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When You Wish Upon a Starr

By Mahons On November 20th, 2019

Ken Starr on Fox News has stated that today was a bombshell day, and that articles of impeachment for contempt, obstruction and bribery are certain. Apparently Trump megadonor and Ambassador Sondland’s testimony that therewas a quid pro quo, that it was directed by the President and that the President, his lawyer,the Vice President and the Secretary of State were “all in the loop”.
I wonder if the President of the Ukraine wore a blue dress? I suspect blue might not be his signature color.
Starr had been on Fox essentially shitting on the impeachment proceedings until today. This change of observation might be the first break in the dam. Time will tell.

74 Responses to “When You Wish Upon a Starr”

  1. Mahons is so excited he stuttering as he types….. lmao

  2. Starr, who yesterday said the House Intelligence Committee impeachment hearings had not proven a crime, said today that things had changed with Sondland’s testimony. (Sondland, the ambassador to the European Union, implicated both Trump and personal attorney Rudolph Giuliani today in a “quid pro quo” with Ukraine). ( yahoo news )

    Patrick, are you gathering up your pitchfork and torch yet?

  3. If only Democrats had realised two decades ago that Starr is the voice of reason.

  4. Since you see him as the voice of reason here Pete, we will await your condemnation of Trump.

  5. We haven’t had a conclusion yet. That’s basic.

    The President’s witnesses might demolish the case for the prosecution.

  6. Now, let the fake news guys get their stories straight

  7. They have found no crimes Phantom find a crime I’ll hand them out.

  8. You disagree with Ken Starr Patrick?

  9. “They have found no crimes Phantom find a crime I’ll hand them out.”

    Whether they have found crimes or not is a different matter. Impeachment deals with misconduct by the President, not just illegal misconduct by the President.

  10. totally Mahons

  11. We haven’t had a conclusion yet. That’s basic

    Yes, Pete, always the guy to wait until the facts and circumstances emerge first before commenting.

    They have found no crimes Phantom find a crime I’ll hand them out

    Doesn’t impeachment encompass political impropriety as well as criminal acts?

  12. There will be an impeachment in the House.

    There will not be a conviction in the Senate.

  13. Yes because the Republican Senators don’t care about the evidence, and neither do most core Trump supporters

  14. There will be an impeachment in the House.

    There will not be a conviction in the Senate

    Correct, and it will be trumpeted from the high heavens as an exoneration.

  15. The Government in Ukraine is illegitimate.
    Bizarre that none of those concerned appear willing to bring that up?
    The actual President of Ukraine is currently in Russia i believe.

  16. Phantom, on November 20th, 2019 at 7:24 PM Said:
    Yes because the Republican Senators don’t care about the evidence, and neither do most core Trump supporters

    Evidence of what Phantom ?

    There has not been a single piece of evidence presented. There has been nothing but the opinion of disgruntled diplomats.

    As for any material so called crime. Ukraine got the Aid, Ukraine got the missiles, The Ukrainian President got the Phone call of support he wanted.

    The Ukrainians have NOT reopened the case into Burisma, They have not opened or turned over any information on the Bidens.

    So explain to me what in your view has been done criminal ?

    I don’t see it, but your smart explain to me what evidence or facts that I’m missing.

  17. The Government in Ukraine is illegitimate

    Are you suggesting that the Trump administration was aiding an illigetimate government JM?
    That’ll be why they’re unwilling to bring it up then?

  18. “So explain to me what in your view has been done criminal ?”

    Articles of Impeachment deal with misconduct by officials, not crimes.

  19. Ken Starr on Fox News has stated that today was a bombshell day, and that articles of impeachment for contempt, obstruction and bribery are certain.

    Even more certain is that Starr will not appear again on Fox for a long time. He has joined the ranks of the traitors.

  20. But they didn’t banish Napolitano, who has condemned Trump’s conduct.

  21. Paul

    Absolutely.

  22. “The actual President of Ukraine is currently in Russia i believe.”

    There are two options. Either Volodymyr Zelensky is the legitimate President of the Ukraine or there is no legitimate President of the Ukraine. Viktor Yanukovych is certainly not the legitimate President of the Ukraine.

