taken to the people, in a Pew poll just this last April, only 41% of Americans supported the Israeli state, and only 64% supported the Jews at all.

  109. Phantom, on August 12th, 2019 at 5:55 PM Said:
    The American revolutionaries didn’t have the support of the majority either.

    There were many who were loyalists to Britain, many who were neutral.

    Who are you calling George Washington a terrorist?

    Did GW put on a mask and kill women and children did Franklin, Jefferson, or Maddison ?

    No the GOVERNMENTS of the 13 originally colonies/countries debated it, voted on it, and then PUBLICLY Declared Independence SIGNING THEIR NAMES TO IT….

    They did it the right way even with only the support of 3% of the population…. III

  110. Isn’t the US supposed to be a “democracy”?

    NO it’s a REPUBLIC !

  111. You see even with only three percent of the population supporting revolution by doing it the right way open and in public they were able to take 13 seperate countries meld them into one and defeat the worlds preeminent world power at the time.

    That is how it is done, if the IRA had taken that rout I would gladly support them, they didn’t. They hid in the shadows and targeted non combatants as well as combatants.

  112. next time Phantom you see someone with patriotic patches on a vest or something look for a patch that is just three capital i’s …. III

    That’s what that patch stands for the three percent of Americans that built this nation.

  113. The patch stands for ignorance.

  114. The Continental Army used guerrilla warfare a lot (as learned in the French Indian War). But for the guerilla tactics, the Americans might not have won the war (I know there’s a lot more to the story). I remember one documentary where they read from the diary of some British officer who talked about the yanks slithering on their bellies in the shadows and not following the gentlemanly rules of warfare. Granted, Ireland’s struggles were very different but the Irish learned from the American guerilla tactics. I don’t support the violence that occurred but I didn’t grow up in that situation either.

  115. A lot of the violence was abuse of the American loyalists.

    I’d think that the oppressed in America at that time were the blacks and Indians, not 3% of the whites.

  116. well…the taxes were oppressive enough for the white yanks to get their knickers in a twist. 🙂

  117. Another reason for the war is that the yanks didn’t like the British ‘standing armies’ among them and that complaint was all too familiar to the Irish.

  118. The native americans taught us how to fight the hard way, but the rightway. Our army consisted of mostly untrained men but everyone of them was familiar with hunting. Hunting tactics were used. You don’t march 6 men abreast when moving through the woods to game.

    What the Swamp Fox did in the Carolinas was brutal, and his brigade were all local men who honed their skills in the swamp and woods.

  119. ‘standing armies’ among them and that complaint was all too familiar to the Irish.

    The outrage of that is lost on most americans, but it was so offensive to our founders it’s the third amendment in the Bill of Rights.

    Amendment III
    No soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.

  120. Actually while gorilla tactics were used it is stunning how often the rebels fought conventionally.

  121. Isn’t that more of a complaint about them lodging soldiers in people’s houses against the owners will than it is against a standing army generally

  122. Mahons, on August 12th, 2019 at 8:07 PM Said:
    Actually while gorilla tactics were used it is stunning how often the rebels fought conventionally.

    Even in the civil war they continued that foolishness. It’s one of the main reasons for the high casualty rate of that war. The weaponry had far out advanced the tactics. Gettysburg is the best example.

  123. Phantom, on August 12th, 2019 at 8:09 PM Said:
    Isn’t that more of a complaint about them lodging soldiers in people’s houses against the owners will than it is against a standing army generally

    It was based on standing army, the tradition and law in that day was that they could pretty much take over any properties they wanted to barracks them. Same issue just presented different due to the Time in which it was written.

  124. I do want to say Mahons I loved the welcome back kotter spin of your post. good memories and simpler chuckles.

    But for some reason everytime I see the posts title now frigging “Sylvia’s Mother” starts playing in my ear… thanks for the earworm buddy…..

  125. //Actually while gorilla tactics were used it is stunning how often the rebels fought conventionally.//

    I’d say the only one who really used gorilla tactics was Johnny Adair.

    https://www.scotsman.com/news-2-15012/plot-to-assassinate-mad-dog-adair-at-gym-1-3773683

  126. Sylvia’s mother is a classic tune.

  127. Did GW put on a mask and kill women and children did Franklin, Jefferson, or Maddison ?

    I’m not sure if the Contras wore masks but they killed plenty of women & children.

    I’d imagine Irgun did most of the time when they were killing men, women & children.

    Joe Doc didn’t wear a mask nor kill women and children.

  128. I think that the support in the six counties for guys like Doherty was more than 3%.

  129. Well of course it was higher than 3%. If you admitted support, you’d be in deep doo-doo or Long Kesh…not much difference (bad joke).

  130. and that’s the tell…..

    If you admitted support, you’d be in deep doo-doo

    You’d be in deep doo doo because whether you believe the Irish People were being oppressed by the British and were rightly upset or not…. dealing with it with terrorism and in the manner they were executing there disagreement was morally and ethically WRONG and if you admitted that support in most company you would be looked at eskew and rightfully so.

  131. Mahons, on August 12th, 2019 at 9:31 PM Said:
    Sylvia’s mother is a classic tune.

    I agree I could be hearing something horrible….. abba maybe… 😉

  132. Dealing with it with terrorism and in the manner they were executing there disagreement was morally and ethically WRONG

    Unlike forming an armed group to overthrow a democratically elected government because you don’t like them you mean?

    There’s a definition for that nowadays.

  133. Patrick Van Roy, on August 12th, 2019 at 6:31 PM Said:

    Isn’t the US supposed to be a “democracy”?

    NO it’s a REPUBLIC !

    Good, Patrick – and you only took issue with the last question, the first being……

    Why should our politicians be serving any foreign country? How is this justifiable?

    resulting from the fact that 72 Congressmen are in Israel to pledge unwavering allegiance – in the aftermath of Epstein events:

    https://twitter.com/KlasfeldReports/status/1159830107776790533

    Adam Klasfeld
    ‏Verified account @KlasfeldReports
    Aug 9

    Uploading files to share right now.

    Among the trove of more than a dozen, there is the formerly-sealed 76-page ruling in the case Giuffre v. Maxwell, the case brought by one of Epstein’s accusers interviewed in @JKJournalist’s watershed series “Perversion of Justice.”

