web analytics

BORIS NOT A MAN OF THE PEOPLE?

By Pete Moore On December 15th, 2019

He is you know. This is how we all speak to lefties round way, and we’re the people. What’s “lefty tossers” in Homeric Greek?

49 Responses to “BORIS NOT A MAN OF THE PEOPLE?”

  1. Careful, Pete. In a short while you’ll be hating him.

    Remember, you first dismissed BJ’s deal, saying it “wasn’t Brexit”. Now that wasn’t long ago, was it?

  2. A man of the people is someone who puts the interests of the people first.
    And Boris’s track record proves that he puts the interests of Boris first.
    He’s also a very dishonest man.

  3. What does he say there?

  4. I Dunno Phantom. It sounds like ‘fifty tossers.’

  5. Calling your opponent “ scum “

    Now that’s a brilliant way to get people to your side

  6. Ah it’s ‘lefty tossers.’ I probably should have read Pete’s post.

  7. A man who refuses to confirm how many children he has fathered much less if he supports them probably isn’t the most trustworthy of people.

    Maybe he is a man of the people – rumours are that he’s fathered a fair few of them.

  8. Nicely put Paul.
    Here’s a partial list of Boris Johnson’s lies. I warn you, it’s a long list.

    https://boris-johnson-lies.com/

    Boris Johnson voting record on they work for you is also adults with many of the things he claims to believe in and support.

    https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/10999/boris_johnson/uxbridge_and_south_ruislip

  9. Petem’s happy – he’s got someone to worship .

  10. That’s a long list of lies Dave. Whoever is keeping track of them will be busy for the next few years.

    We will soon know if the “one nation Tory” claim is just another lie. Because to deliver on it Johnson will need to purge the Thatcherites from his government. That would mean a swift exit for Pritti Patel and Dominic Raab and Liz Truss. I’m not holding my breath.

  11. I’ve just seen that the Green Party candidate in my constituency lost his deposit! It seems that farmers don’t like eco-commies.

    I live in such a great area.

  12. It seems that farmers don’t like eco-commies.

    They won’t like Johnson’s trade deals with the USA or Brazil either, because they will be out of business soon after. But fear not, Liz Truss says it’s all for the best. We can import all our food if necessary, no worries.

  13. I’ve looked down Dave’s list at 7.10pm and it is incorrect to call some of these ‘lies’ lies, many of which are not even attributed to Johnson, and that’s just without having to back-check:

    26 November 2019
    Nicola Sturgeon “confirmed last night to Andrew Neil” that SNP policy was “to rejoin the EU, to join the Euro”

    Boris Johnson, launch of the Scottish Conservative party manifesto

    It is SNP policy to rejoin the EU after independence from London – though not (yet) to join the Euro

    9 December 2019
    “Let’s get Brexit done and take back control of our fishing waters”

    Boris Johnson, speaking to fishermen in Grimsby

    How can this be considered a ‘lie’?

    There several others which are contentious.

  14. 9 December 2019
    “Let’s get Brexit done and take back control of our fishing waters” Boris Johnson, speaking to fishermen in Grimsby

    How can this be considered a ‘lie’?

    Because he knows it won’t happen? As does everyone else, except maybe you.

  15. The EU will continue to have fishing rights in UK waters?

    Wow what a fair deal that is

  16. Yes Phantom, unless the UK surrenders the right to sell fish to the EU. And that ain’t gonna happen, as Johnson knows, just another lie.

  17. I hope that paul is still awake, so he can tell us how this is such a fair deal

  18. Peter

    Wouldn’t anger be better directed at the EU here?

    Johnson would clearly want to have British waters for British fishermen, will clearly work towards that end.

    Would anyone here think it’s fair that any foreigner have any right to fish in British waters?

  19. //Wouldn’t anger be better directed at the EU here?//

    Go on. Do it. You know you want to. 🙂

  20. Noel

    Do you think that the EU should insist on any continued “ right “ to fish in British waters?

    Serious question

  21. Phantom, the EU is not insisting on anything at this point. What you swallowed about fishing above – dare I say, hook, line and sinker – is fake noos. The issue of fishing rights was left out of Johnson’s deal and will be regulated later.

