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From David

By Patrick Van Roy On February 15th, 2020

184 Responses to “From David”

  1. Lady Nugee is gone from the running of the far left Labour Party.

    Good. The condescending, hypocritical, patronising, disdainful, uppity, arrogant oaf.

    The Labour Party deserve her.

  2. If these no-hoper goons are the very best Labour can drag up, then it’s the political wilderness for many, many years for the Labour Party.

    They obviously have absolutely zero interest in taking up the reins of government.

  3. Good to hear from you David

    I had not heard the one about the Labour proposal to seize people’s private property. Of course some of them would propose that. I imagine that some lefty in New York City will want to propose something like that soon.

    https://www.estateagenttoday.co.uk/breaking-news/2019/9/labour-bid-to-seize-empty-homes-and-poor-rental-properties

  4. Compulsory Purchase Orders don’t exist in the US Phantom?

  5. So two millionaires Vs two far lefties.

    One millionaire down, one left, with two dopey far left oafs still in the running.

    Goodbye Labour.

  6. Compulsory purchase most certainly does exist here, But it’s not an everyday thing

    It tends to only be used In connection with major public works projects that could never be built any other way such as Road construction, road widening, the Building of an airport etc

  7. DV –

    Yes, Nandy is the only one who appears human but she’s a lightweight. It’s a thin choice for the comrades.

    Have a good time at the fancy dress party. Going as Stavro Blofeld is an inspired choice.

  8. What some In Labour proposed here Has nothing to do with a construction project

    It has everything to do with a class warfare based seizing of property from its rightful owners

    There are all sorts of good reasons why an owner keeps an apartment or other properties empty for a time. It’s their own concern, not that of the government. This is one more indication that this Labour shower was never fit to govern a newspaper stand, much less a country

  9. I would hazard a guess that a large amount of Labour ministers own at least two, possibly three homes.

    Hypocrisy doesn’t even come close.

  10. Bernie Sanders here owns three homes.

    Very many middle-class people here own two houses.

    There’s nothing wrong with any of that. It’s good for society and for the economy. The Government can go drop dead, it’s none of their business

  11. It has everything to do with a class warfare based seizing of property from its rightful owners

    All CPOs seize property from it’s rightful owners. You seem to be in agreement with the principle when it suits you.

    And BTW, I don’t agree with it.

  12. i am on record of saying had Keir Starmer been the leader, labour would have done better
    but its always that the leader resigns after losing an election, except Corbyn ofc .

    Gov’t works better with a good opposition, that’s worth remembering
    opposition hold gov’ts to account .. rise above the personal nonsense ..

  13. Yes, a suitable reason is when you’re building a road or an airport or some other large public work which can’t be built otherwise

    That’s the only reason you should ever do it

    It It is a power that should be used sparingly, as a Last resort

  14. As I said, you seem to be in agreement with CPO’s when you’re in agreement with the reason as opposed to principle. Others think that addressing the homeless problem is sufficient reason for CPOs to be issued for empty properties.

    It’s a difference of opinion.

  15. Phantom –

    Corbyn and his cabal are hardcore Marxists. They genuinely believe that all private property is wrong.

  16. Gov’t works better with a good opposition, that’s worth remembering

    Very true Kurt.

    Unfortunately, there is no decent opposition. And by the look of it, the chances of having any decent opposition to government is pretty remote.

  17. If you want to solve the housing problem, Start by banning all immigration.

    I might imagine that many of the immigrants that you’ve allowed in over the last 10 years live in houses or flats. If you supported this immigration, British citizens like you yourself are a primary cause of the housing problem.

    And this country, very large numbers of the “homeless “ are actually bums, drinkers and druggies,
    and or are mentally ill. Any observer of the situation knows this. Housing is not their problem at all.

  18. yeah true there harri
    i reckon Starmer will see the hard-left off, the momentum bunch , hope so

  19. If you supported this immigration, British citizens like you yourself are a primary cause of the housing problem.

    I support controlled immigration based on whatever criteria is required at any particular moment. I’m also an Irish national living on the European continent so what a British Labour Party does in Britain is of no real concern to me.

    But you already knew these.

    You support CPOs justified by reasons you agree with while others support them as a means to address homelessness. It’s simply a difference of opinion as opposed to general principle.

    They genuinely believe that all private property is wrong.

    For Christ’s sake Pete. You do realise that Corbynists own houses, cars etc too, don’t you?

  20. Immigration causes no houses or flats to be built, and it reduces the supply of houses and flats for the locals

    You guys who support immigration are the problem. The guy with a second property didn’t Cause any part of it. Look at the man in the mirror. It’s his fault

  21. You guys who support immigration are the problem.

    You’re saying you don’t support immigration?

  22. I’m glad that Thornberry has failed to get on the final ballot. She will never be forgiven for her snobby and elitist “white van man” sneer in 2014. Any of the others would be better than her, but it’s looking like it will be Starmer by a mile.

    “Thornberry resigned her shadow cabinet position on 20 November 2014, shortly after polls closed in the Rochester and Strood by-election.[36][37] Earlier in the day, she had received criticism after tweeting a photograph of a house in the constituency adorned with three flags of St George[38] and the owner’s white van parked outside on the driveway, under the caption “Image from #Rochester”, provoking accusations of snobbery.[39] She was criticised by fellow Labour Party MPs, including leader Ed Miliband who said her tweet conveyed a “sense of disrespect”, Chris Bryant who said that it broke the “first rule of politics”[40] and Simon Danczuk who said that the party had been “hijacked by the north London liberal elite”.[41]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emily_Thornberry#Opposition_under_Ed_Miliband_(2010%E2%80%9315)

  23. I support some, controlled immigration

  24. The guy with a second property didn’t Cause any part of it.

    I’m against CPO’s, you’re not.

  25. I support some, controlled immigration

    That’s what I said above.

    I support controlled immigration based on whatever criteria is required at any particular moment.

    And before you start your usual loaded rubbish, I said based on whatever criteria is required at the time and as a guy sitting on a laptop in Pamplona no, I can’t get you figures and stats on that criteria.

  26. You have never for a moment been a voice against ruinous immigration

    You have endlessly mocked those who have raised concerns

    Your are part of the problem

  27. //You have endlessly mocked those who have raised concerns//

    I have mocked those like you who have tried to dishonestly missrepresent anyone who challanges you on the issue as ‘open borders guys’ and who slyly refer to ‘bad cultures’ without having the balls to actually state what they’re talking about.