    From that ruling: “Giuffre also alleged she was ‘forced’ to have sex with Dershowitz, ‘model scout’ Jean Luc Brunel, and ‘many other powerful men, inc. numerous prominent American politicians, powerful business executives, foreign presidents, a well-known Prime Minister…”

    I wonder how many of those “numerous, prominent American politicians” are in Israel at this moment.

  134. Paul those actions were taken by a government for a governments interest which means if people are unhappy about it those responsible could be tried and if proven in violation convicted.

    That is a big difference than a group of self appointed criminals.

    What you also fail to see…. which is primary.

    One group committing a crime gives no excuse or justification for any other group to commit their crimes. So whether my government did something in the past or the jews or any group that you want to name… it’s no F*ing Excuse.

    And just as the Mafia is viewed as animals and an embarrassment to Italian culture on my Italian side is a the IRA is viewed as animals and an embarrassment to Irish culture on my Irish side…. neither groups are heroes nor people to be admired. They are a blight on our society and our heritage and should all be hunted, caged, or killed.

    Sorry that’s how I was raised.

  135. Good, Patrick – and you only took issue with the last question, the first being……

    no it means that is the only question that caught my eye….

    If I disagree with something you say Allan I for the most part ignore it. You have said one or two things now and again that I may agree with…. none come to mind but it has happened and may happen again. A broken clock is still right twice a day.

    However on those rare occasions I’m not shy to say I agree, so please don’t EVER think of no comment by me as an agreement to anything you say Allan.

  136. Unlike forming an armed group to overthrow a democratically elected government because you don’t like them you mean?

    Isn’t that terrorism?

    That is a big difference than a group of self appointed criminals.

    Who appoints the armed group who will use force of arms to overthrow the democratically elected government that you don’t like?

    It’s no F*ing Excuse.

    I’m not saying that it’s a fucking excuse.

    What I am saying however is that you giving your political hero who supported trained and funded a terrorist group who killed thousands of men, women and children and maimed thousands more a pass while you yourself have supported the hundreds of sectarian murders committed by Irgun prior to WWII is blatant double standards and gross hypocrisy.

    I don’t need to excuse the IRA, I will condemn or support their individual actions based on the specific circumstances of each one. What we are talking about here is the principle of supporting terrorism – you have suported and your political hero has supported, trained and funded terrorism which suits your particular outlook while condemning others. As a matter of fact, the terrorism that you condone has in many instances been much worse that that which you condemn.

    That’s enormous duplicity.

  137. no it means that is the only question that caught my eye….

    Patrick – you are evading. At this moment, 72 Congressmen are in Israel showing the kind of concern for Israel’s borders that they refuse to show for the US’s borders. As is shown above, many prominent US politicians had sex with underage girls at Epstein’s establishments run by Mossad. The question which you avoid is……

    Why should our politicians be serving any foreign country?

  138. Epstein’s establishments run by who?

  139. The death by hanging of Jeffrey Epstein while in federal custody may have been preventable, but not by closer monitoring. By protocol Mr. Epstein was supposed to be checked every 30 minutes, but reportedly was not.

    Although it is a standard protocol for inmates and inpatients deemed to be at suicide risk, close monitoring by observers every 30 minutes, or more typically every 15 minutes, cannot prevent a death by asphyxiation that takes a mere four to six minutes to occur. Studies have documented that a large percentage of individuals who died by suicide in institutional care (36 percent in one study, 51 percent in another) were on 15-minute checks or even one-to-one observation at the time of death.

    Many suicides are preventable by a variety of other methods, but not by close or frequent monitoring.

    Lanny Berman
    Chevy Chase, Md.
    The writer is past president of the American Association of Suicidology.

    Letter to the editor, the failing New York Times

  140. Good ABBA Joke Patrick.

  141. Who appoints the armed group who will use force of arms to overthrow the democratically elected government that you don’t like?

    We didn’t select them and we didn’t start their fight we just sold them guns.

    I don’t need to excuse the IRA, I will condemn or support their individual actions based on the specific circumstances of each one. What we are talking about here is the principle of supporting terrorism – you have suported and your political hero has supported, trained and funded terrorism which suits your particular outlook while condemning others. As a matter of fact, the terrorism that you condone has in many instances been much worse that that which you condemn.

    That’s enormous duplicity.

    There’s a simple rule Paul “If it’s good for America it can’t be wrong” and in the past we applied that rule under a different set of rules…. Those rules have been updated. As for my own personal Hypocrisy/Duplicity I can only be held to the moral code I was raised under.

    As a person of Irish Decent I view the IRA with contempt and as a blight on the Irish people just as a person of Italian decent I abhor the Mafia. Both sides of my family have been involved in policing for over 100 years and have had to deal with the dark blemish both these groups have put on my people.

  142. At what point do you view the IRA with contempt? From its inception?

  143. from December 6, 1921 on….

  144. Patrick – you are evading. At this moment, 72 Congressmen are in Israel showing the kind of concern for Israel’s borders that they refuse to show for the US’s borders. As is shown above, many prominent US politicians had sex with underage girls at Epstein’s establishments run by Mossad. The question which you avoid is……

    Why should our politicians be serving any foreign country?

    Our don’t serve foreign countries, many of them don’t serve this country they serve themselves and should be term limited out of office.

    As for being in Israel I say good let them see how a reel border is run and make sure while they’re there that the Jews are equipped with our best toys to keep the wolves at bay. Whatever they want…. double it 😉

  145. Patrick

    //There’s a simple rule Paul “If it’s good for America it can’t be wrong” //

    Statements like this make me wonder why anybody bothers to try and debate with Patrick.

  146. We didn’t select them

    So the armed group who will use force of arms to overthrow the democratically elected government that you don’t like are self appointed like the ones you condemn above?

    Wouldn’t that then be terrorism?

    There’s a simple rule Paul “If it’s good for America it can’t be wrong” and in the past we applied that rule under a different set of rules….

    No Pat, you don’t get to invent ‘rules’ to try to mask your double standards and then cite them as if they’re some sort of accepted authority. You have supported incrediblely sectarian terrorist murder of civilians in Palestine prior to WWII and your political hero has used US taxpayer’s $s to train & fund terrorists. By your own admission he should have been ‘hunted, caged or killed’.

