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Today’s Funny

By Patrick Van Roy On November 2nd, 2019

238 Responses to “Today’s Funny”

  1. When did he run against Obama?

  2. Obama could and would smoke his ass, ole turnip should be thankful for term limits

  3. Obama Would easily beat Trump if he could run now

    The last time Obama ran, he won PA, OH, MI, and Wisconsin, all states that Trump won narrowly

  4. yeah sure all those unemployed union guys and galls whose work projects were prevented under Obama that are now working will rush to vote to lose their jobs….

    But we know Phantom Obama is your idol……. not so much that of the middle class working man….. Largest number of people on food stamps, largest amount of bankruptcies and foreclosures in history, yes the common man will run right out to vote to bring all that back.

  5. He makes a fair point.

  6. I never voted for Obama and I never voted for any Clinton. I’ve said that many times here. Please read.

    The economic recovery Happened under Obama. The bailout of General Motors and Chrysler , Which was a very smart use of government,happened under Obama. You And the other Trumpers here opposed it. You wanted those auto workers to starve in the name of your Crackpot ideology

    Obama, who again I never voted for – pay attention this time — Remains a popular figure nationally. He acted with personal dignity, in a way that your president has never acted

    Your reality Guy oversaw the closure of the Lordstown GM plant, His trade policies were the direct cause of Harley Davidson shifting production to Europe, His trade policies are the cause of large losses to American farmers as well

    But Please keep bowing and scraping Before the New York dilettante

  7. His quote makes no sense. He didn’t run for any office against neither Obama or either of the Bushes so what does his “they were easy” mean ?

  8. The Bankruptcies and foreclosures happened in the aftermath of the 2008 economic collapse that was the result of your Republican bank deregulation policies

    You praised the arsonists And you throw bricks at the firemen who put out the fire

    All these years later, you are still throwing bricks at the firemen

    Shame on you

    I still wouldn’t vote for Obama, but he’ was 100 times better president than Trump is

  9. Trump doesn’t make any sense at all

    But every time Trump farts in the bathtub, Patrick thinks it’s the Gettysburg address

  10. This is today’s funny:

    @SkyNews

    “@GretaThunberg appeals for help after finding out she has travelled halfway around the world “the wrong way” after the United Nations global climate meeting was moved from Chile to Madrid.”

    Greta row the boat ashore ..

    I really hope, I really really hope, that whoever moved it to Madrid waited until she almost for to Chile. That would be the most marvelous trolling.

  11. But every time Trump farts in the bathtub, Patrick thinks it’s the Gettysburg address

    🙂

  12. Obama tried to destroy his run for President by trying to frame him, and the presumed nominee was supposed to be Bush not Trump and he crushed him for the nomination…..

    The point people is he beat the others Obama & the Justice Dept, Bush who had over 100 million for the Primary, Hillary who was just entitled and assumed the winner until 8 o’clock election night…..

    So the idea that he would need aid from foreign countries to beat a senile old man who doesn’t know what state he’s in half the time is beyond stupid….

    But you guys continue, you’re quite amusing.

  13. So the idea that he would need aid from foreign countries to beat a senile old man

    But to be clear Patrick, even if he openly asked Putin for help on Fox and Friends tomorrow, that would be totally legal according to you?

  14. He didn’t run for any office against neither Obama or either of the Bushes so what does his “they were easy” mean ?

    Facts, words, accuracy. They all have no meaning to him.

    Obama tried to destroy his run for President by trying to frame him

    See above. Not based on any fact at all.

  15. @SkyNews

    “@GretaThunberg appeals for help after finding out she has travelled halfway around the world “the wrong way” after the United Nations global climate meeting was moved from Chile to Madrid.”…… Greta row the boat ashore ..

    That is funny

  16. Obama tried to destroy his run for President by trying to frame him

    See above. Not based on any fact at all.

    tell that to those who wind up indicted….

    He didn’t run for any office against neither Obama or either of the Bushes so what does his “they were easy” mean ?

    So then he can’t be charged for gathering info on Biden since if running against Bush in the Primary doesn’t count then anything in regards to Biden doesn’t count.

  17. Tell that to those who wind up indicted….

    Tomorrow, tomorrow. Always tomorrow.

    So then he can’t be charged for gathering info on Biden since if running against Bush in the Primary doesn’t count then anything in regards to Biden doesn’t count.

    What a bizzarre analogy.

  18. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=30knrJBeyr0

    A typical Trumper

  19. So the idea that he would need aid from foreign countries to beat a senile old man

    But to be clear Patrick, even if he openly asked Putin for help on Fox and Friends tomorrow, that would be totally legal according to you?

    Yes or no will be fine.

  20. You listen to trump speak at one of his hate rallies, and you think that Biden is senile one?

  21. no Paul

    Phantom HATE RALLIES…… So all those people attending his 20-50 thousand people rallies are all haters….. so the 64 Million that voted for him are all HATERS ?

    Do you understand how stupid and HATEFUL you are ?

    In your Trump Derangement Syndrome empty mind if you support Trump well you’re a HATER.

    Typical Democrat and NY Independent

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDYNVH0U3cs

  22. They go to wash the Freakshow

    Step right up get your ticket

  23. No Paul what?

  24. But to be clear Patrick, even if Trump openly asks Putin for help in 2020 on Fox and Friends tomorrow, that would be totally legal according to you?

    Yes or no will be fine. Third request, silence will be understood as yes.

  25. No it would not be Legal to just ask a foreign country for any kind of campaign aid. Whether that’s information or money.

    The only reason we the United States wants info on the Bidens is because they are investigating criminal acts. The information asked for on the Bidens has to do with a criminal case NOT because he’s a political rival.

  26. Here’s some clarification which ‘media’ omit for some reason……

    https://mass-shootings.info/

  27. The Trump campaign and its operatives did exchange campaign information with the Russians

    In the United States, and in Europe, and maybe in the Seychelle Islands

    No one AFAIK is disputing most of that

  28. The information asked for on the Bidens has to do with a criminal case NOT because he’s a political rival.

    Are you now admitting that Don Don did in fact ask for info on Joe Biden? Is Don Don now a dectective as well as POTUS? Wow, what a guy.

    Please give specific details and link to any investigation, criminal or otherwise, into Joe Biden.

  29. He asked them to cooperate with the AG not his campaign…. big difference.

  30. Who asked who what?

  31. third base….

  32. Paul read this in depth and you’ll understand the only events that matter everything else is background noise…..

    http://www.atangledweb.org/?p=80544#comment-761776

  33. and after that if you don’t get it then this is our conversation…… and I’m Abbot

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4t4PzWSLhqQ

  34. I don’t think that excuse will play pat
    “oh we asked ukraine to investigate biden cos he’s done wrong”
    its the request itself that breaks the law , not why they were asking for dirt/info
    that actually has no relevance, but if its your play its your play

  35. Pat, this is what I asked:

    Please give specific details and link to any investigation, criminal or otherwise, into Joe Biden

    What you link to above is 3.38 is an irrelevant Gish Gallop.

    You won’t link to an investigation into Joe Biden because bar the accusations of a man who lies as easily as he breathes there isn’t anything. There is no investigation, no charges and no crime and you are trying to conjure up some fictitious offence to attempt to cover up Don Don the Golden getting caught trying to solicit a foreign powers’ help against a domestic political rival.

  36. ok Kurt you first the request breaks no law, it’s asking Ukraine to cooperate in a Criminal investigation.

    Paul there are no links I could give you. Unlike the investigation into Trump there have been no leaks from Barr and his Team investigating the Obama Administration. It’s being done by the book.

    I can only follow patterns and behaviors. Either the Bidens will be charged or they won’t. If they are charged we will all know. If they are NOT charged we will get no details of what they were looking into.

    That is how a Criminal Investigation is supposed to work. Everything from the investigators is secret. It is actually illegal for it not to be secret that’s why when the press and anyone speaking about any case that’s being investigated all come from leaks…. to go on record about what someone is being investigated for is illegal and the person can be charged legally and sued civilly.

    By the evidence of Bidens activity and own words, the Transcript and Trumps words about it the conclusion that can be drawn is that the investigation exists.

    That’s the best I’ll ever be able to give you until the charges are filed.

  37. Either the Bidens will be charged or they won’t. If they are charged we will all know. If they are NOT charged we will get no details of what they were looking into.

    Or of course he won’t be charged as there was never an investigation, charges or crime.

    The only allegation of Biden being investigated comes from a proven habitual lying sleaze and any reasonable person would deduce that an absence of evidence of an investigation indicates that one doesn’t exist.

  38. and the transcript…..

  39. A transcript of Biden saying that he would withold aid if corruption wasn’t dealt with in the country, the position of the UK, IMF, EU, USA and domestic Uke politicians?

    Still no investigation, charges nor crime.

  40. no the transcript of Trump’s call…. Paul if you don’t want to believe he is under investigation…. then don’t.

    That’s up to you.

  41. He’s not and there no proof nor suggestion bar that from the lying sleaze that he is.

  42. Trump has sleaze investigating Trump’s political opponents, And they’re not investigating anybody else

    You’re actually proud of this activity ?

    There is no jury and no court in all the land that would reward any biased prosecution That emerges from this prosecutorial corruption

  43. Almost 50% support Trump’s impeachment and removal from office. It is obviously playing well for the Democrats and has clearly energised their base:

    “WASHINGTON — Exactly one year out from the 2020 general election, a majority of all Americans — or close to it — support impeaching President Donald Trump and removing him from office, disapprove of his job performance and back his top Democratic rivals in head-to-head matchups.

    Those are the findings from the latest national NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll, which was conducted amid the House Democrats’ impeachment inquiry against the president, after Trump’s decision to withdraw U.S. troops from Syria, and after the military raid that killed the leader of ISIS.”

    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/meet-the-press/nbc-wsj-poll-49-percent-now-back-trump-s-impeachment-n1075296

  44. and the transcript…..

    As you must know, we haven’t seen the transcript yet, just an edited version of it. Trump wants to read the full version as part of a fireside chat to the nation.

  45. Barr is investigating CRIMES that took place under Obama. There is a Criminal investigation going on.

    You can all whine all you want, but the Obama Administration committed crimes, Biden is part of the CRIMINAL investigation.

    Now you can all get excited over an impeachment that just like the Mueller investigation has no originating crime all you want, but just as I was willing to accept anything Mueller would have found you’ll have to accept what Barr finds.

    The Mueller investigation found nothing no charges were filed against Trump or anyone involved in the Trump campaign in regards to russian collusion or anything involved with Trump…. get over it.

    Where Mueller failed Barr already has enough evidence to seat a Federal Grand Jury and take the case into the criminal phase.

    So deny all you want.

  46. Biden is part of the CRIMINAL investigation.

    There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever to suggest that barring the allegations of the sleazebag liar.

  47. Barr is investigating CRIMES that took place under Obama.

    Barr is a disgrace to his office. He is acting as Trump’s attorney, not the attorney general.

  48. The Mueller investigation found nothing no charges were filed against Trump or anyone involved in the Trump campaign in regards to russian collusion or anything involved with Trump

    No, Mueller listed ten cases of obstruction of justice by Trump and subsequently confirmed that they were not indicted only because as a sitting president Trump is above the law:

    “Although the special counsel’s report on Russian interference does not come to a conclusion as to whether President Trump obstructed justice, Robert Mueller’s team did examine 10 “discrete acts” in which he may have done so.

    The report says these 10 instances can be divided into “two phases, reflecting a possible shift in the president’s motives.” The first phase took place before Mr. Trump fired his first FBI director, James Comey, after he had been reassured he was not personally under investigation. After Comey’s dismissal and Mueller’s appointment as special counsel, the report indicates, the president knew he was now under investigation for possibly obstructing justice, and switched gears.

    “At that point, the president engaged in a second phase of conduct, involving public attacks on the investigation, non-public efforts to control it, and efforts both in public and private to encourage witnesses not to cooperate with the investigation,” the report states.

    Here are the 10 times, according to the Mueller report, that Mr. Trump may have obstructed justice…”

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/obstruction-of-justice-10-times-trump-may-have-obstructed-justice-mueller-report/

  49. Peter even the Democrats in Congress didn’t pursue any Obstruction from the Mueller report… ever ask yourself why ?

  50. ever ask yourself why ?

    Because as a sitting president Trump is above the law?

  51. Peter even the Democrats in Congress didn’t pursue any Obstruction from the Mueller report… ever ask yourself why ?

    For the reason that Mueller stated: a sitting president is above the law.

    But he can be impeached for bribing Ukraine to help him against Biden.

  52. This will be nowhere near enough to satisfy the GOP lynch-mob, led by President Liar:

    “WASHINGTON — The whistle-blower who touched off an impeachment inquiry with his explosive complaint about President Trump’s effort to pressure Ukraine to investigate his political rivals is willing to answer House Republicans’ written questions, his legal team said on Sunday.”

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/03/us/politics/whistleblower-impeachment-trump.html?smtyp=cur&smid=tw-nytimes

  53. Pat I think all the points you make about the legitimacy of the president to ask for help from a foreign leader will be tested.
    We’ll find the scope
    Find the limits within the law.
    There is a line and has Trump crossed. This is what will be tested openly and we’ll see .

  54. You have a Republican Senate that wouldn’t convict him if he shot Mother Theresa in the head on Christmas morning

    Always, always they will have excuses for everything

    He will be shamed By the trial, But he will brazen it out, And his Moonie followers Will claim that the fact that a republican senate did not convert him means that he has been exonerated! They will say it here!

    Take it to the bank

  55. Phantom what’s your assessment of the senators chances of winning re election ? I’ve read many are tanking . I think the word was support has cratered . They’ll ditch trump if the wind blows that way . Self interest .
    I mean imagine if Trump lost the Senate majority ?

  56. Convict!!

  57. I haven’t studied it well enough

    I think that in most of the red states, Senators that stick with the Trump are in good shape

  58. Regardless of the merits or not of any impeachment enquiry, Given that Elected congress and Senate members wil in almost all cases vote on party lines for or against a President accused regardless of evidence, I wonder I what other ATW regulars think of the idea of having impeachment hearings heard instead and decided on by a panel of Judges , perhaps a ‘ Grand Supreme’ special court made up of the existing Supremes and say ten other senior judges from around the country ?

