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I’M AGAINST IT ALREADY

By Pete Moore On October 16th, 2019

For a “mere trading club which doesn’t interfere much in our country”, it’s an awful faff trying to get out of the EU. It’s taken us a thousand days longer to leave the EU than for half of Europe to leave the Soviet Union and Warsaw Pact.

For the avoidance of doubt, I’m already against anything which might be agreed and ratified. We don’t need the EU’s permission to regain our independence. Anything concocted by them and the Tories is going to stink the room out.

Any agreement will simply need to be repealed by the Farage government. We can avoid all that simply by walking away and reminding them who won the war.

33 Responses to “I’M AGAINST IT ALREADY”

  1. It seems that Johnson is no longer the great white saviour. Rightworld really are such a fickle lot.

  2. Who says Germans don’t have a sense of humour?

    Message to the UK: “Keep calm. Drink tea. Rely on your famous British humour. And remember Germany wins the penalty shootouts anyway.”

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-50053563

  3. //it’s an awful faff trying to get out of the EU. It’s taken us a thousand days longer to leave the EU than for half of Europe to leave the Soviet Union and Warsaw Pact.//

    Well, the difference there shouldn’t need much explaining. The vast majority of people in those countries were clear that they wanted to leave and that they wanted to leave completely.

    There is not even a simple majority in the UK for leaving the EU completely.

    //and reminding them who won the war.//

    You’re probably not aware of the truth behind that. “The war” was absolute horror for the people of mainland Europe, and the effect the two most awful wars in history had is usually very much underestimated by people whose countries didn’t experience them directly.

    The wars were caused by competing nationalism, and it shouldn’t surprise that nationalism has since then been generally out of favour in Europe.

  4. I am all for walking away. But as to who won what war I am passed caring. History can be fun but it is to the future we must always look.

  5. All outstanding issues with the exception of VAT are now resolved in the Brexit negotiations, including the consent issue, according to EU source

    https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1184508027728257025

    That Boris and his team really are great negotiators.

    As to who won the war, you can give a lot of thanks to rge Red Army and exiled Polish pilots for quite a bit of the combined effort.

  6. Paul

    That story has been strongly denied by the DUP and there will be no deal tonight because of them. I suspect the odds are tilting yet again against a deal being done this week or even this month:

    “A government source has told the BBC there will be “no deal tonight”, as officials continue to work on the technical details in Brussels. The UK and EU had been hoping to sign off a revised Brexit deal before Thursday’s crunch EU council meeting. The BBC’s Laura Kuenssberg said it was not now clear whether there would be a deal at all this week.

    Boris Johnson has been trying to get Tory Brexiteers and the DUP to back his revised plan for Northern Ireland. Laura Kuenssberg said she understood the issues between the UK, EU and Ireland were “pretty much sorted”, but it was still not clear whether the DUP, whose support could be vital if Parliament is to approve any agreement. were ready to sign up or not.”

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-50072748

  7. Peter, yes, I read Kuenssberg’s report and don’t think that there’ll be adeal struck this side of midnight however the quote above is from RTE’s political editor Tony Connelly so a deal seems to be at the very least in sight.

    As for the DUP, they’ve bee outmanouvered and painted into a corner. If the reject this so close to the wire they’ll be painted as the ones who caused a no deal Brexit. The pro remain majority in the north certainly won’t let them forget that and if you think Boris isn’t going to make hay while the sun shines and throw them under the no deal bus good luck with that.

    Incidentally, interesting to see who the DUP met with to talk about any potential deal:

    http://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2019/10/16/news/dup-defends-arlene-foster-s-astonishing-meetings-with-senior-loyalists-1739844/?param=ds441rif44T&fbclid=IwAR00MYHg50GFPR7r3eHzqLN0t1iRF22Yd6acXbjo2YdscNKY8ULJBU2CH0c

    If you really want to see how progress is going and how hard it is for the DUP to swallow forget about all the reports and analysis and talk. Just look over the next few hours how red Sammy Wilson’s face is and that’ll tell all.