    If I’m part of the problem then so are you as we essentially support the same position, controlled immigration.

  28. every country has to have a points system, something like that .

  29. You Do not support proper controls

    Way more than 10 years ago here, I spoke in favor of hard numerical caps. You have Never supported that. If you don’t support that you are not favor of controls

    How can there be controls if no one knows what the upper limit is?

    You Resort to name calling when the Grand Canyon sized hole in your argument is pointed out

  30. every country has to have a points system, something like that .

    I agree: a points-based emigration system.

    Everyone gets points on the important things like ancestry, skills, criminal record etc. If you fail to reach to the points target, out you go Abdul.

    Why this assumption that our small, packed island needs ever more immigration? We need fewer people cluttering up the place. We need mass emigration.

  31. You can’t solve your housing problem But your immigration policies are making it worse every day

    Address the cause of the problem, not the poor guy that holds a second house

    It’s all I was saying, that’s all that some could not understand

  32. Everyone gets points on the important things like ancestry, skills, criminal record etc. If you fail to reach to the points target, out you go

    lol that’s liverpool and manchester cleared then ..

  33. You Do not support proper controls

    I’ve said that I support controls under whatever the criteria may be at the time. Who are you to say that those controls are not proper?

    Way more than 10 years ago here, I spoke in favor of hard numerical caps. You have Never supported that.

    There you go with your usual, loaded rubbish that I refer to above.

    I believe that what I told you was that some guy sitting on a laptop in Pamplona doesn’t have the resources of the army of civil servants, statisticians, economists, lawyers, sociologists etc that national governments have to give such numbers?

    You Resort to name calling when the Grand Canyon sized hole in your argument is pointed out

    No Phantom, that’s you. Your snidey, sneering condescention has been pointed out here more than once.

    I agree: a points-based emigration system.

    Everyone gets points on the important things like ancestry, skills, criminal record etc. If you fail to reach to the points target, out you go Abdul

    That’s logical, fair & approriate.

  34. That’s all that some could not understand

    See my point above about snidey, sneering condescention

  35. Look

    I know that you hate the British, And that you are completely unsympathetic to any of their problems, any of their causes.

    This may even be understandable in some way. I hope that you are aware of this wild prejudice that you have

    But back to the issue that David raised before you started up with the usual thing again.

    Labour proposes to steal British people’s property in order to address a problem that they themselves largely caused.

    That’s some brass neck, besides being entirely immoral.

    And there were people who actually wanted this party in power?

  36. //I know that you hate the British//

    Even my Cockney cousins?

    More attempted missrepresentation. I do hate successive British government policy on Ireland though.

    //But back to the issue that David raised before you started up with the usual thing again//

    You started your usual bollocksing about above at 7.23.

    //I hope that you are aware of this wild prejudice that you have//

    All the allegations quoted here are, as usual, completely dishonest.

    Back on the subject, before you changed it at 7.23, You’re the one who supports CPOs.

  37. I support a lot of things when there’s a proper reason for doing them.

    That’s not the case here.

  38. As I said, it’s a difference of opinion but the principle is the same.

  39. Labour proposes to steal British people’s property in order to address a problem that they themselves largely caused.

    Very fortunately, this is just one of many, many reasons, the Labour Party will not for the foreseeable future ever progress further than the opposition benches.

  40. Everyone gets points on the important things like ancestry, skills, criminal record etc. If you fail to reach to the points target, out you go Abdul.
    Why this assumption that our small, packed island needs ever more immigration? We need fewer people cluttering up the place. We need mass emigration.

    Unfettered immigration is great if you can’t be arsed to clean your car yourself.

    I have seen “hand car wash” as low as £4

    😃

  41. And right on cue…

    Britain’s unregulated car washes face crackdown over modern slavery links
    EXCLUSIVE: Government to blitz modern slavery after some 20,000 businesses offering vehicle cleaning for as little as £6 opened in past decade

    Britain’s unregulated car washes face a government clampdown over links to modern slavery.

    Up to 20,000 businesses offering cleaning for as little as £6 have opened in the past decade, mainly in empty garage forecourts and car parks.

    Often they employ up to a dozen workers and open up to 12 hours a day.

    Critics fear many employ foreign workers on less than the minimum wage, break health and safety and labour exploitation laws, and evade tax.

    Former Downing Street advisor Matthew Taylor, interim head of the Government’s Office for Labour Market Enforcement, has called for tighter regulations of hand car washes with a new national licensing scheme.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/britains-unregulated-car-washes-face-21506445

  42. Pete Moore,

    //Corbyn and his cabal are hardcore Marxists. They genuinely believe that all private property is wrong.//

    That’s not true. Corbyn has stated himself that while he objects to excessive wealth, he does not object to private property. Corbyn and his ‘cabal’ own houses and cars themselves.

  43. kurt,

    lol that’s liverpool and manchester cleared then ..

    I’ve noticed that those who accuse others of racism the most, always tend to be the most racist themselves.

  44. Phantom,

    You guys who support immigration are the problem. The guy with a second property didn’t Cause any part of it. Look at the man in the mirror. It’s his fault

    First off the guy with the second property is partly responsible for the shortage of housing. That’s demonstrably provable. To claim otherwise otherwise is ridiculous.
    secondly you seem to have a real chip on your shoulder about certain people on here when it comes to immigration. Which is strange because most of the people on here have the same opinion on immigration to the UK as you do, which is a capped, points tested immigration system.

  45. Cheers Dave.

    I learned a long time ago that on ATW there are a few who don’t like facts getting in the way of a good rant.

  46. Dave

    Of Course Paul pipes up again

    I had been talking to Paul , Who has never once supported a capped system

    If you don’t believe me on this, ask him what the numerical cap should be,

  47. As long as David allows me to be here I’ll talk when and where I want Phantom.

    Who has never once supported a capped system

    If you don’t believe me on this, ask him what the numerical cap should be

    More of your usual smoke and mirrors, missrepresentation shite.

    As I’ve told you above, I support controlled immigration based on criteria at any given particular moment but don’t have accesses to the resources of the army of civil servants, statisticians, economists, lawyers, sociologists etc that national governments have to give such numbers of what that criteria should be.

    Now, that should be clear enough for you to stop being dishonest but I’m sure we’ll won’t have to wait long untill you come up with the same old bollocks yet again.