  59. I would not want to go down that convoluted route

    The current system is unjust, But there is a system where by the voters can get rid of him in a years time

    It’s a rigged system, but there is a way to do it, If the Democrats don’t take defeat from the jaws of victory, which they probably will do

  60. He will be shamed By the trial, But he will brazen it out, And his Moonie followers Will claim that the fact that a republican senate did not convert him means that he has been exonerated! They will say it here!

    Put the pan on for it.

  61. Patrick and Pete can take the next 12 months off

    We know what they will say, and we can type in the words for them

    Exonerated! Clean as a whistle!

  62. I used to think it was only the criminal justice system was fucked in the US. It now seems that all forms of judicial tribunal are pretty much rigged.

  63. Ours is better in UK in one sense as regards laws they go to the upper house and get sent back with any concerns lords have.
    What really should be the USA Constitution is the House impeaches and the Senate can ask for further reassurance raise concerns which the House has to pass like amendments . Then Senate is duty bound to confirm

  64. That’s accountability . Not so if senate has same debate reaching diff conclusion. In facts that is a Nuts way of operating

  65. You have a Republican Senate that wouldn’t convict him if he shot Mother Theresa in the head on Christmas morning

    Ain’t that the truth though. And Patrick would agree with them because he is 100% that the president is above the law.

  66. yes you do know what I’ll say.

    I’ll say what are the facts….

    Fact number one the Democrats are moving forward with impeachment in the House even though they have yet to find a crime and they don’t care if they ever find one.

    Fact number two Phantom says the Senate won’t convict. He’s basing that on the fact that you’d need 19 Republicans to vote against Trump. Well he’s more confident than me, there are already 3 Republican Senators that have declared they’d vote to impeach…. I don’t trust the bastards to not vote to convict. There are only a half dozen I would guarantee not to vote to convict. The rest I wouldn’t bet on.

    Fact number three believe or don’t believe what you want about who’s being investigated or why. Indictments are coming in regard to the Justice Departments behavior during the lead up to the last Presidential elections.

    Fact number four once those indictments hit no one knows what direction this insanity is going to go, but whichever way it goes it’s going to get a hell of a lot more vicious.

  67. UK solved the problem USA have
    the commons brought in the Parliament Act 1911, where the Lords’ power to reject legislation was reduced to a delaying power.

    Pat I think soon it will be i
    n black and white exactly what the crime Trump is alleged to have done. Unfair of you to claim it’s nothing.Many hold the view it’s crystal clear he’s violated the constitution. Don’t know if you care about such matters

  68. He isn’t above the law if he’s acting ultra vires as per Clinton v. Jones (1997)

    Fact number five there is no investigation, charge nor crime against Joe Biden.

  69. Paul repeating number five makes it so .
    That’s the new dispensation 🤣

  70. But to be clear Patrick, even if “quid pro quo” is admitted by Trump that wouldn’t be impeachable. Because according to you the threat to withold military aid to Ukraine (against Russia) was made because Trump is a fearless anti-corruption campaigner and Biden may be corrupt. It had nothing whatsoever to do with Trump’s campaign for re-election next year, or Trump’s love for Putin.

    It’s funny, but Trump’s campaign manager Paul Manafort was convicted of corruption involving Ukraine, and I don’t recall Trump encouraging that investigation. As I recall it, he supported Manafort the whole way, then threw him under the bus when the verdict came in.

  71. In the Watergate era, Nixon faced Republican senators who had principle

    Trump has no such problem now. Romney will vote his conscience, It is highly and likely that any other Republican senator will

  72. “Fact number one the Democrats are moving forward with impeachment in the House even though they have yet to find a crime and they don’t care if they ever find one.”

    True fact number one: The President doesn’t have to be guilty of a criminal offence to be served with articles of impeachment.

    The term “high crimes and misdemeanors” does not mean felonies and misdemeanors. It means high crimes and high misdemeanors. High crimes are not high in the sense of being serious or extreme. They do not even have to be criminal acts, although they may be. A high crime, as understood in English law (from which it originates), is misconduct carried out by an official with high responsibilities.

    The first person in history to be charged (and convicted) of high crimes and misdemeanors was the Lord Chancellor and Lord Keeper of the Great Seal Michael de la Pole, Earl of Suffolk in 1386. He failed to pay a ransom to spare a town from a French sacking. There was no criminal misbehaviour on his part. But he failed to do what was seen as his duty and as such committed a high crime.

    Andrew Johnson, for example, was impeached not for criminal misconduct, but for, what was seen by the Radicals at the time, political misconduct (his failure to abide by the terms of an Act of Congress, an act that was later not only repealed but found to be unconstitutional). There was never any suggestion that Andrew Johnson committed a criminal offence.

    As Alexander Hamilton, writing as Publius, noted it is “those offenses which proceed from the misconduct of public men, or, in other words, from the abuse or violation of some public trust. They are of a nature which may with peculiar propriety be denominated political, as they relate chiefly to injuries done immediately to the society itself”.

    To put it more simply, regardless of any criminal statute, as the then House Minority Leader Gerald Ford put it “an impeachable offence is whatever a majority of the House of Representatives considers it to be at a given moment in history”.

  73. As always, when it comes to cutting through the politicised fat to get to the detailed meat of political facts, Seamus wins game set and match every time 😄

  74. Impeachment of a president is a very serious matter. It leaves an indelible stain on the one impeached. And, it is what goes into the history books.

    Soon it will be on all media and a major topic of discussion both in the US and around the world. Impeachment itself is the nation saying to the president ‘shame on you’. Even if Trump escapes conviction in the senate, the shame will always be there whenever his name is mentioned.

    He brought this on himself because of his pride. If after the telephone call became known he said ‘I made a mistake and it won’t happen again’ I believe there would not be impeachment, but make-believe tough guys never say they made a mistake. More shame on him for not saying he made a mistake and putting the nation through this trauma.

  75. lol I love this, this took craft to plot

    Peter, on November 3rd, 2019 at 10:28 PM Said: Edit Comment
    But to be clear Patrick, even if “quid pro quo” is admitted by Trump that wouldn’t be impeachable. Because according to you the threat to withold military aid to Ukraine (against Russia) was made because Trump is a fearless anti-corruption campaigner and Biden may be corrupt. It had nothing whatsoever to do with Trump’s campaign for re-election next year, or Trump’s love for Putin.

    do they spoon feed you this drible…. it amazes me how small the internet has made the world. Spin here is spin there,,,,,

    The only people with connection to the soviets and Putin is a Soviet are the Democrats Peter. The party has believed since red october that the only thing wrong with the soviets is they weren’t running and if they had been it would never have collapsed.

    Just as Kennedy worked with them against Reagan, Hillary worked with them against Trump… both failed except in this case people are gonna go to jail.

  76. Seamus that was beautiful.

    As I said fact the Democrats are going to impeach with or without a crime.

    The wild card in this whole circus is that as of today my time zone Nov 3rd… the Election is exactly one year away.

    The Judge and Jury for both sides will be the people and our vote.

    The Democrats missed their window of opportunity to remove him before the election. All they have is to try and convince the voters that he’s not worthy.

    So they need a real crime and so far they’ve struck out.

  77. NYr that is such a load of bull…. he brought this on himself… yeah he did he won and the pathetic left cant handle that. This isn’t the people calling for impeachment this is the bubble calling for it and you my friend are lost in that bubble.

    The Bi-Partisan consensus was not to proceed…. but the brain dead left hold enough of a majority they needed no support for this farce.

    The people will judge who is right.

  78. Not so fast pat . You need to come out where we can see you . No sharps pokes or sticks please .
    Impeachment is upon us it’s going to be long and tortured . I’m not sure gutless bonespurs can survive the pressure of the roasting.
    He may well be forced to resign.
    Many moons after 12 in fact is the long distant election. Got a year to get through buster. I don’t think so

  79. https://edition.cnn.com/2019/11/03/media/joe-walsh-fox-news-reliable-sources/index.html?fbclid=IwAR3GeWbzGR7oueJ5vUK_v6yTHo0KBfFCHoMfEai8uRBm25FWa2Th1lZYTgM

    Joe Walsh saying what we been saying for weeks.fox news shock jocks lying to the American people every day. This is a bad play anndt is not gonna end well

  80. NYr that is such a load of bull…. he brought this on himself

    Of course he brought it on himself. He brought it on himself by attempting to solicit foreign help against a political rival when he witheld aid from the Ukraine before asking them to investigate Joe Biden and inferred his influence on a trade deal with the Chinese when he asked them to do the same.

    Here’s Don Don the Golden Sleaze showing his vast knowledge of geo-politics and meddling in other countries’ elections:

    https://news.sky.com/story/donald-trump-claims-jeremy-corbyn-would-be-so-bad-for-uk-ahead-of-election-11850422

  81. Holy fuck. The man really is a baboon

    Nearly 100,000 acres have been destroyed by wildfires in recent weeks, and thousands have been forced from their homes.

    Mr Trump blamed Governor Gavin Newsom, a Democrat, saying he had done a “terrible job of forest management”.

    Several of this year’s major wildfires have burned in unforested areas

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-50284656

    Really. Twitter is a WMD in his hands.

  82. Trump is a cheap-shot artist, who knows nothing about California.

    Wildfires have always been part of the California ecological system. The Spanish explorers observed major wildfires in the 1500s, and wrote about them.

  83. Trump assigns blame to others and credit to himself. He’s never self-critical, never finds fault in anything he does.

  84. yes seimi its very deceiving that lack of self-criticism both to himself and the followers.
    i know politics is all about providing cover , but this guy has pushed his luck too far.
    need a slow slow process of impeachment, careful scrutiny . time almost has to stand still so there is room for trump and fox and followers to face it.
    pat here an experienced observer of these matters over years remains in denial.
    we got a long way to go before claiming any sort of victory.
    I’ve noticed one of their tricks to avoid the present tense
    GOP think they have the past covered – hints of BIden Obama Trials and Muller
    And the future the election 2020, the last bastion is to say its all about the election.|

    Present tense avoiders, why ? cos its so frigging tense for them and they can’t face it !

  85. ahh just what i was looking for:

    The Republicans have a high Beady-Eyed Self-Righteous Scary Borderline Loon Quotient, as evidenced by Phyllis Schlafly, Pat Robertson, the entire state of Utah, etc.

    Republicans awaiting the impeachment hearings – sweating

  86. kurt

    Utah Republicans are real conservatives.

    Trump is not popular at all in that very red state.

    https://www.sltrib.com/news/politics/2018/10/08/no-state-has-seen/

  87. Did he(Trump) lie to us

    Crickey I need a drink

    Oh shit they arrested Rudy

    Pat lemme know if I’m drilling through your eye-ball 😉

  88. lol phantom i got a rude reply to that link

    We’re sorry. The Salt Lake Tribune’s web site, sltrib.com, is unavailable in the European Union. We are working with lawyers on compliance with the European Union’s General Data Protection Requirements, and we expect to sltrib.com to be available once that is done. Thank you for your patience.

  89. Washington • A new poll shows that among the states, Utah has recorded the most dramatic drop in approval for President Donald Trump.

    The poll, conducted by the news outlet Morning Consult, surveyed voters in every state and compared it with the numbers from when Trump took office in January 2017. The president’s support has declined nationwide, but in only three states — Utah, Arizona and New Mexico — has Trump gone from at least 50 percent approval to a majority disapproval.

    In Utah, about 58 percent of residents approved of the president when he was inaugurated but now 50 percent oppose him. Only 45 percent still back the president, the survey shows. Morning Consult created a net change rating, adding the drop in approval to the rise in disapproval. Utah scored a 32, the highest of any state, and something the White House occupant probably wouldn’t be happy to see in one of the reddest states in the union.

    ( October 2018, and it hasn’t changed sine then )

    Trump’s demeanor, his conduct, his words are not at all acceptable to Mormons.

    When you run around cursing, implying that Mexicans are a bunch of rapists, and calling other countries ” shitholes ” they do not accept that one bit.

    Very many Mormons have served as missionaries in foreign countries. They like and understand Mexicans and south Americans, they don’t hate them at all.

  90. (edit)

    When you run around lying and cursing, when you strongly imply that a high percentage of Mexicans are rapists, when you call other countries ” shitholes ” Mormons do not accept that one bit. The evangelicals accept that behavior from Trump now, the Mormons do not.

  91. oh wow this submission just knocks the GOP ( past focus ) out, its a total KO

    The DOJ has finally released some of the investigation materials behind the Mueller report, and we now know where the entire “Ukraine interfered in the 2016 elections” story came from — Paul Manafort. Given that much of the Democrats’ drive toward impeachment centers around Donald Trump’s pressure on Ukraine President Zelensky, the timing couldn’t be more perfect. It is a completely false narrative, and Donald Trump risked his presidency on it, though the true reason for his pressure on Ukraine was to stop Joe Biden

  92. //Very many Mormons have served as missionaries in foreign countries. They like and understand Mexicans and south Americans, they don’t hate them at all.//

    Well said. We’ve all bumped into them all over the place, and while their brand of religion is something very weird, you won’t meet a more civil, dignified and respectful bunch of people.

    They are conservatives and, like all true conservatives, Trumpism is obviously something they totally reject.

  93. I saw the Book of Mormon in London.

    I thought it the most unfunny piece that I’ve ever seen, just intolerant mockery of Mormonism and Mormons from the opening curtain.

    Trey Parker saw a group of people that he didn’t like, a group that wouldn’t bomb him for making mocking them, and he ran with it.

  94. hi phantom

    If you have time a thread on Trumps tax returns would be very interesting
    esp after todays announcement:

    Trump will ask Supreme Court to take New York tax returns case after losing appeal

    https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/04/trump-loses-appeal-of-new-york-tax-returns-case.html

  95. I wonder why Don Don’s so obstinate about not having his tax returns scrutinised? It’s almost like he has something to hide.

    Well said. We’ve all bumped into them all over the place, and while their brand of religion is something very weird, you won’t meet a more civil, dignified and respectful bunch of people

    Yep, along with the Quakers, for me the closest to my understanding of what Christianity should be. The Quakers I have met in my life have always been hugely generous, humble & humane down to litterally every last one of them.