    There is some argument to suggest that the removal of Viktor Yanukovych was not constitutional (as the Rada didn’t have a quorum when they voted to remove him), and there is huge evidence to suggest that supporters of the Euromaiden (literally) tortured Volodymyr Rybak into resigning as Chairman of the Rada, and as such Rybak’s successor as Chairman, and thus acting President upon Yanukovych’s illegal removal, Oleksandr Turchynov, was such not legally President. However there have been two Presidential elections since that occurred. So while it is perfectly acceptable in my opinion to view the Turchynov presidency as illegitimate I don’t see how that could be extended to either the Poroshenko presidency or the Zelensky presidency.

    Secondly, even if one views the current government as illegitimate the Ukrainian constitution limits the President to two five year terms. Viktor Yanukovych was elected in January 2010, and took office in February 2010. So his term, and thus his Presidency, ended even unofficially in January 2015.

  23. “all in the loop”.

    that’s the bombshell, they’re all toast

  24. Seamus…

    As far as i am concerned Yanukovych is and remains the legitimate President of Ukraine.
    Removed by violence and mob rule but a tiny minority in Kiev. The world was silent and falling over themselves to recognise the new Government as they seemed to be ‘friendly’ to the West.
    The only people who can elect or remove the President is the majority of the people of Ukraine. That didn’t happen.
    It wouldn’t be the first time that the US and most of the rest of the world couldn’t wait to legitimise something they shouldn’t have.
    ‘Kosovo’ springs immediately to mind.

  25. “As far as i am concerned Yanukovych is and remains the legitimate President of Ukraine.”

    There is no way he possibly could be the legitimate President of the Ukraine. His term expired nearly 5 years ago.

  26. Sondland’s testimony is interesting, but not just because he has blown “no quid pro quo!” out of the water.

    He is a Trump loyalist who donated to the campaign to such an amount that he was rewarded with a plum ambassador job, so he cannot be dismissed as a “never Trumper” or a foreign-born traitor who just happens to have won US military honours.

    And also because his testimony puts Pence and Pompeo firmly in the firing line, as well as President Liar. And of course Crooked Rudy, but he was toast already.

  27. Seamus..

    Normally yes but he wasn’t given the opportunity (by violence) to either serve full term or to be nominated for re-election. He has yet to be democratically voted out of office by the majority of the Ukrainian people.
    Violence should never win and it’s made even sadder that it’s excepted by so many other so called civilised countries.

  28. “He has yet to be democratically voted out of office by the majority of the Ukrainian people.”

    Neither has Barack Obama. Is he still the legitimate President?

    Even if Viktor Yanukovych’s removal was illegal his Presidency ended in January 2015. He was not re-elected. You get elected as President. You don’t get unelected.

    As I said either Volodymyr Zelensky is the legitimate President of the Ukraine or there is no legitimate President of the Ukraine.

  29. JM,

    Interesting point of view…and not without some merit.

    Can be dangerous though – is Batista still the legitimate president of Cuba? Allende of Chile? De Valera of the all-Ireland Republic? Presumably you support Morales in Bolivia and the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt?

  30. MoureReg

    Each situation can be and often is different.
    I would have to study the background of each of those you mention in more detail before i could give you my opinion on them.

  31. Castro and his successors took power at the point of a gun, and they’ve promised free elections since 1959 and the Cubans are still waiting for them.

    We can all agree that government is not legitimate.

  32. Castro and his successors took power at the point of a gun, and they’ve promised free elections since 1959 and the Cubans are still waiting for them

    Not the only dictator in Latin America to take power at the point of a gun mind you.

  33. And none of them were legitimate.

  34. True. Although some were treated as if they were.

  35. PVR

    “They have found no crimes Phantom find a crime I’ll hand them out.” The crime is bribery. You give me “this” (investigate the Bidens, etc.) and I’ll give you “that” (military assistance, a visit to the White House). Whether “this” or “that” was actually fulfilled is irrelevant, it is a crime to attempt bribery which clearly took place.