    As a person of Irish descent I view the IRA with contempt and as a blight on the Irish people

    Really? how very generous of you as a small part Irish American to tell those in Ireland whose houses were being burned, who were being brutalised in their daily lives, who were having their front doors kicked in in the early hours of the morning and having their homes wrecked and who were in the worst of scenarios being killed how you disapproved of their reactions. You should have told them then, I’m sure it would have stopped state brutalisation and the brutal reaction to it immediately.

    Pat, your selective support of terrorism and your idolism of those who actually funded and trained terrorists is widely well known here so that imaginary moral high horse is smaller than a Shetland Pony. There’s not really a lot to be said on this subject which hasn’t been said many times before so I’ll leave to the High Court of ATW commetariat to judge high ground, double standards and hypocrisy.

  147. // Patrick Van Roy, on August 12th, 2019 at 6:43 PM Said:

    next time Phantom you see someone with patriotic patches on a vest or something look for a patch that is just three capital i’s …. III //

    I thought that meant “I Indulge Israel”

  148. I don’t love the 3% thought process one bit.

    It kind of means that the wishes of 97% were overthrown by a few guys with guns.

    These guys like minority rule more than I thought.

  149. “As a person of Irish Decent I view the IRA with contempt and as a blight on the Irish people” I think most Irish Americans would agree with you.

    “Really? how very generous of you as a small part Irish American to tell those in Ireland whose houses were being burned, who were being brutalised in their daily lives, who were having their front doors kicked in in the early hours of the morning and having their homes wrecked and who were in the worst of scenarios being killed how you disapproved of their reactions. You should have told them then, I’m sure it would have stopped state brutalisation and the brutal reaction to it immediately.” Weep. Weep and more weeping.

  150. It also isn’t true. It comes from 80,000 people divided by the population of the colonies at the time. It works out at about 2.96%.

    The problem is that the 80,000 number comes from the number of pension files and bounty-land warrant applications. It doesn’t include in that number those who fought but then didn’t file a pension request or a bounty-land application.

    The true number, including the entire Continental Army, and all militias, and all naval privateers, was probably closer to 350,000. That gets you closer to 13%. That figure isn’t too far from the total number of Americans who served in uniform during World War II.

    That number also doesn’t include the men and women who provided clothing, supplies, food etc… to the continental army.

  151. *It also isn’t true

    That is in relation to the 3% myth.

  152. “Weep. Weep and more weeping”

    As opposed to cunt, cunt and more cunting.

    That is what New Yorker wanted us to do in response to the murder of 9 year old Patrick Rooney. Just cry and accept it like good little house niggers.

  153. That is the statement of a true idiot…..

    These guys like minority rule more than I thought.

    The 3% were the amount of the population that fought for our freedom. Only less than one percent of Americans ever serve in our military now…. so a hell of a lot more people VOLUNTEERED then then do now…. but that’s here nor there… look at what Phantom said…

    Of the People, By the People, For the People…… the “minority rule” you decry you maroon was the first nation in history to based on the power residing IN THE PEOPLE…. not the elite.

    You really should transfer to one of your offices outside this country…. now go Whine to David.

  154. “Of the People, By the People, For the People…… the “minority rule” you decry you maroon was the first nation in history to based on the power residing IN THE PEOPLE…. not the elite.”

    Sounds almost like a democracy, which you seem to want to avoid calling America (largely due to the name of the political party that you oppose).

  155. It also wasn’t the first nation in history to do so. It is, arguably, the first continually existing nation that did so.

  156. Dave Alton, on August 13th, 2019 at 11:04 AM Said:
    Patrick

    //There’s a simple rule Paul “If it’s good for America it can’t be wrong” //

    Statements like this make me wonder why anybody bothers to try and debate with Patrick.

    Well Dave maybe unlike you they enjoy a challenge. The point of “debate” is to discuss an issue with someone you DISAGREE with, not discussing the issue with just people who think the same…. that’s a form of mental masturbation……

  157. Seamus, on August 13th, 2019 at 2:12 PM Said:
    “Weep. Weep and more weeping”

    As opposed to cunt, cunt and more cunting.

    That is what New Yorker wanted us to do in response to the murder of 9 year old Patrick Rooney. Just cry and accept it like good little house niggers.

    Seamus….. please don’t use the C word or the N word…. thank you

  158. There’s not much of any indication that the majority of Americans supported the revolution at the time.

    That’s all I’m saying.

    A minority got their way because they thought that they were oppressed.

    Which is fine, though I’m not sure that they were all that oppressed, despite the fine words.

    There truly oppressed ( blacks, Indians ) were just as oppressed after the US was independent.

  159. New Yorker, on August 13th, 2019 at 2:04 PM Said:
    “As a person of Irish Decent I view the IRA with contempt and as a blight on the Irish people” I think most Irish Americans would agree with you.

    “Really? how very generous of you as a small part Irish American to tell those in Ireland whose houses were being burned, who were being brutalised in their daily lives, who were having their front doors kicked in in the early hours of the morning and having their homes wrecked and who were in the worst of scenarios being killed how you disapproved of their reactions. You should have told them then, I’m sure it would have stopped state brutalisation and the brutal reaction to it immediately.” Weep. Weep and more weeping.

    Another emotional NY Liberal…..

    I’ve railed against these scum my whole life NYr as has every Irish American that I know, except for those I grew up who are now in prison for being hoods or are people who live up to the stereo type of Drunkin idiots that beat and cheat on their wives.

    You want to support them then which are you an Irish Thug, or an Irish Drunk?

    The scenario you paint of how they were treated is no different than how things were in Philadelphia, Boston, New York City, Trenton… etc etc when the British Occupied them.

    We didn’t don masks and kill woman and children…. my ass bleeds for them…. boo hoo.

    They were cowards, animals and murderers and they are a disgrace to everyone Irish.

  160. Sounds almost like a democracy, which you seem to want to avoid calling America (largely due to the name of the political party that you oppose).

    It has nothing to do with the opposition Party, it has everything to do with the FACT that the United States is a REPUBLIC…..

  161. my ass bleeds for them

    Too much information

  162. It is a democracy, and a republic

    There isn’t anyone in the country that doesn’t know that.