  48. Yes, ,Leave it up to the experts! It’s worked so great in the past

    No numerical cap again!

    You can ask Pete Moore or David what the numerical cap should be and You’ll get a straight answer right away

    Ask Paul,you get excuses as to why there is no approximate or exact number.

  49. Yes, best of course to listen to what some bloke says on the internet rather than those who have access to the information to dertermine criteria.

    Controlled immigration based on the points system that Pete suggests above:

    I agree: a points-based emigration system.

    Everyone gets points on the important things like ancestry, skills, criminal record etc. If you fail to reach to the points target, out you go Abdul

    That’s logical, fair & approriate.

    But don’t let that stop you ranting about your ‘open borders guys’ bollocks.

  50. Immigrants, at least new arrivals, tend to live in denser households and take up less space. Thus they increase productivity, taxes etc… and provide labour for the construction sector, while taking up less housing space that an indigenous person would take up. Evidence also suggests that immigrants compete for housing with other immigrants, and largely don’t compete for housing with indigenous people.

    In the last 25 years house prices have increased by 320%. Analysis by the now-defunct National Housing and Planning Advice Unit suggests that a 1% increase in the number of households raises house prices by 2% over 25 years. So the 10% growth in the total population caused by immigration could be said to increase house prices by 20% (out of a total rise of 320%). This has no analysis of what the increase in prices would be should you remove all immigrants from the construction sector – and the knock on effect on productivity in that sector. So the idea that you can solve the problem by focusing on the 20% and not the 300% is insane.

    There is also a study that showed while a 1% increase in households would increase national house prices by 2%, the same 1% increase would lower local house prices by 1.6-1.7%. So the impact is a decrease in local house prices and an increase in house prices in other parts of the UK. So increased competition between indigenous populations (with a certain amount of that caused by immigration) is the cause for increases in house prices, while immigration, in the local area, lowers house prices.

    The principle reason for the increase in house prices, and the increase in homelessness, and the strain on housing stocks, is the lack of social housing stock (due to a policy decision to stop building them), an increase in life expectancy, and an increase in single occupier households (as people are delaying marriage and cohabitation). This is then compounded by an increase in foreign capital spending (foreign hedge funds for example) buying property in the UK (especially in places like London).

  51. ot

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8009669/Did-coronavirus-originate-Chinese-government-laboratory.html

  52. Phantom,

    Are you suggesting that western governments should abolish evidence based policy making?

  53. Patrick,

    Off topic: Generally it can be assumed that when a headline poses a question then answer to that question is almost always “no”.

    Did coronavirus originate in Chinese government laboratory? – No.

  54. I share the same opinion that I believe that Pete and a number of others have

    That there should be no immigration at all from bad culture areas

    The evidence has been in for a very long time on that one

  55. What evidence would that be? Not least because “bad culture areas” is subjective and not objective, and not evidence based.

  56. Seamus, you know, bad culture areas, like New York or California.

  57. Really Seamus so the CDC, the WHO, and now a Chinese University all suspect that this is a modified bug that got out…..

    but of course you know better.

    So what are basing your view on ? Do you have any facts ? Do you have anything other than your own opinion ?

    The Chicoms have still refused to share the initial outbreak data. The genome of the virus from those examined in the US show genetic modifiers in the strain.

    Labs have accidents.

  58. Charles in Texas, on February 16th, 2020 at 2:24 PM Said: Edit Comment
    Seamus, you know, bad culture areas, like New York or California.

    🙂

  59. “So what are basing your view on ? Do you have any facts ? Do you have anything other than your own opinion ?”

    That tabloid headlines are almost always sensationalist bollocks.

    “Seamus, you know, bad culture areas, like New York or California.”

    🙂 Indeed.

  60. Charles

    If you think that the introduction of Pakistani culture into the United Kingdom has been a good thing based on the evidence I can’t help you

  61. Phantom,

    //That there should be no immigration at all from bad culture areas

    The evidence has been in for a very long time on that one//

    And who decides which areas have bad culture areas?
    Would Saudi Arabia be a bad culture area, seeing as a great number of terrorists come from that country?

  62. That there should be no immigration at all from bad culture areas

    Ah, the much beloved ‘bad cultures’ trope. You really should grow a pair of balls and say what you really mean.

    The question wasn’t whether you supported immigration from ‘bad culture areas’ but whether you thought that givernment shouldn’t base policy on research and evidence.

  63. “If you think that the introduction of Pakistani culture into the United Kingdom has been a good thing based on the evidence I can’t help you”

    Well let’s start with the obvious problem of there not being a Pakistani culture, Pakistan not being a homogenous place.

  64. Phantom, I kid, I kid.

  65. Phantom

    If you think that the introduction of Pakistani culture into the United Kingdom has been a good thing based on the evidence I can’t help you

    I agree there have been problems with uncontrolled immigration from countries like Pakistan. And that a disproportionate number in the Pakistani community engaged in disgusting acts of child abuse.
    But the fact remains that the majority of people who came to the UK from Pakistan are decent hard-working people who contribute to the UK. if you have reliable evidence to the contrary phantom, then please present it and I will change my view.

  66. It is also worth pointing out that immigration from Pakistan is not uncontrolled.

  67. That tabloid headlines are almost always sensationalist bollocks.

    So you haven’t been paying attention to the FACTS. You don’t like the paper or the news cite well then it’s just not true….. wow, ok.

    Just for the record. I don’t believe anything written in the NYTs or WaPo, but I read both. Why? Because that’s how you judge the voracity of what little facts there are for every issue.

    If a fact is in the NYTs and the only other place I get that same one fact is Wapo or Politico…. I don’t give it credence, but if that same one fact shows up in NYTs, WaPo, WSJ, and NRO…. well then it may be true.

    China has refused to give the CDC and WHO the data on the first cases, they have still refused to confirm the actual source.

    Ground zero is on the same street as the bioweapons lab, the genome has been modified.

    Those 3 facts point to an accidental exposure of a manmade virus, but I feel so much better now that the all knowing Seamus based on his “opinion” has told me it’s not…..

  68. Patrick

    I have read that citizen journalists in China covering the story have been “disappearing.”

  69. I don’t read tabloids. I’ll make no apologies for that. They are not interested in sober, analytical journalism but as I said sensationalist bollocks. If a serious paper was to examine it I would pay it credence.

