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What’s an ISIS girl like you doing in a place like this?

By Patrick Van Roy On December 2nd, 2019

Guest Post by Paul

Dundalk woman and one time Irish Defence Forces member Lisa Smith has arrived back in Ireland after joining ISIS in Syria and marrying a British Jihadi there who was reportedly killed in a bomb attack. Apparently the Caliphate wasn’t the paradise that Smith expected and now her priority is to return home to Ireland to have her infant daughter educated as “people here aren’t educated” Smith arrived in Dublin airport this morning from a refugee camp on the Turkish / Iraq border on a Turkish Airlines passenger flight, where she was arrested on suspicion of terrorist offences:

 

Lisa Smith arrested on suspicion of terrorist offences

 

People will have their opinions as to whether Smith should be allowed back, under what conditions etc, I have to admit that I’m a bit conflicted over this in that I recognise and applaud the compassion that the Irish Government has shown to one of its citizens while another part of me thinks that she thought the grass was greener on the other side and she made her bad so she can lie it it, (apologies for the horrendous mixing of metaphors).

Now, as I say above, people will have their own opinions as to if Smith should be allowed back but I’d be interested on hearing comments on another element in the equation, Smith has a two year old daughter born in Syria who is an Irish citizen so what’s the opinion on what should happen there? Should Ireland ‘cherish all the children of the nation equally’ or should the child, (and subsequent children from other foreign Jihadi brides and their respective nations), be excluded from having a nationality because of the actions of its mother?

79 Responses to “What’s an ISIS girl like you doing in a place like this?”

  1. Thanks Pat.

  2. no problem

  3. IMO she should never have been allowed back.

    The minute that she became part of the jihad world, she had no nation.

    By showing compassion to a member of the jihad world the Irish government shows a complete lack of compassion to those who will be stuck living next door to her. They deserve condemnation, not praise.

  4. When ISIS eyes are smiling…..the truth is that Ireland probably has insufficient grounds to try the woman for terrorist acts,whether or not she committed them. What is possible although difficult is trying her for unfitness as a mother, and removing the child from her custody.

  5. IMO she should never have been allowed back

    And this?

    Smith has a two year old daughter born in Syria who is an Irish citizen so what’s the opinion on what should happen there? Should Ireland ‘cherish all the children of the nation equally’ or should the child, (and subsequent children from other foreign Jihadi brides and their respective nations), be excluded from having a nationality because of the actions of its mother?

    I suspect Smith won’t be living next door to people in normal society.

  6. I suspect Smith will be living in taxpayer funded accomodations, that she will come out with a book, an she will have softball interviews on Irish media.

  7. I think that it would be logical to say that anyone who voluntarily joins ISIS or any group remotely like ISIS – and voluntarily living with ISIS etc is to be seen as joining them – should be treated the most dangerous of terrorists, and treated accordingly.

    If someone like this accursed Smith returned to say Ireland, she should only be allowed to stay when in a Supermax prison or equivalent.

    In a Europe of ” half off ” wink and a nod prison sentences that won’t ever be the law, and Europe will pay the price for that.

  8. Good post Paul.
    This is a difficult one, but in my opinion these people shouldn’t be allowed back.
    I’m sure many of then regret their actions, but there’s going to be a significant minority that are indoctrinated into this terrorist mindset. I just think the risk is too high.

  9. mahons 131

    Spot on.

    ” Ach, what the poor woman has been through. Don’t be so cruel as to not want her living next to you “

  10. The child however is a different story. By law the child is an Irish citizen, or at least has a claim to Irish citizenship. As a humanitarian gesture Ireland has a right, and possibly a duty, to take in the child.

  11. Phantom, once again yu’re not answering the central tenat of the post:

    Smith has a two year old daughter born in Syria who is an Irish citizen so what’s the opinion on what should happen there? Should Ireland ‘cherish all the children of the nation equally’ or should the child, (and subsequent children from other foreign Jihadi brides and their respective nations), be excluded from having a nationality because of the actions of its mother?

    Dave, as I say above, I’m conflicted over this. It’s a difficult one alright.

    As she’s been arrested on terrorsm charges I don’t know if that will be the case Mahons.