  36. Not merely a crime, but in the context of using millions of military aid to get a foreign power to assist in dicrediting a political rival -a High Crime.

  37. This is what happens when you have a president that doesn’t know anything.

    Rudy should have known better, but Trump almost gets a pass by means of naivete ignorance and bad mental capability

  38. Behaving badly hasn’t particularly been a negative for him.

  39. phantom I’m holding back till i hear the whole story , I have a sneaky suspicion Rudy put Trump up for this; and then Trump directed it ..
    ofc the corrupt Don went for it, when he should have used Gandalfs words to wormtongue
    “Be silent! Keep your forked tongue behind your teeth.”
    But he’s too stupid
    Both equally guilty and should spend the rest of their miserables lives in prison

  40. Like they say in baseball, Rudy has lost his fastball.

    It may well have been all his idea. Rudy was always very aggressive as a prosecutor, then as mayor.

    He had a towering reputation nationally and beyond, and now he will largely be known for is role in a political disaster that was entirely avoidable, one that may seriously wound the Republican Party even more than the president has wounded it.

    I take no pleasure in saying this.

  41. Hunter Biden in that job was awful, disgusting, swampy.

    But Joe Biden’s comment and his actions as we know them were simply not wrong.

    Trump could have made political hay about the Hunter Biden fake job all day long and it would have been correct to do that. But he just couldn’t stop there.

    Most normal people have try to stay on the right side of the line, and will try to be aware of the importance of what may appear bad, even if in their mind it isn’t bad.

    Trump has no such filter. He doesn’t care where the line is. That may cost him dearly.

  42. Trump is being accused of doing exactly what Joe Biden did, and admitted to it with there being all corroborating evidence in support of Biden’s admission.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/53a5b8015f1797d72c301dee6596c01b785c40f74b934d57b3eb76b9dd5d27af.png

  43. No.

    Not funny either.

  44. Sondland happily drove the bus over everyone today. It was quite unexpected – I thought he’d take the fifth!

    I’ve been reading the usual pro-Trump defense rebuttals today and they’re all weak sauce. I then sought out staunch conservative opinions (people who like many of Trump policies) and found one worth sharing.

    Written by Bryan Gividen, a very conservative attorney from Dallas, Texas.

    I am a pro-religious liberty, pro-life, would snort Cocaine Mitch’s judicial confirmations if I could, kind of conservative.

    I will explain exactly once why conservatives should support impeachment based on what is publicly available and undisputed.

    At this point, there is no question that President Trump directed U.S. officials to withhold security funding to the Ukraine so Ukraine would investigate the Bidens. That is the kind of abuse of the President’s authority we should not tolerate.

    So it is absolutely clear what we are talking about: the President used hundreds of millions of dollars of taxpayer money as a bargaining chip to make a foreign country investigate his rivals. That is a textbook play from dictators who are trying to keep power.

    “But the Bidens were corrupt!” No clue if this is true, but I don’t care. Americans don’t outsource their investigations of political rivals to foreign countries, especially ones that are themselves full of corruption and especially not with strings attached.

    “But the President has authority over foreign policy!” You’re right, but the President is also accountable for how he uses that authority. And when he begins using it to target Americans to entrench his own power, the Constitution says Congress should act.

    “But the President really has authority over foreign policy!” Again, you’re right. But if Donald Trump made the “foreign policy call” to turn over the White House to Vladamir Putin, do you really think we couldn’t stop him?

    “Democrats are just trying to overturn the 2016 election.” True that a bunch of Ds would impeach Trump if he had sneezed during the oath of office. But stupidity doesn’t excuse stupidity. We’re asking whether President should be impeached, not whether Democrats are consistent.

    “But what about ma’ judges (or abortion or religious liberty or the 2nd Amendment)?” First, realistically, we’re talking about Mike Pence becoming President. He will be as good as Trump was on all of those issues.

    “But what about ma’ judges (or abortion or religious liberty or the 2nd Amendment)?” Second, selling out American national security threatens each one of those issues far more than swapping out Trump for Pence.