    There is no single British (or any other country’s) fishing industry. There are many different, often competing, segments – generally according to different fish types and different markets – and each has different interests.

    For example, certain parts of the British deep-sea industry for certain fish types fish in Norwegian waters. This is based on quotas that the EU has negotiated. And naturally these British vessels are desperate to continue this practice.

    Second, Britain exports a very large part of its fish to the EU, again based on agreed quotas. In some parts of the industry, this amounts to around 80 pc of hauls. These export quotas stand in relation to the quotas for other countries, which means other member states can export less. Yes, the export industry in the UK for these fish types want to maintain this freedom to sell too.

    Third, fishing has always been very loosely regulated in Europe. French fishers, for example, have fished in British waters for centuries. Similarly, British vessels fished from Iceland to the Faroes and Denmark etc (listed to the song Shoals of Herring)

    After the EEC was formed, and when the UK joined, the quota system was introduced. The calculation was based on hauls for a certain year (I forget which), but Britain was allowed very generous quotas and their underlying figures were not checked. In many segments, Britain could not utilise its quotas and the quotas were sold to French or Dutch etc. interests. How this will all be rewound now still has to be renegotiated.

    So any rights of EU vessels to fish in Britain waters will be granted, if at all, as part of a deal, with some rights being set off against other rights in the context of what I explained above. There are also several other factors.

    The whole thing is very complicated and even the fishing interests in Britain are at times at loggerheads with each other. It isn’t nearly as simple as Brexiters often imagine (or pretend to. In fact they are usually just engaging in propaganda), and you’ll never get near understanding it with the kind of blinkers you have on when it comes to these things.

  22. You lost the plot after a exceptionally and good detailed response with that last sentence

    The Brexiters including those here may well have been simplistic but – so has Paul and others- here, since the subject of of Brexit first arose

    The response to everything seems to be that the Brexiters are stupid simplistic uninformed and or wrong at all times. It’s a little hard to understand here, but I doubt that it’s that simple.

  23. //seems to be that the Brexiters are stupid simplistic uninformed//

    Phantom, you are simply biased. That can be seen, among 100 other examples, from the way you rush to swallow anything with a hint of the UK being bullied by teh EU.
    When the Brexit press and its follows here, whether British or American, scream about “the EU coming to get our fish”, that is being stupid, simplistic and uninformed.
    Very often British busineses sold their quotas to other businesses domiciled in other countries. How do you regulate that? And that’s just one point. The Brexit British seem to want to walk away from the EU but still hold on to what they have, whether fishing rights and/or the cash from quotas, etc.

    I know a guy in the fishing business in Ireland and he said that fisheries is so complicated because it’s the only industry without premises and that operates outside all jurisdictions. Not sure about that, but EU fisheries is a very intricate matter and it’s not all about screwing the poor British. In fact, Britain has overall been treated very generously simply because the EU has been wooing the UK to stay for the past 30 years.

  24. If a British company doesn’t want to use its fishery quota, take it from them and give it for free to any other British crews/ firms that want to use it.

    Don’t allow sale to any foreigners / crews.

    That might be what the “ stupid Brits “ want.

  25. English and Scottish fisherman’s associations have been critical of continued EU access to British fishing grounds

    Maybe we should listen to them at some point.

    The local workers rights should come first, not those of any company that may hold the rights.

  26. https://www.sff.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/SFF_Summer_screen_2016.pdf

    The Scots fishermen’s views,.. unfiltered ..

  27. The Brexiters including those here may well have been simplistic but – so has Paul and others- here, since the subject of of Brexit first arose.

    Phantom, the vast majority of my comments here on the EU have been explaining the detail of EU policy and institutions in direct response to the simplistic, emotive crap spun by the uber Brexiteers. Whatever I have or haven’t been simplistic isn’t one of them.

    I hope that paul is still awake, so he can tell us how this is such a fair deal

    Whooooa boy, as Noel says above, you rush to swallow anything with a hint of the UK being bullied by the EU. Here’s some of the context and argument:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/aug/31/myth-brexit-bonanza-uk-fishing-exposed-no-deal

    So, as we can see, nothing has been outlined yet. British shellfish exports to the EU alone are worth £430m a year. Tell me Mr Negotiator, what should the quid-pro-quo be in order to mantain that?