    Question: If she were to denounce and absolutely condemn all Jihadism would she be believed?

  12. She doesn’t strike me as a woman in possession of the full shilling so her pronouncements should be met with skepticism, be they condemnation or approval.

  13. Islam teaches its followers to lie – see takiya

    Nothing that she says should ever be believed.

  14. And the point about the child?

  15. It would be the most monstrous case of child abuse to allow that beast to have any further contact with him/her.

    There are plenty of good families in Ireland and elsewhere that would be overjoyed to take the child in.

    Not a hard one to face, not a hard problem to solve.

  16. So we are agreed that the child as an Irish citizen should live in Ireland?

  17. Let the Irish residents here deal with that.

  18. //Apparently the Caliphate wasn’t the paradise that Smith expected and now her priority is to return home to Ireland to have her infant daughter educated//

    The Islamic idyll turned sour for her only after the Jihadists got their asses kicked by the Syrian army, US drones and the Kurds and the whole shambles collapsed. If IS had been able to behead its way to power in Syria, you can bet she’d still be there with the best of them and nursing her child on fanatical hatred.

    But the mother and child are Irish citizens and the State is legally obliged (as far as I know) to take them back. A mother also can’t legally be kept from her child. Revoking citizenship of some uncomfortable but native-born national was a practice that I know only from the GDR. At any rate, it isn’t legally possible, or is at least without precedent, in Ireland. So far, people have lost citizenship only very rarely and always by way of granted naturalisation being revoked, not in the case of someone Irish by virtue of birth.

    The State had to deal with all people equally: if she committed a crime or poses a risk to others, she’ll have to be removed from society, but you can’t dump her on some other country to sort out.

  19. If the mother was an axe murderer, she’d be kept from her child.

    This mother is twice as bad as that.

    If the law is no good, then change the law ( not that this will happen )

  20. Curious also that she worked on the government jet and came within arm’s length, or knife length, of several Taoisigh.

    That’s our Lisa there standing to the right of Bertie. I hope the Jihadists appreciated those fine legs. (is that sexist?)

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/isil-bride-lisa-smith-from-flying-the-world-with-taoiseach-to-war-and-misery-in-syria-37896496.html

  21. Lisa Smith first approached the Muslim community in Dundalk in 2010 hoping to convert.

    Ah yes, a convert.

    This is exactly and precisely what attracts them to this ” religion “.

  22. //If the law is no good, then change the law //

    The law is good enough as it is.

  23. Let the Irish residents here deal with that

    Why? None of us are residents of Israel etc and we have plenty of opinions on that.

    The law is good enough as it is

    Maybe the Irish here should be the judge of that?

  24. The law is good enough as it is

    Whoops!

    If the law is no good, then change the law

    Maybe the Irish here should be the judge of that?

    BTW Noel, completely agree.

  25. Enjoy the new neighbor.

    Have fun.

  26. //This is exactly and precisely what attracts them to this ” religion “.//

    What is??

    Phantom, in her case – and I’ve absolutely no doubt this applies to many other converts – she obviously wasn’t primarily attracted by the violence. It’s almost certain that she was a confused and unstable woman, who sought salvation is various religions before turning to Islam with all its trite certainties and dogmatism. Her Islamic “faith” was, even in Dundalk, immediately noted for its fanatism and a persecution complex bordering on paranoia. There’s no way she could have got that crap from the Koran, or even from her Muslim teachers, so quickly.

    She was looking for something with easy answers to complex questions and that does not brook any doubt or criticism. If it weren’t Islam, it would have been communist dogma or some other simplified world view. A generation or two ago she would have had a range of local paramilitary groups to choose from (especially in Dundalk !), a few generations further back and she’d probably have become a nun.

  27. Were she to be stripped of her nationality what would stop her claiming asylum as a stateless person?

  28. On another note, it just goes to show you how shitty Dundalk is if she legged it to Syria.

    It’s almost certain that she was a confused and unstable woman

    “I was looking for answers, some people go through life and they’re looking for answers, they’re reading books, why are we here? They’re asking questions,” she said.