    Here is one for example:

    https://www.ft.com/content/a6392ee6-4ec6-11ea-95a0-43d18ec715f5

    “Coronavirus was not genetically engineered in a Wuhan lab, says expert”

  70. The Chinese communists tend to be secretive

    But their secrecy here is especially worrying

    It could well be that they are hiding things because they’re ashamed That this virus started in China, and that they were so completely inept in dealing with it in the early stages

    But it could also be something else

    I wouldn’t take anything that they say at face value

  71. It is extremely unwise not to look at what the tabloids are saying

    There will be times when the tabloids write on sensitive topics that other papers won’t touch

    The New York Times reporters Look at what is in the Wall Street Journal and the Washington post, but they absolutely look at what’s in the New York post as well , esp on local matters

    At one point, the New York Times would not touch the story of Catholic priests who molested children. That story was blasted open, locally And nationally, by the New York post.

    https://nypost.com/2018/09/13/this-nyc-priests-dramatic-downfall-was-just-the-beginning-of-perv-priest-scandals/

  72. I think their secrecy in this case is to attempt to prevent internal dissent over their handling of the crisis, rather than keeping the west in the dark. They were slow to respond to the crisis and it spiralled out of their control. And so a fair amount of their effort in recent weeks as not been even controlling the outbreak but controlling how it is reported. So instead of an honest conversation about how things went wrong (which will point a fair amount of blame at the Chinese authorities) there are videos of hospitals being built in less than a week.

  73. The problem with the tabloids is they don’t care if they are right or not. A broken clock is right twice a day. That is very much the situation with tabloids. On serious issues they get the situation wrong far more often than they get it right.

  74. I would tend to think that that is correct

    The local government should be condemned for allowing that idiotic wild animal food market to reopen

    It had been closed after the SARS virus and then they let it re-open after a time

  75. On many local New York State and New York City matters The New York post is better than The NY Times

  76. Exceptionally good local reporting on issues that most local media tend to avoid

    https://nypost.com/2019/10/18/the-lirrs-culture-of-fraud/

    https://nypost.com/2018/02/25/new-yorks-ticking-pension-bomb/

  77. phantom lemme chip in
    this “bad culture” concept is a joke, its a falsehood, means nothing, in fact its stupid
    as seamus and paul point out its subjective, not evidence based.
    you seem desperate for a figure, a number, but its won’t satisfy you , you’ll be attacking.
    Basically ya just wanna attack, producing heat not light .
    I’,m sorry you’re terrified of the asians, because i’m not
    in my neighbour we have a great mix of asians, who mostly sell great food or are shopkeepers. the cultural enrichment extends mostly to food, but we do chat about life.
    you’re a fearful man and its a fault , immigration numbers won’t solve your problem
    advice: take a holiday . Delhi-Srinigar, Dal Lakes , have a nose around, you’ll be amazed when you realise : OMG they’re just people like me .. shock horror, have same problems
    no more dishonesty , face your phobias dude, not hide behind them and attack good people
    shame !

    Dave my comment was tongue -in-cheek u shud know better
    wonder what is the highest crime ” bad culture ” areas of UK . them need going back
    where I dunno , Oldham , Hudderfield ..lol

  78. What you also fail to grasp….. If and I say if because no one knows one way or another except the chicoms 3 labs from different countries have all noted “anomalies” in the viruses genome….. so if it was man made then it can be stopped in it’s tracks or at the very least made less lethal. The Spanish flu killed 50 million it had a 10% kill rate Corona has just hit a 10% kill rate.

    If it was enhanced, changed, spliced, modified in any way then a vaccine can be made. All we need is the formula they used to make the change.

    The fact that the Chicoms refuse to share the ground zero data, and it’s proximity to a bioweapons lab combined with the independent lab analysis it is very viable that there was an accident.

    Would the Chicoms coverup an accident ?

    That is the only question combined with the circumstantial evidence you need to feel concerned about.

    Being a little paranoid and little untrusting is sometimes the prudent path.

  79. Don’t say “Asians “ when you mean “ Pakistani Muslims “

    Pakistani muslims are a small subset of Asians

    Have you never heard of Hindus, Chinese, Japanese, Vietnamese?

    Expand your horizons

  80. Phantom your second link is exactly what I was talking about with the police, fire, and teacher pensions in Pa.

  81. if you say asian to any american they immediately visualize a chinese or japanese person. What you call asians we call Arabs or Middle Easterners.

    one people separated by a common language

  82. Yep

    The Pension bomb will hit, It is rather amazing that it has not hit yet

    In many states these patients are severely underfunded, Based on fake numbers

  83. These pensions

  84. I think it’s every state and it’s a damn third rail that no ones gonna touch

  85. https://fee.org/articles/the-5-states-with-the-most-underfunded-public-employee-pensions/

    NJ not good on this

  86. NY, PA, NJ are all screwed and are all run by people afraid to discuss it let alone touch it.

  87. “ Asian “ in the UK has become a protective and imprecise euphemism

    They just don’t want to use the word Muslim

  88. ever met any pakistanis? who by definition are muslims, a fact you really should know
    oh wise one .. your rush to judgement is as hideous as Harris
    anyway congrats on making up the quartet allan,petem,harri, phantom .. who would have thunk it
    https://blogs.tribune.com.pk/story/25170/10-things-you-probably-didnt-know-about-pakistan/

    great cricketers

    Naseem Shah, 16, becomes youngest bowler to take Test hat-trick

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/51435300

    bad cultures eh?.. you’re a fear-mongering idiot

  89. You see it is racist but honest….. the word muslim brings an immediate specific ethnic group to mind.

    It has been self banned by just about all western media organizations….. don’t want to excite or incite the rabble….