    Here’s also an interesting read:

    The “foreign” boats had fished there for decades, sometimes for centuries. A large part of the “tonnage” of the foreign-caught fish consisted, then and now, of species we do not much like to eat (herring or hake, for instance) or species caught for milling into animal feed. The Danes, for instance, take 90% of the sprats in some “British” sea areas – and they did so long before the common fisheries policy […]

    Boris Johnson, Nigel Farage and others like to say that the CFP has “destroyed” the British fishing industry or “halved” the number of British fishermen. In fact, in terms of profits of the big fishing companies, the British industry is one of the most successful in the EU

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/apr/06/ukip-british-fishing-westminster-brussels-brexit

  28. Here’s the position as per the 21 October 2019:

    Non-UK vessels, including EU or EEA registered vessels, will not be permitted to fish in UK waters, unless there is an access agreement and the vessels have the appropriate license […]

    There will be no automatic access for UK-registered vessels to fish in EU, EEA or third country waters. All forms of fishing gear must be removed before Brexit. Any fishing activity outside of UK waters will be considered Illegal, Unreported and Unregulated (IUU).

    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-fisheries-sector-and-preparing-for-eu-exit#access-to-waters

    That’s the reality ATM as opposed to any emotive sensationalism.

  29. Allan.

    I’ve looked down Dave’s list at 7.10pm and it is incorrect to call some of these ‘lies’ lies, many of which are not even attributed to Johnson, and that’s just without having to back-check:

    Allan. Why do you repeatedly try to insinuate that I’ve made claims I never made?
    I never claimed that the list just contains lies made by Boris Johnson.
    As the list itself points out, these are not just lies of the Boris Johnson, they are lies from the Tory party in general. However, the fact remains that there are a great many items on this list that are demonstrably provable to be lies made by Boris Johnson. Rather than your usual diversionary nonsense, why don’t you address the issue?

  30. Allan

    “Let’s get Brexit done and take back control of our fishing waters”

    Boris Johnson, speaking to fishermen in Grimsby

    How can this be considered a ‘lie’?

    There several others which are contentious.

    It can be considered a lie Allan, or at least a bending of the truth because membership of the EU isn’t the only factor in the UK’s fisheries policy. As the item which you supposedly read points out:

    And the UK will still be bound more widely by the UN Conventions on the Law of the Sea and how they relate to fisheries management. This includes an obligation to cooperate with other coastal states on the management of fish stock.
    Verdict
    While the UK will cease to be part of the Common Fisheries Policy, its membership of international organisations and the obligations it will have to accept means the UK is not “taking back control” of its fishing waters. The prime minister is misleading fishermen, who were major supporters of Brexit during the referendum.

    very similar to Boris Johnson’s lie about how much money do we give to the EU, and how much extra money we would have to spend on the NHS.

  31. Most likely the outcome will depend on the free trade deal between the EU and the UK. If the UK wants UK seafood to have tariff free access to EU markets then it will likely have to give at least some access to UK waters for EU fishing vessels. About half of all UK caught fish is exported to the EU so UK fishermen, while pissed off at access for EU fishermen, are likely biting their noses off to spite their face in their support of Brexit.

  32. Phantom –

    What the EU and its supporters are saying, to draw an analogy, is that Mexican farmers must be allowed to farm American land in order for American firms to sell stuff to Mexico.

  33. Pete, Just as Mexico can sell what it likes to the US Britland can sell whatever it likes to the EU however if it wants tariff free access to the biggest single market in the western world it’ll have to negotiate that.

    But you already knew that.

  34. You aren’t that stupid Pete. That analogy isn’t accurate, and you know it isn’t.

    Currently UK fishermen can sell their products into the EU at 0% tariffs. After Brexit that will change. EU tariffs will be upwards of 10%. Some, such as sardines, will be even higher.

    Now the EU Parliament have been clear. 0% tariffs will come at a cost of continued access of EU fishermen to UK waters. It will be up to the UK government to determine if that is a price worth paying.