    “I was very depressed in life. I didn’t want to live anymore. I was one of these people that was like suicidal, you know, because there’s no answers.

    “I don’t know what’s going on. So if you don’t get answers, you’re probably going to end up killing yourself.

    “You’re reading Christian books, reading spiritual books, going to spiritual healers, going to fortune tellers.

    “You’re just trying to grab on to everything to keep yourself sane. So then I came across Islam and that was it,” she said

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/my-struggles-with-depression-brought-me-to-islam-says-isil-bride-smith-37992111.html

  29. Noel

    I appreciate your thoughts, but I think that it was precisely the violence that attracted her to this thing.

    Paul

    Jihadi molls shouldn’t get an asylum hearing, much less asylum on funded by the taxpayer.

    If Ireland is forced to take her by virtue of some moral confusion, I’d recommend a supermax prison cell three or thirty stories below the ground.

  30. Jihadi molls shouldn’t get an asylum hearing, much less asylum on funded by the taxpayer.

    Your suggestion that she be stripped of her nationality would entitle her to precisely that.

  31. I said that you had bad law. You think that bad law is good.

    In a fair world, she should be entitled to nothing. She should have no country.

    To those who showed no mercy, let no mercy be shown.

    If she ever walks the streets again, that is a hate crime against the community.

  32. I said that you had bad law. You think that bad law is good

    You’re making things up again. I said no such thing but if you want to point out the bad law I’ll give you my opinion on it.

    As for ‘my’ bad law, it’s International Law which both my country and your country are party to:

    https://www.unhcr.org/un-conventions-on-statelessness.html

  33. The first duty of any nation is to protect its people. All else, including ” international law ” comes after that.

  34. And how would stripping her of her nationality and making her a stateless person protect Ireland and the Irish from her?

    Bizarre comment.

  35. If she had not been allowed to return, the Irish people never be exposed to her.

    Do the math.

  36. She would have been able to apply for asylum as a stateless person.

    I know that you’re firing on both emotional cylinders here but that’s the reality.

  37. I would want there to be zero possibility that she would ever walk the streets of Dundalk or Dublin ever again.

    There’s little emotion in that, only a desire to protect the population.

    If international law says that stateless mad dogs should be set free in the kintergarten, I don’t listen to that law.

  38. A load of issues at play here. Human rights, protection of the family, protection of society.

    Is she just an idiot who made a dreadful mistake or a fanatic? All the sympathy here is for the child and Lisa’s (presumably mortified) family.

  39. Paul

    Question: If she were to denounce and absolutely condemn all Jihadism would she be believed?

    That’s not a question I can truthfully answer because of course she could be lying and there’s no way of anybody knowing that.
    The big problem here is that even ISIS itself has told its remaining followers to go back to thier home countries and commit acts of terrorism. I’m not saying that all returning Isis fighters would commit these acts, but I just think the risk is great at a minority of them will.
    if Ireland wanted to take her child as an Irish citizen then I have no problem with that, except that would mean splitting up mother and child.

  40. //The first duty of any nation is to protect its people.//

    She is one of the Irish people.

    The state’s duty is to protect law-abiding people and punish those who break the law.
    Let’s hope it does both in this case.

    //Is she just an idiot who made a dreadful mistake or a fanatic? //

    It isn’t either or. People make dreadful mistakes by becoming fanatics. She can be, most likely is, an idiot, someone who made a dreadful mistake and a fanatic – all three.

    The authorities have to see if she committed a crime (including damaging Ireland’s interests) and/or is a danger to others.

    Several young women and girls claim she gave them training in weapons and general jihadist stuff in Syria. As a woman with state military training she was obviously an asset to the organisation.
    Ideally some of these women would be called as witnesses in her trial. Their story sounds plausible, but they could possibly also just have a grudge etc.
    And of course they’d probably cooperate only in return for some favours – cash or residence in a safe country or asylum in Ireland etc.

  41. It’ll be some craic if she’s out-and-about in Dundalk in the hijab (or, indeed, any poor unfortunate in similar dress).