  8. Noel –

    “There is not even a simple majority in the UK for leaving the EU completely.”

    @britainelects

    “Regardless of how you voted in the 2016 EU referendum, do you support or oppose the UK abiding by the referendum result and leaving the EU?”

    Support: 54%
    Oppose: 32%

    via @ComRes, 02 – 14 Oct
    16 Oct 2019

    @ComRes

    Results shows more than half (54%) of British public support the UK abiding by the referendum result and leaving the EU, regardless of the way they voted in the 2016 Referendum.

    16 Oct 2019

    It appears that there is a majority to leave the EU. And those are the diddled figures. You can swing it at least five per cent toward Leave for a more accurate figure.

    Please, I’ve been telling you for more than three years that we still want to leave. Stop kidding yourself otherwise.

  9. And those are the diddled figures. You can swing it at least five per cent toward Leave for a more accurate figure.

    Have you any evidence to support that Pete?

    In any case the polls you refer to are about honouring the referendum result, which of course I agree with. But polls have also shown a consistent pro-Remain majority since 2017, which is of course the reason for a “People’s Vote” where the ignorant xenophobic plebs will get the chance to take the advice of their betters and produce the right result at the second attempt:

    https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/should-the-united-kingdom-remain-a-member-of-the-european-union-or-leave-the-european-union-asked-after-the-referendum/

  10. From The Spectator tonight. It is always well-informed on Tory politics, but I disagree with the final sentence. If the DUP are the sole obstruction to a deal I suspect that Johnson may put it to the vote on Saturday anyway, mainly to flush out Labour as the main obstructors in Westminster, which they have been from the start, despite weasel words about “honouring” the referendum reslt. Then it will be a general election with Brexit as the main issue and Labour painted as enemies of the referendum result:

    “Firstly, it seems that the issues between the UK and the EU are largely resolved. Michel Barnier this evening briefed EU ambassadors that everything had been agreed other than how VAT should be treated in Northern Ireland. This article from RTÉ’s Europe editor Tony Connelly explains more. But the biggest sticking point is whether the deal is something that will get past the House of Commons. As James explains on Coffee House, the most important politicians on the European continent are Arlene Foster and Nigel Dodds. If they’re happy, then there will be a Brexit deal. And if not, then the deal won’t get through the Commons and is therefore almost certainly doomed. Currently, the DUP aren’t happy, and haven’t been persuaded by moves on the issue of consent – they are demanding that the new arrangements must have the backing of both unionists and nationalists in the Northern Ireland assembly. The government is very unlikely to even bother bringing a deal to the Commons if it doesn’t have the DUP’s support.”

  11. They are demanding that the new arrangements must have the backing of both unionists and nationalists in the Northern Ireland assembly

    That will fall at the first hurdle.

  12. I’ve reached the conclusion that our Pete is a fairly relaxed remainer, simply enjoying the circus of our national tangled Brexit turmoil. If article 50 was revoked tomorrow he would just shrug his shoulders and carry on watching the Rugby !

  13. Peter –

    But polls have also shown a consistent pro-Remain majority since 2017 ..

    They showed a consistent pro-remain majority prior to the referendum too, and they turned out to be stone cold wrong. They are wrong because public polling exists, in great part, to influence opinion and not reflect it. There is no way – no way – that support for leaving the EU has fallen since June 2016. It’s 52 per cent plus whatever extra support it has garnered since then.

    Colm –

    I will always watch the rugby, but a part of me would be relaxed about anti-democrats suppressing and annulling national opinion. It would mean Nigel Farage in Downing Street and the cleanest of Brexits.

  14. //It appears that there is a majority to leave the EU. //

    But no a majority to Leave completely, i.e. for a clean break, which is what I said.