    For what it is worth it maybe isn’t, as a reduction in EU fishermen in UK waters may increase the catch of UK fishermen, thus offsetting the economic damage of tariffs.

  35. Ah that Boris, a real champion of your average 5’8. A real man of the people:

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-brexit-workers-rights-environment-climate-change-election-a9248611.html

  36. Man of the people ? More like Master of the plebs as I’m sure he would now see himself.

  37. Johnson is by no means the first privileged “man of the people”. And I doubt he will be the last.

    Gaius Julius Caesar was a patrician, who had been amongst the Roman ruling elite for 600 years. His grandfather, Lucius Aurelius Cotta was a Consul of Rome. His great grandfather, also a Lucius Aurelius Cotta, was a Consul of Rome. Four of his uncles, Gaius Marius, Gaius Aurelius Cotta, Marcus Aurelius Cotta, and (another) Lucius Aurelius Cotta, were Consuls of Rome. Marius was in fact Consul of Rome on seven occasions (unprecedented for the Republic). He also instituted the Marian reforms of the Roman legions which were probably the most important military reforms of all time, the creation of the permanent Roman army.

    Despite this Gaius Julius Caesar became Dictator of Rome as the head of the populares. As a man of the people. His principle opponents, ironically, Gnaeus Pompeius Magnus, Cato the Younger, and Marcus Tullius Cicero, were all plebs. The irony of history.

  38. Dave Alton, on December 16th, 2019 at 12:36 PM Said:

    Allan.

    I’ve looked down Dave’s list at 7.10pm and it is incorrect to call some of these ‘lies’ lies, many of which are not even attributed to Johnson, and that’s just without having to back-check:

    Allan. Why do you repeatedly try to insinuate that I’ve made claims I never made?
    I never claimed that the list just contains lies made by Boris Johnson.

    Dave – maybe I misread your starter-for-10 but you wrote:

    Dave Alton, on December 15th, 2019 at 7:10 PM Said:

    Nicely put Paul.
    Here’s a partial list of Boris Johnson’s lies. I warn you, it’s a long list.

    https://boris-johnson-lies.com/

    and the link says “boris-johnson-lies” so I could see no meaning other than what is stated.

    I come from what was a fishing town on Scotland’s east coast and I have relatives in what was a busy fishing port on the west coast. Arbroath now has a marina instead of a working harbour and Ullapool has no locals in fishing worthy of an economy. All of this happened between me leaving school in the late-70’s and having steady work by the mid-90’s. On leaving school, many of my contemporaries could join the fishing fleet and get decent money to such a point that there was a joke of a ‘Peterhead blip’ – a spike in male death rates of 17-19 owing to these immature high-earners crashing expensive sports cars. Now, there is no fishing fleet and no yards needed for construction, repair or maintenance – and this is because of the EU. If Britain had not joined the EU, this would not have happened. When Britain leaves the EU, the opportunity presents itself to take back control of our territorial waters and re-build the fishing fleet.

  39. Now, there is no fishing fleet and no yards needed for construction, repair or maintenance – and this is because of the EU.

    In fact, in terms of profits of the big fishing companies, the British industry is one of the most successful in the EU

    But the UK has also been allocated €243.1m in subsidies between 2014 and 2020 under the CFP. After Brexit, those subsidies will end

    https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/common-fisheries-policy

    With no fishing fleet one wonders where the annual €40.5 million in EU fishing subsidies went.

  40. and the link says “boris-johnson-lies” so I could see no meaning other than what is stated.

    the first paragraphs of the link points out that it’s lies of the conservative party and Boris Johnson. I never intended to deceive the claim that it was just lies of Boris Johnson, just that the list contains a very large amount of lies that Boris Johnson has told. Fair enough, I can understand the confusion.

    If Britain had not joined the EU, this would not have happened. When Britain leaves the EU, the opportunity presents itself to take back control of our territorial waters and re-build the fishing fleet.