    “Cmere hi, Lisa. What’s de craic? Are ye comin for a pint? Theres a few boys up in Cross looking for ye to give them a bit of training…”

  42. There’s little emotion in that, only a desire to protect the population

    There’s even less reality in it. I know both Dublin & Dundalk very well and seeing Lisa Smith on the streets of either wouldn’t be high on my list of concerns.

    A load of issues at play here. Human rights, protection of the family, protection of society

    Agreed Reg, that’s why I did the post. I think it’s more complex than the binary sum that some think of it.

    The authorities have to see if she committed a crime (including damaging Ireland’s interests) and/or is a danger to others.

    Agreed Noel. An intense, prolonged interrogation and investigation into the allegations while she wears an electronic tag until such times as she’s not deemed a risk.

  43. Binary has become a kind of curse word among the trendies.

    I’m very binary when it comes to ISIS and it’s friend. So sue me.

  44. I’m very binary when it comes to ISIS and it’s friend. So sue me.

    Phantom, the judge, jury & executioner.

  45. Another great header, Paul, by the way.

    Mahons may look to his laurels. 🙂

  46. Thank you Noel. I was a bit disappointed that no one had latched on.

  47. I’ll respond to the substantive bit in a moment but can I just point out that “cherishing all the children of the nation equally” has bugger all to do with children, and is all about ensuring basic equality for all Irish people?

  48. “The first duty of any nation is to protect its people. All else, including ” international law ” comes after that.”

    And Lisa Smith, for all of her many, many faults, is one of those people. Ergo, the state has a duty, its first duty in your terms, to protect her.

  49. Is she de-programmed ? Regrets?

  50. Seamus, I was using it metaphorically, as I believe it was originally intended, to refer to the citizens of Ireland.

  51. Ultimately states have a responsibility to their citizens, even the bad ones. They also have a duty to everyone else to determining what causes, and then preventing, radicalisation. They failed on that duty. Other, irresponsible nations, have decided to wash their hands of their failures and to pretend that they are not their failures. They were wrong to do so. Ireland made Lisa Smith. Britain made Shamima Begum. One nation is cleaning up their mess. One is not.

    Paul,

    Fair enough. It is one of my bugbears when people using just to refer to children. I think, for example, an anti-smacking charity used it ad nauseam a few years back.

  52. Fair enough. It is one of my bugbears when people using just to refer to children.

    NP

    I’m absolutely aware of its metaphorical symbolism and used it in that context.

  53. Great title poet .
    I’m quite content to let it float there
    What’s an ISIS girl ….
    For fear that anything I say is not an improvement on the text 😊
    My thread I think is called
    Waiting for the knock on the door
    You’ll see why soon I hope

  54. //. It is one of my bugbears when people using just to refer to children. I think, for example, an anti-smacking charity used it ad nauseam a few years back. //

    Indeed. But much worse IMO is the ad-nauseum use of the Bible phrase “suffer the little children” or even “suffer little children” to refer to children suffering, when Jesus meant simply that his adult followers should let the little children come nearer him to hear him.

    As for the “children of the nation”, Pearse meant it to mean not so much all individuals as all the different groups that make up the nation – whether of native or settler background, all religions, all classes and people of all social standing.

    Although the Proclamation is a very fine text, one fault perhaps is that the word “children” occurs no less than four times in 6 short paragraphs. Too often even for a schoolteacher. Also that Ireland is sometimes referred to as “she” and then “it” and then “she” again, which does jar a bit.

  55. Most likely written and drafted by more than one person, hence the distortion.

    And the “children of the nation” is the different groups, as you say. Gael and Gall, Catholic, Protestant and Dissenter etc…

  56. //Waiting for the knock on the door//

    Kurt, I think we had a wee talk about that line, or another from the same source, many, many years ago….

    And then there was the gammon and getting the beauty of it hot 🙂

  57. I think the Turks were no longer going to hold Lisa Smith and the Irish government agreed to take her back. It was in part a mission of mercy by the Irish government. What the Irish do with her is an open question, but I believe the vast majority of the Irish want nothing to do with her, even the muslims in Dundalk. RTE reports her child is with relations, and I’m sure the child will be well looked after and maybe fostered out if she does not stay with relations.