    There’s no majority for anything.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-50043549

  15. Pete

    For what its worth I agree with you that a simple leave-remain vote would very likely produce the same result as 2016. But it could hardly be a simple re-run in 2020. If there is a second referendum it should have three options with a 1,2,3 preference voting system:

    1. Leave with Johnson’s deal
    2. Leave with no deal
    3. Remain

    On a preferential vote I think that option 1 would win easily as the last man standing after 2 and 3 are eliminated.

  16. Peter –

    What is this second referendum nonsense? It is Continuity Remain. We decided to leave the EU and that’s that. Anything else is worthy of boycotts and civil disobedience.

  17. Mark B,

    I am all for walking away. But as to who won what war I am passed caring. History can be fun but it is to the future we must always look.

    Sad w**kers always harp back to England past ‘glory days’. As if it has some sort of relevance now.

  18. What is this second referendum nonsense? It is Continuity Remain.

    Did you read what I posted?

  19. We can avoid all that simply by walking away and reminding them who won the war.

    Indeed…….

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/12bfdbb836ebfbcf3a1d3ef1e21b8650b00df5b257a0a5c27755bb225a3f11ec.png

  20. Great link Allan, that sorts it, you win. But why no Joos in the “photo” which I’m sure is 100% genuine from one of your Nazi sites?

  21. white smoke

    PM Boris Johnson says the UK and EU have agreed “great new deal” for Brexit

  22. //PM Boris Johnson says the UK and EU have agreed “great new deal” for Brexit//

    I wonder is there any established grading in the Trump-BoJo dictionary:

    – a great new deal – a wonderful new deal – a marvelous new deal – a tremendous new deal – an incredible new deal …..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EjF-I6aMc0

  23. Arlene Foster doesn’t sit in Westminster and was voted onto the NI Assembly by 8745 votes…yet she and her party seem to be dictating the future of the entire country. Good to see that we’re taking back control from the undemocratic EU!

  24. NI to remain in the EU customs union, Barnier says.

    Seems that only Jeremy Corbyn, the DUP and Jeremy Corbyn are against the deal now.

    Corbyn: “This sell out deal won’t bring the country together and should be rejected. The best way to get Brexit sorted is to give the people the final say in a public vote.”

    That doesn’t even make sense in itself. Does he mean that if a majority of the people voted to approve the deal, it would then not be a sell out and would bring the country together?

  25. = Seems that only Jeremy Corbyn, the DUP and Pete Moore

  26. “Seems that only Jeremy Corbyn, the DUP and Jeremy Corbyn are against the deal now.”

    And Jacob Rees Mogg, 2018 edition:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/StewartWood/status/1184413538351222785?s=20

    Oops.

    “NI to remain in the EU customs union, Barnier says.”

    UK law seems to say otherwise.

    I suppose they would just include something to repeal that but still.

  27. And Jo Maugham is already out of the traps to stop it using that law – which will put “no deal” folk in the interesting position of aligning with him to prevent the HOC from being allowed to vote to withdraw from EU.

  28. Bono had a much better team around him of election winners. He’s played a blinder. If this deal does not pass he goes into an election saying we had a deal but parliament refused. He’ll win easy the GE. Corbyn mumbling about workers rights or some other lazy bull just isn’t gonna be good enough .
    Labour shud vote for the deal

  29. //“Seems that only Jeremy Corbyn, the DUP and Jeremy Corbyn are against the deal now.”

    And Jacob Rees Mogg, 2018 edition://

    Well, he’s certainly changed his tune now that his man is in the chair. Today he was the one most strongly urging everyone to support the deal.

    But probably a lot of those who support it now may soon say it’s rubbish and blame the EU if it gets nowhere in the HoC.

  30. for you Pete

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHash5takWU

  31. Noel I think they have the numbers without the DUP, it’ll be close but there’s 18 Labour definites and the tory right are going for it , as they fear a referendum ( not an GE ) which might cancel it altogether. My money is it will scrape through on sat by a handful of votes .
    But there’s always amendments, the house will try to have it ratified by referendum in any event.

  32. I put the article up as a post Noel

  33. shoot wrong thread…… sorry