    We Americans often take for granted what our security and freedom mean. In recorded history, few have had it as good as we do for as long as we have. A President willing to sell out Americans for his own power threatens what so many have built & fought & bled & died for.

    “But I hate the Democrats.” Even if you do, realize that targeting Americans and selling out national security don’t end with them. Don’t doubt for a second that if Ted Cruz had tried to primary Trump, he’d be next.

    Don’t support impeachment because you like the Democrats. Support impeachment because you fear that Donald Trump’s abuse of the presidency threatens your freedom.

    That’s it. This is the most overtly political tweet I am likely to have ever. Doubt it will move the needle for anyone, but who knows! Maybe if more conservatives speak out, we can move the needle.

  45. Another one worth reading by Tom Nichols.

    Okay, since the Republicans are going down this road, a quick explainer.

    GOP questioners are saying that the President has the right to hold up legally-approved aid.

    He does. But that’s not what happened here. They’re counting on their supporters being too stupid to know it.

    The President can determine if a country has not met the legal conditions for providing aid. If Country X has a bad human rights record, and the aid says “on condition that Country X stop arresting dissidents,” POTUS can choose to determine the conditions have not been met.

    But those are *public* conditions in the aid package, usually made as a determination after interagency working groups have advised the President that Country X is or isn’t in compliance with the conditions of the aid. Congress, if it disagrees, can query WH officials.

    That is not this. In the Ukraine case, the executive branch officials (as Cooper is testifying now) determined that Ukraine had met the conditions attached to aid. Trump then added *secret* conditions through the Three Amigos that were purely to benefit *him*.

    In other words, Ukraine had met the conditions specified when Congress passed the law to grant the aid, but Trump wanted his own set of conditions that amounted to a promise by the Ukrainian president to embarrass Joe Biden on U.S. national television.

    In other words, Trump ignored the conditions set by the law, ignored his own experts, ignored U.S. national security requirements, and said: “None of this moves until Zelensky does this humiliating thing that benefits no one else in the world but me, personally.”

    This is soliciting a bribe…worse, *extorting* a country under attack by Russia, not a normal “hold” on aid. Every member of Congress in that room knows this. They *know* it. But they are counting on their viewers over on Fox not to know it. Hideous.

  46. In other words, Trump ignored the conditions set by the law, ignored his own experts, ignored U.S. national security requirements, and said: “None of this moves until Zelensky does this humiliating thing that benefits no one else in the world but me, personally.”

    And according to Article 2 of the Constitution of the United States of America the President of the United States can do exactly that.

    God bless the Founders.

  47. WRONG

    And when he begins using it to target Americans to entrench his own power, the Constitution says Congress should act.

    busted

  48. Do not forget that by withholding military assistance Trump was helping their adversary Russia. As Speaker Pelosi said about Trump “with you all roads lead to Putin”. So, in addition to the bribery, inviting interference for the 2020 election Trump was also helping Russia. There is a surfeit of reasons for impeachment and conviction.

  49. And according to Article 2 of the Constitution of the United States of America the President of the United States can do exactly that.

    And according to Article 1 of the same constitution the House can impeach him for it.

  50. Just because they go riding together doesn’t mean they’re having full on gay sex
    But Yeah Trump will be remembered as the President who did most to help USA’s Adversaries

  51. The “defense”, as one can see from Patrick’s recent comment offered by Trump apologists, is no longer that he didn’t do it, no longer that the numerous witnesses are not credible, no longer that the Trump administration’s lies are credible, no longer that there wasn’t a quid pro quo,but finally that he can do whatever he wants.

  52. thinking same thing mahons , they appeal to the dictator. “How dare he be held to account?”
    by one of the EQUAL branches of gov’t . They misunderstand the Constitution ( wilfully )
    When you hear the 30% Trump rump attack Vindman and glorify bonespurs you just know they have made the full and complete journey into disappearing up their backsides.
    Sorry I don’t have polite language, because their behaviour: personal attacked are not polite.

    The only question now is after the sonderland iceberg crash will the senate go down with the Trump Titanic or jump.

