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Happy Election Day

By Phantom On December 12th, 2019

You have a choice between the bad and the very bad.

You have so many talented people in Britain. Pity that none of them will be in charge. Good luck dealing with a vindictive EU and an unfriendly US president.

Well I woke up this morning and I got myself a beer
Well I woke up this morning and I got myself a beer
The future’s uncertain and the end is always near

57 Responses to “Happy Election Day”

  1. Vindictive EU?

    Poor Britain. The EU have been so entrenched, impatient and uncompromising with them.

  2. Good post Phantom, cheers.
    I don’t know what to do. I really can’t bring myself to vote for any of these total f**king wankers.

  3. Paul

    This is a fine mess that Europe has created for itself, and I don’t think that either the EU or the UK should be patting themselves on the back too much.

  4. Let it roll, baby, roll Let it roll, baby, roll Let it roll, baby, roll Let it roll, all night long…….

    GO VOTE !

  5. Vote early and vote often, as they say in Chicago

  6. Mess? the UK is in absolute political chaos as a result of the decision it closely decided in 2016:

    https://www.politico.eu/article/brexit-civil-war-uk-society/?utm_source=RSS_Feed&utm_medium=RSS&utm_campaign=RSS_Syndication

    As for the UK in the EU, there was always going to be a sizeable leave sentiment when rags like the Sun, Daily Lie and sExpress were shit stirring in order to promote their own agenda:

    I once asked Rupert Murdoch why he was so opposed to the European Union. “That’s easy,” he replied. “When I go into Downing Street they do what I say; when I go to Brussels they take no notice.”

    https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/anthony-hilton-stay-or-go-the-lack-of-solid-facts-means-it-s-all-a-leap-of-faith-a3189151.html?fbclid=IwAR1py5CRJz9NCUPjJEKppWMZDvMi5fW2S5qBvznxbK_Wo8TRMmu32soqOPI

    No one’s ‘patting anyone on the back’, you accused the EU of being ‘vindictive’ to Britain when in effect the EU has been anything but, exceptionally facilitating and trying to facilitate her exit as much as possible.

    Your idea of EU vindictiveness of course is the EU not giving Britain absolutely everything she asked for tied up in a pink bow.

  7. //This is a fine mess that Europe has created for itself,//

    I think not even the most paranoid Brexiteer would make such a bullshit claim that the EU is responsible for the political mess in the UK.

  8. The EU has many failings but this is a mess entirely of the UK’s making. The EU (to my surprise) has been astonishingly patient and understanding – whilst protecting its core principles, and being sensitive to the concerns of Ireland.

  9. Noel

    The EU is such a weird contraption, with no peer anywhere in the world.

    Yes, the Brits probably made the wrong decision on Brexit, but I also must question the logic of the EU generally, and of the British voting to get in it

    I don’t think that you will ever see another EU type organization being formed in any other part of the world, after seeing what a tangle you have in Europe now.

  10. Always stay up for the results.
    Midnight on they trickle in then 2am UK time is a flurry peaks like 3am to 4am then tails off . There’s always suprises. Bigwigs loosing seats . Plenty of egg on faces. Squirmy interviews. All part of the energy . BBC swingometet looks at predictions . Gotta be part of it I reckon 🥳

  11. Phantom

    Can you give concrete examples of where the EU has been vindictive towards the U.K. in the Brexit process?

  12. The billions of dollars divorce shakedown comes to mind.

    I don’t see that these amounts were clearly owed.

    But at the point of a gun, the UK agreed to pay.

    I don’t mean to re-hash this ground yet again.

    But I think that we all know that the UK now finds itself marooned between a chilly EU and a US whose leader doesn’t believe in alliances,

    This can’t be what any British thinker had in mind as a good outcome say five years ago. Stuck between emotionally distant giants, with unhappiness widespread in Ulster, Scotland and the south of England.

  13. The billions of dollars divorce shakedown comes to mind

    Shakedown? It’s my understanding that that was a payment for previously committments etc.

    Then don’t rehash old ground. Britain is in a fuck up entirely of it’s own making and not only has the EU not been ‘vindictive’ in this fucking mess, it has been incredibly patient and flexible.

  14. BTW, the UK hasn’t agreed to pay anything ‘at the point of a gun’ The UK can have an absolute clean break from the EU tomorrow morning if it wishes.

  15. yeah EU vincitiveness was always a claim made by Brexiteer nutjobs, not a scintalla of evidence to support — anyhoo what yaz all doing tonite ?
    seamus are you gonna be up for it in Ulster ?
    this guy has a sense of humour voting with a clothes peg on his nose

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ELkcVsjXkAEgQeY?format=jpg&name=4096×4096

  16. Phantom

    That money was not a divorce shakedown, it was a pro rata proportion of budget contributions to fund continuing membership and obligations during a final exit transition period. It was nothing more than would have continued to be paid in the event of staying. The period of transition was entirely up to the U.K. There has been nothing hostile or cold about the EUs behaviour in this matter. The intransigence, incompetence and rancour have all been North of the channel.