  90. There are Hindus and Christians in Pakistan, but they are severely persecuted

  91. “ Asian “ in the UK has become a protective and imprecise euphemism

    No, I’m afraid that this difference in vocabulary is as relevant as ‘elevator’ is to ‘lift’. The adjective ‘Aisian’ has long existed in Britain before it being taken in the US to almost exclusively refer to those from south-east / east Asia/ the Orient, probably as a result of the US being involved in so much warfare in the region:

    https://www.bl.uk/asians-in-britain

    In Britain, the word “Asian” most frequently refers to people of South Asian ancestry (Pakistanis, Indians, Bangladeshis and Sri Lankans), and has been used less commonly to describe people of West Asian (Iranians[6][7] and Yemenis[2]), East Asian (Chinese[3] and Hongkongers[8]) and Southeast Asian (Burmese[9] and Filipinos[10]) ancestry. This usage contrasts to that in the United States, where it is used primarily to refer to people of East Asian origin.[11][12] The British Sociological Association’s guidelines on equality and diversity suggest that “South Asian” is more precise than “Asian”, and that the latter should not be used where there is a risk of it conflating South Asians with people from elsewhere in Asia.[12]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Asian#Terminology

    Besides, as someone who frequently uses the ‘bad cultures’ euphemism to mask what he truly means it seems like you’re attempting a bit of projection.

  92. Dave my comment was tongue -in-cheek u shud know better

    it’s a tongue-in-cheek comment that you make far to often Kurt.

  93. Patrick Van Roy,

    The Spanish flu killed 50 million it had a 10% kill rate Corona has just hit a 10% kill rate.

    I was just reading the kill rate for the coronavirus had gone down.
    where did you get the information from the coronavirus adjusted to 10% kill rate?

  94. probably as a result of the US being involved in so much warfare in the region

    yes the evil warmongering americans…….

  95. And here we come to the point. To call a street gang “Asian” is deliberately misleading. Recent paedophilia cases in the UK have not involved Chinese. Or Japanese. With exceptions – Stuart Hall and Jeremy Forrest, for instance – most recent cases have indeed involved Muslims. Why else did 500 Muslim imams across the UK – immediately after the Oxford court hearings – deliver sermons on the evils of child grooming and rape? Protestant and Catholic clergymen – most speaking to empty churches, it’s true – did not feel the need to address this crime. It was not thought necessary, so far as I know, to speak about this scourge in British synagogues.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/we-british-go-out-of-our-way-to-avoid-using-the-word-muslim-8693702.html

  96. Phantom,

    Don’t say “Asians “ when you mean “ Pakistani Muslims “

    phantom I’ve taken the trouble in the time to point out you on numerous occasions before the term Asian in the UK is very different to the US.
    No one is being underhanded using this term, and it’s very disrespect of you to insinuate otherwise. As someone whose opinion I may not always agree with, but do respect on here please stop doing this.
    Paul has provided links once again to back up the point we are making here.

  97. So Bob Fisk says that use of the word ‘Asian’ is incorrect when identifying those from southern Asia, so what?

    It’s an accepted term in colloquial British English which has existed long before grooming gangs, terrorist incidents and US misuse of it and now because of this some want to invent some newspeak?

  98. Hong Kong and Chinese researchers published the latest research on “New Coronavirus 2019” (referred to as “Wuhan pneumonia”) in the medical journal “Lancet” on the 24th. Chinese experts pointed directly to the disease. The [fatality] rate is fifteen percent. Hong Kong experts confirmed for the first time that Wuhan pneumonia can be transmitted from person to person, and patients may not have surface symptoms. Taking a Shenzhen seven-person home with six people as an example, the analysis shows that the attack rate is as high as 83% and the incubation period is three to six days It is expected that a large number of cases will break out in China within a week, and the next two weeks will be a crucial period to prevent any place from becoming “another Wuhan”.

  99. I am very well aware of the history of the term

    But I think that Mr. Fisk is entirely correct here

    Words matter

  100. Incidentally, you raised exactly the same point a few days ago on another thread when you were talking about something similar, (surprise, surprise).

    If you look back over the comments you’ll see that I prefixed my ‘Asian’ comments with the adjective ‘southern’ as per my personal perference to make the distaiction.

  101. Patrick Van Roy,

    Hong Kong and Chinese researchers published the latest research on “New Coronavirus 2019” (referred to as “Wuhan pneumonia”) in the medical journal “Lancet” on the 24th. Chinese experts pointed directly to the disease. The [fatality] rate is fifteen percent.

    Could you link to the article this is from Patrick cheers.

  102. Words matter

    Then grow a pair of balls and stop using ‘bad cultures’ to mask what you really mean.

    The colloquialism ‘British Asian’ was in common use before Pakistan as we know it was created in 1947 and before Bob Fisk became a journalist.

  103. Seamus, on February 16th, 2020 at 2:47 PM Said:
    It is also worth pointing out that immigration from Pakistan is not uncontrolled.

    Their inbreeding is.

  104. Phantom,

    I am very well aware of the history of the term

    Let’s stop making out that there’s is some sort of sinister reason behind using the term then Phantom. This has been used in the UK for the last 80 years to my knowledge.
    You sound like Allan when you come out with nonsense like this.
    And I personally have no problem with the child abusers being called Pakistani Muslims if that’s what they are.

  105. And I personally have no problem with the child abusers being called Pakistani Muslims if that’s what they are.

    You might not have a problem with it Dave.

    But the authorities, councils, The BBC, and Social Services, had a big problem with it.

  106. You have to ask the question?

    What have those authorities, the Police, the BBC, the Councils, and Social Services, all got in common?

    What’s the driver behind it all?

  107. Here we go again, Common Purpose …. yawn

  108. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30183-5/fulltext

  109. //yes the evil warmongering americans…….//

    And here we come to the point. To call the people of the United States “American” is deliberately misleading. Recent invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan have not involved Chileaneans. Or Peruvians. With exceptions – Saudi Arabia and Israel, for instance – most recent invasions have indeed involved the army of the United States. Why else did so many journalists across the United States – immediately before the Iraq invasion – deliver sermons on the evils of starting unnecessary wars? Brazilian and Argentinian journalists did not feel the need to address this crime. It was not thought necessary, so far as I know, to speak about this scourge in Mexico.

  110. THE CRIME……

    No it would be a crime if we just killed you all and let God sort it out.

    The Radical Islamist “Asians” kicked the hornets nest Noel…. we didn’t invade anyone we declared War on Terrorism and State Sponsors of Terror. And we acted.

  111. Yes the evil warmongering americans…….

    If the cap fits Pat? When was the last time the US wasn’t at war?

    https://www.warhistoryonline.com/instant-articles/usa-only-17-years-of-peace.html

    However, this isn’t all about you.

    Wel said Noel. I ofen get reminded here when I refer to nationals of the US as ‘Americans’ that the Americas doesn’t consist of one nationality.