  163. Seamus, on August 13th, 2019 at 2:09 PM Said:
    It also isn’t true. It comes from 80,000 people divided by the population of the colonies at the time. It works out at about 2.96%.

    Not true not true….. it was only 2.96…. not 3…. roflmao!

  164. Phantom, on August 13th, 2019 at 2:50 PM Said:
    It is a democracy, and a republic

    There isn’t anyone in the country that doesn’t know that.

    REALLY walk out of your building and ask the first ten people you see what kind of system they live in 8 out of ten will give you the wrong answer.

  165. Democracy is worth dying for, because it’s the most deeply honorable form of government ever devised by man. Ronald Reagan
    Read more at https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/ronald_reagan_387305

    from your buddy

  166. The Worst Form of Government
    ‘Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…’

    Winston S Churchill, 11 November 1947

    from my buddy

  167. “They were cowards, animals and murderers and they are a disgrace to everyone Irish.”

    Of which you are not. Lets get something straight. You are not Irish. You never have been Irish. You never will be Irish. You don’t get to lecture Irish people on what it means to be Irish.

    “We didn’t don masks and kill woman and children…. my ass bleeds for them…. boo hoo.”

    Yeah you did. Targeting of loyalist civilians were common during the American Revolutionary War (and for that matter targeting of patriot civilians by the British). Rape of women was common. The treatment of Indians by colonial forces was barbaric (and vice versa for that matter). So get off your high horse.

    “Not true not true….. it was only 2.96…. not 3…. roflmao!”

    Read the entire thing. The 3% figure comes from the 2.96% figure. Both are wrong (as are you).

  168. “REALLY walk out of your building and ask the first ten people you see what kind of system they live in 8 out of ten will give you the wrong answer.”

    A republic is not the rule of the people. Rome was a republic, despite aristocratic rule. Most constitutional monarchies today are ruled by the people and their representatives. None are republics. A republic is one where rule is not inherited.

    A democracy is rule of the people. So government of the people, by the people, and for the people, describes a democracy, not a republic.

  169. The physical abuse of loyalist Americans in that era and the theft of their properties after the war in some cases, was something that they didn’t exactly teach so well in school.

  170. https://www.amazon.com/Libertys-Exiles-American-Loyalists-Revolutionary/dp/1400075475

  171. Educate yourselves on our system

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rj0zBMq1EaE

  172. There is a lie in the first 25 seconds of the video. So the rest of it is likely bollocks as well. No one is saying the US isn’t a republic. It is a democratic republic.

  173. I want Prayger or Rush or ” the Great One ” to pontificate on this stuff.

  174. So you Claim Franklin never said that….?

  175. “So you Claim Franklin never said that….?”

    Nope. I deny that anyone claims that it is “a democracy, not a republic”. No one says it isn’t a republic. The video opens with a lie.

  176. NUMBER: 1593
    AUTHOR: Benjamin Franklin (1706–90)
    QUOTATION: “Well, Doctor, what have we got—a Republic or a Monarchy?”

    “A Republic, if you can keep it.”
    ATTRIBUTION: The response is attributed to BENJAMIN FRANKLIN—at the close of the Constitutional Convention of 1787, when queried as he left Independence Hall on the final day of deliberation—in the notes of Dr. James McHenry, one of Maryland’s delegates to the Convention.

    McHenry’s notes were first published in The American Historical Review, vol. 11, 1906, and the anecdote on p. 618 reads: “A lady asked Dr. Franklin Well Doctor what have we got a republic or a monarchy. A republic replied the Doctor if you can keep it.” When McHenry’s notes were included in The Records of the Federal Convention of 1787, ed. Max Farrand, vol. 3, appendix A, p. 85 (1911, reprinted 1934), a footnote stated that the date this anecdote was written is uncertain.
    SUBJECTS: Republic
    WORKS: Benjamin Franklin Collection

  177. Also the use of “republic” as meaning rule of law is nonsense. The UK has rule of law. Isn’t a republic. A republic is one where rule is not property, and thus not inheritable.

  178. ask 90 percent of the people in the street Seamus they think we live in a democracy.

  179. “ask 90 percent of the people in the street Seamus they think we live in a democracy.”

    You do live in a democracy. A democratic republic.

  180. We do.

    A very screwed up one, but a democracy yes.

    Don’t get all pedantic, everyone knows what these terms mean.

  181. NOPE…. sorry…

  182. Weep. Weep and more weeping

    Ill informed, attention seeking troll, troll and more trolling.

    The violence of the state must be diminished and excused at all costs.

    We didn’t don masks and kill woman and children

    And again,

    I’m not sure if the Contras wore masks but they killed plenty of women & children.

    I’d imagine Irgun did most of the time when they were killing men, women & children.

    Joe Doc didn’t wear a mask nor kill women and children […]

    No Pat, you don’t get to invent ‘rules’ to try to mask your double standards and then cite them as if they’re some sort of accepted authority. You have supported incrediblely sectarian terrorist murder of civilians in Palestine prior to WWII and your political hero has used US taxpayer’s $s to train & fund terrorists. By your own admission he should have been ‘hunted, caged or killed’.

    They were cowards, animals and murderers and they are a disgrace to everyone Irish.

    You’re not Irish Pat. At best you’re part Irish American with I’d guess about 1/8 Irish lineage from a long time ago. You don’t get to lecture the Irish, (particularly as a selective supporter of terrorism yourself), on their violent reaction to violent oppression nor show faux chagrin as a result of it.

    Seamus….. please don’t use the C word

    Question, why do Americans find the word cunt so offensive? It’s a perfectly acceptable slang word in Ireland, as often used as a term of endearment / affection as an insult.

  183. Of FFS, the old ‘Republic not democracy’ rubbish again?

    Ask 90 percent of the people in the street Seamus they think we live in a democracy

    And they’d be right.

    Are you suggesting that the term Republic is mutually exclusive from the concept of democracy?

  184. Paul you can state the contras all you want… they aren’t americans, just as the Irish aren’t the jews…..

    You constantly want to excuse how the animals in the IRA were ok because some other terror group did the same thing.

    You need a lesson in morality.

  185. They were as moral as Ronald Reagan

  186. “You constantly want to excuse how the animals in the IRA were ok because some other terror group did the same thing.”