  17. Mess? the UK is in absolute political chaos as a result of the decision it closely decided in 2016

    Rubbish. British politics is in a mess because the political establishment refused to abide by our decision. There is no Brexit chaos, only Remain chaos.

    Yes, the Brits probably made the wrong decision on Brexit

    We will decide that, thank you Mr 4th July. If we made a mistake then your country has been in error since 1776 and the Irish since 1916. The difference, of course, is that our revolution was peaceful and democratic. The American and Irish revolutions were horribly violent.

  18. The other tiny little difference you don’t mention Pete is that the Americans an Irish were forced against their will into being part of the ‘British Union’. We never needed a revolution because we have never been held in the European Union against our will. Your comparison are chalk and cheese.

  19. Pete

    No need to be Mr. Snippy.

    Do you think that the EU has been vindictive in any way? How?

    Do you think that the divorce bill is fair?

  20. Colm – the Americans and Irish got OUT: the British are still IN. Violence seems to work.

  21. Rubbish. British politics is in a mess because the political establishment refused to abide by our decision. There is no Brexit chaos, only Remain chaos

    Yes, of course:

    In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way.

    If the Remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it

    https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/nigel-farage-reminded-of-priceless-2016-comments/15/08/

    Sauce for the goose and all that.

  22. Colm –

    The other tiny little difference you don’t mention Pete is that the Americans an Irish were forced against their will into being part of the ‘British Union’.

    Not really, but we are being forced against our will – unarguably against our will – into being part of a European state.

    In truth the American and Irish revolutions were uppity middle class revolts by self-entitled demagogues who wanted more just for themselves. The British revolution is a people’s revolution, a true working class phenomenon.

    Not a word of this can be honestly denied.

  23. The American colonists weren’t all that oppressed.

    The blacks and Indians were the oppressed ones in that situation.

  24. In truth the American and Irish revolutions were uppity middle class revolts by self-entitled demagogues who wanted more just for themselves.

    Yep, thank Christ for true working class heroes like the Nige, JRM, Johnson, Ian Duncan Smith etc.

  25. //the Irish since 1916.//

    //In truth the American and Irish revolutions were uppity middle class revolts by self-entitled demagogues who wanted more just for themselves.//

    The 1916 rebellion was carried out by the Irish Volunteers and the Irish Citizen Army. The latter was almost entire working class, in very many cases the starving class. The Irish Volunteers were also primarily working class and lower middle class.

    Ah, but the leaders, you will say. Well, the only thing the leaders could have “wanted more just for themselves” was lead from British guns. They all knew that was all they could expect and that is all they got.

    You see, the Easter Rising was one of those political acts, selfless to the point of self-sacrifice, that are totally foreign, in every way, to someone with your shallow and opportunist political outlook.

    That’s the way it was seen BY ALL SIDES at the time because that’s the way it was.

  26. Allan

    Do you think we are still in because the Europeans won’t let us go ?

  27. The ‘fine mess that Europe has ceated for itself’ :

    https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_19_4969

  28. lets get on with the election 🙂
    first exit polls out
    con 368 , labour 191

    fuck not even 200 !

  29. Is this a very bad night for the DUP?

  30. Yes. They will have no influence at all in Parliament if the Tories have the majority predicted.

  31. Corbyn deserves to go on the ash heap. As silver linings go in the horror of an unfit individual gaining undeniable success (Boris) at least Corbyn’s unpatriotic, hairbrained ambition and embrace of antisemitism is kicked to the curb.

  32. shows how out of touch Corbyn is that he doesn’t resign immediately

  33. As some of us said, Corbyn was unthinkable as PM to serious British voters. Not just a flawed candidate, but one who was a moral and logical mess. Hamas sends condolences.

    Can Boris grow into a statesman once in office? The US president never had it in him to start acting like a leader who unites. Maybe Boris is different.

    Brexit will happen but remains devilishly difficult to do. Every British person should back now Boris in the still difficult negotiations with Brussels and America that remain. Britain is not without leverage, as I have always said.This should not be a case where the EU issues terms and the UK complies. That’s not how anything works

    Brexit will ultimately lead to a breakup of the UK before long. The pro EU Scots would win a new referendum now, with the cause of remain a strong second reason for voting out of the UK. Before too long, the UK will have two land borders.

    Ireland, already reunited in some ways now, will be become ever more politically distinct from the UK go forward, remaining in an EU de jure and de facto in the two jurisdictions.

    I wish the English people well in their independence, if that’s what this will be, in this interdependent world.

