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TREACHEROUS SNAKES

By Pete Moore On October 19th, 2019

The withdrawal agreement as it stands is acceptable to the government. It is acceptable to the EU. It is acceptable to the ERG even, which confirmed that they will vote for it. The agreement is not perfect but it’s enough of a balanced deal to be acceptable to both the Tories’ most Brexity MPs and to Jean-Claude Juncker.

And in truth the country is so sick of this that it wants the deal to be ratified.

We voted to to leave the EU 1211 days ago. Today, MPs voted to extend that by another 90 days.

Too cowardly to allow a General Election or to revoke Article 50, they decidedd to extend this national agony because that’s all they can do.

They are the worst people in the world. The most duplicitous, deceitful, treacherous scum on the face of the planet.

40 Responses to “TREACHEROUS SNAKES”

  1. The amendment supports the deal, but says delay Brexit until all the necessary legislation is passed. What is your problem with it?

  2. The withdrawal agreement as it stands is acceptable to the government. It is acceptable to the EU. It is acceptable to the ERG even, which confirmed that they will vote for it. The agreement is not perfect but it’s enough of a balanced deal to be acceptable to both the Tories’ most Brexity MPs and to Jean-Claude Juncke

    But not to you?

    For the avoidance of doubt, I’m already against anything which might be agreed and ratified. We don’t need the EU’s permission to regain our independence. Anything concocted by them and the Tories is going to stink the room out.

    Any agreement will simply need to be repealed by the Farage government. We can avoid all that simply by walking away and reminding them who won the war.

  3. I don’t understand why anyone would wish for more delay at this point

    Why?

  4. The deal needs to be ratified and then changes need to be made to legislation to give it force and effect – the deal in and of itself has no force and effect without that legislation. There are 8 Parliamentary sitting days between now and the date the UK is supposed to leave the European Union by. It is possible, but unlikely, that the bill can be adequately passed in those 8 days.

  5. The United Kingdom parliament has passed an amendment that is expected to delay a decision on Prime Minister Boris Johnson’s Brexit deal.

    The parliament passed the Letwin amendment, which would halt support for Johnson’s deal until legislation is passed to avoid a no-deal exit from the European Union (EU).

    A senior government source told CNN earlier Saturday that if the amendment passed, the government would shelve the vote on the main deal.

    https://thehill.com/policy/international/europe/466573-british-parliament-passes-amendment-to-delay-brexit-decision

  6. //And in truth the country is so sick of this that it wants the deal to be ratified.//

    The same could also have been said for any of the May deal attempts, but like those “treacherous snakes” of today, you weren’t prepared to support those either.

    And I hope you remember this situation the next time you, or anyone else, may feel tempted to blame the EU for the impasse. This is the second deal the EU agreed with the British government; as with the previous one, the confusion, treachery and general pig-headedness are all on the British side.

    But you may get your wish after all. While the British snakes let you down, the “Stalinist” etc Europeans may save you: people here are now so utterly exasperated with the British parliament and the whole silly system there, that there are increasing calls for the UK to be kicked out of the EU at the end of October.

    This was a good deal for the UK and for Ireland. If it fails, it will be only because Labour wants an election to weaken the govt and other voices want a new referendum.

  7. Wow! DUP threatening a second referendum?

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1185557708155568134

  8. Johnson likely has the votes for a deal. There is a fear that sections of the ERG would have passed the deal today and then voted against the law to give it effect (or amended to remove sections of the deal they didn’t like). So the key thing to do, to avoid that happening, was to pass a slight delay until after the legislation is passed. That is what happened today.

  9. Seamus –

    That’s rubbish. An amendment could have been attached to the deal stating that a vote to approve it is conditional on the legislation getting through. These MPs have demonstrated that they can get a Bill into legislation in 24 hours when they want it done.

    Phantom –

    I don’t understand why anyone would wish for more delay at this point

    They don’t want to leave the EU and won’t allow us to leave to EU. They won’t vote for a General Election because they know they will be wiped out. They are too cowardly to revoke Article 50 because the country would erupt.

    All they have is extend extend extend, hoping that something will turn up.

    For all their talk that they just want a deal they prove time and time again that they don’t want a deal. They want to overturn the referendum but are too cowardly to actually do it.

  10. “An amendment could have been attached to the deal stating that a vote to approve it is conditional on the legislation getting through.”

    That is what this amendment was. Support for the deal, on the condition of it getting through Parliament, but that the UK stays in the EU until that happens. If the legislation is passed before 31 October then the UK leaves on the 31 October. If it isn’t passed then the UK stays until it is passed.