  96. Yes.

    And all through their history, AFAIK, the Quakers have been like that.

    Including in famine times in Ireland, when they did all that they possibly could to aid people, without asking anyone to switch religions in return, etc.

  97. Yeah i like the quakers, no chiefs, they’ve managed without popes n stuff for as long as they’ve been around. Telling the truth however bad it is would be very much part of their approach.

    Man there is so much news
    On Thursday morning, CBS announced the hiring of Catherine Herridge, who recently left Fox after working there for 23 years. Herridge was Fox’s chief intelligence correspondent and has extensive experience, making her an attractive get for CBS News. There, she’ll serve as a senior investigative correspondent covering national security and intelligence

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zv-wbw12L70

    see how she sticks to the facts, someone must have said to her
    hey cat can we go easy of the facts please, we want to give our viewers the opportunity to eat our bullshit and you’re not helping. Facts goddamit, you want facts go some place else

  98. Fox had potential, potential that has completely squandered.

    Except when Chris Wallace is on the air.

  99. that’s it Trump is doomed they’ll have him drawn and quartered on the plaza in front of the Washington monument….. how dare he be President….

    Kurt never ever quote joe walsh the politician….. you can quote the musician but the former failed politician failed radio host is a schlub……

    Its all now who puts on the best show between now and the election.

    Ronald Reagan was the master of Optics even if you hated him you couldn’t watch him give a speech without feeling the Americana and Reagan was hated for achieving great things and for his Americana.

    Donald Trump on the other hand is achieving great things and is under even harder of an attack than Reagan was except Trump does not have Reagan’s gift no he’s more carney barker with a huge swash of Jonathan E https://i.pinimg.com/originals/76/98/6d/76986d2b1b202d3869895a01c88e713a.jpg

    Ladies and gentleman 2 men enter one man leaves….. Dyin time is here

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHU6K47qgc8

  100. lol pat, a lil premature methinks, re-run that next september
    ( clue: 10 months time )
    there’s GOP challengers wanting to be President, there the Dems to pick their nominee
    I know you want it to be Nov 2020 , but sorry to break it to you its Nov 2019
    shock / horror / spoiler alert

    When did GOP flip to loving Russia and North Korea

  101. How dare he be President….

    Errrr, nope:

    How dare he be President….

    and attempt to solicit foreign help against a political rival when he witheld aid from the Ukraine before asking them to investigate Joe Biden and inferred his influence on a trade deal with the Chinese when he asked them to do the same.

    Those things happened, didn’t they?

  102. la la la I can’t hear you paul see my fingers, nope not hearing you at all
    Are you saying something? What

  103. the main reason USA Right can’t face the present moment is the daily revelation of just what a bastard they have in their President.
    looking back to 2016 or forward to 2020 is all they got , oh and put the tin-foil hat on for a year .. lmao

    This today :

    Impeachment transcript reveals Donald Trump’s psychotic plot against U.S. Ambassador Marie Yovanovitch

    Suffice it to say that what Donald Trump did to Marie Yovanovitch is nothing short of psychotic. Yovanovitch says she was told that when she was being recalled as U.S. Ambassador, she had to immediately leave Ukraine because her “security” was in danger, though the Trump regime refused to expand on what this was supposed to mean. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo then told her that he was “no longer” able to protect her from Donald Trump, another mafia-like threat against her safety. When Yovanovitch asked Gordon Sondland what she should do, he suggested tweeting something nice about Trump.

    This provides a whole new context for Donald Trump’s remark to Ukrainian President Zelensky that Yovanovitch was “going to go through some things” after he had already removed her from the job. Not only did Trump fire her and threaten her security, he then vowed to punish her further. What’s remarkable is that Yovanovitch’s only sin was that she wasn’t corrupt, and she was therefore standing in the way of the criminal corruption plot that Trump and Rudy Giuliani were hatching in Ukraine to try to rig the 2020 U.S. election.

    https://www.palmerreport.com/analysis/transcript-psychotic-marie-yovanovitch-trump/22653/

  104. Perhaps the greatest description of Don Don I have ever read:

    https://www.redlakenationnews.com/story/2019/10/21/features/british-writer-pens-the-best-description-of-trump-ive-read/84189.html?fbclid=IwAR3ttUt8SzCA2brhE_tnqI0hz8siUblx4F3x_PD6abcrVv6yNhcMrbfHVVg

  105. Brilliant! 😂

  106. yeah I like that too, thanks

    “In fact, if Frankenstein decided to make a monster assembled entirely from human flaws – he would make a Trump”

  107. I think that:

    //If being a twat was a TV show, Trump would be the boxed set//

    Is probably my favourite.

  108. Hunter Biden’s Ukraine gas firm pressed Obama administration to end corruption allegations, memos show

    Hunter Biden and his Ukrainian gas firm colleagues had multiple contacts with the Obama State Department during the 2016 election cycle, including one just a month before Vice President Joe Biden forced Ukraine to fire the prosecutor investigating his son’s company for corruption, newly released memos show.

    During that February 2016 contact, a U.S. representative for Burisma Holdings sought a meeting with Undersecretary of State Catherine A. Novelli to discuss ending the corruption allegations against the Ukrainian firm where Hunter Biden worked as a board member, according to memos obtained under a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit. (I filed that suit this summer with the help of the public interest law firm the Southeastern Legal Foundation.)

    Just three weeks before Burisma’s overture to State, Ukrainian authorities raided the home of the oligarch who owned the gas firm and employed Hunter Biden, a signal the long-running corruption probe was escalating in the middle of the U.S. presidential election.

    Hunter Biden’s name, in fact, was specifically invoked by the Burisma representative as a reason the State Department should help, according to a series of email exchanges among U.S. officials trying to arrange the meeting. The subject line for the email exchanges read simply “Burisma.”

    “Per our conversation, Karen Tramontano of Blue Star Strategies requested a meeting to discuss with U/S Novelli USG remarks alleging Burisma (Ukrainian energy company) of corruption,” a Feb. 24, 2016, email between State officials read. “She noted that two high profile U.S. citizens are affiliated with the company (including Hunter Biden as a board member).

    “Tramontano would like to talk with U/S Novelli about getting a better understanding of how the U.S. came to the determination that the company is corrupt,” the email added. “According to Tramontano there is no evidence of corruption, has been no hearing or process, and evidence to the contrary has not been considered.”

    At the time, Novelli was the most senior official overseeing international energy issues for State. The undersecretary position, of which there are several, is the third-highest-ranking job at State, behind the secretary and deputy secretary. And Tramontano was a lawyer working for Blue Star Strategies, a Washington firm that was hired by Burisma to help end a long-running corruption investigation against the gas firm in Ukraine.

    Tramontano and another Blue Star official, Sally Painter, both alumni of Bill Clinton’s administration, worked with New York-based criminal defense attorney John Buretta to settle the Ukraine cases in late 2016 and 2017. I wrote about their efforts previously here.

    Burisma Holdings records obtained by Ukrainian prosecutors state the gas firm made a $60,000 payment to Blue Star in November 2015.

    The emails show Tramontano was scheduled to meet Novelli on March 1, 2016, and that State Department officials were scrambling to get answers ahead of time from the U.S. embassy in Kiev.

    The records don’t show whether the meeting actually took place. The FOIA lawsuit is ongoing and State officials are slated to produce additional records in the months ahead.

    But the records do indicate that Hunter Biden’s fellow American board member at Burisma, Devon Archer, secured a meeting on March 2, 2016 with Secretary of State John Kerry. In addition to serving on the Burisma board, Archer and Hunter Biden were partners at an American firm known as Rosemont Seneca.

    “Devon Archer coming to see S today at 3pm – need someone to meet/greet him at C Street,” an email from Kerry’s office manager reads. “S” is a shorthand frequently used in State emails to describe the Secretary of State. The memos don’t state the reason for the meeting.

    Tramontano, a lawyer for Hunter Biden, Archer and Joe Biden’s campaign did not return messages seeking comment on Monday.

    In an interview with ABC News last month, Hunter Biden said he believed he had done “nothing wrong at all” while working with Burisma but “was it poor judgment to be in the middle of something that is…a swamp in — in — in many ways? Yeah.”

    Whatever the subject of the Archer-Kerry meeting, its existence is certain to spark interest. That’s because Secretary Kerry’s stepson, Christopher Heinz, had been a business partner with both Archer and Hunter Biden at the Rosemont Seneca investment firm in the United States.

    Heinz, however, chose not to participate in the Burisma dealings. In fact, he wrote an email to his stepfather’s top aides in May 2014, pointedly distancing himself from the decision by Hunter Biden and Devon Archer to join Burisma’s board.

    Heinz’s spokesman recently told The Washington Post that Heinz ended his relationship with Archer and Hunter Biden partly over the Burisma matter. “The lack of judgment in this matter was a major catalyst for Mr. Heinz ending his business relationships with Mr. Archer and Mr. Biden,” Heinz spokesman Chris Bastardi told the newspaper

    A person who assisted Blue Star and Buretta in settling the Burisma matters in Ukraine told me in an interview that the late February 2016 overture to State was prompted by a dramatic series of events in Ukraine that included when that country’s top prosecutor escalated a two-year probe into Burisma and its founder, the oligarch Mykola Zlochevsky.

    Zlochevsky’s gas firm hired Hunter Biden and Archer as board members for Burisma Holdings in spring 2014, around the time that British officials opened corruption investigations into Zlochevsky’s gas firm for actions dating to 2010 before Hunter Biden and Archer joined the firm. Ukraine officials opened their own corruption probe in August 2014.

    A firm called Rosemont Seneca Bohai began receiving monthly payments totaling more than $166,000 from Burisma Holdings in May 2014, bank records show. The records show Devon Archer was listed as a custodian for the Rosemont Seneca Bohai firm and that Hunter Biden received payments from it. You can read those bank records here.

    In September 2015, then-U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Geoffrey Pyatt gave a speech imploring Ukrainian prosecutors to do more to bring Zlochevsky to justice, according to published reports at the time.

    By early 2016 the Ukrainian investigation had advanced enough that then-Prosecutor General Viktor Shokin authorized a court-ordered seizure of Zlochevsky’s home and other valuables, including a luxury car. That seizure occurred on Feb. 2, 2016, according to published reports in Ukraine.

    The same day that the Zlochevsky seizure was announced in Ukraine, Hunter Biden used his Twitter account to start following Deputy Secretary of State Tony Blinken, a longtime national security adviser to Vice President Joe Biden who was promoted to the No. 2 job at State under Secretary John Kerry.

    The Feb. 4, 2016 Twitter notification from Hunter Biden to Blinken was captured by State email servers and turned over to me as part of the FOIA release.

    Within a few weeks of Tramontano’s overture to Novelli and of Archer’s overture to Kerry, Vice President Joe Biden took a stunning action, one that has enveloped his 2020 campaign for president in controversy.

    By his own admission in a 2018 speech, Joe Biden used the threat of withholding $1 billion in U.S. aid to strong-arm Ukraine into firing Shokin, a prosecutor that he and his office knew was investigating Burisma.

    Biden has said he forced Shokin’s firing because he and Western allies believed the prosecutor wasn’t aggressive enough in fighting corruption.

    Shokin disputes that account, telling both me and ABC News that he was fired specifically because he would not stand down from investigating Burisma. In fact, Shokin alleges, he was making plans to interview Hunter Biden about his Burisma work and payments when he got the axe.

    Ukraine prosecutors have said they do not believe the Bidens did anything wrong under Ukraine law. But some of the country’s prosecutors made an effort in 2018 to get information about Burisma to the U.S. Justice Department because they believed American prosecutors might be interested in some activities under U.S. law. You can read about that effort here.

    Some experts and officials have been quoted in reports saying Joe Biden’s actions created the appearance of a conflict of interest, something all U.S. government officials are supposed to avoid. The questions about conflicts were previously raised in a 2015 article by the New York Times and the 2018 book Secret Empires by author Peter Schweizer.

    The new evidence of contacts between Burisma, Hunter Biden and Archer at State are certain to add a new layer of intrigue to the debate. Those contacts span back to at least spring 2015, the new memos show.

    On May 22, 2015, Hunter Biden emailed his father’s longtime trusted aide, Blinken, with the following message: “Have a few minutes next week to grab a cup of coffee? I know you are impossibly busy, but would like to get your advice on a couple of things, Best, Hunter.”

    Blinken responded the same day with an “absolutely” and added, “Look forward to seeing you.”

    The records indicate the two men were scheduled to meet the afternoon of May 27, 2015.

    The State Department records also indicate Hunter Biden met Blinken in person for lunch on July 22, 2015, when State officials gave the name of a person to meet to help him enter the building. “He has the VIP pin and can escort you upstairs for your lunch with Tony,” the email said.

    The emails don’t indicate whether the meeting had to do with Burisma or one of Hunter Biden’s other interests.

    But they clearly show that Hunter Biden, his business partner and Burisma’s legal team were able to secure contacts inside the State Department, including to one of his father’s most trusted aides, to Secretary Kerry and to the agency’s top energy official.

    The question now is: Did any of those contacts prompt further action or have anything to do with Joe Biden’s conduct in Ukraine in March 2016 when he forced Shokin’s firing?

  109. Who wrote those comments

  110. John Solomon

    https://johnsolomonreports.com/hunter-bidens-ukraine-gas-firm-pressed-obama-administration-to-end-corruption-allegations-memos-show/

  111. Who wrote those comments

    It’s was claimed on this guy’s blog yesterday:

    https://www.mediamatters.org/john-solomon/how-conservative-writer-john-solomon-served-conduit-rudy-giulianis-ukraine-conspiracy

    And has been picked up by every other right wing Trumpeteer muck throwing job.