  34. Where are the ATW resident unionists

    Your voice should be here of all places on this of all days

  35. If the American Democrats are smart they will Closely observe these election results in Britain

    Elizabeth Warren Isn’t the horror show that Corbyn is, But like Corbyn, she would deliver the election to the opposition on a platter.

  36. But one who was a moral and logical mess

    Corbyn may be a lot of things, immoral certainly is not one of them and yes, I know that you’re referring to his association with some from Hamas, some here would also apply the same standard to his contact with Irish Republicans.

    Apart from that your 11.25 is pretty spot on. Irsih, Scots and English nationalism were the order of the day and if the Scots’ vote is anything to go by Boris needs to shift that border in the Irish Sea to Carlisle, at least in mental attitude anyway.

  37. This should not be a case where the EU issues terms and the UK complies. That’s not how anything works

    Yet again, as with your ‘vindictive’ comment yesterday, this is an absolute invention on your behalf. If anything it’s been the reverse, the UK issuing terms and the EU bending over backwards in order to facilitate.

  38. I know you think that the UK is a weak smaller pathetic nation now that Should comply with every request of the EU

    This is a negotiation

    In any good negotiation, both get to negotiate

  39. Johnson Did not intend to enable the three nationalist movements

    But That is exactly what he just did

  40. Once the UK is out, it will have the same standing as Norway or Canada had in their negotiations. No worse, no better.

    It can’t be both in and out and have the best of both worlds.

    But in any case, the UK will be reluctant to make a real Brexit in the near future. With someone like BJ at the helm, it could drag on for years.

  41. Will they be expected to pay tribute to an organization That they are no longer of well into the future?

  42. Part of

  43. I know you think that the UK is a weak smaller pathetic nation now that Should comply with every request of the EU

    I don’t think that at all. What I think is that any negotiation is commensurate with power. The UK is around the fifth strongest economy in the world whereas the EU is a bloc of 27.

    We all know that you think the UK should be given everything they ask for and the that EU are being bastards to them but everything that you have said is an absolute invention and there’s really no need to try projecting more inventions onto others when called out on these contrivances.

  44. You mis state my view and you don’t know how a negotiation works

  45. I think you’re view is very clear:

    Good luck dealing with a vindictive EU […]

    This should not be a case where the EU issues terms and the UK complies. That’s not how anything works

    These are simply untruths. The exact opposite is the truth.

    I’m very aware of how negotiation works thank you.

  46. //Will they be expected to pay tribute to an organization//

    Well, they won’t have to, of course. But “expected to”, hmmmmm… I think people expect them to want to buy into the EU.

    //If the American Democrats are smart they will Closely observe these election results in Britain//

    No, that would be very dumb.
    These results are due primarily (but not only) to Brexit and the natural desire to avoid another round of the chaos of the past three years. That doesn’t really apply to the US, unless it also wants to joint the EU (place in the queue behind the UK, please).

    You can see in northern England; the Tories did particularly well in hard Leave areas, and the stronger the 2016 Leave vote, the worse Labour did. In Remain areas, Labour didn’t do so badly. (compare the results in Sutherland and Nottingham – but Ive been working all night, maybe Im getting them mixed up, at any rate 2 of the first three results to be called), which are two similar places, former strong Labour constituencies, except that one voted Leave and one Remain. The results last night reflectd this.)

  47. What I’m saying is that there was a strong corelation between the 2016 Leave vote and the Tories’ success. That was the most important factor. Just have a look at the red-blue constituency map the BBC provides, then compare it to the referendum map.

    It’s wasn’t all due to the British people froathing at the mouth in hatred for Hamas.

  48. These results are also IMO due to

    Jew-hatred and terrorist loving element in Labour. Who in the name of god wants to be part of that

    Irresponsible free stuff platform by Labour. If you’re a hard working Brit, you are well aware that you will be the one paying for the free stuff

    Elizabeth Warren is IMO very much a free stuff class warfare sure loser, similar enough to Corbyn. My US Warren lover pals hate the comparison but it is there.

  49. This has been a true landslide, in seats and votes, not a product of electoral college trickery

  50. yeah its been pretty clean phantom in terms of electoral interference
    we have a few deep state actors in the pay of Kremlin / RT , but nothing of great significance

  51. Ah, RT

    Our good friends

  52. It is worth noting that the Conservative vote is not up substantially. Now they were defending an already high watermark so building on that is impressive. The real story is one of a Conservative resilience and a Labour collapse. That is the story of the election, that the Conservatives could hold their vote but Labour couldn’t. In many places the Labour vote has dropped (either to the Brexit Party in Leave areas or the Liberal Democrats in Remain areas) while the Conservative vote has held steady. The result is the Tories have shattered Labour’s red wall. Seats that should not even be competitive between Labour and the Conservatives have now gone Tory. It is a failure on both sides of the Brexit argument. They have lost votes to the Brexit Party because they rejected the referendum result. They have lost votes to the Liberal Democrats (and haven’t picked up Remain votes from the Tories) because of their inability to get a coherent Remain message on Brexit.