  11. “They don’t want to leave the EU and won’t allow us to leave to EU. “

    The government lost by 16. At least 10 of those are former Tory MPs who were kicked out of the party a few weeks ago who have indicated that they will back the deal but want to avoid a no deal as well.

    “They won’t vote for a General Election because they know they will be wiped out.”

    If Johnson agrees to an extension until the 31 January then there would be a general election declared the day after.

  12. //There is a fear that sections of the ERG would have passed the deal today and then voted against the law to give it effect //

    Mind you, I don’t think anyone can claim that BJ and his government are trustworthy and their promises can be believed.

    Less than a year ago, Johnson’s spoke directly to the DUP conference telling them that any deal in which Northern Ireland had to continue to follow EU rules would “leave Northern Ireland behind as an economic semi-colony of the EU and we would be damaging the fabric of the union with regulatory checks and even customs controls between GB and NI”.

  13. The majority in the House of Commons likely support Johnson’s deal. The majority in the House of Commons however don’t trust Johnson’s word on that deal. So they aren’t taken his assurances.

  14. Prominant ‘conservative commentator & Brexit activist’ says the DUP are nothing but a bunch of Lundys!

    https://twitter.com/darrengrimes_/status/1185551952735801344?fbclid=IwAR17TPrVkP8YMpxH7KfL7I2rGdSELoLLMHQMvW1AAowZVJPYs-C4SGzbA4U

    The world has turned upside down!!

  15. If Johnson agrees to an extension until the 31 January then there would be a general election declared the day after.

    Bullshit. They will vote for a referendum first then sit in Parliament for the 6 months at least that it will will take them to organise it.

    This treacherous parliament will simply not allow us to leave the EU. This is as plain as day. The Letwin Amendment was nothing more than grubby can-kicking.

  16. “Bullshit. They will vote for a referendum first then sit in Parliament for the 6 months at least that it will will take them to organise it.”

    They have already declared it is the threat of no deal, that the UK could leave the EU without a deal before an election could be concluded, that is preventing a general election. Pass a law banning no deal, extend until well after a general election period and then call the election.

  17. You have to admit tho’, Seamus, that a lot of the arguments – from Labour members – against the deal today were very phoney – environment protection, workers’ rights ……

    If you believe that only membership of the EU can guarantee those things and you don’t trust the UK parliament, then you have to support Remain.

  18. “If you believe that only membership of the EU can guarantee those things and you don’t trust the UK parliament, then you have to support Remain.”

    Absolutely. However it is worth pointing out that the deal agreed has two aspects – the Withdrawal Agreement (which contains, amongst other things, the Northern Ireland protocol – the renamed backstop) and the Political Declaration (which sets out the potential future relationship between the EU and the UK). The first is legally binding, the second is not. In May’s deal workers rights, environmental protections etc… were part of the Withdrawal Agreement, while in Johnson’s deal they have been moved to the Political Declaration. Effectively the change has been the movement of workers rights, environmental protections from the legally binding section to the “wouldn’t this be nice” section.

  19. It’s an unbelievable insult to their own country to say that future UK Parliaments can’t Be trusted to protect workers rights etc., that you need for in control in order to have rights

  20. ‘Enemies of the people’ activist judges and a treacherous parliament all conspiring to prevent the UK from leaving the EU.

    So it wasn’t a nefarious EU plot after all.

  21. I thought that the EU said that there would be no more extensions

    So how can the parliament ask for another extension after hearing that.

  22. Future UK Parliaments likely can’t be trusted. They are looking across the benches at Tories for a start. Saying to Labour that they should trust the Tories on workers rights is insane.

  23. “I thought that the EU said that there would be no more extensions”

    The EU said there is no need for further extensions, because there is a deal. They didn’t say no further extensions. In reality it is hard to envision the EU pulling the plug on the whole thing. If the Brits need time to make their mind up the EU will give them it.

  24. So the UK can’t be trusted to govern itself?

    That certainly is what they’re saying here.

    That the British will always elect bad governments , And that a foreign superstructure is needed to protect the British from themselves

    Boy I’ve heard it all now

  25. //So it wasn’t a nefarious EU plot after all.//

    Not yet. But if the deal gets bogged down in parliament or is rejected, then the deal will become a nefarious EU plot again.

  26. So it wasn’t a nefarious EU plot after all.

    too good, lol

    Not many people would get up from the count after that square on hit 🙂

  27. “So the UK can’t be trusted to govern itself?”