  112. John Solomon has been working on the Trump frame up case for over 2 years. This is who he is.

    Executive Vice President
    The Hill
    Jul 2017 – Present2 years 5 months

    Washington, District Of Columbia

    Circa News
    Chief Creative Officer
    Circa News
    Jan 2016 – Present3 years 11 months

    Washington D.C. Metro Area

    The Washington Times
    Editor and Vice President for Content and Business Development
    The Washington Times
    Jan 2013 – Dec 20153 years

    Washington D.C. Metro Area

    Packard Media Group
    President
    Packard Media Group
    Nov 2009 – Dec 20156 years 2 months

    Center for Public Integrity
    Journalist in Residence
    Center for Public Integrity
    Mar 2010 – Jun 20111 year 4 months

    The Washington Times
    Executive Editor
    The Washington Times
    Jan 2008 – Nov 20091 year 11 months

    The Washington Post
    Investigative correspondent
    The Washington Post
    Dec 2006 – Jan 20081 year 2 months

    The Associated Press
    Assistant Chief of Bureau
    The Associated Press
    May 1987 – Dec 200619 years 8 months

    Washington DC

    Education
    Marquette UniversityMarquette University
    Marquette University
    Bachelor of Arts (B.A.)Journalism, Sociology
    1984 – 1998

    Fairfield Prep
    Fairfield Prep
    Bachelor’s degreeJournalism
    1980 – 1984

  113. Yes, I know Pat:

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/biden-ukraine-dirt-file-has-private-email-between-john-solomon-and-rudy-allies

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Solomon_(political_commentator)

  114. bottom line
    when the present is horrific, grab a shovel and go digging back to 2016
    hard labour pat , easier to do a 12 month stretch in joilet Illinois
    some folks they like breaking rocks n building hills of beans !

  115. ot

    the more we learn the more we learn how little we know

    https://www.businessinsider.com/nasa-voyager-interstellar-space-findings-outside-solar-system-2019-11

  116. The wiki page on him is written as a hit piece, I laughed when I read it.

  117. for your reading pleasure….. note the date…

    Ukrainian efforts to sabotage Trump backfire
    Kiev officials are scrambling to make amends with the president-elect after quietly working to boost Clinton.

    By KENNETH P. VOGEL and DAVID STERN 01/11/2017 05:05 AM EST

    Donald Trump wasn’t the only presidential candidate whose campaign was boosted by officials of a former Soviet bloc country.

    Ukrainian government officials tried to help Hillary Clinton and undermine Trump by publicly questioning his fitness for office. They also disseminated documents implicating a top Trump aide in corruption and suggested they were investigating the matter, only to back away after the election. And they helped Clinton’s allies research damaging information on Trump and his advisers, a Politico investigation found. A Ukrainian-American operative who was consulting for the Democratic National Committee met with top officials in the Ukrainian Embassy in Washington in an effort to expose ties between Trump, top campaign aide Paul Manafort and Russia, according to people with direct knowledge of the situation.

    The Ukrainian efforts had an impact in the race, helping to force Manafort’s resignation and advancing the narrative that Trump’s campaign was deeply connected to Ukraine’s foe to the east, Russia. But they were far less concerted or centrally directed than Russia’s alleged hacking and dissemination of Democratic emails.

    Russia’s effort was personally directed by Russian President Vladimir Putin, involved the country’s military and foreign intelligence services, according to U.S. intelligence officials. They reportedly briefed Trump last week on the possibility that Russian operatives might have compromising information on the president-elect. And at a Senate hearing last week on the hacking, Director of National Intelligence James Clapper said “I don’t think we’ve ever encountered a more aggressive or direct campaign to interfere in our election process than we’ve seen in this case.”

    There’s little evidence of such a top-down effort by Ukraine. Longtime observers suggest that the rampant corruption, factionalism and economic struggles plaguing the country — not to mention its ongoing strife with Russia — would render it unable to pull off an ambitious covert interference campaign in another country’s election. And President Petro Poroshenko’s administration, along with the Ukrainian Embassy in Washington, insists that Ukraine stayed neutral in the race. Yet Politico’s investigation found evidence of Ukrainian government involvement in the race that appears to strain diplomatic protocol dictating that governments refrain from engaging in one another’s elections.

    Russia’s meddling has sparked outrage from the American body politic. The U.S. intelligence community undertook the rare move of publicizing its findings on the matter, and President Barack Obama took several steps to officially retaliate, while members of Congress continue pushing for more investigations into the hacking and a harder line against Russia, which was already viewed in Washington as America’s leading foreign adversary.

    Ukraine, on the other hand, has traditionally enjoyed strong relations with U.S. administrations. Its officials worry that could change under Trump, whose team has privately expressed sentiments ranging from ambivalence to deep skepticism about Poroshenko’s regime, while sounding unusually friendly notes about Putin’s regime.

    Poroshenko is scrambling to alter that dynamic, recently signing a $50,000-a-month contract with a well-connected GOP-linked Washington lobbying firm to set up meetings with U.S. government officials “to strengthen U.S.-Ukrainian relations.” Revelations about Ukraine’s anti-Trump efforts could further set back those efforts.

    “Things seem to be going from bad to worse for Ukraine,” said David A. Merkel, a senior fellow at the Atlantic Council who helped oversee U.S. relations with Russia and Ukraine while working in George W. Bush’s State Department and National Security Council.

    Merkel, who has served as an election observer in Ukrainian presidential elections dating back to 1993, noted there’s some irony in Ukraine and Russia taking opposite sides in the 2016 presidential race, given that past Ukrainian elections were widely viewed in Washington’s foreign policy community as proxy wars between the U.S. and Russia.

    “Now, it seems that a U.S. election may have been seen as a surrogate battle by those in Kiev and Moscow,” Merkel said.

    •••

    The Ukrainian antipathy for Trump’s team — and alignment with Clinton’s — can be traced back to late 2013. That’s when the country’s president, Viktor Yanukovych, whom Manafort had been advising, abruptly backed out of a European Union pact linked to anti-corruption reforms. Instead, Yanukovych entered into a multibillion-dollar bailout agreement with Russia, sparking protests across Ukraine and prompting Yanukovych to flee the country to Russia under Putin’s protection.

    In the ensuing crisis, Russian troops moved into the Ukrainian territory of Crimea, and Manafort dropped off the radar.

    Manafort’s work for Yanukovych caught the attention of a veteran Democratic operative named Alexandra Chalupa, who had worked in the White House Office of Public Liaison during the Clinton administration. Chalupa went on to work as a staffer, then as a consultant, for Democratic National Committee. The DNC paid her $412,000 from 2004 to June 2016, according to Federal Election Commission records, though she also was paid by other clients during that time, including Democratic campaigns and the DNC’s arm for engaging expatriate Democrats around the world.

    A daughter of Ukrainian immigrants who maintains strong ties to the Ukrainian-American diaspora and the U.S. Embassy in Ukraine, Chalupa, a lawyer by training, in 2014 was doing pro bono work for another client interested in the Ukrainian crisis and began researching Manafort’s role in Yanukovych’s rise, as well as his ties to the pro-Russian oligarchs who funded Yanukovych’s political party.

    In an interview this month, Chalupa told Politico she had developed a network of sources in Kiev and Washington, including investigative journalists, government officials and private intelligence operatives. While her consulting work at the DNC this past election cycle centered on mobilizing ethnic communities — including Ukrainian-Americans — she said that, when Trump’s unlikely presidential campaign began surging in late 2015, she began focusing more on the research, and expanded it to include Trump’s ties to Russia, as well.

    She occasionally shared her findings with officials from the DNC and Clinton’s campaign, Chalupa said. In January 2016 — months before Manafort had taken any role in Trump’s campaign — Chalupa told a senior DNC official that, when it came to Trump’s campaign, “I felt there was a Russia connection,” Chalupa recalled. “And that, if there was, that we can expect Paul Manafort to be involved in this election,” said Chalupa, who at the time also was warning leaders in the Ukrainian-American community that Manafort was “Putin’s political brain for manipulating U.S. foreign policy and elections.” She said she shared her concern with Ukraine’s ambassador to the U.S., Valeriy Chaly, and one of his top aides, Oksana Shulyar, during a March 2016 meeting at the Ukrainian Embassy. According to someone briefed on the meeting, Chaly said that Manafort was very much on his radar, but that he wasn’t particularly concerned about the operative’s ties to Trump since he didn’t believe Trump stood much of a chance of winning the GOP nomination, let alone the presidency.

    That was not an uncommon view at the time, and, perhaps as a result, Trump’s ties to Russia — let alone Manafort’s — were not the subject of much attention.
    That all started to change just four days after Chalupa’s meeting at the embassy, when it was reported that Trump had in fact hired Manafort, suggesting that Chalupa may have been on to something. She quickly found herself in high demand. The day after Manafort’s hiring was revealed, she briefed the DNC’s communications staff on Manafort, Trump and their ties to Russia, according to an operative familiar with the situation.

    A former DNC staffer described the exchange as an “informal conversation,” saying “‘briefing’ makes it sound way too formal,” and adding, “We were not directing or driving her work on this.” Yet, the former DNC staffer and the operative familiar with the situation agreed that with the DNC’s encouragement, Chalupa asked embassy staff to try to arrange an interview in which Poroshenko might discuss Manafort’s ties to Yanukovych.

    While the embassy declined that request, officials there became “helpful” in Chalupa’s efforts, she said, explaining that she traded information and leads with them. “If I asked a question, they would provide guidance, or if there was someone I needed to follow up with.” But she stressed, “There were no documents given, nothing like that.”

    Chalupa said the embassy also worked directly with reporters researching Trump, Manafort and Russia to point them in the right directions. She added, though, “they were being very protective and not speaking to the press as much as they should have. I think they were being careful because their situation was that they had to be very, very careful because they could not pick sides. It’s a political issue, and they didn’t want to get involved politically because they couldn’t.”

    Shulyar vehemently denied working with reporters or with Chalupa on anything related to Trump or Manafort, explaining “we were stormed by many reporters to comment on this subject, but our clear and adamant position was not to give any comment [and] not to interfere into the campaign affairs.” Both Shulyar and Chalupa said the purpose of their initial meeting was to organize a June reception at the embassy to promote Ukraine. According to the embassy’s website, the event highlighted female Ukrainian leaders, featuring speeches by Ukrainian parliamentarian Hanna Hopko, who discussed “Ukraine’s fight against the Russian aggression in Donbas,” and longtime Hillary Clinton confidante Melanne Verveer, who worked for Clinton in the State Department and was a vocal surrogate during the presidential campaign.

    Shulyar said her work with Chalupa “didn’t involve the campaign,” and she specifically stressed that “We have never worked to research and disseminate damaging information about Donald Trump and Paul Manafort.”

    But Andrii Telizhenko, who worked as a political officer in the Ukrainian Embassy under Shulyar, said she instructed him to help Chalupa research connections between Trump, Manafort and Russia. “Oksana said that if I had any information, or knew other people who did, then I should contact Chalupa,” recalled Telizhenko, who is now a political consultant in Kiev. “They were coordinating an investigation with the Hillary team on Paul Manafort with Alexandra Chalupa,” he said, adding “Oksana was keeping it all quiet,” but “the embassy worked very closely with” Chalupa.

    In fact, sources familiar with the effort say that Shulyar specifically called Telizhenko into a meeting with Chalupa to provide an update on an American media outlet’s ongoing investigation into Manafort.

    Telizhenko recalled that Chalupa told him and Shulyar that, “If we can get enough information on Paul [Manafort] or Trump’s involvement with Russia, she can get a hearing in Congress by September.”

    Chalupa confirmed that, a week after Manafort’s hiring was announced, she discussed the possibility of a congressional investigation with a foreign policy legislative assistant in the office of Rep. Marcy Kaptur (D-Ohio), who co-chairs the Congressional Ukrainian Caucus. But, Chalupa said, “It didn’t go anywhere.”

    Asked about the effort, the Kaptur legislative assistant called it a “touchy subject” in an internal email to colleagues that was accidentally forwarded to Politico.

    Kaptur’s office later emailed an official statement explaining that the lawmaker is backing a bill to create an independent commission to investigate “possible outside interference in our elections.” The office added “at this time, the evidence related to this matter points to Russia, but Congresswoman Kaptur is concerned with any evidence of foreign entities interfering in our elections.”

    •••

    Almost as quickly as Chalupa’s efforts attracted the attention of the Ukrainian Embassy and Democrats, she also found herself the subject of some unwanted attention from overseas.

    Within a few weeks of her initial meeting at the embassy with Shulyar and Chaly, Chalupa on April 20 received the first of what became a series of messages from the administrators of her private Yahoo email account, warning her that “state-sponsored actors” were trying to hack into her emails.

    She kept up her crusade, appearing on a panel a week after the initial hacking message to discuss her research on Manafort with a group of Ukrainian investigative journalists gathered at the Library of Congress for a program sponsored by a U.S. congressional agency called the Open World Leadership Center.

    Center spokeswoman Maura Shelden stressed that her group is nonpartisan and ensures “that our delegations hear from both sides of the aisle, receiving bipartisan information.” She said the Ukrainian journalists in subsequent days met with Republican officials in North Carolina and elsewhere. And she said that, before the Library of Congress event, “Open World’s program manager for Ukraine did contact Chalupa to advise her that Open World is a nonpartisan agency of the Congress.”

    Chalupa, though, indicated in an email that was later hacked and released by WikiLeaks that the Open World Leadership Center “put me on the program to speak specifically about Paul Manafort.” In the email, which was sent in early May to then-DNC communications director Luis Miranda, Chalupa noted that she had extended an invitation to the Library of Congress forum to veteran Washington investigative reporter Michael Isikoff. Two days before the event, he had published a story for Yahoo News revealing the unraveling of a $26 million deal between Manafort and a Russian oligarch related to a telecommunications venture in Ukraine. And Chalupa wrote in the email she’d been “working with for the past few weeks” with Isikoff “and connected him to the Ukrainians” at the event.

    Isikoff, who accompanied Chalupa to a reception at the Ukrainian Embassy immediately after the Library of Congress event, declined to comment.

    Chalupa further indicated in her hacked May email to the DNC that she had additional sensitive information about Manafort that she intended to share “offline” with Miranda and DNC research director Lauren Dillon, including “a big Trump component you and Lauren need to be aware of that will hit in next few weeks and something I’m working on you should be aware of.” Explaining that she didn’t feel comfortable sharing the intel over email, Chalupa attached a screenshot of a warning from Yahoo administrators about “state-sponsored” hacking on her account, explaining, “Since I started digging into Manafort these messages have been a daily occurrence on my yahoo account despite changing my password often.”

