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NORTHERN IRELAND IS NOT THE SUDETENLAND

By Pete Moore On October 8th, 2019

A call this morning between the Prime Minister and the German Chancellor didn’t go well. We learn that the Chancellor decides for the EU, and that she never had any intention of compromising or negotiating. Sky News’ Sam Coates got the story:

‘The call with Merkel showed the EU has adopted a new position. She made clear a deal is overwhelmingly unlikely and she thinks the EU has a veto on us leaving the Customs Union. Merkel said that if Germany wanted to leave the EU they could do it no problem but the UK cannot leave without leaving Northern Ireland behind in a customs union and in full alignment forever. She said that Ireland is the government’s special problem and Ireland must at least have a veto on NI leaving. Merkel said that the PM should tell Northern Ireland that it must stay in full alignment forever, but that even this would not eliminate customs issues.

‘It was a very useful clarifying moment in all sorts of ways. If this represents a new established position, then it means a deal is essentially impossible not just now but ever. It also made clear that they are willing to torpedo the Good Friday Agreement’.

The sheer cheek of the German Chancellor! She has done nothing less than demand the economic and legislative annexation of part of the UK as the price of the British people reclaiming their birthrights. You’d think that she’d know how German attempts to annex bits of Europe end up.

The British government has actually put forward a comprise and a sensible deal from the EU’s perspective. Michel Barnier’s initial reaction was warm, but the EU has slowly rowed back from that to one of outright rejection.

So screw the EU. It has been hostile, dogmatic and unbending for more than many years now. That’s why we voted to leave in the first place. When David Cameron sought a few modest changes to the relationship he was mocked and got nothing.

So the EU can get nothing. It is their choice.

35 Responses to “NORTHERN IRELAND IS NOT THE SUDETENLAND”

  1. Everyone by now knows this is fake news, its a one-sided interpretation that only yourself and loons in DUP and Farage are peddling. It simply don’t pass the smell-test on ATW
    It got bedunked at 10:30am , 9hrs ago – keep up
    ( sighs )

  2. The British government has actually put forward a comprise and a sensible deal from the EU’s perspective

    No it didn’t, it didn’t at all. You were told that the Stormont Assembly needed cross coummunity / party majority voting in order to ratify decisions and the Stormont vote every four years meant that this would make the deal unworkable before it even got off the ground.

    You were asked what the default position would be if there was no cross community / party majority vote on the issue?

    Don’t believe me?:

    https://www.aedaily.net/en-gb/posts/brexit-stormont-parties-clash-over-customs-union-demand/

    There’s a theory going around that Johnson knew this offer was unworkable, (I kNew it was unworkable FFS), and offered it in bad faith knowing it would be rejected, triggering a no deal and that he’s attempt to blame the EU for that.

    Kurt commented earlier today about this aleeged exchange and said the blame game was now in play. Guido and Pete are straight out of the traps.

  3. //NORTHERN IRELAND IS NOT THE SUDETENLAND//

    True, the Sudetenland DIDN’T want to say in Czechoslovakia and preferred to be gobbled up by mad nationalists.

    NI, in contrast, DOES want to stay in the EU and DOESN’T want to be gobbled up by mad nationalists.

  4. Merkel was right and this is not a new EU position. It is the failure of Boris Johnson to come up with a plan that is acceptable to the EU. This is not a negotiation between equals, it is a matter of the UK complying with what the EU reasonably requires. It is further evidence the UK did not plan Brexit well and is now suffering the consequences of its own ineptitude.

  5. I’ve revised my position a bit. At 1st glance, I thought it was an insincere position; designed to be rejected.

    On 2nd review, it is somewhat logical. It eliminates regulatory checks in Ireland but keeps NI in the UK customs territory and allows the UK to determine its own trade agreements.

    Of course, the whole invisible, magical customs border idea in Ireland means it cant work in practice…so the same stumbling block as before. But I genuinely think the Brits are trying – they just need to try harder

  6. It’ll never, ever get past the Assembly test Reg.

  7. The unspoken thing is that when the English (Brits ) voted to Leave, they weren’t thinking of dem mad paddies in da Nort. Parlimentary Arithmetic meant the DUP came on board when May called her disastrous election. ( confidence and supply ) So NI took a somewhat central stage.
    Your average gammon in England would not understand what the fuss is all about re the GFA.
    The whole Brexit thing is going nowhere fast !

  8. Didn’t someone called Pete Moore or something state something along the lines of losing NI was a price worth paying for Brexit? Or something?