  112. only one that counts

  113. The word American has some overlapping meanings. It seems relatively harmless to use it differently at different times. If Europeans are upset by it perhaps they should recall they made it up themselves, as it comes from explorer America Vespucci.

  114. Americo.

  115. there’s good and bad in all cultures, only fools idiots and racists pretend otherwise.
    demonising of whole races cultures and creeds is what we teach our kids not to do
    shame on those who skirt with this poison

    simple piece of logic
    not all white people are gammons
    not all pakistani are perverts/terroroists

    How thick have we become that with all our internets and links
    we don’t understand very simple things

    think i agree with Ghandi when he said
    all the devils in the world are to be found in the human heart !

    Nite, nite

  116. There would be few Canadians who would call themselves Americans.

    Every Chinese, Korean, Japanese and Vietnamese would see themselves as Asians.

  117. Patrick Van Roy,

    Thanks for the link Patrick I’ll have a look at that later.

    The Radical Islamist “Asians” kicked the hornets nest Noel…. we didn’t invade anyone we declared War on Terrorism and State Sponsors of Terror. And we acted.

    They weren’t Asians Patrick they were Arabs. and just to let you know you’ve got the wrong Arabs, you should have bombed Saudi Arabia, not Iraq. That’s where the terrorists were from.

  118. Kurt.

    Nice post. I agree.

    Do bear in mind that Gandhi was racist s***.

  119. //Every Chinese, Korean, Japanese and Vietnamese would see themselves as Asians//

    I’d imagine they would see themselves as their respective nationality first and their continental origin second.

    Racism, badness and goodness exists in every race and creed on the planet.

  120. The 9/11 hijackers were mainly Saudi’s

    Saudi Arabia technically is very much in Asia

    “ Asia “ is so huge and diverse that the term almost doesn’t mean anything.

    The world culturally influenced by China Would be the largest part of Asia, And would be the part of Asia that is increasingly educated and successful

    The Indian subcontinent is another Asia, Incredibly massive in its own right

    The world dominated by Egypt and Saudi Arabia Is split between Africa and Asia

  121. The Asians / Asian Americans That I know – and I do know quite a few – are happy to be called Asian. They claim it.

    Probably on every major campus there is an Asian student association

    The very out of date term oriental was once used, now Asian would be used to describe that world

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/after-50-years-asian-american-advocates-say-term-more-essential-n875601

    https://thebridge.cmu.edu/organization/asa

  122. As are British Asians:

    https://www.britishasiantrust.org/about/our-story/

  123. I’m all for bombing Saudi Arabia and have been since day one……

    How many here in the US Phantom do you that are Iranian, Jordanian, Turkish, Indian etc do you know that would call themselves asian ?

    I’ve known many from the Middle East and never met one who called himself Asian.

  124. //I’m all for bombing Saudi Arabia and have been since day one……//

    Successive governments of your country however have not which make the ‘War on Terror’ a sham.

  125. People tend to utilize different phrases to describe themselves and would stare at you with disbelief if you called them a common labe. Example – Yanks. Europeans here often refer to us as The Yanks. But Charles in Texas would not likely call himself one as that name is associated with the North in the Civil War. And I know it more as referring to New England erstwhile as Yankees,

  126. New Enlanders as Yankees. But Yankees also describes New York’s baseball team.

  127. Patrick 718

    Yes I would agree

    Turks seem to think that they are European

    And I think that Jordanians for example would see themselves as Arabs or simply as Jordanian

    Iranians are very proud of their nation and would I believe call themselves Iranian or Persian

    I only know one Iranian American. She is Jewish, And is pretty wonderful.

  128. all that I have known have been nice hardworking and proud, but not one of any of those groups would call themselves asian.

  129. Turks seem to think that they are European

    I know some Turks and I don’t think that that’s the case at all.

  130. Dave
    pls explain how Ghandi was rascist scum, u in clown mode
    p.s i read midnights children, salman rushdie, did you ?

  131. Ghandi had a particular disdain for Africans.

    It’s rather well documented.

    Anyway, India is possibly the most racist country on the planet with its caste system..

  132. that’s not rascist dumbell , and predates ghandi goes back millennia
    Ghandi trained in South Africa as a lawyer ..
    try again ..

  133. It’s rather well documented.

    links pls

  134. No need for the name calling Kurt, uncalled for.

    Kurt.

    Racial segregation

    In 1893, Gandhi wrote to the Natal parliament saying that a “general belief seems to prevail in the Colony that the Indians are a little better, if at all, than savages or the Natives of Africa”.

    In 1904, he wrote to a health officer in Johannesburg that the council “must withdraw Kaffirs” from an unsanitary slum called the “Coolie Location” where a large number of Africans lived alongside Indians. “About the mixing of the Kaffirs with the Indians, I must confess I feel most strongly.”

    The same year he wrote that unlike the African, the Indian had no “war-dances, nor does he drink Kaffir beer”. When Durban was hit by a plague in 1905, Gandhi wrote that the problem would persist as long as Indians and Africans were being “herded together indiscriminately at the hospital”.

    This, in itself, say historians, is not entirely new and revelatory. Also, some South Africans have always accused the man who led India to independence of working with the British colonial government to promote racial segregation. In April, a man was arrested in connection with vandalising a statue of Gandhi. A hashtag #Ghandimustfall (sic) has gained circulation on social media.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-34265882

    Manchester should reject a statue of Indian leader Mahatma Gandhi because of his “well-documented anti-black racism”, student activists have said.

    The 9ft (2.75m) statue has been given to the city council to celebrate the 150th anniversary of Gandhi’s birth.

    In an open letter, the students demanded the council acknowledges his “vile comments” and issues an apology

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-manchester-50062791

    Kurt.

    Would you agree or disagree regarding India with its caste system is possibly the most racist country on earth?

  135. Kurt..

    The authors show that Gandhi never missed an opportunity to show his loyalty to Empire, with a particular penchant for war as a means to do so. He served as an Empire stretcher-bearer in the Boer War while the British occupied South Africa, he demanded guns in the aftermath of the Bhambatha Rebellion, and he toured the villages of India during the First World War as recruiter for the Imperial army. This meticulously researched book punctures the dominant narrative of Gandhi and uncovers an ambiguous figure whose time on African soil was marked by a desire to seek the integration of Indians, minus many basic rights, into the white body politic while simultaneously excluding Africans from his moral compass and political ideals

    https://www.sup.org/books/title/?id=26014

  136. Prof Meena Dhanda from the University of Wolverhampton said it was unsurprising that “the more people have begun reading Gandhi rather than merely idolising him, the more they are finding out about his racism”.