    Dillon and Miranda declined to comment.

    A DNC official stressed that Chalupa was a consultant paid to do outreach for the party’s political department, not a researcher. She undertook her investigations into Trump, Manafort and Russia on her own, and the party did not incorporate her findings in its dossiers on the subjects, the official said, stressing that the DNC had been building robust research books on Trump and his ties to Russia long before Chalupa began sounding alarms.

    Nonetheless, Chalupa’s hacked email reportedly escalated concerns among top party officials, hardening their conclusion that Russia likely was behind the cyber intrusions with which the party was only then beginning to grapple.

    Chalupa left the DNC after the Democratic convention in late July to focus fulltime on her research into Manafort, Trump and Russia. She said she provided off-the-record information and guidance to “a lot of journalists” working on stories related to Manafort and Trump’s Russia connections, despite what she described as escalating harassment.

    About a month-and-a-half after Chalupa first started receiving hacking alerts, someone broke into her car outside the Northwest Washington home where she lives with her husband and three young daughters, she said. They “rampaged it, basically, but didn’t take anything valuable — left money, sunglasses, $1,200 worth of golf clubs,” she said, explaining she didn’t file a police report after that incident because she didn’t connect it to her research and the hacking.

    But by the time a similar vehicle break-in occurred involving two family cars, she was convinced that it was a Russia-linked intimidation campaign. The police report on the latter break-in noted that “both vehicles were unlocked by an unknown person and the interior was ransacked, with papers and the garage openers scattered throughout the cars. Nothing was taken from the vehicles.”

    Then, early in the morning on another day, a woman “wearing white flowers in her hair” tried to break into her family’s home at 1:30 a.m., Chalupa said. Shulyar told Chalupa that the mysterious incident bore some of the hallmarks of intimidation campaigns used against foreigners in Russia, according to Chalupa.

    “This is something that they do to U.S. diplomats, they do it to Ukrainians. Like, this is how they operate. They break into people’s homes. They harass people. They’re theatrical about it,” Chalupa said. “They must have seen when I was writing to the DNC staff, outlining who Manafort was, pulling articles, saying why it was significant, and painting the bigger picture.”

    In a Yahoo News story naming Chalupa as one of 16 “ordinary people” who “shaped the 2016 election,” Isikoff wrote that after Chalupa left the DNC, FBI agents investigating the hacking questioned her and examined her laptop and smartphone.

    Chalupa this month told Politico that, as her research and role in the election started becoming more public, she began receiving death threats, along with continued alerts of state-sponsored hacking. But she said, “None of this has scared me off.”

    •••

    While it’s not uncommon for outside operatives to serve as intermediaries between governments and reporters, one of the more damaging Russia-related stories for the Trump campaign — and certainly for Manafort — can be traced more directly to the Ukrainian government.

    Documents released by an independent Ukrainian government agency — and publicized by a parliamentarian — appeared to show $12.7 million in cash payments that were earmarked for Manafort by the Russia-aligned party of the deposed former president, Yanukovych.

    The New York Times, in the August story revealing the ledgers’ existence, reported that the payments earmarked for Manafort were “a focus” of an investigation by Ukrainian anti-corruption officials, while CNN reported days later that the FBI was pursuing an overlapping inquiry. Clinton’s campaign seized on the story to advance Democrats’ argument that Trump’s campaign was closely linked to Russia. The ledger represented “more troubling connections between Donald Trump’s team and pro-Kremlin elements in Ukraine,” Robby Mook, Clinton’s campaign manager, said in a statement. He demanded that Trump “disclose campaign chair Paul Manafort’s and all other campaign employees’ and advisers’ ties to Russian or pro-Kremlin entities, including whether any of Trump’s employees or advisers are currently representing and or being paid by them.”

    A former Ukrainian investigative journalist and current parliamentarian named Serhiy Leshchenko, who was elected in 2014 as part of Poroshenko’s party, held a news conference to highlight the ledgers, and to urge Ukrainian and American law enforcement to aggressively investigate Manafort.

    “I believe and understand the basis of these payments are totally against the law — we have the proof from these books,” Leshchenko said during the news conference, which attracted international media coverage. “If Mr. Manafort denies any allegations, I think he has to be interrogated into this case and prove his position that he was not involved in any misconduct on the territory of Ukraine,” Leshchenko added.

    Manafort denied receiving any off-books cash from Yanukovych’s Party of Regions, and said that he had never been contacted about the ledger by Ukrainian or American investigators, later telling POLITICO “I was just caught in the crossfire.”

    According to a series of memos reportedly compiled for Trump’s opponents by a former British intelligence agent, Yanukovych, in a secret meeting with Putin on the day after the Times published its report, admitted that he had authorized “substantial kickback payments to Manafort.” But according to the report, which was published Tuesday by BuzzFeed but remains unverified. Yanukovych assured Putin “that there was no documentary trail left behind which could provide clear evidence of this” — an alleged statement that seemed to implicitly question the authenticity of the ledger. The scrutiny around the ledgers — combined with that from other stories about his Ukraine work — proved too much, and he stepped down from the Trump campaign less than a week after the Times story.

    At the time, Leshchenko suggested that his motivation was partly to undermine Trump. “For me, it was important to show not only the corruption aspect, but that he is [a] pro-Russian candidate who can break the geopolitical balance in the world,” Leshchenko told the Financial Times about two weeks after his news conference. The newspaper noted that Trump’s candidacy had spurred “Kiev’s wider political leadership to do something they would never have attempted before: intervene, however indirectly, in a U.S. election,” and the story quoted Leshchenko asserting that the majority of Ukraine’s politicians are “on Hillary Clinton’s side.”

    But by this month, Leshchenko was seeking to recast his motivation, telling Politico, “I didn’t care who won the U.S. elections. This was a decision for the American voters to decide.” His goal in highlighting the ledgers, he said was “to raise these issues on a political level and emphasize the importance of the investigation.”

    In a series of answers provided to Politico, a spokesman for Poroshenko distanced his administration from both Leshchenko’s efforts and those of the agency that reLeshchenko Leshchenko leased the ledgers, The National Anti-Corruption Bureau of Ukraine. It was created in 2014 as a condition for Ukraine to receive aid from the U.S. and the European Union, and it signed an evidence-sharing agreement with the FBI in late June — less than a month and a half before it released the ledgers.

    The bureau is “fully independent,” the Poroshenko spokesman said, adding that when it came to the presidential administration there was “no targeted action against Manafort.” He added “as to Serhiy Leshchenko, he positions himself as a representative of internal opposition in the Bloc of Petro Poroshenko’s faction, despite [the fact that] he belongs to the faction,” the spokesman said, adding, “it was about him personally who pushed [the anti-corruption bureau] to proceed with investigation on Manafort.”

    But an operative who has worked extensively in Ukraine, including as an adviser to Poroshenko, said it was highly unlikely that either Leshchenko or the anti-corruption bureau would have pushed the issue without at least tacit approval from Poroshenko or his closest allies.

    “It was something that Poroshenko was probably aware of and could have stopped if he wanted to,” said the operative.

    And, almost immediately after Trump’s stunning victory over Clinton, questions began mounting about the investigations into the ledgers — and the ledgers themselves.

    An official with the anti-corruption bureau told a Ukrainian newspaper, “Mr. Manafort does not have a role in this case.” And, while the anti-corruption bureau told Politico late last month that a “general investigation [is] still ongoing” of the ledger, it said Manafort is not a target of the investigation. “As he is not the Ukrainian citizen, [the anti-corruption bureau] by the law couldn’t investigate him personally,” the bureau said in a statement.

    Some Poroshenko critics have gone further, suggesting that the bureau is backing away from investigating because the ledgers might have been doctored or even forged.

    Valentyn Nalyvaichenko, a Ukrainian former diplomat who served as the country’s head of security under Poroshenko but is now affiliated with a leading opponent of Poroshenko, said it was fishy that “only one part of the black ledger appeared.” He asked, “Where is the handwriting analysis?” and said it was “crazy” to announce an investigation based on the ledgers. He met last month in Washington with Trump allies, and said, “of course they all recognize that our [anti-corruption bureau] intervened in the presidential campaign.”

    And in an interview this week, Manafort, who re-emerged as an informal advisor to Trump after Election Day, suggested that the ledgers were inauthentic and called their publication “a politically motivated false attack on me. My role as a paid consultant was public. There was nothing off the books, but the way that this was presented tried to make it look shady.”

    He added that he felt particularly wronged by efforts to cast his work in Ukraine as pro-Russian, arguing “all my efforts were focused on helping Ukraine move into Europe and the West.” He specifically cited his work on denuclearizing the country and on the European Union trade and political pact that Yanukovych spurned before fleeing to Russia. “In no case was I ever involved in anything that would be contrary to U.S. interests,” Manafort said.

    Yet Russia seemed to come to the defense of Manafort and Trump last month, when a spokeswoman for Russia’s Foreign Ministry charged that the Ukrainian government used the ledgers as a political weapon.

    “Ukraine seriously complicated the work of Trump’s election campaign headquarters by planting information according to which Paul Manafort, Trump’s campaign chairman, allegedly accepted money from Ukrainian oligarchs,” Maria Zakharova said at a news briefing, according to a transcript of her remarks posted on the Foreign Ministry’s website. “All of you have heard this remarkable story,” she told assembled reporters.

    •••

    Beyond any efforts to sabotage Trump, Ukrainian officials didn’t exactly extend a hand of friendship to the GOP nominee during the campaign.

    The ambassador, Chaly, penned an op-ed for The Hill, in which he chastised Trump for a confusing series of statements in which the GOP candidate at one point expressed a willingness to consider recognizing Russia’s annexation of the Ukrainian territory of Crimea as legitimate. The op-ed made some in the embassy uneasy, sources said.

    “That was like too close for comfort, even for them,” said Chalupa. “That was something that was as risky as they were going to be.”

    Former Ukrainian Prime Minister Arseny Yatseniuk warned on Facebook that Trump had “challenged the very values of the free world.”

    Ukraine’s minister of internal affairs, Arsen Avakov, piled on, trashing Trump on Twitter in July as a “clown” and asserting that Trump is “an even bigger danger to the US than terrorism.”

    Avakov, in a Facebook post, lashed out at Trump for his confusing Crimea comments, calling the assessment the “diagnosis of a dangerous misfit,” according to a translated screenshot featured in one media report, though he later deleted the post. He called Trump “dangerous for Ukraine and the US” and noted that Manafort worked with Yanukovych when the former Ukrainian leader “fled to Russia through Crimea. Where would Manafort lead Trump?” The Trump-Ukraine relationship grew even more fraught in September with reports that the GOP nominee had snubbed Poroshenko on the sidelines of the United Nations General Assembly in New York, where the Ukrainian president tried to meet both major party candidates, but scored only a meeting with Clinton.

    Telizhenko, the former embassy staffer, said that, during the primaries, Chaly, the country’s ambassador in Washington, had actually instructed the embassy not to reach out to Trump’s campaign, even as it was engaging with those of Clinton and Trump’s leading GOP rival, Ted Cruz.

    “We had an order not to talk to the Trump team, because he was critical of Ukraine and the government and his critical position on Crimea and the conflict,” said Telizhenko. “I was yelled at when I proposed to talk to Trump,” he said, adding, “The ambassador said not to get involved — Hillary is going to win.”

    This account was confirmed by Nalyvaichenko, the former diplomat and security chief now affiliated with a Poroshenko opponent, who said, “The Ukrainian authorities closed all doors and windows — this is from the Ukrainian side.” He called the strategy “bad and short-sighted.”

    Andriy Artemenko, a Ukrainian parliamentarian associated with a conservative opposition party, did meet with Trump’s team during the campaign and said he personally offered to set up similar meetings for Chaly but was rebuffed.

    “It was clear that they were supporting Hillary Clinton’s candidacy,” Artemenko said. “They did everything from organizing meetings with the Clinton team, to publicly supporting her, to criticizing Trump. … I think that they simply didn’t meet because they thought that Hillary would win.”

    Shulyar rejected the characterizations that the embassy had a ban on interacting with Trump, instead explaining that it “had different diplomats assigned for dealing with different teams tailoring the content and messaging. So it was not an instruction to abstain from the engagement but rather an internal discipline for diplomats not to get involved into a field she or he was not assigned to, but where another colleague was involved.”

    And she pointed out that Chaly traveled to the GOP convention in Cleveland in late July and met with members of Trump’s foreign policy team “to highlight the importance of Ukraine and the support of it by the U.S.” Despite the outreach, Trump’s campaign in Cleveland gutted a proposed amendment to the Republican Party platform that called for the U.S. to provide “lethal defensive weapons” for Ukraine to defend itself against Russian incursion, backers of the measure charged.

    The outreach ramped up after Trump’s victory. Shulyar pointed out that Poroshenko was among the first foreign leaders to call to congratulate Trump. And she said that, since Election Day, Chaly has met with close Trump allies, including Sens. Jeff Sessions, Trump’s nominee for attorney general, and Bob Corker, the chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, while the ambassador accompanied Ivanna Klympush-Tsintsadze, Ukraine’s vice prime minister for European and Euro-Atlantic integration, to a round of Washington meetings with Rep. Tom Marino (R-Pa.), an early Trump backer, and Jim DeMint, president of The Heritage Foundation, which played a prominent role in Trump’s transition.

    •••

    Many Ukrainian officials and operatives and their American allies see Trump’s inauguration this month as an existential threat to the country, made worse, they admit, by the dissemination of the secret ledger, the antagonistic social media posts and the perception that the embassy meddled against — or at least shut out — Trump.

    “It’s really bad. The [Poroshenko] administration right now is trying to re-coordinate communications,” said Telizhenko, adding, “The Trump organization doesn’t want to talk to our administration at all.”

    During Nalyvaichenko’s trip to Washington last month, he detected lingering ill will toward Ukraine from some, and lack of interest from others, he recalled. “Ukraine is not on the top of the list, not even the middle,” he said.