    Actually he is pointing out your hypocrisy. You support terrorism in other cases, like Irgun or Reagan. You even advocate it if the government passed gun control. Yet you then get up on a high horse about the IRA. You are a hypocrite. It is perfectly moral to point that out.

  187. Patrick

    //Well Dave maybe unlike you they enjoy a challenge. The point of “debate” is to discuss an issue with someone you DISAGREE with, not discussing the issue with just people who think the same…. that’s a form of mental masturbation……//

    I see you’ve missed the point as usual Patrick. I do enjoy a challenge, but debating with someone who changes the rules and moves the goalposts whenever it suits them isn’t a challenge. They’ve a tedious chore.

  188. Phantom

    It is a democracy, and a republic

    There isn’t anyone in the country that doesn’t know that.

    Most people in the rest of the world also know that fact mate.

  189. Biggest fake issue in the history of fakeness

    How many angels can dance on the head of a pin if its enclosed on a submarine north of Atlantis on Leap Year

  190. You constantly want to excuse how the animals in the IRA were ok because some other terror group did the same thing

    From above Pat,

    I’m not saying that it’s a fucking excuse.

    What I am saying however is that you giving your political hero who supported trained and funded a terrorist group who killed thousands of men, women and children and maimed thousands more a pass while you yourself have supported the hundreds of sectarian murders committed by Irgun prior to WWII is blatant double standards and gross hypocrisy.

    I don’t need to excuse the IRA, I will condemn or support their individual actions based on the specific circumstances of each one. What we are talking about here is the principle of supporting terrorism – you have suported and your political hero has supported, trained and funded terrorism which suits your particular outlook while condemning others. As a matter of fact, the terrorism that you condone has in many instances been much worse that that which you condemn.

    That’s enormous duplicity.

    A terror group you support. You are a supporter of terrorism and your political hero was a supporter and enabler of terrorism

    You need a lesson in morality

    Perhaps you’re right but it won’t be from someone who holds such hypocritical double standards.

  191. no the biggest fake issue in History is Climate Change.

  192. //Of the People, By the People, For the People…… the “minority rule” you decry you maroon was the first nation in history to based on the power residing IN THE PEOPLE…. not the elite.//

    That isn’t true. The Greek democracies had universal male franchise, as did the subsequent Roman republic.

    It’s strange to think that the US didn’t get the same level of voting rights as the Ancient Greeks until around 1820 and the UK until 1918.

  193. Dave Alton, on August 13th, 2019 at 4:09 PM Said:
    Patrick

    //Well Dave maybe unlike you they enjoy a challenge. The point of “debate” is to discuss an issue with someone you DISAGREE with, not discussing the issue with just people who think the same…. that’s a form of mental masturbation……//

    I see you’ve missed the point as usual Patrick. I do enjoy a challenge, but debating with someone who changes the rules and moves the goalposts whenever it suits them isn’t a challenge. They’ve a tedious chore.

    What rules do I change….?

    You’re just inadequate Dave and can’t debate.

  194. Patrick

    What rules do I change….?

    Here’s a simple one for you mate, your double standards when it comes to America and the rest of the world.

    There’s a simple rule Paul “If it’s good for America it can’t be wrong”

  195. Paul I don’t hold double standards.

    As a person of Logic, Fact, and Reality I apply my judgement to the individual circumstances in each individually independent situation.

    You can’t equate, the Jews, the Contra’s, or the American Revolution to the IRA. Like it or not you are excusing terror by trying to compare them.

    The Irish Troubles belong to the Irish that supported the IRA and the IRA themselves. They stained our heritage and are a disgrace. Nothing more….

  196. He said ” our “

  197. “The Irish Troubles belong to the Irish that supported the IRA and the IRA themselves. They stained our heritage and are a disgrace. Nothing more….”

    It isn’t your heritage. You are not Irish.

    You support terrorism when you want to. So you lack the ability to lecture anyone on the subject.

  198. What rules do I change….?

    Here’s a simple one for you mate, your double standards when it comes to America and the rest of the world.

    There’s a simple rule Paul “If it’s good for America it can’t be wrong”

    That’s not changing any rules…. That’s A Fact, if it’s good for America it can’t be wrong. The US has been the greatest most benevolent nation in world history. Anything that benefits us eventually benefits the world.

    I support MY Country, there is nothing wrong with that and it has always been that way, so nothing has changed.

    Dave your just not intelligent enough to explain what you believe and defend it when challenged.

  199. You’ve rejected any Irish heritage, have never said anything good about the Irish or expressed any sympathy for any of their struggles.

    Let the Italians claim you.

    You ate the soup a very long time ago.

  200. F you Seamus Ireland and Italy are both where my family came from and both are my Heritage.

    And the IRA and MAFIA are both stains on my heritage, and all members of both should be Hunted, Caged, or Killed.

  201. You supported the terror of Irgun and your political hero supported and enabled the terror of the Contras. In many many cases their violence was worse than the violence you condemn.

    They stained our heritage and are a disgrace.

    With a Dutch surname and self admittedly coming from an Italian background I doubt you have much Irish hertitage to be claiming faux shame on it.

    Your whole 4.27 is a double standard Pat. I doubt there is a single contributor bar yourself who disputes this and suspect you are being deliberately obtuse for the sake of argument

    Question, why do Americans find the word cunt so offensive? It’s a perfectly acceptable slang word in Ireland, as often used as a term of endearment / affection as an insult.

    Any USer?

  202. “F you Seamus Ireland and Italy are both where my family came from and both are my Heritage.”

    No your family left. And undoubtedly they had their reasons but they left. A long time ago. You are descended of people who were Irish. But you are not Irish. You have never been Irish. You never will be Irish. You are not a part of my nation.

    “And the IRA and MAFIA are both stains on my heritage, and all members of both should be Hunted, Caged, or Killed.”

    You support terrorism when you want to. You encourage terrorism when you want to. And, according to you (though I doubt it truth be told), you would engage in terrorism should the government try to take away your guns. So you don’t get to lecture. No plastic paddy gets to tell real Irish people about what it means to be Irish.

  203. You ate the soup a very long time ago.

    Nice turn of phrase Phantom. A particularly grievous insult in Ireland.