    She added: “As scholars have shown, he was terrified of intermixing, he upheld caste rules that restricted marriage outside one’s caste. He stereotyped people, for instance, he wrote – ‘Mussalman as a rule is a bully and a Hindu a coward’ and ‘Kaffirs are as a rule uncivilised’.

    “Despite his political actions harnessing the force of ‘non-violence’, his underlying metaphysical views were deeply at odds with modern sensibilities. To use him as an apostle of peace whilst ignoring the very beliefs that cause ruptures within modern diverse communities is ill-advised.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/oct/17/manchester-council-urged-reject-mahatma-gandhi-statue-racism

  137. lol Harri, good to see you linking to “woke” students revising history
    well i never.
    The other links go back to 1893, meaningless given what his did in his later life.

    No i wouldn’t agree with your assertion, india is most racist
    its meaningless when the caste system refers to its own people.

    also what is enshrined in india is simply practised the world over
    ofc i find it at odds with the modern world, some people do useful work to eradicate its effects and i applaud them .

    But generally as a riposte your 3 comments are all over the place
    My comment was something Ghandi said about the devils being in your own heart
    nothing you’ve linked to displaces that .

    so am afraid you’re flogging a dead horse

    ofc walt Disney apparently wasn’t too keen on the jews
    shall we all boycott snowhite, bit snowflaky non?

    i withdraw the dumbell comment
    i doubt it will stop you insulting liberals at every opportunity though eh

  138. than savages or the Natives of Africa

    do continue to call allan and petem out whenever they use this phrase

  139. Patrick Van Roy,

    https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30183-5/fulltext

    unless I missed it this Lancet article does not state that the coronavirus has an infection rate of 15%.
    where did you get the information from at the coronavirus now has an infection rate of 15% Patrick?

  140. do continue to call allan and petem out whenever they use this phrase

    Why?

    We are all racists…apparently?

  141. kurt,

    Dave
    pls explain how Ghandi was rascist scum, u in clown mode

    Kurt it’s well documented Gandhi’s attitudes towards Africans was racist.
    Try doing a bit more research mate and a bit less reactionary insulting people.

    https://www.npr.org/2019/10/02/766083651/gandhi-is-deeply-revered-but-his-attitudes-on-race-and-sex-are-under-scrutiny
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gandhi:_Behind_the_Mask_of_Divinity

  142. Harri.

    Anyway, India is possibly the most racist country on the planet with its caste system..

    Well said Harri. I spent a lot of time working with Indians and in India. I found the caste system to be absolutely appalling. I found the appalling treatment of those deemed to be a lower caste absolutely deplorable.

  143. ffs have some respect , he achieved independence for india without a shot being fired
    you guys are clueless as to bigger picture, and just want to whine about his attitude
    50 years before he achieved his and india’s dream ..

  144. the caste system predates Ghani by some 5000 years, get a grip fellas
    mixing it all up into a big pot of stew is fraudulent
    just whining , no actual separation or attempt to lay out the past and parts
    and how they fit together .. waste of my time ..
    nit-pickers ..

  145. no shots fired with britain, but much intercommunal violence and catastrophic population transfers, and a religion based partition

    it did not go well at all, even gandhi said so

  146. Kurt.

    I never said that Gandhi didn’t achieve great things, he did. (Although I believe his achievements are overstated). But like mother Teresa, he also had a lot of skeletons in the closet and did many questionable things.
    But the point is you claimed that he wasn’t racist, and Harri I have actually proved that he was. And rather than accepting that you were wrong, you just decided to act like a child and throw your toys out of the pram.

  147. kurt,

    the caste system predates Ghani by some 5000 years, get a grip fellas

    I never said the caste system has anything to do with Gandhi.
    Kurt Try actually reading what people write, rather than jumping to this reactionary response you seem to do all the time. It makes you look very foolish.

  148. excitable boy

  149. Kurt,

    your mates are judging people of the past with our attitudes of the present. Ghandi, for his time. had attitudes no different than Churchill. Rhodes, W, Wilson. etc.

  150. Kurt,

    your mates are judging people of the past with our attitudes of the present. Ghandi, for his time. had attitudes no different than Churchill. Rhodes, W, Wilson. etc.

  151. Precisely Charles

  152. thats correct

    but its not unfair to point out the attitudes of that time

  153. Charles in Texas,

    //your mates are judging people of the past with our attitudes of the present. Ghandi, for his time. had attitudes no different than Churchill. Rhodes, W, Wilson. etc.//

    Which has absolutely nothing to do with the point I’m making Charles.
    The Aztecs lopped people’s heads off in human sacrifice.
    Just because that was acceptable to some in their society didn’t make it right. It was still murder.

  154. What is your point?

  155. That Gandhi was racist.

  156. He certainly said and wrote things that would be considered racist and intemperate now, even if it was primarily early in his life. He probably wouldn’t get a high rating from the me too ladies either.

  157. I’m not anti Gandhi. He did and said questionable things but he also did and said great things. I can still admit somebody has shortcomings even if they are a hero of mine. But Kurt it seems is not mature or honest enough to do that

  158. Dave Alton, on February 17th, 2020 at 3:16 PM Said:

    I’m not anti Gandhi. He did and said questionable things but he also did and said great things. I can still admit somebody has shortcomings even if they are a hero of mine. But Kurt it seems is not mature or honest enough to do that

    To be fair to Kurt, if Ghandi was a white dude, he would hold him in utter contempt.

  159. the caste system predates Ghani by some 5000 years, get a grip fellas

    The caste system in a India today hasn’t changed a great deal.

  160. But the point is you claimed that he wasn’t racist, and Harri I have actually proved that he was. And rather than accepting that you were wrong, you just decided to act like a child and throw your toys out of the pram.

    But Dave.

    Ghandi was brown skinned, he can getaway with most things.

    Virtue signalling points are the staple diet for some.

  161. Sure I can Dave . Just don’t need to go there with the revisionary zeal that some love too much . And no he is not a rascist even though he said some questionable things
    A rascist is someone who either acts on those beliefs or feels the constant need to provoke .
    Like petem and Allan not Ghandi.

  162. A rascist is someone who either acts on those beliefs or feels the constant need to provoke .

    Does Gammons ring any bells?