    Poroshenko’s allies are scrambling to figure out how to build a relationship with Trump, who is known for harboring and prosecuting grudges for years.

    A delegation of Ukrainian parliamentarians allied with Poroshenko last month traveled to Washington partly to try to make inroads with the Trump transition team, but they were unable to secure a meeting, according to a Washington foreign policy operative familiar with the trip. And operatives in Washington and Kiev say that after the election, Poroshenko met in Kiev with top executives from the Washington lobbying firm BGR — including Ed Rogers and Lester Munson — about how to navigate the Trump regime. Weeks later, BGR reported to the Department of Justice that the government of Ukraine would pay the firm $50,000 a month to “provide strategic public relations and government affairs counsel,” including “outreach to U.S. government officials, non-government organizations, members of the media and other individuals.”

    Firm spokesman Jeffrey Birnbaum suggested that “pro-Putin oligarchs” were already trying to sow doubts about BGR’s work with Poroshenko. While the firm maintains close relationships with GOP congressional leaders, several of its principals were dismissive or sharply critical of Trump during the GOP primary, which could limit their effectiveness lobbying the new administration.

    The Poroshenko regime’s standing with Trump is considered so dire that the president’s allies after the election actually reached out to make amends with — and even seek assistance from — Manafort, according to two operatives familiar with Ukraine’s efforts to make inroads with Trump.

    Meanwhile, Poroshenko’s rivals are seeking to capitalize on his dicey relationship with Trump’s team. Some are pressuring him to replace Chaly, a close ally of Poroshenko’s who is being blamed by critics in Kiev and Washington for implementing — if not engineering — the country’s anti-Trump efforts, according to Ukrainian and U.S. politicians and operatives interviewed for this story. They say that several potential Poroshenko opponents have been through Washington since the election seeking audiences of their own with Trump allies, though most have failed to do do so.

    “None of the Ukrainians have any access to Trump — they are all desperate to get it, and are willing to pay big for it,” said one American consultant whose company recently met in Washington with Yuriy Boyko, a former vice prime minister under Yanukovych. Boyko, who like Yanukovych has a pro-Russian worldview, is considering a presidential campaign of his own, and his representatives offered “to pay a shit-ton of money” to get access to Trump and his inaugural events, according to the consultant.

    The consultant turned down the work, explaining, “It sounded shady, and we don’t want to get in the middle of that kind of stuff.”

  118. The wiki page on him is written as a hit piece

    That seems to be a bit od a stock reply now when you read something you don’t like.

    And this, the other link supplied with the Wiki article?

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/biden-ukraine-dirt-file-has-private-email-between-john-solomon-and-rudy-allies

    For your reading pleasure….. note the date…

    Is that directed at me? If so why? I couldn’t care less.

    It’s the absolute lies about Joe Biden being investigated for blackmail as a means of covering Trump’s lard ass which interest me. If what’s said there is true then by all means lock the beast up but it still doesn’t detract from Trump’s attempting to enlist foreign help against a domestic political rival.

    Maybe they could lock Crooked Clinton and treacherous Trump up together in the same cell and save American tax dollars.

  119. There are no smoking guns with Biden

    We only have the son in a job he wasn’t qualified to have, due to family connections alone.

    And no Trump has a moral authority to criticize nepotism and family mafias.

  120. Pat hi, I’m not calling you a LIAR but
    the cavalier way you approach the impeachment makes you a dishonest guy

    lemme explain

    If you were honest you’d say the following:

    There are 3 things going on now :

    The Past – something you’re following about Russia/Ukraine/Clinton/server/DNC -2016
    The Present – the current impeachment of the POTUS
    The Future – There is an election in 2020

    your analysis is bouncing between the past and the future.
    Dancing over the present , right in front of us .

    This makes you a dishonest player , sorry , but others would just say
    Pat you’re a LIAR .. and its hard to disagree with that
    Because being a liar doesn’t necessarily involve telling a single lie
    Its a lying approach to the times we live in that makes someone a liar

    Jesus’s Net was wider , he’s have no time for your hypocrisy
    John 8:44

    You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father’s desires. He was a liar from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

  121. We only have the son in a job he wasn’t qualified to have, due to family connections alone

    That’s the absolute most than can be levelled against him and a question for his employers to answer.

    Sleazy Trump however attempted to use it as leverage to solicit a foreign power’s help against a domestic political rival. That’s a different kettle of illegal fish entirely

  122. Trump ruined any chance of successful fact finding or eventual prosecution by having his personal lawyer get involved in an attempt to destroy a political rival

    Trump should have recused himself due to the huge conflict of interest on his part.

    Getting his personal lawyer involved is extreme incompetence, and Rudy should have known better.

  123. Phantom, did you see this ?

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/us/son-of-irish-immigrants-named-new-york-police-commissioner-1.4073279

  124. No not familiar with him

    That’s a tough job, esp in an ( unfair ) anti police climate in some circles, etc

  125. News for Rudy is getting worse by the day, and this is NO spin

    Ukraine sticks it to Rudy Giuliani

    Months ago, Rudy Giuliani managed to talk a Ukrainian prosecutor named Kostiantyn Kulyk into launching a sham investigation into the Bidens. That investigation ended up getting shut down because it was completely illegitimate. Now Ukraine has taken things further by belatedly firing Kulyk, according to Reuters, ostensibly as a way of trying to completely wash its hands of the criminal scheme that Rudy has been running.

    This comes amid scattered reports yesterday that Rudy Giuliani is still trying to make his fake Biden scandals stick in Ukraine. Rudy is the guy who’s in too deep and just doesn’t know when to quit. Last night Lev Parnas fired his Trump-affiliated lawyer and announced that he’s going to cooperate with the House impeachment inquiry.

    Parnas has apparently had enough of Rudy Giuliani’s crap and is looking for a way out of this mess, even as Rudy just keeps going and going. he’s like the Energizer bunny of stupid. We’re not sure who’s going to be the one to tell Rudy that it’s over. Sooner or later the SDNY will handcuff him. Until then, he’s just going to keep digging himself a deeper hole.

    https://www.palmerreport.com/analysis/ukraine-sticks-rudy-giuliani-to/22670/

  126. The NYPD rank and file is unhappy, esp in the aftermath of the firing of the officer involved in a fatality ( Eric Garner choke hold death )

    Commissioner not an easy job at all.

  127. Sonderland just flipped, he revised his testimony

    Four new pages of sworn testimony released moments ago, from Sondland’s closed-door testimony last month, confirm he was involved in the quid pro quo between the US and Ukraine that is at the heart of the impeachment inquiry, and which Sondland hasn’t admitted to before.

    Trump is toast, this gonna end pretty quickly ..

  128. the NYPD rank and file are not happy at all….. they have a unanimous vote of no confidence in the mayor. It’s their loyalty to the badge that are keeping them showing up to work. NYC is getting more dangerous by they day on a multitude of levels….

  129. ot

    been a busy day family stuff, so haven’t had time to read much today, but of course I do have a comment on todays news… 9 mormons slaughtered in mexico by the cartel…. right on the highway across the border… but we don’t need a wall.

    No I’ll tell you what you need…. for the last 3 years 50 men kept 3 armies apart from each other. Their withdraw caused the massacre of the kurds.

    Put those 50 right on our border and start there.

  130. I don’t see any increasing crime at the moment But that could change quickly

    As the city has become much safer over the past 25 years or so, there is no thank you for the cops from a small but loud element. Instead there is open hatred and disrespect for the police from the bad guys. Gestures of contempt Have been tolerated , and should not have been tolerated

    We have a bad mayor, and a bad governor The new police commissioner looks like an excellent man, But he does not control everything

    This is a dangerous moment. Things can turn bad very quickly

  131. AOC is the intellectual leader of Democratic party of today, Except that she doesn’t have much of an intellect

    She endorsed The demonstrators who the other day marched under a banner that advocated punching police officers

    Fact

    The banner is shown in this article

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7641627/Anti-cop-protesters-Brooklyn-block-traffic-vandalize-bus-say-Dont-let-pigs-touch-us.html

  132. //She endorsed The demonstrators who the other day marched under a banner that advocated punching police officers

    Fact//

    Do you think it might be possible to agree with a march condemning police brutality whilst also condemning the brutality advocated by some of the marchers?

    Meanwhile in other news,

    Whoops.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-50311633

  133. Oh dear, Trump’s hotel owner appointee ambassador to the EU suddenly remembers:

    A US diplomat has revised his testimony to a congressional investigation that could seek to remove US President Donald Trump from office.

    Gordon Sondland says he now remembers telling a Ukrainian official that US military aid “likely” hinged on a political inquiry sought by Mr Trump

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-50310695

    That’s two diplomats that have demolished Don Don’s ‘quid pro quo’ defence. The WH’s pathetic defence?

    Mr Sondland “did not identify a solid source” for his assumption that there had been a quid pro quo.

  134. paul
    His baby sitters are telling Trump his presence made Kentucky go up 15% positive
    such a complete and utter LIE

    Trumps presence actually made the ultimate loss , as Matt Bevin was ahead before.

    The toxic brand of Trump, and they dare not tell him
    every day there is something more insane to discover

  135. I’ve mentioned Kentucky a few times over the years

    Trump you recall try to take away Obama care

    Obama care is popular among white working class voters in Kentucky. It has enabled a number of them to have good health care for the first time in their lives. Before Obamacare, insurance companies excluded pre-existing conditions if they wanted to. No longer.

  136. Phantom the NYPD are completely disgusted. The moral and anger in the ranks is the worst it has ever been there has been talk of a blue flu, but it would not have the effect they want. There has been talk of a couple of days of just zero response a stand down while on duty.

    If anyone who reads this if you are in NY or pass through stop and tell a cop thank you, they are only staying on the job because it is not the working peoples fault.

  137. gentleman it was an off year election. The people who voted yesterday are people like me, people who vote EVERY election. The races are all local….

    Take Mississippi the whole state is Republican except the AG Jim Hood. He’s a Dem, but he’s really a good ole boy. A hard hitting DA that ran for AG in 03 and has held office ever since. He gets bipartisan support because he doesn’t play politics with the Law.

    MidTerms prove the adage all elections are local.

  138. shoot I’m shocked the republican beat Hood in Mississippi that is a shock.

  139. Republicans should not lose any statewide elections in Mississippi, or in Kentucky.

    The Republican base is solid in its support of Trump no matter what he does, but the rest of the country, including the all important independents, not so much.

  140. Has Trump started demonising Sondland yet or criticised his ability or general worth as a human being?

  141. prolly soon Seimi
    Trumps squeals about his ex-officials flipping on him as being cowards
    He truly expects loyalty to mean doing time in jail for him.

  142. There you are Pat as promised the impeachment hearings go public next week.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world/us_and_canada

    No more myths about Republicans being locked out, no more rumours about having no representation. No more places to hide
    .

  143. PVR

    “NYC is getting more dangerous by they day on a multitude of levels….” Please explain what you mean by that? I do not find it any more or less dangerous. I see plenty of police around the city and things keep humming along as usual with no sense of danger.

  144. say what paul
    sorry can’t hear you , say something?

  145. NYr your police are ready to walk off the job….. response times are double what they would normally be and in the badlands it’s worse. Remember these people are the ones asked to step into the violence…… they have reached the point of why should they.

    That is creating dynamics that you wont see unless you need help.

  146. Rudy is in the shit now: He really should have his bag packed for when the police arrive, ready with toothbrush , clean pants and a few shirts socks .. comb and pack of playing cards.

    Bill Taylor said the idea “to get [Ukraine] President Zelensky to say out loud he’s going to investigate Burisma and 2016 election” came from Rudy Giuliani, acting on behalf of Donald Trump.

  147. Rudy sent many to jail, maybe he can now enjoy the experience for himself

  148. Rudy and Trump are trying to outdo each other as to who is the craziest berseker to go off the deep end

    Rudy Giuliani, who is not just a lawyer, but the president’s lawyer, has recruited three attorneys to represent him, as New York federal prosecutors look into his business dealings.

    It doesn’t suggest Giuliani has that much confidence in his own law skills, but anyway it’s ok because according to Giuliani: “The evidence, when revealed fully, will show that this present farce is as much a frame-up and hoax as Russian collusion, maybe worse, and will prove the President is innocent.”

    Giuliani’s interactions with Ukrainian officials, including efforts to seek the removal of the US ambassador, have become entangled in the ongoing impeachment inquiry.

  149. There’s an old adage in law Kurt, the man who represents himself has a fool for a client.

    Guiliani was once a brillant lawyer and it’s sad to see him plumb the depths of sleaze but don’t let him hiring three briefs make you think that he’s no longer got his head screwed on.

  150. Rudy as a US attorney tirelessly went after corporate and Wall St wrongdoers, as well as the mafia.

    He was such a threat to the mafia that a the Sicilian mob plotted to whack him in the mid 1980s. They decided not to do it out of fear of severe retaliation from the US govt.

    http://www.capitalcentury.com/1988.html

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/10667504/Sicilian-mafia-plotted-to-kill-former-New-York-mayor-Rudy-Giuliani.html

    Poor Rudy, once one of the most admired men in America

  151. absolutely we know from Rudy’s butt-dials he needs alot of money and these super-lawyers he’s hired don’t come cheap
    any ideas what their fees would be to defend Guiliani ? do they charge per hour of their time and get paid in real-time, or do they work the whole case and then submit the bill?

  152. I guessed about $1000 per hour, its about that yes …

  153. PVR

    “NYr your police are ready to walk off the job….. response times are double what they would normally be and in the badlands it’s worse. Remember these people are the ones asked to step into the violence…… they have reached the point of why should they.” Where did you get that information? A new commissioner was just named and most in the NYPD seem to approve of him and he came up through the ranks. I haven’t heard of major dissatisfaction but maybe you have to be in the NYPD hear it.

  154. I believe that there is unhappiness among the force resulting from the firing of Officer Pantileo ( sp ) and from the tolerance in some communities of open gestures of disrespect to police, and of a general feeling that the city does not have their back

    The cops Have generally done an incredible job at rolling back crime over 25 years and more, And are being repaid with scorn – by a small but loud minority, Which is tolerated by this Democratic administration.