  204. Phantom, on August 13th, 2019 at 4:38 PM Said:
    You’ve rejected any Irish heritage, have never said anything good about the Irish or expressed any sympathy for any of their struggles.

    Let the Italians claim you.

    You ate the soup a very long time ago.

    F you too you little whiny bitch… why don’t you run to David and Whine about me some more… I’m Irish Catholic and Italian Catholic…. who the hell are you to say I reject my Irish Heritage…. the fact that I condemn murdering scumbags and insist that by being terrorists is a Legitimate belief of all decent Irish that believe in Law and Order rather the political murder….

    Once more F You Tom…. I’m really sick of you and your arrogant stupidity….

    Debate me on any issue I’ll kick your ass in it because you honestly know nothing of politics or history…. Whiner

  205. You have never praised the Irish for anything, nor have you ever expressed any knowledge of their culture, nor have you ever expressed any sympathy for any of their causes at any time.

    This over a period of more than a decade of speaking constantly.

  206. No your family left. And undoubtedly they had their reasons but they left. A long time ago. You are descended of people who were Irish. But you are not Irish. You have never been Irish. You never will be Irish. You are not a part of my nation.

    Never claimed to be part of your Nation…. most here aren’t. Even the majority of people here who “claim” they are “Irish” don’t live in Ireland… it’s their roots same as mine. They also are riding on their Heritage as they live in other nations.

    I wouldn’t live in Ireland, either half… it’s a disgrace. Beautiful, but a disgrace.

  207. Phantom, on August 13th, 2019 at 4:51 PM Said:
    You have never praised the Irish for anything, nor have you ever expressed any knowledge of their culture, nor have you ever expressed any sympathy for any of their causes at any time.

    This over a period of more than a decade of speaking constantly.

    Wrong…. I have always said the british oppressed the Irish, but I give no Sympathy to murderers or those that support them.

    The IRA were oppressed, and abused by the English… how they handled it was and is a disgrace.

  208. “Never claimed to be part of your Nation…. most here aren’t. Even the majority of people here who “claim” they are “Irish” don’t live in Ireland… it’s their roots same as mine. They also are riding on their Heritage as they live in other nations.”

    Then you aren’t Irish. You are claiming a culture and a people that you don’t belong to. You are not Irish. When you say you are Irish you are lying. You are not Irish.

    “I wouldn’t live in Ireland, either half… it’s a disgrace. Beautiful, but a disgrace.”

    We wouldn’t want you either. A redneck hypocrite who is the most pro-violence person on this site, who supports terrorism when he wants to, who waxes lyrically about his own nations political violence, who whitewashes the unpleasant bits of his nations history and then tries to claim the moral high ground. America can have you.

  209. The IRISH were oppressed, and abused by the English… how they handled it was and is a disgrace.

  210. “The IRA were oppressed, and abused by the English… how they handled it was and is a disgrace.”

    And your alternative? Considering your own war of independence saw innocent people die. Saw women and children die. Considering your own support for the mass slaughter of innocent people all over the world. Considering your support for car bombings against the children of Sinn Féin supporters. What is your alternative?

  211. Seamus, on August 13th, 2019 at 4:58 PM Said:
    “Never claimed to be part of your Nation…. most here aren’t. Even the majority of people here who “claim” they are “Irish” don’t live in Ireland… it’s their roots same as mine. They also are riding on their Heritage as they live in other nations.”

    Then you aren’t Irish. You are claiming a culture and a people that you don’t belong to. You are not Irish. When you say you are Irish you are lying. You are not Irish.

    “I wouldn’t live in Ireland, either half… it’s a disgrace. Beautiful, but a disgrace.”

    We wouldn’t want you either. A redneck hypocrite who is the most pro-violence person on this site, who supports terrorism when he wants to, who waxes lyrically about his own nations political violence, who whitewashes the unpleasant bits of his nations history and then tries to claim the moral high ground. America can have you.

    ROFLMAO….

  212. And your alternative?

    The Irish lost their first war of independence…. half their Island is still British.

    If the IRA were Men instead of Animals the would have dealt with the troubles the way King dealt with oppression of blacks in the US.

  213. Never claimed to be part of your Nation…. most here aren’t.

    I am part of the Irish nation in the sense that I was born there, lived most of my life there and am a citizen of the Irish Republic.

    Even the majority of people here who “claim” they are “Irish” don’t live in Ireland… it’s their roots same as mine. They also are riding on their Heritage as they live in other nations.

    Ummmmm,no. Most Irish peole who comment her, Seamus, Mourne Reg, Fews Orange, S McGiff, Frank O’Dwyer(?) IIRC were born and live in Ireland. Both Colm and Pete are London Irish with Iris parent(s).To my knowledge Noel and I are the only ones who currently don’t live in Ireland.

    At a guess I’d say that your lineage is at best about 1/8 Irish from a long, long time ago.

    Like what seems to be most of your ‘rules’ you don’t get to invent people’s nationality either.

  214. “If the IRA were Men instead of Animals the would have dealt with the troubles the way King dealt with oppression of blacks in the US.”

    Here’s why the comparison to the blacks in the US doesn’t hold water. The Irish people in the North didn’t have a version of Kennedy or Lyndon Johnson. Someone who had power who was willing to force through the necessary changes. We tried the King route. It didn’t work. You can either support what needed to be done to change that or you can support the old system. Those are your two choices.

    Real Irishmen did what needed to be done. Fake Irishmen like you cried and bitched about it.

  215. The Irish lost their first war of independence…. half their Island is still British

    Your grasp of Irish geography seems to be as good as your grasp of Irish history.

    Less that 1/5 of the island of Ireland is still under british occupation.

  216. Look love your country, you should, just as I love mine, but you certainly can’t say I’m not Irish, certainly when the majority of those on this site who claim to be Irish don’t live there.

    The United States is the only country where if you ask someone their nationality they state their bloodline, not where they were born…. just another piece of american coulture that you have no clue about.

  217. They tried peaceful protest

    The dirty cops and gangs clubbed those who tried.

    If you don’t know that why are you speaking about anything

  218. Less that 1/5 of the island of Ireland is still under british occupation.

    Oh excuse me is the Island divided in 2 or in 5ths…. I know NI and the ROI.. what are the other 3 ?