  9. true Seimi , life would be a lot easier for Brexiteers without the headache and complexity of NI, with its backstop, borders, Irish Sea. They would never be dealing with the Irish Gov’t.
    I think the phrase is “You can’t have your cake and eat it too ” – but try telling that to your average old colonialist.
    “How dare you” – we invented the cake, and we’ll jolly well eat it too.
    Hubris eh?
    18 Pride will destroy a person; a proud attitude leads to ruin.
    19 It is better to be humble and be with those who suffer than to share stolen property with the proud.
    Quod Erat Demonstrandum

  10. No.

    I said that if the people of NI decide to leave the UK then so be it. It’s bombshell stuff to EU jihadists, but some of us believe that a vote ought to be respected.

    If those same EU fans now believe that that the Belfast Agreement is defunct then they should say so. It clearly recognises the UK’s sovereignty over NI. A German Chancellor demanding NI as the price of leaving the EU might be acceptable to some, but it’s not acceptable to any right-thinking person.

    It also betrays the EU’s lies over the backstop. They said it was temporary. Merkel today all but confirmed that it would never have allowed NI to leave the EU.

  11. “Merkel today all but confirmed that it would never have allowed NI to leave the EU.”

    If you believe Jumbo Cummings’ hysterical press briefing.

    Which no-one does; and Merkel has denied it.

    I know who I believe.

  12. Didn’t someone called Pete Moore or something state something along the lines of losing NI was a price worth paying for Brexit? Or something?

    Yes, he did.

    If those same EU fans now believe that that the Belfast Agreement is defunct then they should say so. It clearly recognises the UK’s sovereignty over NI.

    Pete, how will Strand Two of the Belfast Ageement be affected by Brexit? Will the North–South Ministerial Council and the North–South Implementation Bodies still work together when the state of NI separates from the 26 counties? Will you be happy with an EU member state having having an input into the governance of a constituent part of the UK?

    The International Treaty, the Belfast Agreement won’t be affected by this will it?

    As for the Stormont Assembly requirement in Johnson’s deal. I’m afraid wee Jeff let the cat out of the bag:

    https://twitter.com/Seanofthesouth/status/1181330451191013378

  13. Didn’t someone called Pete Moore or something state something along the lines of losing NI was a price worth paying for Brexit? Or something?

    In fairness, there are many English/British who’d make that trade, even without a Brexit.

  14. Phantom –

    In fairness, that’s bullshit. Tonight the EU fans are sudden converts to German annexation of foreign territories and to burning the Belfast Agreement.

    When Canada demands New England as the price for ongoing US independence you will take that demand seriously, yes?

  15. MR –

    Merkel has not denied it. Not one EU source has denied it. They’ve had all day.

  16. petem you’ll have to row back in the morning, stop digging. Merkel said nothing of the sort

  17. anyway its immaterial , the latest is :
    EU considering a range of dates
    EU may offer to extend deadline for Brexit deal to June
    That may not be good news in some quarters 😉

  18. And to burning the Belfast Agreement.

    Pete, how will Strand Two of the Belfast Ageement be affected by Brexit? Will the North–South Ministerial Council and the North–South Implementation Bodies still work together when the state of NI separates from the 26 counties? Will you be happy with an EU member state having having an input into the governance of a constituent part of the UK?

    The International Treaty, the Belfast Agreement won’t be affected by this will it?

    ?

  19. I’d like to see an England/Wales poll asking where those folks stand on NI leaving the UK ( united Ireland ), supporting such a move or opposing it.

    Has any such poll been done?

  20. In fairness, that’s bullshit.

    No Pete. You really did say what Seimi says above.

  21. not fake news diplomat described No 10’s account of the call with Merkel as “an incredible distortion of facts”, saying she would have repeated the EU’s longstanding position that a customs border was not compatible with the UK’s obligations under the Good Friday agreement.

    Phantom, i reckon it’d be 99.999% “Get us outa there”
    But UK Gov’t fear loyalist bloodbath, so are blackmailed into paying the danegeld

    Interesting Fact ( easily proven )
    It costs more for NI to be within the UK than for the UK to be in the EU

  22. O/T but this is the only current post which is focusing on NI.
    I really can’t believe there hasn’t been a post on the revelations about ‘victims campaigner’ Willie Frazier supplying guns to Loyalist terrorists.

    https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/politics/spotlight-willie-frazer-supplied-ulster-resistance-guns-for-uda-massacres-1-9098540

  23. I’ve posted so you can explain what it means.

  24. Seimi this bbc series is one of the best ever. It’s got its hands on new material which isn’t always easy.
    I think the recent episode only came out tonight aired on the beeb