    You are a far more likely to get an honest reporting of this dissatisfaction in the New York post than you are in the New York Times

  155. Unambiguously stated:

    A senior US diplomat has testified that the Trump administration threatened to withhold military aid from Ukraine unless it agreed to investigate Mr Trump’s leading US presidential rival.

    Bill Taylor, the top US diplomat in Ukraine, told impeachment hearings he had a “clear understanding” aid would be withheld pending an investigation […]

    He told a Congressional committee that two state department officials said Mr Trump would not “sign a check” for nearly $400m (£311m) in US military aid until Ukrainian officials announced an investigation into Democratic presidential contender and former Vice-President Joe Biden.

    Mr Biden’s son Hunter Biden previously sat on the board of the Ukrainian oil company Burisma. President Trump has claimed without evidence that Joe Biden used his position as vice-president to quash an investigation into Burisma.

    Mr Taylor also told the Congressional committee that Mr Trump’s personal lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, was behind the drive to get Ukraine to announce an investigation into the Bidens

    I wonder what the pathetic defence will be this time? Stand by for Rudi being bussed.

  156. The failing New York Times reports that some top attorneys have declined offers To represent Mr. Giuliani

    Among the reasons cited are Giuliani’s Propensity to say Unpredictable and unwise things on television

    And the fear that he would try to manage his own legal case

  157. NYr my information comes from family members in the rank and file of the NYPD.

  158. That Paul is Mr. Taylor’s “opinion” nothing more. Every bit of testimony so far has just been each persons “opinion” nothing more.

    Yesterday they started to spin away from “Quid Pro Quo” towards Bribery… they are shifting possible crimes around like a 3 card monte game. They are doing this because Trump has committed no crimes that they have yet to find.

    The Founders warned of impeachment for shear political reasons. The Democrats are fulfilling those fears.

    Just as with Mueller there is no base crime, no legal reason to prosecute.

  159. for your reading pleasure here is a great article on Impeachment and its history at the founding. I don’t think it helps either side of this argument but it’s fascinating.

    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/inside-founding-fathers-debate-over-what-constituted-impeachable-offense-180965083/

  160. It’s not debatable that many NYPD members are demoralized at the lack of support from the mayor and by the hatred directed at them by a bad but loud element of the public.

    The governor is better than the mayor on these things. He was much angrier than the mayor appeared to be when skells actually poured water on police officers.

    On policing matters, Mayor Giuliani was exceptionally good. Not perfect, but 99% strong and good. This mayor is mostly bad. You have people risking their lives for you, and you don’t support them, you do not give them the benefit of the doubt at any time. That’s really bad leadership.

  161. Moral has never been lower.

  162. IMO opinion the majority of the city’s population, including many Democrats in an overwhelmingly Democrat city are disturbed by what is happening but not enough are speaking up.

  163. Patrick Van Roy, on November 7th, 2019 at 2:10 PM Said:
    Moral has never been lower.

    With such low morals, it’s no wonder morale is so low 😉

  164. Rudy and Trump got caught out trying to prep a nice surprise for 2020. Pants down. Crimes ? You say what crime. Hundreds pat you’ll see.

  165. but you unerstood me didnt ya….. 😉

  166. Well if there’s 100’s kurt they shouldn’t be having so much trouble finding one……

  167. as with manafort,flynn,cohen there ends up being multiple crimes inc perjury,obstruction,larceny,bribery, money laundering you know how these things work
    Meanwhile just get set for 13th Nov, ringside,popcorn – its all coming out baby!

    inc a side-winder Muller 2
    it’s notable that when Bill Barr came in and shut Mueller down, Mueller’s final move was to quickly indict and arrest Roger Stone. It’s as if Mueller decided that putting Stone on trial was Plan B to work around Barr’s villainy. We’ll see how much comes out at trial this week. Has Mueller finally found a way to play some role in exposing Trump’s crimes? We’ll see.

    I envy you guys cos you get popcorn real cheap over in USA, here its expensive 🙁
    so every pop crackle and snap has to be savoured, as opposed to a face filling exercise 🙂

  168. two things are certain ( I’m a details man )

    granny latinos who make the orange jumpsuit are in for a good xmas as orders are likely to be high, inc some suits for large fatty ass perps.

    TV repair men in southern states are gonna have a good xmas with repairing telly’s that has had cans of bud thrown at them during the weeks during the live hearings

    Think of the lil guys pat 😉

  169. Manafort was convicted for crimes committed when he worked with the democrat Podesta brothers and Cohen was busted for crooked deals that had nothing to do with Trump.

    Gen Flynn will be cleared and they don’t know what to do about Stone.

  170. Stone is borderline nuts and I doubt that he’s ever respected the law.

    Very interesting to listen to, though.

    He has appeared on Bill Maher talking about legalizing pot, which I love.

  171. Of all these people we speak of, Roger Stone is the one that would be fun to hang out with.

    I’d share a pint with him, or ten, and I imagine that the conversations would be fun.

  172. That Paul is Mr. Taylor’s “opinion” nothing more. Every bit of testimony so far has just been each persons “opinion” nothing more

    Well done Pat, I expected no less 🙂

    This is what Taylor said:

    He told a congressional committee that two state department officials said Mr Trump would not “sign a cheque” for nearly $400m (£311m) in US military aid until Ukrainian officials announced an investigation into Democratic presidential contender and former US Vice-President Joe Biden

    Got that? He said that two SD apartment officials told him:

    Mr Trump would not “sign a cheque” for nearly $400m (£311m) in US military aid until Ukrainian officials announced an investigation into Democratic presidential contender and former US Vice-President Joe Biden

    That’s not an opinion, that’s testimony given stating what two SD officials actually said to him

    First it was that the hearings were being held in secret with no means of defence.
    Then is was that Republicans were being ‘locked out’ of the hearings.
    Then it was that those imparting testimony from the hearings were divulging classified information.
    Then is was what was being said at the hearings was ‘hearsay’
    Now it’s that testimony given is nothing more than opinion.

    Expect more of this obstructionism as one by one the fig leaves get torn away and the noose tightens until, as Peter predicted, it will go to the last line of defence of ‘yeah, he did it. So what?

  173. I’d share a beer with anyone with a tattoo of Nixon on their back…….

  174. He told a congressional committee that two state department officials said Mr Trump would not “sign a cheque” for nearly $400m (£311m) in US military aid until Ukrainian officials announced an investigation into Democratic presidential contender and former US Vice-President Joe Biden

    He said 2 others said…… what 2 others, where did they get their information…. and can you define the definition of hearsay ?

  175. I don’t know yet, no doubt the preliminary hearing will be looking for the two SD officials to investigate further.

    I’ve defined hearsay for you at length very recently.

  176. Every bit of testimony so far is nothing but opinion and hearsay. Only one person was only on the call so far and Lt Col Soontobe Courtmartialed gave his “opinion” of the call. He couldn’t point to anything in the actual call it just added to his observations of the Trump foreign Policy.

    both of which are irrelevant.

  177. is this true……..

    Ireland sending military personnel to Syria to bring back Islamic State bride who promises “I won’t kill anyone”
    NOV 6, 2019 1:00 PM BY ROBERT SPENCER

    https://www.jihadwatch.org/2019/11/ireland-sending-military-personnel-to-syria-to-rescue-islamic-state-bride-who-promises-i-wont-kill-anyone

  178. As explained to you previously this is a preliminary hearing so the testimony given can’t be deemed ‘hearsay’ or not until offered as evidence in an adversarial trial or tribunal.

    Taylor said two SD officials told him that and it’ll be for an impeachment panel to decide on it’s admissibility.

  179. Some anti Islam website gives no sources about Ireland ‘reportedly’ sending Irish Special Forces to Syria?

    Well, it’s got me convinced anyhows (sarcasm off)

  180. The report of Irish military being sent to retrieve that woman was in MSM

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/irish-defence-forces-launch-secret-mission-to-bring-home-islamic-state-bride-lisa-smith-and-her-child-38656481.html

  181. This is NOT a Preliminary Hearing this is sham circus to create headlines. There is no Due Process…..

    Paul you’ve bought into this spin, so be it.

    This is NOT, a hearing, a preliminary hearing, an impeachment inquiry, or any other label that tries to give it legitimacy.

    There is no Due Process PERIOD. That shows it for the joke it is… go watch the circus that the House has set for “The People” …. just like the Romans distract the peasants.

  182. PVR

    “NYr my information comes from family members in the rank and file of the NYPD.” Thank you. Right from the horse’s mouth. It is not the first time it has been said in the history of the NYPD. Generally it is a well run organization.

  183. True one of the best.

  184. here ya go this should set some of you off

    https://www.theepochtimes.com/russia-probe-was-a-watergate-like-breach-of-the-trump-campaign-investigative-journalist-says_3138936.html

  185. The Irish Indo isn’t exactly known for it’s meticulousness Phantom and I’d certainly be wary of the ‘sources’ ‘reportedly’ doing anything.

    //This is NOT a Preliminary Hearing this is sham circus to create headlines//

    Your political partisanship is making you deny reality again Pat

  186. on the bottom of this link is a good easy to grasp flow diagram of what happens during the impeachment of Trump

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-50327036

    In fact i uploaded it as an image to make it really clear

    Pat is there anything wrong in this flow chart ?

  187. Your political partisanship is making you deny reality again Pat

    nonsense…… all politics aside there is no due process here whether this was being pulled on Trump or Obama I would say the same.

    Sciffs court…..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-dJPoSlPfU

  188. Yeah Kurt the very first step in your chart is not how an Impeachment begins.

  189. There is no due process here

    Tut, tut, trying to hide behind process again? It’s a preliminary hearing in which representation isn’t required. Here’s your due process Pat:

    The Capitol Hill hearings will now be broadcast live, with both Democratic and Republican lawmakers questioning witnesses

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-50323190

    When the hearings go live ther’ll be no more obstructionist places left to hide.

  190. Tut, tut, trying to hide behind process again? It’s a preliminary hearing in which representation isn’t required. Here’s your due process Pat:

    I don’t know what your rights are, but here you have due process at every step.

    And the public hearings still lack due process…. the defense can’t call a witness unless the prosecution approves.

  191. But here you have due process at every step

    Every step of what? Please provide links which state that there must be due process in preliminary evidential hearings.

    The defense can’t call a witness unless the prosecution approves

    Please verify that claim with credible third party sources too.

  192. the only time in ANY Hearing setting that both the defense and prosecution do NOT have equal rights and authority is a Grand Jury.

    In a Grand Jury there is only the Prosecutor, which accounts for the saying “You can indict Ham Sandwich with a Grand Jury”

  193. The defense can’t call a witness unless the prosecution approves

    Please verify that claim with credible third party sources too.

    Read the Rules the Dems voted on and passed……. know your topic. All requests for witnesses have to be approved by Schiff, he has sole say on who can and can not be called.

  194. Republicans have one weapon only and that is character assassination

    Yesterday, radio host Michael Savage spent the entire show speculating how awful Schiff’s mother ” must have been “ to have such a horrible son.

    He doesn’t know the first thing about her and he says things like this for over 30 minutes, to get at the son.

    This it Trumpism at its lowest. And there is much more to come.

    Fact.

  195. Senator Kennedy of Louisiana appeared at a Hate Rally yesterday and cursed in front of a mob.

    “Speaker Nancy Pelosi is trying to impeach him,” Kennedy said to a wave of booing. “I don’t mean any disrespect, but it must suck to be that dumb.”

    Every part of US life is being degraded.

    Imagine a US Senator using low language like that in front of a crowd.

  196. Schiffs a bobble head, but I don’t care if he was clarence darrow the process is not due process….

    Phantom you still listening to him…? What is it a guilty pleasure ? I always found Savage annoying whether I was agreeing or disagreeing he just grates me.

  197. Have you ever seen that hayseed…. ? He’s like a prop from Hee Haw

  198. Savage is entertaining, and at times horrifying. He is a conspiracy guy right there with Allan and always has been.

    He openly attacks Limbaugh ( ” Fat Jim ” or whatever he calls him ) and Hannity ( ” the wallbanger ” ) for spending their entire shows on impeachment and supporting Trump.

    I understand why Fox News never has him on. He is loose cannon.

  199. Read the Rules the Dems voted on and passed

    But I have Pat and barring the claim from a House Republican from Louisiana that it gives a veto to the chair to reject witnesses without actually qualifying his claim as to how he came to that conclusion. Big on bluster, small on content.

    Here’sthe text of the resolution:

    https://www.theepochtimes.com/read-full-text-of-impeachment-process-resolution-released_3131076.html

    So, I’d like you to point me to where specifically where the defense can’t call a witness unless the prosecution approves

    And while you’re at it, supply links which state that there must be due process in preliminary evidential hearings.

    If you can’t then the latin maximum quod grātīs asseritur, grātīs negātur must apply, yet again, to your claims.

  200. The actual wording from what was voted on and passed…..

    (3) To allow for full evaluation of minority wit
    16 ness requests, the ranking minority member may
    17 submit to the chair, in writing, any requests for wit
    18 ness testimony relevant to the investigation de
    19 scribed in the first section of this resolution within
    20 72 hours after notice is given for the first hearing
    21 designated pursuant to paragraph (1). Any such re
    22 quest shall be accompanied by a detailed written jus
    23 tification of the relevance of the testimony of each
    24 requested witness to the investigation described in
    25 the first section of this resolution.
    VerDate Mar 15 2010 14:49 Oct 29, 2019 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00003 Fmt 6652 Sfmt 6201 C:\USERS\MLLEWIS\APPDATA\ROAMING\SOFTQUAD\XMETAL\7.0\GEN\C\IMP_INQ_01.X
    October 29, 2019 (2:49 p.m.)
    G:\P\16\MISC\MLL\IMP_INQ_01.XML
    g:\VHLC\102919\102919.191.xml (748652|7)
    4
    1 (4)(A) The ranking minority member of the
    2 Permanent Select Committee is authorized, with the
    3 concurrence of the chair, to require, as deemed nec
    4 essary to the investigation—
    5 (i) by subpoena or otherwise—
    6 (I) the attendance and testimony
    7 of any person (including at a taking
    8 of a deposition); and
    9 (II) the production of books,
    10 records, correspondence, memoranda,
    11 papers, and documents; and
    12 (ii) by interrogatory, the furnishing of
    13 information.
    14 (B) In the case that the chair declines to con
    15 cur in a proposed action of the ranking minority
    16 member pursuant to subparagraph (A), the ranking
    17 minority member shall have the right to refer to the
    18 committee for decision the question whether such
    19 authority shall be so exercised and the chair shall
    20 convene the committee promptly to render that deci
    21 sion, subject to the notice procedures for a com
    22 mittee meeting under clause 2(g)(3)(A) and (B) of
    23 rule XI.
    24 (C) Subpoenas and interrogatories so author
    25 ized may be signed by the ranking minority member,

    In English that says all requests go through Schiff, who decides if he says no they can appeal it to Schiffs Committee for him to rule on whether or not his denial of their request is valid,,,,,,

    That’s Due Process….. ? No that’s a sham, a kangaroo court.