  219. Phantom, on August 13th, 2019 at 5:10 PM Said:
    They tried peaceful protest

    The dirty cops and gangs clubbed those who tried.

    If you don’t know that why are you speaking about anything

    Oh and that didn’t happen to King and the Civil Rights protestors…. bullshit.

    They acted like animals and should be caged.

  220. “Look love your country, you should, just as I love mine, but you certainly can’t say I’m not Irish, certainly when the majority of those on this site who claim to be Irish don’t live there.”

    I’m pretty sure only Noel and Paul don’t live here. And both were born here.

    But lets look at the wider stuff. An bhfuil Gaelige agat? Did you enjoy the Tyrone Kerry game at the weekend? When did you last go to a céilí? Have you ever done Irish dancing? Do you play an Irish instrument?

    “The United States is the only country where if you ask someone their nationality they state their bloodline, not where they were born…. just another piece of american coulture that you have no clue about.”

    So say Irish-American. Don’t say Irish. You aren’t Irish and you never will be.

  221. “Oh and that didn’t happen to King and the Civil Rights protestors…. bullshit.”

    Show me the Irish equivalent to the US Federal Government stepping in and passing the Civil Rights Act? The Voting Rights Act?

    “They acted like animals and should be caged.”

    You support actions like that all the time. Should you be caged?

  222. “Oh excuse me is the Island divided in 2 or in 5ths…. I know NI and the ROI.. what are the other 3 ?”

    5ths actually. And Northern Ireland makes up 2/3rds of 1/5th.

    If you were Irish you’d get the reference.

  223. JFK and LBJ stood up to the dirty states and their dirty cops with federal leadership

    That really didn’t happen in NI

  224. But you certainly can’t say I’m not Irish.

    We can say it and we’d be absolutely correct. You come from a lineage that has an Irish strain to it. With a Dutch surname and self admittedly coming from an Italian background I’d extrapolate that Irish lineage to be minimal and a long time ago.

    Certainly when the majority of those on this site who claim to be Irish don’t live there

    No, IIRC the only Irish people who don’t currently live in Ireland are Noel and I. The majority of Irish people who comment on this site were born and still live in Ireland.

  225. They acted like animals and should be caged

    Liike Irgun, The Contras and Regan?

  226. sorry I don’t hyphenate…. I’m an American of Irish and Italian HERITAGE.

    and no I don’t speak gaelic Most people on your Island don’t either…. and yes I’ve been to a céilí, and when I was young I did do Irish Dancing, I don’t play any instrument. I’ve even been to what we call an Irish Wake…

    The sat my uncles body up in a chair in the corner of the Pub and about 100 other cops drank and praised memories of him…. now I don’t know if they still follow that tradition on your Island, but on occasion we do here.

    Not to mention…. my first and middle names… Patrick Michael

  227. Nice reference, Seamus. “The four proud cuige of Ireland”. I always find that amusing…and very Irish.

  228. The majority of the people here are British and American, with a German and a Spaniard thrown in….

  229. I’m an American of Irish and Italian HERITAGE

    And Dutch?

    You may be a small part Irish American but you’re not Irish. (and you and still support(ed) terrorism ans idolise a political hero who supported and enabled terrorism).

  230. Reagan was a state sponsor of terror but he gave nice speeches

  231. Belgian not Flemish and not Walloon

  232. Patrick knows absolutely nothing about Ireland. A few years ago he – seriously – didn’t even know that Ireland was partitioned. Even later he thought SF was sharing power in the government of Ireland.

    Forget it.

    //Here’s why the comparison to the blacks in the US doesn’t hold water. The Irish people in the North didn’t have a version of Kennedy or Lyndon Johnson.//

    That’s really insignificant compared to the other differences.

    Ireland is partitioned, and the partitioning was done against the wishes and without the participation of the majority. Irish Unionists were allowed carve out a new state, and they included as much territory as possible without (they thought) endangering a Unionist majority in their creation, even including counties and towns that had just before voted allegience to Dail Eireann. They tried to maintain this hegemony by focussing investment (i.e. British money) in Unionist areas, by targeted unemployment in Nationalist areas and of course by disenfranchising a large part of the electorate etc.

    This constitutional and sectarian discrimination was unique and not part of the Black experience in the US.

  233. Phantom, on August 13th, 2019 at 5:37 PM Said:
    Reagan was a state sponsor of terror but he gave nice speeches

    you’re a disgrace as an american

  234. “sorry I don’t hyphenate…. I’m an American of Irish and Italian HERITAGE.”

    No. You are an American. Your grandparent, maybe later, is of Irish heritage. You aren’t. Neither of your parents were Irish.

    And it doesn’t matter if you want to hyphenate or not. You are not Irish. Your personal displeasure at using a term doesn’t mean you get to lie about what you are. You are not Irish.

    “and no I don’t speak gaelic Most people on your Island don’t either…. and yes I’ve been to a céilí, and when I was young I did do Irish Dancing, I don’t play any instrument. I’ve even been to what we call an Irish Wake…”

    Most people actually do to some level. Most don’t have it as their first language. But most people would speak at least a bit of it.

    So you don’t speak the language, don’t play the games, and haven’t indulged in music or dance in a long time. You aren’t Irish.

  235. Noel, on August 13th, 2019 at 5:38 PM Said:
    Patrick knows absolutely nothing about Ireland. A few years ago he – seriously – didn’t even know that Ireland was partitioned. Even later he thought SF was sharing power in the government of Ireland.

    That’s a Lie….. german.

  236. That’s true, but he still sponsored the Contras and gave weapons to the Islamic Republic

  237. Irish is someone who’s a citizen and primarily identifies with the country.

  238. Ok lets do this….. since I am not Irish, Italian and Belgian…. Fine

    From this point forward I won’t fight this battle I’ll choose another……

    lol

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MiqPQ1dVg4

  239. Belgium has wonderful beer.

    Small, interesting place.

    But they eat mussels, and no one should eat them.

  240. Belgian not Flemish and not Walloon

    And not Irish.

  241. //That’s a Lie….. german.//

    Patrick, sorry, it’s true.

    I remember quite well – although it was a long way back – that you showed by your comments that you weren’t aware Ireland was partitioned. You learned about the border through ATW.
    Before that, you thought it was Ireland trying to be free of Britain.