  25. Mahons
    there’s a link in my comment. Did you click it? And were you absent every time Willie Frazier, his victim’s group FAIR, or his untimely death were mentioned on these pages?
    Just in case all of the above is true – Willie Frazier was director of a victim’s group called FAIR: Families Acting for Innocent Relatives. Several members of his own family were killed by the IRA, and Frazier himself was a member of the UDR. There are rumours that his father was a member of the notorious Glenanne Gang.
    FAIR had their EU funding stopped and then revoked, pending an investigation into its misuse. Frazier led the Love Ulster campaign, and was one of the main organisers of the Belfast flag protests a few years ago.
    Always a controversial figure, he was once caught by journalists apparently faking his own kidnapping. He also famously tried to organise a protest and boycott of a local Catholic-maintained Primary school because it was flying what he thought was the Irish Tricolour. He claimed the school was a ‘the junior headquarters of SF/IRA youth.’ When it was pointed out to him that the flag in question was actually the Italian flag, which the school had flown in celebration of a cultural event, he quietly removed photos of the school and other sectarian comments from his social media pages.
    When it came to light that horse meat had been found in hamburgers, Willie Frazier claimed that the culprits were the IRA, and had a photo taken of himself, holding a hamburger, standing next to a horse.
    Whenever he has been brought up on these pages in the past – you must have been off on those days – he was always treated with a modicum of pitiful respect; damaged goods, but a good, loyal Ulsterman – by, amongst others, the site owner.
    In a programme broadcast tonight on BBC1 NI, and in all the main newspapers and news forums here all day, it was claimed that he was the supplier of guns to Ulster Resistance and the UDA, and that said guns were involved in the killings of at least 70 people.
    Where did these claims come from, you may ask (especially yourself, who had apparently never heard of him before I mentioned him)? From Republicans? No. From the man himself, apparently, in interviews he took part in shortly before his death. Also from Johnny ‘Mad Dog’ Adair, whose murder gangs used the weapons supplied.
    Do you need me to explain anything else to you?

  26. Apologies, Mahons. I misread your comment as sarcasm. I’ll amend and repost in the appropriate thread 🙂

  27. No worries, I’ve commented on posts about him over the years. I thought you and others could expand on my post.

    I’ve been dying to use Howard Cosell’s call on the Ali-Frazier fight for years.

  28. The only guy over there that might get that reference is Seamus, And he’s too young

  29. Since David defected to the Russians and the auld Orange Stalwarts have faded away the NI content on ATW has diminished. A shame, one of the reasons I got hooked originally.

  30. Yes

    More NI input, esp from resident unionists would be highly desirable

  31. There used to be a couple of very articulate, interesting Unionists on here, but I think their arguments were somewhat diminished by the ramblings of the likes of Logical Unionist, and I remember at least one saying they were leaving because of the high number of Nationalist/Republican posters.
    It would be nice to have more regular NI political posts, rather than the endless Brexit & Trump stuff.

  32. //It would be nice to have more regular NI political posts, rather than the endless Brexit & Trump stuff.//

    Yes. Although Brexit came just in time to save ATW from drowing in all those details of the US constitution and the deluge of stories about every minor figure in US media and politics.

    I also first came here, and stayed, because of NI coverage. The local Unionists faded away really with the progress of the peace process. After all their hysteria for years that the IRA was just regrouping and using the peace to prepare for all-out civil war etc etc., they finally gave up, or switched allegience to the US Rep party, when the settlement proved to be just and permanent.

    I can’t tire of stories about NI, but it’s a sign of better times that it isn’t more topical.

  33. Pete Moore, Canada doesn’t want New England we want Alaska

  34. So let’s see now, the well known Tory organ the Telegraph ran this yesterday:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/10/10/northern-ireland-burden-rest-uk-cant-let-get-way-brexit/?fbclid=IwAR14Plc8C1AOrFWUA3yZ4wOWr8Dfn_-jq4CtOXBrYGEXraFxXpL6Wwfkufc

    Johnson comes out with this today:

    https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-customs-ireland/johnson-declines-to-say-whether-northern-ireland-will-stay-in-eu-customs-union-after-brexit-idUKKBN1WQ1TY

    And then the Telegraph’s Brexit & Euro corrospondent tweets this:

    https://twitter.com/JamesERothwell/status/1182654344388317185

    Pete?

  35. Northern Ireland has long been a millstone round the neck of the rest of the UK and to fail to take back our independence because of it would be an historic tragedy. It is not widely known that it costs the UK more to support Northern Ireland than it does to be in the EU.

    That in the telegraph eh Paul
    still its a price worth paying said pete
    Its a good question to DV though … Hmmn?