    Corbyn’s allies have insisted that it was Brexit wot won it for the Tories. They have insisted that Labour’s policies remain popular with the electorate and that they had been overshadowed by Brexit. Ultimately there is a certain amount of truth in it. However, for me anyway, it isn’t a defence of the Corbyn leadership, but an indictment. It highlights two failures. Firstly, a campaign is not about two people putting forward their views on the same issues and having people decide which they like best. It is about making those issues you are better on be the focal issues of the campaign. Labour are better on the NHS, on austerity, on education etc… than the Tories. Poll, after poll, after poll bares that out. So the key for Labour is to have the NHS, anti-austerity, education etc… to be the focal points of the campaign. Their failure to do that means their better stances on these issues is irrelevant. If people vote because of the NHS they vote Labour. If they vote on austerity then they vote Labour. The fact that people weren’t voting on these issues highlights the errors of Labour’s campaigning (not just over the election campagin but in the year leading up to it as well). You can’t be Brexit, Brexit, Brexit, Brexit and then six weeks before the election go – oh yeah, by the way, how do you feel about the health service?

    Secondly, it highlight’s Labour’s lack of a position on Brexit. The Brexit referendum was 52-48. Effectively a statistical tie. There is a lot of votes to be one with a pure Remain message. In fact pro-Remain parties took a higher share of the vote than pro-Leave parties. The Conservatives, the Brexit Party and UKIP combined for 45.7% of the vote. Labour, the Liberal Democrats, the Greens, the Scottish and Welsh Nationalists, combined for 50.8% of the vote. Clearly a pro-Remain position is not unpopular – the majority of people in the UK voted for a pro-Remain candidate in the election. Labour’s real problem is that they couldn’t dominate the pro-Remain position in the manner that the Tories dominated the pro-Leave position. Labour took 63% of the pro-Remain vote. The Tories took 95% of the pro-Leave vote. The election being about Brexit isn’t an excuse. Because Labour should have had a strong position (one way or another) on Brexit. They didn’t. And they paid the price.

    Simplicity of message is hugely important in an election, at times almost regardless of what that message is. The Liberal Democrats have largely the same policy now that they had in May. They did very well in May and very badly now. The reason? Their message got long-winded and muddled. They started to explain how they would reverse Brexit. They started to explain their position on other (relatively unimportant) issues. In May they were the “Bollocks to Brexit” party. It was simple, it was effective. They explained their position is 3 words. And that was all they needed. That is one of the major takeaways I have of the campaign. Labour (in both Brexit and all other policies) was too complex. As Governor Mario Cuomo noted “You campaign in poetry. You govern in prose.” Labour didn’t get that. They felt putting the prose front and centre was the right thing to do. The simple fact is that, regardless of the sensibleness of their policies, they had too many policies.

    The Tories in 2017 did that as well. They assumed they were going to win in a landslide so they included too many policies in their manifesto (to give them political cover for some politically unpopular decisions). It backfired immensely. Where as Labour, just as radical last time around as this time, had an effective campaign slogan “for the many, not the few”. They didn’t try to explain their policies to the nth degree. They had them but it was all around this central message.

    This time around Boris had a very effective campaign strategy – “get Brexit done”. It was simple, it tapped into a prevailing mood (whether one is pro-Brexit or anti-Brexit there is a sense of this has gone on far too long), and he was surprisingly disciplined in his campaigning (pretty much with the exception of the wee boy in Leeds in hospital moment). There were small other parts of his campaign (amplified when needed – criminal justice reform following the London Bridge attacks for example) but they never got in the way of the central message. The Scottish Nationalists campaigned on relatively simple terms as well – membership of the EU, and Scottish Independence. They never got into a lot of detail on that but kept it simple. Scotland voted Remain. Let Scotland Remain.

    Regardless of all the issues around Corbyn – if Labour had a simple message, with a clear position on Brexit, then this would have been a much, much closer election.

  53. Having a credible PM candidate might have been nice also

  54. The Tories have just won their largest majority since 1987 without a credible Prime Minister candidate.

  55. Compared to Corbyn, Diane Abbot, or Trump, Johnson is a Churchillian collossus.

  56. And compared to pretty much every other Tory leader since 1987 (with the dishonourable exception of Iain Duncan Smith), who all had worse results than him, Boris Johnson is a charlatan.

  57. Compared to Corbyn, Diane Abbot, or Trump, Johnson is a Churchillian collossus

    Aye, sure he is:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Czvf6-ZYE