    I’m not disagreeing with you Allan, that the EU play a part in our fishing policy. I was just pointing out that Boris Johnson claims that we can take back control of our waters, by leaving the EU is not factually correct. There are many other factors outside the EU that control our fishing policy. This is a bit like claiming, as many who voted to leave believe, that leaving the EU will mean we can control our borders. The truth is we already had a great deal of boarder control, which our government has chosen not to enforce.

  41. With no fishing fleet one wonders where the annual €40.5 million in EU fishing subsidies went.

    I’m now wondering that too. Here is Arbroath ‘marina’, formerly a working harbour for fishing boats and good jobs in filleting, construction and maintenance and, of course, high pay on the boats: that’s all gone.

    https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/local/angus-mearns/849582/arbroath-berth-rate-set-to-rise-with-harbour-pontoon-project/

    In the foreground, one sees quaint lobster pots for near-shore locations using very small boats. All the noise of a working harbour would depress the value of the new properties which now overlook the ‘marina’. What a travesty

  42. A lot of the problems of the fishing industry were caused by overfishing, not just by EU nations either.

    A lot of mistakes were made, not only in European territorial waters

    There were sharp limitations on the catch, and that has helped the cod stocks recover. Those cuts were unpopular among fishermen but they were in the long term interests of all

  43. A lot of the problems of the fishing industry were caused by overfishing

    One fleet in particular hoovers up fish wherever it goes, be it Scotland (both coasts), west Africa and Mauretania, and even the Grand Banks of Canada.

  44. Oh go on Allan, tell us it’s the Yiddish fleet 😄

  45. A flotilla of falafel eating finklesteins from Florida perhaps.

  46. The Jew-written Gospels are full of strange references to fishing and fishermen; in fact, those early Illuminati even adapted the fish as a secret symbol.

    According to George Bernard Shaw, the magic word “Ghoti” also spells “FISH”. (the “gh” is pronounced /f/, as in “touGH”, the “o” pronounced /i/, as in “wOmen”, the (“ti” pronounced /sh/, as in “nation”, etc.).

    This was all code for the plan 2000 years later, or did you think it was all merely a ((cohencidence))?

  47. It’s strange that the Scottish fishing industry has declined while the UK fishing industry as a whole is one of the most successful in the EU and the EU has subsidised the British fishing industry to the tune of €40 mil annually:

    https://ec.europa.eu/fisheries/sites/fisheries/files/docs/body/op-uk-summary_en.pdf

    Was Scots fishing sidelined?

    There are multiple reasons for the decline of the British fishing industry not least the London Fisheries Convention 1964, (some nine years before the UK joined the EU), which the EU pulled out of in 2017:

    ARTICLE 3
    Within the belt between six and twelve miles measured from the baseline of the teriitorial sea, the right to fish’shall be exercised only by the coastal State and by such other Contracting Parties. the fishing vessels of which have habitually fished in that belt between 1st January, 1953 and 31st December, 1962.

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/269708/Fisheries_Conv_March-April_1964.pdf

    And changes in fishing methods such as industrial trawling.

    The Common Fisheries Policy was meant to curb over fishing by limiting fleets to fishing quotas and while it gave other EU fleets access to British waters it also gave the British fleet access to 27 other EU member waters.

    If EU membership has contributed to the decline in the British fishing industry it’s a very minor contributory factor.

  48. Fishing/overfishing is a global problem. The issue goes back centuries.

    Big error to think that any of this is only due to bad, recent rules from any governmental entity.

  49. https://www.livescience.com/5445-overfishing-centuries-log-books-reveal.html

    Overfishing led to shrinking sizes of freshwater fish caught by Europeans all the way back in medieval times. And the real revolution in deep-sea fishing came not with modern day trawlers, but back in the 1600s when pairs of boats began dragging a net between them.

    Those are just a few of the facts unearthed by marine historians who want to find out when ocean life populations and natural sizes began to shrink.

    The evidence shows that much of the decline took place even before the modern fishing industry really got going.

    “The important point is not when modern technology was being used, it was mass commercialization,” said Poul Holm, an environmental historian at the University of Dublin-Trinity College in Ireland who heads the global history project for the Census of Marine Life.

    Even if the EU had never existed, you’d likely have seen the same basic problems.