  163. Ouch

  164. I’d say it is more accurate to say Ghandi’s attitudes included ones we might identify as racist, but it certainly was his driving force or legacy.

  165. kurt,

    Sure I can Dave . Just don’t need to go there with the revisionary zeal that some love too much . And no he is not a rascist even though he said some questionable things

    So somebody who repeatedly claims many times that certain dark-skinned people are dirty, lazy and live like animals, and that Indians and African shouldn’t mix, and white people should be in charge in South Africa. is not a racist.

    Wow! That’s an amazing set of standards you’ve got Kurt. Double standards.

  166. Yeah I’ll go with that mahons
    Just you left Dave to carry on

  167. kurt,

    Just you left Dave to carry on

    Carry on what Kurt, I’m finished.
    I’ve shown you to be a dishonest, lying, sack of s***.
    There’s nothing else to say.

  168. pathetic dave
    you screwed up m8

  169. your attack completely failed, its much more nuanced than that, his legacy and so forth
    back to being a bitch then from you, making nasty comments
    toys out of pram u whiny scouser – u proved that tonite ..
    hilarious ..
    you lot up there are a special kinda stoopid , mancs liverpuddlians
    the scum of the UK .. lol

  170. you lot up there are a special kinda stoopid , mancs liverpuddlians
    the scum of the UK .. lol

    Liverpudlians are some of the most friendliest and warm-hearted people i have ever had the pleasure of working and socializing with. in Ellesmere Port, On The Wirral, they are particularity friendly, people there go out of their way to say good morning with a smile. I just don’t get the football thing which is treated as a religion? (Birmingham is the same) ..in some parts.

    I have only stayed in hotels in Manchester, never worked or socialized with anyone from Manchester, but going by the warm welcome at hotels, they too are as just as pleasant.

  171. //Liverpudlians are some of the most friendliest and warm-hearted people i have ever had the pleasure of working and socializing with. in Ellesmere Port, On The Wirral, they are particularity friendly, people there go out of their way to say good morning with a smile.//

    They’re half Irish, Harri, how could they be otherwise? 🙂

  172. nah you’re right Harri
    when i went up to liverpool had a great time, they go the extra mile

    there is this thought though noel
    liverpuddlians are called the “fuck-off” irish
    the reason being, that if you’re irish and have to emigrate you’re expected to go further afield, as the irish do, to say Boston, san francisco, africa
    the feckless, lazy , low gene pool make it as far as liverpool
    and spend their time whining about everything like hillsborough
    so kinda sticks that- that’s the dave alton type, chips on their shoulders

  173. //and spend their time whining about everything like hillsborough
    so kinda sticks that- that’s the dave alton type, chips on their shoulders//

    Oh, come off it, Kurt. I don’t know Dave, but from what I read here (and I don’t always agree with him), he’s a very balanced, thoughtful but laid-back guy. One of the few, in fact.

    You can’t categorise him as this or that. Dave – like the rest of us – is himself.

  174. //and spend their time whining about everything like hillsborough
    so kinda sticks that- that’s the dave alton type, chips on their shoulders//

    96 people died, including children as young as 10.

    I wouldn’t call it ‘whining’… more like grieving.

    They’re half Irish, Harri, how could they be otherwise? 🙂

    I have never for one second thought about where the scouse dialect originated from.

    Why do Scousers sound Irish?
    The melting pot created by the influx of people from far and wide was the foundation of the distinctive Scouse sound. The major influence comes from the influx of Irish and Welsh into the city. … But Scouse also reaches far and wide, down into parts of Cheshire and as far out as North Wales.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/liverpool/content/articles/2005/01/11/voices_liverpoolaccent_feature.shtml

  175. the feckless, lazy , low gene pool make it as far as liverpool
    and spend their time whining about everything like hillsborough
    so kinda sticks that- that’s the dave alton type, chips on their shoulders

    Dave is a skilled carpenter and computer whizz.

    Not exactly what I would class as a ‘low gene pool’- feckless or lazy?

  176. Kurt

    you lot up there are a special kinda stoopid , mancs liverpuddlians
    the scum of the UK .. lol

    the feckless, lazy , low gene pool make it as far as liverpool
    and spend their time whining about everything like hillsborough

    It didn’t take long for the real Kurt to show his face.
    What a nasty man you really are a Kurt.

  177. Cheers for the support Harri and Noel.
    I genuinely appreciate that.

  178. Kurt

    That was hard to read

    I do not understand that type of attack, especially one made against one of the good guys here

    Which is quasi racial to boot

    You may wish to retract it, completely

  179. This thread has become seriously toxic.

    Dave Alton’s a decent, fair minded guy and Liverpudlians are in my experience some of the warmest, friendliest people I’ve ever met. Mind you, lying sack of shit is a bit over the top too.

    Comments should be repudiated and tempers cooled. It’s only a blog FFS.

  180. Paul.

    Mind you, lying sack of shit is a bit over the top too.

    I agree Paul, but it’s no worse than what Kurt has said to others in many of his posts. Have a look at is insults to others in Pete Moore’s post about the surfer for instance. I had a feeling that little push would bring the real kurt to the surface and I was right. He needed calling out.
    And by the way, this is not the first time he’s made nasty comments about northerners, especially Liverpudlians and Mancunians.

  181. To be fair to Kurt, he doesn’t like liberals very much either..

    kurt, on February 17th, 2020 at 9:10 AM Said:

    i withdraw the dumbell comment
    i doubt it will stop you insulting liberals at every opportunity though eh

    kurt, on February 10th, 2020 at 12:04 AM Said:

    I’m rapidly going off liberals and their bull

  182. Let’s calm it down .
    With me it’s better out than in.
    I prefer that way . Phantom with you mate you keep it all in and it poisons you .
    Never back down never admit you’re wrong in 15 years and never apologise.
    Fuk that
    Dave sorry it got degraded onto personals.
    We agree on many things. This thread was a one off . I had a great time in Liverpool great bunch and friendly to visitors.

    Hi Harri nice to see you to see you nice
    Paul mahons Noel thanks for your diplomacy

  183. well that’s very passive aggressive!

    Glad that Liverpudlians are back in the good graces!

  184. phantom you don’t get to preach to me or diagnose me when you sit on all your shit
    till it stink your pants out .
    don’t come the smart ass with me lad
    good day ..