    I agree with Noel’s assessment of her psychological state, screwed up and fell in with a group that welcomed her with an eye as to how they could use her. I know the hellhole where she lived in Dundalk. It is not a surprise one would want to escape it. My guess is that the media will keep on top of this story.

  58. Seamus

    “They also have a duty to everyone else to determining what causes, and then preventing, radicalisation.” Interesting position. How would they go about determining the causes and the prevention? Is that really a responsibility of government?

  59. I’ve been to Dundalk , And I didn’t see any hellhole

    It looked OK to me

  60. Take a walk around Dundalk at the weekend. It’s an open air boxing ring.

  61. haha Noel how could i forget

    “The hot water at ten. And if it rains, a closed car at four. And we shall play a game of chess, Pressing lidless eyes and waiting for a knock upon the door”

    Old Possum

  62. Lisa Smith lived in Muirhavena which is south of the town centre off the Dublin Road. It has had a crime problem for years.

  63. Jim Corr (the Allan@ of Dundalk) will sort this all out.

  64. It’s up to the Republic of Ireland’s Govt to decide what to do?
    In the past they don’t seem to have a had much of a problem with harbouring terrorists so I can only assume they won’t have many sleepless nights over it.

  65. Paul.

    Sorry Paul I forgot to say; your headline on this one is very good. 😁

  66. Reg, I heard a story of an acquaintance being at a charity event in the Waterfront a few years ago that a number of local celebrities were attending, including Jim & Andrea Corr. As the evening wore on my female acquaintance got less inhibited, went up to Jim and asked, what’s got eight legs and seven tits? before immediately answering ‘the Corrs’

    The boul Jim would indeed be in god company in Aberdeen.

    Lisa Smith lived in Muirhavena

    Really? I’m surprised that a member of he Irish Defence Forces would be living in such a run down social housing estate.

    JM, when they pay tax payer’s money to people to shield, pay and direct mass murders and enablers of mass sectarian murder like Brian Nelson, Mark Haddock, Robin Jackson, Gary Haggarty, Ken Barret etc you mighn’t have to be fearful of the windows of that huge glass house you live in being broken.

  67. Cheers Dave.

  68. I heard that Lisa has now decided to return with her child to northern Syria after all.

    She made the decision after she was offered a house in Finglas.

    She said: “The safety of my child has always been my top priority”

  69. There’s a hotel bar by Tower Hill in London called Isis that I’ve been to.

    They refuse to change the name, which is good

    They were ISIS before Islamic State was ISIS

    https://www.yelp.com/biz/isis-whisky-bar-london

  70. Stayed very near there a week or so ago. Would have gone in.. only I hate whiskey (and whisky).

    Theres a Norwegian shop (clothes I think) called UFF. And isn’t there a US tax form known as an IRA?

  71. IRAs are a very common form of retirement savings in the US.

    ( Independent Retirement Account, largely funded by the individual )

  72. MourneReg

    They’d have a decent assortment of beers there to.

    ISIS aims to please.

    Well this ISIS anyway.

  73. Would you like that whiskey with or without ISIS?

  74. Surely someone can petition the state to remove the child from her if she is insisting to take it to Syria.
    The house offer is priceless. I can solve Ireland’s homeless problem. Have them all join ISIS and then move back to Ireland to get a free home.

  75. Noel isn’t being entirely serious Mahons. It’s a variation of my ‘Dundalk was so shitty she legged it to Syria’ above.

  76. Ok.

  77. IRA are also a popular Polish rock band.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPAKwhlDnhI

  78. I’ve just realised something remarkable:

    Bob Dylan wrote a song called ISIS and another called IRA HAYES.

    Stephen Hayes was once chief-of-staff of the IRA.

    Is Dylan trying to tell us something?

  79. A former member of the Irish Defence Forces has been remanded into custody charged with a terrorist offence linked to the Islamic State group.

    Lisa Smith, 38, from Dundalk, County Louth, appeared in court in Dublin on Wednesday.

    She is charged with committing an offence outside the Irish state between October 2015 and 1 December 2019.

    Ms Smith is further charged with being a member of the group known as Islamic State

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-50657042

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