    They are the UK so the aren’t saying that. They are saying the Tories can’t be trusted to govern on these issues.

    “And that a foreign superstructure is needed to protect the British from themselves”

    It wouldn’t be a foreign superstructure. It would be an agreement between the EU and the UK. An agreement between the two, not one over the other.

  28. //They are looking across the benches at Tories for a start. Saying to Labour that they should trust the Tories on workers rights is insane.//

    But that’s how democracy is supposed to work. If the Tories make such unpopular decisions like diminishing workers’ rights, then they’ll be kicked out come the next GE.

    Very generally, Seamus, do you think a lot of this would have been avoided if the UK had a written constitution.

  29. “But that’s how democracy is supposed to work. If the Tories make such unpopular decisions like diminishing workers’ rights, then they’ll be kicked out come the next GE.”

    Sure. But Johnson made a deliberate choice to move the workers rights protections out of the Withdrawal Agreement and into the Political Declaration. You can’t expect Labour to happy at that. Labour are allowed to make their political choices based on what they want to make them on. Labour are pro-Remain, for all intents and purposes. They are definitely opposed to a Brexit that reduces workers rights. Johnson’s Brexit doesn’t necessarily reduce workers rights but it make it easier to do so.

    “Very generally, Seamus, do you think a lot of this would have been avoided if the UK had a written constitution.”

    I don’t see how for what it is worth. Very few countries, codified constitution or not, would have been able to deal with the clusterfuck that has been Brexit without huge stress and strain on their system. The UK’s constitution is broadly clear and I don’t see how codifying it would have made it clearer.

  30. That’s all very clever

    But the British people voted to get out of the EU. Shared that wish not be granted?

    And these guys are voting against exit on the premise that no future elected British governments will protect workers rights etc. It’s very hard to read it in any other way.

    The Tory government of today will not last forever. Vote for the government of your choice.Govern yourselves.

  31. “But the British people voted to get out of the EU. Shared that wish not be granted?”

    Switzerland, Norway etc… are not in the EU. They still follow EU law on workers rights. And in fact that model was heavily supported by the key leaders of the Leave campaign.

    “And these guys are voting against exit on the premise that no future elected British governments will protect workers rights etc.”

    They are voting against this particular exit, for other reasons but including because it makes it easier for this current British government to attack workers rights.

  32. But the British people voted to get out of the EU. Shared that wish not be granted?

    Yes and no Phantom. Prior to the referendum EVERY prominant Brexiteer made positive comments about not leaving the EEA, a Norway style agreement etc.

    If leaving the EU was a binary choice why did they say this?

  33. Repeal Article 50 . Then we can get on with normal life 😀

  34. Well one thing is clear the EU have behaved impeccably throughout this whole process.
    No more silly anti EU posts.
    Re:today it was the right thing to do to vote for the amendment. Whilst there was even a hint that perfidious Albion could have sneaked in a no-deal the agreement vote had to be postponed . A question of Trust.

  35. Well one thing is clear the EU have behaved impeccably throughout this whole process.

    As sensible non-partisan people here have always suggested Kurt.

  36. You cannot bullshit Andrew Neil.

    @afneil

    The Benn Act, forcing government to seek Brexit deadline extension in event of no deal, was drawn up in expectation of no deal. But Mr Johnson produced a deal. Hence scramble to come up with Letwin amendment, which forces extension even with deal.

    —–
    @NickBoles
    Replying to @afneil

    Huge respect for @afneil but this is mistaken. We simply overlooked the possibility that the government might win a Meaningful Vote (and thereby avoid having to request an extension) but then lose the implementing legislation so we would still leave with No Deal.

    —–
    @afneil

    Andrew Neil Retweeted Nick Boles MP

    Complicated post facto rationalisation. Much simpler is fact you never thought a deal could be done. And if it was you never thought there could be a majority for it. Hence fallback to new blocking mechanism. Ingenious and impressive.

  37. what’s the rush?

  38. What rush?

  39. The vote was 322 yea, 306 nay, a difference of 16. The DUP have 10 votes and voted yea. If they had voted nay the amendment would have been defeated. The tail is wagging the dog.

  40. Mairéad McGuinness, vice president of the European Parliament said that she will take her time before replying to the British application for an extension of the Brexit timetable.

    Meanwhile lawyers in the UK are apparently set to contest Johnson’s letter of request for extension. So the EU will have to wait anyway until the legal situation in the UK is settled.

    Normally, in a divorce the respondent is usually the one left in confusion and sorrow, but in this case it’s nice to know that that party is staying calm and confident.