    It was much later that you also had to be told that Gerry Adams (or “Jerry Adams” as you called him) was not part of the government in Dublin. That was still in the era of Maidrin Rua and Aileen, and it caused some amusement too.

  242. Ah so ATW serves an educational purpose after all.

    Just like Prager University, or Trump University even.

  243. I have been trying to play nice with most of you….. I feel I have a good conversations with most, but some feel that I’m hostile, ignorant and stupid…. I can be the first 2, the last just can happen I’ve lost more knowledge than most of you will ever know.

    Now I’m not going to go back to the Troll… but you may find I don’t hold back on my views or put them into congenial prose anymore.

    Oh and Tom, you and I are at War…. your choice whiner

  244. I remember quite well – although it was a long way back – that you showed by your comments that you weren’t aware Ireland was partitioned. You learned about the border through ATW.
    Before that, you thought it was Ireland trying to be free of Britain.

    That’s a lie german……

  245. More recently Noel:

    The Irish lost their first war of independence…. half their Island is still British

    Pat, I think that you’re maybe a wee bit crazy sometimes and that behind all the macho bullshit postuering you’re a fundanentally decent guy. You really shouldn’t listen to the rubbish spouted on ATW to form your opinions on Ireland. Biased rubbish really isn’t a substitute for in depth reading.

  246. Now I’m not going to go back to the Troll… but you may find I don’t hold back on my views or put them into congenial prose anymore

    I wouldn’t have it any other way Pat. I enjoy a robust though civil discussion.

  247. I know Paul, and thank you

  248. This island of mine has for long been half free
    ( Patriot Game song )

    This would not be the first time someone has said that – I’d not tease on that one.

  249. //Oh and Tom, you and I are at War…. your choice whiner//

    Patrick, what’s with this “whiner” stuff? David warned you about your behaviour only a few days ago. Cut it out!

    BTW, I’ve noticed how civil you became and it led to a much more pleasant atmosphere around here.
    I don’t know about the others, but I appreciated it.

  250. This would not be the first time someone has said that

    Artistic licence do not facts make Phantom.

  251. Noel, on August 13th, 2019 at 6:03 PM Said:
    //Oh and Tom, you and I are at War…. your choice whiner//

    Patrick, what’s with this “whiner” stuff? David warned you about your behaviour only a few days ago. Cut it out!

    BTW, I’ve noticed how civil you became and it led to a much more pleasant atmosphere around here.
    I don’t know about the others, but I appreciated it.

    Noel do yourself a favor…… don’t get in between Phantom and I when we are not being cordial….

    Phantom is a whiner….. he can dish attacks out, but when you put a spotlight on him he whines…..

    And David didn’t warn me….. he asked me and another person to desist discussing the fact that Epstein had very close ties to who Phantom works for…. and we stopped.

    Even though the company and the people’s names were never mentioned…..

    He’s a Whiner and you’re a Liar Noel…..

  252. I respect David, and I always bow to his wishes…..

  253. Phantom, on August 13th, 2019 at 12:21 AM Said:

    Epstein’s establishments run by who?

    Well, why not work it out…..?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/08/13/jeffrey-epstein-ghislaine-maxwell-boasted-collecting-compromising/

    Jeffrey Epstein boasted about having compromising material on “an astonishing number” of rich and famous people, it has been claimed, while his British confidante Ghislaine Maxwell reportedly told friends that she and Epstein were videotaping everyone who visited Epstein’s private island in the Caribbean.

    Why? How would Epstein benefit from this?

    https://nationalvanguard.org/2019/07/did-pedophile-jeffrey-epstein-work-for-mossad/

    Unless Epstein is an extremely sick pedophile who enjoys watching films of other men raping twelve-year-old girls the whole filming procedure smacks of a sophisticated intelligence service compiling material to blackmail prominent politicians and other public figures. Those blackmailed would undoubtedly in most cases cooperate with the foreign government involved to avoid a major scandal. It is called recruiting “agents of influence.” That is how intelligence agencies work and it is what they do.

    That Epstein was perceived as being intelligence-linked was made clear in Acosta’s comments when being cleared by the Trump transition team. He was asked “Is the Epstein case going to cause a problem [for confirmation hearings]?” … “Acosta had explained, breezily, apparently, that back in the day he’d had just one meeting on the Epstein case. He’d cut the non-prosecution deal with one of Epstein’s attorneys because he had ‘been told’ to back off, that Epstein was above his pay grade. ‘I was told Epstein belonged to intelligence and to leave it alone.’”

    But whose intelligence service? CIA and the Russian FSB services are obvious candidates, but they would have no particular motive to acquire an agent like Epstein. That leaves Israel, which would have been eager to have a stable of high-level agents of influence in Europe and the United States. Epstein’s contact with the Israeli intelligence service may have plausibly come through his associations with Ghislaine Maxwell

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Maxwell

    The British Foreign Office suspected that Maxwell was a secret agent of a foreign government, possibly a double agent or a triple agent, and “a thoroughly bad character and almost certainly financed by Russia.” He had known links to the British Secret Intelligence Service (MI6), to the KGB, and to the Israeli intelligence service Mossad.[42] Six serving and former heads of Israeli intelligence services attended Maxwell’s funeral in Israel, while Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir eulogized him and stated: “He has done more for Israel than can today be said.”[43]

    Now given that the Attorney-General is the son of the man who gave Epstein his first job, the chances of anything worthwhile getting done are zero.

  254. Barr should recuse himself

    But Trump hates AGs who act in such an ethical fashion. Remember Sessions?

  255. //Six serving and former heads of Israeli intelligence services attended Maxwell’s funeral in Israel, //

    Those devious bastards, what?

  256. “But lets look at the wider stuff. An bhfuil Gaelige agat? Did you enjoy the Tyrone Kerry game at the weekend? When did you last go to a céilí? Have you ever done Irish dancing? Do you play an Irish instrument?”

    🙄 “wider” haha.

    By such criteria I’m not Irish and many who aren’t Irish are. It all has about as much bearing on being Irish as comely maidens and dancing at the crossroads. Or Riverdance, Craggy Island, Jedward and Westlife.

  257. lol…. good for you Frank