  201. source PBS link to the actual document

    https://d3i6fh83elv35t.cloudfront.net/static/2019/10/BILLS-116-HRes660.pdf

  202. The actual wording from what was voted on and passed…..

    Yes, it says it in the link I supplied. It also doesn’t say what you allege it says.

    Schiff’s the chair of the Intelligence Committee and it’s right and proper that procedural matters go through the chair.

    Now, if you’re speaking about trying to block testimoney:

    https://www.npr.org/2019/10/31/775266947/judge-pushes-back-on-trump-lawyers-trying-to-block-possible-impeachment-witnesse

  203. no you are wrong….. he gets to deny the defenses subpoena’s and they don’t like his decision it’s ok that the person they have to for appeal is the person who just denied the subpoens and you think that’s fair and due process…… lmao

    done I’m wasting my time.

  204. Due process is irrelevant. The rights of a criminal defendant are irrelevant to this matter. This is not a criminal investigation. Impeachment is a political process, not a criminal or legal one.

  205. It doesn’t say that at all, did you read your own link?

    The ranking minority member may submit to the chair, in writing, any requests for witness testimony relevant to the investigation described in the first section of this resolution within 72 hours after notice is given for the first hearing

    Got that? The Reps can request any witness testimoney. Should that request be rejected:

    In the case that the chair declines to concur in a proposed action of the ranking minority
    member pursuant to subparagraph (A), the ranking minority member shall have the right to refer to the committee for decision the question whether such authority shall be so exercised and the chair shall convene the committee promptly to render that decision

    It absolutely doesn’t say what you allege it says:

    The defense can’t call a witness unless the prosecution approves

    Still trying to hide behind procedure? I really shouldn’t expect anything less for a guy who claimed:

    The hearings were being held in secret with no means of defence.
    Republicans were being ‘locked out’ of the hearings.
    Those imparting testimony from the hearings were divulging classified information.
    Whas what was being said at the hearings was ‘hearsay’
    That testimony given is nothing more than opinion.

    True attempted witness silencing:

    https://www.npr.org/2019/10/31/775266947/judge-pushes-back-on-trump-lawyers-trying-to-block-possible-impeachment-witnesse

    Now, please:

    Supply links which state that there must be due process in preliminary evidential hearings.

  206. Bribery is specifically listed in the Constitution as an impeachable offense. Donald Trump engaged in Bribery. Case closed.

  207. Curious

    Why do you overseas guys care so much about an arcane US impeachment matter

    It is important but you guys care about it more than most Americans do

    I follow Brexit but not like you follow this thing

  208. I’m interesting in politics in general, arcane or otherwise. So I take a strong interest in US matters (and for that matter British matters, French matters, German matters etc…).

  209. *interested in politics

  210. I hate this

    The news channels rarely report the news here anymore.

    Its all Trump called someone a name, Lindsay Graham said Trump is the messiah, Nancy Pelosi said that Trump gets hanged at dawn tomorrow.

    Noone reports the real news anymore, its just Trump Trump Trump

  211. There is a “celebrity” in the White House. It was bound to cause the celebritisation of politics.

  212. It is important but you guys care about it more than most Americans do

    I follow Brexit but not like you follow this thing

    I really don’t care wheither they impeach the sleaze or not but I think the slur campaign against Biden was lower than a snake’s spheres and the impeachment stuff is tied up in that.

    The constant lying and then lying to cover those lies has been breathtaking.

  213. I also have to admit a morbid fascination at how vindictive and dumbed down political discourse has gotten in the US.

  214. For me its selfish
    I own a latino factory in Texas that makes orange jump suits
    I want my workers to have a good xmas , the More Trump and his people go down, its means i can pay those xmas bonus’s

    nah seriously, its frightening, you have a “bad hombre” in the WH its very destabilizing on some many levels: the sanctity of truth, morality, integrity , values. Were Trumps to get away with it, its sets a terrible precedent. Future presidents will do worse, thinking they got it made and can do anything they want. I hope they can stop him.

  215. here is a list of some of the best entertainment you’ll ever see Don Jr on the View…..

    Trump Jr. defends tweeting article that alleges whistleblower identity | The View
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNiq1cFfT-4

    Meghan McCain Confronts Donald Trump Jr. on His Father’s ‘Character’ | The View
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wbk8AAUJfic

    Donald Trump Jr. on Who He Hopes Will Win Democratic Presidential Nomination | The View
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFnt3zRVio4

    Whoopi Goldberg on ‘The View’ With Donald Trump Jr.: “The Booing Is F***ing Us Up” | THR News
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKsPFWyqGHY

    just fun to watch….. nothing of value except the joy of laughter.

  216. lol
    this is funny too
    an excerpt from the book “A Warning” by someone high in the Trump Admin

    ““It’s like showing up at the nursing home at daybreak to find your elderly uncle running pantsless across the courtyard and cursing loudly about the cafeteria food, as worried attendants tried to catch him,” the author writes, according to the Post. “You’re stunned, amused, and embarrassed all at the same time. Only your uncle probably wouldn’t do it every single day, his words aren’t broadcast to the public, and he doesn’t have to lead the US government once he puts his pants on.”

  217. No you are wrong….. he gets to deny the defenses subpoena’s and they don’t like his decision it’s ok that the person they have to for appeal is the person who just denied the subpoenas.

    Incorrect Pat, they appeal to the commitee

    The ranking minority member shall have the right to refer to the committee for decision the question whether such authority shall be so exercised

    And just FYI Pat, nine of the twenty two HPSCI’s member are Reps, (the same Republicans who were locked out of the same preliminary evidential hearings).

    When the hearings become public the fig leaf of procedure will be blown away. What are the odds on Rudi being bussed?

  218. hi paul
    I mailed a thread to Pat this morning, asking that we could have one place for all the impeachment news

    The contention is clear:
    GOP want to call witnesses outside of the parameters of the enquiry, in order to turn the hearings into a circus. Schiff is being very firm here , and stipulates the witnesses must be connected to the terms of the impeachment, and not entertaining side-shows.

    GOP cry foul, but you have to have a direst but fair set of terms or its just chaos.
    Republicans would call jokers like Rush Limabaugh if they could , and ask him to expound on his views of why Hilary is crooked and other conspiracies going back to 2016 and argue this is relevant to the inquiry – stuff like that .. Must not happen, not gonna happen

    Lots of toys, prams and dirty diapers currently on their way to DC
    Lets keep it clean

  219. wonder if GOP will call Hannity ? He’s at the heart of this in many ways ?

  220. “ Lord Haw Haw “ Hannity is a de facto member of the administration

  221. GOP want to call witnesses outside of the parameters of the enquiry, in order to turn the hearings into a circus. Schiff is being very firm here , and stipulates the witnesses must be connected to the terms of the impeachment, and not entertaining side-shows

    That’s absolutely the tactic Kurt, to try and discredit the hearings with irrelevancies.

    Schiff is much too cute for that rubbish:

    The ranking minority member may submit to the chair, in writing, any requests for witness testimony relevant to the investigation

    Expect more attempted obstructionism, obfuscation and distortion on this particular point.

  222. outside the enquiry……. the enquiry is about a Phone call out of the dozen witnesses they’ve had how many were on the Phone Call ?

    Answer 1 person so none of those “witnesses” have been part of the subject of the enquiry…

    or is this not about a phone call……

    There is no Prima Facie crime, and you people are being foolish.

  223. Incorrect Pat, they appeal to the commitee

    Who’s the head of the Committee ? Schiff……. you’ve never watched an American Govt Committee hearing have you ?

    do yourself a favor watch cspan 1, cspan 2, cspan 3, learn how things work…..

  224. There is no Prima Facie crime

    So,

    First it was that the hearings were being held in secret with no means of defence.
    Then is was that Republicans were being ‘locked out’ of the hearings.
    Then it was that those imparting testimony from the hearings were divulging classified information.
    Then is was what was being said at the hearings was ‘hearsay’
    Now it’s that testimony given is nothing more than opinion

    And now it’s ‘no Prima Facie crime’:

    https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/25/trump-asked-ukraine-president-if-you-can-look-into-biden-and-his-son-in-phone-call.html

    There’s your PF. Now it may not be a ‘crime’ (since when did impeachment necessitate a crime to have been committed?), but it is illegal.

    Soon there’ll be no more procedural fig leaves to hide behind.

  225. Who’s the head of the Committee ? Schiff

    Schiff’s the chair of the Intelligence Committee and it’s right and proper that procedural matters go through the chair

    And just FYI Pat, nine of the twenty two HPSCI’s member are Reps, (the same Republicans who were locked out of the same preliminary evidential hearings).

    Expect more attempted obstructionism, obfuscation and distortion on this particular point.

  226. lmao…. Due Process

    House Intelligence Chairman Adam Schiff (D-Calif.) sent a letter to the top Republican on the committee on Wednesday, asking him for the names of any witnesses the GOP wants to question as part of the impeachment inquiry against President Donald Trump.

    Schiff told Rep. Devin Nunes (R-Calif.), ranking member of the committee, that he has 72 hours to submit witness requests in writing, per the recent impeachment process resolution that House Democrats passed but was opposed by all GOP members and two Democrats. The letter (pdf) misidentifies the date of Saturday as Nov. 8 when it’s actually Nov. 9.

    Democrats don’t plan on having all the witnesses who testified behind closed doors testify in the upcoming public impeachment hearings so if Republicans want, they can request any of the witnesses to testify in public.

    Schiff said each request “must be accompanied by a detailed written justification of the relevance to the inquiry of the testimony of each requested witness.”

    Here is a copy of the Letter…… Witnesses can only be called if he approves and they fall into the 3 questions spelled out in this Letter

    https://intelligence.house.gov/uploadedfiles/20191106_-_hpsci_ch_letter_to_rm_re_witness_requests_-_9183653.pdf

    That’s not Due Process.

  227. Paul the Democrats control the House intelligence committee they are the MAJORITY it doesnt matter if there are 100 Republicans on the committee. There are 101 Dems which means no on speaks except who the chair of the committee allows to speak and the vote in the committee goes along party lines which means what Schiff wants gets done.

    You really have no clue how the American Govt works.

  228. That’s not Due Process

    I’m afraid it is.

    The ranking minority member may submit to the chair, in writing, any requests for witness testimony relevant to the investigation […]

    And just FYI Pat, nine of the twenty two HPSCI’s member are Reps

    Were they the Republicans who were ‘locked out’ of the preliminary evidential hearings?

    That’s absolutely the tactic Kurt, to try and discredit the hearings with irrelevancies.

    Schiff is much too cute for that rubbish. Expect more attempted obstructionism, obfuscation and distortion on this particular point.

    IYO Pat, is this obstruction of due process?

    https://www.npr.org/2019/10/31/775266947/judge-pushes-back-on-trump-lawyers-trying-to-block-possible-impeachment-witnesse?t=1573216480768

  229. There is no Prima Facie crime

    So,

    So there are no grounds, just like there was no Prima Facie crime with Mueller and people are going to go to jail for setting that hearing up….

    All 3 of the other Impeachments there was a Prima Facie crime. Once again you don’t know how things are supposed to work, and you are not willing to learn.

  230. Paul the Democrats control the House intelligence committee they are the MAJORITY it doesnt matter if there are 100 Republicans on the committee.

    That’s what theSC and Judicial Review are for. Due process.

  231. Ok gee you’re right the President is a crook ask Phantom he has no rights and must be removed.

    Never mind there is no crime, no misconduct, nothing he just needs to go…..

    Sorry it doesn’t work that way.

  232. That’s what theSC and Judicial Review are for. Due process.

    LMAO

  233. Do pat what are you arguing for that would make it fair in terms of GOP calling witnesses. ?

  234. here’s a good article

    http://newswithviews.com/largest-u-s-police-union-says-congress-is-violating-trumps-right-to-due-process/

  235. Kurt all they have to do is follow the Rules……. as they have existed for every other President that was impeached.

    I don’t care if they want to impeach him as long as he gets Due Process.

  236. Hard to read on phone but it looks like a lot of general bluster not specifics like details. What precisely is the objection?

  237. no due process

  238. What precisely is the objection?

    These are the objections Kurt:

    The hearings were being held in secret with no means of defence.

    * Batted out of the park as a fallacy

    Republicans were being ‘locked out’ of the hearings.

    * Batted out of the park as a fallacy

    Those imparting testimony from the hearings were divulging classified information.

    * Batted out of the park as a fallacy

    What was being said at the hearings was ‘hearsay’

    * Batted out of the park as a fallacy

    That testimony given is nothing more than opinion.

    Dealt with yesterday at 4.13 pm above:

    Got that? He said that two SD apartment officials told him:

    Mr Trump would not “sign a cheque” for nearly $400m (£311m) in US military aid until Ukrainian officials announced an investigation into Democratic presidential contender and former US Vice-President Joe Biden

    That’s not an opinion, that’s testimony given stating what two SD officials actually said to him

    And now, ‘no due process’

    Which, if Pat’s claims, (which have absolutely no substance barring a Louisiana Republican’s unsubstantiated allegations), are true then the procedures can be challanged to be Judicially Reviewed by the appropriate court, ie, due process.

    At every stage Trumpeteers have attempted behind procedure in an attempt to save the Golden One but the noose is tightening.

    * Details available upon request.