    Think I’m done for a while here, unless Rudy is charged
    I got offered a place at the most prestigious worship school of Musci in the World for a 2 week intensive course. The names of the teachers offering sessions are the top recording artists , and ofc its in Redding California.
    Last years line up below .. unbelievable opportunity 🙂 xXx I must GO

    https://bethelmusicworshipschool2018.sched.com/list/descriptions/

    Farewell for a while guys

  53. And according to Article 2 of the Constitution of the United States of America the President of the United States can do exactly that.

    Only when acting intra vires though and I very sincerely doubt that the scope of Art 2 allows witholding of international aid on condition that a foreign government investigates a domestic political rival.

  54. But finally that he can do whatever he wants

    That’s the last line of defence, as predicted by a few here over the last few weeks.

  55. Kurt

    Good luck out there

    I am Heading out to California right now!

  56. Kurt

    Both George W Bush and Trump were exceptionally kind to Iran’s interests in The Middle East

    They talked a belligerent game But the Iraq war and the betrayal of the Kurds Were Very helpful to the Islamic Republic’s long-term interests

  57. Test

  58. what are you testing ?do you need help ?

  59. or are you checking your connection from the plane……..

  60. Checking the connection from the plane

    Looks like the Wi-Fi works fine

    Love this technology

  61. It hasn’t been a good week for Patrick’s favourite politicians. Bibi Netanyahu has just be indicted in Israel.

  62. There had been rumors about Bibi and Mrs Bibi since forever

    Israelis don’t mess around. They sent a former president of the country to prison not too long ago?

  63. Indeed. Moshe Katsav was convicted of rape in 2010.

  64. When you wish upon a star of David: Netanyahu has just been charged with corruption by an Israeli court.

  65. Oops, Seamus got in there before me again.

  66. Allan@Aberdeen, on November 20th, 2019 at 11:59 PM Said:

    Trump is being accused of doing exactly what Joe Biden did, and admitted to it with there being all corroborating evidence in support of Biden’s admission.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/53a5b8015f1797d72c301dee6596c01b785c40f74b934d57b3eb76b9dd5d27af.png

    Phantom, on November 21st, 2019 at 12:03 AM Said:

    No.

    Not funny either.

    Well, it is true and I’m sure that you’ll explain (and I’ll read) what the differences are.

    And I agree – it’s not funny. People are being arrested and jailed simply for querying a ‘detail’.

    Phantom, on November 21st, 2019 at 1:44 PM Said:

    Checking the connection from the plane

    Looks like the Wi-Fi works fine

    Love this technology

    I thought that this was available in 2001? If not, how could mobile phone calls be made at 36,000ft in 2001? When I tested European systems in 2010 (London – Barcelona), I found that network connection was lost at above 10,000ft and certainly nothing at cruising altitude over Spain and France.

  67. Pat

    Will you visit Bibi in prison?

    Give him a cake with a saw in it?

  68. Allan

    This is a different technology – wifi via satellite, which you pay a separate per flight charge for

    It is not the normal cellular service from the ground transmitter

  69. Phantom, on November 21st, 2019 at 5:08 PM Said:

    Allan

    This is a different technology – wifi via satellite, which you pay a separate per flight charge for

    It is not the normal cellular service from the ground transmitter

    OK – and that means that I can work whilst in-flight? Excellent

  70. Yes

    I would think that the big airlines would all have this now

    I’ve been trading emails with some one else in hi is in flight today

  71. Trump is being accused of doing exactly what Joe Biden did

    Perhaps both witheld foreign aid.

    One however witheld it in order to implement western – Ukrainian policy and the other witheld it in order to illegally solicit a foreign government to investigate a domestic political rival.

  72. One however witheld it in order to implement western – Ukrainian policy and the other witheld it in order to illegally solicit a foreign government to investigate a domestic political rival…….who had obliged the Ukrainian government to cancel that very investigation – into his own family. I’ll go with that: get the investigation into the Bidens’ corruption re-started and get after Trump for having got it re-started. Let’s see what Ukraine’s investigation uncovers.

  73. I’ll go with that

    I know you will. You’ll go with it because it’s the irresisible conspiracy that you can’t refuse.

  74. Well done Daphne, both posts.